I'm Brenda Tremblay, and with my colleague, WXXI Beth Adams.

I am happy to welcome you to connections.

Today's connection was made 250 years ago this year.

On the 16th of December in 1775.

That's when a minister and his wife welcomed a new baby to their parish in Hampson, Hampshire, England.

They named her Jane and described her in a letter as a plaything for her sister Cassie, as well as a future companion.

That baby girl Jane Austen grew up to be.

All that and much more, including the author of six novels, thousands of letters, and iconic fictional characters who are still household names.

You could argue that Jane Austen was the greatest influencer of the 19th century, though she herself would likely blush.

It's such a modern Appalachian, Appalachian, and connection.

Today, we're going to mark the 250th birthday of Jane Austen, a literary icon who continues to entertain and delight and inspire for generations.

I'm so thrilled to be co-hosting with my fellow Jane Beth Adams of WXXI.

We're usually looking at each other through a long hallway and many windows, so it's nice to sit next to you for this hour.

I'm really excited about celebrating Jane Austen.

I want to start by welcoming our wonderful guests.

We have in studio today, Lindsay Warren Baker, the co-writer of Austens Pride, a new musical of Pride and Prejudice, which I understand has been performed on stages from Seattle to Saint Louis and, concert at Carnegie Hall.

Lindsay, you, along with Amanda Jacobs, coauthored the book, The Music, the lyrics.

Give us a quick description of this production.

Sure.

So this is an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice, but it is through the lens of Jane Austen herself as the writer revisiting her first, version of the story, which was called First Impressions.

And as she goes through the process, encouraged by her sister Cassandra to do so, she encounters her characters and starts making tweaks and changes and starts to come to, make some decisions about her own life and her own feeling and reconciling her past.

And ultimately, creates the novel that we know and love today.

So that's the short version with with song mother singing.

I'm sold and sold.

But you're not playing in Rochester yet.

We actually have had some previous incarnations in Rochester, but we are not here right now.

We're currently winding up a run at Saint Stages Saint Louis.

They play through this Sunday, and then in a couple of weeks they will begin a, short multi-city tour in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Wonderful.

Also in the studio with us today is Don Kellogg.

We're calling you a Jane Austen super fan.

Yes, thank you very much.

I've been a Jane Austen fan since I was like 11 years old.

I've been reading her stuff forever, and it's just it's part of the one of those pieces of literature that informs me really early on, you know, and so I, you know, still love her and still want to know more, even though there's not a lot more to learn.

But, you know, we're we're you know, we're just so much to absorb and love about her.

Fantastic.

And we're going to get more into our Jane Austen origins stories in a second.

Thank you both for being here.

And joining us remotely is another Austin super fan, Sherri Messer.

Sherri, good to have you on the show today.

Thank you so much.

It's wonderful to be amongst so many other Jane sites.

And finally, we're so happy to have with us Mary Mintz.

Mary is president of the Jane Austen Society of North America.

Welcome.

Thank you.

I'm happy to be here.

Nice to meet everyone.

Mary, for the uninitiated, what is the Jane Austen Society?

The Jane Austen Society of North America, which includes the United States and Canada and beyond.

We have international members as well.

Is, an organization founded in 1979 based on a British model to, pursue our interest in Jane Austen.

We, recognize her genius, and we study that genius.

We have more than 5000 members who are engaged in that, pastime.

Some are scholars and some are superfans and enthusiasts.

Like the ones you have here today.

Well, we're looking forward to hearing more about that, for sure.

And taking a deep dive into the books of Jane Austen.

We'll also have a brief quiz later on in the show to see how much you know, how many Austen quotes you can identify.

It's not an intelligence test.

It can be a Jane Austen fan.

And if you're not really a Jane Austen fan, or you're the kind of person that, like, walks through the door and someone else is watching the movie and you're like, well, we're hoping by the end of this hour we might be able to convert you to at least dip a toe into this world.

We'd love to hear from you.

And you can connect to connections and our show about Jane Austen in a number of ways.

You can call 844295 talk.

That's toll free.

844295 talk.

The local number in the 585 area code is (585) 263-9994, or you can email connections at Z dawg.

That's connections at WXXI talk or new.

We're streaming on WXXI news YouTube channel.

You can connect to us as well that way.

So.

Oh, wonderful.

Well, yes.

And I'd love to hear from our guests how and when you became an austinite.

We're calling it your Jane Austen origins story.

So, Mary, let me start with you.

Sometime between the ages of ten and 12.

I've read Pride and Prejudice.

My mother had, made me discard all young adult fiction and read only what she called classics.

So I read that one, but none of the rest.

