- Triangle youth casted their fishing rods over the summer, eager to learn all about fishing in the 2023 Annual Ebony Anglers Youth Camp.

And later, one young man's journey as a Paralympian, and the youngest male track athlete to qualify for Team USA.

Coming up next on Black Issues Forum.

[upbeat music] - [Announcer] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina, with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum, I'm Kenia Thompson.

Anchored in family, fishing, and fine outdoor living, five professional black women have embraced the sport of competitive fishing while balancing family, motherhood, and business, and making it their mission to share their love of angling with youth across the triangle.

I had the opportunity to spend the weekend with them at Falls Lake in Raleigh, North Carolina, and even learned a little bit about fishing.

Good morning, ladies.

- [Together] Good morning.

- [Kenia] We're here at the beautiful Falls Lake in Raleigh, North Carolina for day two of the Ebony Anglers Camp.

- [Speaker] Yes.

- [Kenia] Tell me about why it's so important that these children experience what you guys do, and we'll talk a little bit more about what you do a little later.

- Sure, well, I think it's something that all of us felt was very important from the beginning.

We knew we had a platform once we blew up on the tournament chart, so to speak.

So we wanted to make sure that we were good stewards of that platform and wanted to just share the feeling of being out on the water, the freedom, the peace, and the way that we cope with life, how that feels on the water.

Let that translate over to young people, particularly young people of color who may not have the opportunity to access their waterways and their parks as easily as we do.

And so teaching them the skill, the life skill of fishing, is survival, it's leadership.

It's also athleticism because you've gotta be fit and you have to be strong of mind to combat what you're pulling in the water.

You never know what you're gonna catch.

And those are skills we felt were very important to teach young people, especially during these times.

- Definitely, and Gia and I were talking yesterday about the importance of exposure.

- [Together] Yeah.

- Gia, if you wanna expound upon that, just exposing them to marine biology, water studies.

- [Gia] Yeah, we definitely also felt like we needed to give them an opportunity to be exposed to the outdoors in many different capacities.

There's so many professions and careers and opportunities that exist in this field, as you mentioned, marine biologists, boat captains, understanding the ecosystem, learning about biodiversity, that we felt like, if we at least give them the platform or opportunity to experience the water in a positive way, you never know what you fall in love with.

And it's a passion of ours, and we really wanted to translate that passion, or at least the opportunity to have that passion, to young people as well.

- So let's talk about all your passions.

I'd love to hear your story, starting with you individually, with how you got involved, have you fished ever before or was this the first time, when you guys got together and said, this is what we're gonna do?

- Fishing for me, when I was a young girl, I fished with relatives, but I hadn't fished any more until I became an adult.

And how we got started is when Gia asked me to be on the team.

I had not thought about fishing, but I'm always someone who is up for a good experience, so love a good experience.

So I was like, sure.

And once I started fishing, I discovered that I really did enjoy it.

I developed a love for it and I'm excited when we go on the tournaments.

You never know what you're gonna catch.

You never know what's coming up in that water until you bring it to the surface.

So it's the excitement of it, of what you're gonna catch, and just being out there in the peace and the camaraderie with friends.

We've developed a strong bond together, so, yeah-- - [Kenia] That's beautiful.

And Bobbiette, you have a background in fashion?

- Yes, I do.

- Yeah, so how did you go from fashion to fishing?

- I'm still asking myself that.

[group laughs] So I've known Gia since like 2014 and yeah, we met during a fashion show and I was putting some collaborative shoots together and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to have you.

She's an amazing stylist and we've just been rocking since then.

She knows all my deep dark secrets.

[group laughs] As a good stylist would.

- With the vault too.

- And the box is buried.

- [laughs] Exactly.

And so during COVID, she called and asked me if I wanted to join a fishing team.

And before I could think about it, my mouth said yes.

[group laughs] - Not knowing what you were getting yourself into.

- Yes, and so that's how I got started.

And it was a little challenging for me because, you know, I get motion sickness and so a lot of my, you know, my struggles was trying to overcome and you know, how do I develop a routine?

- Lesleigh, I know in your world you are Co-owner of the DOME Group?

- Yes.

- Yeah, so tell us a little bit about that and how does that personal life mix in with this fishing life?

[group laughs] You know, it's a process.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- You know, it comes and goes.

But yes, I am Vice President of the DOME Group.

We are a concert promotions company here in North Carolina, and we promote most of the urban shows that you see in the area at the Deepak.

We also are owners of the Art of Proof Festival.

In my former slash current life, I was an assistant principal, a public school educator, so 24 years in public education.

