- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum," we dive into the critical importance of Black eyecare and the inspiring efforts to recruit and empower the next generation of Black eyecare professionals.

[uptempo music] - [Essence] It's important to have Black eyecare professionals because when people have doctors that they can identify with, their level of care and attention is better.

- Stay with us.

- [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[dramatic music] - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum."

I'm your host, Kenia Thompson.

The saying goes that our eyes are the windows to our soul, but today, we're going to talk about how they're also the windows to our health.

Many systemic conditions can manifest systems in the eyes such as diabetes, high blood pressure, and even certain autoimmune diseases.

Today we have two Black eyecare professionals here with us to educate us on why eyecare is important and how even more important it is to recruit the next generation of Black eyecare professionals.

I want to welcome to the show optometrist and co-founder of Black Eyecare Perspective, Dr. Darryl Glover, and optometrist and executive director of Black Eyecare Perspective, Dr.

Essence Johnson.

Welcome to the show.

- Thank you.

- Thank you so much for having us.

We're super excited about today.

- It is so great to have you here.

You guys look very dapper in your lenses today.

[Kenia laughs] - Thank you.

Well, hey, we knew we were gonna be on TV so we had to come fly - Right.

- and fresh and talk about - Right.

what we love, eyecare.

- Exactly.

It's only fitting.

So let's talk about the basics, let's start with it.

How exactly can we see into our eyes and what are the indicators that you're seeing in our eyes when you take a look?

- So, you know, it's a great question and I just want to first and foremost say, again, thank you so much for giving us this opportunity to have this conversation.

You know, when people think about eye exams or they think about optometrists, they think about glasses and contacts, but it's more than that.

It's a comprehensive eye exam.

And by looking in the eyes and checking the overall health of the eyes, we can determine so much that goes on with the body.

I mean, every day when I'm in that exam lane, I'm helping to help aid and diagnose various systemic conditions from autoimmune disorders to vascular related conditions to tumors, cancers, you name it.

I see so much by looking at the back of the eye.

As optometrists, we serve as the gatekeepers into the healthcare system.

So, you know, your eye exam really dictates what's going on with your body, so super excited to be able to do that day in and day out.

- Yeah, and we stumbled upon this conversation because Dr. Glover is my eye doctor.

[Darryl laughs] And you know, I don't know how we even came about it, but we just started talking about the importance of eye health, - Yes.

- and then we stumbled into this conversation of how important it is because of the symptoms that can arise.

Dr. Johnson, talk about some of those symptoms that people may experience that reveal that there might be an underlying issue.

- Yeah, so I think the important piece is to know that some of the issues that you may experience may be silent, which is why it's very important to come in, not only for that eye exam, but the comprehensive part of it is the dilation, the part that nobody likes.

They don't want the drops.

You know- - Talk about what dilation is.

Some people may not know.

- Yeah, so normally, when you go into an eye doctor's office, we want to see into the back of the eye.

And to do that, we look into your pupil, so that dark part in the center.

And in order for us to do that, we would like to have an enlarged or dilated view.

So a lot of times we do that with the use of drops.

Normally it's one, two, three drops.

[doctors laugh] We gotta numb you first and then normally there's about one or two that we put in that helps make that pupil a little bit larger so we can get a complete view of all of the blood vessels in the back.

There's also some practices that use imaging, which is perfectly acceptable too.

The key part is we need to see into the back of the eye because you can see, what we call 20/20, that's normally the perfect vision, but that doesn't mean that you have perfect health in the back of the eye.

So people can see perfectly fine, and inside, things are leaking, bleeding, even swelling, and you would not even notice some of those subtle changes if it wasn't for a complete and comprehensive eye exam.

- Wow.

- And that's a good call out.

You know, your eyes are the only place that you can actually see live blood vessels.

So if we see bleeding in the back of the eye, we know that's probably taking place throughout the entire body.

- Oh.

- So again, we are truly the gateway into the healthcare system.

So by having those comprehensive eye exams, we're able to connect our patients with a endocrinologist, with a rheumatologist, with an oncologist, just depending on what we find.

So very important to get those dilate exams, but most importantly, a comprehensive eye exam, which is really checking the entire health of the eyes.

- Now, some people may say, you know, "I've had perfect eyesight my whole life.

I don't need to go to the eye doctor."

There's nothing prompting them to go, right?

And then more importantly, people will say, "Oh, eye problems don't run in my family."

How is that an indicator if it is, you know, hereditary or not?

Can we start eye problems within our lineage?