I didn't fully appreciate it at that age.

But you can reread Jane Austen every year, and I've done that many times, and you grow to appreciate her.

But a lot of, the story just went by me.

I missed some of the humor.

What's the biting social commentary?

But I did enjoy the romantic story.

So you did not know at age ten that you would be the future president of the Jane Austen Society?

I had no I. Yeah, no idea whatsoever.

And then, when I was writing my master's thesis in Victorian literature, which way that I, escape my responsibility for writing a chapter of Weak West.

Let's finish off the Jane Austen novel I hadn't read.

So I was goofing off in graduate school.

Finishing Jane Austen.

I think she would approve.

Yeah.

John Kellogg, you mentioned a little bit during the intro that you were also quite young when you discovered Austen.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I have to say, I probably was more of a film thing because my parents had just gotten cable and I'm old.

And, they were I think it was on Showtime or something.

They were screening, the, the original film version of, Pride and Prejudice with Laurence Olivier.

And I had the biggest crush on Laurence Olivier.

And so, it was Pride and Prejudice with Greer Garson.

That was amazing.

You know, a really wonderful fun.

But not really close to the book.

There's those giant hoop skirts.

It's a giant, which I know totally, totally non.

Yes, absolutely.

But you know, and then I was like, oh, you know what?

I'm going to read the book.

And then I read that and Emma and, and more and more and I just, I just love going and I love going back to her.

I love reading her, you know, when I was young.

But having the totally different perspective when you're older, when you're, you know, when you're like, looking for love and then when you found love and you know, just those different stages of life, you know, she can take you can take her at every one of those stages and still be fulfilled.

Absolutely.

Well, let me go to my other Austin super fan, Cherie Mazor.

When did you become a fan?

I've known you for a long time, but I don't think I ever asked you this.

I think it was also probably 11 or 12, and my point of entry was a different book.

A book called Upper Road Slowly by Irene Hunt, that was a young adult book, won the Newbery Award for children's literature in 1967.

And in that book, Julie Trilling, who is the heroine, is sent to live with her old maid.

And in the country after the death of her mother and, the old maid aunt was the schoolteacher and the little one room schoolhouse in the country, and was also a huge Jane Austen fan and would talk frequently about, you know, rereading and, Pride and Prejudice.

This young Julie is also, you know, kind of catches on to this, although she feels that she's kind of a.

Little bit, of the outcast because she's the girl living in the country of about ten years.

She, references her schoolmates who didn't appreciate Jane Austen.

And she says that's that's indicates to me such immaturity.

And her other family members kind of tease her about, you know, being the next generation of person to read Jane Austen in their family.

And that was such I have to discover this Jane Austen person.

And so, of course, I had to pick up Pride and Prejudice, because that's what Julie was reading in the book.

And that's a day at the races right there as one.

It all started, and I think my next book was Sense and Sensibility.

And again, I'm reading this as a, you know, 1213 year old.

I'm latching on to the history because I love to read historical fiction.

So I'm I'm connecting with Regency era history.

I'm focusing on things like the fashion, and I'm not quite understanding a lot of the humor yet.

Or not, I'm loving the idea that there's romance, but I'm not quite understanding the subtleties and and the other intricacies that she weaves into her story so beautifully.

But what hooked me was, you know, the passion and the ideas.

But then also her beautiful use of language and how she uses language so lovingly.

And that always would send me to the dictionary because, you know, in the olden days, we didn't have phones to look up word.

And, you know, I would have the two of us and we went to the dictionary, but I was always reading with a dictionary next to me, looking up all these references.

So that was my point of entry.

And it's been nonstop ever since.

Imagine that kids.

We actually did leave through hard copy dictionaries to look up words.

I can attest to that at Lindsay Warren Baker, how about you?

You you've crafted a large part of your career around Jane Austen.

Where was the entry point for you?

It actually was, later than the other guests.

For me, it was the film adaptations that were coming out in the 90s.

And I think maybe the first one I saw was Emma with Gwyneth Paltrow.

And then there was Mansfield Park that came out that, of course, now I know people have opinions about, and, and, and then my I think my mom got me a set of VHS tapes and one of The persuasion with Amanda Root and Ciaran Hinds was in that.

Oh my gosh.

So that was my way.

And I've always been a big fan of costume drama.

Yay!

You know, PBS's masterpiece, all that good stuff.

So that was really my way in.

And then when, my friend and co-writer Amanda Jacobs, we just happened kind of synchronicity to realize that we both were interested in Jane Austen.

And she had this idea to turn Pride and Prejudice into a musical.

And so then from there, it was like, okay, BBC mini series and reading the novel, and the rest is history.

