[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're now joined by Doug O'Malley, who's director of Environment New Jersey.

Good to see you, Doug.

- Great to see you, Steve.

- You got it.

Hey, Doug, let's talk EVs, right?

Electric vehicles.

So the Governor... We've done a lot of programming around clean energy.

You can check it out.

You said recently, quote, as it relates to the governor rolling back the so-called tax, the sales tax exemption for people who purchase EVs, you said, "Rolling back the sales tax exemption and adding an EV tax creates a schizophrenic message to potential EV drivers."

What the heck are we talking about here?

- Well, we're talking about kind of a Jekyll and Hyde moment right now where we need to be having incentives to make it easier to buy an electric vehicle, but the bill that's on the governor's desk right now will have a $1,000 EV tax for drivers that wanna be able to buy an EV.

On top of that, the proposal on the governor's budget to phase out the sales tax exemption, it's taking away another incentive, right?

So we're still at a place right now that drivers are saying, "Is an electric vehicle right for me?"

And one of the reasons why electric vehicles do make sense is they save money in the long term, but when you still go to the dealership, it's helpful to have incentives.

- Okay, but the governor is saying, and certain members of the legislature, disproportionately Democrats, are saying, "We need to get that EV money or money from EV electric vehicle owners.

We need that money, and they need to pay into and pay their fair share of the so-called transportation trust fund," which is the stable source of funding to keep our roads and bridges and our infrastructure, not a sexy word but important word, keep it to where it needs to be.

Why shouldn't those who purchase electric vehicles not pay into that?

That's the argument.

You say?

- Yeah, I mean, the simple response is no one is arguing that EV drivers should be free riders.

Our argument is that EV drivers shouldn't be paying disproportionately more than other drivers.

Right now, the transportation trust fund, it's $2 billion a year.

This EV tax will only raise $30 million, right?

So what we're saying is, let's be a little more equitable.

Electric vehicles are very efficient.

You should not pay more to drive an EV than gas guzzlers.

- Why do you think the governor and other Democrats in the State House would be advocating for this if, in fact, they are committed to climate change?

- I think this is, you know, this is a moment where, you know, EV drivers haven't had to pay, you know, a road or infrastructure tax before, and so the legislature is saying, "Well, let's make this right."

I think the numbers are off, right?

So that is- - Hold on.

Sorry for interrupting, Doug.

You're not against increased fees for those who purchase electric vehicles.

You're concerned and you're opposing the amount?

- Right, that's right.

We're opposing the amount.

If you look at the numbers here, it's a $250 fee.

We think it should be closer to less than 100, and then it's also a double whammy because it's not just paying one year.

It's paying four years upfront, right?

So that's sending the wrong message to the driver who's trying to figure out if they wanna get behind the wheel of an EV in the dealership.

- Okay, the other part of the discussion that isn't just about transportation but also about climate change and trying to reduce the number of vehicles on the road that are not electric vehicles, is the issue around New Jersey Transit, an agency in serious financial trouble.

For years, this has been going on, Doug.

In fact, I think the governor's accurate quote is, "I will fix New Jersey Transit if it kills me," and I think it might, meaning that's what he said.

I'm not saying that, obviously.

How do you describe the governor's policies around creating greater financial strength for New Jersey Transit so they don't fall off the fiscal cliff, A, and B, what does that have to do with increased fares for people who ride our trains and buses?

- Well, I think it's critical to know that when we talk about the fiscal cliff, this is not a bump, right?

This is literally like Thelma and Louise driving off a cliff.

This is- - What does that mean?

So New Jersey Transit falls off the Thelma and Louise cliff.

So what does that mean?

It means that they don't exist?

- No, it means a fair hike that would make this hike look like nothing, and it would mean the end of service for rail and bus lines, right?

I mean, we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars that can't be met.

This would mean we would not have New Jersey Transit as we know it today.

So when we talk about this as a crisis, that is the moment we're in, and this is really- - So you support a fare hike?

- No, we do not support the fare hike.

We do support dedicated funding because you cannot balance a billion-dollar gap on the backs of transit riders.

We have not had a fare hike in, you know, multiple years at this point, but the problem is, if you literally are telling bus riders to pay 15% more, that's not actually gonna solve the problem, and this is where the governor really does deserve credit because of the first time ever, he's proposing a dedicated transit funding.

That has never happened before.

Every other transit agency in America that's big has dedicated funding.

We don't, and that's part of the reason we're in this fix.

- Yeah, but Doug, here's the other part of that conversation.

So the governor proposed a corporate transit fee.

This would be a tax, an increased tax on corporations in the state of New Jersey with over $10 million in profits.

Is that accurate?

- Correct.

- Now we're gonna have business leaders that we're actually taping today, including Michele Siekerka, who is the CEO, the President and CEO of the Business and Industry Association in the state, and also Tom Bracken, the head of the Chamber of Commerce.

They're against it.

They're saying, "Look, we need a dedicated source of funding for New Jersey Transit, but you can't increase taxes on corporations because, A, they're gonna wanna leave.

B, we may lose jobs in the process," but you support that tax.

- Yeah.

I mean, this is a do or die moment for New Jersey Transit, right?

And whether you're a business leader or whether you're a transit rider or whether you're a driver, New Jersey Transit going away in a way that would be, you know, unfathomable, you know, that's the reality we're faced, right?

So these are not semantics, right?

If we want a transit system that's literally gonna have hundreds of thousands of people take it on a daily basis, we need to fund it, and that's what the solution the governor has proposed.

Right?

So- - Yeah, I know, but respectfully, Doug, you're for that tax.

- Correct.

- But you're not for increased fares for the people who use trains and buses because?

- Well, it's simple math.

If we want to be able to balance the budget, you go through the fare hike, you're still gonna have the fiscal cliff.

Even with the governor's proposal, the fare hike that's on the table will depress ridership, right?

So, you know, this is a legacy of underinvestment in New Jersey Transit, right?

So if you want to be able to get more people to take the train than the bus, you don't raise fares.

- All right, I wanna make it clear we're taping on the 19th of March.

This conversation with Doug will be seen later.

Hey, Doug, could you imagine a lot could happen in the State House between now and next month or so?

Real quick on this.

Could you give us a minute or less on offshore wind?

Where are we in New Jersey these days?

- Well, 2024 has been the year of offshore wind coming back, right?

We saw an announcement in January of two projects in the New York Bight that are incredibly significant, the Leading Light Wind as well as Attentive Energy.

These products are about 40 miles off the Jersey shore and will literally produce, you know, hundreds of megawatts of clean, renewable energy.

That won't happen until, you know, early in the next decade, 2031, but it shows that there is a path forward, not so far offshore wind in New Jersey.

We've seen offshore wind projects get up and running off the coast of Long Island and Massachusetts.

So this is a reminder that offshore wind is not going away.

- Doug O'Malley is the director of Environment New Jersey.

Hey, Doug, thank you for joining us.

We'll continue the conversation about a whole range of issues dealing with the environment in the state of New Jersey.

Thanks, Doug.

- Great.

Thank you, Steve.

- You got it.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

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