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AND BY POLITICO'S "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK," A TOPICAL NEWSLETTER ON GARDEN STATE POLITICS, ONLINE AT POLITICO.COM ♪♪ ♪♪ >>> THE PLOT THICKENS IN THE SEAN KETTLE MURDER CASE.

OR DOES IT?

HI, EVERYBODY, R I'M DAVID CRUZ.

THIS IS "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

WITH ME TODAY IS A TRIO OF HARD-NOSED NOTE TAKERS WHO COVER THE STATE.

COLLEEN O'DAY IS SENIOR WRITER AND PROJECT EDITOR FOR NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

BRENT JOHNSON COVERS THE STATE HOUSE FOR NJ ADVANCED MEDIA, AND MATT FRIEDMAN IS A REPORTER FOR POLITICO.

THEY'LL JOIN US IN A COUPLE MINUTES BUT LET'S START WITH THIS SEAN CADDLE MURDER-FOR-HIRE CASE.

HE WAS THE POLITICAL CONSULTANT WHO ADMITTED THIS YEAR TO HIRING A HITMAN TO KILL A FELLOW POLITICAL PLAYER BACK IN 2014 IN JERSEY CITY.

HE'S AWAITING SENTENCING IN HOME CONFINEMENT AS HE COOPERATES WITH PROSECUTORS ON WHAT MANY ARE SPECULATING COULD BECOME A BIG CORRUPTION CASE.

WHAT HAS COME UP MOST FREQUENTLY IN DESCRIBING CADDLE IS HIS CLOSE CONNECTION TO FORMER SENATOR RAY LESNIAK, WHO JOINS US TODAY.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU.

AND MY NAME HAS COME UP REPEATEDLY BASICALLY IRRESPONSIBLE REPORTING OF SOME PEOPLE IN THE PRESS.

INDEED, THE PATCH, A NEWS ORGANIZATION, PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE LINKING, BECAUSE OF MY ASSOCIATION WITH CADDLE, WHO COMMITTED A MURDER, LINKING ME TO MY WIFE'S SUDDEN DEATH AT 42 YEARS OLD.

I HAD TO GO BACK TO THERAPY.

IT HURT SO MUCH.

>> THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE THING REALLY HAS YOU -- >> AND THIS IS A NEWS ORGANIZATION.

BY THE WAY, HAS THE PRESS TALKED ABOUT THE FACT -- BY THE WAY, HAS HAS BEEN REPORTED, CADDLE WAS A KNOWN OPIOID ADDICT.

NOBODY KNEW THAT, BUT HE WAS.

HAS THE PRESS -- >> LET'S NOT GET AHEAD OF OURSELVES, SENATOR.

LET ME GET YOU BACK HERE.

LET ME GET TO ALL THAT.

>> LET ME FINISH.

HAS THE PRESS REPORTED ABOUT THE RAYMOND J. LESNIAK RECOVERY HIGH SCHOOL THAT HAS SAVED SO MANY KIDS AND ABOUT THE TERRIBLE OPIOID ADDICTION IN OUR HIGH SCHOOLS?

NO.

AND YET, CADDLE'S AN OPIOID ADDICT.

THERE'S THE CONNECTION THAT THEY SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT.

INSTEAD OF DREAMING UP THESE NARRATIVES THAT FIT THEIR OWN -- THEIR OWN POLITICAL -- >> SENATOR, I WANT YOU TO COME BACK TO ME, ALL RIGHT?

COME BACK TO ME.

>> SURE.

PLEASE.

PLEASE.

>> START HERE.

WHAT IS OR WAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH SEAN CADDLE?

>> HE WAS MY CAMPAIGN MANAGER.

THAT'S IT.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, I'M LINKED TO MY WIFE'S DEATH.

BECAUSE OF THAT, I'M BEING QUESTIONED ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF TOOTHPASTE I USE IN THE MORNING.

>> YOU TOLD REPORTERS -- >> HOLD ON.

NOBODY'S QUESTIONING ME ABOUT MY RECOVERY HIGH SCHOOL.

WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> YOU TOLD THE REPORTER THAT ON THE DAY THAT SEAN CADDLE PLEADED TO MURDER FOR HIRE, YOU ACTUALLY SPOKE TO HIM.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> ISN'T THAT AMAZING?

WHILE HE WAS -- >> WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> WHILE HE WAS PLANNING THE MURDER, HE WAS ACTUALLY WORKING ON CAMPAIGNS.

THAT'S THE TYPE OF DOUBLE LIFE HE LED.

HE LIVED.

THAT'S WHY IT WAS SO SHOCKING TO EVERYBODY.

>> WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT?

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN, ABOUT DOING CAMPAIGNS.

>> SO, ARE YOU STILL WORKING WITH HIM NOW?

>> NO.

STOP IT.

YOU KNOW THAT I SHUT IT DOWN.

STOP THAT.

IT WAS IN THE PRESS.

I IMMEDIATELY SHUT IT DOWN, AND YOU KNOW THAT.

SO, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN ASK ME THAT?

>> I ASKED OUT OF CURIOSITY, SENATOR.

JUST ASKED A QUESTION.

>> THERE YOU GO AGAIN.

YOU KNOW THAT I SHUT IT DOWN.

YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT?

YOU DON'T READ THE PRESS?

MAX FREEDMAN WROTE ABOUT IT.

>> WE'LL ASK MATT ABOUT THAT.

>> HE WROTE ABOUT IT THAT I SHUT IT DOWN AUTOMATICALLY.

I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU WOULD HAVE TO THINK ABOUT BRINGING IT UP AGAIN.

>> OKAY.

SENATOR, SO, YOU FORMED THESE SUPER PACs THAT SEAN CADDLE RAN FOR YOU.

YOU'RE RETIRED.

WHAT ARE YOU STILL DOING IN THE GAME?

>> I HAVE THE LESNIAK INSTITUTE FOR AMERICAN LEADERSHIP.

WE ADVANCE COURSES THAT HAVE BEEN DEAR TO ME MY ENTIRE LIFE.

I'M COMING OUT WITH A BOOK.

IRONICALLY, CALLED "MY LIFE IN THE COLORFUL WORLD OF NEW JERSEY POLITICS."

PUBLISHED BY RUTGERS UNIVERSITY PRESS.

WITH A FOREWORD BY BILL CLINTON AND TALKING ABOUT ALL THE TREATMENTS, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, LGBTQ, CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM, ANIMAL WELFARE.

>> SO YOU'RE GETTING OFF TRACK AGAIN, SENATOR.

I JUST WANT TO -- >> MY ANSWER IS -- LET ME FINISH, PLEASE.

MY ANSWER TO -- >> I HAVE, SENATOR, BUT -- >> MY INSTITUTE CONTINUES TO DO THAT WORK, AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE SUPPORT POLITICAL CANDIDATES WHO SUPPORT THE ISSUES THAT I BELIEVE IN.

>> OKAY.

THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING FOR, AND NOW, YOU HAVE FORMED THESE SUPER PACs FOR LOCAL CAMPAIGNS.

WHAT'S YOUR INTEREST IN A SUPER PAC FOR A MAYOR'S RACE, FOR INSTANCE?

>> JIMMY DAVIS IS MY FRIEND.

I SUPPORT FRIENDS, AND I SUPPORT GOOD POLITICIANS, PEOPLE WHO DO GOOD FOR THEIR COMMUNITY.

>> SO HERE -- >> YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

>> HERE'S THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED EARLIER, WHICH IS, YOU'RE RETIRED FROM POLITICS, IT WOULD APPEAR.

WHY ARE YOU STILL INVOLVING YOURSELF -- >> NO, I'M NOT RETIRED FROM POLITICS.

I AM NOT RETIRED FROM POLITICS.

AS I TOLD YOU, I HAVE THE LESNIAK INSTITUTE AT CAIN UNIVERSITY FOR AMERICAN LEADERSHIP, AND AM PROMOTING CAUSES THAT WERE DEAR TO ME IN MY 40-YEAR, UNBLEMISHED POLITICAL CAREER.

