IN ADDITION TO HER WORK WITH ABC NEWS HER CREDITS INCLUDE COVERING THE WHITE HOUSE FOR NBC AND CNN.

KATTY KAY ANCHORS THE BBC WORLD NEWS AMERICA FROM WASHINGTON D.C.

THEY JOIN ME TO TALK ABOUT THEIR NEW BOOK "THE CONFIDENCE CODE FOR GIRLS."

WELCOME.

FIRST, TO WRITE A BOOK BETWEEN EVERYTHING YOU ARE DOING AND ALL THE CHILDREN YOU ARE RAISING.

>> BUSY TIME AT THE MOMENT IN WASHINGTON.

IN SOME WAYS HAVING THIS PROJECT AND THE POLITICS THAT I SPEND MY DAYS COVERING IS NICE.

IT IS A GREAT BREAK AND IT'S SO INSPIRING WE HOPE IT WILL BENEFIT GIRLS.

I HAVE TWO GIRLS I HAVE TWO BOYS AND TWO GIRLS I CAN SEE DIRECTLY THE IMPACT THIS WORK CAN HAVE FOR THEM.

>> AND YOU BOTH HAVE DAUGHTERS?

>> WE BOTH HAVE 12-YEAR-OLDS KATTY HAS AN OLDER DAUGHTER AS WELL.

>> DID YOU RAISE YOUR DAUGHTER THE SAME WITH THE TIPS THAT YOU GIVE IN THE BOOK?

DID YOU USE THAT?

>> ONCE YOU LEARNED THEM, I MEAN THE FIRST 10 YEARS OF HER LIFE I RUINED.

BUT NOW, WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

BUT REALLY I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT IT IS AND THIS IS THE CENTERPIECE OF OUR BOOK, TO ENCOURAGE GIRLS TO TAKE RISKS AND TO FAIL.

AND THAT IT IS A PARENT'S JOB THE BEST WE CAN DO TO HELP THEM BUILD CONFIDENCE AND STAND BACK AND LET THAT PROCESS HAPPEN.

INSTEAD OF RUNNING AROUND AND TRYING TO MANAGE EMOTIONS AND FIX PROBLEMS, YOU CAN LIKE SUFFER THROUGH THE WATCHING THEM STRUGGLE AND KNOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE BETTER OFF.

>> AND HOW ABOUT YOU?

>> I HAVE TWO GIRLS WHO ARE VERY DIFFERENT IN PERSONALITY BUT IT IS TRUE MY OLDEST CHILD WHO IS 21, I THINK IS A YOUNGER CHILD HAD A TENDENCY TO CORDS PERFECTIONISM.

TOWARDS TRYING TO BE A PEOPLE PLEASER A LOT OF WHAT WE SPEAK ABOUT IN OUR BOOK.

AND I THINK I WAS ENCOURAGED THAT I WAS A STRESSED OUT WORKING MOM WITH FOUR DAYS AND MAYA WOULD MAKE THE TABLE AND ORGANIZE THE HOUSEHOLD.

AND I WOULD SAY, MAYA IS SUCH A GOOD GIRL AND SHE TOOK AWAY FROM THAT IF SHE BEHAVED IN THAT WAY THAT WAS PERFECT AND PEOPLE PLEASING AND REALLY GOOD, SHE GOT PRAISE.

AND EVERY CHILD WANTS PRAISE.

I THINK I SET IN MOTION A CYCLE OF BEHAVIOR THAT SHE HAD A NATURAL TENDENCY TOWARDS AND I EXACERBATED.

SHE IS GREAT AND SHE CONTRIBUTED SOMETHING TO THE BOOK FOR US ON THIS ISSUE OF RESPONSIBILITY AND -- >> SHE SAID -- FEEL SHE COULD SAY LOOK THIS IS TOO MUCH.

AND HER MESSAGE TO YOUNGER GIRLS TODAY IS YOU CAN SAY THAT IS ENOUGH.

YOU CAN ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF.

THAT IS THE WAY SHE HAS ADVOCATED.

BUT I THINK THE OVER ARCHING MESSAGE IS YOU CAN SPEAK UP AND ROCKING THE BOAT IS OK. >> AND SPEAK UP ANYWAY.

I MEAN TRYING TO GET MY SON TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE.

NATURALLY ARE ABLE TO JUST SAY WHAT?

ME?

