>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY  VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE FUTURE OF FIRE IN NEW MEXICO.

THREE U.S. FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS ADDRESS LAST  YEAR’S DEVASTATING FIRE SEASON AND TALK ABOUT THE  AGENCY’S ROLE IN FOREST MANAGEMENT IN A CHANGING  CLIMATE.

>> Martin: I WON'T  SUGARCOAT IT.

WE ARE IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

NEW MEXICO IS IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

THE GOOD NEWS, THOUGH, IS THAT WE KNOW WHAT TO DO  ABOUT IT.

>> Lou: AND, TWO EDUCATORS  EXPLAIN THE PUSH TO USE CREATIVE ARTS TO HELP MORE  STUDENTS GRASP AND EXCEL IN MATH AND SCIENCE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS  NOW.

>> Lou: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I’M SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

LAST MONTH, THE ‘STEAM CENTER FOR EXCELLENCE’  OPENED IN RIO RANCHO.

THE GOAL IS TO INTRODUCE  ARTS AND CREATIVE THINKING INTO THE ANALYTICAL WORLD OF  SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, ENGINEERING AND MATH.

IN ABOUT 30 MINUTES, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF  PROCTOR AND TWO EDUCATION LEADERS TALK ABOUT THEIR  PUSH TO MAKE THIS SPECIALIZED FIELD OF STUDY  MORE ACCESSIBLE TO STUDENTS ACROSS OUR STATE.

AN UPDATED COVID-19 VACCINE IS NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW  MEXICO.

THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT  IS RECOMMENDING EVERY PERSON, SIX MONTHS AND  OLDER, GET THE SHOT, EVEN IF THEY’VE ALREADY HAD A  PREVIOUS VACCINE.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR,  WE'LL LET YOU KNOW HOW AND WHERE YOU CAN GET THE NEW  BUFFER AGAINST THE VIRUS.

BUT THE MAJORITY OF OUR SHOW  THIS WEEK WILL BE DEDICATED TO A CONVERSATION YOU’LL  ONLY SEE HERE ON NMPBS.

'OUR LAND' SENIOR PRODUCER  LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH THREE U.S. FOREST SERVICE  OFFICIALS, THE FIRST TIME THE AGENCY HAS MADE ITS  LEADERSHIP AVAILABLE SINCE LAST YEAR’S HISTORIC FIRE  SEASON.

IN A THREE-PART DISCUSSION  TO BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT WRONG LAST SUMMER,  LAURA ASKS FOR AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT LED UP  TO THE DEVASTATING HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE, AND  THE CERRO PELADO FIRE.

>> Laura: THANK YOU, LOU.

JOINING ME AROUND THE TABLE FOR THIS THREE-PART  CONVERSATION ARE SOUTHWESTERN FORESTER  MICHIKO MARTIN, SANTA FE NATIONAL FOREST SUPERVISOR  SHAUN SANCHEZ, AND DENNIS CARRIL, SANTA FE NATIONAL  FOREST FUELS PROGRAM MANAGER.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING  ME.

>> Martin: THANK YOU FOR  HAVING US.

>> Laura: SO THERE IS NO  EASY WAY TO START THIS CONVERSATION, SO LET’S JUST  JUMP IN.

MICHIKO, THREE PRESCRIBED  FIRE PROJECTS IN NEW MEXICO IN 2022 THAT TURNED INTO  THREE WILDFIRES.

LET’S START WITH THE  HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE.

341,000 ACRES.

WHAT WENT WRONG LAST WINTER AND SPRING?

>> Martin: LAST YEAR WAS AN ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING YEAR  FOR WILDFIRES AND FIRES HERE IN NEW MEXICO, CERTAINLY A  YEAR THAT WE WOULD NEVER, EVER WANT TO REPEAT.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT THAT WE HAD THREE PRESCRIBED FIRES THAT  ESCAPED UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH -- WELL, OF COURSE,  HINDSIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20.

BUT WHEN WE APPLY THAT  HINDSIGHT, CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WERE JUST ABSOLUTELY  UNPREDICTABLE.

MY COLLEAGUE DENNIS HERE IS  AN EXPERT, A LONG-TIME EXPERT IN FIRE AND FIRE  BEHAVIOR, ALL THINGS FIRE, AND I'D LOVE TO INVITE HIM,  LAURA, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT, TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT  WHAT HAPPENED IN HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON AND CERRO  PELADO.

>> Laura: YES, DENNIS.

>> Carril: THANKS LAURA, AND THANKS MICHIKO.

FIRST, I'M GOING TO START OUT BY JUST MY APOLOGIES AND  SYMPATHIES TO THE PEOPLE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO FOR  EVERYTHING THAT THEY WENT THROUGH WITH THE TRAGEDY OF  THESE FIRES.

I NEED TO SAY THAT.

AND I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS.

LIKE MICHIKO SAID, I'VE BEEN A PART OF THIS FOR A LONG  TIME.

I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT  THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

THE STORY THAT COMES TO  MIND, AND I'LL BE BRIEF, IS HOW I STARTED MY CAREER.

I STARTED IN THE EARLY 2000s, IN 2002.

THE PEOPLE THAT WERE BEFORE ME AND KIND OF OVERLAPPING  WITH ME, THE LARGEST FIRE THOSE FOLKS SAW WAS LIKE  5,000-10,000 ACRES.

IT WAS A BIG FIRE.

THAT WAS THE SLIDE SHOW THAT THEY HAD OF THEIR  EXPERIENCES, THAT THEY HAD IN THEIR MIND.

AND THEN MOVING FORWARD INTO 2000 AND THE DROUGHT.

IT STARTED IN THE LATE NINETIES IN THE WEST, AND IS  STILL PERPETUATING INTO NOW.

THE EXPERIENCE THAT THEY  HAD, THEY GOT SURPRISED.

THEY WENT THROUGH AN  EVOLUTION, THROUGH A PORTAL, A LEARNING LESSON WITH CERRO  GRANDE AND THE TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENED HERE 23 YEARS AGO.

MY CAREER HAS BEEN IN DROUGHT FOR 20 PLUS YEARS.

MY EXPERIENCES AND MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE FIRE  BEHAVIOR ARE AS SUCH THAT THAT'S HOW YOU BASE YOUR  ACTIONS OF OFF, WHETHER IT'S WILDFIRE, PRESCRIBED FIRE,  OR PLANNED.

I FEEL WHAT WE WENT THROUGH  THIS LAST YEAR, AND THEN NOT JUST LAST YEAR, BUT OVER THE  COURSE OF THE LAST FEW YEARS, THE SLIDE SHOW IS NOT  GOOD ENOUGH, AND WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING OUT THERE UNDER  PRESCRIBED FIRE CONDITIONS, UNDER WILDFIRE CONDITIONS,  WE'RE GOING THROUGH ANOTHER PORTAL.

WE'RE GOING THROUGH ANOTHER EVOLUTION.

JUST LIKE WE LEARNED FROM CERRO GRANDE AND ALL THE  CHANGES THAT CAME WITH THAT, WE'RE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT  WHAT CHANGES NEED TO COME MOVING FORWARD IN THE TIMING  OF THE WILDFIRE CRISIS STRATEGY AND THE TRAGEDY  THAT HAPPENED HERE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

CONDITIONS ARE CHANGING.

FIRE IS VERY DYNAMIC.

WE NEED TO LEARN FROM IT.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO LEARN  FROM IT.

BUT WE DON'T -- WE NEED TO  KEEP BUILDING OUR EXPERIENCE, AND IT'S BEEN  VERY DIFFERENT.

LAST YEAR, I SAW FIRE  BEHAVIOR I'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN MY CAREER.

>> Laura: SO I REMEMBER ON APRIL 6th -- YOU KNOW,  LAST SPRING WAS HORRIBLE.

EVEN HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

DRY, WINDY.

AND I REMEMBER ON  APRIL 6th WHEN I GOT THAT PRESS RELEASE FROM THE  FOREST SERVICE SAYING THAT LAS DISPENSAS HAD BEEN  DECLARED THE HERMIT'S PEAK WILDFIRE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THOSE DAYS AND WHAT THAT FELT LIKE  AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING?

>> Carril: YES, ABSOLUTELY.

SO IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING SPRING.

WE HAD A LOT OF LATE ROUNDS OF MOISTURE THAT BUILT UP  THE SNOWPACK AND BROUGHT IN MOISTURE THROUGH FEBRUARY  AND MARCH.

THE DISTRICT WAS LOOKING AT  PARTICULAR WINDOWS FOR THIS LAS DISPENSAS AREA, AND  WITHIN -- I THINK IT WAS TOWARDS THE MIDDLE OF MARCH  AND TOWARDS THE END OF MARCH, WITHIN TWO WEEKS OF  APRIL 6th, THERE WAS MOISTURE THERE AND IT WAS  TOO WET TO DO THINGS.

I THINK WHAT REALLY CAUGHT  PEOPLE BY SURPRISE, AND IT'S REFLECTED IN SOME OF THE  DATA, THE STATS FROM THE WEATHER, IS HOW RAPIDLY  THINGS CHANGED AND CAME INTO A HOT, DRY, WINDY PATTERN.

THIS IS APRIL 6th, YOU MENTIONED.

IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE MONTH.

THEY'RE TRYING TO CATCH THIS PRESCRIBED FIRE WINDOW SOON  AFTER THESE MOISTURE EVENTS TO MEET OBJECTIVES AND BE  BETWEEN, LIKE WE ARE IN THE SPRING, BETWEEN WINTER AND  SUMMER.

AND PRESCRIBE FIRE SEASON  AND THEN ENTERING INTO FIRE SEASON, IT'S ALWAYS A  CHALLENGING TIME.

THE WEATHER CONDITIONS WE  EXPERIENCED, THE DRIEST ON RECORD FOR APRIL AND MAY,  AND THE FOURTH HOTTEST IN APRIL AND MAY, IT LEADS TO  THAT TRANSITION OF THAT MOISTURE.

WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH IS WEATHER, RIGHT, WEATHER  CHANGES DAY-TO-DAY, AND THESE FOLKS HAD A THREE TO  FOUR DAY FORECAST.

THAT'S TYPICALLY WHAT WE  DEPEND ON FOR A WINDOW, TO GET A TWO, THREE DAY PROJECT  DONE.

