Lakeland Currents.

Your public affairs program for north central Minnesota.

Production funding for Lakeland Currents is made possible by Bemidji Regional Airports.

Serving the region with daily flights to Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport.

More information available at bemidjiairport.org.

Closed captioning for Lakeland Currents is sponsored by Nisswa Tax Service.

Tax preparation for businesses and individuals.

Online at nisswatax.com.

Hello again friends.

I'm Jason Eden, your host of Lakeland Currents.

Thanks for joining the conversation today and thanks for your ongoing support of Lakeland Public TV.

From Mille Lacs to the Mississippi Headwaters many lakes and rivers within our region are infested with aquatic invasive species or AIS.

How concerned should we be?

Is this a fight we're winning or is it a losing cause?

What can you do about it?

Here to help us answer those questions and more are my two guests today.

Dana Gutzmann is the point person on AIS for Cass County and Susan Koering is the President of the Pelican Lake Association.

Dana and Susan welcome to the program and thanks for making time for our conversation.

Thanks Jason.

Thank you for having us.

Absolutely.

Well, first of all Dana, I have a question for you.

Your role at the county is full-time and from my perspective that really suggests that this is a big problem.

Can you tell me what you do on a day-to-day basis at the county?

Yes, day to day is kind of a tough question because it is always changing.

Summertime, it's a lot more focused on actual AIS monitoring, working with the inspectors at the different accesses, doing some outreach with resorts and a lot with the lake associations as well.

I attend lake association annual meetings and some of the bigger lake associations that do regular board meetings I like to attend those when they invite me too.

Which is really nice for that education and engagement with the public.

Day-to-day I'm also doing some data work, looking at the inspections from last year, working on the reports, getting stuff together for next season.

I'm really excited this year to be doing a lot more resort outreach coming up here.

So, I get to go to the North Country Buyers Show next week which this may not have aired yet by then but I'm really excited to engage with some resorts there at the casino in Walker.

I get to participate at Frost Fest on February 26th on Leech Lake and do some AIS education games with the kids so.

Interesting.

It really is a varied position.

But it sounds diverse.

Yes, finding things to do year round is not an issue right now.

Okay.

Well, Susan in your case as the President of the Pelican Lake Association, what's your role in this fight against AIS.

Thank you Jason.

AIS has definitely been an issue with us since 2012 on Pelican Lake.

Actually, Pelican Lake and Little Pelican which is in Crow Wing County.

So, since 2012 we've had an infestation in Big Pelican with zebra mussels and prior to that we've had some curly leaf pond weed, but that's been the extent of it.

But we're trying to stay on top of it since Lake Ossawinnamakee in 2003 was infested and then we started to get some management plans going.

So, we were always watching for our invasion in our lake.

Interesting.

Well, before we get too far, I'm curious to know how many of these species are in our region Dana?

Are we talking about one or 100?

So, in Cass County we do have starry stonewort which is kind of the new kid on the block for AIS.

It is in Leech Lake and Cass and really our region has the most starry stonewort going Leech Lake and north.

The only one down in the Cities is Lake Koronis.

So we also have zebra mussels in a handful of lakes.

I'd say four or five offhand but I'd slow down to count them.

We have eurasian water milfoil just in I think four lakes in the county.

Those are actually being treated and managed very well by our lake associations and the infestations are not real large with those.

And then we do have some curly leaf pond weed and kind of the less talked about AIS mystery snail.

So there's Chinese and banded mystery snails and those are the AIS that if you were to go out to the edge of your lakeshore property, you're really probably likely to see them.

They were spread around a little earlier before the big AIS fight got really involved.

So, there are more lakes than you would think they're in but we're really lucky that they weren't zebra mussels because they really don't have the impact on the lake ecology that we see with AIS like zebra mussels.

Well, speaking of zebra mussels they're in Pelican as you just mentioned Susan.

Where did they come from originally?

Zebra mussels came from actually, they're from a European area over into even the Caspian Sea and the Black Sea and coming through the roots of transportation eventually ended up in the ballasts of boats and into the Great Lakes.

