Coney Island, the world's greatest fun frolic with its beach miles long all peppered with people.

The place where merriment is king.

I got lost in Coney Island and I was only four years old.

Well, for many years I would hear her talk about Coney Island, and particularly if we had relatives or friends that would come and she would, comment on, Oh, what I went through that day.

I looked around and I didn't see her in and out of the water.

I didn't know if she was in the water.

I did, and I said, mom, why do you keep talking about that?

Forget it.

And she said, I'm going to tell you something, little girl.

She said, someday you're going to be a mother.

And when you become a mother, I hope you don't have to go looking for a lost child.

Well, I grew up on Wylie Avenue.

It's the Lower Hill.

We attended a, a school.

The Saint Peter's Catholic School, and most of us were, of Italian ethnic.

The Lower Hill District, as we called it, which was the area, around Mercy Hospital in both directions.

Pretty much from the Boulevard of the Allies, all the way up to, Fifth Avenue.

And while there were no boundary lines there, it was interesting.

Upon reflection, I did not think of it at the time that, it was almost a kind of a quasi segregation.

So I grew up in a very close, community at birth.

Everybody had the same background.

My parents were immigrants.

However, my father had the advantage of being practically raised in the United States.

He was placed in the care of an aunt.

However, he had an attachment to Italy.

And, he continued to go back and forth, back and forth and unfortunately, the time that he did go back, we were at war and, my father being, an a citizen of both countries, was pulled in by the Italian army.

And he did four years in the Italian Army.

After the war, they were married.

Both my parents were honest, decent people.

They were strict, but they were loving and they were kind.

We didn't have anything, but we had love.

My mother always made certain we had enough to eat.

My father worked every day.

What little money he made, he provided for us.

And, I felt very close to my family.

Primarily, I wanted to help, my family, I thought I needed a job.

I knew I couldn't afford going to college, and, I made inquiry everywhere, and I thought it would be wonderful if I could get a political job, because there were many people in the community who were working for the city.

And I thought, well, how do you do that?

I thought, well, the best way to do it, is to show that I'm interested and promoting voters.

Then what I did, I went out and registered.

I mean, I wasn't, of age to vote, but I was out registering people to vote.

I believe that I did register about 150 voters.

As I recall, in those years, some of the women that did break through, so to speak.

And I remember, a few of them quite well.

Rita Wilson Kane was a powerhouse of the Democratic Party.

Sophie Masloff.

These were dear friends and people that I came to know and love very much.

They did break through with politics.

And then there were a couple of other women on Pittsburgh City Council.

I remember Michelle Madoff and so on.

So the women that broke through to a great extent, with whom you became familiar and who made the newspapers and the headlines.

They did so largely through political doorways they entered in that arena.

If they were just, less aggressive, more placid and submissive, they probably would not have made those breakthroughs in hostile kinds of endeavors.

My neighbor was Frank Ambrose, but everyone called him Bangie and course everybody would be curious to know why.

Well, I was told that when Bangie he was a young man and he was studying the violin, he would bang on the floor in this tent, and the lower floor gave him the name Bangie.

They had younger children that I would babysit.

I did a lot of babysitting.

I worked at a pharmacy.

He knew I was looking for a job.

And he said to me one day, you know, there's an opening in the detective bureau in the Missing Persons Bureau because one of the women who had that job was off.

She was ill and she was off.

So he says, we can fit you in there primarily, for a period of time.

And that was the beginning.

Well, it was a kind of a dreary day.

And it was.

I could remember that it was starting to sprinkle, but we continued walking and he continued, insisting that I would lie.

He kept trying to give me courage.

And as I, you know, I had butterflies in my stomach.

And but I continued walking with him.

And then all of a sudden I see a, a lot of motorcycles.

And I look at this old building, it looked like it was made cave in.

And then I saw this uniform and it dash out, and I was terrified.

But I was in awe because, you know, seeing these big police officers.

Here I was a little bit of a thing, you know?

and I was thinking, what am I doing?

You know?

I was confused.

Perplexed.

I didn't know what was happening, but nonetheless, we got in there and Bangie was so firm, and knew what he was doing.

And we waited for an elevator, which never showed up, and we walked up and walked into the Missing Persons Bureau.

I was shocked when we opened the door and there were about 4 or 5 women, big hats sitting there, and they didn't say a word to me.

They just stared at me.

I think they were under the impression that Bangie was my father, and he was bringing in a little runaway.

They were looking at me as a runaway.

They had no idea that I was being brought there to work.

I was only 19 and I wore heels those days, and it was a cement floor.

And I could hear the click, click, click.

And I stopped.

I didn't want to walk anymore.

And I stood there with Bangie, and then all of a sudden, a woman shows up.

Frank.

I thought, oh, she doesn't know his name is Bangie.

Frank, how are you?

And he said, Mary, how are you doing?

I thought, oh, he knows her good.

We walked over to her office, a little office, she said.

He said, This is Therese Rocco.

She's going to be working here in the absence of Kate Bumcore.

She looked at me and she looked at Frank and said, Frank, she's too young.

She doesn't belong here.

But Frank said, she belongs here.

