>> SENATORS JOIN IN DIFFERENT QUESTIONS, AND THE QUESTION WAS NOT TECHNICALLY CORRECT THE WAY THEY ASKED.

IT IS NOT EASY SITUATION.

>> DID YOU CORRECT THEM?

>> I PROBABLY DID.

>> ARE YOU TRYING TO REPLICATE THE HUMAN MIND?

>> ARTICLE IS NOT REPLICATE HUMAN MIND ANYMORE THAN THE WRIGHT BROTHERS GOAL WAS TO REPLICATE BIRDS.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCU PUBLIC BROADCASTING AND BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

NOW, "““IN PRINCIPLE" WITH MICHAEL GERSON AND AMY HOLMES.

AMY: WELCOME TO "““IN PRINCIPLE."

WE JUST GOT BACK FROM A WEEK ON THE ROAD AND HAD A LOOK IN THE FUTURE.

MICHAEL: I CAN TELL YOU IT IS FASCINATING, MIND BLOWING, AND AT TIMES SCARY STUFF.

AMY: TODAY, WE EXAMINE THE CROSS-SECTION BETWEEN TECHNOLOGY AND SOCIETY.

WHAT DO THESE ADVANCEMENTS NEED TODAY AND HOW SHOULD THEY BE USED TOMORROW?

MICHAEL: SCOTT PHOENIX IS AT THE FOREFRONT OF MAKING ROBOTS WORK FOR US AS FOUNDER OF THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE COMPANY VICARIOUS.

MORE FROM HIM A LITTLE LATER.

BUT FIRST, MICROSOFT COFOUNDER AND PHILANTHROPIST BILL GATES ON HOW HE IS TACKLING SOME OF THE WORLD'’’S MOST VEXING HUMANITARIAN PROBLEMS.

BILL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

THERE WAS A POLL THAT CAME OUT LAST YEAR ACROSS 36 COUNTRIES THAT SAID, WHERE THE CONSENSUS WAS THAT THE WORLD IS GETTING WORSE.

ARE THEY RIGHT OR WRONG?

BILL: WELL, THEY'RE VERY WRONG.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE .

WHETHER IT'S HOW LONG PEOPLE LIVE, HOW MANY CHILD SURVIVE, REDUCING EXTREME POVERTY, THE WORLD IS IMPROVING AND AT A PRETTY INCREDIBLE RATE.

MICHAEL: AND WHY ARE PEOPLE SO PESSIMISTIC THEN?

BILL: PART OF IT AS WE ARE HEARING ABOUT BAD THINGS.

WE HEAR THE WORLD IS MORE VIOLENT EVEN THOUGH IT IS LESS MYELIN.

WE ARE AGING, SO WE HAVE A NOSTALGIA THAT WE ARE YOUNG AND ENERGETIC AND I AM NOT GETTING BETTER, SO HOW CAN THE WORLD GET BETTER?

WE HAVE SELECTIVE MEMORIES.

MICHAEL: WHERE ARE THE AREAS WHERE IT IS MOST ROMANTIC, WHERE THE GAINS HAVE BEEN EXTRAORDINARY?

BILL: HEALTH IS THE MOST DRAMATIC I WOULD SAY.

IN 1960, IN MOST PARTS OF THE WORLD, A THIRD OF CHILDREN WOULD DIE BEFORE THE AGE OF FIVE.

EVEN AS YOU GOT TO 1990, WE STILL HAD 12 MILLION CHILDREN UNDER FIVE DYING.

NOW, WE'VE MORE THAN CUT THAT IN HALF.

IT'S LESS THAN 5 MILLION.

MICHAEL: THAT'’’S AMAZING.

BILL: THE LAST 15 YEARS HAVE BEEN THE HUGE ACCELERATION.

THERE'S SOME PARTICULAR EFFORTS, THE WORK ON MALARIA WITH THE GLOBAL FUND AND PRESENT MALARIA INITIATIVE, NEW VACCINES.

IT'S A THING CALLED GOBI, WHERE THE VACCINES WERE ONLY GOING TO THE WEALTHY COUNTRIES WHERE THE RISK OF DEATH WAS MUCH LOWER.

ALL THOSE VACCINES NOW FOR DIARRHEA, PNEUMONIA ARE GETTING OUT TO ALL THE KIDS OF THE WORLD, INCLUDING AFRICA.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT ALONE IS THE MAJORITY OF THIS DECREASE FROM THE 12 MILLION DEATHS DOWN TO 5 MILLION.

MICHAEL: WHY DO YOU THINK IN THE INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES WE ARE SEEING SUCH A REVOLT AGAINST GLOBALISM?

