From WXXI news.

I'm Raquel Steven filling in for Evan Dawson, and this is connections.

Before they become butterflies or moths, caterpillars play a critical role in supporting biodiversity within our ecosystem.

While some may scold them for chewing through leaves and defacing the plant life, you may have spent weeks trying to grow in your garden.

These creatures are a vital part of nature's food web.

They are a food source for birds and other insects.

They support pollination and their waste nourishes the soil.

One environmentalist even went as far as saying that humans wouldn't be able to survive without them.

From their intricate designs and textures to the beauty of metamorphosis.

These organisms support our environment in more ways than we could imagine.

The importance of caterpillars is captured in Jeff McKay's documentary film The Extraordinary Caterpillar.

The Brocollo Bee Friendly Farm and Gardens in Fairport will be hosting a special screening of this film on June 29th, which will go into more detail during this episode.

But by the end of this hour, my panel of experts will hope to sway you into becoming a caterpillar lover and enthusiast.

As we explore the hidden world of these small and pesky herbivores and the biodiversity within our region, I want to welcome our guests in studio today.

I have Lori Brocollo, the owner of Beef Friendly Farm and Gardens.

Hi Lori.

Thank you.

Nice to have you.

And I have Kevin Farrell.

Farrell.

Kevin Farrell, the senior director of conservation for Genesee Land Trust.

Hi, Kevin.

Thank you for having me.

Of course.

And on the line I have Kyra is a Kyra Stevenson.

Am I pronouncing it right?

Kyra?

You are?

Raquel.

Thank you.

Yes.

Shakira is a nature based learning coach for the Rochester City School District.

I would like to welcome all of you for this discussion now.

I'm one of those people that was like, hey, caterpillars turn into butterflies and and, you know, that's what.

That's what it is.

But there's a lot that goes on before we discuss everything that caterpillars do.

Lori, can you tell us about bee Friendly Farm and Gardens?

I know your mission is to create the best looking yards in the neighborhood using an environmental approach.

What does that mean?

And environmental approach?

What does that contain?

Everything we have done since the beginning, 36 years ago is, make sure that we reduce pesticides and show people how we can take care of landscapes without really killing a lot of, innocent bugs out there, for example.

And then it's evolved over the years into how to prune properly so that you have less paths.

And then as we're replacing old fashioned plants, making sure that we plant with a purpose and choose plants that are going to host caterpillars or birds or, you know, bird friendly yards and things like that.

So you intentionally pick plants that agree with our ecosystem.

Exactly.

And I've got our garden center to a point of 80% of our plants are natives now.

And that is a huge goal that, has evolved as more and more people are understanding natives and actually asking for them and being able to eliminate the plants that really don't serve a purpose at all, other than they're pretty, I mean, pretty great.

But how about.

So native plants, can you can you tell us what native plants.

Are?

That means that it grows in our northeast area.

Okay.

So then we can get really picky about native plants and say, all right, does it grow in the Finger Lakes area or does it grow in the Genesee River region because there's so many different microclimates from, you know, up by the lake, sandy soils where the glaciers came through or carved out areas where it's all heavy clay or the limestone types of soils in the Finger Lakes area.

And all these different plants require different, you know, environment, sun shade, types of soils, etc.. There's a really a lot of science that goes into it.

Yes.

So native means it's from the region in general.

And then there's native hours, which are cultivars that are bred from the native plants.

But maybe for a little bit more color or attractive interest, but they still have to function because some cultivars don't actually function and insects cannot actually get to the nectar because of the shape of the flower was changed during the cultivation.

Yeah, it's really fascinating.

Yeah, I can see your passion as we talk about it.

And you said 80% of your plants are native.

Is that compared to like other other, gardens or yards?

What is that in comparison to those like 60% normal or.

No.

What do you think?

10%.

Wow.

Like wow.

So you're surpassing, like, normal way, you're way surpassing that.

Yeah.

I'm just really passionate about it.

And so is everybody that comes and works at our company.

They have background in conservation or, you know, some kind of environmental interest or, you know, a lot of, the people that work for us are, are hunters and fishermen.

They just know what they see out in the field.

And those were never available, those plants in the garden centers for people to replicate and attract the birds.

So, it's just kind of comes natural.

It's like nature is so gorgeous and people do not get to experience a lot of nature.

That's really what for me, it's all about, is sharing with the community and experiencing it right in your own backyard.

Wow.

And what else can we can we find that bee friendly farms and gardens?

Oh, besides beautiful plants.

Really beautiful native plants.

Yeah, friendly, knowledgeable people.

And we are looking at an old farm from the 1900s.

It's a historic old, dairy farm.

And we have lots of woods and different habitats also, but the main thing is that when you come out there, I think you feel like you're.

