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- [Narrator] Tonight on "Utah Insight," the rising cost of going to college.

- At first it was really, really stressful.

- [Narrator] Utah's aggressive plan to overhaul higher education.

- Growing up, it's always been a decision of mine, it's like that.

I always told my grandma how like, "Oh, I'm going to be the one."

- [Narrator] Plus, what's being done to reach underserved students, ensuring access for everyone.

(smooth music plays) - Welcome to Utah Insight.

I'm Raeann Christensen.

In the past five years, Salt Lake Tribune reports, Utah colleges and universities have raised tuition by more than a hundred million dollars.

Despite that, Utah public colleges do have some of the lowest tuition rates in the nation.

According to collegetuitioncompare.com, for the academic school year 2020-2021, the average cost of tuition fees, for public colleges in Utah is nearly $4,300 for in-state.

And about $10,600 for out of state.

That's lower than the national average of about $6,500 for in states, and nearly $18,000 for out of state.

Joining us to talk about the future of higher education, Commissioner Dave Woolstenhulme, with the Utah System of Higher Education.

Joining us by Skype, Donielle Savoie, director for Center of Diversity and Inclusion at Southern Utah University.

And Curt Larsen, Assistant Vice President for student services at Salt Lake Community College.

Thank you all so much for joining us.

Now, first off, I do want to talk about tuition.

So, tuition increases, this year, range from 2.5% to about 6%.

Dave, how are we doing, as far as the state goes, where tuition and tuition hikes?

- Yeah, that's a really good question, and it's one of the top priorities of the board, is to make sure that all students can afford tuition, regardless of whether it's a tech college, or one of our universities, and everything in between.

So I, we're very fortunate, the state of Utah, that our legislature really cares, and supports, and is working with us to keep tuition prices as low as we possibly can.

While we are, on average, quite low, when you look at the country, we're not low enough.

It's still inhibiting a lot of students from being able to access education.

So, while our overall average of tuition increases last year was just under 2%, we know that 2% has a negative impact on several of our students.

And so, we're, we're definitely looking at affordability, how we major affordability.

When you think of affordability, it's really different for everybody, every single person that has a different major, but it's one of the top priorities of the board, is to really look at that, and look at the barriers that it is creating for several of our students, and then trying to identify ways that we can remove those barriers in state aid, financial aid from the federal government, whatever we can do to help make that accessible to all students.

- Okay, this year, Southern Utah University asked for no increase intuition.

They asked to decrease the amount charged in fees, which has never actually happened before.

Donielle, how is the school able to do this and why?

- I really think it's, we need to give credit to President Wyatt.

He was very intentional, about making sure that our students have access.

That's pretty much it, it's just a passion of his to have higher education be affordable and accessible.

- That's it, that's incredible.

Absolutely incredible.

Curt, a lot of people, potential students are questioning the cost of a degree versus the value.

What would you say to perspective students, that are questioning this?

- Yeah, fair, you know, it's interesting, I was just looking at some research a couple of days ago on this, before being invited on the show.

A 25 year old, high school, male dropout, in the state of Utah, will earn, on average, about $31,000 over the course of their 40 year working career.

So, that's about a million and a quarter dollars, earning, over their lifetime.

Now, they pay 10% income tax, they'll pay into the system about $125,000, of those earnings.

Take that same 25 year old, get him a college degree, and his earnings increased to over $83,000.

That's a lifetime earnings of three and a third million dollars.

At a 20% tax rate, that student is now going to, or that adult is going to pay into the system a little over $600,000 in taxes.

So, both, for the individual, $1 million or $3 million?

That's a no brainer.

And for the, for the, you know, for society, overall, the benefit of, a wider, and more diverse tax base is also something, I think, we can all get behind.

The idea of, you know, quibbling over whether we should give a student some scholarship dollars for 10 or $20,000 seems, almost ludicrous, when you think about the, sort of, longterm impacts.

Positively, just economically, let alone all of the other, sort of, benefits that someone with a college degree gets, in terms of, better health outcomes for themselves and their family.

- Rae, and one of the things I want to add to that, and I think it's something we got to really focus on, the state of Utah, moving forward is, you know, the legislature brought all, all the public institutions in the state together last year.