BILL: ACTUALLY, COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA, THE IDEA THEY ARE GOING TO BE A BIG ACTOR IN THE WORLD AND INCREASING THEIR AID, MEETING WITH AFRICAN LEADERS, BUILDING REGIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE, THEY ARE MORE LIKELY WERE IN THE 1960'’’S WHERE WE RELEASE SAW OURSELVES AS REACHING OUT AND BEING MORE ENGAGED.

AMY: WHY THIS RETRENCHMENT, DO YOU THINK?

BILL: THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS GOING ON.

EVENTUALLY, YOU DO GET VOTES WHERE PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THE ELITE ARE NOT LISTENING TO THEM.

MAYBE THE ELITES ARE DOING BETTER THAN OTHERS, CREATING A VALUE SYSTEM THAT HAS GOTTEN AHEAD.

AMY: DO YOU EVER THINK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU?

BILL: BY SOME MEASURES, I AM QUITE ELITE.

MY WEALTH LEVEL, MY ENGAGEMENT, BUT YES, THIS IDEA THAT THE WORLD SHOULD WORK TOGETHER, TAKE A LONG-TERM VIEW, THAT THE VALUES OF THE WEST ARE IN AN ABSOLUTE SENSE BENEFICIAL AND ARE A PART ASIA HAS ADOPTED LOTS OF VALUES AND HAS DONE WELL WITH IT.

I AM A HUGE BELIEVER IN THE PATH WE HAVE BEEN GOING DOWN TO HELP THESE COUNTRIES AND MAKE THE WORLD A SMALLER PLACE.

MICHAEL: AS PART OF THAT RETRENCHMENT, THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION HAS PROPOSED ONE THIRD CUTS IN FOREIGN ASSISTANCE.

WHAT WOULD BE THE EFFECTS OF THAT IN THE WORLD, THAT KIND OF VACUUM OF AMERICAN LEADERSHIP?

BILL: WELL, THE U.S. IS THE LARGEST AID GIVER.

IT'S $30 BILLION OF $130 BILLION.

AND IT INCLUDES SOME PHENOMENAL THINGS, LIKE PEPFAR.

THAT'S KEEPING OVER 10 MILLION PEOPLE IN AFRICA ALIVE BECAUSE IT FUNDS THE MEDICINES THAT IF THEY TAKE THEM DAILY, THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING QUITE WELL AND ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR ECONOMY.

IT ALSO FUNDS THE MALARIA WORK , WHERE WE'VE CUT THE NUMBER OF DEATHS FROM A MILLION DOWN TO 400,000.

NOW IN THE LONG RUN, WITH THOSE RESOURCES, WE'LL BE ABLE TO CUT IT IN HALF AGAIN AND EVENTUALLY TAKE THAT MALARIA MAP AND SHRINK IT AND SHRINK IT AND DO IT WITH SMALLPOX, WHERE WE COMPLETELY ERADICATE IT FROM THE EARTH.

AMY: SO WHAT HAPPENS IF WE CUT AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WOULD LIKE A THIRD OF THAT AID?

BILL: BECAUSE OF THE DESIRE TO INCREASE MILITARY SPENDING BY $80 BILLION, THEY SAID THE HEALTH REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH MONEY SHOULD BE CUT TO ZERO.

SO AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, SOME CUTS ARE LIKELY TO, AND THIS IS THE LOW INTEREST, BEST ECONOMY YOU CAN IMAGINE.

THIS IS THE TIME WHEN YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING A SURPLUS.

AMY: SO DID YOU PERSONALLY WEIGH IN AND SAY, HEY, WE SHOULD BE DOING THIS?

BILL: IN TERMS OF THE AID BUDGET, YES, YOU KNOW, IN MY MEETINGS WITH TRUMP, FAR MORE MEETINGS ON THE HILL, MEETING WITH PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THESE THINGS, HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE THE EARLY DAYS OF PEPFAR.

YOU KNOW, I GET TO GO TO AFRICA AND SEE THE IMPACT AND SEE HOW WE'RE UPLIFTING THESE COUNTRIES.

AND SO, THE FACT THAT I'M PUTTING, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE MICROSOFT WEALTH AND WHAT WARREN BUFFETT HAS GIVEN TO OUR FOUNDATION, AND WE'RE MEASURING THE STUFF AND WE'RE VERY TOUGH MINDED ABOUT IT, ALLOWS ME TO COME IN AND SAY, HEY, THE U.S. FOREIGN AID, WHICH IS IN PARTNERSHIP WITH US, ACTUALLY FAR LARGER AND THEREFORE VERY, VERY CRITICAL, I CAN SPEAK ABOUT IT IN A WAY THAT IT'S HARD FOR THE AGENCIES THEMSELVES TO DO IN A CREDIBLE WAY.