BUT WHAT COULDN'T BE  PREDICTED WAS WHAT WAS COMING, WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW  WAS COMING IN THE REST OF APRIL AND THE REST OF MAY,  AND HOW RAPIDLY THINGS DETERIORATED WITH THOSE  CONDITIONS.

>> Laura: SO SHAUN,  EVERYONE KNOWS THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

I MEAN, EVEN FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO HAS ONLY BEEN IN  NEW MEXICO A FEW DECADES, I FEEL THE FORESTS ARE  DIFFERENT.

I SEE HOW THEY ARE  DIFFERENT.

THE SCIENCE CERTAINLY IS  TELLING US A LOT ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

BUT IN 2022, DO YOU THINK THAT THE AGENCY WAS TAKING  CLIMATE CHANGE SERIOUSLY?

>> Sanchez: I BELIEVE WHEN  WE LOOK BACK, AND GOING BACK TO APRIL 5TH, WE DIDN'T KNOW  WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW.

AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY ONE OF  THE FINDINGS FROM THE REVIEW THAT OCCURRED, IS THAT WE  COULDN'T STAY COMPLACENT OR REST ON OUR LAURELS, THAT WE  NEEDED TO REALLY LOOK AT THE CHANGING CLIMATE, AS DENNIS  DESCRIBED, AND JUST THE EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS,  AND HOW THAT IS BEING DRIVEN BY A CHANGING CLIMATE.

AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO LOOK AT THAT, AND THAT'S  ONE OF THE KEY THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING DIFFERENT NOW IN  OUR PLANNING, IS MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE HAVING THE MOST  RECENT SCIENCE, THE MOST UP-TO-DATE MODELING, THAT  WE'RE REALLY PUTTING EVERY TYPE OF PROTECTIVE SERVICE  INTO PLACE AND HAVING THAT FOR SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, OUR FORESTS ARE IN CRISIS.

ONE HUNDRED YEARS OF FIRE SUPPRESSION, AND THEN YOU  ADD ON TOP OF THAT THESE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS THAT  ARE MAKING IT HOTTER, DRIER, IT'S THIS RECIPE FOR  DISASTER.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S  WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR.

>> Laura: YEAH.

SO THE CERRO PELADO FIRE IN THE JEMEZ ALSO IGNITED IN  THE SPRING OF 2022, AND THE INVESTIGATION THAT WAS JUST  RELEASED IN JULY SHOWED THAT WILDFIRE ALSO GREW FROM A  PRESCRIBED BURN, A PILE BURN, THAT HAD BEEN DONE IN  THE WINTER OF 2022.

WHAT WENT WRONG THERE?

>> Sanchez: I THINK THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF NOT  REALIZING, AS DENNIS DESCRIBED, THE EXTREMELY  CHANGING CONDITIONS.

AGAIN, GOING BACK TO LIKE  APRIL 5th, YOU KNOW, BEFORE THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE  THOUGHT THAT ONE OF OUR PRESCRIBED PILE BURNS THAT  WE HAD COMPLETED IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY, THAT IT WOULD  POP UP IN APRIL.

>> Martin: AFTER MANY SNOW  EVENTS.

>> Sanchez: AFTER NUMEROUS  SNOW EVENTS ON TOP OF IT, IT WOULDN'T POP UP.

BUT IT POPPED UP BECAUSE OF THESE EXTREME CLIMATE  CONDITIONS.

YOU KNOW, GETTING TO THE  WINDS, LIKE EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW WINDY IT WAS.

I REMEMBER SITTING IN ON THE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON  BRIEFINGS THAT WERE GOING ON, AND THE INCIDENT  METEOROLOGISTS AND THE FIRE BEHAVIOR ANALYSTS ARE  SAYING, THERE WILL BE TEXTBOOKS AND HISTORY BOOKS  WRITTEN ABOUT THESE DAYS RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS UNIMAGINABLE.

WE COULD HAVE NEVER  IMAGINED.

ADDING TO THE HOTTEST,  DRIEST APRIL-MAY, IT WAS ALSO -- YOU KNOW, WE HAD  RECORD RED FLAG WARNINGS AND RED FLAG CONDITIONS OVER THE  SAME TIME PERIOD.

AND THESE MEASURES, AND THEN  SEEING KIND OF THE EXTREME GOING FROM, LIKE DENNIS  SAID, IN MARCH OF HAVING SNOW,   AND THEN EXTREME DRYING, AND WE WENT TO AN  EXTREMELY WET PERIOD.

THAT TRANSITION FROM THAT  EXTREME DRY TO THAT EXTREME WET PERIOD, THAT'S THE MOST  EXTREME TRANSITION FOR PARTS OF NEW MEXICO THAT THEY  HAVEN'T SEEN IN 130 YEARS, SINCE THESE RECORDS HAVE  BEEN GATHERED AND MONITORED.

THE WORLD IS VERY, VERY  DIFFERENT TODAY THAN WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS ON  APRIL 5th.

>> Laura: MICHIKO, WHY DID  THESE INVESTIGATIONS TAKE SO LONG?

LIKE WITH CERRO PELADO, IT WAS ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF  LATER THAT WE FOUND OUT, THE PUBLIC FOUND OUT WHAT HAD  HAPPENED.

>> Martin: OH, WOW.

WHY DO THEY TAKE SO LONG?

WELL, I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT  WE'RE VERY, VERY THOROUGH, AND WE TRY TO TAKE AS LEAST  AMOUNT OF TIME AS POSSIBLE.

ONE OF THE LEARNINGS THAT  CAME OUT OF THE PRESCRIBED FIRE PAUSE WAS THAT WE NEED  TO BE MORE CONSISTENT IN THE WAY THAT WE INVESTIGATE  ORIGIN AND CAUSES OF FIRE, AS WELL AS ESCAPE FIRES.

AND SO WE GO THROUGH A VERY LONG DETAILED PROCESS JUST  TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING EVERYTHING RIGHT,  BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THE LOSS, YOU KNOW, THE PAIN,  THE TRAUMA, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE  PRESENT OUR FINDINGS TO THE PUBLIC, THAT THEY CAN TRUST  THOSE FINDINGS, BECAUSE IT'S ONE STEP THAT WE HAVE TO  MOVE FORWARD TO TRY TO REGAIN THAT TRUST, IS BY  DOING THE INVESTIGATION VERY THOROUGHLY AND PUTTING OUT  INFORMATION THAT THE PUBLIC CAN TRUST, AND THAT WE'RE  NOT GOING TO COME BACK THREE WEEKS LATER AND SAY, OH, YOU  KNOW, ACTUALLY WE UNCOVERED ANOTHER, WE OVERTURNED  ANOTHER ROCK AND FOUND SOME NEW INFORMATION.

SO I DO APOLOGIZE, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WHEN WE HAVE A  DEVASTATING EVENT LIKE THIS, THE PUBLIC WANTS ANSWERS AND  THEY WANT THEM FAST, AND WE CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND WE ALSO TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY OUR DUTY TO ENSURE  THAT THE INFORMATION THAT WE PUT OUT CAN BE TRUSTED AND  THAT WE CAN MAKE GOOD DECISIONS FROM THEM.

>> Laura: SO THE BLACK FIRE IN THE GILA, 325,000 ACRES  LAST YEAR, WAS ALSO HUMAN CAUSED.

WHAT DO WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

DO WE KNOW ANYTHING?

>> Martin: , OH, GOSH.

HELP ME OUT SHAUN AND DENNIS.

>> Carril: I WAS ON THE BLACK FIRE WITH ONE OF THE  INCIDENT MANAGEMENT TEAMS, AND I'LL TELL YOU A QUICK  COOL -- AND IT MAY NOT BE COOL, AND AN INTERESTING  ANECDOTAL STORY.

I STARTED ON THE WILDERNESS  RANGER DISTRICT WHERE THAT FIRE WAS IN 2002.

THE FIRST WILDFIRE I HAD EVER BEEN ON IN MY CAREER  WAS CALLED THE BLACK FIRE.

WE CAUGHT IT AT 42 ACRES OR  SOMETHING.

THE REST OF THE NEXT TWO  SUMMERS, I WAS OUT THERE DOING INITIAL ATTACK IN  THESE MOUNTAINS, AND COME THERE 20 YEARS LATER, I'M IN  MY DISTRICT, MY OLD BOSS IS STILL THERE, AND WE'RE ON  THE BLACK FIRE AGAIN THAT'S NEAR THE STATE RECORD IN  SIZE.

AND ALL THOSE FIRES THAT WE  HANDLED AND SUPPRESSED JUST HAVE BEEN BURNT OVER,  PROBABLY MAYBE A COUPLE OF TIMES.

IT'S AN INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE FOR ME 20 YEARS  LATER ABOUT WHAT I WAS DOING IN THE FIRST PART OF MY  CAREER, VERY EXCITING AND ALL THIS STUFF, BUT NOW AS I  GET OLDER AND I SEE THIS, IT'S LIKE, TO ALL THAT WE'RE  TALKING ABOUT THROUGH CHANGE WITH CONDITIONS, CLIMATE AND  WEATHER IN THE EXTREMES, THAT'S WHAT STRUCK ME.

AND THEN DEALING WITH THIS VERY LARGE FIRE WITH AN  INCIDENT MANAGEMENT TEAM OVER THAT KIND OF GROUND IS  VERY CHALLENGING.

I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE  IGNITION, BUT HAVING BEEN THERE PREVIOUSLY AND THEN  LAST SUMMER ON IT, IT WAS A BEAST.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TERRAIN AND VERY CHALLENGING  TO DEAL WITH, JUST LIKE HERMIT'S AND EVERYTHING  ELSE.

TWO DIFFERENT IGNITION  SOURCES, SAME RESULTS IN A BIG WAY.

>> Laura: WELL, THANK YOU ALL.

WE NEED TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK.

UP NEXT, WE'LL TALK ABOUT NEW PROTOCOLS FOR PRESCRIBED  FIRE.

>> Kinsman: CREATIVITY  PLAYS A HUGE ROLE IN EVERY ASPECT OF STEM, AND BRINGING  ARTS INTO IT ALSO I THINK EXPANDS THE POOL OF  INTERESTED YOUNG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE KIND OF  RESONATE WITH JUST STEM.