From the tech colleges, to the University of Utah.

So now, we're 16 strong across the state.

The thing that, and Curt is absolutely right, the return on investment is there for education.

Where I get really concerned is when we get a student into the wrong pathway.

Let's say they go to the University of Utah, but they really wanted to be a diesel mechanic.

We know getting that student completed is very, unlikely.

It, the odds are just against that student, because they're not where they want to be.

But now, we're 16 strong, with all the opportunities for students, that completion, we hope, is going to increase significantly across our system, because we get students in the right pathway, where they're really, their heart is, and where they, they want to be.

Then, that, the completion rates are gonna go up.

The thing that worries me about tuition is you don't get that return on investment unless you complete.

We have way too many students that don't complete.

Now they have some college, no degree.

They may have student loans coupled with that.

They may have a lot of, anxiety, they may have a lot of, even depression, of not being a completer, and so there's a lot of baggage that goes with that.

And so, we're really focused on making sure that students know of all the opportunities that are out there, and one's not any better than the other.

The one that's better is what's best for that student, and where their real interest, and where their real, career opportunities lie, for them.

And it's not the same for every single person, right?

It's different and too many times, we forced, probably unintentionally, we forced students into a pathway that we think, or parents think, is best for them.

I'm not so sure the student himself has had enough say, because they just haven't had enough information to identify that.

So, that's probably the thing that concerns me more, on the return on the investment, is do we get them completed?

Are they going to see the benefit that Curt just talked about, by being completed and start to, to really get the benefit of being a college graduate.

- Oh, you mentioned the partnership.

I think when students do recognize they're on the, wrong path, or the path that's not for them, they can transfer credits between institutions.

That way, they don't have to start over and, spend money.

So, I really think that partnership is, is really important in terms of equity.

- Absolutely and that overhaul of the education, we'll talk a little bit more about that, in just a few minutes.

Astrid Tuminez is the seventh president of Utah Valley University, and the first woman to lead the school.

In a recent Deseret News op-ed, she talked about bridging the gap in Utah between college and employment saying, "I grew up in a family of seven children with a father who earned the equivalent of less than $50 a month.

As president of UVU, I understand the hunger and striving of students and families.

The education we offer helps our students find decent jobs and achieve a measure of financial success.

Their chances for a healthy, happy, dignified, and productive life increase.

That is a worthy mandate for higher education- and a mission that UVU is proud to fulfill."

Now, according to Wall Street Journal, entry-level college graduate jobs fell by 45% during the pandemic.

So, I'm sure last spring, I'm sure graduate, graduates now are having a hard time finding jobs.

Curt, how do you feel about this impact?

- Well, I think it's, obviously, a challenge that, you don't choose when you graduate, what the job market is going to be like.

It does look like things are rebounding significantly in the last few months, though.

Anecdotally, I've heard of lots of our students, and student leaders who graduated, who are finding gainful employment.

People are hiring again.

- Donielle, what is being done to bridge that gap between graduating and a career, at Southern Utah University?

- I think, Brandon Street is the director of the career center, here.

He has really worked hard in terms of offering, internships, even when everything was shut down, due to the pandemic, students have the opportunity to interact with employers, employers through virtual job fairs.

And then, the new positions that have been created by the state, that work at the workforce services center, they can also serve as a resource to, kind of, bridge students when they graduate to gainful employment.

- Rae, and one of the things that, again, top priority to the board of the strategic plan, is to have gainful employment.

Meaning that, we have our students start in a pathway that, where there is meaningful employment at the end.

Now, I'm a firm believer that all education is good, but not all education has the same outcome, as far as jobs and opportunities.

Depending on what's going on within, you know, the economy and industry at the time.

So, what we're really focused on is to help students know, early on, if I go into this particular field, what is the opportunity for employment at the end?

And Curt hit it right on, sometimes we don't know.

But my biggest fear is we're not graduating enough students in the right fields to really take care of the state of Utah.

That's, that's what I'm hearing more and more, from our industry partners, every single day, is we need more computer scientists, we need more engineers.

We need more of, in certain areas, that we're just not producing enough of.