AMY: YOU GET TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL OUR LEADERS HERE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT I KNOW.

THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO.

BILL: THAT'S RIGHT BECAUSE ON SOMETHING LIKE POLIO ERADICATION, YOU KNOW, OUR TEAM IS WORKING ON EVERY DAY.

ON THE HIV WORK IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHEN IS THE VACCINE COMING OR HOW DO WE PROTECT WOMEN.

THE GOVERNMENT GROUPS INVOLVED IN THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE FANTASTIC .

THOSE ARE BIG, BIG THINGS FOR US.

SO THESE ARE STRONG RELATIONSHIPS.

MICHAEL: TELL ME, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT POPULATE YOUR NIGHTMARES?

BILL: IF A DISEASE GOT OUT, EITHER NATURALLY CAUSED, A PANDEMIC LIKE A BAD FLU COMING ALONG, OR AN INTENTIONALLY CAUSED BIOTERRORISM THING, THEN YOU COULD GET LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DEATHS.

AMY: HOW DO YOU PROTECT AGAINST THAT?

BILL: WELL, THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT THE SCIENCE, HOW YOU MAKE VACCINES, HAS IMPROVED IMMENSELY.

MICHAEL: ELON MUSK PUTS ARTIFICIAL GENERAL INTELLIGENCE IN THIS CATEGORY.

DO YOU?

BILL: I REALLY DON'’’T.

HE IS RIGHT TO SAY THE BIGGEST CHANGE AGENT IN SOCIETY IS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

AND IT CAN ACCELERATE IN A WAY THAT MAKES IT FAIRLY UNIQUE TECHNOLOGY.

SO UNDERSTANDING, OK, WHAT ARE WEAPON SYSTEMS GOING TO LOOK LIKE?

YOU KNOW, WHICH COMPANIES HAVE THESE TOOLS, AND HOW SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO USE THEM?

AND EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT SUPER SMART, IT WILL BE SHAPING THE JOBS MARKET.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GREAT IN THE SENSE THAT YOU'LL HAVE MORE AND MORE PRODUCTIVITY, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE MORE THINGS, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF ADJUSTMENT THINGS AND TRAINING THINGS THAT NEED TO ANTICIPATE THAT AI OVER THE NEXT 20 YEARS WILL DRAMATICALLY CHANGE THINGS.

MICHAEL: WHAT ARE WE ON THE CUSP OF SOLVING THAT WILL FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE HUMAN EXPERIENCE?

BILL: WELL, THE SCIENCES ARE MOVING VERY FAST.

WITH AI, YOU GET VISION AND YOU GET ARTIFICIAL HANDS.

WITH GENETIC MANIPULATION, THE ABILITY TO SAY MAKE BETTER CROPS, TO ALSO CREATE NEW MEDICINES USING THOSE AS A FUNDAMENTAL TOOL.

THE ABILITY TO SIMULATE THINGS.

WE CAN SEE IN ADVANCE WHAT MIGHT GO ON.

NEW MATERIALS SCIENCE.

ENERGY IS ONE THAT, OF COURSE, WE'VE GOT ALMOST A DEADLINE BECAUSE WE NEED TO CHANGE ENERGY GENERATION TO AVOID THESE CLIMATE CHANGES.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT APPROACHES.

STORING ENERGY IS VERY, VERY HARD, BUT THERE'S GREAT ENTREPRENEURS THAT ARE PURSUING THAT APPROACH.

AMY: SO WE JUST SAW THAT MR. ZUCKERBERG ON CAPITOL HILL ANSWERING A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT PRIVACY AND FACEBOOK.

WHAT WAS YOUR VIEW OF THAT, AND HAVE WE RUN OUT WAY TOO FAR IN GIVING OUT PRIVATE INFORMATION TO SOCIAL MEDIA EVEN BEYOND WHAT WE KNOW AND THAT WE NEED TO KIND OF RATCHET IT BACK?

BILL: WELL, IT REMINDED ME WHEN I WENT IN FRONT OF A SENATE COMMITTEE.

AMY: WERE YOU FEELING FOR HIM?

BILL: OH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THESE ARE SERIOUS ISSUES.

I'M NOT DOWNPLAYING IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WITH SENATORS THROWING IN DIFFERENT QUESTIONS, AND THE QUESTION WASN'T TECHNICALLY CORRECT THE WAY THEY ASKED IT.

AMY: DO YOU CORRECT THEM?

