THE DEWINE ADMINISTRATION AND THE NUCLEAR BAILOUT.

WELCOME TO COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD.

IT HAS BEEN QUIET ON THE HB 6 SCANDAL FRONT LATELY.

NO NEW INDICTMENTS OR GUILTY PLEAS IN MONTHS.

BUT THIS WEEK -- CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY >>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

IT HAS BEEN QUIET ON THE HB-6 SCANDAL FRONT LATELY.

NO NEW INDICTMENTS OR GUILTY PLEAS IN MONTHS.

BUT THIS WEEK TEXT MESSAGES OBTAINED BY THE OHIO CONSUMERS COUNCIL SHOWED HOW INVOLVED LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WAS IN PASSING THE LAW THAT BAILED OUT TWO FIRST ENERGY NUCLEAR PLANTS.

TEXT MESSAGES BETWEEN FIRST ENERGY LOBBYIST MIKE DOWLING AND THEN CEO CHUCK JONES INDICATE JOHN HOUSTON WAS WORKING TO GET IT PAST.

DOWLING TEXTED JUST HAD LONG CONVO WITH JD JUST NOW.

CALLED TWICE DURING OUR TWO CALLS AND HE CALLED ME BACK TWICE.

ALL IS WELL.

JH IS WORKING ON THE TEN YEARS.

HE IS AFRAID IT IS GOING TO END UP BEING EIGHT.

TALK LATER.

THE END OF THE TEXT REFERS TO EFFORTS TO MAKE THE BAILOUT LAST TEN YEARS AND ENDED UP BEING ONLY SEVEN YEARS.

THEN A COUPLE YEARS LATER AFTER NEWS OF THE SCANDAL BROKE HE WAS ASKED IF HE PUSHED FOR HOUSE BILL 6.

HERE IS THE EXCHANGE BETWEEN OHIO PUBLIC RADIO'S ANDY CHAO AND THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

>> WHAT ROLE DID YOU PLAY IN ALL THAT?

>> NONE.

>> THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT PUSHING FOR THE LEGISLATION OR TALKING TO SUPPORTERS OF A BILL.

HE SAYS HE SUPPORTED THE BAILOUT TO PRESERVE A POWER SOURCE THAT PRODUCES ZERO CARBON EMISSIONS.

WHAT HE SAID BACK IN DECEMBER OF 2021 DOES NOT JIVE WITH WHAT WAS IN THOSE TEXT MESSAGES.

>> LIKE YOU SAID, MIKE, THERE WASN'T ANYTHING ILLEGAL.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONGDOING THAT'S BEEN SUGGESTED IN THE TEXT MESSAGES BUT WE'VE LEARNED A COUPLE THINGS THROUGH THE TEXT MESSAGES, THAT JOHN HUSTED WAS INDEED WORKING TO HELP PASS HB-6 BUT NOT ONLY SUPPORTING IT AND THE NUCLEAR BAILOUT THAT CAME FROM THAT BILL BUT PUSHING FOR IT TO BE LONGER.

THERE WAS ALWAYS THE CONVERSATION OF IS IT GOING TO BE SEVEN YEARS, TEN YEARS, WE NOW KNOW BY READING THE TEXT MESSAGES THAT JOHN HUSTED WAS PUSHING FOR A TEN-YEAR BAILOUT WHICH AT THAT POINT WAS $150 MILLION A YEAR FROM RATE PAYORS' ELECTRIC BILLS.

IT WAS ONLY GOING TO LAST SEVEN YEARS.

LOOKS LIKE HE WAS PUSHING FOR TEN.

>> YOU'VE COVERED THIS EXTENSIVELY AND WERE THE FIRST TO REPORT ON THESE TEXT MESSAGES.

JOHN HUSTED SEEMED RELUCTANT TO COMMENT ON THIS CASE DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE SCANDAL.

IS THERE ANY INDICATION HE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THE DeWINE ADMINISTRATION IS BEING LOOKED AT BY INVESTIGATORS?

>> I'M NOT ON THAT TEAM SO I DON'T KNOW.

IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE THE DeWINE ADMINISTRATION BOTH THE GOVERNOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAVE SAID ROUTINELY, REPEATEDLY, THEY HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR NUCLEAR POWER, THAT IT IS PART OF THE PORTFOLIO OF CLEAN ENERGY OHIO HAS AND IT WAS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THOSE PLANTS OPEN AND OPERATING.

IT'S KIND OF A MIXED MESSAGE, THOUGH, WHEN YOU ASK WHAT WAS YOUR ROLE, NONE, AND YET THE TEXT MESSAGES SHOW OTHERWISE.

>> AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS CLIMATE BILL IN A MINUTE JOE BIDEN WAS ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN LOBBYING FOR THAT BILL AND TALKING TO COMPANIES LIKE INTEL FOR THE CHIPS BILL.

WHY NOT JUST SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I WAS FOR THIS BILL FOR ALL THE REASONS JUST MENTIONED.

IT'S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, GOOD FOR OHIO, GOOD FOR JOBS.

WHY SAY I DIDN'T PLAY A ROLE IN IT?

>> PART OF IT IF YOU ARE A POLITICIAN YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TWISTED INTO GUILT BY ASSOCIATION BY ASSOCIATING YOURSELF TOO MUCH.

WHAT HOUSEHOLDER WAS DOING AND IS GOING TO FACE IN FEDERAL COURT IS A SERIOUS CRIMINAL THING.

IF YOU TURN THE CLOCK BACK TO THE SUMMER OF 2018 THEY WERE SUPPORTING KEEPING THE NUCLEAR PLANTS OPERATING SO IT WAS A BIPARTISAN AND WHAT ORIGINALLY FINALLY PASSED IN THE LEGISLATURE AND IN FACT LARRY HOUSEHOLDER NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN SPEAKER WITHOUT THE KEY DEMOCRAT VOTES.

SO, CLEARLY, IN A YEAR OF POLITICS YOU DON'T WANT TO SHARPEN THE KNIVES OF PEOPLE MIGHT USE AGAINST YOU SO MAYBE YOU ARE OVERLY CAUTIOUS.

>> THIS MAKES HIM A LITTLE VULNERABLE NOW.

HE HAD ONE STORY THEN AND ANOTHER STORY THEN AND NOW.

>> OTHER THAN US I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY ELSE IS REALLY GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

>> WILL THE PEOPLE BE TALKING ABOUT IT?

>> I THINK SO.

I'LL TELL YOU MY CONCERN.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO, HE IS CORRECT.

I THINK THERE WAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN KEEPING THE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS GOING.

THE UNION OF CONCERNED SCIENTISTS CLEARLY SAID WE NEED TO RELY ON NUCLEAR POWER UNTIL SUCH TIME AS WE GO STRAIGHT INTO RENEWABLES.

THE ISSUE IS WHY THEN SAY YOU WEREN'T SUPPORTING IT.

AGAIN, AS A CONSUMER, IS IT BECAUSE YOU WERE MORE INVOLVED IN THE DARKER SIDE OF THE WHOLE STORY?

AND YOU WANT TO REMAIN AT ARM'S LENGTH?

THAT IS THE CONCERN AND WHEN IT BEGINS TO SMELL.

>> THIS IS AN ENORMOUS CASE.

HOUSE BILL 6 WAS A 1.3, $1.4 BILLION BAILOUT INVOLVED 4.5 MILLION CUSTOMERS ACROSS THE STATE NOT JUST FIRST ENERGY CUSTOMERS.

THIS WAS A FEE THAT WAS GOING TO BE APPLIED TO EVERYBODY'S MONTHLY BILL.

A FORTUNE 500 COMPANY THAT'S BASED IN AKRON.

$60 MILLION IN BRIBES.

I MEAN, IT IS JUST STUNNING HOW BIG THIS CASE IS AND I'M CURIOUS TO SEE, I MEAN, IT IS NOT GOING TO TRIAL UNTIL JANUARY SO PROBABLY IS NOT GOING TO HAVE TOO MUCH CHATTER ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

BUT I THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO EXPLAIN IT TO THE CUSTOMERS AND TO THE READERS AND THE LISTENERS.

>> IT HAS BEEN QUIET.

SAM RENDOZO HAS BEEN ACCUSED BY FIRST ENERGY OF ACCEPTING BRIBES FROM THE COMPANY BUT WE HAVEN'T REALLY HEARD HIS SIDE OF THE STORY YET BECAUSE HE HASN'T BEEN CHARGED YET.

>> YES.

FORMER CHAIR OF THE POCO IN THE DEFERRED PROSECUTION THAT FIRST ENERGY AGREED TO THEY SAID THEY BRIBED HIM FOR PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT DURING HIS LEADERSHIP ON THE PUCO.

THE OTHER THING ABOUT ALL THIS AND THE HUE STAD ASPECT OF EVERYTHING IS THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT PLAYERS AT THE STATE HOUSE FIGHTING FOR HB-6 AND AGAINST HB-6.