>> Laura:   DURING THE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON  FIRE, THE FOREST SERVICE CHIEF RANDY MOORE SHUT DOWN  PRESCRIBED FIRE PROJECTS, CALLED FOR A REVIEW, AND  ISSUED A NEW PROTOCOL FOR PRESCRIBED FIRE NATIONALLY.

DENNIS, WHAT HAS CHANGED SINCE 2022 ON THE GROUND IN  NEW MEXICO?

>> Carril: THAT'S A GOOD  QUESTION, LAURA.

JUST LIKE I HAD MENTIONED IN  THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT ABOUT THE EVOLUTION OF CHANGE THAT  CAME POST CERRO GRANDE, WE'RE GOING THROUGH  SOMETHING SIMILAR, AND THIS PAUSE I THINK WAS IMPORTANT  TO KIND OF COLLECT OUR THOUGHTS AND PUT DOWN ON  PAPER WHAT SOME OF THESE THINGS WE NEED TO THINK  ABOUT ARE.

WITHOUT GOING INTO  EXTRAORDINARY DETAIL, THE THINGS THAT I'M TAKING AWAY  IS WANTING A LOT MORE ENGAGEMENT FROM AGENCY  ADMINISTRATORS AND LINE OFFICERS.

BEING MORE ENGAGED AND KNOWING MORE ABOUT THE  PROJECTS, BEING ABLE TO SPEAK TO THEM, ASK  QUESTIONS, DOCUMENT THOSE QUESTIONS THROUGH THE GO/NO  GO PROCESSES THAT WE HAVE.

WE USED TO TALK ABOUT  DROUGHT, BUT NOW WE'RE GOING TO FORMALLY TALK ABOUT  DROUGHT AND FORMALLY DOCUMENT THAT CONVERSATION.

AND AS SHAUN SAID PREVIOUSLY, AS WELL, HAVING  MANY MINDS AT THE TABLE TO HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION AND  SO WE'RE KEEPING EACH OTHER IN CHECK.

MORE CHECKS AND BALANCES TO HOW WE MOVE FORWARD WITH  AUTHORIZATION.

NOW WHEN WE'RE MOVING  THROUGH PRESCRIBED FIRE, SOME OTHER THINGS ARE  ACKNOWLEDGING.

MORE RESOURCES THAT WILL  NEED TO BE ON SCENE, WITH OUR CONTINGENCY RESOURCES  BEING CLOSER.

NOT ON SCENE, BUT CLOSER,  WITHIN 30 MINUTES RESPONSE TIME.

AND THEN ALSO THAT KIND OF BACK END OF THE PRESCRIBED  FIRE, AS FAR AS THE PATROL PLAN, CRITICAL WEATHER,  STEP-UP PLANS AND THINGS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOUR  MONTH HOLD OVERS FROM PILE BURNS, THAT WE KNOW WE'VE  GOT TO STICK WITH THIS A LOT MORE INTENSELY USING NEW  TECHNOLOGY WITH INFRARED SYSTEMS AND THINGS SO WE CAN  START CHECKING THINGS AS WE'RE MOVING INTO PRESCRIBED  FIRE SEASON.

>> Laura: MICHIKO, GO  AHEAD.

>> Martin: THANK YOU.

I WAS JUST THINKING THAT, DENNIS, YOU'RE JUST REALLY  HIGHLIGHTING SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL WAYS THAT THE  FOREST SERVICE HAS CHANGED, TO THE QUESTION THAT YOU  WERE ASKING EARLIER LAURA.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIG  THINGS THAT'S KIND OF EMBEDDED IN WHAT YOU JUST  SAID WAS THAT THE FOREST SERVICE IS REALLY  RECOGNIZING THE COMPLEXITY OF PRESCRIBED FIRE.

AND YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER AS A LITTLE GIRL THAT I WOULD  BE OUT IN THE BACKYARD WITH MY FATHER AND WE WOULD DO  PILE BURNINGS, AND YOU WOULDN'T THINK THAT THIS IS  SOMETHING SO COMPLEX.

BUT AS SHAUN AND DENNIS WERE  EARLIER TALKING ABOUT, HOW WE'RE FINDING WITH THE  MEGA-DROUGHT THE RESIDUAL HEAT THAT JUST STAYS IN THE  GROUND AND REIGNITES MONTHS AFTER, THAT'S COMPLEX, AND A  COMPLEXITY THAT WE HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

SO I THINK THAT THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF ANOTHER KIND OF  LEARNING AND WAY THAT THE FOREST SERVICE HAS CHANGED.

IT'S REALLY JUST UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ALWAYS  KNEW THAT WE HAD AN INHERENTLY DANGEROUS JOB,  AND NOW WE ARE JUST RECOGNIZING EVEN MORE SO THE  COMPLEXITY THAT'S EMBEDDED IN IT BECAUSE OF THE  CHANGING CLIMATE AND BECAUSE OF THE MEGA-DROUGHT.

>> Sanchez: AND I WAS GOING TO SAY, TO ADD TO WHAT  DENNIS SAID, THOSE SPECIFICS, THE OTHER PART  THAT WE'RE DOING IS ENGAGING WITH THE PUBLIC, IS MAKING  SURE THAT THEY'RE AT THE TABLE, AS WELL.

AND THEN THAT COMES IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT FORMS.

WE'RE GOING OUT AND HAVING FIELD TRIPS.

IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO ACTUALLY GO AND WALK A UNIT  WITH US, WITH OUR FUEL SPECIALIST, WITH OUR BURN  BOSSES, WE'RE DOING THAT.

LAST WEEK, WE HAD A TOWN  HALL MEETING IN SANTA FE RIGHT AT THE AZTEC SPRINGS  COMMUNITY.

WE'RE PLANNING TO DO A  PRESCRIBED BURN DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THAT COMMUNITY.

WE WANT TO HAVE ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS WITH THOSE  NEIGHBORS, WITH THOSE LANDOWNERS THAT ARE LIKELY  MOST DIRECTLY EFFECTED.

WE'RE WANTING TO MEET PEOPLE  WHERE THEY'RE AT AND THE WAY THEY'RE WANTING TO DO THAT.

HAVING TOWN HALLS, HAVING ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS,  MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AT THE  COUNTY LEVEL, STATE LEVEL, AND NATIONAL LEVEL ARE  UNDERSTANDING.

WE HAD A TOWN HALL TWO DAYS  AGO IN REGINA THAT A LOT OF THE FEEDBACK WE GOT EVEN  FROM SOME OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, LIKE THEIR STAFF  MEMBERS, WAS, WOW, WE DIDN'T REALIZE ALL OF THE PREP WORK  AND THE THOUGHT AND THE PREPARATION THAT GOES INTO  CONDUCTING A PRESCRIBED BURN.

SO WANTING TO ENGAGE WITH THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE  SERVE IN A VERY MEANINGFUL WAY, TO HEAR THEIR CONCERNS,  TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT, IS THERE A BLIND SPOT  THAT WE'RE NOT AWARE OF THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW BECAUSE THEY  LIVE RIGHT THERE, THAT WE'RE LISTENING TO THEM AND  ENGAGING IN THAT AND ADJUSTING COURSE.

>> Laura: SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN  THINKING ABOUT, BECAUSE I'VE LOOKED AT SOME OF THE OLD  PRESCRIBED FIRE PLANS, THEY'RE LONG.

THERE'S LIKE A LOT OF PLANNING THAT GOES INTO  THEM.

THEY'RE COMPLEX.

DOES THE FOREST SERVICE EMPOWER PEOPLE ON THE GROUND  TO PUSH BACK IF CONDITIONS AREN'T RIGHT, OR IF  SOMETHING GOES WRONG?

>> Carril: ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S NOT A -- THIS TALK OF PRESSURE THAT'S OUT THERE, I  THINK IT'S CONVOLUTED IN SOME WAYS SOMETIMES.

WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE'RE UP AGAINST WITH EVERYTHING, BUT  NEVER IN MY EXPERIENCE HAS THERE BEEN PRESSURE TO LIGHT  A MATCH.

THE PRESSURE WE DO PUT ON  EACH OTHER IS TO GET SOMETHING READY, AND THAT'S  A MESSAGE THAT WE'VE SENT THROUGH OUR RANKS FROM THE  ARCHAEOLOGIST OR BIOLOGIST TO THE BURN BOSS OR THE  AGENCY ADMINISTRATOR, YOU NEED TO HAVE THE PROJECT  READY.

GET THE COMPLIANCE WORK  DONE, GET THE PREPARATION WORK DONE SO THAT YOU HAVE  THE ADVANTAGE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A WINDOW  WHEN IT COMES.

BUT NEVER PRESSURE TO SAY,  IT'S TIME TO LIGHT THIS THIS SPRING.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

>> Martin: DENNIS, WOULDN'T  YOU SAY THAT'S ONE OF THE CHANGES, TOO, THAT WE'VE  EXPERIENCED, THAT NOW BEFORE YOU DO A PRESCRIBED BURN  THAT'S A MULTI-DAY, EVERY SINGLE DAY FOLKS ARE  EMPOWERED.

>> Carril: EMPOWERED, AND  THEN WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE HAVING  DISCUSSION NOT JUST WITH THE AGENCY ADMINISTRATOR, BUT  THE FIRING AND HOLDING BOSSES, AND MAKING SURE AND  DOCUMENTING THAT THIS PLAN THAT WE'RE ABOUT TO EMBARK  ON IS BOUGHT IN BY EVERYBODY WHO'S INVOLVED.

I THINK THESE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE KEEP TOUCHING ON,  AND THE MORE FORMAL AND DOCUMENTED CONVERSATIONS AND  HAVING THE MINDS AT THE TABLE, ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

ONE COMMENT I DO WANT TO BRING UP, TOO, IS THE TIMING  OF THIS TRAGEDY IS INTERESTING WITH THE  WILDFIRE CRISIS STRATEGY, IN THAT ONE THING THAT I SEE  THE AGENCY DOING, IT WOULD HAVE PROBABLY STILL WENT ON  WITHOUT THIS, BUT WE'RE STARTING TO THINK ABOUT AND  TREAT PRESCRIBED FIRE AS THE SAME CRISIS AS WE SEE  WILDFIRES UNFOLDING.