We're only three miles from Wegmans in Penfield, but yet you feel like you're going way out into this urban area and you get to experience the barn swallows, for example, that are, my husband Hazel's burns Wells because, you know, they make a mess everywhere.

So we cover the things that are in the barn and let them nest.

And, I love them because they keep the insects away from where we're shopping.

And, So would you consider yourself, what is it, entomologist?

Is that the word I'm using?

Is.

Is that the right word?

My husband likes to call me environmental wacko.

We're not going to call you that.

Unconditional love, you know?

And I just want you to know, I think of that very favorably because, So I say that proudly.

Yeah.

No tree hugger from the 70s.

And finally feeling like we're really accepted now and, and people are yearning to learn it.

Covid helped tremendously.

People got to look out their windows and start noticing birds and and their activities, and then all of a sudden they wanted to attract more birds and more butterflies to their yards.

But now we're talking about the moths that people don't really notice because they fly at night.

Yeah, and we don't like moths.

Why?

I know, oh, yeah.

Don't we have, like, moths?

I remember back in the day where my mom would put mothballs right in, in our clothing.

Right.

So we were trained to to think of moths as something creatures that are bad.

Exactly.

And that's because moths are unseen.

And this is a whole new thing to I. Let's go.

Moth thing.

People like to go birding early in the mornings and catch the birds.

Let's go moth moths and go find the moths at night, right after dusk and start, finding ways to to really, enjoy them leaving lights on, on the outside screen.

In the morning, when we lived in the woods every morning, we'd find all different kinds of interesting moths, and I would just take pictures of them.

I also love, I know for the fact that you can take a picture.

I know, but it's all at your fingertips.

So I discovered a moth the other day in my yard that I thought was a butterfly, because it was a day flying moth.

And so.

And it was orange.

I don't think of, you know, moths being that color.

And it was really tiny, but there was a lot of them.

And then my photo, Google showed me that it was a chickweed moth, they call it is a common name and it loves clover.

And they have clover growing.

And it is one of the main contributors to the inchworm caterpillars that the birds absolutely have to have during nesting season.

And you discovered all this through I so you took a picture of the moth and you, you kind of filtered it through I. Yeah.

Exactly.

Yes.

So and now people are coming in and asking for plants because they looked it up all the time.

They're, they're coming in with their lists.

Yeah.

So, the research is right there.

You know, I never I didn't even think about I being a part of this conversation.

So I want to explore that a little later.

But I want to get to Kevin in the work you do at Genesee.

Land trust.

What are the responsibilities?

Genesee land.

And what is.

What is Genesee land trust?

Yeah.

Great question.

So we are a local nonprofit organization that, preserves and protects natural lands, and waterways that enhance the quality of life in the greater Rochester region.

So we have, acquisition programs to acquire those high quality habitats that might have those unique butterflies, caterpillars, moors or other wildlife, or wetlands that are really important for, wildlife and humans and just green infrastructure.

We do a lot of farmland protection work, making sure our region has farms that, produce those wonderful farm stands that we all like to visit in the summer.

And then programs that connect people to nature.

You know, there are people falling out of love with nature for, for many reasons.

And that could be its own episode in particular.

But, having programs that really speak to individuals, interest in what that is to be outdoors and how it can really help them, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally and really just the benefits of the outdoors.

Yeah.

And I, you know, I love to compare our region to other regions, right.

What compare compared to other regions where the where does the Finger Lake kind of rank as far as our ecosystem and our, our natural environment.

Yeah.

So, so, in New York State, there are a variety of different, you know, land trust and other groups that are working to conserve land.

You know, one of the things we, we come back to in the greater Rochester sort of seven county region is that this is a place that people love.

And why do people love?

It is because we have a mix of scenic farmland, of working farms.

We've got nature preserves and nature parks where folks can get out and recreate close to home.

You know, we're not a big city that's going to take you four hours to get to a big hike.

And we're we're close to so many great resources.

We got some we're rich and water resources from, the Finger Lakes, the canal, the Genesee River, Lake Ontario.

And we're just a good spot to be.

So, there there are a lot of parcels and smaller areas that are worth protecting, whether it's old woods, again, grassland, meadows that support birds and pollinators, or other resources, that even connect to people to and make people's lives better, whether that's providing more shade, with the lens of climate change or transportation corridors for, you know, walking and biking.

So if I was a caterpillar.

Would I want to be in our region?

That's a good question.

With my my bird hat on.

You know, one of the the, trailer for this, documentary, doctor Doug Talmage says chickadees in particular need 6000 to 9000 caterpillars to fledge.

One, group of.

They're young.

Yeah.

So if I was one of those caterpillars, I'd be a little worried.

And we're such a great spot along the lake for birds in particular during migration in the spring, in the fall that some caterpillars, unless they're, you know, very well hidden, which many are, you know, might be might be risky.

Yeah.