WHEN YOU TALK TO THE ADVOCATES NOW FIGHTING AGAINST IT THEY SAY THINGS LIKE THESE TEXT MESSAGES REVEAL JUST HOW MUCH OPPOSITION THEY FACED FROM THE OTHER SIDE.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE SOMEBODY LIKE JOHN HUSTED WAS NOT ONLY FIGHTING FOR HB-6 BUT FOR A LONGER, TEN-YEAR BAIL OUT.

>> I DO THINK ONCE IT GOES TO TRIAL IT WILL BE AN AVALANCHE OF INFORMATION WE DON'T KNOW.

IF YOU LOOK I WAS TALKING TO MY COLLEAGUE DOWN AT THE CINCINNATI ENQUIRER WHO COVERED THE FORMER CINCINNATI CITY COUNCIL MEMBER CASE AND SHE'S BEEN COVERING CITY HALL FOR MORE THAN TEN YEARS.

SHE SAT THROUGH THAT TRIAL AND SHE SAID SHE WAS FLOORED BY HOW MUCH INFORMATION SHE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON.

>> YOU ARE PULLING BACK THE CURTAIN.

>> WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FEDS REALLY HAVE BECAUSE IN THE CASE THEY HAD AN INFORMANT AND TAPE AND IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

WE DON'T KNOW IN THIS CASE WHAT THEY REALLY HAVE THOUGH OBVIOUSLY HOUSEHOLDER HAS TWO OF THESE TOP LUNTZ, THE ONE KEY LIEUTENANT WHO ALREADY PLED GUILTY.

HOUSEHOLDER HAS A PROBLEM BUT AGAIN UNTIL THE COURT PLAYS OUT.

>> IT IS NOT LIKE WE NEED TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION NOW.

WE'RE GOING TO BE ELECTING THE GOVERNOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR IN 90 DAYS, JOE.

WHAT IS THE OBLIGATION?

I KNOW THEY WANT TO PROTECT THE CASE AND PROTECT THE INNOCENT WHO HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGED YET BUT DOESN'T THE VOTER HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW BEFORE THEY CAST THE VOTE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

>> YEAH.

THIS IS WHERE YOU WOULD SAY I REST MY CASE.

IT IS -- THE TIMING IS NOT GOOD BUT ALL OF THE INFORMATION WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE TO US FOR A WHILE YET.

IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW, THAT IS NOTHING NEW WITH ELECTION ORS POLITICS.

>> ESPECIALLY WITH THE COVID PERIOD WHICH DELAYED COURT TRIALS FOR A YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR NEXT TOPIC.

TWO LARGE CONGRESSIONAL SPENDING BILLS COULD HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON OHIO'S FUTURE.

FIRST THE CHIPS ACT.

OHIO POLITICAL AND BUSINESS LEADERS PRESSED HARD FOR THAT BILL THAT GRANTS $52 BILLION TO COMPUTER CHIP MANUFACTURERS.

CHIEF AMONG THEM FOR OHIO IS INTEL WHICH SAYS IT NEEDS THE MONEY TO FULFILL ITS PROMISE OF A $100 BILLION CHIP FACTORY COMPLEX IN NEW ALBANY.

THIS WEEK PRESIDENT BIDEN SIGNED THE BILL INTO LAW AND PROMISED IT WOULD HELP THE UNITED STATES LEAD THE WORLD IN ADVANCED CHIP MANUFACTURING.

>> TO BE CLEAR THIS LAW IS NOT HANDING OUT BLANK CHECKS TO COMPANIES.

TODAY I AM ORDERING MY ADMINISTRATION TO BE LASER FOCUSED ON THE GUARD RAILS TO PROTECT TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

IT MEANS MAKING SURE THE COMPANIES PARTNER WITH COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND TECHNICAL SCHOOLS, OFFER TRAINING AND APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS AND WORK WITH SMALL, MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES OR HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE BACK ANY FEDERAL FUNDING IF THE COMPANIES DON'T MEET THESE COMMITMENTS REQUIRED BY THE BILL.

>> CAN INTEL LIVE UP TO ALL THOSE COMMITMENTS?

>> IT KIND OF DEPENDS WHICH YARDSTICK YOU ARE USING BECAUSE I THINK THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL MOST OF THOSE ARE INCREMENTAL DEPENDING HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY HIRE AND HOW MUCH MONEY THEY GET BACK.

INFRASTRUCTURE.

BUT THE FEDERAL MONEY WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALL THE DETAILS OF HOW THE MONEY IS GOING TO BE HANDED OUT BECAUSE AS WE SAW, THEY PASSED OUT MONEY TO SOLAR PEOPLE AND THEN WENT BANKRUPT AND ALL THE FEDERAL MONEY WAS LOST.