Now, the reason Frank had so much clout was not because he was a politician.

Or that he found jobs for people, but he was a personal friend of the governor.

Lawrence.

And I knew he was in my corner, and she knew I was going to be working there.

From what I believe my mom used to tell us is that when Theresa was working with my grandmother, it took them a while to get on a good working relationship.

But then after working with Therese for so long, quickly developed a great relationship.

And she actually treated Therese like a daughter.

Since she only had the boys, she kind of took her under her wing and treated her like her daughter.

Lieutenant O'Toole, introduced me at roll call, and, I was received magnificently.

The men waved to me and, smiled and, I felt good.

I felt, well, I I'm over another hurdle, but I went past all these women and all they did was stare.

Not one of them made me feel comfortable.

Although I must say that many of the other women, were accepting me primarily because I would extend myself in every way I could to help them.

Well, there were letters that we in the city would receive.

The mayor's office would receive from all parts of the country.

And these letters would go to the mayor, and he would refer them to missing persons.

And Mary took an interest in every one of these letters, and assigned each letter to one individual who worked.

It was very obvious the other women resented this.

They didn't think that this should be a part of their duties.

However, I enjoyed it.

Mary was the one that impressed me the most.

I watched her as she would dig into the directories and and I, and I was doing very similar things with the letters, and I was succeeding in finding people.

And I was loving it and loving to become a good investigator.

But, you know, when I say I did this, there were other women who were doing the same.

I'm not going to give myself all the credit because they were doing the same, but probably not going as far as I did.

When we returned to the missing persons, I was given a place to sit, a desk, and I recall Mary coming over with reports and said, I've put these in alphabetical order.

However, I decided to read most of them, and, I was astounded to read about what was going on with children.

I couldn't believe things.

Children as young as I was reading.

We were staying away from home three and four days.

I couldn't believe, how some of them were being abused.

Some of them were being abused by their own parents.

And I was in a state of shock.

But I continued to read until eventually I did put them all in order, but that was my introduction to what I would be working with if I were working in that department.

One day, Captain Joseph Flynn, contacted Mary O'Rourke and said, is it possible you could release Therese to come and take the statement?

And that was the beginning.

In typing these cases, I learned a lot about the departments.

I was, consuming a lot of information that involved in the science burglaries.

Yes.

It, expanded my knowledge.

Her role, was, to oversee missing persons, but they were often other, commanders or lieutenants would often count on her to put her, in other roles as decoys in particular.

I think a lot of it was because she didn't have that cop, appearance.

And that's why she was so successful at it.

And she wasn't afraid to do it, either.

I recall the first time I performed as decoy.

I was told that I was going to go out and look for a Masher.

A Masher?

You know, I didn't want to say.

Whats a Masher?

I was trying to, conceal, my ignorance about, you know, the the language.

And I eventually learned it was somebody who was, you know, that was that, harm a young woman.

And we went to a theater, and, the Masher was going to come in and molest a woman, a young woman.

And I was hopefully they were hoping I would be that young woman, and I did.

I walked into the Warner Theater was a theater, was located in the downtown Pittsburgh.

And Iggy Burkowski was the detective.

And he told me where to sit.

He gave me advice whenever he makes a move, I want you to lift your hand as I break.

I sat there for 20 minutes.

He wasn't showing up, and I thought, good.

I was hoping he wouldn't show up.

But all of a sudden I smell this Cologne and I see this big guy all tired it, sat right next to me, and I thought, oh he's here.

And all of a sudden I felt a leg encircle my leg, one of my legs, and was pulling the leg over to his.

And I said, what on earth is he doing?

I couldn't think.

Instead of doing this, I looked up at him.

I was like, so I said, what are you doing?

You know, stupid.

I, I was confused.

He got up and ran and I chased him.

I chased him clear out of the Warner Theater.

Close for that were the entrances, and I grabbed him by the leg.

I couldn't get the leg, but I pull the pants down.

And all I could see was Iggy.

If his eyes were pellets, I'd have been dead.

And, I heard about it forever.

And I recalls the following morning when we went to the judge, he accused me of attacking him at the judge court, and, he was held for court, but everybody in the courtroom laughed, except Iggy.

He never got forgot it.

And they continually kept reminding me about you.

You don't do that.

You know, you take advice, you take orders.

But that was my first decoy, which was a total disaster.

Therese had been assigned to a court reporting position.

She was very disappointed because she was hearing all these things that she didn't want to hear, because she was still so young.

It was difficult for me to listen to those stories.

They were horrible.

And I thought, this is job.

It's not for me.

And it doesn't seem like I'm going to be leaving here.

So I thought about looking for another job, and it was the day that I walked out and was going to get some lunch, and I walked up and I needed somebody to talk to, and I walked into a church which was known as Saint Mary's, at the point located very close.

I walked into the church, not a soul was there.

And I thought, gee, this is my time to be here alone with the Blessed Father.

And I knelt there and I prayed about what should I do?

And when I left that church, I felt different.

And what did I do?

I stopped in to see Mary.

And she went back to visit with my grandmother in, the Missing Persons Bureau.

And she looked really sad.