And that was 25 years ago.

So what are the challenges of making a Jane Austen novel into a musical?

There's so much there.

And trying to decide on the, a few things, trying to decide what are the important points that are necessary to telling the story.

Where to take our artistic license, because it's a totally different genre, right?

Being on stage, is different than film.

You know, it's different than than a novel, obviously.

But also how to remain within the spirit of the show so that it appeals both to Jane ites who are very devoted to her and her legacy as well as folks who are Jane rights and Austin fans because of film and just appealing to the contemporary audience that's going to be seeing it and theater audiences who may not give a fig about Jane Austen, but maybe they'll find their way into her because of going to see a stage show and a musical.

Well, I want to talk more about the film adaptations and some of the opinions that you allude to.

But what was your origin story?

Well, I'm going to leave you all in astonishment.

I was 33 years old the first time I read Jane Austen.

Don't ask me how I think I escaped it, because in A.P.

English, in Saint Mary's High School in Lancaster, New York, Dennis, ours was our teacher, and he gave us things to read, like, the Red Badge of Courage and the Heart of Darkness.

And and so that's the track I was put on by him.

And I had a friend, some of you might know him.

The late, film theater critic Bill Klein, who looked at me one day and he said, you're a Jane Austen fan.

I said, I am.

He said, yeah, the BBC miniseries was about to come out, and before it did, I read Pride and Prejudice and I was transfixed.

I think in one week I read all six, all six novels right after that, in rapid succession.

And and I haven't stopped since.

I've been reading a lot of fan fiction, too.

Yeah.

Lately that the prequels and the sequels and the Pride and Prejudice variations, which I admit that's my bias, is pride.

Pride and Prejudice, Lindsay, which I think maybe you would say to have any of you read the fanfiction?

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

No.

Do I detect a, like you're not interested or you just haven't gotten around to it?

I just well, a little bit of both.

A part of me is like, oh, do I really want to dip my toe in the water and see how they, they, their take on it?

Or do I just want to live the Jane Austen purity life?

I don't know.

You know, maybe I'll get there.

Maybe it'll convert me.

Yeah.

For me, it's like not wanting to leave the characters.

I want to spend more time with the characters in these different plot twist twists and how they navigate those.

I've also, and even Jane Austen, had an imagined life after life for her characters.

For the two main characters in Pride and Prejudice Elizabeth Bennet and her sister Jane Bennet, she writes to her sister Cassandra that she's going to a certain art exhibition, and she's going to look for their portraits.

Except for her, they live down as well.

Fanfiction is, as you say, a way in which her work slowed down for us.

Very interesting.

You're hearing the conversation about Jane Austen in Big Surprise.

This is connections on WXXI.

I'm Brenda Tremblay, and I'm Beth Adams, and we are, wanting to know your opinion as well.

If you have thoughts about Jane Austen and, you want to chime in or ask a question, you can call 844295 to like 844295 to L.K.

you can also email connections at Cyborg Connections at Zorg, or you'll find us on YouTube livestreaming the sexy news, news YouTube channel.

And we will have a short quiz coming up in just a few minutes.

We'll hear some clips from famous novels and see how much you guys know about Jane Austen.

In the meantime, I would love to hear your thoughts about why you think Jane Austen's work.

Her novels, still appeal and captivate large audiences around the world.

More than 200 years later.

Her characters seem so relevant, so real.

How?

How does this happen?

And you don't you don't necessarily see this happening with a lot of other artists.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

Don, you think you look like you're eager to answer that because, like Shakespeare, you know, we look at Shakespearean characters and we can relate to some of them in a lot of ways.

And I think when you read Jane Austen, it's the same thing.

You you can see a bit of yourself and Emma, you know, when she's like, you know, gossiping around you can you can for me, I love the, the, the relationships between siblings that that she writes about so vividly because Jane Austen loved her, her siblings, and especially her sister Cassandra.

I have a sister, and those are very real relationship.

So, I mean, they're the things that we can't identify with so much in this country, certainly primogeniture and stuff like that.

But certainly those relationships and and just the for want of, of love in your life and, and good fortune and all that kind of stuff with the things that we all desire.

So that, to me brings her to she's transcended, transcendent.

She transcends time for me.

That's why she's so adaptable.

And in other like with clueless and things like that, where they do use, her work as a basis.

So what I was going to ask Mary.

Yeah.

Mary mince what it what is the modern appeal of Jane Austen?

Well, I think it's just as the previous guest said, I think it's human nature to want to make a connection, especially a lasting romantic connection to find love in one's life.

And all of her novels offer that as a possibility.