I HOPE IT WORKS OUT WELL BECAUSE I THINK THE INTEL THING IS NOT JUST HUGE BUT SUPER HUGE FOR CENTRAL OHIO >> I HAVE LITTLE DOUBT INTEL WILL AT LEAST TRY TO KEEP THE COMMITMENTS.

THAT IS NOT AN UNUSUAL THING BY THE WAY.

WE HAVE SEEN ACTUALLY WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF HONDA NOW THAT HONDA HAS BEEN IN FOR SO MANY YEARS THAT THE MONEY DOES SPREAD AROUND AND THERE ARE EDUCATIONAL, ENTRY LEVEL PROGRAMS FOR PEOPLE.

I KNOW I'VE REPRESENTED A NUMBER OF CLIENTS WHO HAVE DONE THAT.

>> STATE OFFICIALS STILL OPTIMISTIC.

THEY MUST BE EXTREMELY PLEASED THIS THING PASSED AND SIGNED INTO LAW BEFORE THE SUMMER.

NOW THEY CAN HAVE THE GROUNDBREAKING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS INTERESTING.

INTEL HAD A ROUGH FINANCIAL REPORT RECENTLY, SALES DOWN FOR EIGHT STRAIGHT QUARTERS.

THEIR REVENUES ARE $11 BILLION LESS THAN EXPECTED WHICH IS AN EYE-POPPING NUMBER.

THEY HAVE BIG NUMBERS OVERALL.

IT IS A LONG TERM PLAY TO BUILD CAPACITY SO EVEN IF THEY'RE IMPACTED ON THE SHORT TERM I STILL THINK THEY'LL STICK WITH CAPACITY BUILDING.

>> DO SHAREHOLDERS OF INTEL BUY INTO THE LONG TERM STRATEGY ITS CEO IS NOW PURSUING?

IT IS A THREE TO FIVE-YEAR STRATEGY, INNOVATE, MAKE THE CHIPS IN THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE AS WELL.

>> THAT WAS A BIG SALES PITCH AND WHY REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WERE RALLYING BEHIND THE CHIPS ACT.

IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF NECESSARILY THE INITIAL $20 BILLION INVESTMENT ALREADY GOING TO HAPPEN HERE BUT THE NEXT FOUR PHASES, OTHER INSTALLMENTS OF $20 BILLION.

YOU ALREADY SEE THE EUROPEAN UNION HEAVILY SUBSIDIZING CHIP MANUFACTURING, CHINA HAS BEEN DOING THAT FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

AMERICA WANTED TO COMPETE AND THEY SAY THIS IS THE WAY TO DO IT.

>> HERE ARE THE EUROPEAN NUMBERS.

THE EUROPEAN UNION IS GIVING $45 BILLION TO INTEL.

ITALY ACCORDING TO REUTERS IS READY TO PAY AS MUCH AS 40% OF INTEL'S INVESTMENT IN THE COUNTRY.

OURS IS CHUMP CHANGE COMPARED TO THOSE GUYS.

>> I TELL YOU, THE INSPIRATION BEHIND THE WHOLE THING NOT WITH STANDING WHAT INTEL SAID A FEW WEEKS AGO ABOUT HAVING TO GO TO ASIA IN THE CHIPS, IF THE CHIPS DIDN'T PASS THERE IS SOME DEGREE OF INSTABILITY WITH RESPECT TO TAIWAN, CERTAINLY CHINA, CHINA'S SUPPORT OF RUSSIA IS STILL OF CONCERN.

SO YEAH.

THE EUROPEAN UNION WILL COME IN AND WE ARE GOING TO COME IN.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTIN, TEXAS, IT ATTRACTED MORE AND MORE TECH PEOPLE AND COMPANIES AND I THINK THAT HAS THE CHANCE TO HAPPEN HERE IN CENTRAL OHIO WE COULD BECOME THE NEXT AUSTIN, MINI SILICON VALLEY AND THE MIDWEST NEEDS THAT.

>> THE OTHER COMPANY REMEMBER IS FOXCONN IN WISCONSIN.

$3 BILLION IN STATE SUBSIDIES AND THEY NEVER LIVED UP TO -- ALWAYS A RISK.

>> BUT IN OHIO I'M NOT SURE ABOUT WISCONSIN, A LOT OF THAT IS CONDITIONAL.

YOU GET INCOME TAX REBATES BASED ON HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU HIRE.