And my grandmother noticed that and said, you know, Therese, don't don't let this get you down, that, you know, this is a stepping stone for you.

It's a learning experience, but what you're hearing won't affect your life in any way.

You shouldn't be upset.

Changes are good.

They help you.

They have you learn more and she convinced me that what I was doing was for my benefit.

And she knew that I disliked listening to those cases.

I mean, the cases were pretty tough.

And she said, we listen to what people have to say, but we're not a part of it.

It's listening.

And she convinced me.

And at that minute, I wanted to be just like her.

I wanted to get into this man's world.

And I did.

I changed my mind.

I was going to fulfill this obligation to this department, and it was no time, I was back in Missing Person's.

If there's ever been a hand- made job for her, finding people.

That was it.

I was separated, working on a divorce, and he had visitation and I had kind of buttery stomach.

I don't know what made me feel that way, but I felt uncomfortable about it.

He came and he took the kids he supposed to have them home by 9.

9:30 nothing.

10:00 nothing.

We waited and waited, I waited till almost 2:00 that morning.

Nothing.

Well, I panicked.

A mother came to me to my office to report that her husband, whom she was divorced from, who was a known drug addict, had kidnaped her children, which, of course, we didn't know how to look at kidnaping by a parent.

But nonetheless, she sold me the story.

And, I just felt so much for her.

I thought, I'll help her.

And I was thrilled about that because my twin told me a lot about her and I felt relaxed.

She had two sons, Sammy and Danny, and, seven and nine, and, they were her life.

And I knew at that very moment from what she was telling me and my own.

And I did investigate the background, and I knew they were with the wrong parent.

So I was determined to help her.

I was able to give her the address of every board of education in the country.

I mean, I continually kept giving her addresses.

I would come home at night.

call these addresses and she sent them there.

We worked hard every, every time after work, my friends would come and we would type and we would type.

And I had a few phone calls that were fake.

We took a trip one time.

Neighbor.

It was a fake that upset me really bad.

You know?

And then it took months, like 8 or 9 months.

Did nothing to, to charge our city with.

I mean, I couldn't stand up and say that you were took on a city and you spent our money.

I didn't she did it all.

And with her, I worked for nine months.

And lo and behold, in December it was a great day for me.

I decided to work late.

I decided to go down and take a swim at, YMCA.

I returned home and oh my phone rings and it was a principal from the school up in Seattle, Washington.

Therese Rocco.

Are you.

Yes.

He says, I want to talk to you.

He said, I have, I have the photographs of two boys who were in my school.

And then I got this call Therese Rocco.

I think we found our boys.

Well, I would say I was so thrilled.

I knew commotion, screaming, carrying on.

Oh, oh, her.

But the background there were her mother and, and then I finally I told her where they were, and I said, I have to think and what I can do.

I contacted Dugan, who was the district attorney of Allegheny County, and I explained to him what I had and I asked him would freedom or liberties I had to do with this information.

And he said to Therese, if you turn this over to the police, you will have a hard time getting them back.

He said, do what your instincts tell you to do.

I said, thank you, and I did what I my instincts told me to do.

I was determined that we were going to go after them.

Then I called the mother and told her.

So we drove around and Seattle, Washington was where they were.

We flew and then he rented a car and we parked by the bottom of her house, and she had a great big picture window.

And I saw her.

The woman who ran with the nurse and my ex.

Around 830, she sees two little boys come down the steps, and they were practically down on the sidewalk where she could see them.

And then I saw the kids and this oh my!

He said, relax, relax.

He was trying to relax me But I was a nervous wreck because I saw them and I couldn't touch them.

The father had told the kids that the mother had died and they saw their mother.

They thought, that isnt mommy, that has to be Aunt June.

The mother had a twin sister and she looks at, you know, Sammy, Danny and June.

I said, no, it's mommy.

Daddy told us she died.

He told him I was dead.

They said, mommy!

and they ran to her.

It was a normal day.

Normal school day.

Might have been raining a bit.

Came down to the bus stop.

Was was waiting for the bus, and the car pulled up, with a guy in the front and, you know, didn't know what it was.

And then I saw in the backseat my Aunt June, my mother has a twin, and I assumed what I was seeing was my aunt, her twin, because I'd been told that she had died, so it couldn't be her in my mind.

Said, well, that's my aunt, my Aunt June.

So I was excited to see my Aunt June and, you know, a relative I hadn't seen in six, nine, ten months, so, you know, ran to the car and then, of course, realized it wasn't Aunt June, it was my mother.

And it was a lot of crying, a lot of hugging.

And I prayed and felt so much love as in that moment, in that back seat, just tears.

And my brother was with us, and it was just a very memorable event.

So we were all just one big bunch here.

They were crying, I was crying, put them in the car, took off, waited for a plane.

She said she sweat it out while they were waiting for that plane.

And we came home.

By the time we got to our airport, the airport was loaded with all of Canonsburg.

When I got older and started going through some of the files and some of the some of the things that my mother did, it was just amazing to me how much work she did to to help find us again.

You know, as a, as a single divorcée in the 60s, I think the attitude reading through some of the letters that she had sent out and got some, some letters back or communications and such, but you get the sense that in the 60s, the boys were with their father.