And maybe we're over-producing in some other areas, and so, that's one of the priorities of the board, is really look at that, because I think our students need to know that going in.

I think we owe that to them.

As they pay this tuition, which is not inexpensive, regardless of where, walk of life you're from.

We owe that to them and saying, "Okay, if you complete this program, here are the outcomes, right?"

And then, it's a lot on the student, and how well they do and, and how they make those connections, and so forth.

But, at least they know they're going into a field where there is gainful employment, and the opportunity will probably be there, if things continue as they are.

- Definitely, it gives them peace of mind going into- - Exactly - Right.

So, last week, president Biden says he will appeal a federal judge's ruling that deemed, an Obama era program on DACA, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, illegal.

The program protects young immigrants from deportation.

President Biden saying in part, the decision was deeply disappointing and, "While the court's order does not now affect current DACA recipients, this decision nonetheless relegates hundreds of thousands of young immigrants to an uncertain future.

It is my fervent hope that through reconciliation or other means, Congress will finally provide security to all Dreamers who have lived too long in fear."

Donielle, how does this federal DACA ruling, and the president's response make you feel?

- I really feel like the president is on the right track, in terms of, supporting these students, these DACA recipients.

And, I think the state of Utah is, definitely on the right path to supporting these students.

Because, number one, they get in-state tuition, whether they're documented or undocumented and, just providing that access is important.

And then, in terms of affording school, they are allowed to be recipients of private scholarships.

So, no, they're not eligible for federal funds, but I believe the state works really hard, in terms of, providing access to financial resources.

- Dave, the Utah Board of Higher Education approved a resolution vowing to help Dreamers succeed in Utah.

I'm sure decisions like these might make it a little more difficult, but, why is this important, and is it working?

- It's not working good enough, let's put it that way.

It something when you need to continue to work on.

And I think the state of Utah is doing some really good things in this area.

The state board wants to do more.

I would love to get to the fact where these, these students have access to federal financial aid.

They're contributors to society.

They're fulfilling key roles.

They're, they're, they're just like us every single day, trying to make ends meet, and doing great things within our communities.

They're engaged in, in, in the, the politics of what we do.

They're engaged in everyday life.

Just like, just like our own sons and daughters.

So, I just want to continue to do more.

It's going to be critical to the success of our state.

I think we're seeing the benefits of that already, but we have more to do.

These individuals have got to feel safe.

They got to feel secure.

We've got to make sure that access is available to them, just like any other student in the state of Utah.

- We have more than 10,000 DACA recipients, here in Utah, but very few are accessing higher education.

Curt, what can we do to change that?

What resources are available for them?

- Right, well, so I'm proud to say that Salt Lake Community College is one of two institutions in the state, the University of Utah being the other, that has a Dream Center on their campus.

So this supports, Deferred Action, Childhood Arrivals, DACA recipients, and undocumented students alike, in a variety of ways.

We have found some private dollar scholarships, as Donielle was mentioning.

Our Bruin Dreams scholarships support several students each year in, in tuition costs, and, and other ways.

I think most of the institutions in the state have a lot of resources available to them.

Along the Wasatch Front most, most students ID cards come with a bus pass.

So, if they have transportation issues, they can use the UTA system free of charge.

Most of us have food pantries on campus, if a food insecurity is an issue that they're struggling with, and then all of the other resources.

But, you know, you mention the uncertainty of a, an uncertain job market.

What about the uncertainty of whether one of your family members will still be here next week?

It's, it's a, it's a tough problem that those kids, when they were brought here, didn't ask for, and I think we're, we're on the right track.

Dave's absolutely right, that we're doing more and more each year at each institution, but, more we can do.

- Donielle, what resources are available where you're at?

- Well, down here, we are a very small university and growing, but we do have my coordinator here, Landry Igiraneza.

He actually helps our undocumented students.

We have workshops in place where they can work on their applications themselves, instead of having to pay someone locally, because that is, it's unbelievable how much some attorneys charge for, for that resource.

And then we also have a financial wellness coordinator, Ashley Zimmerman.

She works really hard, in terms of, securing funding and that they do have access to or, that they're eligible for.