Like, how does that work?

- I mean, it's very important to get a comprehensive eye exam every day.

- [Speaker] Yeah.

- Right, let the doctors do the determining if you need glasses or contacts or some type of corrective lenses.

But again, you have to check the overall health of the eyes.

Your eyes determine so much with the body.

Genetics play a role, no doubt about it, right?

So if there's a family history of glaucoma, family history of hypertension, diabetes, we definitely wanna make sure that you're coming in and sometimes it may be multiple visits throughout the year, but very important to make sure that you are getting those comprehensive eye exams.

- I think it's definitely one of those myths that we talk about.

- Yeah.

- That everyone's like, I don't need to get my eyes checked.

What I like to tell people is, you have two eyes.

You need to get them checked.

- Right.

- You may have one eye, get that one checked, you know?

[person laughing] It is just like our regular annual physical.

- [Speaker] Yeah.

- We don't always feel a certain way.

We don't always wanna give a urine or stool or a blood sample.

The eyes are that initial test that we need to have done.

So even if you feel like everything's okay, we hear that a lot.

We just had a conversation with someone earlier and they were like, oh no, but I see okay.

But I'm watching you squinting on the screen.

- Literally this morning.

- I see tears running down your cheek.

You know, there's a lot of things for some reason, even though our eyes are our most precious sense, people tend to overlook or defer some of the things that are happening.

So if you even feel at the computer, things are a little bit blurry.

- Yeah.

- If you've stepped outside one time and a tear just happened to trickle down your cheek, you need an eye exam.

So all of the things that we're examining is not always visual.

Some of it is sensual, some of it is physical inside of the body.

So I would implore and recommend everyone.

- Yeah.

- You have not had an eye exam in 2024 and it's still young and early to get your eyes examined and do not wait until you feel or you are seeing problems.

'Cause oftentimes that is a little bit too late and it often limits what we can do for you in terms of preventative type of factors.

- You know, I like something that you touched on.

You don't really see or feel things.

And one thing that really plagues our community is glaucoma.

- I was just going there, yes.

- Dr. Johnson.

I'd love for you to maybe even expand on glaucoma 'cause you're an expert in that realm.

Right, so it's very important for our patients to get these comprehensive eye exams because with glaucoma, you can lose your peripheral vision and just end up with just central vision, right?

And when you get to that point, it's too late and you're not gonna feel anything.

You're not gonna notice anything because it's a slow disease.

- And is that something more common in the black community?

- Absolutely, no doubt about it.

- Now why is that?

Is that because we're more prone to it or is it because we're not going to the eye doctor enough?

- I think it's a combination of things.

The prevalence has been a little bit higher.

I think that kind of the loss of vision that may be associated is higher because of just our lack of education and awareness around the condition.

Now I will say working in a community health setting where a majority of my patients are black and Hispanic, then yes, we do see glaucoma a lot, just a lot more in just a general population.

But I think that the pieces is when is the point that I'm seeing them and being able to begin treatment or some of those baseline studies.

I think some of the parts that sometimes get lost upon our community in particular is that genetic component.

There's a lot of things that mama and them just don't talk about.

Or we think that once we're being treated in this case with drops, then we're good.

You know, and then it's always really nice when you have a practice where you're able to see multiple family members.

So whether it's the mom and the dad and the siblings or even the grandparents.

So you can kind of see the trends.

So there are some characteristics when we are talking about glaucoma, we're talking about the back of the eye.

We're talking about inside your optic nerve that connects the eye to the brain.

And normally there's some sort of enlargement of that nerve.

And we always like to use like the donut analogy.

So a donut has a hole in the center and then, who wants a donut that doesn't have any rim, that is glaucoma.

When we're losing all of that rim tissue, that is our functional component of the nerve.

So that is why now we're losing peripheral vision little and little over time.

And I think the important piece is, is if you are the person in your family that may be a glaucoma suspect or even diagnosed with glaucoma, it behooves the rest of your family to also get examined because you sharing that diagnosis with your family members may literally be the difference between sight and blindness.

Having earlier intervention is typically the key when it comes to glaucoma.

- So we talk about earlier intervention, I know for example, with my son, it was a few years ago, I noticed that he wasn't identifying colors the right way, and I was like, "Caleb, are you really?"

Because he's a jokester.

[man laughing] I was like, "Are you playing around with us?"

Or, "What color is this?"

He was like, "Mom, it's not red," [laughs] - Yeah.

- And I go, "Well, how do you know what red is anyway?"