>> THE NEXT TOPIC THE OTHER BILL BEFORE CONGRESS COULD AFFECT HOW OHIOANS HEAT THEIR HOMES, DRIVE TO WORK, AND WHETHER WE SEE INTENSE FLOODS OR DROUGHTS IN THE DECADES TO COME.

IT IS THE CLIMATE SPENDING BILL NOW BEFORE THE HOUSE.

THE HOUSE WAS DEBATING IT AS WE SPEAK THIS AFTERNOON AFTER THE SENATE PASSED IT EARLIER THIS WEEK.

OHIO ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVISTS PRAISED THE BILL.

OHIO AND NATURAL GAS COMPANY EXECUTIVES WARN IT COULD RESTRICT PRODUCTION AND LEAD TO HIGHER PRICES.

THE STATE HAS ALWAYS BEEN SLOWER THAN OTHER STATES TO EMBRACE RENEWABLES.

WILL THIS BILL SPEED UP OUR PROCESS OF ENDORSING THESE FORMS OF ENERGY?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

I THINK THE LAWMAKERS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE BEEN VERY RELUCTANT AND KIND OF SKEPTICAL OF SUBSIDIES AND THINGS THAT MIGHT PUT THE THUMB ON THE SCALE FOR ONE TECHNOLOGY OVER ANOTHER.

ALSO I THINK IT KIND OF SHOWS THE POWER OF THE UTILITIES IN LOBBYING IN THE LEGISLATURE.

THIS IS THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND A PACKAGE WITH STUFF FOR EVERYBODY.

MANUFACTURERS, ENVIRONMENTALISTS, CONSUMERS.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT IN OHIO.

>> IS THERE ONE AREA WHERE OHIOANS THINK THEY CAN BENEFIT THE MOST FROM THIS?

ELECTRIC CARS, SOLAR, WIND?

>> I THINK WHEN YOU ASK POLICY MAKERS WHAT THEY THINK OHIO IS GOING TO BENEFIT FROM IS THE MANUFACTURING SIDE.

THERE ARE TAX CREDITS TO MAKE THE WIND TURBINES, SOLAR PANELS, MANUFACTURE THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

A LOT OF FEDERAL MONEY PUMPED INTO THAT INDUSTRY.

>> LIKE THE INTEL DEAL, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.

WE STILL HAVE TO HEAT OUR HOMES NOW AND DRIVE OUR CARS NOW.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE HIGHER PRICES, SACRIFICE FOSSIL FUEL IN THE LONG TERM FOR SHORT TERM GAIN?

>> EXCELLENT QUESTION.

I HATE TO REALLY SEE THIS COMMITMENT TO TALKING ABOUT THIS BILL AS BEING ANTI-INFLATION.

I THINK WHEN YOU THROW MONEY INTO ANYTHING, I THINK THERE DOES HAVE AN INFLATIONARY EFFECT BUT THE BILL, ALSO, HAS SUPPORT FOR A NUMBER OF CONSUMER RELATED ISSUES AND SUPPORT FOR MEDICARE AND -- >> NEGOTIATION.

SO IT IS I THINK ULTIMATELY GOING TO WORK IN FAVOR OF THE CONSUMER BUT, AGAIN, AS A PURE PSEUDO INTELLECTUAL I AM A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THE EXPECTATIONS CONCERNING INFLATION.

IN AND OF ITSELF.

>> THIS REALLY ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE ANYTHING SHORT TERM OR MEDIUM TERM ON INFLATION RIGHT NOW.

ONE OF THE THINGS, EVEN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" THIS PAST WEEK DETAILED FOR MOST OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR.

THERE IS A LIMIT ON HOW MUCH YOU CAN SPEND ON A CAR AND HYBRID CARS ARE EXCLUDED.

"THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" THIS WEEK DETAILED THE QUESTION ON LITHIUM PRODUCTION AND HOW SUPPLIES ARE OVERSEAS IN COUNTRIES LIKE SOUTH AMERICA THAT AREN'T VERY FRIENDLY OR RELIABLE.

IT SOUNDS GOOD ON PAPER.

THE QUESTION IS HOW DOES IT REALLY WORK?

>> HONDA IS CONSIDERING A BATTERY FACTORY SOMEWHERE IN OHIO ACCORDING TO THIS, REPORTS AFTER THIS BILL WAS SIGNED.

>> YEAH.

THERE'S ALL SORTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT IF YOU ARE ABLE TO RAMP UP MANUFACTURING AND SCALE UP THE INDUSTRY DOES THAT BRING DOWN PRICES FOR CONSUMERS?