And then these years as an entrepreneur, been full-time with the DOME group since 2016.

So coming from an educational industry and then kind of merging into entrepreneurship, I had to learn to be flexible.

I had to adopt a different mindset.

And so when this opportunity to do something completely out of the box was presented to me, it felt organic.

It felt right on time.

My father, before he passed, my father was a deep sea angler.

- [Kenia] Oh wow.

- And so I remember growing up, him teaching me how to use a rod as a little girl, but we did not, you know, have the opportunity to fish together.

That wasn't even a passion of mine while he was alive.

Fast forward to, you know, 2020 during the pandemic, and then Gia had this idea and came to me, I felt goosebumps immediately.

I felt like that was my father saying, say yes, this is, this is us, this is our time together.

And I quickly said yes and this whole experience has taken on a different trajectory.

We thought we were just gonna be sport fishing professionally, and look at this, look at these children.

We have 40 kids from the area.

This is our third year doing this camp.

We've been on national TV, international radio, BBC Sports.

And so we're making waves as black women and really doing something special and making an impact in the world.

And that started with a yes.

- That's all it starts with.

Gia and I were talking the other day, yesterday, day one of camp, and we talked about the impact that you as black women have, but when you first started this, there wasn't any representation in this space.

Talk a little more about that and, and that, that need to, and that desire to put this group together.

- Certainly, you know, this is a passion that spawned from a love that my husband had of fishing.

He's been fishing since he was eight and exposed me to the world of fishing.

And so one pastime that we have is that we would always go down to the coast and, you know, look at the boats come in, and we were down there during the Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament and the boats were backing in.

And five ladies would get off and I would say, okay.

And then another five ladies would get off.

And I would say, okay.

And so I turned to him and I said, you know, what's happening?

And he was like, well, the first day is the ladies' day, the ladies' tournament.

And so, being the competitive person I am, I said, well, how do you get in this?

And he said, well, you gotta get a boat and a captain and a team.

And I'm making a mental checklist and I'm saying, okay, I can do that, I can do that.

But I think the thing that struck me the most was that there was nobody who looked like me.

I didn't see not one person who looked like me.

And I certainly feel as an individual that representation is important, you know, and sometimes people need to see a physical example of somebody who looks like them to either be inspired or encouraged to do something they've never done before.

And so with that being said, I immediately went down my roster, who could do this with me?

And of course these ladies, you know.

- [Kenia] We'd be remiss to not acknowledge one lady that's not here with us this morning.

She did pop up behind the scenes, [group laughs] but we don't wanna mess up the photographers right now.

Let's go ahead and share her name and who she is and how she's been part of this.

- Yes.

Tiana Davis.

Tiana Davis is our fifth member, who also is an outstanding angler, mom, wife, mother of five.

She came to us through Leslie.

They had had a long-term relationship in which they had met in church, and when we were looking for a fifth person, Leslie automatically said, I know the perfect person.

So she rounded us out nicely.

And we've been, you know, on an upward trajectory ever since.

- Now, there's a myth that I want to clear up.

Do you need a fishing license to fish?

- [Together] Yes, you do.

- I've heard yes, I've heard no.

- [Speaker] Oh, absolutely.

- If you wanna be a good steward, and we're all about stewardship and conservation and doing this the right way, and that's the way you gain respect in this sport, and that's the way that you know that you're doing it right.

So yes, you need a fishing license.

- [Kenia] Good to know.

And these are the things we're teaching the kids, right?

- [Together] Absolutely, yes.

- And so take it back to the kids, let's talk about, what's that one takeaway you want them to have from this camp, or memory that you want them to carry?

- I would say that's challenging.

I mean, just to select one takeaway.

I mean, just in fishing in general, there's so many skills that you acquire knowingly and unknowingly in doing this.

You know, whether it's the dexterity and tying knots and working with your hands.

Whether it's the relationships that you build through the networks of other people who love fishing because it's such a community.

- Yeah, it is.

- Whether it's the sense of accomplishment that you feel when you pull that fish in, or just the calm that you get from being outdoors and in nature.

- It's great work and I'm so grateful to be here with you.

I've already experienced day one, day two is just about to get started.

So let's head over to the water.

- [Together] Yes.

- Born with a limb difference that resulted in the amputation of his left leg when he was just nine months old, Paralympian Desmond Jackson didn't let that stop him from blazing a trail.

At 16 years old, Desmond was the youngest male track athlete to qualify for Team USA at the 2016 Rio Paralympics where he competed in the long jump.

Today, Desmond has faced some challenges, but not without determination to overcome them.