I always think about when I've flown to other places and they fly.

We went to Costa Rica years ago and everything is green and lush, and there's so much to look down at.

And when I was flying back in and I looked at nothing but black rooftops, black parking lots and lawn after lawn after lawn, and during the summer the lawns are brown and I'm like, oh my God, if I was a bird, I would not want to land here.

Yeah.

So fortunately, Rochester, though, has a much prettier landing and inviting environment.

There is a lot more lush land.

It's still way too much farmland and way too many lawns that have, gotten rid of the habitat that's needed for.

Yeah, and, Lord, you're not being biased at all.

No.

I want to read this quote by Natalie Payne, who is executive director of Saunders Finger Lakes Museum, and she described the Finger Lakes region.

The Finger Lakes region is one of New York's greatest natural treasures, treasures and inspiring public awareness of its biodiversity is critical to its future.

How do we respond to what Natalie said?

Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with that.

The Finger Lakes and, you know, greater Rochester region is such a unique, space because of the variety of habitats that are here.

You know, I mentioned earlier about, water resources.

I mean, in Rochester in particular, I mean, where I'd been dubbed a climate haven, because the amount of climate migrants and refugees who are coming either forced or on their own to come here because we are, have a climate that is under scenarios will be relatively safer under some of these other big cities like the southwest, etc., with, with climate change.

So having these spaces that caterpillars and wildlife depend on are also spaces that people depend on.

And I think people around the world are seeing, hey, that Finger Lake spot, I've heard about that.

That's that's pretty cool.

I'm gonna go check that out or move there someday.

Yeah, yeah.

I want to, get Kira involved in this conversation.

Kira, you are a nature based learning coach in the city school district.

Pardon my ignorance, Kira.

I don't think I've ever heard of this title.

What is a nature based learning coach?

What do you.

What does that do?

What?

What are you.

So I, I think the easiest way to kind of describe what I do would be, help connect our youth and our children to these natural spaces and all of our beautiful living creatures, from the tiniest, to some of our big old trees that are within the city of Rochester.

And is that harder to do in the city, in the in the city school district and within the urban setting and not really being exposed to nature?

Is that is it harder to get students enthused about our trees and our environment?

Well, this is year four of our program, at school 12.

And, I would say that the culture now makes it really easy within within the environment, of our school, our students, have a completely different appreciation for our living, Ken, than they did years ago.

So I would say that it's actually easy now, you know, and one of the jokes I always say is, you know, where do you start with a nature based learning program?

Or how do you start with getting people connected to nature?

And obviously, number one is to open the door and go outside.

But then also providing time and space and that space can be some of our cracks within the sidewalk or parking lots or, strips of, of our, our greenery between, you know, buildings and spaces.

And we're very lucky in the city of Rochester and the surrounding areas to have the nature that we do and the trees that we do.

Obviously it's not equitable.

And that's a big push with things that we're working on.

As to who has access, and the ability to spend time in nature.

So that's a big part of, my passion.

And, and what I do for my job.

Yeah.

And hear it.

Do you like insects at all?

Caterpillars.

What's your what's your take on on these small creatures?

I do, I do, I'm often asked what my favorite animal is, and I never have an answer because I tell everyone that I can find the uniqueness and the beauty and pretty much every living thing.

Even the mosquitoes, they they are the food for the bats.

And I'm a huge fan of bats, so, I am I'm a huge fan, and I think insects are a great entry point for kids to be curious and slow down and to learn how to be gentle with another living being.

That was you know what?

You just made me appreciate?

Mosquitoes.

I never thought I would thank you, Kira.

And for the for my.

Just for everyone.

Caterpillars.

Right.

Just your general take on them.

And how do they support biodiversity?

Just generally caterpillars.

As a child, I've just always fascinated with how many different shapes and colors are out, how they mimic and look just like a twig.

You have to really look, and then all of a sudden you see movement and it's like, oh my gosh, that was right there in front of my eyes.

So, the the patience of just observing and then the calming of nature.

So caterpillars in nature in general, they all just really go together.

Well.

Yeah.

No, I mean, they're, they're energy converters, you know, caterpillars are eating, leaves from native plants.

Many, rely on specific plants.

And they're converting, the energy from the plants, into proteins, into fats.

And then from those caterpillars, you know, birds will eat them.

Many birds get their beautiful colors, like our warblers in the spring.

These, you know, red, these yellow, orange from the caterpillars that they're eating.

So then it supports the entire food web, because of what they're doing.

So, you know, I think one of the unique thing is just, that I heard, you know, an oak tree, for example, can support more than 1000 butterfly and moth species, 1000, which is from from one oak tree versus a non-native, like a gingko tree or something.

3 to 5 species that that support.

So I think if people were to plant more oak trees and more other native plants, you know, that would really support caterpillars and the entire food webs that they're part of.