THEN WITH THIS INFLATION ACT IT ALSO BRINGS CONSUMER CREDITS, REBATE PROGRAMS TO HELP MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE TO INSTALL SOLAR PANELS ON YOUR HOUSE OR OTHER EFFICIENCY MEASURES, TOO?

>> ONE SURPRISING THING YOU EVEN GET SOME SUPPORT IF YOU BUY A USED ELECTRIC CAR.

IT IS NOT JUST THE NEW ELECTRIC CARS.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING CONSUMERS CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.

>> THE LEGISLATURE AND POLICY MAKERS IN OHIO HAVE NOT BEEN AS FRIENDLY TO RENEWABLE ENERGY PRODUCTS AS TO FRACKING FOR INSTANCE.

THEY ALLOW LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND COUNTIES TO PUT RESTRICTIONS ON WIND AND SOLAR FARMS BUT YOU CAN FRAC ANYWHERE YOU WANT.

ACCORDING TO STATE LAW.

IF THE MARKET CHANGES WILL THE LEGISLATURE HAVE TO CHANGE HOW IT VIEWS THESE PROJECTS NOW?

>> IF THERE IS A DEMAND FOR WIND AND SOLAR FARMS?

>> MAYBE.

I THINK ALSO IF AS YOU SEE LIKE THESE BATTERY FACTORIES UP AND RUNNING AND ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCTION IN OHIO, ONCE THERE IS MORE OF A FOOTHOLD FOR OHIO I THINK WE MIGHT SEE A SHIFT IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>> SOME OF THESE COMPANIES WERE ALREADY INVOLVED IN SOLAR AND WIND.

DOES IT PROMPT A FIRST ENERGY TO INVEST MORE THEMSELVES?

>> THEY MIGHT.

THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ECONOMICS AND DOES IT WORK AND THE PAST FEW MONTHS EUROPE SUDDENLY DISCOVERED, SPAIN IS TELLING PEOPLE THEY CAN'T RUN AIR CONDITIONERS BECAUSE IN EUROPE THEY SHUT DOWN TOO QUICKLY NUCLEAR AND COAL PLANTS AND NOW SUDDENLY THEY CAN'T RUN IT AND ANDY DID A GOOD PIECE ON WOSU RADIO AND NOTED IN CALIFORNIA THERE IS THIS LITTLE DETAIL MOST PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT CALLED BASE LOAD AND THE WIND DOESN'T, AND THE SUN DOESN'T DO VERY MUCH AT NIGHT TIME AND WINTER AND PARTS OF THE STATE.

ALL THIS SOUNDS GOOD ON PAPER.

THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU MAKE IT WORK?

>> I TALKED TO THE NATURAL GAS INDUSTRY IN OHIO AND IF YOU LOOK AT EUROPEAN COUNTRIES LIKE GERMANY THEY RELIED ON NATURAL GAS TO BE THE BRIDGE RESOURCE TO HELP MOVE TOWARD THINGS LIKE SOLAR AND WIND BUT THEY SAY THAT THERE SHOULD STILL BE A SPACE IN OHIO TO DEVELOP NATURAL GAS TO HELP IN THAT EFFORT.

>> GOOD NEWS FOR THE FRACKING INDUSTRY IN OHIO.

AT LEAST THE NEAR TERM.

OUR LAST TOPIC THE SHADOW OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP CONTINUES TO LOOM OVER THE RACE FOR U.S. SENATE IN OHIO.

THIS WEEK IT WAS THE FBI UNANNOUNCED SEARCH OF TRUMP'S FLORIDA ESTATE.

JD VANCE ECHOED MANY REPUBLICAN VOICES AND TWEETED THE RAID WAS DISGRACEFUL AND UNPRECEDENTED.

HE WROTE THE QUESTION BECOMES, WHAT COMES NEXT?

WE EITHER HAVE A REPUBLIC OR WE DON'T.

IF WE DO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE POLITICIZED THE FBI IN RECENT YEARS WILL FACE INVESTIGATION AND PROSECUTION.

RYAN SAID LESS ON TWITTER AND POKED FUN AT VANCE FOR AN UPCOMING EVENT WITH POTENTIAL TRUMP RIVAL RON DeSANTIS AND ASKED JD VANCE IF THERE WAS TROUBLE IN MAR-A-LAGO.

>> WE'RE JUST NOW LEARNING THE DETAILS OF THIS RAID, SEARCH, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.