AND I SEE THE LEVEL OF  SUPPORT STARTING TO COME FROM THE AGENCY AND THE  COORDINATION FOR RESOURCES, FUNDING, ALL THESE DIFFERENT  THINGS.

IT'S COMING TOGETHER  COINCIDENTLY WITH THE TIMING OF THIS STRATEGY.

BUT TO REALLY GIVE THE PLAN PRESCRIBED FIRE WORK WHERE  IT'S IN OUR COURT TO PICK THE TIME AND PLACE AND  CONDITIONS.

WE'RE STARTING TO GET THE  ATTENTION WE NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON IT THE WAY WE NEED  TO.

>> Laura: THE FOREST  SERVICE IS NOT UNIQUE THIS WAY, BUT I'VE BEEN COVERING  ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES FOR LIKE MORE THAN 20 YEARS, AND  I SEE HOW SLOW AGENCIES LIKE THE FOREST SERVICE ARE TO  CHANGE.

AND FROM AN OUTSIDER'S  PERSPECTIVE, IT'S EASY FOR ME TO SAY,   HOLY SMOKES, CONDITIONS AND LIFE  BASICALLY ON THIS PLANET HAS CHANGED FASTER THAN SOME OF  OUR AGENCIES HAVE.

DOES THE FOREST SERVICE HAVE  THE CAPACITY AND THE POLITICAL WILL TO REALLY  MAKE THESE CHANGES TO KEEP UP WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN  THE FORESTS?

>> Sanchez: ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK LIKE DENNIS SAID, WE HAVE A VERY CLEAR PRIORITY  ACROSS THE AGENCY TO FOCUS AND ADDRESS THE WILDFIRE  CRISIS, THE HEALTH OF OUR FORESTS, AND FRANKLY, THE  HEALTH OF OUR FORESTS GETS TO THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF  OUR PUBLIC, RIGHT.

SO IT'S VERY CLEAR FROM A  PRIORITY STANDPOINT OF THE AGENCY THAT CONGRESS HAS  COME THROUGH AND APPROPRIATED.

I THINK THERE'S ABOUT $7 BILLION THAT HAS BEEN  APPROPRIATED TO ADDRESS THIS CRISIS HEAD ON.

AND I'M NEW TO THE FOREST SERVICE.

SEVEN MONTHS HERE.

BUT WHAT I'VE SEEN -- AND SO  MY TENURE HAS BEEN ALL CHANGE.

BUT I SEE A HUGE DESIRE.

THIS IS, LIKE DENNIS AND I  WERE TALKING THIS MORNING, THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN  HOPING FOR MY ENTIRE CAREER, WAS TO SEE THIS STRAIGHT  FOCUS ON THIS PRIORITY, THE HEALTH OF OUR FORESTS, THE  SAFETY OF OUR PUBLIC, AND THE RESOURCES TO GET IT  DONE.

AND SO I CAN TELL YOU OUR  TEAM HERE ON THE SANTA FE IS VERY EXCITED AND EMBRACING  ALL OF THE CHANGE, AND RECOGNIZING THAT WE'RE IN  THIS EVER CHANGING ENVIRONMENT.

AND SO WE CAN'T SIT BACK, WE HAVE TO BE CONTINUALLY  LEARNING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND MAKING THOSE EFFORTS.

AND TREATING OUR FORESTS THE WAY WE NEED TO TO ADDRESS  THIS CRISIS.

>> Carril:   REACTIVE VERSUS PROACTIVE.

WE ACKNOWLEDGE, AND WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON IT YET,  BUT FIRE IS AN INEVITABLE PART OF OUR LANDSCAPE AND  ECOSYSTEMS.

IT IS.

WHAT WE DEAL WITH ON THE SUPPRESSION SIDE AND IN THE  WORST POSSIBLE CONDITIONS WHEN SOMETHING STARTS IN AN  UNWANTED TIME AND PLACE IS REACTIVE.

AND WE STILL ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT, WILL  HAVE TO DO THAT AND GIVE IT ATTENTION.

BUT THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS ON SOME OF THOSE  EVENTS AND THE WAY THEY'RE UNFOLDING, WE'RE GOING TO  SEE MORE VALUES IN INFRASTRUCTURES ENDANGERED  OR LOST OR THREATENED -- OR MORE LOST, I GUESS.

BUT JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS ON THE PROACTIVE SIDE, THIS  IS WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR, AND LIKE I DO.

THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY, THIS WILDFIRE CRISIS  STRATEGY.

WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO  BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH BUILDING TRUST AND  BEING TRANSPARENT AND ENGAGING OUR PUBLIC, AND  IT'S A GOOD THING.

IT'S FORCING US THAT  DIRECTION, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

BUT TO BE ON THE PROACTIVE SIDE AND HAVING THE CHOICE,  KNOWING FIRE IS PART OF THE SYSTEM, TO BE ABLE TO PICK  THE TIME AND THE PLACE AND THE CONDITIONS AND THE RIGHT  RESOURCES, WITH ALL THESE CHANGES THAT WE'RE GOING TO  START INCORPORATING AND LEARN FROM FROM LAST YEAR,  OUR ODDS ARE WAY BETTER.

WE TALK ABOUT 99.8,  WHATEVER, POINT OF SUCCESS, AND IT'S NOT GETTING HUNG UP  ON SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR.

WE HAVE TO GET HUNG UP ON THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE  MINIMIZE THE CHANCE OF THAT EVER HAPPENING AGAIN.

WE CAN'T PROMISE THAT IT WON'T EVER HAPPEN AGAIN,  THAT A FIRE WON'T ESCAPE, BUT THE ODDS IN DEFENDING  OUR VALUES AT RISK, OUR COMMUNITIES, OUR ECOSYSTEMS,  OUR WATERSHED, OUR TRIBAL LANDS, EVERYTHING, WE HAVE A  MUCH BETTER CHANCE IF WE CAN PICK THE TIME AND PLACE TO  REINTRODUCE FIRE VERSUS BEING AT THE MERCY.

IF CONDITIONS KEEP CHANGING AND GETTING MORE EXTREME,  WE'RE NOT HAVING GREAT SUCCESS IN THESE SUPPRESSION  EVENTS.

>> Laura: SO THAT'S  SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT A  LITTLE BIT.

THERE WERE PEOPLE EVEN  BEFORE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON WHO WERE GOING TO  OPPOSE PRESCRIBED FIRE PROJECTS.

LOOKING AT A PLACE LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SANTA FE  WATERSHED, OR ANY NUMBER OF PACKED FORESTS IN NEW  MEXICO, IF YOU COULDN'T USE PRESCRIBED FIRE, WHAT OTHER  TOOLS ARE THERE?

>> Carril: SO THE  INITIATION OF THAT PROJECT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, BUT THE  PERSON WHO WAS GREATLY INVOLVED WITH IT WAS MY  MENTOR, AND I SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THERE WITH HIM, THE  DISTRICT, AND ALL THE TREATMENTS THAT WENT ON TO  BRING IT TO THE CONDITION IT'S IN NOW.

A LOT OF DISCUSSION WAS HAD ABOUT REMOVAL AND MECHANICAL  WORK AND THIS TYPE OF THING.

IN ALL THAT I'VE LEARNED IN  MY CAREER, WHAT YOU FIND IS THAT WATERSHED, THERE'S ONE  ROAD IN THE BOTTOM, AND YOU'RE TALKING A 1200-FOOT  CLIMB AT 80 PERCENT, 60 PERCENT SLOPE, UP TO THE  RIDGELINE.

THERE'S NO ACCESS.

THE TINY ROAD THAT GOES UP THERE, THE CANYON ROAD,  YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAUL LOG TRUCKS DOWN THERE.

SO MECHANICAL REMOVAL IS NOT REALLY A FEASIBLE OPTION  THERE.

BUT AS I'VE LEARNED OVER 20  YEARS, AND NOT JUST THE WATERSHED, BUT EVERYWHERE,  IT'S JUST NOT ABOUT REMOVAL AND CUTTING.

YOU CREATE ACTIVITY FUEL WHEN YOU CUT, SOMETHING  THAT'S MAYBE MORE VOLATILE FOR BURNING AFTER YOU  MANIPULATE IT.

AND THEN WE HAVE TO THINK  ABOUT THE ECOLOGY AND WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE FIRE  ECOLOGY OF OUR MOUNTAINS AND WHAT ROLE IT PLAYED.

AND WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF LANDSCAPES THAT WERE  CONSIDERED FREQUENT FIRE FORESTS, WHERE FIRE WAS THE  RECYCLER FOR THIS DEAD WOOD ACCUMULATION.

IT PRUNED THE LIVE TREES, IT KEPT THE LIVE TREE DENSITIES  IN CHECK, AND IT PROMOTED MORE OPEN STANDS.

WE CAN'T REPLACE THAT WITH MECHANICAL WORK ALONE.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE LEARNED THROUGH MY CAREER, AND I  THINK THE AGENCY IS ON BOARD WITH THAT AND UNDERSTANDING.

ALL TOOLS ARE ON THE TABLE  WHEN IT COMES TO IMPLEMENTING THESE  TREATMENTS, BUT WE WON'T BE SUCCESSFUL WITH THE WILDFIRE  CRISIS STRATEGY IN DEFENSE OF OUR VALUES AT RISK AND  THE THINGS THAT WE CARE ABOUT WITHOUT FIRE AS PART  OF THE PLAN.

>> Laura: THANKS AGAIN.

WE WILL BE BACK IN 15 MINUTES FOR ONE FINAL TIME  TO WRAP UP THIS CONVERSATION.

>> Martin: WE CAN'T TAKE AWAY THE PAIN AND THE LOSS,  BUT I THINK THAT WHAT WE CAN DO IS PROMISE TO THE  COMMUNITY THAT WE WILL BE THERE AND WALK WITH THEM  INTO A FUTURE, INTO A FUTURE OF REPAIR, RESTORATION, AND  REHABILITATION.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE  CAN DO.

AND WE ARE, ALONG WITH OUR  FEDERAL PARTNERS, TRYING TO DO THE MOST THAT WE CAN TO  ENSURE THAT WE ARE HELPING FOLKS BECOME WHOLE, THAT  THEY ARE RECOVERING WHAT THEY'VE LOST TO THE BEST  EXTENT THAT WE CAN.