Into the St. Lawrence Seaway and then eventually came and by 1989 was in Lake Superior.

Well, relating to zebra mussels first of all.

So, they came all the way from Central Asia through ballast water to the Duluth port and then to central Minnesota.

Through transportation of boats.

Our rotation of boats throughout the state.

In 1989 it was on Lake Superior and then it was into the Mississippi and then it eventually came to our lakes through a transport of fishermen and transported boats or even other watercraft.

That's a long journey.

Yes.

Well, why are zebra mussels even a big deal?

My understanding is that zebra mussels actually increase water clarity and water clarity is positively correlated with property values.

So, what's the big deal?

Which one of us do you want to take that?

Dana?

Well, let me.

I guess I'll start with saying just the impacts on the lake ecology in general.

There's some good studies out there being done by the Minnesota Aquatic Invasive Species Research Center showing the effects that they have on walleye growth in the year of young in particular.

So, first year walleyes aren't getting as big in zebra mussel infested lakes which would then affect their winter survival rates.

Walleyes do a little better in some of the more turbid waters.

They don't do as good in the crystal clear waters.

I'm sure Susan can elaborate on some stuff.

Well, many people ask me well what does a zebra muscle look like?

It looks like a more the letter D but it's got also a little, call it's a basil that comes out of it that helps it fluctuate into the waters.

When the zebra mussels are created or when the veligers are laid, which is one zebra mussel can lay up to thirty thousand veligers within one cycle and up to a million in a season.

So, within a couple weeks they end up attaching to hard surfaces and that's how they materialize but they can siphon up to a liter of water a day which takes all the nutrients and all the phyloplankton and some of the minimal zooplankton out of the water which is nourishment for other minnows and in fish and then it clears the water because it takes all the nutrients out and then they also release the bacteria that they don't want and then that's in our waters.

So, I'm hearing you say that basically it's competition.

Zebra mussels are competing with indigenous or endemic organisms and that's really the challenge.

Is that right?

Yes.

So, if if zebra mussels got here in 1989, when did AIS really come onto the radar in the State of Minnesota?

The state funding for the county programs I believe was 2014.

So, that's where they really started saying all right each individual county, you get this set amount based on your number of public water accesses and public parking spots for boat trailers at those water accesses and please use this money to help in the AIS prevention.

So, prior to that we weren't really doing anything?

We weren't doing a lot at the statewide levels.

Interesting.

Correct.

It's interesting because we're doing a history book on the lake so I've been doing a lot of research and even back when Lake Ossawinnamakee was initiated with zebra mussels in 2003, in 2004 there was this big discussion and there was also how do we eradicate them?

The same discussion and here all of a sudden it's 2022 and where are we with it?

Well, that's what I want to talk about now.

What do we do about this?

So, for example and in Pelican Lake it is infested right now.

What can you do at the lake level to actually mitigate or even eliminate an infestation?

What's the strategy Dana?

So, right now there is no approved lake wide treatment of zebra mussels.

So, there's research being undertaken.

I think that that research hopefully is really going in some positive directions but we are talking years before we see some of that research technique really hit the lakes.

Did I hear you say that nothing really is approved right now to address an infestation of zebra mussels?

Of zebra mussels specifically.

Yes.

But yet Susan didn't Pelican Lake just try some sort of lake wide strategy?

It has been known within prior to coming to Pelican Lake last July, they have done work on Lake Minnetonka on testing copper with the use of zebra mussels.

So, what they wanted to do was try some different lakes with different ecology or water quality and see what the difference was in the dosage of the copper that they're utilizing and its effects on also minnows.

Minnows, other fish.

Daphnia is another one.

When they came for 20 days in July on property on the east side of Pelican, they had eight tanks with not only the veligers of the zebra mussels and testing the water as it came out of the lake but they also looked at other four other fish and native snails to see what the dosage of the copper needed to be to not affect the other water life versus the veligers or the zebra mussels.