There obstacles in the way, but eventually two of the main characters find each other and learn to understand and relate to each other.

And I think it's just human nature for us to be able to identify with that marriage plot or that romantic, plot.

And when we go back to the novels to reread them, we become aware of other characteristics, the real ism that you mentioned, the fact that, she has a really wicked sense of humor, the fact that she deals with social and economic issues because beyond the love for awesome women in the novels, for many of the women in the novels had to marry for economic security.

And so that's a major, almost hidden issue that a first time reader of Jane Austen may not catch on to.

And she also, has in her background the Napoleonic Wars and such major issues of the day as enslaved people, their ablutions and at least two of her novels to that, predicament and, that terrible, aspect of history.

So she's really rich and really complex in many ways that we don't particularly notice the first time we read her.

And fortunately for modern readers, contemporary readers, for us, this is an age in which scholarship on Jane Austen is really flourishing.

You can find out more about that by going to the Jane Austen Society website, which is J.S.

in a jazz.org.

Mary, for someone who hasn't read Jane Austen or has never, you know, taken a trip into her world, where would you start?

Which novel would you say?

It's probably the best place to start.

Oh, I agree with everyone.

It's Pride and Prejudice.

That's the novel on which Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet fall in love, and it's, led many people to fall in love with Jane Austen's novels.

You can't go wrong with any of them, but I would definitely prepare, Pride and Prejudice first.

Mansfield Park is probably the only one that I wouldn't begin with, though it remains the favorite novel of some Jane Austen readers.

It has the most moral complexity and, maybe a little more challenging to read for that reason.

There are also annotated versions of these novels where you can read the novel on the left side and then see notes on the right side, which are really helpful.

Explains to you like what a barouche box is.

And, you know, just like all these weird things that we have no idea what they're talking about, it's here.

And then that's sort of wonderful.

I can't endorse a particular publisher, but there's several out there that are really helpful, and I think some of them are not heavy academic tomes.

They're more maybe user friendly.

If you just want to have a quick glimpse at something or a description of something, right?

That's correct.

Yes.

And it's it's okay with the Jane Austen Society.

We're not stuffy at all.

If someone happens to see one of the film adaptations or this, musical Pride and Prejudice and then says, oh, I really like that movie, or I really like that musical, I want to read the book.

That's a perfectly acceptable way to learn about Jane Austen.

We welcome everyone who appreciates what we're hearing from Aaron on YouTube, who says his Russian Jewish grandma changed her name from Zeppelin to Bennet because she wanted a more anglicized name, and she was in love with Jane Austen.

That's amazing.

It's a story that's, And we also heard from Sue, who wanted to know if you are all familiar with the movie that was shown recently here in Rochester, the Little Theater Jane Austen wrecked my life.

Yes, I wasn't able to go, but I did hear about it.

Yes, same with me.

I have not seen it yet, but it's on the list.

It's well worth it.

Is it good?

Definitely worth it, I recommend.

I don't think it's playing at the little now.

I don't know if it will come back.

It's probably streaming somewhere, I would think.

Yeah, yeah.

As, Sherry.

Mary, have you guys seen it?

I haven't, it hasn't played on it yet, but I'm going to be on the lookout for it.

Okay.

And many nights have seen it.

Sorry for the crosstalk.

It's okay.

We're also excited, you know?

Seriously.

Let's, take a short quiz.

And after a short break here on connections, and if you would like to chime in about Jane Austen, ask a question of our guests.

The number again.

844295 talk.

You'll find us on YouTube.

Just look for sexy news or send an email to connections at xorg.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson, coming up in our second hour, we bring back a recent conversation with the great Steve Jordan.

Maybe nobody in the greater Rochester area.

The finger Lakes region has restored more old windows and historic homes than Steve Jordan, and he's got a new book to help all of us take a look at our houses, especially if we live in an old one, and figure out how do we save this thing?

How do we improve it?

We'll talk about it next.

Our.

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This is connections.

I'm Brenda Tremblay, happy to be co-hosting with my friend and colleague and fellow Gina Beth Adams.

And in the studio you're hearing the voices of Jane Austen super fan Don Kellogg and co-writer of Austin Pride, Austin's Pride, a new musical of Pride and Prejudice.

Lindsay Warren Baker on the phone.

You're hearing super fan Sherry Missouri and, Mary Mintz, president of the Jane Austen Society of North America.

And we're going to take a little bit of a quiz now.

Okay.

This is not, you know, it'll be fun.

Yeah, it'll be fun, or else.

So, so you'll hear it, buddy.

Very, very brief quotes from Jane Austen's novels.

And the challenge for you is to identify which novel and perhaps which character, and we can take our time here.