>> Lou:   THE THIRD PART OF LAURA’S CONVERSATION WITH  U.S. FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS IS COMING UP IN  LESS THAN 15 MINUTES.

RIGHT NOW, WE MOVE ON TO A  DISCUSSION ABOUT ‘STEAM’ EDUCATION.

YOU’RE PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH ‘STEM’ – SCIENCE,  TECHNOLOGY, ENGINEERING AND MATH.

BUT THERE’S A GROWING PUSH TO ADD AN ‘A’ FOR ARTS INTO  THE MIX.

‘STEAM’ EDUCATION IS ABOUT  APPLYING CREATIVE THINKING TO STEM PROJECTS ALONG WITH  REAL WORLD PROBLEM-SOLVING.

THIS WEEK, EXECUTIVE  PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR SPEAKS WITH DR. SHELLY GRUENIG, WHO  RUNS A STEM NONPROFIT AND WORKS WITH YOUNG PEOPLE TO  HELP SPARK INTEREST IN NEW TECHNOLOGY, AND KAREN  KINSMAN, WHO’S BEEN EXPANDING AND DIVERSIFYING  THE UNM STEM-H CENTER THROUGH PRE-COLLEGE STEM  COMPETITIONS.

JEFF ASKS THEM HOW ‘STEAM’  EDUCATION CAN SET NEW MEXICO STUDENTS UP FOR FUTURE  SUCCESS.

>> Jeff: KAREN, SHELLY,  THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO In  FOCUS TODAY.

>> Gruenig: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Kinsman: SO EXCITED.

>> Jeff: SO I THINK MOST  VIEWERS WILL BE FAMILIAR WITH STEM, WHICH IS SCIENCE,  TECHNOLOGY, ENGINEERING, AND MATHEMATICS EDUCATION.

BUT WE ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT STEAM, WITH THE 'A'  ADDED IN TO STAND FOR ARTS.

KAREN, WHAT IS THE BIG IDEA  BEHIND ADDING THAT 'A'?

>> Kinsman: I THINK THE BIG  IDEA IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT CREATIVITY PLAYS A  HUGE ROLE IN EVERY ASPECT OF STEM, AND BRINGING ARTS INTO  IT ALSO, I THINK, EXPANDS THE POOL OF INTERESTED YOUNG  PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE KIND OF RESONATE  WITH JUST STEM.

>> Jeff: HOW RECENT A  DEVELOPMENT IS THAT, TO HAVE ADDED THAT 'A'?

I KNOW WHEN I TALK TO A LOT OF FOLKS, THEY DON'T KNOW  STEAM WHEN THAT GETS MENTIONED.

>> Kinsman: I DON'T KNOW, SHELLY, HOW LONG HAS IT  BEEN?

>> Gruenig: I FIRST HEARD  ABOUT IT AT LEAST 15 YEARS AGO, BUT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A  LITTLE CONTENTIOUS DISCUSSION AS TO WHAT  LETTERS GET ADDED INTO STEM.

AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S,  YOU KNOW, A PIECE OF IT, WHY IT'S BEEN VERY SLOW TO MAYBE  CATCH ON.

AND I THINK THAT WE'RE  FINDING IT MORE AND MORE NOW BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE  UNDERSTANDING THAT WE NEED TO REACH DOWN TO YOUNGER AND  YOUNGER AGES WITH OUR STEM EDUCATION AND ENRICHMENT  PROGRAMS, AND BY BRINGING THOSE YOUTH IN AT THOSE  ELEMENTARY, PRE-K, KINDERGARTEN LEVELS, STEAM  IS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL WAY TO DO THAT.

>> Jeff: LET'S STAY WITH YOU FOR A MOMENT, SHELLY.

I WANT TO TALK SOME MORE ABOUT CREATIVITY.

I LIKE THAT WORD IN THE EDUCATIONAL CONTEXT.

I CERTAINLY REMEMBER AS A STUDENT IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL  MYSELF, IT FELT LIKE THAT WAS SORT OF TAMPED DOWN IN A  WAY.

I'M INTERESTED IN HOW IT HAS  SHAPE EDUCATION OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST NUMBER OF  RECENT YEARS, AND WHAT CHANGES YOU'VE SEEN AS A  RESULT OF WHAT SOUNDS LIKE SORT OF A PHILOSOPHICAL  SHIFT IN THE WAY WE TEACH.

>> Gruenig: ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, I THINK THAT IT'S SHAPED IT BY -- PEOPLE ARE  UNDERSTANDING AND RESEARCH IS SHOWING US MORE THAT THAT  CREATIVITY IS DIRECTLY LINKED TO INNOVATION, AND  ESPECIALLY HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE HAVE SUCH AN ACTIVE, INNOVATIVE COMMUNITY THAT  PEOPLE ARE UNDERSTANDING.

OF COURSE, IN NEW MEXICO, WE  ALSO HAVE A VERY ACTIVE ARTS COMMUNITY, AND SO IT IS KIND  OF THIS BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL CROSSROADS OF MERGING THOSE  TOGETHER AND SEEING HOW AMAZING, THE AMAZING THINGS  THAT CAN COME OUT OF THAT.

BUT IT IS INFLUENCING OUR  EDUCATION, AND AS WE SEE AND START TO VALUE WHAT IS  IMPORTANT IN, SAY, THE WORKFORCE DOWN THE ROAD, IN  OUR COMMUNITIES, THAT THAT IS THEN REFLECTED IN THE  EDUCATION SYSTEM, I BELIEVE.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF KAREN  WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

>> Kinsman: YES,  ABSOLUTELY.

>> Jeff: SO YOU FOUNDED THE  STEAM CENTER FOR EXCELLENCE IN RIO RANCHO.

CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT CAME  TOGETHER.

>> Gruenig: WHEN SMALL  CHILDREN CREATE AND MAKE CREATIONS, THAT BUILDS NOT  ONLY THEIR EXPERIENCE AND THEIR KNOWLEDGE, BUT IT ALSO  BUILDS THEIR SELF-CONFIDENCE.

AND SO THAT'S JUST BEEN A PART OF IT FOR US.

BUT THEN AS TIME HAS GONE ON, WE'VE BECOME REALLY  GREAT PARTNERS.

WE'VE HAD A LOT OF REALLY  GREAT PARTNERSHIPS WITH ARTS ORGANIZATIONS LIKE COMMUNITY  ARTS ORGANIZATIONS, BUT WE'VE ALSO BEEN BUILDING IN  OTHER TYPES OF ARTS.

MEDIA ARTS, FOR ONE EXAMPLE.

STOP MOTION ANIMATION HAS BEEN A REALLY IMPORTANT PART  TO COMMUNICATE IDEAS, RIGHT.

AND SO THAT'S JUST GROWN.

AND THIS STEAM CENTER FOR EXCELLENCE REALLY HAS COME  THROUGH A PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CAL RIPKEN, SR.  FOUNDATION AND THE ENCANTADO FOUNDATION, WHO GOT ON BOARD  AND SAID, WE NEED MORE OF THIS, NOT ONLY JUST TO OPEN  UP TO THE COMMUNITY, BUT ALSO TO HELP EDUCATORS AND  HELP PREPARE THEM, AND MAYBE TAKE THE FEAR OUT OF STEM,  OR THE FEAR OUT OF STEAM, DEPENDING ON WHAT THEIR  BACKGROUND IS.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

KAREN, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER ADVANTAGES, PRACTICAL  OR MECHANICAL ADVANTAGES THAT STUDENTS GET THROUGH  STEAM EDUCATION THAT THEY MIGHT NOT GET IN WHAT WE  THINK OF AS SORT OF A TRADITIONAL K-12 LEARNING  ENVIRONMENT?

>> Kinsman: YEAH, SO AS  SHELLY WAS TALKING, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT  WE'RE SEEING MORE AND MORE STUDENTS ESPECIALLY WHO ARE  ENGAGING IN RESEARCH PROJECTS OR ENGINEERING  DESIGN PROJECTS, ENGAGING IN THAT CREATIVE PROCESS, AND  ALSO DOING A LOT MORE THAN WE SAW 20 YEARS AGO  INTERDISCIPLINARY PROJECTS, OR INTERDISCIPLINARY WORK.

TEAM WORK.

AND THAT CREATIVE PROCESS IS ALL PART OF THE RESEARCH  PROCESS.

IT'S ALL PART OF THE  ENGINEERING DESIGN PROCESS.

I MEAN, ENGINEERING DESIGN,  IN AND OF ITSELF, IS A CREATIVE EFFORT, RIGHT, AND  I THINK WE'RE STARTING TO SEE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR  STUDENTS TO UNDERSTAND THAT PROCESS AND TO LEARN HOW TO  ENGAGE IN IT.

AND I THINK FOR ESPECIALLY  ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS AND EVEN SOME MIDDLE SCHOOL  TEACHERS, THEY HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF TIME, THEMSELVES, IN  SCIENCE LABS OR IN ENGINEERING DESIGN  THEMSELVES, AND SO IT'S A LITTLE SCARY.

AND I THINK WHEN YOU SORT OF COUCH THAT A LITTLE  DIFFERENTLY IN TERMS OF ENCOURAGING THE CREATIVE  PROCESS, IT'S A LITTLE LESS DAUNTING AND A LITTLE LESS  SCARY.

>> Jeff: PUTTING ALL OF  THOSE IDEAS THAT BOTH OF YOU HAVE DESCRIBED TOGETHER, HOW  CAN STEAM EDUCATION AND A FOCUS ON WHAT WE'RE TALKING  ABOUT HERE TODAY HELP TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE REALLY  PRESSING ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THIS  STATE?

>> Kinsman: WELL, WE'VE  SEEN A NUMBER OF STUDENTS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS,  PROBABLY MORE HEAVILY IN THE LAST TEN YEARS AS THE TOPIC  HAS BECOME KIND OF MORE OF A HOT BUTTON ISSUE, WE'VE SEEN  MORE AND MORE STUDENTS DOING ENVIRONMENTALLY FOCUSED  PROJECTS.

LIKE PRETTY SERIOUS STUFF.

LOOKING AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE NEW MEXICO  ENVIRONMENT.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALSO SEEN,  FOR INSTANCE, NATIVE AMERICAN STUDENTS WHO HAVE  DONE PRESERVATION PROJECTS.