>> RIGHT.

>> I DON'T NEED TO DO THAT AND OTHER PEOPLE STEP IN AND FILL THE VOID.

>> BUT DID YOU TEST YOUR CHILDREN THAT WAY?

DID YOU ASK YOUR BOYS TO DO WHAT YOU ASKED YOUR DAUGHTER TO DO?

>> OF COURSE.

>> AND DID THEY DO IT?

>> THE SITUATION WAS IF YOU COME HOME FROM WORK AND TIRED AND YOU HAVE ALL THE KIDS AND A LONG DAY AT THE OFFICE AND I SAY TO MY SONS CAN YOU LAY THE TABLE.

I'VE GOT X, Y AND Z, I DID IT LAST WEEK.

AND THEY MAKE IT SO MUCH HARDER.

SO THE DEFAULT AND WE SEE THIS IN CLASSROOMS, TOO, THE DEFAULT IS TO GO TO THE CHILD THAT MAKES IT EASY.

AND BECAUSE YOU HAVE A GIRL THEN WHO IS WANTING TO BE PEOPLE PLEASE AND LIKES THE IDEA OF BEING A PERFECTLY GOOD GIRL AND WE SEE TEACHERS DOING THIS, TOO.

I SYMPATHIZE IF YOU ARE A TEACHER AND HAVE 24 KIDS IN YOUR CLASSROOM AND HALF ARE MISBEHAVING AND HALF ARE BEHAVING PERFECTLY THE TENDENCY IS TO REWARD THAT PERFECT BEHAVIOR.

YOU ARE TRYING TO RUN A CLASSROOM.

OF COURSE IT'S NICE TO HAVE GIRLS ONLY SPEAK WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN ASKED A QUESTION OR RAISE THEIR HAND WHEN THEY KNOW THE ANSWER.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS WE ARE SETTING IN MOTION A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR THAT DOES NOT HELP OUR GIRLS ONCE THEY GET INTO THE PROFESSIONAL SPHERE.

>> RIGHT.

BUT I THOUGHT THAT PART OF RAISING GIRLS WAS WITH CONFIDENCE IS MAKING BOYS DO THE THINGS EVERYBODY DOES CHORES EQUALLY.

SO AS A SUCCESSFUL JOURNALIST, AS A WOMAN IN THE FOREFRONT OF BEING A SUCCESSFUL FEMALE JOURNALIST, YOU DIDN'T FEEL THAT YOU COULD PUSH BEYOND TELL YOUR SONS I'M SORRY.

YOUR SISTER HAS BEEN DOING IT AND YOU HAVE TO DO ITMENTS' YOUR TURN NOW?

>> OF COURSE AND EVERYONE IN OUR HOUSEHOLDS HAVE CHORES THEY HAVE TO DO.

AND THEY CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT IT BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO DO THEM.

BUT THERE IS STILL IN THE REWARD CYCLE OF THAT PHRASE GOOD GIRL, THAT SETS GIRLS UP FOR AN EXPECTATION OF PERFECTION.

>> TELL ME WHAT COMES OUT, WHAT TIPS DO YOU GIVE TO PARENTS PARTICULARLY OF DPIRLS, TO RAISE THEM SO THEY ARE CONFIDENT?

>> WELL, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS FOR PARENTS TO UNDERSTAND IS THE FORMULA FOR BUILDING CONFIDENCE IN OUR LIVES IS DOING THINGS, TAKING RISKS, FAILING, DOING SOME STRUGGLING, FAILING AND THEN ULTIMATELY PERSEVERING AND MASTERING SOMETHING.

IT IS A CYCLE.

CONFIDENCE IS WHAT HELPS US TURN OUR THOUGHTS INTO ACTION AND BY TAKING THAT ACTION YOU BUILD MORE CONFIDENCE.

SO IT REALLY DOES BECOME A CIRCLE.

GIRLS OFTEN DON'T GET ON THE CIRCLE BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSY THINKING.

AND THEN THE RISKS LOOM TOO LARGE FOR THEM.

ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE PERFECTIONISTS AND THEY DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING WRONG YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE RISKS.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE WANT GIRLS TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT GIRLS NEED TO TAKE MORE RISKS AND THEY NEED TO DO FAILING.

THIS IS GOING TO BE COUNTER INUSE ACTIVE FOR ALL THE -- COUNTER INTUITIVE.