It wasn't considered quite the crime it is today.

I don't think people understood it or appreciated as much.

And that's where Therese Rocco was so great because she did get it.

And I think of of all the people and there's hundreds of people my mother reached out to from Pat Nixon and then Herbert Herbert Hoover and, just so many radio stations and I just see all the work that she did.

And it was really Therese Rocco that was consistently there for her and leading all this.

And the one, the one woman, I think that really gave my mother strength to continue on because she was an authority that was recognizing the crime here and supporting my mother through it.

I mean, I had so I had a lifetime of, of gratitude, I guess, built up.

And so I just wanted to make sure she knew how much I appreciate what she did for me.

Changed my life.

As a little girl, when I was about preschool age, I was a victim of domestic kidnaping.

My mother, who didn't have primary custody of me, was visiting and ended up kidnaping me.

My father was the one who had custody.

It was my dad used to call it, sort of like, an informal custody, which in the late 1970s was really unheard of.

But because my mother was an alcoholic and wasn't stable at the time, my dad was my primary caregiver.

And during a supervised visitation, she ended up actually kidnaping me and taking me from him.

So Therese Rocco was the head of missing persons and the one contact that seemed to be consistently caring about the case and about my dads situation, and the one who was willing to go sort of above and beyond to help him find information.

At some point, she received a tip, that the car that my mom owned had been located in West Virginia.

And, because it was outside of the state and because this was a domestic kidnaping, initiated by a mom, you know, she didn't need to take it too serious.

Not that she didn't need to take it as seriously as she did, but others didn't take it as seriously as it needed to be taken.

But she did.

And she understood how much my dad loved me and that something wrong had happened.

And so, despite the fact that it was outside of the state and Therese's hands were were tied in how much she could help, she was able to give that information for my dad so that he was able to then track me down.

I think the most important thing that came out of Thereses help is that I was able to grow up somewhere stable and safe and loving, and I feel like that's how she saved my life.

Because you know, I actually I worked with crime victims for over a decade, and I know all too well, what could have happened.

And she really, I feel like, saved my life.

She gave me an opportunity to be who I am today, and she gave my dad an opportunity to bring me up and to raise me.

And that she gave us our family back.

So I can never thank her enough for that.

Therese is really special.

She's a really special part of my history in my life.

My dad always talked about her and held her in such great esteem, as being sort of the hero for our family.

And so I grew up with her as my hero.

And, there's something to be said for a little girl having a hero like that.

And that's really why I think I went into social services.

I wanted to impact lives the way that she had impacted mine.

When Therese came to my wedding, I remember distinctly her walking through the door, at the reception.

And my dad and I were together at that moment, and it was just elation, like, how blessed am I that this woman is here with us, celebrating this really special day in our family.

And, I was so touched that not only did she remember me that, but she remembered all of it.

She remembered everything.

And that she was willing to, come and celebrate with my family, meant so much.

It was the year 1962.

I had already been missing persons as a captain for two years.

Phone rings, and it's a man who worked a desk, and he was a funny guy.

Elmer Passante.

And, he said, do you know that you have, ten year old child missing since 3 p.m.

this afternoon?

And, I didn't know.

I said, this is the first I'm hearing.

No one has called me.

The name was unusual.

Verdecchia.

I said spell it Elmer.

He couldn't pronounce it, so I thought I better call Gilmore, who was my superintendent of detectives, and I didn't mind getting him out of bed, because anytime you did, it had to be for something very serious.

And I thought missing children were one of his concerns.

I called him and I said, she's been missing since 3 p.m.

and they have conducted neighbors.

And the family had conducted a search everywhere.

The house was wide open.

People were on the, street.

There were cars, police cars.

Walked into the house and I met Ruth Riley, who was the Aunt of this young girl who was taking care of her.

Mary Ann was, a child, abandoned by both mother and father.

The mother had left Pittsburgh five years prior to Marianne reaching the age of ten.

She was only five at the time.

The father was an alcoholic who lived in the bars in Lawrenceville, and who had absolutely no interest in this child, had never made any contacts with Ruth.

Ruth was taking care of her, and you could sense that Ruth was extremely upset.

She was tearful.

And she then brought Gilmore and I to the room where the child slept.

We could see everything was in place, the color, her clothes were all there.

And I said, did she take any clothes?

No.

She said she was in shorts, red shorts, white top.

In the process of discussing, we went over to a woman where she had been that day to run an errand for her, and the woman said she did not need any errands to run.

But she said, I do know that she went over to the Martinique apartments.

Well, there was a place for us to go to.

I did not go.

But Gilmore sent two detectives over to the Martinique apartments and learned that Mary Ann had been there around 12 noon, and had asked a woman if she needed any errands run.

And she said, no, I don't.

Then she said, oh, I need cat, food.

And she gave her enough money to go buy cat food.

Mary Ann returned to the Martinique and handed her the money and the cat food.

They saw her walk up the street, which indicated she was headed for home, and this was almost around three.

Several people saw her on the boulevard, but nobody could determine exactly where she went.