A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, A  STUDENT DID A PRESERVATION PROJECT ON EAGLE FEATHERS,  BECAUSE THAT'S SUCH A CULTURALLY IMPORTANT PIECE  OF THEIR WORLD, AND HOW DO YOU PRESERVE THAT FOR, YOU  KNOW, FOREVER.

HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT PART OF  YOUR CULTURE.

>> Jeff: LET'S THROW  ANOTHER LETTER INTO OUR MIX OF ALPHABET SOUP HERE TODAY.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE LETTER 'H'.

SO YOU DIRECT UNM'S STEAM-H CENTER, THE 'H' STANDING IN  FOR THE WORD HEALTH.

WHAT DO WE MEAN BY HEALTH IN  THIS CONTEXT?

>> Kinsman: SO WE REALLY  MEAN HEALTH PROFESSIONS.

ANYTHING RELATED TO HEALTH  PROFESSIONS.

YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE  CONTROVERSY OVER IT IS, OKAY, SO HEALTH PROFESSIONS  IS STILL PART OF STEM, AND TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, IT  STARTED AS A PIECE OF THE JOINT INSTITUTIONAL SUPPORT  THAT WE GET FROM BOTH THE HEALTH SCIENCES CENTER AND  THE MAIN CAMPUS OFFICE FOR RESEARCH.

AND SO WE ADDED THAT AS PART OF SORT OF RECOGNITION OF  THAT PARTNERSHIP, INITIALLY.

BUT REALLY, IT IS ALSO KIND  OF JUST RECOGNIZING THE FACT THAT HEALTH PROFESSIONS SORT  OF WEAVE THEMSELVES THROUGH ALL OF THE STEM DISCIPLINES.

>> Jeff: INTEGRATION IS SORT OF THE WORD THAT KEEPS  COMING TO MIND AS WE CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION  HERE.

>> Gruenig: CAN I THROW ONE  IN THERE, TOO?

>> Jeff: PLEASE, OF COURSE,  YES.

>> Gruenig: SO WHAT I WANT  TO SAY ABOUT STEM/STEAM, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT 'A'  AND WE TALK ABOUT IT AS ART, I ALSO THINK OF IT AS  ACCESSIBILITY.

IT CREATES ACCESSIBILITY.

LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, IT KIND OF SOFTENS THAT  SCIENTIFIC, ENGINEERING, MATHEMATICS IN A WAY THAT  MAKES IT MORE ACCESSIBLE TO NOT ONLY OUR EDUCATORS, BUT  ALSO OUR FAMILIES AND OUR STUDENTS.

AND WE DID AN AMAZING PROGRAM OUT IN CUBA THIS  SUMMER WITH GIRLS IN OUR GIRLS INTO TECH PROGRAM, AND  THEY JUST GRAB ON TO THAT 'A' ESPECIALLY, BUT THEN  HELPING THEM TO SEE HOW THEY CAN TAKE THIS ART PROJECT  THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON AND USE THREAD THAT'S GOING TO  BE CONDUCTIVE, RIGHT, AND CREATE LIGHTS, THAT JUST  REALLY GRABS AT THEIR HEART, ESPECIALLY THOSE KIDS IN OUR  STATE, IN PARTICULAR, THAT ARE IN UNDERSERVED AREAS.

AND I THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT.

AND THAT RELATES BACK TO THE WHOLE ISSUE OF TAKING CARE  OF OUR STATE, RIGHT.

HOW DO WE TAKE CARE OF OUR  STATE?

HOW DO WE EQUIP OUR KIDS TO  TAKE CARE OF THE ENVIRONMENT AND TO CARE ABOUT THAT?

AND LIKE YOU SAID, KAREN, JUST BEING ABLE TO EMPOWER  THEM IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF THAT.

>> Jeff: MY LAST QUESTION, AND I'LL ASK YOU BOTH TO  WEIGH IN ON THIS ONE, ARE THERE OTHER FACTORS OR  CONDITIONS, MAYBE, IN NEW MEXICO THAT MAKE THIS SORT  OF A UNIQUE PLACE TO INTRODUCE THESE KINDS OF  TOPICS, OR IS THIS MORE UNIVERSAL?

ARE STEAM AND STEM-H CONCEPTS OR PHILOSOPHIES  AROUND TEACHING CHILDREN THAT SHOULD APPLY MORE  UNIVERSALLY?

>> Gruenig: WELL, I THINK  WE'RE AT THE HEART OF STEAM EDUCATION AND ENRICHMENT FOR  THE COUNTRY.

I THINK THAT WE ARE LEADING THAT MOVEMENT  IN MANY WAYS.

WHETHER IT'S STEAM BECAUSE,  YOU KNOW, AT THE LABS WE'RE USING COMPUTER-AIDED DESIGN  IN DESIGNING REALLY LIFE-CHANGING NATIONAL  SECURITY EQUIPMENT, YET THAT'S STILL CONNECTED TO  ART AND CREATIVITY AND INNOVATION, OR WHETHER IT'S  OUR JEWELRY MAKERS THAT ARE USING TECHNICAL WAYS OF  CREATING ART FOR THEMSELVES.

YOU KNOW, THE TWO WOMEN WHO  ARE UP IN TAOS USING CEMENT TO BUILD 3D PRINTED HOMES,  RIGHT, THOSE ARE ALL UNIQUE THINGS, AND IN A WAY I THINK  MOST OF US NEW MEXICANS LIKE TO PRIDE OURSELVES FOR STILL  BEING A LITTLE BIT OF THE WILD WEST AND WANTING TO  IMPACT CHANGE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND WE ARE REALLY AT THE CROSSROADS.

WE COULD TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A LONG TIME.

>> Kinsman: I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I NEVER KNEW  ABOUT SANDIA LABS THAT I FOUND OUT LAST YEAR IS THEY  HAVE AN AMAZING MAKER SPACE, AND IT'S AVAILABLE TO  ANYBODY WHO HAS BASE ACCESS.

THEY HAVE EVERYTHING YOU CAN  IMAGINE, AND SOMEONE THERE WHO'S MANAGING THAT SPACE  AND TRAINING PEOPLE HOW TO USE THE EQUIPMENT, AND  THEY'RE TAKING -- THE SANDIA EMPLOYEES ARE COMING AND  USING THAT MAKER SPACE AND TAKING WHAT THEY'RE MAKING  BACK TO THEIR WORK.

SO I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER  WAY THAT SANDIA LAB, IN PARTICULAR, HAS RECOGNIZED  THE IMPORTANCE OF PROMOTING CREATIVITY AND HELPING EVEN  THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHAT  YOU'RE DOING REQUIRES A CREATIVE PROCESS, AND SO  LET'S PROVIDE YOU WITH ANOTHER OUTLET FOR SEEING  HOW THAT CAN HAPPEN.

>> Kinsman: I ALSO THINK  THAT ANOTHER WAY WE'RE SORT OF AT THE FOREFRONT IS THE,  IF YOU CAN SEE IT, YOU CAN BE IT.

THAT'S ALWAYS KIND OF IN THE BACK OF MY MIND WITH THE  STUDENTS THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH, IS HOW DO WE PROVIDE  OPPORTUNITIES WHERE THE STUDENT CAN SAY, I CAN SEE  MYSELF BEING LIKE THAT, RIGHT, AND NOT JUST  PRESENTING THEM WITH WHAT'S IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS.

MOST YOUNG STUDENTS WILL STILL, IF YOU SAY DRAW A  SCIENTIST, THEY'LL STILL DRAW ALBERT EINSTEIN,  BASICALLY.

AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT -- I  KNOW SHELLY AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR  STUDENTS TO ENGAGE WITH YOUNG STEM PROFESSIONALS SO  THAT THEY CAN GO, OH, I COULD DO THAT.

>> Jeff: KAREN, SHELLY, THANK YOU BOTH FOR SHINING A  LITTLE LIGHT ON THIS FOR OUR VIEWERS TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Gruenig: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Kinsman: THANK YOU.

>> Lou: THANKS TO JEFF,  KAREN KINSMAN AND DR. SHELLY GRUENIG FOR THAT  CONVERSATION.

WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION  ABOUT R-4 CREATING AND THE UNM STEM-H CENTER ON OUR  SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES AND ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS  YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW BACK TO 'OUR LAND'  SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS AND HER CONVERSATION WITH  LEADERSHIP FROM THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE.

LAURA ASKS HOW THE AGENCY IS WORKING TO BUILD PUBLIC  TRUST AS IT ADAPTS ITS FIRE AND FOREST MANAGEMENT IN THE  SOUTHWEST’S WARMING CLIMATE.

>> Laura: I THINK IT'S FAIR  TO SAY THAT THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN SOME TENSION BETWEEN  THE FOREST SERVICE AND COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY IN  NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

SHAUN, YOU ARE FROM LAS  VEGAS, BUT FAIRLY NEW TO THE JOB AS FOREST SUPERVISOR ON  THE SANTA FE.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN YOUR  ROLE TO BE BUILDING TRUST?

>> Sanchez: MY MOST  IMPORTANT THING, AND IT'S THE PRIORITY FOR ME AND FOR  OUR TEAM ON THE SANTA FE, IS TO FOCUS ON TRUST.

AND WHAT I'VE SHARED WITH THE TEAM IS TWO THINGS, THAT  IF WE FOCUS ON THESE TWO APPROACHES, THAT WE WILL BE  BUILDING TRUST.

AND ONE IS TO KNOW AND  RELATE TO OUR COMMUNITY, AND THE OTHER IS TO BE A  COMMUNITY ASSET.

KNOWING AND RELATING TO THE  COMMUNITY, ONE, IS TO BE A PART OF THE COMMUNITY, AND  MANY OF OUR TEAM LIVE IN THE COMMUNITIES.

AND MANY OF OUR TEAM MEMBERS HAVE VERY DEEP ROOTS IN THE  COMMUNITIES, AS WELL.

MANY, MANY GENERATIONS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, BEING A PART OF THE COMMUNITY,  MEETING WITH PEOPLE ONE-ON-ONE AND ENGAGING.

ONE THING THAT I'VE HEARD A BIT OF FEEDBACK IS MAKING  SURE THAT OUR FOLKS ARE LIVING IN THE COMMUNITIES  THAT THEY SERVE, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO JUST BE  SEEN IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR AT THE END OF THE WORKDAY OR  ON A FRIDAY.