We don't have to blaze through all of these.

I will say to, we searched high and low for someone with a British accent.

Accent at high, and we actually ended up turning to a friend of mine who lives in London.

He's a British stand up comic, a character actor, Adam Levine.

He's wonderful.

He lives in London.

Right on Regent's Canal.

And he threw a blanket over his head to record these for me.

And you may actually hear ducks quacking in the background.

So, Right, so here we go.

Cut!

Number one.

It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.

All right.

Should we all say it?

Yeah, yeah.

One, two.

Three.

Pride and prejudice.

All right, let's go.

Number two.

I cannot make speeches.

If I loved you less, I might be able to talk about it more.

But do you know what I am?

You hear nothing but truth from me.

I blamed you and lectured you, and you have borne it.

Is no other woman in England would have borne it.

And we left off a word there, because it would have given it away.

Any guesses?

Lindsay knows.

Yes.

It's from.

Oh, do you want to say it, Mary?

Oh, it doesn't matter.

I'm happy for Lindsay to get first.

Or we could get together.

Why don't you say the title and I'll say the character.

Okay, so the title is Emma, and the character is Mr. Knightley.

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

Excellent.

You guys are doing great at this.

All right.

This might be a little harder.

Ready?

Life seems, but a quick succession of busy.

Nothing's.

Sherry, do you know.

I do know that.

Is it north north thing or close.

Anybody.

Mansfield Park.

Yes.

Mansfield Park.

That reminds me, one summer as a project, I decided to read all of the Jane Austen novels and then see all the film adaptations I could.

This was before Cable and Demand.

This is ancient history now.

So I go to the library and I would get out.

And what was fascinating to me with Mansfield Park was reading the novel and then getting the movies, including that Miramax movie, which was so sexy.

I mean, that some of the scenes were just like, so over the top.

And it was that was the first time, I think, in my adult life I realized the, poetic, what's the word I'm looking for?

Just the lights.

Yes, yes, yes, the possibilities of poetic license.

Okay, so what we just heard was life seems but a quick succession of busy nothings from Mansfield Park.

Here's another tricky one.

No man is offended by another man's admiration of the woman he loves.

It is the woman only who can make it a torment.

All right.

It's a great line, isn't it?

I'm doing, Northanger Abbey.

Yes, yes, course a good thing.

All right.

We have a couple more here.

Here we go.

Number.

The one that's going to make me swoon.

This might be the one with the ducks.

In vain have I struggled.

It will not do.

My feelings will not be repressed.

You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love.

Shall we say it together?

Yes.

Mr.. Mr.. Mr.. Darcy, I didn't prejudice.

It does make the moment.

I think that's the most romantic proposal ever.

Well, yeah.

You know, and, you know, think about Colin Firth coming out of that pond.

There you go.

I try not to, but you.

Absolutely.

Okay, we have two more here.

Three more.

Okay, here we go.

The next one.

You pierce my soul.

I am half agony, half hope.

I have loved none but you.

Let's give our phone guests a turn here.

Oh, so we have.

Oh, yes.

Sherry.

Monsieur.

It's, Sherry, do you know?

Or Mary Alice?

Yes.

That's Wentworth in persuasion.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

One of the best love letters of all.

Oh, my gosh, it's amazing.

No.

Yeah, yeah.

Something I've written that some people think that letter that Wentworth writes to an in persuasion is a little over the top.

Think even Jane Austen was pushing the limits of what was realistic.

You know what I mean, I don't care.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

I for me.

All right.

We have two more here.

My idea of good company is the company of clever, well-informed people who have a great deal of conversation.

That is what I call good company.

You are mistaken, said he gently.

That is not good company.

That is the best we've got, Lindsay reciting the words.

Yes, that is also persuasion.

Yeah, that's Mr. Elliott and and Mr. Elliott is a bad guy.

Well.

Okay.

One more.

We have one more quote here.

It is not time or opportunity that is to determine intimacy is a disposition alone.

Seven years would be insufficient to make some people acquainted with each other.

And seven days are more than enough for others.

Now, I know Don knows the answer, but I'd love to give a sherry a chance to get in here.

Sherry?

I think she might be frozen.

Okay, our connection to Sherry is a little stuck.

No, sorry about that.

That's all right.

So there you go.

She got it together.

Sentence a so you guys did also.

Well, think Marianne's says bad, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So, thanks to my friend Aaron Levine, I've been trying to get him to come to the Rochester Fringe Fest to offer his stand up comedy show.

He goes to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival every year.

So, Aaron, if you happen to see this, just come to Rochester.

You already have a local fan club.