Oh, and, Kyra, I know you were you were speaking on on how you feel about caterpillars and what they do for our ecosystem.

I think for me, watching children, that, you know, almost like what Laurie was saying, where for one moment they're like, nothing's here.

I don't see anything.

And then once they see that caterpillar and then they are able just to notice all the different detail, and make comparisons.

This looks like this.

And this looks like, you know, the color purple that I saw somewhere else.

And so being able to make those connections and then understanding that this little creature has so much to learn from, whether it's its own role in the ecosystem, knowing that it's going to change into something else.

So that idea of that change is inevitable.

And what can we learn from change?

And then the connectors, we have a group of fifth graders this year that have become intense birders.

And so they know that being able to see those birds and having the birds, have what they need comes from these little critters and these, these caterpillars, you know, and like, I said to, it's really about giving, time and space for kids to slow down, be able to wonder, and then make that connection with this little critter that they may never have noticed before.

And the fear goes away and the empathy starts to grow, and then they find them, they're connected with them.

And so they want to protect them, and they want to learn more.

And what plants do they eat and how do they get to the plants and what do they turn into?

And now you start to build this beautiful, ecosystem of biodiversity and make all those connections where our students are a part of that.

Wow.

And how how important is putting this together for your curriculum?

I like how what does your curriculum look like as a nature based learner?

I would love to come to your class every day like we're going outside.

It's a it's, it's funny because a lot of times people are like, we just play with sticks, and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no.

This is, when you have nature as the teacher, right?

So I'm not the teacher.

The classroom teacher is not the teacher.

When you have nature as the teacher, the curriculum is engaging, it's dynamic.

It is, accessible to all kids, no matter where they are.

All people, no matter where they are.

You know, whether it's a bad day, good day.

Reading levels don't matter.

Everything becomes accessible when you have nature as the teacher.

And, we do get really in depth.

Our third graders focus a lot on pollinator gardens.

And actually, Lori Amber color was a huge support for that last year where we planted specific plants and we looked at form and function of pollinators versus the plants that they need.

And created this incredible learning space with the University of Rochester for not only pollinators and plants and animals, but for children as well.

So the curriculum is is everything that I do is and here what we do is tied to standards.

It just is, dynamic, like I said, because of of nature being the teacher.

And it can be math and social studies.

I mean, we we had to have the kids look at how many plants do we need to support, the pollinators to support the birds, in, in a certain ecosystem.

And then the history to the history of the land that we were we were planting these different native plants on so I could go on and on.

Yeah.

Kevin, I know you mentioned, you know, caterpillars take the plant energy and and produce protein in the birds.

What else?

How do they support pollination?

We we've been hearing that a lot.

The word pollination.

How do they support that that process.

Yeah.

So, you know, caterpillars, you know, will mostly feed on native plants.

Once those caterpillars, go through metamorphosis and become butterflies or moths, then they're very much important pollinators, throughout our landscape.

So I would certainly defer to, to Laurie's expertise on, on on that, but, just, you know, with the other insects just so important dragonflies and the like to to what we rely on.

Go ahead.

Laura, I know you.

You're well versed in this, so please educate.

Us.

I'm just thinking about all of the plants and how specific they are, though, too.

Like, spice Bush is a plant that we sell now a lot because one, it's deer resistant and it blooms early in the spring and it's a great little pollinator plant, tiny little flowers.

But then that is the only plant, one of the only plant that the spice bush swallowtail butterfly can lay its eggs on.

And so just learning how important one little plant can be in this entire ecosystem where we are overrun by deer, for example.

And, these are all the things that you mentioned.

Saunders Finger Lakes Museum, and I just I got involved with that.

This the person John Adamski, it was a dream of his years and years ago.

It was just a dream.

And to see it coming now to actually flourishing, that we not only have lots of property that's already been developed with wetlands to get people out there closer to nature.

But now the actual museum building is being built and the exhibits are taking place now as we speak.

So, a destination where anybody can go, throughout the entire Finger Lakes, Rochester, Buffalo, of course, people from other areas.

But to have something like that really close that people can experience and it changes all the time because outdoor experience is just as much a part of that museum as the indoor experience.

Sorry, I got carried away on that, but I just was so excited because nobody knows about it.

That's the other thing.

That was one of the reasons I really wanted to get this information out to our community.

Knowing about caterpillars is one thing, but knowing about all these great organizations and what's going on in our community like hero does and Genesee Land Trust, and there are so many, the Audubon Society and I, on and on and on, all of these great supporters of nature bring them together and let other people know that they're right there at your fingertips.

You can join in and be part of the movement.

Yeah.

And you're you're always learning, right?

You're you're oh, you said you you attend insect farms and you enjoy you, Laurie is like a kid right now.

Where?

And I, when we talk about insects, you light up.

What are you.

What are something new to learn?