REALLY LIVE THERE,  EXPERIENCE THE STRUGGLES.

ALSO, YOU KNOW, EXPERIENCE  THE SUCCESSES.

GET OUT AND MEET ONE-ON-ONE.

SO THAT'S BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME.

I'VE GONE OUT AND DONE TOURS OF THE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF  CANYON BURN SCAR WITH LOCALS, AND DAVID MARTINEZ,  I THINK HE WAS -- ProPUBLICA DID A STORY  ABOUT HIM AND HIS PLIGHT IN NOT FINDING A HOUSE.

I'VE GONE AND SAT IN HIS TRAILER WITH HIM IN MONTE  APLANADO AND JUST WANTED TO HEAR HIS STORY AND SEE HOW  WE COULD HELP.

NOW, THE FOREST SERVICE, WE  COULDN'T BUILD HIM A HOUSE, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HELPED  FIX THE ROAD TO MONTE APLANADO.

THAT'S ACCESS TO THE FOREST, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE  COULD DO.

AND SO THAT'S LIKE AN  EXAMPLE OF BEING THAT ASSET, IS KNOWING AND RELATING AND  UNDERSTANDING OUR COMMUNITIES.

UNDERSTANDING HERE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE  EXTREMELY DEEP TIES AND CONNECTIONS TO THE LAND,  WHETHER IT'S OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, OR HISTORIC  LAND GRANT COMMUNITIES.

AND UNDERSTANDING AND  RECOGNIZING JUST HOW IMPORTANT THE LAND IS.

ONE OF MY FRIENDS, MAX TRUJILLO, COUNTY  COMMISSIONER IN SAN MIGUEL COUNTY, SAID THAT WE ARE A  PEOPLE OF THE LAND, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT GREAT  CONNECTION WITH THE LAND AND ALL THAT THE LAND HAS  PROVIDED OUR TRIBAL PARTNERS FOR TIME IN MEMORIAL, AND  THE LAND GRANT COMMUNITIES FOR CENTURIES.

YOU KNOW, PROVIDING FIREWOOD, HERB GATHERING,  PINON PICKING, GRAZING, HUNTING, FISHING.

YOU NAME IT, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LIVING ON THE LAND  TOGETHER AS ONE.

AND AS THE FOREST SERVICE,  WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP FACILITATE THAT.

HOW DOES THAT ASSET COME IN.

AND SO WHEN WE SAY WE'RE  GOING TO DO SOMETHING, WE NEED TO FOLLOW UP AND DO IT,  AND BE VERY TRANSPARENT.

THAT AGAIN COMES BACK TO  THOSE CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE ONE-ON-ONE  CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE TOWN HALL TYPE  CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE FIELD TRIPS IN OUR  UNITS, MAYBE THAT'S GOING AND WALKING A FENCE LINE  WITH THE LAND OWNER AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT MIGHT BE  GOING ON THERE, AND THEN TAKING THAT INFORMATION AND  TRANSLATING AND SAYING, OKAY, WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP  FACILITATE FIREWOOD.

FIREWOOD IS AN INCREDIBLE  NECESSARY RESOURCE FOR THE PEOPLE IN NORTHERN NEW  MEXICO.

THAT'S HOW MOST PEOPLE HEAT  THEIR HOMES.

SO WE'RE CONVERTING A LOT OF  THE HAZARD TREES RIGHT NOW ON THE BURN SCAR, TAKING  THEM AND GETTING THEM -- MAKING IT ALL AVAILABLE.

FREE WOOD PERMITS, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHERE PEOPLE CAN  COME OUT INTO THE FOREST.

BUT WE'RE ALSO WORKING WITH  MORA COUNTY AND THE NEIGHBORS HELPING NEIGHBORS  PROGRAM TO GET WOOD HAULED TO COMMUNITIES.

WE HAULED A BUNCH OF WOOD LAST YEAR FROM THE FIRE TO  THE COMMUNITY THERE IN PECOS.

WE'RE LOOKING TO HAUL MORE WOOD TO MORA THIS YEAR.

AND ALSO WITH THE NEIGHBORS HELPING NEIGHBORS, GETTING  WOOD TO THOSE PROCESSORS THAT THEN THEY'RE ABLE TO  GET TO THOSE ELDERLY FOLKS AND FOLKS THAT MIGHT NOT BE  ABLE TO GO GET WOOD ON THEIR OWN.

AND SO I THINK FROM A COMBINATION OF KNOWING AND  RELATING AND UNDERSTANDING THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY,  AND THEN PUTTING IT INTO ACTION, AND THE FOREST  SERVICE REALLY BEING A HELPER AND THAT ASSET, I  THINK IS A RECIPE FOR BUILDING THAT TRUST WITH  THESE COMMUNITIES.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIX OUR  WILDFIRE CRISIS WITHOUT THE SUPPORT AND HELP OF OUR  COMMUNITIES.

>> Laura: RIGHT.

SO I FEEL LIKE THIS MAYBE ISN'T SOMETHING THAT FEDERAL  OFFICIALS TYPICALLY TALK ABOUT, AND CERTAINLY FEMA IS  THE AGENCY THAT'S WORKING ON REBUILDING AND THAT SORT OF  THING, BUT I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE FOREST SERVICE IS  DOING IN TERMS OF RECONCILIATION AND HEALING  THAT'S COMING OUT OF THESE.

>> Martin: LAURA, THANK YOU  FOR YOUR QUESTION.

AND I THINK IT REALLY GOES  TO WHAT SHAUN WAS SHARING JUST A MOMENT AGO, THAT PART  OF RECONCILIATION AND PART OF HEALING IS RECOGNIZING  OUR PART THAT LED INTO THE DEVASTATING FIRE, AND  SHARING AND BEING A PART OF THE SOLUTION, RIGHT.

BEING A PART OF WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY TO HELP  REBUILD LIVES AND LIVELIHOODS POST FIRE.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T TAKE AWAY THE PAIN AND THE LOSS, BUT I  THINK THAT WHAT WE CAN DO IS PROMISE TO THE COMMUNITY  THAT WE WILL BE THERE AND WALK WITH THEM INTO A FUTURE  OF REPAIR, RESTORATION, AND REHABILITATION.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE CAN DO.

AND WE ARE, ALONG WITH OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS, TRYING TO  DO THE MOST THAT WE CAN TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE HELPING  FOLKS BECOME WHOLE, THAT THEY ARE RECOVERING WHAT  THEY'VE LOST TO THE BEST EXTENT THAT WE CAN.

I KNOW IT'S NOT PERFECT, AND IT'S BEEN A LONG, LONG ROAD,  BUT AS SHAUN SAID, WE'RE REALLY JUST TRYING TO  UNDERSTAND WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP PEOPLE AND THEN  DELIVERING ON THAT.

>> Laura: AND DENNIS, I  KNOW THESE ISSUES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO YOU, AND WE'VE  TALKED ABOUT THEM OVER THE YEARS, BUT WHY SHOULD ANYONE  TRUST THE FOREST SERVICE WHEN IT COMES TO PRESCRIBED  FIRES?

>> Carril:   THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

EVERYBODY SAID WE'VE GOT A LOT OF WORK TO DO, THERE'S  NO QUESTION, BUT WHY SHOULD THEY?

I KIND OF TOUCHED ON IT, I THINK, EARLIER IN THAT FIRE  IS A PART OF OUR SYSTEM.

IT'S A PART OF OUR BACK  YARD.

IT'S JUST LIKE HUNTING AND  FISHING AND ALL THE WOOD GATHERING AND EVERYTHING  ELSE.

FIRE IS A PART OF THIS, TOO.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO LIVE WITHOUT IT.

SHAUN TOUCHED ON SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT, IT'S A  SOCIETAL PROBLEM, IT'S NOT JUST A FOREST SERVICE  PROBLEM, BUT WE'RE THE STEWARDS.

WE'RE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE.

I WOULD SAY, WHY SHOULD WE  BE TRUSTED?

BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVES  AREN'T VERY GOOD.

IF WE THINK A FIRE IS  INEVITABLE, THEN HAVING IT PLAY OUT UNDER ITS OWN  CIRCUMSTANCES ISN'T A GOOD OPTION I DON'T THINK.

IT'S NOT JUST HERE IN NEW MEXICO, BUT WE SEE IT ACROSS  THE WEST.

THERE'S PLACES THAT ARE IN  DANGER.

THERE'S PLACES THAT ARE  GOING TO BE IN DIRE STRAITS.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN IT'S  GOING TO HAPPEN, OR IF IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN OUR  LIFETIME, BUT ALL THE INGREDIENTS ARE THERE FOR  SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN.

SO BY WORKING WITH THE  COMMUNITIES, REBUILDING THE TRUST -- THE BIG ONE FOR ME  IS TRANSPARENCY ABOUT WHAT, WHEN AND WHERE WE'RE DOING,  BUILDING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

LIKE THE COMMUNITY MEETING IN SANTA FE THE OTHER DAY  WAS GREAT.

CONCERNED LANDOWNERS ASKING  HARD QUESTIONS.

THEY WEREN'T COMBATIVE, BUT  THEY REALLY WANTED TO KNOW, AND IT WAS A GREAT  CONVERSATION.

AND THAT'S THE MODEL I SEE  MOVING FORWARD, IS CONTINUING THIS LEVEL OF  ENGAGEMENT TO BUILD THAT TRUST AND UNDERSTAND THAT  FIRE IS A PART OF OUR LANDSCAPE, IN MY OPINION.

I KNOW PEOPLE DON'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT FOR A VARIETY  OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

THIS SITUATION IS VERY  COMPLEX.

BUT WE KNOW THE ALTERNATIVE.

I THINK OUR SITUATION IS STILL GOING TO BE BETTER  WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT WE CAN CHANGE MOVING FORWARD  FROM THIS DISASTER, INTEGRATING WITH OUR  COMMUNITY, BUILDING THAT SUPPORT, AND USING THE TOOLS  NECESSARY TO DO IT MORE ON OUR TERMS VERSUS BEING AT  THE MERCY OF MOTHER NATURE.