Here's his story.

- Desmond, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode.

I'd love to start by having you share with the audience who are you and what is your Paralympian life look like to you thus far?

- Well, my name is Desmond Jackson and I'm a Paralympian.

I made my first Paralympic Games when I was 16 in 2016 going to Rio.

And I've been competing really since I was 11 or 12 years old.

And not only have I blazed the trail in the Paralympic world, but here in the state of North Carolina, I've also blazed the trail just for adaptive sports, being the first amputee to compete in track and field in North Carolina.

And I've done it from middle school to college, you know, to the D1 level.

- So let's clarify for our viewers.

Were you born as an amputee, or how, how did that journey come about?

- Yeah, so I am a congenital amputee, is what you would call it.

And that means I was just, I had my surgery when I was near birth, so I learned how to walk.

And you know, after I had my surgery, I was on my stump the next day and I was in a crib at that point.

- How old were you, though?

- Yeah, I was really less than one, I wasn't even one yet.

You know, I was like in those months.

- Yeah, wow.

And so to qualify as a Paralympian, what exactly do you need to be able to qualify?

- [Desmond] It comes down to talent and discipline, you know?

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- [Desmond] It's a long road, you know, up a mountain I would say, you know, but some people are just, you know, gifted and others have to work harder, you know, to get there, it just depends.

- But all Paralympians have some level of disability, correct?

So is that an amputee or is that beyond that, as well?

- Yes, so it's many different classifications and amputees is just one of them.

- Okay.

- We also have blind people, people with cerebral palsy, CP.

You have people that are missing not only their limbs or their legs, but their arms as well.

So it just ranges.

- [Kenia] Wow, wow.

And I just, you know, put up a picture there so that folks could see and understand, like that's how that you were able to run and compete just as, you know, competitively as others.

And so let's talk about your idea of representation in this space.

You know, we don't typically see mainstream athletes that are missing limbs, and so you've made such a name for yourself.

Let's talk about representation.

So for you, representation looks like not just being an amputee, but also being a male, and also being a black male.

So how has that factored into your journey?

Have you encountered struggles or roadblocks or, you know, what has that looked like?

- [Desmond] You know, it's been, it's been setbacks, it's been challenges.

It's been a lot of things at every level of my track and field experience.

But, you know, I'm a firm believer in God, and I'm a Christian, so I believe it was all, you know, part of the plan, you know, God's plan.

And, but specifically, I mean, it, you know, it definitely is challenges, especially being African American, with a disability.

I mean, when I was growing up, I didn't see anybody that looked like me.

You know, I really was like kind of, I was an outlier in a way in my community, which was also a good thing because being different, a lot of people can feel ashamed of being different, but you're also unique.

So, I mean, it's a trade off.

And you know, at times it was bittersweet, but ultimately it made me a better and stronger person.

- Yeah.

And so when you look at access, equality, inclusion in the sports space, for those who are disabled, and again, not just amputees, has there been consideration for this in a wider scale beyond the Paralympian space?

And where do you think there needs to be focus on ensuring that there is true inclusion and equality in this space?

- Well, I think it first starts with education.

You know, a lot of people compare the Paralympics to the Special Olympics, and I actually have a lot of experience working with Special Olympics, and they're two different entities, like completely different.

- So tell us, what is the difference?

- Well, Paralympics is all about people, athletes with physical disabilities.

And also Special Olympics is for athletes with mental disabilities.

Now, the competitive nature of both of them, you know, both sides want to win, but ultimately the Paralympics is very much like the Olympics, if not more competitive, because we're ultimately competing against, we're not only competing against people in our specific classification as like I'm an amputee, like I'm competing with other amputees that are above the knee.

We're also competing to make these international teams, Paralympic Games, World Championships, Para Pan events.

We're competing against other classifications to then, you know, qualify to go to these big competitions.

- And so when you talk about the Paralympics, again, that's different from the Olympics.

- Yes.

- And, but do they, and at any point in time, cross or intersect or merge in any way?

- They do.

I, you know, I really like to compare it to being like a brother and sister, or you know, some way of the sort.

If you look at our governing body, it's called the USOPC, and it just changed to that, it used to be called the USOC, and now that stands for United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee.

So I mean, it is, you know, we've seen major growth in the past few years and like, really since I've competed, you know, when I first started it was United States Olympic Committee and they didn't even, you know, mention the Paralympic side of things in that equation.

And you know, you see that, you know, in personal experiences or personal encounters.

But at the same time, like I said, we've seen so much growth and the Olympic side has a lot of respect, you know.