>> SO, YOU SAY THAT THERE'S A FEEDING FRENZY SURROUNDING THIS.

WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THAT?

>> ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I WAS ACCUSED BY THE PRESS, BY THE PATCH, A NEWS ORGANIZATION.

>> WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT PATCH.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT PATCH.

>> THAT'S A FEEDING -- THAT'S A FEEDING FRENZY, THAT'S FOR SURE.

THAT'S NOT A FEEDING FRENZY?

IT PLAYS ON ME EVERY SINGLE DAY.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE STUFF UNRELATED TO THAT PATCH INCIDENT, SENATOR.

YOUR CONNECTIONS WITH -- >> SURE, I REQUIRE -- I RECOIL AGAINST QUESTIONS THAT ARE RELATED TO POLITICAL CORRUPTION, BECAUSE THERE'S ZERO EVIDENCE.

CADDLE IS A MURDERER.

THERE'S ZERO EVIDENCE ABOUT HIM BEING POLITICALLY CORRUPT.

BUT IT'S BEING PLAYED BY THE MEDIA FRENZY, FROTHING AT THE MOUTH TO TRY TO MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICAL CORRUPTION, WHEN THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE ABOUT THAT.

WHY DON'T THEY FOLLOW THE DRUG DEAL?

THE GUY HE MURDERED WAS A DRUG ADDICT.

CADDLE WAS A DRUG ADDICT.

THERE'S A CONNECTION.

>> LET'S STIPULATE TO THAT AS HIS LAWYER DID.

>> ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION WITH POLITICAL CORRUPTION.

>> YOUR FRIENDS SAY THAT YOU SHOULD STOP TALKING.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT ADVICE?

>> MY FRIENDS HAVE NOT HAD -- HAVE NOT BEEN ACCUSED OF HAVING MURDERED THEIR WIVES.

BECAUSE SEAN CADDLE WAS MY CAMPAIGN MANAGER.

THEY HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH THAT.

>> ARE YOU CONCERNED AT ALL WITH WHAT -- HOW HE'S COOPERATING WITH PROSECUTORS AND WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT?

>> DRUG DEALERS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SO, I'LL ASK YOU AGAIN.

YOUR FRIENDS SAY YOU SHOULD STOP TALKING -- >> BY THE WAY, AGAIN, THERE'S ZERO EVIDENCE -- AND BY THE WAY, THE PRESS IS OPERATING AS PROSECUTORS.

THEY'RE AMATEUR PROSECUTORS.

THEY WANT A STORY THAT WOULD APPEAR ON THE -- YOU KNOW THOSE MAGAZINES THAT, AS YOU CHECK OUT?

AT THE SUPERMARKET?

THAT'S WHERE MANY OF THEIR STORIES BELONG BECAUSE THERE'S NO EVIDENCE.

AND THE PROSECUTORS HAVEN'T DETERMINED ANY EVIDENCE.

HOWEVER, THERE IS A LOT OF CONNECTION, NOT WITH POLITICAL CORRUPTION BUT WITH DRUGS.

AND I'M TRYING TO SAVE PEOPLE, KIDS, WHO HAVE ALCOHOL AND DRUG ABUSE PROBLEMS, BUT THE PRESS DOESN'T WANT TO WRITE ABOUT THAT, DO THEY?

DOESN'T -- >> ALL RIGHT, LOQUACIOUS AS EVER.

SENATOR RAY LESNIAK, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

HAVE A GOOD DAY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

PANEL, LET'S GET YOU BACK IN HERE.

COLLEEN, BRENT, MATT.

MATT, LET ME CAP OFF THIS LESNIAK INTERVIEW WITH YOU.

YOU WANT TO REACT?

AND THEN MAYBE TELL ME WHAT -- >> WHAT WE JUST SAW, IF IT WAS A NORMAL POLITICIAN, EVERYBODY WOULD BE LIKE, WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?

BUT IT'S RAY, YOU KNOW?

IT'S RAY-RAY.