BILL: DO YOU CORRECT THEM OR YOU DON'T CORRECT THEM?

IT'S NOT AN EASY SITUATION.

AMY: SO, DID YOU CORRECT THEM?

BILL: I PROBABLY DID.

MARK DID IT BETTER THAN I DID.

AND SO, THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT FACEBOOK FINDS ITSELF AT THE CENTER OF.

YOU KNOW, POLARIZATION.

ARE PEOPLE JUST TALKING TO PEOPLE THEY AGREE WITH?

YOU KNOW, WHAT IS HATE SPEECH THAT SHOULD BE CENSORED VERSUS FREE SPEECH?

AND THESE ISSUES ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION.

I THINK ON THE PRIVACY SIDE , ACTUALLY, EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE HAD TO APOLOGIZE AND MAKE CHANGES, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WE CAN COME TO A POINT WHERE CONSUMER EXPECTATIONS ARE MET.

HOPEFULLY THE WORLD DOESN'T ALL HAVE DIFFERENT POLICIES, THAT THERE'S SOME ALIGNMENT BETWEEN PARTICULARLY THE U.S. AND EUROPE, BUT IT'S A HUGE THING .

HE NEEDED TO GO AND APOLOGIZE.

NOW, ALL THE CREATIVITY OF THE COMPANY IS GOING AGAINST IMPROVING THOSE POLICIES.

MICHAEL: YES.

BILL, YOU'RE 62.

SOME PEOPLE THINK ABOUT RETIRING AT THAT POINT.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE NOT.

HOW DO YOU DEFINE YOUR MISSION AT THIS STAGE OF YOUR LIFE?

BILL: WELL, MOST OF MY TIME TOGETHER WITH MY WIFE MELINDA GOES INTO THE WORK OF THE FOUNDATION.

AND ABOUT 80% OF THAT IS TO GET RID OF THE DISEASES THAT AFFECT THE POOREST.

SO, IT REALLY IS POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY I HAVE 20 TO 30 YEARS TO WORK ON IT, THAT HIV, D.B., MALARIA, THESE COULD BE MEMORIES OF THE PAST.

SMALLPOX SMALLPOX IS THE ONLY CASE WHERE THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.

MOST PEOPLE JUST DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT AND YET, IT KILLED OVER TWO MILLION PEOPLE A YEAR.

MICHAEL: AND WE'RE CLOSE ON POLIO.

BILL: WE'RE SO CLOSE ON POLIO.

I MEAN, EVERY DAY WHEN I READ MY E-MAIL IT'S, DO WE HAVE A NEW CASE TODAY?

IF SO, WHERE WAS IT?

MICHAEL: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A POSSIBIST?

BILL: SAYING YOU ARE AN OPTIMIST -- WELL, THAT'S A TERM THAT HANS ROSLING USES TO TALK ABOUT THAT SAYING YOU'RE AN OPTIMIST ISN'T QUITE RIGHT BECAUSE THAT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE GOOD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT, THAT IT'S PREORDAINED.

THE REASON THINGS HAVE IMPROVED SO MUCH IS BECAUSE WE CARE A LOT.

UNLESS YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF WHAT DOES HUMANITY'S REPORT CARD LOOK LIKE AND THE OUTLIERS IN THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE SENSE, WITHOUT THAT, YOU'RE NOT MAKING THE PLANS FOR THE FUTURE.

MOST OF THE WORLD WAS VERY VERY POOR.

NOW, MOST OF THE WORLD IS MIDDLE INCOME.

WE CAN TAKE THE LAST BILLION OF THE 7 BILLION WHO ARE IN THIS LOWEST LEVEL, THE POVERTY LEVEL, AND GET THEM OUT.

WE HAVE ENOUGH WEALTH.

WE CAN, YOU KNOW, IMPROVE AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTIVITY.

WE CAN AVOID THE SETBACKS.

SO A POSSIBILIST HAS TO BE A, YOU KNOW, THINKER WHO SEES THIS SOMEWHAT IN NUMERIC TERMS.

AMY: WELL, WE'RE FORTUNATE THAT YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT SEES ALL OF THIS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHTS.

MICHAEL: THANK YOU, BILL.

BILL: GREAT TO BE HERE.

AMY: ACCORDING TO A GALLUP SURVEY, 76% AGREE THAT OVER THE NEXT DECADE, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WILL FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE WORK AND LIVE, WITH THE MAJORITY OF THEM SAYING THAT THE CHANGES WILL BE POSITIVE.