BUT YOU CAN START SMALL AND IDENTIFY HOW TO GET THEM OUT OF THE COMFORT SO THAT ARE NOT TERRIFYING AND FOR EVERY GIRL IT IS DIFFERENT.

TELL THEM TO RAISE THEIR HAND IN CLASS.

THAT IS NOT ALWAYS A PROBLEM FOR EVERY GIRL.

FOR SOME GIRLS IT WILL BE A RISK TO WRITE A PAPER A CERTAIN WAY AND OTHERS IT WILL BE A RISK TO TALK TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE.

FOR OTHER GIRLS IT IS A RISK TO TRY A NEW SPORT.

IDENTIFY WHAT IT IS YOUR DAUGHTER MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT INTERESTED IN, BUT IS WORRIED ABOUT, AND REALLY ENCOURAGE HER TO DO IT AND HELP HER THROUGH THE PROCESS.

HOW DO YOU EVALUATE WHAT'S HAPPENED?

HOW DO YOU APPLAUD THE STRUGGLE IN THAT PROCESS?

THE WAY WE LIVE TODAY IT'S HARD TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY RATHER THAN A MONTH AGO.

AND SOMETIMES I HAVE TO FORCE MYSELF, REMEMBER WHEN THIS HAPPENED THREE MONTHS AGO?

AND LOOK AT YOU NOW?

RIGHT YOU HAVE TO TRY TO BE DELIBERATE ABOUT LOOKING AT THAT WHOLE CHUNK OF TIME.

BUT I THINK THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR PARENTS TO UNDERSTAND.

>> AND YOU THINK THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT TOO FROM THE BOOK?

OR OTHER THINGS THAT YOU THINK THAT THEY SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO?

>> OUR GIRLS ARE DOING INCREDIBLY WELL, ACADEMICALLY.

THEY ARE DOING BETTER THAN BOYS IN SCHOOL AND GETTING MORE DEGREES AND WE ARE GETTING MORE PHD'S THAN MEN AT THE MOMENT.

WHY IS IT WE HAVE THIS GAP IN CONFIDENCE?

THAT IS WHAT SO MANY MOTHERS AND FATHERS HAVE SAID LOOK I HAVE A DAUGHTER AND SHE IS SO TALENTED BUT SHE DOES NOT BELIEVE SHE IS AS TALENTED AND HOLDS HER BACK.

THE POLL THAT WE CONDUCT WITH THE BOOK SHOWS THAT BETWEEN THE AGES OF 8-14 GIRLS LOSE CONFIDENCE BY ABOUT 30%.

BOYS DON'T HAVE THAT DROP OFF.

AND WE NEVER REGAIN IT AGAIN.

SO WHAT IS IT THAT IS STOPPING GIRLS FROM BELIEVING THAT THEY CAN ACHIEVE IN THE SAME WAY THAT ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT TO DO IN THE SAME WAY THE BOYS CAN?

AND HOW CAN WE GET OVER THAT HUMP?

AND ALL OF THE RESEARCH WE'VE DONE SHOWN YOU GET CONFIDENCE NOT BY DOING THE THINGS YOU KNOW YOU CAN DO.

BUT TRYING THINGS THAT ARE HARD FOR YOU.

THAT ARE NEW.

THAT ARE DIFFICULT.

THAT PUSH YOU OUTSIDE OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE.

I READ THE NEWS TO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EVERY EVENING IT DOESN'T TEST MY CONFIDENCE I KNOW I CAN DO IT.

GIVE ME THE JOB OF AN ACCOUNTANT OR A LAWYER OR A DOCTOR, YOU KNOW, OR A TEACHER, I WOULD BE TERRIFIED.

THE ONLY WAY I KNOW IF I COULD DO IT IF I TRIED IT.

YOU HAVE TO TRY IT.

AND WITH THAT TRYING PROCESS I EVERRESTABLY WILL COME FAILURE.

BUT ALL OF THE RESEARCH THAT WE'VE DONE ON THE ISSUE OF CONFIDENCE AND GIRLS SHOWS FOR GIRLS THE PROCESS OF FAILING LOOMS REALLY LARGE.

IT'S SOMETHING BETWEEN THE AGES OF 12 AND 14 BECOMES A REAL PROBLEM FOR THEM.

THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO FAIL AND THEY BECOME AFRAID OF FAILURE.