EVERYONE KNOWS RAY LESNIAK SO THIS IS PAR FOR THE COURSE.

HE SAID A LOT OF STUFF AND HE SAID A LOT OF STUFF THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE.

FIRST OF ALL, LET'S JUST ADDRESS THAT PATCH ARTICLE.

I AM EXTREMELY ANGRY THAT PATCH EXISTS AND IS THIS IRRESPONSIBLE BECAUSE THAT WASN'T A JOURNALIST WHO WROTE THAT ARTICLE.

THAT WAS AN ANONYMOUS PERSON SLANDERING RAY LESNIAK UNDER A FAKE NAME THAT PATCH'S IDIOTIC SET-UP ALLOWED TO HAPPEN, AND LOOK, JUST LIKE AN ARTICLE.

WHAT KIND -- THAT'S SO DEEPLY IRRESPONSIBLE THAT I AM ANGRY, AND THAT ALLOWS HIM TO CREATE THIS STRAWMAN.

I THINK WE ARE ALL -- WE ALL WITH THE SENATOR'S WIFE A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

NONE OF US HAVE EVER SUGGESTED OR BELIEVED THAT HE PLAYED ANY ROLE IN THAT, SO THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE FROM THE POLITICAL WORLD WITH A BONE TO PICK, CREATING A FAKE ARTICLE THAT PATCH'S WEBSITE JUST ALLOWS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE ANY IDIOT CAN JUST POST ON IT.

SO LET'S, LIKE, SEPARATE THAT FROM ACTUAL JOURNALISM, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.

>> AND ALSO SAY THAT NOBODY ELSE HAS REALLY CARRIED THAT PATCH STORY.

>> NO.

THE ONLY -- TO THE EXTENT IT'S BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT, IT'S BEEN WRITING ABOUT HIS LAWSUIT AGAINST PATCH FOR POSTING THAT STORY.

NOBODY PICKED UP THAT STORY.

NOBODY RAN WITH IT.

IT WASN'T A STORY.

EVERYBODY LOOKED AT IT AND SAID, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?

THIS IS GARBAGE.

I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT.

THAT'S WHAT -- I MEAN, I SAW IT.

I SAID, THIS IS CRAP.

I'M -- IT'S INCREDIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE, THOUGH, FOR PATCH TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN, FOR ANY IDIOT TO WRITE SOMETHING THAT LOOKS JUST LIKE AN ARTICLE, THAT'S INDISTINGUISHABLE.

IT'S REALLY, LIKE, IT'S JUST SO STUPID.

BUT BEYOND THAT -- >> WELL -- >> HE'S USING THAT AS A STRAWMAN TO IGNORE THE REAL THINGS, TO CREATE THIS SORT OF SYMPATHY CARD.

AGAIN, I'M REALLY SORRY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS WIFE.

IT'S TERRIBLE.

BUT WHEN HE SAYS THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF POLITICAL CORRUPTION, I MEAN, THAT'S JUST FALSE.

FIRST OF ALL, WE KNOW THAT SEAN CADDLE SET UP A WHOLE NUMBER OF NOT JUST SUPER PACs BUT 501(C)(4)s AND THEY DON'T DISCLOSE THEIR DONORS, THAT MONEY WAS SHOVELED INTO THE SUPER PACs SO THAT'S CERTAINLY SMOKE IF NOT FIRE.

WE KNOW THERE WAS AN FBI SEARCH WARRANT FOR SEAN CADDLE THAT NOT ONLY ASKED ABOUT THE GALDIERI MURDER BUT ALSO ASKED ABOUT THIS NETWORK OF SUPER PACS AND NONPROFITS SO MORE EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S A CORRUPTION INVESTIGATION GOING ON HERE.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING, AND I DON'T SEE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE MURDER OF MICHAEL GALDIERI HAS TO DO WITH POLITICAL CORRUPTION.

I THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE TWO SEPARATE THINGS EXIST, DOESN'T -- THEY DON'T CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT HERE.

AND YOU KNOW, ALL OUR REPORTING -- AND I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE WHO SET UP ALL THESE THINGS.