What?

Why don't you go to these places?

One of my favorite thing that I do, just to look at all the different, mimicry of the insects and how they can hide and look just like a leaf.

It's absolutely fascinating.

Stick bugs to see a stick bug in real life, see them in pictures.

But then to actually see one and let it walk on you.

So just thrilling.

And yes, I do.

I feel like a child.

And this is one thing about nature is it does it brings a child back out in you.

And my favorite students in, so to speak, are my clients, the adults.

And being able to show them a ladybug larva doesn't look anything like a ladybug, and it's actually not very attractive, but it's so cool.

And yet people see bugs in their their bodies.

I got to get the spray.

Yes, I got to kill it.

Yeah, there's a hole in the leaf, so it must be killing my plants.

No native plants can handle a few holes and support the caterpillars feeding on them.

Yeah.

It's it's it's a whole world of wonder.

It's like a Discovery Channel right there in front of you.

Every single moment you turn and find something new.

And I want to invite our listeners to join in on this conversation.

You can give us a call at 1-844-295-8255, or a local number 2639994.

If there's any, insect enthusiasts out here, caterpillar enthusiast, or you can just comment in our YouTube channel.

Kevin, what do we need to do to make sure that insects and animals that are important to our ecosystem, do have, this space, this natural environment, this space to really thrive?

Is there something that we should be doing better?

Yeah.

I mean, there's there's many things.

I mean, the start, you know, to start is thinking about native plants, thinking about what's in your backyard.

You know what what Kira mentioned was profound about, you know, looking in the cracks of our sidewalks.

I mean, we don't have to travel to the Adirondacks.

We.

We love the Adirondacks.

We love these other great natural resources around us.

But there's so much in our backyard.

So being able to slow down and observe what's there and understand what it relies on.

Lori mentioned, AI tools, but, you know, there are different apps like Merlin, which is a bird identification app, which will tell you what you hear when the bird is calling, and then seek another app which takes a photo of a caterpillar or a leaf, which will help tell you what it is, and then learn a little bit about it.

And then you might know, hey, this is a giant swallowtail.

It relies on prickly ash as a host plant.

So you can really support, caterpillars and all wildlife by just understanding what's around you and then being an advocate in your community.

If you want a mix of green space, farmland, and development, you know, show up, be an advocate in the town or the city that you live to help share your voice with your vision for the future.

You know, we do have a caller and we do have some comments.

So we're going to we're going to address that when we take after this break.

We're talking about the world of caterpillars right here on WXXI connections.

I'm Megan Mak coming up in our second hour.

It's connection Summer sessions where we bring back popular episodes all tied to a theme.

This week's theme is conversations with astrophysicist Adam Frank.

In this episode, he offers what has become a controversial opinion that science cannot provide absolute knowledge and understanding, and that it can suffer from a blind spot, ignoring the power of the human experience.

That's next.

In connection, summer sessions.

Support for your public.

Radio station comes from our members and from the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra.

The 20 2627 season ranges from Beethoven to.

Broadway, The Nutcracker to John.

Williams this September through next May.

Learn more at.

Rpo.org and Bob Johnson Auto.

Group.

Believing an informed public makes for a stronger community.

Proud supporter of connections with Evan Dawson focused on the news, issues and trends that shape the lives of listeners in the Rochester and Finger Lakes regions.

Bob Johnson Auto group.com.

And we're back with WXXI connections, and we're here talking about caterpillars, a small but very important, creatures in our environment that keep our ecosystem going, our food web going.

What food web?

I know what that means.

What?

What is that?

What?

I don't think our listeners know what that means.

What is our food web?

The food web is the cycle of, the the insects and everything, including, fungi that break down the plants.

It's it's so much more involved.

And maybe, Kevin, you're better at explaining the fungi.

So the things that we don't like.

Laurie, you're telling me all the things that we don't like are important?

Very.

All these microorganisms that there's, like, the soil is so alive, and you have no idea what is, in there and how much they need air, for example, loose soil versus compacted soil.

I was thinking about the question about the one thing that everybody can do, because pretty much everybody has lawns.

We can just pick a spot in the lawn and stop mowing it.

You could just literally stop mowing a section and make it a grassy meadow and start to see what comes up, or you can start to develop it and add the native plants.

But the easiest thing to do is to start to forget about these perfectly manicured lawn.

And I hate saying that because I'm in the lawn care business and it's actually.

It seems kind of counterproductive.

Yeah, but you can have a beautiful part of the lawn and then also support the, the landscape.

And so that is the easiest part is to change back to nature and, and stop having everything so mowed and manicured.

And then you also reduce carbon footprint by doing that as well.

I think you're creating some enemies here.

Lori.

So long manager.

Nice.

I, we were so used to pulling weeds and I heard weeds are a little are are good for caterpillars or insects.

