♪♪ >> THE GOVERNOR'S 2022 AGENDA.

>> THE GOVERNOR'S 2022 AGENDA.

A CONTROVERSIAL SCHOOL CURRICULUM BILL.

PLUS, TODD ROKITA DOESN'T BELIEVE NUMBERS AND MORE ON INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING JANUARY 7, 2022.

>> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

>> THIS WEEK, GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB WILL PUSH LAWMAKERS TO REDUCE THE TAX BURDEN ON INDIANA BUSINESSES IN THE UPCOMING LEGISLATIVE SESSION AS PART OF HIS MODEST 2022 AGENDA.

AND HE'S OPEN TO A DISCUSSION ON OTHER TAX CUTS BUT NOT EAGER TO DO SO THIS YEAR.

>> INDIANA'S BUSINESS PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX IS A LEVY ON BUSINESS EQUIPMENT.

HOLCOMB'S PROPOSAL WOULD ESSENTIALLY ELIMINATE A MINIMUM LEVEL THAT ALL BUSINESSES PAY FOR THAT TAX ON NEW EQUIPMENT.

HE SAYS IT WILL HELP INDIANA BETTER COMPETE FOR COMPANIES TO MOVE TO THE STATE.

REDUCING THAT TAX WILL COST LOCAL GOVERNMENTS MILLIONS IN REVENUE.

HOLCOMB SAYS THE STATE SHOULD ENSURE THOSE GOVERNMENTS DON'T LOSE OUT.

>> GOV.

ERIC HOLCOMB: OURS IS ON NEW EQUIPMENT, SO IT WOULDN'T BE REALIZED FOR YEARS TO COME AND IT WOULD GIVE US TIME TO ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT PRICE TAG IS.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO USING THE STATE'S FOUR-BILLION-DOLLAR SURPLUS ON ANYTHING ELSE THIS YEAR, HOLCOMB IS A NO.

>> GOV.

ERIC HOLCOMB: I'M TRYING TO BE DISCIPLINED ABOUT CONTROLLING MY OWN APPETITE TO OPEN UP THE BUDGET IN A NON-BUDGET YEAR.

>> HOLCOMB SAYS HE'S LOOKING FORWARD TO MAJOR SPENDING IN 2023, INCLUDING SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS IN PUBLIC HEALTH.

>> IS THE AGENDA A BOLD ONE.

THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY.

REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN.

JON SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

AND NIKI KELLY, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE REPORTER BRANDON SMITH.

MIKE O'BRIEN, A HOLCOMB ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL DESCRIBED THIS YEAR'S AGENDA AS “TRANSITIONAL” AFTER LAST YEAR'S MAJOR SPENDING.

IS THAT ENOUGH FOR WHAT THE STATE NEEDS RIGHT NOW?

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED LAST SESSION, THE EXTRA $2 BILLION IN K-12 EDUCATION WHERE THEY TRIED TO GET A LOT OF THIS MONEY OUT THE DOOR IN RECORD TAX REVENUE AND THE READI GRANTS THAT CAME OUT OF LAST SESSION, WE SAW COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THE STATE, 17 GROUPS OF PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES, AND NON-PROFITS COME TOGETHER, TO PUT TOGETHER PROPOSALS THAT WERE ALL FUNDED BECAUSE OF THE EXCESS TAX REVENUE WE'RE EXPERIENCING IN INDIANA.

NOW TRANSITION TO HOW DO WE MAKE SURE IN THE LEAD-UP WE TALKED ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S ATTENTION ON SMALL BUSINESS, ALLOWING THEM TO DEPRECIATE THOSE ASSETS, TAX ON THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY, WHICH HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS ONE OF THE WORST ANTI-BUSINESS TAXES WE HAVE IN THE STATE, JUST NEVER DEALT WITH IN PART BECAUSE OF THE IMPACT ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE 900,000 HOOSIERS THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE AUTOMATIC TAXPAYER REFUND TRIGGERED GUY THE REVENUES THEY'RE HELPING SUPPORT.

SHORT SESSIONS IN MANY WAYS ARE ALWAYS TRANSITIONAL, AND DO TEE UP FOR THE NEXT BUDGET SESSION.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR PARTICULARLY ON THE TAX PIECE IS TRYING TO FIND SOME COMMON GROUND BETWEEN WHERE THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE RIGHT NOW AND THE SENATE REPUBLICANS.

THE SENATE REPUBLICANS WANT TO WAIT AND THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS WANT TO CUT INCOME TAXES, COMPREHENSIVE TAX REFORM.