And after three, nobody sees her.

It went on and on and on, and I never let it go.

And then in 1990, a police officer, chief of police, Kelly came to my office and said to me, if I had any recollection of a young person being reported missing in 1962, well, he didn't have to ask another question because I was blocked in my head.

I said yes, I said I had a little girl.

He said, yeah, this would be a young person, very young.

And I shared my file with him.

Mary Ann Verdecchia Yeah, I called, Lieutenant Mullen, who was in charge of homicide, and I handed my folder to him with all.

It's like this.

And, he took it and dealt with the, chief of police.

And they.

Here's was a story.

This young man came to the police and said that he had recollection of a minister using him.

He lived in Baldwin, and this minister abused him sexually.

And he said that he remembered and it had upset him for many years.

He was someone who had a very, very important job with the government.

And the board of police found his story credible.

Then he proceeds to tell him that he witnessed this minister killing a young girl.

We all believe him, but we have no proof.

I remember the tenacity that Therese Rocco demonstrated throughout the years that followed that demonstrated, her, personal investment in these matters.

I read her a recent book that she wrote, and were details, you know, all the work, all the effort that she did in trying to solve that, solve that case.

And it's still not solved.

And for to Therese, Mary Ann is is a case that she would like to bring closure to.

That case was one of the I think that case was probably the the worst.

And I bet to this day Therese is still, haunted by that case and wanting to do something.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Therese Rocco was passed over, a many a time because of her being a female.

We're in a male dominated arena.

And even today, females still are pressured and still feel that pressure of not being as good as, I can't begin to imagine what Therese has experienced as a police officer.

Not being a woman and having faced the same, experiences that many women have said they went through, including my wife, I would have never expected or known of that unless I heard about it.

But I can just imagine it had to be extremely difficult for her because she was a trailblazer, just because that wasn't the accepted practice back in the 50s and 60s.

Things can get pretty brutal, and people will use whatever they can to malign a person and an effort to have somebody else promoted to that position.

I had gone in 1969, I went to Italy and I was on my way back and I arrived and had somebody to transport me home.

And they said, you hit the newspapers.

I said, for why, what did I do?

And they said, You and Mungsy Moore.

He appeared before 400 women.

And he claimed that, Gilmore was retiring.

And he said that Therese Rocco is qualified and she should be named, and she put in charge of the detective bureau, but I wasn't, and I knew I wouldn't be, but that's how I knew he was in my corner.

And when he became the first black chief, he promoted me.

And he did put me, made me a commander and put me in charge of a lot of units.

Her reputation was that she was very thorough in finding missing children, that she and missing persons.

She was very thorough and and certainly very diligent in her investigations concerning missing persons, particularly missing children.

She had a great reputation for finding people.

Her work ethic, work ethic was tremendous.

I mean, she'd get there in the morning and they always used to joke because sometimes she'd come in a little late, you know, like not the dot at nine, maybe quarter after, but at 6:00.

And I was long gone, but at 6:00 or 7:00, she would still be there if she was working on a case.

If you had a child missing, there was no better person in the world to go to than Therese Rocco.

I guess they recognized that she was very good at what she did.

She was placed in charge, of, missing persons.

Mary ORourke, who I admired and respected.

And I as you see, I give her all the credit for everything I learned that worked the way she did it.

And I succeeded, perhaps further than she would have, considering that she was ahead of me and didn't have the opportunities that I had.

She knew what I was worth.

And when she was going to retire due to illness.

And she said to me that I want you to have this job.

And I said, oh, I don't know.

Rosenberg was the director.

Rosenberg was really my, ace in a hole.

Same pay, no equal pay, no car, just head of the missing persons Gigi Kuhn, originally was the lieutenant of homicide.

I'd have to say that he was one of the best things that could have happened to the missing persons.

He called me in and wanted to know all about us, and, I wasn't, quiet about how he were being neglected and how we were not being given credit.

I opened up with him.

He wanted to know, how many of us had graduated to the Academy.

I said, none of us, he said, you mean none of you have gone to the police academy?

I said, no.

They were matrons at the time, and they used them for, decoys and different things like that, watching female prisoners and, that type of thing.

But they never wanted them to go out and do police work.

Well, Therese wasn't having that And so therefore the city had to, have them go back and, get trained, as police officers as we were.

Well, how are you sworn in as policewomen?

I said, don't ask me.

I says they gave me that title, I carried it, carried a badge, and and I said, superintendent, I teach at the Academy.

And he started to laugh.

He said, you teach there.

You didn't even graduate from here.

I said, yeah, well, it was no time.

We all got the academy training, put us in uniforms.

It was a complete change.

Wanted to know why we weren't attending the meetings.

Like when the FBI men came in and.

And I said, we're not asked to go, and we never gone.

So that we were attending the meetings.

We were wearing uniforms.

We weren't given a car yet, but that was okay.

So things were a little different.

We were recognized more, to the point where, you know, things were looking up for us.

My take on this was that they were people, individuals, these women who were doing a lot of the work and doing a lot of activities and essential functions, police functions.

And, for them not to have uniforms and for them not and I'm talking about uniforms, police uniforms, not matron uniforms.