HOWEVER, 58% OF THOSE POLLED SAY NEW TECHNOLOGY IS A GREATER THREAT TO JOBS THAN INTEGRATION AND JOBS MOVING OVERSEAS.

TO TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF AI, WE SPOKE IN DALLAS WITH SCOTT PHOENIX, COFOUNDER OF THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE COMPANY VICARIOUS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

APPRECIATE IT.

SCOTT: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

MICHAEL: CAN YOU DEFINE THE ROBOT AGE?

SCOTT: ABSOLUTELY GOOD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS OR 30 YEARS, WE HAVE BEEN IN A TIME WHERE ROBOTS WERE USED ALMOST NOWHERE.

HOW MANY ROBOTS HAVE YOU SEEN LIKE A ROBOT WITH AN ARM OR SOMETHING.

ZERO.

EVERYONE HAS SEEN ZERO.

IT IS PARADOXICAL.

WE LIVE IN A WORLD RIGHT NOW WHERE ALL THE PARTS OF A ROBOT ARCHIE.

THE MOTOR, THE PLASTICS, THE CAMERA, THE ELECTED STICKS, EVERYTHING -- IS CHEAP AND NOBODY OWNS ROBOTS.

THAT IS BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE AI THAT CAN CONTROL A ROBOT TO ACCOMPLISH TASKS.

WE WILL GO THROUGH A TRANSITION FROM WHERE COMPUTERS WERE RARE THINGS THAT ONLY A HANDFUL OF COMPANIES OWNED TO COMPUTERS BEING EVERYWHERE, EVEN IN OUR POCKETS.

WE WOULD GO THROUGH A SIMILAR AGE WITH ROBOTS, WHERE THEY ARE RARE PIECES, VERY EXPENSIVE THAT NOBODY OWNS.

WE WILL GET TO A WORLD WHERE THEY ARE EVERYWHERE, MORE COMMON THAN CELL PHONES.

MICHAEL: MORE LIKE THE JETSONS AND LESS LIKE WALL-E. SCOTT: JETSONS ARE A BIGGEST VERSION FOR ME.

I WANT FLOATING CITIES AND FLYING CARS AND TALKING COMPUTERS.

I THINK WE CAN GET THERE AS A CIVILIZATION.

HOW GREAT WOULD LIFE BE IF WE ALL GOT TO LIVE IN THE JETSONS WORLD.

AMY: EXCELLENT TO US WHAT EXACTLY IS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

SCOTT: ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TODAY HAS DONE A LOT OF EXCITEMENT IN PRESS AND HOLLYWOOD THAT IT WILL ENSLAVE THE HUMAN RACE AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

AMY: "TERMINATOR 2."

SCOTT: EXACTLY.

IT IS GOOD FOR MAKING MOVIES BUT FAR FROM HOW IT WORKS.

IT IS A TOOL THAT TAKES A BIG DATA SET OF DATA AND MATCHES WHAT NEW THING IS SAYING -- IT IS SEEING TO THE DATA SET.

THAT IS A GOOD WAY OF RELATING TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

AMY: LET'’’S GET TO THAT.

AGI IS SOME THING SEPARATE AND DISTINCT.

CAN YOU SAY WHAT THAT IS?

SCOTT: ARTIFICIAL GENERAL INTELLIGENCE IS AI THAT INSTEAD OF MATCHING TO PATTERNS IT HAS SEEN BEFORE CAN REASON ABOUT CAUSE AND EFFECT AND CAN COME UP WITH NEW IDEAS AND CAN IMAGINE A POSSIBLE OR MANY POSSIBLE FUTURES AND MAKE ACTIONS BASED ON ITS IMAGINATION.

MICHAEL: ARE YOU TRYING TO REPLICATE THE HUMAN MIND?

IS IT POSSIBLE?

IS THAT YOUR GOAL?

SCOTT: IT IS NOT OUR GOAL TO REPLICATE THE HUMAN MIND ANYMORE THAN IT WAS THE RIGHT BROTHERS GOAL TO REPLICATE BIRDS.

BIRDS DO ALL KINDS OF STUFF THAT IS NOT RELATED TO FLYING AND THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT FOR THE PURPOSES OF BUILDING AN AIRPLANE SO WE ARE INTERESTED IN HAVING A DEVICE THAT CAN ANSWER IMPORTANT PROBLEMS ABOUT WHAT'’’S THE BEST WAY TO RESEARCH A CANCER CURE, OR HOW DO I CLEAN UP THIS RADIOACTIVE WASTE, OR TREAT PATIENTS WITH EBOLA?

THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT REQUIRE INTELLIGENCE, PER SE.