I want to make sure I'm understanding you.

Are you saying that they applied copper to the lake or they tried this treatment outside of the lake in some sort of experimental tank?

They took the water from the lake into these different tanks on a daily basis over 10 days even though they were there for 20 days and they would test different dilutions of the copper on these specimens that they had in the tanks and then they would have to, they could not put the water back into the lake.

It had to be disposed elsewhere.

Because it's not approved right?

Not approved.

They were able to get approval to do an in bay study at Lake Minnetonka prior to the study on Pelican Lake.

So, that was kind of the groundwork of and it's a low-dose copper zebra mussel suppression technique.

So, what they're actually I think were trying to fine-tune and looking at that water chemistry which is really has different effects on it.

So, they're looking at different lakes with different water chemistry to try to see how low of a dose of copper they can put into the system to still kill the zebra mussel veligers but not have the effects or lower the effects on the other species like fat head minnows, daphnia, walleye.

So, they're just furthering that study and research.

Interesting.

So, what did they learn here at Pelican Lake?

We haven't had the results yet because they were working on it through the winter.

So, is this moving us in the direction where we could apply this at the whole lake level?

Is that the goal with these studies potentially?

I had understood that they could only treat a half a portion of a lake at a time.

Because of toxicity or why is that?

Well, you realize you have other wildlife you have other wildlife in the waters and especially minnows that are affected by especially affected by the copper.

So, you want to have the most minimal dose and when you broadly treat that's it's affecting all the other life in the water.

The entire lake ecology.

Is it harmful to humans?

It should not be.

We don't know yet?

Okay.

So.

it's to be determined.

So, this is really cutting edge research because we don't yet have an answer for how to eliminate an infestation.

Is what i'm hearing is that right?

Yeah and that's why they aren't looking at those whole lake applications.

Yeah, they're doing their diligence.

They're finding out the effects that it has on all the other species to figure out is do the benefits outweigh the cost and what are those costs?

How can we decide if we don't know what it's going to cost the lake.

Okay.

Now you use the term suppression not elimination.

Is that because we're trying to manage our expectations or because we don't actually think we can eliminate them?

How does that work?

With the low-dose copper, that technique that they're speaking about and the fact that more than likely we wouldn't get to a point where we could do the whole lake it probably would just be suppression because those veligers are releasing like Susan said up to a million eggs a season.

Those veligers from zebra mussels living on the other side of the lake can still go around the lake.

They are doing more research.

There's some I hate to say the word bio-control efforts research being conducted because that can be a scary word for people depending on how you understand it but.

What does it mean?

So, working on, see this is where you're getting into the science that I don't want to mess anything up, but I believe they're actually working on an MRNA technique similar to what we all know with our Covid vaccines so that the zebra mussels would not be able to, Susan you're going to have to help me out on this, reproduce and continue to do what they do.

So whether and I don't think they like, this is would be the cutting edge.

This is all in the lab, but I think they're trying to figure out where they could use this.

So, would they use it to affect that thread that they attach by?

Would they use it on their filtering capacity?

How can they affect the zebra mussels so that they can't continue to survive as well as they do?

The idea is try to eliminate the viligers because eventually they grow to be the zebra mussels and the more you can go up front eventually that should take that away.

But zebra muscles over a period of time can eat themselves out.

So, there's times in the one year might be less than other years.

For instance, under my dock, there's there could be a lot and I'm out there trying to get them up and take them out, well that's where I found you just don't put them in a box because they live a while and then they also start smelling.

So, it's an experience that you never know until you try something.

Interesting.

Well, we're focused right now just on zebra mussels but the strategy for suppressing AIS must be specific to the species, right?

So, when we're looking at some of these other AIS that are in Cass County or Crow Wing County, how do we deal with some of those other species?

So, you mentioned starry stonewort.

Is that correct?

Yes.

And there's curly leaf pond weed.

Thank you.

So, what are the strategies for addressing either one of those?

The curly leaf pond weed is a little bit more straightforward.