That was the first task force I've ever heard of.

And it was a murder task force.

And and, you know, for her to be selected to go to that you it speaks to, you know what reputation you had.

And Kuhn was a previous homicide lieutenant.

So, I mean, if I would be asked like it, I'd be very honored.

And I'm sure she was honored.

And I would admire the people that, you know, that were asked to do that, because they're only taking the best of the best to try to resolve, you know, the serial killer, you know, solve the case.

I called Gene Kuhn and oh, and he says listen, he said, I got good news for you.

You're going to have a leave of absence from the city for a whole year or more, if it takes more, and you're going to join my task force to solve all these murders.

I thought, well, I see, I got permission from the mayor.

I said, well, why didn't somebody asked me if I want it?

I didn't want it.

I thought, wow, knowing Kuhn and Forester, they were like that, right?

Get it right.

There's fighting going on.

And, this county detectives, did not appreciate the fact that Kuhn was getting involved in their police department, and, I said, no, I don't think I'm going to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

And but I knew he knew I was and, I left and went on the task force.

But I was the only woman with 40 men.

Black woman, Sigourney Saunders, who was very competent.

She had been there quite a number of years, came in to speak to me, and she started off by saying, this is no reflection on you.

I have no complaints about you being my boss.

But I think it's time that I test the waters.

And I says, what's that?

She said, since we have two men in this squad, how about me asking for a transfer into another squad and see how it works?

And she got her wish, but they sent her up to the chief's office to do clerical work.

She came back.

She said, I don't know about you, but I'm going to court.

Although I didn't get involved in the suit, I did say I would support them.

I appeared and I was on the stand for two days reading reports.

The women, what they accomplished, mentioning them by name.

I illustrated everything that these women had done, and for years had they had been held down, not given the equal pay, not given, but asked to go out.

I brought out their decoy work.

I had all the reports and he looked at me.

He just you could see he was wrapped up in everything I had to say.

So days went by and we didn't know what was going to happen.

But one day, Pat McNamara, who was head of the Fraternal Order of Police, shows up at my door and he was about six, four, six five.

He was a big, tall guy.

He couldn't even get in my door.

He comes in and he sits down and I says, what brings you here, Pat?

I have good news for you.

I said, what's that?

He said, they want to give you equal pay.

I said, why me?

What about the women?

He said, oh, he said, you weren't involved in that suit.

The judge.

The judge is going to have to see what they get, but I'm sure they're going to be okay.

So I said, why don't know, he says, we want you to sign.

However, you must sign this document specifying that you will never sue us.

I thought, I kept it on my desk for about a week.

Week and a half.

And I spoke to a friend of mine who was an attorney.

He said, sign it.

He's gave you bad advice.

Sign it.

He said, even if they have to, you're involved.

You get it.

So I signed it.

I didn't get my back pay $21,000.

Well, I, I was happy for the women.

They got about seven.

They got back pay.

I was glad for them.

I I did well, but it bothered me.

In fact, I carried it home.

And I remember one night I couldnt sleep.

Thinking why in the hell, could they do that to me?

And everything came up, you know, the way I had been treated, you know, because I was a woman, how the men came in and gave me orders.

Sergeants, you know.

So my mother heard me.

She slept in this room, and I slept in that room, and she called me.

What's wrong?

I didn't put this in the book.

And I said, well, I explained to her, I says, I'm $21,000 that they owed me.

And they she said, are you worried about money?

I said, yeah, and she said, let me ask you something.

Did they attack your reputation?

Now you have to remember she's asking me this in Italian.

I said, no, she said, are they trying to say you're somebody you're not?

I said, no, no, they're not attacking me, but they're just not going to give me the money because I signed.

She said, money, you know, she said another thing, of course I didn't put this in the book.

She said, all the money in the world does not equate one mass.

This is how religious my mother was.

She said, go to bed.

I went to bed.

Never thought of that again.

Never never, never, never.

I was content, I was happy and, you know, like I said, faith, religion played a very, very big part in my life.

And it wasn't long after that that Mungsie Moore promoted me to Commander.

Chief William Moore was the first black supervisor that was assigned to the police department.

And, he promoted me, commander.

In fact, that was one of the very first things he did, promoted me, commander.

For a period of time, I was in charge of the Detective Bureau, and I could sense some of the resentment, some of the men, but they feel fulfilled their obligations.

And then I was placed in charge of four units, the, identification, which was a big unit.

It encompassed a large portion of employees missing persons, youth, fugitive.

That was a big thing.

The fugitive which qualified me for the future.

There was, a situation there where the assistant chief was gone.

There were openings, and I have to give credit to Rita Kane too.

She said to Sophie, you know, she said Therese, she's been there all these years.

And Sophie and I were friends.

You know?

And, I had no idea she was going to do it.

And they discussed it, and Sophie was afraid to do it first Yeah, she said she was afraid and, Rita said, don't be afraid.

Why be afraid?

She said, you know, she did it.

I had my own credibility.

I had my own background.

I had been around longer than any of them, you know, they were superintendents, lieutenants.

I mean, I was there before they.

Well, then I got it.