>> Laura: WE'VE TALKED A  LITTLE BIT ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND, YOU KNOW,  THE TOWN HALL MEETING AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

I'VE BEEN ASKING THE FOREST SERVICE SINCE APRIL 2022 TO  HAVE ON-AIR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF  CANYON, PRESCRIBED FIRE, CLIMATE CHANGE, AND IT'S  TAKEN A YEAR AND A HALF FOR THAT CONVERSATION TO HAPPEN.

WHAT IS THE FOREST SERVICE DOING IN TERMS OF BETTER  TRANSPARENCY WITH THE PRESS?

>> Martin: THAT'S A GREAT  QUESTION, AND I HOPE THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF REALLY JUST  BEING AVAILABLE, BEING OPEN AND WILLING TO TALK.

AND I APOLOGIZE THAT IT TOOK SO LONG FOR US TO GET HERE,  BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD INVITE ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS,  SHOULD YOU WANT THEM, AND WE WON'T MAKE YOU WAIT A YEAR  AND A HALF AGAIN.

SO I THINK THAT -- SO SORRY THAT IT DID TAKE SO LONG.

EVERYTHING EVEN FROM THE WAY THAT WE WORK WITH THE PRESS  DURING SUPPRESSION TO THE KINDS OF ENGAGEMENT THAT  SHAUN'S TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE HAVE A PRESCRIBED FIRE,  WE ARE REALLY JUST, YOU KNOW, LIFTING UP THE  CURTAIN, THROWING THE ROOM OPEN AND JUST INVITING  PEOPLE IN, BECAUSE WE SEE THAT AS A NECESSARY STEP  TOWARDS REBUILDING TRUST WITH THE COMMUNITY.

SO HOLD US TO THAT, AND I MEAN THAT.

HOLD US TO IT.

>> Laura: SO WE'VE BEEN  TALKING A LOT ABOUT POLICIES AND PROTOCOLS, AND CHANGES  AND BIG OVERWHELMING ISSUES, BUT SORT OF AT THE END OF  THE DAY, WE ARE ALL JUST FOUR HUMAN BEINGS SITTING  AROUND A TABLE TOGETHER.

AND CERTAINLY SO MANY NEW  MEXICAN LIVES HAVE BEEN IMPACTED.

I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU, SHAUN.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY TO NEW MEXICANS ABOUT LAST  YEAR, AND ALSO ABOUT THE FUTURE OF FIRE IN NEW  MEXICO'S FORESTS?

>>   Shaun: I THINK TAKING A CUE FROM MICHIKO, ONE IS TO  APOLOGIZE FOR THE FOREST SERVICES ROLE LAST YEAR.

I WAS WORKING FOR THE U.S.

FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE IN  WASHINGTON, D.C. LAST APRIL, AND WATCHING THE BRIEFINGS  AND EVERYTHING GOING ON SO FAR AWAY WAS A PRETTY  HELPLESS FEELING FOR ME.

MY PARENTS WERE EVACUATED  FOR I THINK A TOTAL OF ABOUT FIVE WEEKS.

I'VE GOT A COUSIN THAT LOST A HOME.

NUMEROUS FRIENDS AND FAMILY EVACUATED, AND I'VE SEEN A  LOT OF THE DEVASTATION AND DESTRUCTION THAT OCCURRED  BECAUSE OF LAST YEAR.

AND IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.

I CAN'T PUT INTO WORDS THE FEELING THAT I HAVE, AND I  CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE THOSE THAT LOST EVERYTHING.

AND THEIR LIVES WILL BE FOREVER CHANGED.

SO I TOTALLY RECOGNIZE THAT.

AND WHAT MY COMMITMENT IS -- I GUESS I SHOULD GO BACK AND  SAY, IT ACTUALLY CHANGED MY LIFE, AS WELL, BECAUSE IT  CHANGED MY TRAJECTORY.

I HAD BEEN TRYING TO FIND A  WAY TO COME BACK HOME, AND HERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO  COME HOME AND HELP, TO HELP TRY TO HEAL, TO HELP  RECOVER, RESTORE, AND TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THE  POSSIBILITIES IN THE FUTURE AND HOW WE CAN LIVE TOGETHER  AND WORK TOGETHER, KNOWING JUST HOW IMPORTANT THE LAND  IS TO PEOPLE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

AND AS DENNIS SAID, THE STEWARDS THAT HAVE BEEN  ENTRUSTED THIS RESPONSIBILITY IS THE FOREST  SERVICE.

IT'S NOT A RESPONSIBILITY  THAT WE TAKE VERY LIGHTLY, AND WE ARE COMMITTED TO  BEING A PART OF THE COMMUNITIES, AND WE'RE  COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH OUR COMMUNITIES TO ADDRESS  THE CRISIS THAT'S BEFORE US AND TO REALLY HEAL, RECOVER,  RESTORE, AND BUILD A REALLY NEW FUTURE FOR NORTHERN NEW  MEXICO TOGETHER.

>> Laura: DENNIS, THE  FUTURE OF FIRE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Carril: IT WILL BE HERE.

IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING  THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ENGAGE ON, AND IT'S GOING TO  BE A PART OF OUR LIVES.

THE FUTURE OF FIRE, I THINK  I'VE TOUCHED ON IT BEFORE.

IT'S THIS REACTIVE VERSUS  PROACTIVE THING, AND I'LL TOUCH ON IT AGAIN.

AGAIN, BUILDING THE TRUST, HAVING THE TRANSPARENT  CONVERSATIONS, ENGAGING, MAKING THIS A CULTURAL SHIFT  HERE IN NEW MEXICO TO ACCEPT, ACKNOWLEDGE, AND  DEAL WITH FIRE TOGETHER, NOT JUST THE AGENCY IN A VACUUM,  BUT TRYING TO BE TRANSPARENT.

THERE AREN'T VERY GOOD OPTIONS FOR US, BUT WE KNOW,  LIKE FROM CERRO PELADO -- THE STORY'S NOT OUT THERE  YET, AND I'M GLAD YOU HAVE ONE MORE TIME SLOT HERE.

THE IRONY OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT FIRE, THE ESCAPED  PRESCRIBED FIRE, BUT THE INTERACTIONS WITH THE  TREATMENTS FROM THE LANDSCAPE PROJECT THERE THAT  HAPPENED IN THE EARLY 2010s UP AGAINST OVER  ALMOST 40 MILE AN HOUR WINDS STEERED THE FIRE AWAY FROM  THAT COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THE CUTTING AND BURNING  TREATMENTS.

THIS STUFF WORKS.

I WANT THAT TO BE THE FUTURE OF FIRE IN NEW MEXICO, WHERE  WE HAVE SUCCESSES LIKE THAT THAT WE'RE INVITED TO TALK  ABOUT AND SHARE ABOUT, AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT  THESE KIND OF TREATMENTS WORK, AND BY WORKING  TOGETHER AND FOCUSING AND PRIORITIZING WHERE WE PLACE  THESE TREATMENTS, THEY DO WORK, THEY DO HAVE AN  EFFECT, AND IT'S A WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO  LIVE WITH FIRE GOING INTO CHANGING TIMES IN THE  FUTURE.

>> Laura: MICHIKO, WE ARE  OUT OF TIME, BUT LAST WORDS.

>> Martin: YES, THANK YOU.

I WON'T SUGARCOAT IT.

WE ARE IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

NEW MEXICO IS IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

THE GOOD NEWS, THOUGH, IS THAT WE KNOW WHAT TO DO  ABOUT IT.

DENNIS HAS TALKED ABOUT  MECHANICAL THINNING, PRESCRIBED FIRE.

SO WE KNOW WHAT TO DO IN ORDER TO HELP THE FIVE  NATIONAL FORESTS IN NEW MEXICO BE HEALTHY AND BE  RESILIENT.

AND WORKING TOGETHER WITH  OUR RESIDENTS IN NEW MEXICO, WE CAN GET THERE.

SO I AM VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE, BUT IT  STARTS WITH COMMITMENT TO ADDRESSING THE WILDFIRE  CRISIS THAT'S BEFORE US RIGHT NOW.

>> Laura: WELL, THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING IN TO HAVE  THIS IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Lou: THANK YOU TO LAURA AND TO THE U.S. FOREST  SERVICE FOR MAKING ALL THREE OF OUR GUESTS AVAILABLE.

LAURA HAS BEEN COVERING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT’S FIRE  PROTOCOLS FOR YEARS NOW.

YOU CAN WATCH ALL OF HER  COVERAGE, INCLUDING A STORY ABOUT THE GROWING FIRE RISK  IN THE CIBOLA NATIONAL FOREST IN THE SANDIA  MOUNTAINS, IT'S ALL ON THE 'OUR LAND' YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW, WE’LL CLOSE THE SHOW TODAY WITH NEWS ON UPDATED  COVID-19 VACCINES AVAILABLE AT DOCTOR’S OFFICES,  PHARMACIES, AND PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICES.

STATE HEALTH DIRECTOR MIRANDA DURHAM SAYS EVERYONE  SIX MONTHS AND OLDER SHOULD GET VACCINATED, REGARDLESS  OF PRIOR COVID SHOTS.

RSV AND THE FLU HAVEN’T HIT  NEW MEXICO HARD.

YET, ANYWAY.

BUT COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE RISING.

CASES AREN'T AT PANDEMIC LEVELS, BUT VACCINE RATES  HAVE DECLINED, WHICH IS RAISING CONCERNS FOR  DOCTORS.

MOST INSURANCE PLANS COVER  THE BOOSTER, BUT IF YOU'RE NOT INSURED, THE EASIEST WAY  TO GET VACCINATED IS THROUGH THE CDC'S BRIDGE ACCESS  PROGRAM.

IT OFFERS LIMITED FREE SHOTS  THROUGH THE END OF DECEMBER 2024.

MAJOR PHARMACIES, INCLUDING WALGREENS AND CVS, ARE  PARTICIPATING.

THE VACCINES FOR CHILDREN  PROGRAM ALSO PROVIDES DOSES TO CHILDREN WHOSE PARENTS  MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD THEM.

YOU CAN FIND YOUR NEAREST VACCINE PROVIDER AT  VACCINENM.ORG.

AND JUST THIS WEEK, THE  STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT ANNOUNCED THAT ALL NEW  MEXICANS CAN GET FOUR FREE AT HOME TESTS BY VISITING  COVIDTESTS.GOV.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>>   FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO  In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.