DID THESE GUYS GET OUT AHEAD OF THEIR SKIS BEFORE THEY KNEW ALL THE FACTS IN CONDEMNING OR PRAISING THIS RAID?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THEY FELT COMPELLED TO DO THAT BECAUSE OF THE OVER HEATED POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT WE HAPPENED TO BE LIVING IN.

IF YOU PAY ATTENTION AGAIN, I AM A LAWYER, YES, AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

IF YOU PAY ATTENTION TO THE TYPE OF RESPONSES THEY SHOW AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF IGNORANCE WITH RESPECT TO HOW IT IS THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT OPERATES.

I THINK THE MOST POPULAR COMMENTARY IS IF THEY CAN DO THIS TO AN EX-PRESIDENT THEY CAN DO IT TO YOU.

WELL YEAH.

GUESS WHAT?

THEY CAN DO IT TO YOU AND THEY DO IF THERE IS PROBABLE CAUSE FOR THEM TO GO INTO YOUR HOUSE AND LOOK FOR SOMETHING ILLEGAL.

>> WE SAW THIS WEEK IN OHIO PERHAPS THE CONSEQUENCES OF OVER HEATED RHETORIC.

THIS GUY WENT TO THE FBI OFFICE AND IN CINCINNATI AND TRIED TO ATTACK THEM WITH A NAIL GUN.

>> RIGHT.

I'VE BEEN TO THE FBI CINCINNATI OFFICE.

IT IS A FORTRESS.

SO KIND OF PICKED THE WRONG BUILDING.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE MIGHT NOT BE FURTHER ATTACKS ELSEWHERE.

I DO THINK IT IS A HARBINGER OF SOMETHING TO COME.

>> I WANT TO ECHO WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT OVER HEATED RHETORIC ON BOTH SIDES.

IN 2016 THERE WAS A CERTAIN CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT, HILLARY, AND THE DEMOCRATS WHO THOUGHT THE FBI DIRECTOR WAS OUT OF CONTROL WITH CERTAIN THINGS HE WAS DOING AND THE TIMING OF IT SO THIS IS THE KIND OF ISSUE THAT HAPPENED ON BOTH SIDES IN THE PAST AND IT IS A DELICATE BALANCE AND I THINK FROM WHAT LITTLE HAS BEEN RELEASED SO FAR TODAY WE DO WANT TO KNOW WHAT WAS BEHIND THE AFFIDAVIT SUBMITTED TO THE FEDERAL MAGISTRATE THAT ALLOWED THE SEARCH SO THERE'S STILL LOTS TO LEARN AND SOMETIMES IT IS GOOD INFORMATION BEFORE YOU COMMENT.

>> I'M NOT SURE IF THEY ARE GOING TO RELEASE THE AFFIDAVIT.

I THINK THE WARRANT BUT THE ATTACHED AFFIDAVIT WHICH I UNDERSTAND IS SOMETHING LIKE 30 PAGES LONG, THAT I AM NOT SURE IF WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT.

>> NOT UNLESS IT GOES TO TRIAL OR AT SOME POINT LIKE THAT.

>> THEN THE EVIDENCE WILL COME OUT.

>> THIS GOES TO MY OTHER QUESTION ABOUT HB-6.

SHOULDN'T WE KNOW BUT THEY HAVE TO PROTECT THE INVESTIGATION.

>> IT KIND OF REMINDS ME WE HAVE SO MUCH TIME UNTIL NOVEMBER SO THE BIG, POLITICAL QUESTION TODAY WE MIGHT EVEN FORGET IN A FEW WEEKS AND LIKE YOU SAID THERE IS SO MUCH MORE INFORMATION COMING OUT AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE STARTING TO SEE FROM THESE CAMPAIGNS IS PICKING AND CHOOSING WHEN THEY CHOOSE TO RESPOND AND WHEN NOT TO RESPOND AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THEM POLITICALLY?

>> JD VANCE FULLY EMBRACED DONALD TRUMP THIS WEEK IN HIS STANCE ON THIS RAID AS THEY CALL IT.

FUND RAISED OFF OF IT.

HE'S NOT GIVING UP ON DONALD TRUMP NOW THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT JOSH MANDEL AND MIKE GIBBONS ANYMORE.

>> THE CAMPAIGN HAS HEATED UP BECAUSE HE STARTED MEDIA PARTICULARLY IN THE CLEVELAND YOUNGSTOWN MARKETS AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING.

WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY INDEPENDENT POLLS SINCE MAY.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHERE IT IS AT AND ALSO RYAN HAS SPENT $18 MILLION SO FAR SO HE IS OBVIOUSLY CLOSE, MAYBE SLIGHTLY AHEAD.