BUT THEY DON'’’T REQUIRE ANGER AND VENGEFULNESS OR THINGS THAT WE ASSOCIATE WITH BEING HUMAN.

MICHAEL: WHAT IS THE WILDEST MOST AMBITIOUS GOAL THAT AGI MIGHT SOLVE?

WORLD HUNGER, WORLD PEACE?

SCOTT: YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT INTELLIGENCE, COMPUTERIZED INTELLIGENCE.

YOU CAN JUST GO WILD WITH WHAT PROBLEM COULDN'’’T IT SOLVE?

BECAUSE IT'’’S JUST BASICALLY A BRAIN IN A BOX THAT CAN THINK FASTER THAN ANYONE ELSE'’’S, AND SO ANY PROBLEM THAT'’’S WITHIN REACH OF HUMANS SHOULD IN THEORY, IF ONE DAY WE'’’RE ABLE TO INVENT THIS THING, BE A PROBLEM THAT'’’S SOLVABLE BY AGI.

AND SO, I THINK THAT IS -- WHILE THAT'’’S EXCITING, I THINK THE MORE EXCITING STUFF IS THINGS THAT ARE ACTUALLY WITHIN REACH.

AMY: SO, GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES OF THAT.

SCOTT: SO, I THINK ROBOTICS ACTUALLY IS THE ONE THAT MOST EXCITES ME.

LIKE RIGHT NOW, EVERYTHING IN THIS ROOM THAT WE'’’RE SITTING IN RIGHT NOW LARGELY WAS PUT TOGETHER BY HUMANS.

THIS BUILDING WAS BUILT BY HUMANS.

EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS LIMITED BY HOW FEW HUMANS THERE ARE AND HOW SLOW WE WORK AND HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO COORDINATE.

AND HAVING ROBOTS, LIKE ROSIE THE ROBOT FROM THE JETSONS, I THINK COULD REALLY DRAMATICALLY ACCELERATE THE PACE OF HUMAN PROGRESS.

AMY: SO, YOU SAY IT TOOK A LOT OF HUMANS TO BUILD THIS ROOM, TO BUILD THE LIGHTS AND THE CAMERAS THAT WE'’’RE USING.

A LOT OF HUMANS THINK THAT'’’S A GOOD THING.

AND YOU WANT ROBOTS TO TAKE AWAY MY JOB?

SCOTT: YES.

IT IS TRUE.

THERE IS A MUCH BIGGER CONVERSATION THAT NEEDS TO BE HAD AROUND, WHAT DOES -- WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF WORK AND HOW DOES IT LOOK?

THE THING THAT GIVES ME COMFORT, AND MAYBE THIS IS WRONG, BUT THE THING THAT GIVES ME COMFORT ABOUT THIS IS THAT WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THE LAST 3,000 YEARS OF HUMAN HISTORY, IT'’’S A STORY OF PEOPLE MAKING CONTRAPTIONS THAT TAKE A TASK THAT USED TO TAKE 5 PEOPLE A DAY TO DO AND TURN IT INTO A TASK THAT TAKES ONE PERSON A COUPLE OF HOURS TO DO, LIKE THE PRINTING PRESS OR THE WHEEL.

ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE JUST CONTRAPTIONS THAT HELP US DO MORE WORK FASTER.

AND THE RESULT OF THOSE 3,000 YEARS IS WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE NOW THAN WE'’’VE EVER HAD WITH A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE THAN WE'’’VE EVER HAD, AND THERE ARE MORE DIFFERENT JOBS THAN THERE HAVE EVER BEEN.

I THINK OF THE EXAMPLE OF THE ATM MACHINE.

ARE YOU GUYS FAMILIAR WITH THIS ONE?

AMY: SURE.

REPLACED BANK TELLERS.

SCOTT: SO, IT DIDN'’’T, ACTUALLY.

THERE IS WAY MORE BANK TELLERS NOW THAN THERE HAVE EVER BEEN.

AMY: AH, OK.

I STAND CORRECTED.

SCOTT: YEAH.

SO EVERYONE THOUGHT THE ATM MACHINE WAS GONNA DESTROY THE BANK TELLING INDUSTRY.

AND WHAT IT ACTUALLY DID WAS IT TOOK THE UNPROFITABLE PART OF BANKING, DEALING WITH DEPOSITS AND WITHDRAWALS, AND GAVE IT TO MACHINES.

AND THEN THE PROFITABLE PART OF BANKING, SELLING HOME LOANS, MORTGAGES, AND CREDIT CARDS, ALL WAS DONE BY HUMANS.