AND THAT IS GOING TO MAKE THEM LESS LIKELY TO TAKE RISKS.

LESS LIKELY TO HARD THE HARD -- TRY THE HARD THINGS.

>> IN THAT DROP OFF PERIOD BETWEEN 8-14 WHEN THEY START TO LOSE CONFIDENCE, WHAT OTHER TRIGGERS BESIDES NOT HAVING -- AND WHY DOESN'T IT HAPPEN TO BOYS?

>> THIS IS WHAT'S MOST INTERESTING WHAT IS GOING ON WITH GIRLS THAT THIS PLUMMET HAPPENS?

AS WE DUG INTO THIS WE REALIZED LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE IT IS A MIX OF NATURE AND NURTURE.

THERE IS NATURE INVOLVED.

PUBERTY WE GET DIFFERENT HORMONES BOYS AND GIRLS DO AT PUBERTY AND ESTROGEN AND THE WAY OUR BRAINS DEVELOP AT PUBERTY WE BECOME OUR EQ SORES MUCH MORE AWARE OF THE WORLD AROUND US.

THESE ARE ALL GREAT THINGS ACTUALLY.

THEY ARE BIG ASSETS IN TERMS OF LATER LIFE, MANAGEMENT SKILLS THE WAY WE CONDUCT OURSELVES.

BUT THOSE THINGS CAN ALSO MAKE US MORE CAUTIOUS.

THEY CAN MAKE US MORE RISK-ADVERSE BECAUSE WE ARE SO AWARE AND WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO THINK WHAT IS SHE THINKING NOW?

WHAT ARE THE FIVE PEOPLE GOING TO THINK?

AND PEOPLE PLEASING SETS IN SO YOU HAVE ALL OF THAT.

AND BOYS WITH TESTOSTERONE OR GETTING A BOOST FOR RISK TAKING.

AND THEN COMBINE THAT BIOLOGY WITH WHAT KATTY AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH PARENTS AND TEACHERS KIND OF INADVERTENTLY ENCOURAGING THE GOOD GIRL SYNDROME WHO DOESN'T LIKE THAT?

AGAIN IT'S JUST SOMEBODY GETTING ALL THE ANSWERS RIGHT AND GETTING THE A'S IN SCHOOL.

>> WE REWARD THAT.

AND BY THE TIME GIRLS ARE IN HIGH SCHOOL THEY ARE FULL-BLOWN PERFECTIONISTS WHO DON'T WANT TO FAIL.

SO THIS IS THE PROCESS THAT WE SEE THAT -- AND BOYS ESSENTIALLY ARE NATURALLY LEARNING CONFIDENCE BECAUSE THEY JUST FAIL NATURALLY.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE SOCIAL INFLUENCE OF WOMEN, SOMETIMES THEY START OUT BUT BEYONCE, TAYLOR SWIFT, MADONNA WHO PARADE AROUND HALF NAKED ON STAGE, ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO GIRLS' CONFIDENCE?

>> THERE IS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ON GIRLS FROM MEDIA OUTLETS AND WHAT THEY SEE AND ESPECIALLY SOCIAL MEDIA.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOKED AT IS THAT GIRLS -- ROOM NATION SOMETHING WOMEN DO.

>> THERE WAS A HARVARD STUDY THAT MEN GET UPSET AND THEY ARE OVERTHINKING.

COMBINE IT WITH SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT EXPLODES.

THE POWER EXPLODES BECAUSE GIRLS CAN NEVER ESCAPE.

YOU HAVE A BAD DAY AT SCHOOL SOMEBODY SAYS SOMETHING MEAN YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU LOOK.

YOU DON'T GET AWAY FROM THAT IT KEEPS GOING AND GOING.

SO YOUR BRAIN DOESN'T GET A BREAK.

ONE OF THE -- >> IF THIS IS CAUSED BY ESTROGEN, ISN'T IT GOING TO BE THAT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO TEACH ESPECIALLY GIRLS TO OVERCOME SOMETHING THAT IS PART OF THEIR BODY?

>> IT IS.

BUT YOU CAN.

THIS IS WHAT WE'RE REALLY -- IT'S BASICALLY COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY.

FIRST RECOGNIZING.