IT'S LIKE WE HAVE TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND LOOK.

SO, CADDLE DID SET THESE UP.

HIS NAME IS ON THE PAPER.

BUT POLITICAL OPERATIVES DO THIS FOR THE PEOPLE THEY WORK FOR.

SEAN CADDLE WAS UNLIKELY TO BE SETTING THESE UP ON HIS OWN VOLITION.

AND WE KNOW THAT LESNIAK IS THE MOST CLOSELY LINKED POLITICIAN TO SEAN CADDLE.

I MEAN, LESNIAK'S GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN PAID HIS FIRM $600,000.

THAT'S JUST THE GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN AND THERE'S A WHOLE NETWORK OF SUPER PACs, MANY OF WHICH HAVE LINKS TO LESNIAK.

SO, I JUST WANT TO DISPENSE WITH A LOT OF THE SORT OF SMOKE SCREEN.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S IT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

COLLEEN, YOU'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE DAYS OF DAVID FRIEDLAND, ALSO A HUDSON COUNTY LAD, WHO FAKED HIS OWN DEATH TO AVOID THE LAW.

THIS IS MORE SINISTER THAN THAT.

ARE WE JUST AS SENATOR LESNIAK SUGGESTS, IN A FRENZY?

>> NO, THERE'S NO FRENZY.

AS MATT POINTS OUT, THERE IS AN AWFUL LOT OF SMOKE HERE, AND WE NEED TO FOLLOW THAT.

THAT'S WHAT JOURNALISTS DO.

WE PURSUE STORIES LIKE THIS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE BIG, BIG PICTURE, GETTING OUT OF THE DETAILS, IS WE WOULDN'T HAVE THESE KIND OF QUESTIONS AND THESE DOUBTS IF THESE 501(C)(4)s WERE MORE TRANSPARENT, IF WE HAD LAWS THAT MADE THERE BE ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, DISCLOSURE OF DONORS, OF, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY'RE SPENDING THEIR MONEY.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

WE TRIED TO PUT A LAW IN PLACE A FEW YEARS AGO IN PART BECAUSE STEVE SWEENEY, FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT, DIDN'T LIKE THAT MURPHY RELATED 501(C)(4) WAS NOT DISCLOSING DONORS, YOU KNOW, AND THE COURTS THREW IT OUT.

I MEAN, THERE WAS AN OVERSTEPPING THERE.

ACCORDING TO THE COURTS.

AND WE WERE TOLD THAT WE'D GO BACK AND TRY TO FIX THAT.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

BUT THAT'S THE PLACE THAT I THINK WE NEED TO GO TO.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S MOVE ON TO OTHER NEWS.

THE BUDGET SEASON HAS BEGUN WITH THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF TWO VIRTUAL PUBLIC HEARINGS.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR IF YOU'RE FORCED TO COVER THE BUDGET HEARINGS IN TERMS OF THE DYNAMIC ON THE COMMITTEE, BEING BACK IN-PERSON, BRENT?

>> ARE YOU SAYING PEOPLE DON'T VOLUNTARILY COVER BUDGET HEARINGS WITH ALL THE EXCITEMENT?

FORCED?

THIS IS AN INTERESTING BUDGET SEASON.

THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY IN TAX REVENUE THE STATE HAS TO SPEND.

AND YOU KNOW, SPENDING IS UP TO A RECORD AMOUNT.

AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TAX RELIEF PROGRAMS THAT MURPHY'S PUT IN THERE.

REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, HE'S DOING IT WRONG.

SO, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH THE STATE IS FLUSH WITH CASH, THERE'S STILL A LOT OF INTERESTING ASPECTS TO THIS BUDGET.

YOU KNOW, YOU'LL HEAR A LOT OF REPUBLICAN PUSHBACK, EVER SINCE THEY WON SEVEN SEATS IN THE LEGISLATURE THIS YEAR.

THEY HAVE PRETTY MUCH ACTED LIKE THEY ARE THE PARTY THAT WON.