- Yeah.

- So, when we talk about [laughs] [man chuckling] early indicators, it can start as early as childhood, right?

five, six, seven, I mean, what does that look like?

- [Woman] In utero.

- Oh, wow.

- How about that?

I think that's some of the myths that happen in our community, too, that you don't have to start checking your eyes until you start using them for, like, school, for instance.

- [Woman] Exactly.

- Yeah.

- We use our eyes the moment that we come out of the womb, and we've been seeing a lot, I think just more, I see all the time on social media, someone's posting a picture of their child, and the light reflex, - [Man] Yep.

- Looks a little off.

So, we've been seeing a lot of things.

- You can see that in the picture?

- [Man] Oh, yeah.

- Oh, yeah.

Look at photographs, look at, like, baby monitors, look at how your child is just developing.

You know, as a parent, we're looking at every little milestone and comparing them to friends.

So, I think that one of our biggest opportunities is making sure that your children are getting their eyes examined before preschool age.

You know, being someone who is an eye doctor, my children were right in there in the first few months of life, and people are like, "You can get your eyes examined?"

Yes, there are specialists for everything, - [Woman] Yeah.

- In our profession, and there are the lovely professionalists that love children.

- [Man] Oh, yeah.

- And will examine newborn babies, [man laughing] and have all of the equipment, and all of the patients to make sure that the eyes are developing correctly.

So, I think, even at a young child, my children, too, they're sitting in that chair, and they're getting dilated.

- Yeah.

- They don't love it, but Mommy knows what is best, and the whole family is getting, you know, not only their vision checked, but we're getting our eye movement checked, we're getting, physically, our nerves checked, because if there's things that's running in our respective families, I want to be proactive to ensure that we identify that at an earlier age, because definitely, when it comes to anything in healthcare, the earlier that we can determine what is going on, whether you have symptoms or not, just overall, our outcomes are a lot better.

- Yeah, and the American Optometric Association, they recommend that kids get their eyes examined at six months to 12 months of age, age three to five, and then every year after five, so it's very important.

Your eyes determine what's going on with the body, and then when you think about, you know, how successful a kid can be in a classroom, you know, if they can't see, they're not gonna perform at a high level.

- [Woman] That's true.

- They're gonna get headaches, they're gonna get tired eyes.

- [Woman] Yeah.

- There's a lot that goes into what an eye exam can produce and provide better outcomes for that student, but, again, for their overall body, as well, so very important to get those eye exams.

- Let's talk quickly about access.

- [Dr.

Essence] Yeah.

[man chuckling] - So, obviously we know that we should be.

- [Man] Absolutely.

- But some people can't.

- [Man] Yeah.

- So, how do those out there that potentially can't regularly or feel like they can't, how do they get access to eye health care?

- So, fantastic question, I know this is one of your sweet spots.

- [laughs] Yeah, I think a lot of times, when we think of eye care, you know, you're going to a MyEyeDr.

setting.

You're seeing Dr. Glover in some of this private or corporate practice, people go to other chains and retailers.

I've had the opportunity to work in a community and correctional health setting, so that's improving access.

You're thinking, "Oh, our inmates need "eyecare and healthcare?"

Yeah, in a lot of our correctional health facilities, there is a whole healthcare operation going on behind those doors and behind those bars.

- [Woman] Uh-huh.

- Then, we have community health settings, which is another place where, if you are underinsured or uninsured, there is a lot of places in respective cities and states where you can go and provide care.

Now, when we're talking of access and that, it may not be as easy to just call up and get an appointment within the next week or the next month, people are often on very long waiting lists.

- [Man] Yeah.

- I think the other part that is available, and I've been using this a lot in the school setting that I now work and practice in, is leveraging all of our different eyecare partners, a lot of them have philanthropic arms that are there to provide care.

So, not only have we been able to provide care in jail settings, in our regular clinical practice settings, but we can provide the same level of care on a mobile unit van.

- Oh, nice.

- We can bring in equipment, and we have completely transformed, you know, whole centers into a, you know, four-lane optometric practice, and have been able to dilate patients, give them that comprehensive care, refer them to where it is.

So, it's a matter of, and this is kind of my call to our colleagues, - I told her, - You know, [woman chuckles] - That's her thing, right?

- That's her thing.

- She's fired up.

- Volunteer your time, you know?

We have our patients that we see in our regular practice, but, to that point, there are millions, if not hundreds of millions of other people, that rely on some of these other opportunities, and, you know, ask your eyecare provider for a voucher.