SO THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT WILL HELP GIRLS AND WOMEN UNDERSTAND HOW TO STOP THE CYCLE OF OVERTHINKING IS RECOGNIZING THAT IT'S HAPPENING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

SO IF WE CAN HELP GIRLS UNDERSTAND AND WE DO THIS THROUGH SCENARIOS AND QUIZZES.

IT IS NOT JUST HERE IS HOW TO BUILD YOUR CONFIDENCE BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT WOULD BORE EVERYBODY BUT THESE ARE SCENARIOS THAT HELP THEM UNDERSTAND.

AM I A CATASTROPHIC THINKER OR A MIND READER?

AND THEY START TO SEE WHAT THE THINKING PARENTS LOOK LIKE AND WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT IT?

WE HAVE SIMPLE TOOLS THAT THE ARE EFFECTIVE.

I AM AN OVERTHINKER AND THE TOOLS WE WRITE ABOUT ARE REALLY HELPFUL.

>> AND ITH THE OTHER THING THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR GIRLS GIRL TO REALIZE THAT FAILURE HAPPENS TO EVERYBODY.

>> AND RIGHT EVERYBODY WHO IS SUCCESSFUL HAS FAILED BEFORE.

>> YOU CAN NAME THEM.

AND TO SHOW THOSE GIRLS THAT IT HAPPENS IN YOUR OWN LIFE, TOO.

IT IS A PARENT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE THINK WHAT IS THE ROLE MODEL WE ARE GIVING OUR GIRLS.

BECAUSE IF WE PROJECT AN IMAGE OF CONFIDENCE AND ONLY EVER PRAISE SUCCESS AND OVERPRAISE SUCCESS OR TRY AND MAKE EVERYTHING PERFECT IN OUR LOAN LIVES WE ARE SETTING UP OUR GIRLS THAT THAT IS THE STAN ARKED THEY HAVE TO REACH.

>> WE HAVE HAD SUCCESSFUL WITH THE CAMPAIGN CAPTURE CONFIDENCE WITH INSTAGRAM.

SOCIAL MEDIA IS HERE TO STAY.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO AVOID IT BUT USE IT IN A POSITIVE WAY.

IF YOU ARE FINDING A TRIBE THAT INSPIRES YOU OR YOU ARE LOOKING AT PICTURES ARE NOT NEGATIVE BUT POSITIVE THAT CAN HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON OUR BRAINS IN A POSITIVE WAY.

BIG HIT OF OXYTOCIN.

SO WE ASKED GIRLS TO POST PICTURES OF THEMSELVES NOT LOOKING PERFECT NOT PHOTO SHOPPED BUT DOING THINGS THAT MAY THEM FEEL CONFIDENT.

THE GIRLS WHO LAUNCHED THE CAMPAIGN ONE GIRL WHO DANCES.

SHE IS AN INCREDIBLE DANCER.

SHE DOES NOT HAVE A STANDARD DANCER'S BODY AND THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE.

A DISABLED GIRL, ELLIE WHO IS A PROTESTER AND THAT RESPONSE HAS BEEN AMAZING.

PARTLY IT'S TRYING TO DIRECT THEM TO AUTHENTICITY ON-LINE AND NOT TO SOME FAKE IMAGE BUT -- >> WHEN SHE DOES THAT, THE DANCER WITH THE NON-DANCER'S BODY, DOESN'T SHE GET CRITICISM, TOO?

>> AT LEAST IN THIS RECENT CAMPAIGN, THE POSITIVE FEEDBACK HAS SO OUTWEIGHED ANY OF THE TROLLING THAT IT'S JUST CONFIRMING.

>> THERE IS A DESIRE WE WERE STRUCK BY THE INSTAGRAM CAMPAIGN AND HOW QUICKLY IT TOOK OFF FOR GIRLS.

BECAUSE THERE IS A DESIRE FOR THEM SOCIAL MEDIA IS PART OF THEIR LIFE TO HAVE THAT AS A POSITIVE OUTLET RATHER THAN A SOURCE OF STRESS IS APPEALING FOR THEM.

>> AND BUT I HAVE HEARD YOUNG WOMEN OVER THE LAST FIVE OR 10 YEARS SAY THAT SEX THEY ARE FEMINISTS BUT THEY SEE SEX AS A GREAT POWER SO THEY DRESS YOU KNOW, WITH LOTS OF CLEAVAGE SHOWING AND YOU NAME IT, AND THEY SEE THAT AS A POWER THEY CAN USE OVER MEN.

WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> THAT IS AN ON-LINE ISSUE, TOO.

>> IT IS AN ON-LINE ISSUE.

IT IS TERRAIN THAT WE DID NOT HAVE TO FULLY EXPLORE.

WE WERE LUCKY IN THE BOOK BECAUSE THAT NEXT AGE JUMP WOULD HAVE GOTTEN INTO DIFFERENT TERRITORY BUT THERE IS A LOT OF INTERESTING DEBATE ABOUT THIS IN TERMS OF CLOTHING STANDARDS AND SCHOOL.

BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF EVEN GIRLS AGED 12 SAYING WELL IT'S NOT FAIR THAT BOYS CAN DO THIS AND I CAN'T WEAR SPAGHETTI STRAPS AND THAT DOESN'T FEEL EMPOWERING TO ME.

AND THE MOTHER WANTS TO SAY I'M REALLY GLAD YOU ARE NOT WEARING SPAGHETTI STRAPS BUT I WAS TRYING TO SEE IT FROM BOTH SIDES.

AND I HOPE EVERYBODY CAN HAVE THIS DEBATE.

>> ONE THING THAT HAS COME OUT OF THE #METOO MOVEMENT AND THE TIMING OF THIS BOOK COINCIDED WITH THE DISCUSSION ABOUT #METOO AND TIME'S UP AS WE CALL IT SPEAK UP AS WELL.

AND WE HAVE A MANIFESTO WE TOUCH ON THE ISSUE OF #METOO AND SUCCESSFUL HARASS -- SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND DEMAND RESPECT FOR THEIR BODIES AND BE ABLE TO SPEAK UP AND BECOME AGAINST ANY FORM OF ABUSE AGAINST THEMSELVES.

ONE ISSUE THAT IS THE ISSUE OF POWER AND STEKSALITY AND WHOSE -- SEXUALITY AND THE MESSAGE IS WHETHER YOU ARE WEARING SPAGHETTI STRAPS OR THE SHORTS IT IS NEVER A GIRL'S RESPONSIBILITY IF THEY ARE SEXUALLY ABUSED.

THAT IS ALWAYS THE ONUS OF THE ADULT WHO IS PERPETRATING THAT.

AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK.

BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A MESSAGE COMING OUT OF THE TIME THAT WE ARE LIVING.

>> THAT IS BRILLIANT ESPECIALLY YOUR PART ABOUT NOT HAVING TO OWN, NOT OWNING BLAMING YOURSELF FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS.

>> THAT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE NOTED A LOT ALL THE STORIES OF GIRLS AND WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED IS THE LEVEL OF GUILT.

WHY DIDN'T I SAY NO?

WHY DID I LET THAT HAPPEN?

WHY DIDN'T I SPEAK UP?

>> WHY DID I GO TO HIS APARTMENT?

>> ALL BECOMES SOMEHOW THE GIRL FEELS IT IS HER RESPONSIBILITY WHEN SHE HAS NOT PERPETRATED THE AGGRESSION.

>> AND ONE THINGS WE HAVE IN THE MANIFESTO IT'S NOT MY JOB TO PLEASE PEOPLE.

AND I THINK THAT THE EARLIER GIRLS CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THE BETTER.

BECAUSE -- >> THEN YOU WILL HAVE A DAUGHTER FOR EXAMPLE WHO IS NOT GOING TO SAY YES.

>> AND I HAVE ONE.

MY 12-YEAR-OLD NEVER SAID YES.

>> DID THAT CHANGE IN YOUR DAUGHTER AS WELL?

>> WELL, MY DAUGHTER'S NEVER BEEN MUCH OF A YES PERSON.

SHE WORRIES ABOUT GRADES THERE IS A LOT OF THE CLASSIC GIRL TENDENCIES AND SHE IS VERY TOM BOY, DOESN'T LIKE TO WASH HER HAIR.

WEARS CERTAIN THINGS AND I'VE HAD TO THE PROCESS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND HOW POWERFUL THAT IS AND I CAN HELP HER CELEBRATE TAT THAT SHE IS WILLING TO BE SO DIFFERENT AND TAKE A HARDER ROAD.

>> AND I JUST WAS THINKING OF WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, QUITE FRANKLY, I NEVER HAD A CONFIDENCE PROBLEM.