There's been some chemical treatments and mechanical treatments to work on those.

Curly leaf pond weed is nice in the fact that it likes to grow early before our native plants.

So, chemical treatments when applied at the appropriate time and the appropriate temperatures can be done in an effective way to decrease the growth of the curly leaf pond weed and not harm as many native plants as if it was a different growing season in time.

If you get that curly leaf pond weed suppressed at the beginning of that growing season, they don't put out their turions which are like a seed for regrowth.

So, years after years if you keep getting it before that regrowth, that seed is being planted you can knock down that plant.

Okay.

So, that's curly leaf pond weed and then starry stonewort just briefly, I'm assuming there's a different strategy altogether or no strategy?

So, starry stonewort, we don't have an effective technique.

The best thing, I shouldn't say the best thing is catching it small and then we stand a chance.

Right now with the current research there are some chemical treatments but they don't seem to, it's still spreading throughout lakes that are using those chemical treatments.

It's an algae not a vascular plant so those chemicals have to hit every part of the plant to kill it instead of like eurasian water milfoil or curly leaf pond weed where it gets taken up into the system.

So, it is a different beast.

At Leech Lake we used a diver assisted suction harvesting with the Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe and the DNR and that's really exciting.

There's some planning in the works for some more research on that to make to see if it is going to be an effective control of starry stonewort.

And that's the new kid on the block?

That's the new kid on the block.

So, there's a lot to learn there yet.

So it seems like the best approach then is managing the infestations and ensuring that they don't spread to other lakes correct?

Yes.

So, tell me about how lake associations and the public sector whether it's the county or the state, how are the two of you collaborating?

Now I understand that you two are in different counties, so you two may not be working together directly but assuming you were in the same county, how do, how does a lake association partner with the county?

Well, we the county has been given money through the DNR to do so many inspections in their water accesses and for instance on Pelican we have four accesses.

Three of them are public.

So, with their checking on the number in the past and checking how many inspections are done, we're allotted so many inspections in a season.

So, each of our four accesses are allowed at 520 inspection hours because we have two and a half inspections an hour and that's how they tabulate that.

So, it's important that when the boat comes in that they're clean before they go into the water and then when they come out they're also checked.

So, the thought is the clean, dry, drain and dry method to make sure your your boat is clean and it's drained.

The plugs are out and then it's dry and before you go to another boat access, you should at least be out for five days or go to a decon station which is high water, high hot water powered like over 120 degrees and also make sure that you dispose of your bait because the bait is also carrying that water from one place to another.

So, to utilize bottled water or well water to utilize with your bait.

So, how many users of our incredible lakes know about the importance of cleaning, draining and drying, clean, drain, drying?

More people are doing it than you think.

Okay.

99 percent of boats arriving in Cass County last year that were inspected by Cass County inspectors arrived without their drain plugs in.

So, we inspected 26,000 boats.

So, 260 people either didn't know the law or honestly we see a lot of well I just live two houses down.

Right.

So, that's I mean that information people have gotten it.

It's been a law since 2010 that you have to have that drain plug out when you're traveling.

So, I think people are really learning that they're really doing it.

Cleaning the trailers is important.

Understanding the bait water connection.

That water in your motor.

You need to tilt your motor down after you get out of the access to drain the residual water out of there.

You'll get a cup or two out of it depending on the size of the motor and the make, which is the reason you do that is those zebra muscle veligers again.

They could be in that water.

The other big thing like you said not really the bait water but not throwing the bait back into the lake too.

That's one where people are often unaware still that we're really still working to get that education out.

So, there's risk of disease with the bait.

They're in crowded spaces together.

So, if one gets sick, they're more likely to all get sick.

The other thing with bait is carp can get into those minnows too.

So, if depending on where your bait is collected and where you buy your bait, there is a risk that you have carp in there and they look a lot like some of the minnows that we use.

So, if you're doing the right thing, you feel like it's a good thing.

I'm gonna just put this bait into the lake and fish are gonna eat it but it's actually a really high risk to release that live bait.