- And, maybe one more thing that I would add, and Donielle just sparked my interest in this, is we just got funding a year ago with the legislature and some internal funds that we have to put college access advisors, peer nears, in over 92 high schools.

And, I often think about these types of students, as well as many other students, that just don't know what's next.

I mean, you know, they, they, they probably don't have the support at home.

I mean, they probably got good support, but maybe some people that haven't navigated the system, and don't know what's available to them.

I think these near peers, that are going to be working in these high schools, it's going to be our charge to seek these individuals out.

Seek individuals out that need the extra support and help to be able to navigate the system.

It's, it's sometimes hard for any of us to navigate, let alone somebody that may not have the additional resources that, that need to be provided to everybody.

So, that's going to be a charge of our, of our college access advisors, to really start working with this population of students that needs the extra support and help.

- Absolutely, that's great to hear they'll start in high school.

Students all over the country experienced a disruption in their learning.

As COVID-19 swept across the world, here in Utah, one university student lost her job and housing, but learned a valuable lesson that she shared with our Liz Adeola.

- I'm a very independent person.

I've always wanted to be something bigger.

And so, college was, kind of like, a step forward.

- [Liz] Gabby Caldera's vision for her future, was crystal clear from the start.

- Growing up, it's always been a decision of mine.

It's like that, I always told my grandma, like, "I'm going to be the one.

I'm going to be the one to make something of myself."

And she'd be like, "Okay, you can do that.

If you put your mind to it, you can do that."

And so, just growing up, it's always been my decision to do that.

- [Liz] To go from Granger High School, in West Valley City, to a university and beyond.

In 2020 Gabby was a student at Dixie State University with good grades, and a good job that she used to pay for her tuition.

But then, the COVID-19 pandemic hit.

- I did get laid off because of COVID.

- [Liz] And her parent's work hours were cut.

Money was tight and tuition was due.

- It was really, really stressful.

Like, all the stuff I had to move and, you know, everything that was going on, like, you can't do this, you can't do that.

Talking to advisors and all that, just kinda like, like taking my classes online, that, I just kinda got lost at one point.

Like, I didn't know what I needed.

I didn't know what to do.

I didn't know where to go.

At first I was like, "God, like I, I gotta stop school?"

Or, you know, I was like, "I don't really know what to do."

Yeah, my mom's a really smart person.

So she's like, she's like, "There's a lot more schools down here."

She's like, "There's, even if you go to like, Salt Lake Community College or something," she like, "it's better than stopping."

- [Liz] And a chance meeting with the University of Utah's, Uintah basin, Pathways Coordinator, Martha Macomber, led to even more clarity.

- I was nervous to come to the University of Utah, because, tuition and all.

I wasn't really prepared for it.

My advisor, Martha, helped me out.

- [Liz] Martha took Gabby under her wing, and helped her enroll at the U, and pay for it, through scholarships for students from the Goshute tribe.

- The beginning of fall, like that August, to like December-ish, I didn't really have anything, but clothes.

- [Liz] And a drive to continue her pursuit of learning.

By day, Gabby went to school and worked temporary jobs.

And by night, she slept on her parents' floor, keeping her grandmother's words of encouragement near.

- I was just kinda like, "She wouldn't want me to be oh, crying and doing all that."

So I just kinda like, it's life, it goes on.

So just keep doing what you're doing and pushing it.

Growing up, too, I always just tell her like, oh, you know, "I'm going to do this and do that.

You're going to come with me to do this.

I can't wait to be at my graduation with you," and this and that.

And even though she never made it that far, I know like, her presence would have been there.

- [Liz] Gabby's grandmother died in 2013.

But Gabby says she can still feel her presence.

Still hear her positive words, pushing her forward to succeed.

- She was always the one to be proud, of, I know she would always tell, like tell my family, "Oh yeah, well she's in school, she's doing this," you know?

So she would always, she's proud, I know she'd be proud of me.

Like really, really proud of me.

- I think Gabby's story is one we heard quite a bit through the pandemic.

We're told that 36% of US households canceled plans to pursue advanced degrees through the pandemic.

Dave, how did we do in Utah?

- We were better than that.