BUT MY ROLE MODEL WAS NOT MY MOTHER IT WAS MY FATHER.

HE WAS OUT THERE IN THE REAL WORLD.

HE WAS YOU KNOW, HE WAS A PUBLISHER IN THE 60s AND 70s.

AND PRETTY WELL-KNOWN.

AND PART OF THE NEW YORK LITERARY MOVEMENT OF THE TIME.

SO I WAS ABLE TO WATCH THAT AS A ROLE MODEL AND I DON'T THINK I THOUGHT THERE WAS NOT ANYTHING I COULDN'T DO.

EXPLAIN HOW FATHERS CAN HELP THE GIRLS FEEL SELF CONFIDENCE?

>> FATHERS ARE ESSENTIAL.

IT'S HELPFUL TO HAVE ONE POWERFUL ROLE MODEL AND SOMEBODY WHO IS OFTEN JUST GIVING YOU THAT SENSE THAT YOU CAN DO ANYTHING AND PUSHING YOU TO TRY NEW THINGS.

GIRLS FIND IT'S THE FATHER WHO DOES MORE OF THAT BECAUSE THEY INTUITIVELY UNDERSTAND HOW TO DO THAT.

THEY ARE LESS RISK-AVERSE OFTEN THAN THE MOTHERS.

AND ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS WE FOUND IN THE POLL, IN TERMS OF THE PARENTS OF THESE GIRLS THE FATHERS WERE BETTER ABLE TO RECOGNIZE A LACK OF CONFIDENCE IN THEIR DAUGHTERS THAN THE MOTHERS WERE.

>> INTERESTING.

>> HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

>> MAY BE BECAUSE MOTHERS THEMSELVES HAVE SOME LACK OF CONFIDENCE.

SO THEY ASSUME THIS IS THUNDERSTORMAL.

SO THEY A-- THIS IS NORMAL.

THEY ASSUME THE PEOPLE PLEASING, I HAVE TO GET AN A GRADE, I CANNOT TRY SOMETHING UNLESS I'M TOTE AL TOTALLY PREPARED.

I THINK THE DADS ARE LOOKING AND SAYING WHY AREN'T YOU GOING FOR THAT PAY RAZOR JOB PROMOTION OR THAT RISK IN SCHOOL?

YOU ARE TOTALLY QUALIFIED BUT YOU ARE HOLDING YOURSELF BACK AND THEY ARE THE ONES THAT SEE THE CONTRADICTION.

>> I REMEMBER MY MOTHER WAS EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE IN SMALL WAYS.

BUT IF YOU ARE ENCOURAGING GIRLS TO BE MORE OUT THERE AND TO BE MORE SELF ASSURED, ARE YOU ENCOURAGING THEM TO BE MORE COMPETITIVE?

AND IS THAT A GOOD THING?

>> IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT GIRLS CANNOT BE COMPETITIVE AND ALSO WHAT WE'VE SEEN WITH GIRLS AND WOMEN, AWARE OF WHAT THAT MEANS TO THE WORLD AROUND THEM.

>> WHAT IS -- WHAT IS YOUR STRENGTH?

WHAT IS YOUR KIND OF CONFIDENCE LOOK LIKE?

BECAUSE IT'S POSSIBLE TO BE CONFIDENT AND QUIET.

IT'S POSSIBLE TO BE CONFIDENT AND LOUD.

THE THING ABOUT CONFIDENCE, WHEN WE WERE DOING THE BOOK FOR WOMEN, IS YOUR PERCEPTION OF YOUR ABILITIES IN LINE WITH YOUR ABILITIES?

AND WOMEN'S PERCEPTION TENDS TO SKEW LOW AND ALL WE WANT TO DO IS BRING THAT IN LINE WITH YOUR ABILITY.

BUT IF YOU ARE HONEST ABOUT YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS AND TALENTS AND HOW VALID YOU CAN BE IN THE WORLD THEN YOU CAN ACHIEVE THINGS.

IF YOU CONSTANTLY SKEW LOW, IN YOUR PERCEPTION OF YOUR ABILITY YOU WILL HOLD YOURSELF BACK FROM TRYING NEW THINGS.

>> AND THAT IS A PERFECT PLACE TO END.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR THIS VERY ENLIGHTENING CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU CLAIRE SHIPMAN AND KATTY KAY.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪] THIS EPISODE TO THE CONTRARY PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.