- [Man] Yeah.

- You know, we have other ways to ensure that people have access to care, and especially children, too.

- [Woman] Right.

- They have access to care, not only in examining the eyes, but also getting the materials.

I think that's the other piece we have to worry on.

- Right.

- You can get your eyes examined, and you can get that piece of paper.

- [Woman] Exactly.

- But it means nothing if we cannot transform that prescription into a pair of glasses that are stylish, - Yeah.

- That are clear, and that provides you the confidence that you also need to go about your day-to-day life.

- And just To add one more layer to that, - [Host] Sure.

- we have to meet patients where they are, right?

- Indeed.

- And we're in a society or an age where patients want healthcare on demand.

So there's teleoptometry.

At MyEyeDr, we have a fantastic program, our video-assisted eye exams, where we do a form of tele optometry.

And that has increased the access to our patients that may not be able to get in right away.

I mean, when patients come to see me, I'm booked four or five months out.

- [Host] Right.

- But they may need an eye exam.

And we have this resource that provides a comprehensive eye exam where we're looking at the front of the eye, we're looking at the back of the eye.

We're taking images, we're diagnosing glaucoma, we're finding tumors, we're doing all types of stuff.

But it's very important that you do align yourself as a patient with a brand that is reputable, but also a brand that actually puts patients first.

And for me, when it comes to looking at things like that, I always align my purpose with the organization that I partner with.

And in our organization, it's all about helping patients live their best lives.

- Beautiful.

- So access is a problem, but there's tons of different modes of optometry that you can step into depending on what your background is or your access is.

And you can build from there.

- Great place to put a pause right there.

We know that black individuals remain the most underrepresented in the spaces of ophthalmology and optometry.

North Carolina, however, is home to some of the most prestigious programs.

Here's this week's Melanin Moment on educational opportunities here in North Carolina.

[celestial music] North Carolina is home to optometry and ophthalmology training programs that actively promote diversity and inclusion.

Professional associations and organizations in North Carolina are committed to supporting black eye care professionals and fostering a diverse workforce.

Institutions such as the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine, High Point University, and Wake Forest University School of Ophthalmology, provide educational opportunities for aspiring eye care professionals, including black students.

Through mentorship programs, leadership development initiatives, and professional networks, these individuals play a crucial role in encouraging and supporting the next generation of black eyecare professionals.

[upbeat music] All right.

So we've seen from that clip that I'm alluding to the fact that we need more of you of who looks like us in this space.

- No doubt.

- I wanna define first 'cause I was like, "What is the difference?"

Ophthalmology and optometry, so that our folks know what that means.

- [Dr. Johnson] Oh are you looking at me for that one?

- You're a teacher, you like to- - Oh, I wanna hear from you.

What is it, Dr. Glover?

- So I'll define optometry.

I'll let Dr. Johnson do ophthalmology.

- Okay.

- But when it comes to optometry, just to break it down from top to bottom.

We are eye doctors that prescribe corrective lenses and provide overall ocular health eye exams, right.

Meaning we look at the front of the eye, we look at the back of the eye, we diagnose, we treat, we manage.

And it all depends on what you can do as far as scope on what your license allows you to in that state.

For optometry, it's four years undergrad, and then four years in optometry school.

You have the option to also do a residency if you wanna specialize in something, or if you want to teach at a later point.

There are programs that have three year programs for optometry that's more accelerated.

And that's the school up in Philadelphia, Salus University that we both actually graduated from.

So shout out to Salus University.

- Yes.

- But that's what it takes to become an optometrist essentially and what an optometrist is.

- Okay, all right.

Now to you, Dr. Johnson.

- Yeah, so I think along those same veins.

It's always important to highlight like the path to optometry and ophthalmology starts the same.

So you're gonna go into that undergraduate program.

It's typically four years, and then it's your determination of are you gonna take the Optometry Admissions Test or the MCAT, the medical admissions test.

So for those that go and take the MCAT, you're going into medical school, you're gonna go through your medical training and programming, and then there is a point within your medical training that you have to choose a discipline.

So go into your residency program.

There are not that many ophthalmology residency programs.

So it is highly selective and highly competitive.

And as we imagine there are not a lot of black ophthalmologists in that space.

Ophthalmologists kind of differing from optometry, you're going that medical route.

So things tend to be a lot more surgical.

We work a lot with ophthalmologists in terms of our different specialties.

So we have general ophthalmology, but then all of those little pieces of the eye has a specialist.