So, there are all these different vectors that pose a risk but the county, the state can't monitor all lakes right?

There are certainly lakes, I mean Pelican Lake is kind of an iconic lake right?

But there are many smaller lakes that don't necessarily have monitored accesses is that right?

So, what are we doing there?

That's where we have to hope that our education is really getting out there.

Those people arriving at Pelican with their drain plugs out are doing those same steps.

We're changing behavior.

We're getting people to do clean, drain, dry, dispose everywhere they're going.

That the county also allows for you, if you're on a particular lake and you don't have any infestations such as we have Little Pelican that doesn't, we can take a test monitor in and have it checked.

So, we have people aware of and doing that process.

Some folks are using our beautiful lakes again not through a public access but through a resort access.

So, what are you doing on Pelican Lake in order to educate resort owners about that risk or that vector?

Well, Breezy Point definitely is one of our accesses even though and they do get the hours for, so they also have the state monitor or the county monitors or inspectors that they're at the site and they get those 520 hours also.

So, Dana you mentioned earlier that you work with a lot of resorts and you'll be attending an event here shortly, tell us a little bit more about what you do in order to make sure that our resorts are partners in this fight and not culprits?

Yeah, every resort I've interacted with in the last year has been really receptive.

They do care.

They are busy busy people as you can imagine running seasonal resorts.

So, they're I think a lot of them really have the best of intentions in mind.

One of the things that my big projects for the summer is getting all of the resorts the informational signs to stop aquatic hitchhikers.

Giving people that information at the access.

Maybe they only go to their house and then that resort and back home and they don't ever go to public access for that education.

So, we want to make sure that those resorts have those signs and information and especially resorts on infested waters.

Making sure they have the infested water signs that the DNR puts up at all the public accesses.

We're making sure the resorts have those signs too.

So, I'll be traveling around and just talking to all the resorts and giving them the signs, the information, education to hang on the fridges or put wherever at the resorts.

How do we monitor lakes that we haven't necessarily been monitoring to date because there hasn't been an infestation?

How are we how are we learning about new infestations?

AIS detectors are a wonderful group of volunteers educated through the University of Minnesota's Outreach Extension Program.

They have a class coming up this spring.

You can do it all online.

There's locations you can actually go for in-person training as well.

If you're a Cass County resident and you want to take it, you can email me and we can get you signed up.

We have an in-person class coming in Backus this spring.

Those detectors go around, they check their own lakes.

They volunteer and check other lakes and what they're doing, they're literally throwing a rake, pulling it in and identifying the different species that are on it and you get snails, mussels if they're in there and the vegetation as well.

And this is a volunteer gig is that right?

Yes.

I became an AIS detector in 2017 when they first started the program and now as of Monday I'm taking an AIS Management 101 class which I think I believe 111 people have already taken.

So, it's online but it gives you the opportunity to identify native and invasive whether it's aquatic plants or zebra mussels or whatever and the treatments.

It gives an individual whether they're lake association or a person around the lake or anybody interested in taking the program.

So, we're really depending on the goodwill of our neighbors to make sure that AIS is not spreading to other lakes in Minnesota.

I want to know if the two of you are optimistic?

Do you think that we can manage AIS?

I do.

I believe we can because we need to get everyone individually in tune to what's important for our future, for the future of our children, and the future of our properties and if we can just kind of control and know what's going on around us and avoid any other starry stonewort coming into the lake.

Because once it comes in, it's there.

So, if we can just avoid new infestations.

Final word Dana?

Are you optimistic?

I am.

I really am.

I think a lot more lakes would have AIS by now if we weren't already doing the right thing.

Well, I really appreciate the work that both of you do on behalf of your communities and our entire state and our state's ecology.

Thank you for joining me today.

Thank you.

And thank all of you for joining me once again.

I'm Jason Edens your host of Lakeland Currents.

You can follow the story on Twitter.

Tweet us @currentspbs.

Be kind and be well.

We'll see you next week.