I got I got a, notification from someone called.

So did you see what's written?

And I said, no, we'll pick it up.

You'll see.

You're going to be promoted to assistant chief.

I didn't believe it.

Yeah.

Mayor Sophie Masloff, the first female, mayor of the city of Pittsburgh, called me on the phone and said to Therese, I have good news for you.

You are going to be promoted assistant chief of police.

I couldn't believe it.

I mean, coming up from the ranks of a clerk typist all the way to assistant chief of police, I don't know of anybody that is really achieve that much.

And but she was very well deserving of it.

It came from her background, starting with the city as a clerk.

That had never really been a police officer to advance, to the point that she wasn't in a lot of it, quite frankly, just based on, her ability to do her job and her ability to manage people.

I mean, that's unheard of.

For one, for a woman, I believe.

And two, in that time era, and three, somebody that wasn't was never really a police officer to advance to an assistant chief.

When Therese was promoted to the first female assistant chief of police, I just thought, wow.

What an achievement.

What an achievement in this day and age.

And in this male dominated profession, for female to reach those ranks.

It just broke the glass ceiling.

Knowing that any one of us could follow right behind and do the same.

And I'm here now to say that it happened when I got promoted.

There were also two other female assistant chiefs.

All three of us got promoted at the same time.

What an accomplishment.

I'm she's opened those doors.

It was recognition on the part of key officials, both political, governmental as well as law enforcement of what her contributions could be and, of her effectiveness as a, as an investigator.

And so she was appreciated.

I know that, Therese was well respected not only by members of inside the police department, by elected officials also.

And I know there were occasions where the mayor would consult with, like Sophie Masloff, she would consult with Therese when she wanted to know something within the department, because I think people just knew that she was credible and she would give the straight answer.

It was a rumor was circulating throughout the bureau that I was being considered to be promoted as the first female Marshal of Western Pennsylvania.

I was alarmed to a degree and, not sure of myself, I thought, now I can't believe this.

Would I be able to do this?

Considering that I would be out working with all these men?

I was doubtful.

However, I was convinced that I had the qualifications thanks to DiNardo, who was our Director of Public Safety.

The first thing he asked me was, did you apply for it?

And I said, no, I did not.

And I said, furthermore, I do not think that I'm qualified to do that.

I disagree with you.

He said, I disagree with you because I believe that you do have the qualifications you're outstanding in locating.

And that's what this marshal's position is.

They locate fugitives.

That's their big, big concern.

Well, it kind of had me thinking about it.

I walked away with a different attitude.

I thought, maybe I am qualified, you know?

And I waited to see if the rumors were continuing to circulate.

And eventually I found that the FBI was involved and working on my background, and I became very friendly with, an investigator for the FBI, Bill Lintz, although he never, never once told me what he had written down about me.

An FBI agents job is to present the facts the way he gets them.

My opinion has absolutely nothing to do with it.

So everything I was doing in that investigation was merely reporting the facts as they were given to me.

And then what convinced me was the call from Washington.

The gentleman was, not a Marshal, however.

He was the coordinator, and he implied that I had the qualifications.

He said, you've read my review, my FBI review.

And he said, it's pristine and pristine.

In the case of Therese, my investigation went along very nicely because what could you say bad about to Therese Rocco?

But at the same time, her journey to that position wasn't going on quite as smooth as I would have thought, because it soon came to my attention that there were forces, you know, on the outside that were trying to prevent her from getting that position.

One in particular was a former newscaster for one of our television radio stations in Pittsburgh who had become a congressman.

And I had heard rumor that Therese had actually helped this person in the past on some of his own personal problems.

When Ron Klink approached, it must have been Craig Stevens in Washington.

He approached him and he was upset that I was being considered for this position.

And, Mr.

Jifilin said to him, do you know she's highly qualified?

He said, oh, no, she's not qualified.

And he said, why do you say that?

Have you read her background?

He said, that's not the reason.

Shes a woman.

Well, the one that was in there had no intention of giving up that position.

And because he didn't have any intention of giving up that position, he was going to do everything in his power to make sure that Therese or anybody else didn't replace him.

Not only that, that he was contacting the powers that be, not necessarily keeping her out, but keeping himself in.

And he was fighting a real struggle with it, but he was getting some support, too.

I was supposed to be sworn in in April of ‘95 and, received another phone call from Clinton's office.

And the gentleman said, do you know any powerful politicians?

And I said, why, you're you're you're capability of being a, female marshal is being questioned by Ron Klink.

And, well, then I got disgusted and I said, I have to go looking for politicians?

And they were going to block her, every time.

Well, I think Therese was denied the position of U.S.

Marshal because she was a woman was a very unfair thing.

And I don't think it could happen today.

There was a lot of rumors that she was denied that job because she was a woman, or mainly because she was a woman.

And I would contest that, if in fact, that were true, with a blind eye to her experience, her reputation, the law enforcement community throughout Pennsylvania, then that was a bad decision.

Therese Rocco was not given, the opportunity to become a Pennsylvania, U.S.

Marshal because of not only because she was a woman, but because by being a woman, she did not have the, socialization that men have.