Many of the weeds are now there's invasive weeds.

And that's something we can definitely talk about to cover.

And that's a huge battle because they come in and take over our native plants.

So yeah, it's it's choosing the right weeds.

I like some of my weed garden's butterfly weed and milkweed and iron weed and Joe pie weed.

There's a lot of weeds that are really awesome gardens.

Yeah.

This is a bay weed and awesome.

I never thought I mean, this ain't saying, well, what kind of weed?

Oh.

But Kevin, Kevin, can we talk about the food web and what do we need to know about this, this food web and how how does Genesee Land Trust kind of incorporate themselves into this?

Yeah.

So, when I started, learning about ecology and the study of the outdoors, the living things, the first rule that you learn is that everything is connected.

So for a food web, you know, that's understanding that, you know, you got a, it's a circle.

So we got to start somewhere.

But the leaves that fall from a tree, are broken down by our decomposers.

Like fungi, you know, mushrooms will emerge.

And then there are things that rely on that to nourish themselves, whether that's amphibians in vernal pools, or, you know, plants that will come and produce food for the caterpillar, then that will provide food for the birds.

So our Genesee Land Trust, we're just very cognizant on the composition of species that we're able to protect and habitats that we're able to protect, to really have the highest quality and most healthy, you know, properties or habitats that can support the most amount of species.

So, sometimes it's just a few acre parcel, but it's really important because it's surrounded by houses and development and lawns that are essentially deserts for wildlife.

And then some larger properties that can support larger animals like great horned owls, pileated woodpeckers, and more, you know, coyotes or other just larger mammals.

So it's very much a spectrum, but really finding those spaces that are important not just for wildlife, but again, important for people to.

Yeah.

In here, when you're when you're, talking with your students, how do you explain to them the importance of everything?

Like Kevin said, being connected, right.

Even from the weeds to to the large animals.

So that's I mean, that's key to our program is that we take, the lens of that we are a part of the ecosystem.

And I was a science teacher for years, taught ecosystems every year.

And a lot of times when it's taught, it's separated from the human aspect.

And so you're looking at all these other living beings and how the energy moves through.

All of the habitats in the ecosystems.

And here it's about that connection and where we are so that we create an eco centric view where instead of humans being top down, right, that we're a superior living being, it's we are a part of it.

And what is our role?

Which fits in perfectly.

You know what Laurie was saying in terms of the lawn, and this is funny because my husband and, and I have this discussion often, and we have this one row.

He has come a long way, Laurie.

He's no longer mowing the milkweed.

And and props to him because there's a few that he's mowing around.

But.

But you see the benefits of that.

There was a monarch butterfly on the milkweed yesterday because it's starting to grow a cluster, and it's just a small part next to our driveway.

And so, wow.

To to the value of our, our kids understanding that they have a role in this, along with all the other living beings and all the other living beings have value as well, then changes, how they choose to make decisions, how they speak, and actually how they behave.

I mean, this is now a culture of protecting animals and and especially the insects.

We rescue insects.

We don't kill the insects.

Students will tell on teachers if they kill a fly or anything.

It's happens.

It has happened.

And so, so it's it's really kind of exciting because like Larry said, that that child like feeling that a lot of us adults like when we return to nature, we're enhancing that.

Right.

And so, our students at a younger age are going to be making decisions that when they are home owners or when they, can make decisions as to where to invest money and things like that, they're choosing, eco systems and that eco world over other.

Yeah.

And I'm proud to say that I don't kill flies anymore.

I actually let them out.

Like, I open the window and I can see they want to get out.

So you're just.

I'm like, okay, I know you want to get out.

Just let me open the window for you, and you can go back to being a part of our ecosystem.

Right?

So I just wanted to just give myself a little credit here that, you know, I may be a future, you know, environmentalist.

You never know if journalism doesn't work out.

But I do have a caller on the line, a Laurie from Rochester.

She wants to talk about monarch butterflies.

She's seen lately.

Laurie, are you there?

Hello?

I'm here.

Hey, Laurie.

Yes, you.

You're you're live on the air.

You can, talk to our panelists.

I just wanted to say that I used.

First of all, I used to be a, The kids in the schools call them the Kodak scientists.

Kodak had a program called 21st Century Learning Challenge.

And we'd go into the classrooms and teach science.

And the most fun I had at any of those, teaching classes was when we took them outside to Kodak, to the pond, on Elm Grove, and we let them see what they could find out there.

But as far as monarchs, I've been, collecting eggs and caterpillars and raising monarchs.

Wow.

Taking them into the, senior centers where my parents have been.

So, I'm taking the food away from the birds, but I don't get that many.

But we get maybe a dozen a year.

But, Wow.

Lori, that's that's amazing.

I was actually going to, speak on that.

Like, why do we get so amazed when we see butterflies, right?