Know, you are hearing a conversation about Jane Austen?

This year is the 250th anniversary of her birth.

There are balls and parties and book clubs and celebrations all over the world and on connections.

Today, our guests include Don Kellogg and, Sherry, Missouri.

Mary Mintz, president of the Jane Austen Society of North America.

And Lindsay Warren Baker, co-writer of Austin's Pride, a musical of Pride and Prejudice.

And we would love to hear from you if you have a comment.

8442952844295 talk I. Lindsay, I have a question for you as a, as a playwright and a student of Jane Austen, as you know, her work has inspired, I think, you know, a lot of other work that I would think of as a modern twist on her Regency world, like Bridgerton, the Netflix smash series.

There are purists among us who I think, like Don was saying earlier, you know, stick with the original or the original tone and the work and others like to kind of broaden their horizons.

What do you think about the more modernized and sometimes sexualized interpretations of Regency storytelling?

Well, I, I think that, as someone who found their way to Jane Austen through those interpretations, particularly the, romantic Mansfield Park, before I knew what it actually was.

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with it if it takes you to her, you know, and yes, of course, then you're going to have opinions about which adaptations you like and which adaptations you don't like.

There are some modern contemporary adaptations of the novels that I really love.

There's a very low budget Pride and Prejudice that's contemporary and takes place at Brigham Young University, and it's amazing and it's silly.

But it's a great film and you can find it somewhere streaming.

But then I also have very strong opinions about the current persuasion that came out on Netflix.

I just rewatched it recently and was like, oh yeah, no, I have very strong opinions about that film.

So, you know, to each their own, but I think if it draws you into Jane Austen's genius, then what's what's the harm?

It's showing a love of of her.

But, and each person who's doing a derivative in some way, shape or form has to decide for themselves what their intent and their purpose is and how much of her spirit they want to retain.

Yeah.

Well-Put Mary Mintz, what say you?

Well, I totally agree with Lindsay about this.

I don't care, as I said earlier and and the Jane Austen's society doesn't care how people discover Jane Austen as long as they find her, because it finding her will enrich your life.

And, I think many of those sorts of adaptations, do make an effort to have authenticity, or they do take off, authenticity.

So they might exaggerate Regency dress for fact, for instance.

But watching something like that means that you can still learn about Regency dress and perhaps about Regency history at the same time.

So all of it makes for a fitting background for an introduction to Jane Austen.

Sherry Messer we had a little technical glitch and we lost you for a bit there on on teams.

So you're back with us on the phone now.

What do you think about the modern takes on, Austin type stories?

Well, I think it keeps the interest alive.

And if that becomes a point of entry for people to enjoy the novels and go back to the novels, I think that's a great point of entry.

I would not want to think that is someone's only view of Jane Austen.

There was that mash up that came a couple of years ago, the graphic novel that was, you know, Jane Austen meeting Abraham Lincoln had her a little bit, you know, out there, it's a little bit out there.

But if that becomes that point of entry, that inspiration for someone to discover her, what it's like to read, a Regency era novel by someone who was living in that era and who was someone, you know, written by someone who was truly a woman of her times.

I think it was Mary who mentioned early on that, almost all of her heroines were women who needed to marry out of economic necessity.

And Jane herself was someone who chose not to marry.

You know, she had, a brief engagement, and then she had another letter of proposal, and she was in her late 20s, which would have, you know, made her already a hardened spinster.

And, you know, she made her choice to live her life independently and focus on her writing and the fact that, you know, there's only six published works and a few unpublished works that became the focus of her 41 years, and the idea that she wanted to live her own life on her own terms in a time when other women weren't doing that, and she was writing about women who had to not to do that, I think is really admirable.

And it's, you know, again, these modern adaptations gets more readers to read the original work.

And I think it's okay.

I'm wondering what you all think is her darkest novel.

And, Sherry, let's start with you.

Like, which one of her novels do you find the most serious or the I don't know, the darkest?

I think Mary already referenced Mansfield Park because, you know, it just has, you know, that kind of deeper kind of connection to it that isn't as as enjoyable, perhaps, as Pride and Prejudice is, where there's just, you know, a smile on every page.

But it does have sort of a different depth to it that, has a little bit of a darker side to it.

And what about you, Mary?

What would be on your list?

I agree with Sherry.

It's definitely Mansfield Park.

Went into central characters.

Sir Thomas Bertram and his son actually go to the West Indies, and he's checking on his business interests there.

So he's gone for an extended period of time because he has to make an overseas voyage.

Contemporary readers of Mansfield Park would have understood that he was checking on plantations with enslaved labor.

So that cast a kind of pall.