THAT'S WHERE THAT CONVERSATION SHOULD BE WHEN YOU'RE FACED WITH BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF EXCESS REVENUE THAT YOU DIDN'T ANTICIPATE.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS TRYING TO SPLIT IT, THE IMPACT OF THAT ELIMINATION OF THE DEPRECIATION RATE ON SMALL BUSINESSES IS VERY TRANSITIONAL, TAKES A LONG TIME TO REALIZE THAT ALL THE WAY DOWN JUST BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF IT.

AND TRYING TO FIND SOME COMMON GROUND WHERE WE'RE BEING SOMEWHAT CONSERVATIVE WITH THESE TAX REVENUES.

DON'T PUT OURSELF IN A BAD SITUATION OR WALK OFF A FISCAL CLIFF.

I THINK IT HITS THE RIGHT MARK.

>> ANN DeLANEY, GIVEN EVERYTHING HAPPENED LAST YEAR, AND WHAT HE WANTS TO DO POTENTIALLY NEXT YEAR?

>> WHEN YOU SAY THAT THIS AGENDA IS MODEST, I THINK YOU'RE BEING WAY TOO KIND.

WHAT'S AMAZING TO ME ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS IS THEY ARE SO DEVOID OF WHAT WE NEED.

WE DON'T HAVE PRESCHOOL, WE DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE CHILDCARE, WE'RE STILL NOT FUNDING EDUCATION PROPERLY.

HIGHER EDUCATION IS OUT OF THE REACH OF A LOT OF PEOPLE.

ON AND ON.

AND THIS MONEY WAS DEVISED BY PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO SHORE UP THE BUDGETS OF STATES SO THAT THEY COULD HELP PEOPLE THAT WERE AFFECTED BY THE PANDEMIC.

INSTEAD THE REPUBLICANS TREAT IT AS IF IT IS A BANK.

THEY DON'T WANT TO GO OFF A FISCAL CLIFF BY SPENDING THE MONEY THAT MAY NOT BE THERE NEXT YEAR, BUT THEY'RE WILLING TO CUT TAXES ON THE MONEY THAT MAY NOT BE THERE NEXT YEAR.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT THEY EVER THINK TO DO.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD THINK THAT WITH SUPERMAJORITIES, AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THE BANK THAT HE WOULD BE BOLD ENOUGH TO SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT COULD REALLY HAVE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE STATE OF INDIANA.

OKAY.

A REALLY SIGNIFICANT STATE IMPACT THAT WOULD HELP PEOPLE.

INSTEAD WE TALK ABOUT THIS NONSENSE.

YOU WANT TO CUT TAXES, WE OUGHT TO HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT CUTTING TAXES, THE MOST REGRESSIVE OF ALL TAXES IS NOT THE INCOME TAX, ALTHOUGH THAT IS REGRESSIVE.

IT IS THE SALES TAX, AND NOBODY IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT CUTTING THE INDIVIDUALLY PAID SALES TAX.

THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU NEED TO DEBATE ABOUT IN THE LONG SESSION, NOT THIS KIND OF THING WHERE YOU USE UP MONEY.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS USE UP MONEY SO THEY CAN PUT IT ASIDE SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO INVEST IN THE FUTURE AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO INVEST IN HOOSIERS BECAUSE THEY REALLY DON'T SEEMS TO ME HAVE MUCH FAITH IN THE STATE OR ITS PEOPLE.

THEY DON'T THINK THE NEXT GENERATION NEEDS TO BE EDUCATED IN A SUBURB MANNER, THEY DON'T THINK OUR INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS ATTENTION, THEY DON'T THINK WE NEED MORE COLLEGE GRADUATES, THEY DON'T THINK WE NEED PRESCHOOL.

AND THEY'RE NOT PREPARED TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF THOSE -- >> AND LITERALLY DONE ALL OF THAT.

EVERY SINGLE THING YOU JUST -- >> THEY HAVE NOT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT.

>> EVERY SINGLE THING, THEY EVEN HAVE A PROPOSAL TO CUT THE SALES TAX.

>> THEY HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THOSE, AND WON'T ADDRESS THOSE, BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN IT.

THEY THINK THEY NEED TO SHRINK THE BEAST.

AND THAT IS TO CUT TAXES.

WHEN THE NEXT DOWN TURN COMES, OR WHEN WE NEED SOMETHING DONE, SHOULD WE RAISE TAXES?

OH, NO, NAY, NEVER.

WE NEVER RAISE TAXES.

BUT WE CAN CUT THEM WITHOUT ANY -- WITHOUT REALLY KNOWING WHAT THE IMPACT OF THE TAX CUT IS GOING TO BE.