THEY REMIND ME OF THE 1995 CLEVELAND INDIANS WHO LOST THE WORLD SERIES BUT STILL HAD A PARADE.

THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE.

THEY'RE ACTING MORE ROBUST, AND THEY FEEL THEY HAVE MORE OF A SAY NOW, AND SO YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR A LOT OF REPUBLICAN PUSHBACK ON THE BUDGET AND YOU'LL HEAR A LOT OF DEMOCRATS SAYING, THIS IS A GOOD BUDGET THAT WILL HELP MAKE THE STATE MORE AFFORDABLE, WHICH HAS BEEN THEIR CALLING CARD SINCE THE ELECTION IN NOVEMBER.

>> MATT, IS IT GOING TO THRILL AND EXCITE AND MAYBE END UP WITH A POTENTIAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN?

COME ON.

>> I'M LIKE, MY HEART IS FLUTTERING JUST THINKING ABOUT IT.

I DON'T KNOW.

THERE'S A LOT OF -- IT'S NOT GOING TO GET SHUT DOWN.

I CAN VIRTUALLY GUARANTEE THERE WON'T BE A SHUTDOWN.

WHEN YOU HAVE SO MUCH MONEY, IT'S A LOT EASIER TO MAKE DEALS TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER AND GET THEM ON BOARD.

SO, THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY TO SHIFT AROUND, AND YOU KNOW, I'M -- THE ONE THING I CAN SAY IS THAT IT'S NOT IN NEW JERSEY'S HISTORY TO USE THAT MONEY SMARTLY GOING FORWARD, THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE.

>> COLLEEN, FRIEDMAN AVOIDS BUDGET HEARINGS, BUT YOU LOVE THIS STUFF, DON'T YOU?

>> OH, YEAH, THIS STUFF IS GREAT.

I DON'T LOVE IT AS MUCH AS MY COLLEAGUE, JOHN REITMEYER, WHO KIND OF LIVES FOR THIS, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING SEASON AND AS MATT, EVEN THOUGH HE DOESN'T COVER THIS OFTEN, POINTS OUT, WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY, IT REALLY IS MUCH EASIER PROCESS TO GO THROUGH.

SO, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE ANY KIND OF SHUTDOWN.

BUT THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING ITEMS HIDDEN IN THE BUDGET THAT -- IN THE BUDGET IN BRIEF THAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR.

I'M SURE THERE'S A LOT MORE DETAILS IN THERE THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET, SO I'LL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO THESE THINGS STARTING UP AT THE END OF THE MONTH.

>> SEE, SHE LOVES IT.

>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE DEMOCRATS STILL CONTROL THE LEGISLATURE.

SO, THEY STILL -- I MEAN, THE BUDGET THEY WANT TO GET THROUGH WILL STILL GET PASSED BUT YOU'LL HAVE, AGAIN, REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE A LOT MORE SAY NOW BECAUSE A LOT OF THE THINGS THEY'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR NOW DEMOCRATS ARE LATCHING ON TO, SO IN SOME WAY, REPUBLICAN PRESSURE HAS PUSHED THE BUDGET TO THIS POINT.

SO, IT REALLY -- I REALLY THINK THAT FOR ALL THE MONEY THAT'S -- THAT'S IN THIS BUDGET, IT WILL BE AN INTERESTING BUDGET SEASON.

>> BRENT JOHNSON, WE SHOULD SAY, WAS KIND ENOUGH TO JUMP IN AS A LAST-MINUTE REPLACEMENT ON THE PANEL.

SO, AS A SHOW OF GRATITUDE, BRENT, YOU GET TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE WATERFRONT COMMISSION IS AND WHY THE STATES ARE FIGHTING OVER DISSOLVING IT.

>> I WISH I KNEW AS MUCH ABOUT THIS AS MY WONDERFUL COLLEAGUE, TED SHERMAN.

YOU SHOULD GO AND READ HIS STORIES ON NJ.COM.

IT'S A VERY NORTHEASTERN STORY THAT HAS A LOT OF COMPLEX DIMENSIONS TO IT.

BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY IS LOOKING FOR A WAY OUT OF THE WATERFRONT COMMISSION, WHICH HAS BEEN HERE SINCE THE MID-20th CENTURY, AND NEW YORK ISN'T LETTING THEM.

OR NEW YORK IS TRYING NOT TO LET THEM.

AND IT'S A VERY COMPLEX STORY.

BUT REALLY, GO READ TED'S STORIES.

HE'S BEEN FANTASTIC ON THIS.

>> COLLEEN, SHOULDN'T WE BE WANTING TO KEEP A WATERFRONT COMMISSION THAT FIGHTS CORRUPTION?

>> YOU WOULD THINK, AND SO I'M ALWAYS PUZZLED WHEN I, YOU KNOW, HEAR THIS STORY COME BACK UP.

I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND, EXCEPT THAT PERHAPS WE FEEL LIKE WE WOULD HAVE MORE CONTROL BY PUTTING STATE POLICE IN CHARGE BECAUSE THEN WE WOULDN'T BE, YOU KNOW, DEALING WITH ANOTHER STATE.

BUT YOU KNOW, IT DOES -- IT DOES BOGGLE MY MIND, BECAUSE THE COMMISSION, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, HAS REALLY BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN ITS TIME IN, YOU KNOW, IN CREATION -- SINCE THE TIME IT'S BEEN CREATED IN, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY AND NEW YORK, IF NOT COMPLETELY PUTTING AN END, AND AT LEAST KIND OF KEEPING THE CORRUPTION THAT WE USED TO SEE IN CHECK.

CAN I ALSO POINT OUT -- >> IT'S JUST LIKE WHEN THEY SAY THAT YOUR TAXES ARE GOING TO RISE MORE SLOWLY THAN THEY USUALLY RISE.

MATT, IS -- CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS COMMISSION?

>> I CAN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THE ENTHUSIASM FOR GETTING OUT OF IT.

THEY SAY IT'S NOT NECESSARY.

THIS REALLY SEEMS TO BE PUSHED BY THE INTERNATIONAL LONG SHOREMAN'S ASSOCIATION.

WHICH HAD, YOU KNOW, YOUR PREVIOUS GUEST THERE, RAY LESNIAK, WAS REALLY LIKE THE LEADER IN PUSHING TO GET RID OF THIS THING.

>> I PLANNED TO ASK HIM A QUESTION, BUT -- >> AND HE WAS -- >> WE CAN GET HIM TO TALK.

>> HE WAS GOING TO BE NOMINATED TO THE WATERFRONT COMMISSION TO DISMANTLE IT, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, FROM THE INSIDE, AND THAT FELL THROUGH.

AS SOON AS IT GOT FLOATED THAT MURPHY WAS CONSIDERING DOING IT.

BUT I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, I WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTED.

LIKE, THIS IS ANOTHER REASON I'D LOVE TO SEE WHO DONATES TO THESE DARK MONEY GROUPS.

DID THE ILA DARK DONATE TO THEM OR ANYWHERE?

I DON'T KNOW.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING THEY DID.

IT'S JUST A REASON I'D LIKE TO SEE.

WHO DID?

>> ALL RIGHT.

COLLEEN, YOU HAD AN INTERESTING PIECE ON POLICE INTERNAL AFFAIRS RECORDS THAT THEY CAN NOW BE MADE PUBLIC.

WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE IMPACT OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, THE COURT DIDN'T SAY THAT OPRA, OUR OPEN PUBLIC RECORDS ACT, GUARANTEES THIS RELEASE, BUT IT DOES SAY THAT WE COULD GET THESE RECORDS UNDER WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE COMMON LAW RIGHT TO KNOW, RIGHT TO INFORMATION.

SO, PEOPLE ARE STILL PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO THE COURTS, BUT IT MEANS THAT, REALLY, FOR THE FIRST TIME, YOU WOULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO GO IN AND SAY, HEY, WE KNOW THAT THIS INVESTIGATION HAPPENED.