That novel, I think, and rightly so.

And then the main character, Fanny, tries to talk with him about slave free when he returns, and she reports that everyone was silent, when she tried to had that conversation.

And there's enormous wealth behind Mansfield Park, the imaginary fictional Mansfield Park.

So it's probably ill gotten.

Well, for that reason.

So there is also a heightened awareness of the issues around enslaved people through the very title.

Lord Mansfield was, high level judge in Britain who presided over a famous case that, I'm going to oversimplify and say the question.

He he dealt with more than one case, but the question mainly before him, for which he was most famous, was that, if, say, someone from the American colonies was accompanied by an enslaved person when he visited Britain, would that person have been free in the UK where slavery was banned or not?

So just the title and the location for that novel.

Also, brings forward the issues around enslaved persons.

I have never seen or heard of thought about it in that context.

So I want to go back and reread it and look for those.

What about you, Dawn?

Well, for me, Northanger Abbey has its dark points too, because, you know, obviously you have that first part, which is light and lovely and bath and then you have, when she when Catherine gets to, to, Northanger Abbey and she's, she thinking in her brain that, that the owner of the, of the estate has, has bumped off his wife and so she's it's sort of gothic novel.

It's her little foray into gothic, fiction, but it all ends well anyway.

So I think she was having fun, maybe teasing the gothic fan.

Exactly.

With that one.

Yeah, yeah.

And what about you, Lindsay?

So this isn't necessarily dark, but I find one of the most, I think, the most mature story of all of them is persuasion.

And that's one that I have an affinity for.

Because it's revisiting a young love.

And the characters are there for, you know, coming at their second chance with, eight and a half years of distance and time passing between them.

And there's a lot and there's so much that's unsaid in that one where they're not actually talking to each other.

And when they do talk to each other, it's just everything that is, accessible, socially acceptable and implied until they can finally reveal their true feelings.

And I think that might be one of the reasons why that letter is the way it is, because he's finally able to say everything that he's feeling, where they haven't really been able to talk to each other.

And they're very human.

They're very human in their emotions and feelings about each other and why they feel the way they do about each other.

So I have a really strong affinity for that novel and that story.

For me, that's a large part of Austen's genius is her, you know, her ability not only to, understand the human condition, but understand relationships the way she did and then, you know, started to write Pride and Prejudice, I believe, when she was 19 years old and the first, foray into that, which, of course, 19 then isn't 19 now, but I often find myself wondering, where did that gift come from?

You know, she's writing in this rural small town in north Hampshire, with a father who's a rector, and it's very, willing to let her read a lot of the books in his library.

She had no real formal education.

It just astounds me.

Her brilliance, her genius.

Yeah.

Mary might be able to talk about this more, too, as the scholar that she is.

But she did have insight because one of her brothers was adopted by a wealthy family member.

So she.

And because her father was, pastor, they had access to all the different classes.

Right?

So she, she was able to experience the world in a way that we might not think she would have, but because of those certain circumstances, I think she did get to know more.

And her mother was also of a higher class, and her father actually was too.

So, socially?

Yes.

Socially.

Yes.

Well, PBS recently, she was such a she, she was also such a reader.

Yeah.

And my mom always said that the best writers were the ones who were the most ardent readers.

The fact that she was allowed to read, and maybe just read beyond her own, her own depth of understanding to some degree, that's how she became self-educated and maybe have that different eye of the world because she was being not only allowed, but encouraged to read the books that were accessible to her at that time.

Yeah.

And she was hugely influenced by Fanny Burney, who came before her.

And she was a writer of the Georgian period who also sort of lived in bath.

She was she was born in 1752 and died around 1840.

But she wrote vividly about, about, the life in the Georgian period and obviously Austen's Regency.

But that's where, Austen gets Pride and Prejudice.

The title Pride and Prejudice from is one of Bernie's novels called Cecelia.

And as you've read it.

Yeah, yeah.

And I and I remember when I was living in London, which I did for 13 years, I the, one of the theater companies mounted a production of A Busy day, which is one of Fanny Bernie's plays.

And it was it didn't last long was more what I would consider museum theater, but it was on the West End for a little bit, starring Stephanie Beecham.

And it was really interesting.

The thing about, Bernie is she writes very lengthy and dramatic and, you know, doesn't it doesn't have the realism that Jane Austen has.

But Jane Austen loved Fanny Burney.

So that's a great resource to, you know, to go back and read some of Fanny Bernie's works.

Well, we have another connections question here.

And why is maybe this is for Mary.

Why is this such a girl thing?

Are there any men who read Jane Austen and join these groups?

Thank you.