She spoke about bringing butterflies to the senior centers, and they love it.

Why do we all have that same reaction when we see a butterfly?

I think because they're not here very long.

I'm sorry.

Can you guys tell me.

About the pillars that changed from a caterpillar to a butterfly is totally illogical.

I know we think that.

Yeah.

Go ahead Lori.

That's what brings us to the, the yeah.

Is that if it were a logical progression like from a child to an adult okay.

That we could understand, but it's so hard to contemplate the caterpillar becoming a butterfly.

Wow.

Thank you.

Thank you, Lori, for sharing your story with us.

Kira, the the comment about why why are we so amazed by butterflies when there's tons of caterpillars?

Caterpillars like that and they're out there?

I think because they're fleeting and and they're, they're they can be hard to observe because they move around so much and they're, they're only here for a short amount of time.

So it's almost as if it's like a gift, right?

When you get to, to see or even see that first monarch or the first swallowtail or the first mourning cloak and, and, you know, different, different species of butterflies you'll see at different times of the year.

And so, you know, to me, when I, when the kids see it, they light up because it's fleeting and it's going by quickly, and not everybody has the opportunity to maybe see it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'll just add, I mean, it's it's it's fleeting, but also it brings hope and, and joy, honestly.

I mean, you see this, this monarch flying in a, you know, 40 acre meadow or something.

It's like, how is that small thing making it in this crazy world, you know, amongst all these threats with, you know, climate change, habitat loss, you know, change in, you know, development, etc.. So I think when you see that and knowing that they migrate thousands of miles, from Mexico and are just this amazing, amazing insect, it's just it really sparks amazement, hope and joy.

Yeah.

And, Lori, I know this is this is this is where you shine.

Why are butterflies so intriguing for such hope.

In, in general, our mental health, we are under such, time constraints all the time.

And we're as soon as you have a couple of moments to recharge.

It is amazing.

The studies have shown on how it reduces stress, reduces blood pressure, all of these things.

And this is something that, Kira was but kind of alluding to, is we need more pocket parks in our cities.

There is way too much blacktop, way too much heat island effect, and we should be able to soften all of those.

And everybody should have that experience right in our no matter where we are, you shouldn't have to go out all the way out to a farm to to see nature.

It should be able to just go out in your backyard and it can be done.

I am finding, some interesting terms now are coming about yard hardening.

So getting rid of your little tiny yards in the city and going back to gardens and, historically people did not used to have lawns.

They used the property to either grow food or they grew flower gardens.

That was kind of part of the, you know, the estate or the status symbol.

If you could afford to have gardeners.

And everybody was showing off and then we converted into these lawns is just kind of it.

It's, you know, like a desert as a, as Kevin had said.

So creating our own little oasis and getting nature right back in will help your physical and mental health tremendously.

And it increases.

Actually, academic studies have shown that it increases cognitive behavior and calming.

And all of that is just we are part of nature.

And I love what Cara Kim say.

We are part of nature and we need to embrace that.

Wow.

Beautiful.

And then we have the moth right?

Oh, oh, this pesky little.

Your nemesis, my nemesis.

I have a comment here from from Jeff.

He said, do you like green moths?

We have a green moth problem.

And have not been able to find a source.

I normally try not to kill my fellow Earthlings, but these moth are driving my wife nuts.

And if I don't eliminate them, she'll think I'm a worse.

So I've been slaughtering them.

Kind of feeling bad about it.

Same with Stinkbugs.

What?

Jeff, I don't want to give my opinion on this.

What are we supposed.

Why?

Because what I found interesting after I watched that documentary film.

And we'll talk about the screening.

Is that butter moths?

Butterflies are just off.

The is a mutation of moths, right?

I guess that's we can describe them.

So moths are are the most dominant, but we don't.

like them.

But and obviously Jeff doesn't either.

What should we learn about.

Why should we appreciate moths?

Why shouldn't Jeff kill kill his moths?

Well, green was I mean, nobody wants to eat.

I sometimes to buy grain and I. I'll find beetles in there.

So things have to be utilized quickly before eggs hatch.

You know, there are insects everywhere, and, but we do have to learn how to live with them.

Yes, stinkbugs are annoying.

And when certain populations get to a real point, yeah, we might have to battle them, but I think, understanding just even mosquitoes and how they are pesky understanding that they're part of the ecosystem.

But, having mosquitoes in your yard can be reduced because you have an ecosystem where you have dragonflies and where you have toads and, bats and things like that.

So you have to create that environment where things are kept in balance.

It's when they get out of balance that things become an issue.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's a that's a great point.

I have another comment here, from Julie.

For Kiera, I believe this is for Kiara.

Do you ever discuss or introduce students to how animals lower on the food chain, particularly those with short lifespans, are used as indicators of the overall health of the environment?