MAYBE SLIGHTLY BEHIND.

WE'LL BE TALKING ON THIS SHOW A LOT MORE ABOUT THE SENATE RACE BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO HEAT UP AND BE ONE OF THE BIG ONES IN THE NATION.

>> THE TRUMP SUPPORT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP HIMSELF.

I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE TRUMP SUPPORTERS.

AND HE NEEDS TO CARRY OUT THAT NARRATIVE.

>> HE'S BEEN SORT OF COURTING MAYBE LUKEWARM TRUMP SUPPORTERS WHO MAYBE VOTED FOR BARACK OBAMA AND THEN FOR TRUMP IN 2016 AND 2020.

HE CAN'T REALLY CONDEMN DONALD TRUMP TOO MUCH CAN HE?

OR CAN HE?

>> HE WANTS TO WIN BACK THE TRUMP SUPPORTERS AND WANTS THE ONES WHO WERE IN THE DEMOCRATIC CAMP AND THEN THEY, TRUMP MADE AN APPEAL TO THE FORGOTTEN PERSON OR WHATEVER AND I THINK HE IS KIND OF WALKING A TIGHT ROPE BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF IT WORKS.

HE IS NOT GOING TO WADE INTO THE CULTURE WARS.

HE'LL FOCUS ON WORKERS AND ECONOMIC FREEDOM I THINK IS WHAT HE IS SAYING.

>> I GOT NO -- I THINK THAT IS IN FACT THE CORRECT MIX FOR DEMOCRATS GOING FORWARD AND IN THE PENNSYLVANIA RACE FOR SENATE YOU HAVE SIMILAR CANDIDATES DOING THE SAME THING >> I THINK TIM RYAN DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM ATTACKING DONALD TRUMP AT TIMES.

AS LONG AS HE IS NOT ATTACKING THE ISSUES THE SUPPORTERS WHO COULD COME HIS WAY MIGHT BE SUPPORTIVE OF.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOT.

>> IT IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU MENTIONED ABOUT THE MAN TRYING TO BREAK INTO THE FBI OFFICE.

THIS WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF THIS OVER HEATED ENVIRONMENT THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT BUT BASED ON IGNORANCE AND IRRESPONSIBLE REPORTING BY CERTAIN MEDIA AND OUTLETS.

MEDIA OUTLETS NEED TO ACT MORE RESPONSIBLY AND REMEMBER THAT MOTIVATING VIOLENCE IS A SIN AGAINST HUMANITY.

>> YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT ABORTION BUT I'M GOING TO BRING IT UP BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE THIS PAST WEEK ON SOME PROSECUTORS TO SAY THEY WON'T EVER PROSECUTE ANY CASE RELATED TO ABORTION.

IF THEY ARE SMART LIKE THE DEMOCRAT WOMEN FLOKTS AKRON AND TOLEDO DID THEY HAVEN'T MADE SUCH A POSITION BECAUSE OFFICIALS WHO MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS NEED TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE THERE ARE PROVISIONS FOR REMOVAL IF YOU AREN'T DOING YOUR JOB.

>> OHIO LAWMAKERS INTRODUCED A BIPARTISAN BILL TO RETROACTIVELY GRANT A REPRIEVE, RELIEF IF FUTURE BILLS WERE TO REFORM THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

SEEMED TO BE A LOT OF SUPPORT BEHIND IT.

IT MIGHT BE PAVING THE WAY FOR FUTURE BILLS TO REFORM THE SYSTEM.

>> I JUST WANTED TO DO A SHOUT OUT TO THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH INTERNSHIP CLASS.

THEY ARE FINISHING UP AND CONGRATULATIONS, GOOD JOB.

AND KEEP IN MIND THE OLD NEWSROOM ADAGE WHICH IS, IF YOUR MOTHER SAYS SHE LOVES YOU, CHECK IT OUT.

>> ABSOLUTELY CHECK IT OUT.

YOU MENTIONED ALL THE ADS RUNNING, RON DeSANTIS CAMPAIGNING WITH JD VANCE IN THE YOUNGSTOWN AREA.

TIM RYAN'S HOME TURF.

THAT WILL BE GROUND ZERO IN THIS U.S. SENATE RACE.

THAT WILL BE THE KEY PART OF THE STATE IF VANCE WINS BIG THERE IT COULD BE OVER FOR TIM RYAN IF RYAN HOLDS HIS OWN AND WINS THERE, GOOD NEWS FOR HIM.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

WATCH EVERY SHOW ON DEMAND AT OUR WEBSITE WOSU.ORG AND ON THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.