IN THIS CASE, IT WAS INVOLVING THE FORMER ELIZABETH POLICE DIRECTOR, BUT YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT THIS INVESTIGATION OCCURRED, AND YOU KNOW, THE HAPPENED.

AND SO, THE COURT SAYS THAT AS LONG AS THE BALANCING ACT SAYS THAT THE PUBLIC INTEREST OVER -- YOU KNOW, IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO KEEPING THE RECORDS PRIVATE, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE RELEASED.

AND YOU KNOW, IN THIS TIME OF, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONING OF POLICE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD SO MANY THINGS HAPPEN.

THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.

IT CERTAINLY IS THE KIND OF THING THAT COULD POTENTIALLY -- CERTAINLY TRANSPARENCY IS GOOD, BUT IT ALSO COULD POTENTIALLY BOOST RESPECT FOR POLICE IF YOU CAN SEE THAT THESE INVESTIGATIONS ARE LEGITIMATE AND THAT PEOPLE ARE BEING DISCIPLINED WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE.

>> I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, ADDING TO WHAT COLLEEN SAID, A WHILE AGO, WE GOT SOME SUMMARIES OF POLICE COMPLAINTS AND DISCIPLINE.

I THINK THEY DIDN'T EVEN NAME THE OFFICERS.

AND SOME OF THEM WERE REALLY EGREGIOUS VIOLATIONS OR EGREGIOUS ACTS THAT THE POLICE GOT, LIKE, MAYBE SUSPENDED FOR A WEEK OR TWO?

I REMEMBER ONE CASE, A POLICEMAN HAD OFF-DUTY GOTTEN VERY DRUNK WITH A GROUP OF PEOPLE, GOTTEN ANGRY, AND FIRED HIS SERVICE WEAPON OFF TWICE.

HE WASN'T FIRED.

NOW, I KNOW I'M NOT REALLY SUPPOSED TO GIVE MY OPINION ON THINS, BUT I THINK IF YOU'RE A PERSON ENTRUSTED WITH ENFORCING THE LAW AND YOU GET DRUNK AND YOU TAKE YOUR SERVICE WEAPON AND YOU FIRE IT OFF BECAUSE YOU'RE DRUNK AND ANGRY, YOU SHOULDN'T BE A COP.

BUT THAT PERSON STILL IS A COP, BASED ON THOSE POLICE REPORTS, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS.

THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

AT LEAST SOME BASIC TRANSPARENCY HERE.

PEOPLE LIKE THAT SHOULD NOT BE ON THE STREETS BEING POLICE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO END TODAY ON A HOPEFULLY MORE POSITIVE NOTE WITH A BIG UP TO ST. PETERS UNIVERSITY, WHO IN AN UPSET BIGGER THAN DURR DEFEATS SWEENEY, BEAT NUMBER TWO RANKED KENTUCKY IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE NCAA TOURNAMENT, 85-79.

THIS IS CROWD REACTION ON CAMPUS LAST NIGHT.

YOU GOT TO LOVE IT.

JERSEY CITY.

NEXT STOP, MURRAY STATE.

ANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE YOUR BRACKETS BROKEN FROM THAT ONE?

>> YEAH.

>> YOU SEE MINE.

>> I LIKE THAT, COLLEEN.

>> I'M A PROUD -- >> YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T JUST -- THEY BEAT JOHN CAL PERRY AND KENTUCKY, WHICH IS A MAJOR PROGRAM TO TAKE DOWN, AND THEY HAVE A SHOT AT MURRAY STATE, WHICH IS ANOTHER KENTUCKY SCHOOL.

SO, YOU KNOW, ST. PETER'S COULD EASILY GO TO THE SWEET 16.

>> HOW ABOUT THAT.

>> I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL, BUT SOMEONE POINTED OUT THAT THEY RUINED A LOT OF PEOPLE'S BETS, AND I JUST LOVE SEEING JERSEY CITY AS AN AGENT OF CHAOS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THAT'S "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" FOR THE WEEK.

COLLEEN, MATT, BRENT, THANKS.

THANKS ALSO TO RAY LESNIAK.

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