AND SO NOW THERE ARE ACTUALLY MORE BANK TELLERS THAN THERE HAVE EVER BEEN BECAUSE -- AND THERE ARE MORE BANK BRANCHES THAN THERE HAVE EVER BECAUSE IT'’’S MUCH MORE PROFITABLE TO RUN ONE.

SO, IT'’’S UNPREDICTABLE.

I DON'’’T KNOW WHAT'’’S GONNA HAPPEN, AND IT'’’S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO WATCH REALLY, REALLY CLOSELY.

AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN FIND A WAY FORWARD TOGETHER.

BUT I THINK THE STRICT PESSIMIST CASE STRIKES ME AS PERHAPS NOT AS NUANCED AS IT SHOULD BE.

MICHAEL: HOW DO YOU HELP PEOPLE WHO CAN'’’T MAKE THIS TRANSITION?

I MEAN, THIS IS RADICALLY DISRUPTIVE NEW TECHNOLOGIES THAT REQUIRE KNOWLEDGE IN ORDER TO MASTER.

HOW DO YOU THINK WE HELP PEOPLE THAT CAN'’’T MAKE THE TRANSITION?

SCOTT: SO, I THINK THAT UNDERLYING THAT QUESTION IS THE ASSUMPTION THAT SUDDENLY, THERE WON'’’T BE ANY WORK OTHER THAN BUILDING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS AND RUNNING SOFTWARE OR SOMETHING, AND I THINK THAT'’’S REALLY WRONG.

LIKE, I THINK THERE'’’S SO MUCH WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE THAT ROBOTS IN ANY NEAR-TERM WAY ARE NOT GONNA BE CAPABLE OF DOING.

LIKE, JUST THE CONVERSATION ABOUT BUILDING THIS BUILDING, THIS BUILDING IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER BUILDING.

AND TO HAVE ROBOTS THAT CAN MANAGE THE TERRAIN AND ALL THOSE THINGS -- AMY: HOLD ON.

LET ME INTERRUPT YOU THERE.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT THERE ISN'’’T ECONOMIC DISLOCATION, ECONOMIC DISRUPTION TO PEOPLE WHO SAY, I'’’M IN MY MID-40'’’S, NEARING THE END OF MY CAREER, AND MY JOB JUST DISAPPEARED.

I'’’M NOT GONNA BE GOING TO, SAY, MEDICAL ADMINISTRATION SCHOOL TO LEARN SOMETHING COMPLETELY BRAND NEW.

I DON'’’T HAVE THOSE ABILITIES AND EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.

SCOTT: YEAH.

AMY: ARE YOU SAYING THAT'’’S JUST NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT?

SCOTT: THE THING I WANT TO EMPHASIZE IS AI IS NOT A CURE-ALL AND SUDDENLY THERE'’’S NOTHING FOR HUMANS TO DO ANYMORE.

IT'’’S MUCH MORE INCREMENTAL THAN THAT, AND IT'’’S MUCH MORE NARROW THAN THAT.

I THINK HUMANS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT AND WILL GET MORE IMPORTANT OVER TIME.

MICHAEL: DO YOU THINK THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES WILL BENEFIT THE LEASE OR BE BROUGHT FLEET -- OR THEY'’’RE GONNA BE BROADLY SHARED, THE BENEFITS BROADLY SHARED?

SCOTT: I MEAN, IF I HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, THEY'’’RE GONNA BE BROADLY SHARED.

AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WHO ARE WORKING ON THESE TECHNOLOGIES HAVE VERY STRONG STANDS ON DISSEMINATING THE BENEFITS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE.

EVERYTHING TO DO IS DIETARY THING WE DO IS TRYING TO CREATE A SOCIETY MUCH MORE THAN JUST -- EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS TO TRY AND CREATE A SOCIETY WHERE ALL HUMANITY IS THRIVING, MUCH MORE THAN WE'’’RE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OR TO OPTIMIZE ON SOME LONG-TERM SHARE PRICE.

I THINK THE TWO ARE ACTUALLY CORRELATED.

I THINK THAT CREATING A THRIVING CIVILIZATION HAS ECONOMIC VALUE THAT YOU CAN THEN CAPTURE AND BUILD A GREAT BUSINESS AROUND.

BUT I THINK SETTING OUR PRINCIPLES FIRST AS THIS COMPANY AND THIS TECHNOLOGY IS HERE TO BE IN SERVICE OF HUMANITY IS, I THINK, A REALLY IMPORTANT LENS TO BE WEARING WHILE YOU'’’RE BUILDING IT.

MICHAEL: DO YOU THINK THERE'’’S EVENTUALLY THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO THAT WE SHOULDN'’’T DO?

SCOTT: OH, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE ARE ALREADY.