So if you're getting cataract surgery, there is a specific ophthalmologist for that.

- Okay.

- If you have problems in the retina, so we talked a little bit about diabetes, glaucoma, even there is a particular ophthalmologist for that piece.

As well as every little part of this little bitty eye has a specialist for it.

- Wonderful.

Thank you for breaking that down before you- - [Dr. Glover] And there's one more too.

- Okay, all right.

- You can be an optician, right.

And those are the folks that go to school for about two years, and they're the ones that really study the lens technology, right.

- [Host] Gotcha.

- So you want to always add that piece in there, because there's always some confusion between the three.

- Gotcha.

So real quickly, let's get into representation in this space, and then I want to go into my Black Eyecare Perspective and the work that you're doing.

So let's talk about the lack of representation and how you guys are solving that.

Dr. Glover we'll go to you first.

- Yeah, there's a major lack of representation in eye care.

But let's even start from the top, the big picture.

We need more optometrists, right?

We don't have enough.

That's why they continue to build schools.

And what we've have found is that tapping into the market of more Black representation can really help save eye care.

Because right now we're currently sitting at about 2% of optometrists that are Black.

And when you think about that, that's sad.

- [Host] Two percent?

- Yeah.

- [Host] Wow.

- Yeah, two percent.

That are practicing, right?

So there's a lot of room for opportunity, a lot of room for providing better healthcare outcomes, eyecare outcomes with these patients.

But there's definitely a lack of Black optometrists, and it doesn't just stop there.

There's a lack of optometrists that are professors at these optometry schools.

There's a lack of Black representation when it comes to marketing materials.

There's a lack of Black representation in the boardroom, in optometry or eyecare.

There's a lack rep of representation, just pretty much across all realms of eyecare.

So we really want to push that number ahead.

And we have a lot of exciting initiatives that I know we're gonna tap in today.

- Yeah, we've got like four minutes left in the show.

It's gone so fast already.

Let's talk about what those initiatives are, how you work with historically Black universities and where you see this going.

- Yeah, so the mission of Black Eyecare perspective was to really create that pipeline for Black students into our profession of optometry.

I think when we talk about representation, optometry in and of itself is a minority in healthcare.

Even to be highlighted today is tremendous for our profession because a lot of not having representation is because people don't know that we exist or people do not understand the pathway to becoming an eyecare professional.

So with Black Eyecare Perspective, we have literally taken that to heart.

We definitely want to be the change that we wanna see.

There were some, a lot of initiatives going on back in the day where, you know, government funded programs where they're like, go and get more Black students into this profession.

Once those government programs lost funding.

So did our pipeline, you know?

And so we are putting that focus back on, we need more eyecare professionals.

We can also have more eyecare professionals that are people of color if we go into the places that the students of color are in.

And so that is why we had a focus on historically Black colleges and universities.

I'm a product of one, I'm a proud panther of Prairie View A&M University, where we produce productive people, which means we also produce productive eyecare professionals.

And there are hundreds of other HBCUs that are doing the same.

So with Black Eyecare Perspective, we have gone on what we like to call our impact HBCU tour.

And we have gone onto the campuses of like Florida A&M University, North Carolina Central University.

We have been to a handful of schools to one, promote the profession of optometry, identify those students who naturally have said, I want to be an optometrist.

And the thing holding them back is just information.

The part holding them back is knowing how to connect to our profession, knowing how to navigate the application process.

And we have seen, by going into these campuses, we have been able to not only recruit, but retain those students that have been interested in our profession and see that 2% go up one more percent over this time.

And it is our goal to continue to increase it percent over percent until we at least match our representation in the world.

- We have a minute left.

Share with folks how to get in touch with you if they'd love to support this mission.

- Sure.

And thank you again so much for this opportunity.

And I just want everyone to realize that your site is the most precious sense that we have known to mankind.

- [Host] Yeah.

- I mean, close your eyes and imagine just maneuvering through the world without vision.

Black Eyecare Perspective is here to make a change, to make an impact.

And we want everyone out there to really visit our website.

You can go to www.

blackeyecareperspective.com and check us out, follow us on social media.

But most importantly, donate to the cause, right?

We wanna continue to push these initiatives forward, but we have to also have the funding to make that magic happen, right?

And on our website, you're able to make that donation.

And we're calling out all companies out there, right?

Because we wanna make a change, and together we can make this effective change.

- Thank you so much, Dr. Glover.

Dr. Johnson, thank you for being here with us, and we thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag Black Issues Forum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum, and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenya Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

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