We, our students were, were troopers, to be honest with you, and our institutions did a wonderful job of transitioning from face-to-face to online.

Was it perfect?

No.

But, I can say that we had an honest effort from all of our faculty and staff to really try to make a, a really bad situation as good as it possibly can.

I've received many emails from parents and from students thanking our institutions for as well as they navigated that system throughout, a really difficult year.

- Okay, and some of the biggest drops in enrollment were at the most affordable schools, who serve the most diverse and lowest income students.

Curt was this the case at Salt Lake Community College?

Are we bouncing back where enrollment's concerned?

- Yeah, good question, as, as Dave said, we were not, as, as bad off as some of our peers around the country, but we did see a pretty steep drop at SLCC, right when the pandemic hit and, and subsequent semesters.

We are pulling out of it now, and I think people are cautiously optimistic that they can come back and, and get back to a, a new normal.

- And speaking about making sure everyone has access to higher education, Donielle, what is being done to reach that underserved community, and making sure everyone does have access to education?

- Well, I will answer your question, but I also wanted to add that SUU is one of the few institutions around the nation that actually experienced an increase of enrollment throughout the pandemic.

I believe our enrollment went up about 12%.

So that, is, that's amazing.

But, going, to answer your question, access, it was, it was provided because we didn't increase, tuition.

And some of our students even received refunds for the fees that they didn't use during the pandemic.

They were paying for resources that they weren't utilizing, here locally, because they were home, and so the president agreed to refund fees.

- Okay, and, I do want to get to this, the state is into, a year into an aggressive plan to overhaul higher education.

You're part of that board, Dave.

Can you tell us about this plan, and how this is going to affect students?

Yeah, it, very positively, to answer your question, with, with students.

And the reason I say that is because, we had two systems before, the tech college system, the degree granting institutions, and sometimes there was some butting of heads, and even fighting for students.

And again, it's kind of, going back to my remarks I made here, earlier, is every student has a pathway where they're going to excel.

And now, by having all that together, we're really letting the students decide where it is that they're going to excel.

And also, as I, as I look at Donielle, a perfect example of, really where, the two institutions that are side-by-side, Southwest Tech and Southern Utah University, have really paved the way of making sure that they're stackable credentials.

To where a student can start at a tech college, and then move right over into a degree granting institution.

So, they may get a skillset.

They can go to work.

They can do what they need to do.

But then, many times, industry, then, is stepping in and paying for the tuition for the next two years, or three years, whatever's needed, to move that person into management.

To be able to move that person along within that same industry, in that same employment.

So, we just see some major advantages that are going to come out of this.

And we always ask ourself, and we always need to ask ourself, "What's best for students?"

It's not what's best for the institution.

It's what's best for the student and where they want to be.

- And, Donielle, how is that working out for you guys?

Do you see a lot more, I mean, you guys, it sounds like Southern Utah University is doing great.

So, how, how are the students doing with this new, new program?

- They're doing very well.

I believe the next academic year, with Southwest Tech, we have a very, very difficult bachelor's in nursing program.

So, the students that are in the LPN program at Southwest Tech are automatically accepted into the BSN program.

And that is revolutionary, considering how difficult the program is.

I think that's providing a lot of access and, and really going to improve the lives of a lot of students.

- And, and with that, I would just want to, and she's absolutely right.

Think about a student starting an LPN program, to be able to pay the tuition at a tech college, which is, because it's suplemented by 90% from the legislature, which is purposely done for access, to be able to start that first year, get that LPN under their, under their, their belt, and then be able to move over into a degree granting institution to complete that BSN.

It's just a, it's just a wonderful thing for students and, and that's just becoming much easier, now, we're one system.

- Absolutely, it sounds like the future of higher education, here on Utah, is on a good, a good path.

We are out of time, it goes by so fast.

I thank you so much for being here.

So, next week on Utah Insight, the COVID-19 pandemic brought a new era of remote learning in American schools, but experts worry unconnected children from lower income families will be left behind.

We bring together a panel of experts to talk about the ways to bridge this digital divide.

And we want to hear from you.

Share your thoughts, by using the methods you see on your screen.

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Thanks so much for watching Utah Insight, and we'll see you back here next week.

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