Excellent question.

Mary, can you give us the bird's eye view there?

Well, it is an excellent question, and I don't have a good answer.

I'll have to say that, somehow contemporary taste has changed because throughout the 19th century, there were many male readers for Jane Austen.

She wasn't exclusively a women's writer.

And, then in the early 20th century, there are lots of reports about how soldiers from what is now the UK, who were fighting in the trenches in war, won escape from that horrible, miserable existence.

They were living in the trenches by reading Jane Austen and more than one British prime minister, all of them male up to Margaret Thatcher, has been reported as reading Jane Austen.

Sometimes while they were waiting for election results.

So I, I can't exactly account for, why she's become more of a bonnet reader.

Than a derby hat or and and I think, if more men were introduced to her, they would also see the light, so to speak.

And we do have men in the society, and they're quite dedicated and quite, interested and or in all kinds of ways.

I will say if, and this isn't to, like, toot my own horn, but I will say what's been really fascinating about the audiences in Saint Louis when we were there for the, previews, an opening was how many men got liked the show and liked the story.

And I think that so there's something to a testament of like, she is accessible and it depends on what it is you're interested in.

Look at it.

But they can see themselves in it too.

They can see a mr. Bennet with five daughters.

Right.

They can see, you know, that there's the military aspect of the the Red coats from the soldiers, and they know a mr. Wickham.

Right?

They they know they know the, you know, the upper class.

Darcy's and Bingley is right.

These people do exist.

So sometimes they have to be kind of dragged as a date, maybe to some of these things.

But once they're there, they do they do find their way in England, find interesting things about it.

I was rewatching, one of the I forget which one the other day, and my husband walked by and said, wow, she really had opinions about the upper class, didn't she?

Yes, she sure did.

Well, there was a book and movie that came out in the early 2000 called The Jane Austen Book Club, and it was about a book club that you know, that was their preference.

And of all the members, I think there were six members and only one was male.

And in the book and I haven't read them in a while, and we're seeing the movie as well.

Each character was sort of associated with one of the novels, and the only male was the one connected to Northanger Abbey, and that was the one with the more of a connection to the the royal military, kind of based on her brother's experiences.

So you know that, again, it's that takes the story theme, that idea of connecting with a man in the military.

And with that, you know, men are more connected to military history, perhaps, again, that that's the point of entry.

It's okay.

Okay.

We are going to wrap up our conversation in just a moment, but I just want to do a really quick survey here.

And that is your favorite movie adapter version of a Jane Austen novel, like if or maybe two.

Lindsay.

Oh, gosh, of course you start with me.

Well, I will say that, Oh, I like so many of them.

I know, but the Amanda ruse here in persuasion is really, really good.

Okay, done.

I love Emma Thompson's take on sense and Sensibility.

I just think that is one of the most, accessible versions of that.

I just I really love that.

And I also, it's not a movie.

It's a mini series.

But I do think that Pride and Prejudice 1995 is the most definitive version of that.

It takes its time.

It's wonderfully done, and my friend was the producer on it, so I know so, so you know, he used to keep his BAFTA in the kitchen.

It was hilarious.

But anyway.

But yeah, those are my two favorite Mary I totally agree with Lynn.

Susan.

Yay!

I mean, she's saying she's named the best ones and I'll just add one more.

It's the version of Emma starring Kate Beckinsale.

Oh yes, I'm quite fond of that.

Okay, Sherry, I agree with Emma.

Thompson and Sense and Sensibility and also the BBC mini series of Pride and Prejudice, largely because the relationship and the interaction between Colin Firth and the woman who plays Elizabeth.

Jennifer, the two of them together, their interaction, I thought, was just so, pristine to the knowledge that's the right way for it.

Especially her.

When I hear Jennifer Alia's voice, that's who I kind of project into the word.

Really written word.

Same here.

We're all nodding.

Yeah, well, before we wrap up the hour, I would like our guests to, tell us how they might celebrate Jane Austen's 250th birthday on December 16th.

Quick answers, if you could, Lindsay.

Hopefully with, Austin's Pride on Broadway on food.

She talks about food in her novels.

I'm going to create some of those recipes.

Sherry.

It's also Beethoven's 255th birthday on the same day.

So hopefully rereading Pride and Prejudice and listening to some Beethoven and Mary finally, 10s, please.

Oh, I'd like to be in Lindsay's audience.

Justice society, thanks to our wonderful guests, Mary Mintz, Lindsay Warren Baker, Dawn Kellogg, Sherry Messer, and my co-host Brenda Trombley.

Thank you for being here.

And thanks to everyone for tuning in.

Another hour of connections is next.

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