It's a lot of people that have a lot of respect for the Paralympics side of things.

- That's amazing.

You know, there are a lot of challenges, like you said, but you specifically have encountered one unique challenge in a way, and that happened with an incident that happened with your coach.

You know, over the years we've seen a lot of athletes, or handful of athletes, that have been accused of doping.

And unfortunately there was a situation that happened.

And I'd love for you to share that with us a little bit, and we will talk about what some of those problems that come from that have arisen.

So if you don't mind sharing your story with that.

- For sure.

So, you know, this is a little story time.

So I once had a coach for, you know, five to seven years, on and off, you know, and I started with him when I was really, you know, young.

I was young, I was 14, in that range.

So I was very young and I didn't know a whole lot about the specifics of the USADA organization, which is athletes have to submit to, you know, in terms of whereabouts and getting drug tested if you want to be a part of the Paralympics or Olympics for the United States.

And so I actually had been competing for a long time, and I was at this event, this was going into my second attempt to make a Paralympic Games, you know, back when we were, you know, during the Covid era and the pandemic, you know, it was really 2021, but that was for the Tokyo 2020 Paralympic Games.

So I was at this trials event, and that coach at the time, he gave me a banned supplement, whether he knew or not.

And that ended up being, you know, what caused me to test positive.

- So, you know, for me, when I heard about your story, that raised a bigger concern.

You know, we have athletes that, like Alex Rodriguez, who was accused of doping, Michael Phelps, who got his medals taken away as a result, Sha'Carri Richardson.

And then we've got athletes who have come out and said, it wasn't my fault, I didn't know, similar to this situation.

And what sparked that thought for me with you about trust, trust with our coaches, right?

You said you were 16 when this happened?

- When this happened, no.

I was, in 2020, I was about 20 years old.

- Okay, but still, you know, you had been with him, you said though, for several years.

- Yeah, since before I was a teenager, you know?

- Right, and so my question there goes, or my thoughts goes to, you've known this person, they've likely become family.

You have a level of trust, and so do your parents.

And so when do we start to second guess or start to, you know, distrust the things that they give us, the advice that they're giving us, the recommendations that they're making.

And so my thought immediately went to, well, what else was he supposed to do?

And so when you talk about trust with your coaches, tell us what goes into that or what went into your mind at the time?

You said you didn't think nothing of it.

- I didn't.

- You just trusted this person.

- Yeah, I mean, honestly, I didn't think twice at the time of, you know, when that actually transpired.

You know, I was thinking I was taking a clean supplement, everything was gonna be fine, and it wasn't.

And it came down to trust, you know, it came down to just the hand to hand exchange.

And putting all of my trust in my coach at one of the biggest, it was really one of the biggest moments in my career to make my second Paralympic Games.

- So let's talk about the impact that that has had.

I believe you had to step back for a little over a year as a result, correct?

- Yeah, it was 16 months and that was reduced from four years.

I had to fight the case.

- Wow, wow.

And what would've four years done to your career?

- [laughs] Well, I wouldn't be competing right now, I could tell you that.

So I would still be out for another two years.

So I think it just depends, like for me, the impact was drastic at first.

You know, I'm a human, like of course I had negative thoughts, negative emotions.

It took me a while to get back to a hundred percent.

And over time, you know, I just had my support system, which is very important for any athlete, to help me get back to that point where, you know, you're 110%, you know, because ultimately both athletes should come back, I believe.

- I love that, I love that.

So what is your way back?

What does that look like for you?

What are you preparing for now and what's next?

- Well, right now I'm preparing for the next Paralympic Games, which, you know, we're in 2023, so that'll be 2024.

And that's, that'll be in Paris, France.

And I'm also competing before then at some big international competitions, world championships, hopefully.

You know, all this is barring that I make the team, of course, but world championships, we have Para Pans coming up actually in November of this year.

So, I mean, these are like really my first attempts at, or my first, barring that I make these teams, this will be the first time that I'll be able to compete internationally since my suspension.

- I love it.

Well, we're excited to see you get back on the field.

Track and field is your sport.

We're so excited to see you get back on that track.

And I'm hoping and praying for the best for you.

I think that sometimes we get, we step back a little bit, but only to come back stronger.

And so I believe that that'll be the case for you for sure.

- Most definitely, thank you.

- Thank you, thank you so much.

And we wish you the best and we will definitely keep track of your progress and where you go.

- Great, awesome.

- Thanks, Desmond.

- Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Black Issues Forum.

We'd like to invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

Thank you for watching, I'm Tina Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

- [Announcer] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina with support from the Z Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.