Yes, yes, often, and we actually work closely, with the Seneca Park Zoo during, city Nature Challenge.

And so, looking at the biodiversity and everybody's role, in, in terms of where they are within, within our, within our environment.

So, yes, absolutely.

And, you know, indicator species to, the importance of things like the sturgeon, especially local, we try to focus as much on our local ecosystem.

I think we talked about it earlier about how this is such a rich place for nature.

And you don't have to go very far.

And, and all of the community partners are working very hard to kind of grow this connection.

Whether it's the Maplewood Nature Center, that's that's online food link, taproot.

Helmer Nature Center, I'll be a part of of of them in west around the quite in July.

You know Genesee Land Trust everyone is working together and creating this incredible kind of connection.

And so looking at those keystone species like beaver and otter, sturgeon, like I said, that are, that are coming back to our, our local area because that is showing kind of the health of our ecosystems and what we need to be to be looking for, to be able to, to see the health of our water, our and our plants and our Burt, you know, all of the different pieces, all of the different, living things that make a healthy ecosystem.

Okay.

Awesome.

Kiran, I want to take this, our last caller, before we go into more details about our screenings, we want to get the community out there, to support this documentary film.

I have on the line here, Judith from Rochester.

Judith, you have a comment for our panelists?

Yes.

I, I just wanted to thank you all for this.

That's wonderful show today.

It's so important to hear about all of these wonderful creatures.

That gives life.

I mean, it is really just a celebration of of life and there's so vulnerable and so often times, people just disrespect and.

Yes.

And I'm just so happy that that you're giving this wonderful, this wonderful, presentation to this.

Great.

Thank you.

So thank you.

Thank you, Judith.

Thank you for that for that comment.

That was the powerful word we disrespect.

I felt like she was talking to me, because we don't appreciate.

And after after, you know, doing my research on this for this discussion, I'm like, wow, okay, maybe I will, approach nature a little differently, right?

Because everything, everything has a part to play.

Right?

And humans won't be able to survive without the small organisms like the caterpillar.

And we want to talk about the extraordinary caterpillar.

Right, Laurie.

And in this, this documentary film screening that that's coming up June 29th, can you tell the public about all our caterpillar enthusiast who may be interested how they can be a part of this?

So it's interesting, we were talking about just caterpillars and how the conversation keeps evolving into such a big, broader, area.

But just to focus on the caterpillars and find out what you can do, just, the documentary is so well done.

Yes.

And, Doctor Tammy is an amazing speaker and researcher, so just coming to see him and the film is fascinating in itself, but learning about the Caterpillar Lab and all of the great things that are going on with that, also, the, eco, no, I'm.

Oh, I'm drawing a blank right now.

I'm sorry, from Toronto, the other eco lab that's actually highlighted about all the community programs that they do.

So the panelists are going to compose, Dana, from the eco lab coming from Toronto, Kevin, talking about the Genesee Land Trust and all the great things that they've been doing.

Kira, in some more of the the nature based programing.

But the main goal is to inspire people to see what they can actually do and how much of a little tiny thing you can do for planting and have a huge impact, and how bringing all of these different groups together makes it even such more of a global impact.

And, that that's our goal.

And then to highlight the Saunders Finger Lakes Museum and another destination here in our Rochester Finger Lakes area.

There's just so much going on.

So I hope people will come.

The Dryden Theater is a great venue.

I mean, how can you, how often do you go to films there?

And probably we should do that more often.

But the contrast between the gardens outside at the George Eastman House, the old fashioned gardens, and then what we're going to be talking about is pretty dramatic.

But yeah, George Eastman House itself is noted for the beautiful gardens and the garden vibes and, all of the outdoor activities that they have, it's not just about the historic house and the historic person, it shows how how much Rochester has to give.

And I just think anybody that has the slightest interest in, in gardening at all, on a personal level to a bigger community, neighborhood level, really should be there, really.

And I watched the film a few times and I would say I'm very much, I would definitely give it five stars.

Right.

And just how, how, how detailed it is and how we get to see these in these creatures up close and how beautiful they are.

I think everyone will appreciate that.

So June 29th at the Dragon Theater?

Yes.

Yeah.

What time you.

Have to go online and purchase tickets ahead of time.

This is really important.

Now I just tried to show up and, the time is, 5:00, the doors open.

6:00 is when we will start.

Okay.

And.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Well, that's.

We're calling.

Calling one, calling all, to to witness extraordinary world of the caterpillar.

The screening of the documentary film by Jeff McKay.

All right.

Thank you all for joining me for this conversation was great.

It was great.

Let's do it again.

Thanks.

Do it again.

Thank you.

Kira.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you everybody.

Right.

And that's the end of WXXI connections.

This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.

Its staff, management, or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience, any rebroadcast or use in another medium, without express written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the connections link at WXXI news.org.