It's not that you put your application or your resume in and it's blind.

That's not it.

And I'm not going to sit here and say that it is, because I know that that's not true, and that she would have two strikes against her.

You can say, if you want, that her being a female was the factor in this here and in truth, no it wasn't.

Their certainly not going to put in that report, she didn't get the job because of what Bill Lintz just told you.

I know what happened.

You can I didn't hear it second hand.

I was there, I was it.

Nobody knows more about the Therese Rocco investigation than I did.

And that goes for the supervisors or any one of them that nomination was challenged from day one, and they had to come up with an excuse that would not reflect what was really going on.

What would what would you do?

Well, you have to find a reason why you're telling her she's not getting the job because she knows she's qualified.

I mean, Therese, first of all, never solicited that position.

Therese Rocco was sought out as a candidate by the powers that be.

They already knew she was a woman.

They already knew what she did at the police department.

They already knew what her reputation was in the community.

And it wasn't the reason then.

It wasn't the reason until the end.

You know, that character that was in there, I believe when Therese finally didn't get it, still thought that he was going to get it to get to stay.

And then he was given a job in Harrisburg in security with the government down there.

Could that be her being a female have been one of the reasons they say that she wasn't the person for the job by all means, they had to come up with some reason to reject her, but they couldn't totally reject her.

So what they tried to do is shift it to another position, which would have taken Therese out of the Pittsburgh area down to Washington, DC.

And that way then they wouldn't have to admit their true intent, which of course, was to deny her that position.

And, you know, therefore, I went to Washington and, had a meeting with Gonzalez.

He read my my background and said, you are highly qualified.

Why didn't you get this in Pennsylvania?

And I said, because of politics.

And he said, well, I think you would probably be able to handle it here.

But, you know, he said the people that you would who would be working under you are black Americans.

And I looked at him and I said, I laughed.

I said, Director Gonzalez, I have worked with black Americans for 39 years, and I want you to know that my promotion to commander was made by a black chief of police.

He didn't say nothing.

And he said, well, we'll keep you in mind.

I wanted to say, shove it.

It is understandable, that some people in law enforcement may come to be viewed, in a negative fashion by, minority groups, specifically in our community.

That would be African Americans.

That's regrettable, I can tell you, however, there was never any bias on her part in terms of how she moved ahead, with her job.

Therese Rocco and I recall this quite well, never expressed, conveyed, acted in any fashion, such as to even suggest any kind of racial bias against African Americans.

Never, never, did that happen.

Before I left, I said director Gonzalez, I want you to know that black Americans were not my enemies.

My competition was male.

It was Mary Wynter who decided to get in touch with me because she knew my background.

Well, Therese was a legend in Pittsburgh, so everybody had heard of Therese Rocco, and, we were located.

Our first home was in Brookline.

I knew that she lived in Brookline, so it was very easy to find out where she was and introduce myself.

And, I found a kindred soul in Thereses.

So we just went on from there.

If I didn't have the experience I had with all of these kids, I couldn't have done as much as I did for Mom's House.

People just responded to her.

She's the kind of person that people respond to.

They sense her sincerity.

The years of experience that I had with sad situations.

Dead children, hungry children, thrown away children disillusioned children, neglected children inspired me.

Well, I think Therese is the ultimate Christian, and she displays her Christianity, lives her Christianity through service to others and her, enthusiasm for the project and her just generous nature and her kindness, her compassion, her sense of service to others.

That was all a plus for us.

I was meant to help Moms House, and I feel anyone could have done the Marshal's job.

Any qualified, whether it were a woman or a man.

It just was a natural for her to come into our organization and, look for people that she knew who could help us financially.

When I look back at the many years of experience I had in law enforcement, it enabled me this my career enabled me to do what I did for Angels Place.

We tend to want to put adjectives on women bosses and their sort of negative, and describing them and tough to me is not what Therese Rocco was.

She was compassionate.

She was concerned, she was assertive, she was firm.

She expected you to come in and do your job and do it to the best of your ability and treat everyone with dignity and respect.

So if that's tough, then put a capital T on it, because that was Therese Rocco.

She was a woman of faith.

She had a strong, commitment to God, she had the strong love of family.

And she had a very, very strong dedication to her work.

Well, she was always a positive role model.

So even if we weren't close, you could just observe her from afar.

And you wanted to emulate the way that she carried herself.

She was always a lady, like some women.

When they came on the job early on, they felt they had to act like a man in order to exist in this profession.

And you never saw that in Therese.

She was always a lady, and she carried herself in a manner that you felt that you could carry yourself in the same manner, act like a lady, but on a man's job.

And there were others I also tried to emulate.

But because she was a female, that was important.

There were other females, but she held rank and that was most important.

She was on a mission and she performed that mission, and she did it quite admirably.

The biggest thing I admire about her, she has her beliefs and what she believes and what she believes in.

Right?

And she loves her life like that.

And she's feisty too.

And always talking about children who were missing reported missing years ago that don't forget about them.

Therese Rocco's greatest strength to me is her compassion.

She's simply a woman of grace.

I can say no more about her.

I just think she's just the epitome of grace.