MICHAEL: AND HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT CHOICE?

HOW DO YOU BALANCE IT?

SCOTT: THIS IS AN EASY ONE.

SO, THE THING THAT WE CAN DO AND WE SHOULDN'’’T DO IS BUILD AUTONOMOUS WEAPONS.

AUTONOMOUS WEAPONS ARE THE WORST IDEA I'’’VE HEARD IN A LONG TIME.

BECAUSE THE PROBLEM WITH AN AUTONOMOUS WEAPON -- AMY: YOU WOULDN'’’T WANT A NUCLEAR-EQUIPPED DRONE TO FLY AROUND AND MAKE THE DECISION OF WHERE TO DROP IT ON ITS OWN.

SCOTT: I WOULDN'’’T ALLOW A HANDGUN-EQUIPPED OR BOW AND ARROW-EQUIPPED DRONE TO FLY AROUND.

THE REASON IS, IS THAT YOUR ARMY BECOMES SOMEONE ELSE'’’S ARMY IF THAT SOMEONE ELSE FINDS A BUG IN YOUR SOFTWARE SOMEWHERE.

AND IF WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SOFTWARE, IT'’’S THAT YOU CAN'’’T WRITE SOFTWARE WITHOUT HAVING SOME BUGS IN IT.

MICHAEL: YOU HAVE TO PLAN FOR VULNERABILITY, ESSENTIALLY, IN THESE CASES, RIGHT?

SCOTT: AND YOU CAN'’’T.

YOU CAN'’’T PLAN FOR VULNERABILITY.

SO, SOMEONE IS GOING TO FIND A WAY TO HACK INTO THE DRONES AND USE THOSE DRONES TO KILL PEOPLE WHO ARE PROBABLY NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG.

MICHAEL: DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE A GOAL FOR GOVERNMENT IN REGULATING AI?

AMY: AGI SPECIFICALLY AND HOW IT DEVELOPS.

SCOTT: ABSOLUTELY.

EVERY TECHNOLOGY CAN BE USED FOR GOOD PURPOSES OR BAD PURPOSES.

YOU KNOW, FIRE, YOU CAN COOK FOOD OR YOU CAN GET BURNED.

AND SO, I THINK IT'’’S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE GOOD STANDARDS AND GOOD AGREEMENTS AROUND ABUSES OF TECHNOLOGY THAT ARE FOR HUMANITY'’’S BENEFIT.

LIKE THE AUTONOMOUS WEAPONS IS A GREAT ONE.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE LAWS AGAINST AUTONOMOUS WEAPONS.

AMY: WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE, TO DO THIS AT ALL BECAUSE YOU ARE WATCHING THE JETSONS AS A KID?

SCOTT: I DON'’’T THINK SO.

WHEN I WAS 20, I WAS TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW I WANTED TO SPEND MY LIFE.

THE ONE THAT EDUCATION WAS ONE OF THEM BUT WAS TOTALLY MORE WAS AI.

NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME TO WORK ON AI.

YOU CAN BUILD SOME SYSTEMS WITH IT.

IT CAN HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE.

TO PRECIPITATE A CHANGE IN SOCIETY THAT IS BENEFICIAL ON THE SCALE OF THE AUTOMOBILE OR THE PRINTING PRESS OR THE INTERNET OR CELL PHONES, THINGS THAT EVERYONE STARTS USING, AND IT MAKES THEIR LIFE BETTER IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS, AND IT JUST BECOMES A FORGETTABLE PART OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE ALL LIVE INSIDE.

AND THEN IF YOU TAKE IT AWAY, YOU'’’RE LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, HOW DID I GET AROUND WITHOUT A CAR, OR A PHONE, OR THE ACCESS TO ALL THE WORLD'’’S KNOWLEDGE AT MY FINGERTIPS?

MICHAEL: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US WITH A HOPEFUL GLANCE OF THE FUTURE.

AMY: I AM A LITTLE LESS SCARED NOW.

SCOTT: GREAT TO TALK TO YOU.

MICHAEL: THAT IS IT FOR "““IN PRINCIPLE."

MANY THANKS TO PBS STATION KERA ANDY GEORGE W. BUSH PRESIDENTIAL CENTER FOR HOSTING US IN DALLAS.

AMY: IN A WORLD WHERE INFORMATION IS ALWAYS AT YOUR FINGERTIPS, THOUGH FORGET TO CHECK OUT MORE "““IN PRINCIPLE" ONLINE OR FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

UNTIL THEN, I'’’M AMY HOLMES.

MICHAEL: I AM MICHAEL GERSON.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

♪ CONTRIBUTIONS