>> NIKI KELLY.

>> IT'S WAY -- >> NIKI KELLY, WE CAN -- >> I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A FILIBUSTER RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, I THOUGHT I RESPONDED TO MIKE'S.

>> NIKI, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD CALL THIS SESSION PARTICULARLY BOLD.

I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY APPLY THAT TO WHAT HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE PROPOSING, YES?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

THEY'RE PROPOSING BILLION DOLLARS IN TAX CUTS BY 2025, EVEN MORE THAN WOULD ALLOW, THEY COULD PHASE SOME IN.

PHASING A TAX IN IS CUTTING IT.

ONCE THEY PUT IT IN STATUTE, THAT WOULD BE AN INCREASE EVEN THOUGH IT HADN'T ACTUALLY BEEN REALIZED YET.

THERE IS A LOT OF ROOM BETWEEN A BILLION DOLLAR TAX CUT AND WAITING UNTIL 2023.

SO I'M SURE WE'RE GOING TO FIND SOMETHING THERE IN THE MIDDLE.

THE HOUSE AND SENATE ARE BEING PRETTY, AT LEAST BOLD, THEY'RE TAKING A STAND, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

GOVERNOR HOLCOMB IS DOING A FENCE SITTING ON THE WHOLE TAX ISSUE RIGHT NOW.

>> WE'LL TALK EVEN MORE OBVIOUSLY ABOUT THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN TAX PACKAGE AS IT COMES TO COMMITTEE AND THE FLOOR LATER IN SESSION.

JON SCHWANTES, TO CLOSE OUT THIS TOPIC, IS THIS FOR THE MOST PART WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT IN TERMS OF GOVERNOR HOLCOMB'S AGENDA?

>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT I WOULD EXPECT.

BECAUSE IT REALLY ISN'T A DEPARTURE FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN SINCE HE FIRST ASCENDED TO THE GOVERNOR OFFICE.

I DON'T MEAN THAT IN ANY DISPARAGING WAY.

HIS STRATEGY, HIS PHILOSOPHY, FROM DAY ONE, HAS BEEN TO FOCUS ON WHAT HE WOULD CONSIDER GOOD GOVERNMENT ISSUES.

IF YOU LOOK AT PAST AGENDAS, IT WAS OFTENTIMES DEALING WITH THINGS ABOUT BRINGING THE STATE'S COMPUTER SYSTEM, AND THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE INTO THE 21st CENTURY, OR DEALING WITH INFRASTRUCTURE, AND DEALING WITH BROADBAND.

THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WOULD SHORE UP INDIANA AS THE KIND OF PLACE WHERE BUSINESSES WANT TO FUNCTION AND HIRE IN THE FUTURE AND PRODUCE PRODUCTS, AND GROW.

AND I THINK HE'S AVOIDED VERY CAREFULLY, AND I'M SURE NOT BY ACCIDENT, SOME OF THE SO-CALLED RED MEAT ISSUES THAT SEEM TO BE SO POPULAR WITH A LOT OF OTHER CHIEF EXECUTIVES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND CERTAINLY WITH MANY LAWMAKERS.

SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE GETTING ANY BAIT AND SWITCH HERE.

I THINK THAT ERIC HOLCOMB HAS BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENT FROM DAY ONE THAT HE SEES HIS JOB AS DELIVERING TO THE STATE OF INDIANA THE BEST STATE GOVERNMENT IT CAN.

AND IMPROVING THE OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE.

AND KEEP IN MIND WE'VE COME A LONG WAY AS A STATE SINCE THOSE BY GONE DAYS WHEN MOST WORK, NOT JUST BUDGET WORK, EVERYTHING ESSENTIALLY WAS DONE DURING ODD NUMBERED YEARS BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THERE WAS.

THE SHORT SESSIONS WERE INSTITUTED TO DEAL WITH EMERGENCIES.

AND FOR YEARS LAWMAKERS WERE LOATHE TO DO ANYTHING -- THE QUICKER WE CAN BE DONE AND NOT ADD TO THE STATE CODE BOOK, THE BETTER OFF WE ARE.

THAT'S CLEARLY GIVEN WAY TO SHORT SESSIONS BEING MAYBE SHORTER ON THE CALENDAR, BUT NO SHORTER IN TERMS OF THE VOLUME OF LEGISLATION THAT IS ENACTED OR THE ISSUES THAT ARE TACKLED.

ALL RIGHT.

>> INDIANA LAWMAKERS HEARD HOURS OF TESTIMONY WEDNESDAY ON LEGISLATION ABOUT CURRICULUM AND CLASSROOM TRANSPARENCY FOR SCHOOLS.

INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING'S JEANIE LINDSAY EXPLAINS, SUPPORTERS SAY IT AIMS TO REDUCE DIVISION, BUT CRITICS SAY IT COULD HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON HOW TEACHERS TALK ABOUT RACE AND OTHER BIG TOPICS.

>> SENATE BILL 167 WOULD CREATE COMMITTEES FOR PARENTS AND TEACHERS TO REVIEW SCHOOL CURRICULUM AND CONTENT.

IT ALSO WOULD PROHIBIT SCHOOLS FROM INCLUDING WHAT SUPPORTERS CALL "DIVISIVE" CONCEPTS IN CLASSROOMS, TEACHER PREPARATION PROGRAMS, OR TRAINING, AND REQUIRE THEM TO POST DETAILS ABOUT LESSON PLANS ONLINE.

>> SENATOR SCOTT BALDWIN AUTHORED THE BILL, AND SAYS THE INTENT IS TO PREVENT TEACHERS FROM TELLING STUDENTS HOW TO FEEL ABOUT CERTAIN ISSUES.

>> SEN. SCOTT BALDWIN (R-NOBLESVILLE): THEY NEED TO BE POSITION NEUTRAL, NOT INFLUENCE THAT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

THE EDUCATION SYSTEM SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT THAT INFLUENCE OR THAT DIVISION.

>> SUPPORTERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW SOME TEACHERS APPROACH CONVERSATIONS ON TOPICS LIKE ANTI-RACISM AND EQUITY.

BUT MANY WHO OPPOSE THE BILL SAY IT COULD LIMIT CHILDREN'S ACCESS TO A WELL-ROUNDED EDUCATION.

>> ANN DELANEY, WHAT'S WRONG WITH ENSURING TEACHERS AREN'T TELLING STUDENTS HOW TO FEEL ABOUT AN ISSUE?

>> I THINK IT ASSUMES THAT THERE ARE NO MORAL ABSOLUTES, FOR ONE THING.

I MEAN, HOW DO YOU TELL CHILDREN ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THE HOLOCAUST, OR ABOUT SLAVERY, AND THEN BE NEUTRAL ABOUT IT?

IT IS ANOTHER PART OF THE CULTURE WARS WHERE THEY'RE CREATING REPUBLICANS ARE CREATING AN ISSUE THAT IS DIVISIVE AND EQUAL JUST SO THEY CAN STIR UP -- THE IDEA YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE COMMITTEES OPERATING IN EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT.

EVERY PARENT NOW CAN OPEN UP EVERY TEXTBOOK THE CHILD HAS AND READ IT IF THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

THE REMEDY FOR THIS, UNDER THIS BILL IS TO TAKE THE STUDENT OUT OF THE CLASSROOM.

WHILE THIS IS BEING TAUGHT.

OKAY.

WELL MAYBE LITTLE JOHNNY FIND -- PROGRESSIONS SUDDENLY DISCONCERTING.

SO YOU TAKE THEM OUT OF MATH.

YOU TAKE THEM OUT OF HISTORY.

WE ALL KNOW THAT IF YOU DON'T KNOW HISTORY YOU'RE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, THEY ARE PART OF OUR PAST, IF WE'RE EVER GOING TO IMPROVE OUR COUNTRY AND OUR QUALITY OF LIFE, AND THERE ARE ABSOLUTES.

AND CERTAINLY THE ONES I MENTIONED, AND EVEN JANUARY 6, AND 9/11 ARE ABSOLUTES, AND THERE IS NO REASONABLE PERSON WOULD ARGUE THAT ANY OF THOSE EVENTS WERE POSITIVE.

YOU CAN'T GIVE A BALANCE FOR WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, A BALANCED APPROACH TO SAY, WELL, SLAVERY WAS GOOD BECAUSE, OR THE HOLOCAUST WAS GOOD BECAUSE THE NAZIS MADE THE TRAINS RUN ON TIME OR WHATEVER OTHER RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT YOU WOULD HEAR.

I THINK THIS HAS A DEFINITE CHILLING EFFECT, KIND OF LIKE 1984 WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT YOU WANT YOUR CHILD TO KNOW, AND WHAT THAT DOES FOR THAT CHILD WHEN THEY'RE APPLYING TO PLACES OUTSIDE THE STATE OF INDIANA, OR TAKING TESTS ABOUT APPLYING TO PLACES IN COLLEGES, AND ALL, IS INCREDIBLY NOT ONLY DIVISIVE, BUT INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS FOR THE CHILD'S FUTURE.

I THINK THEY SHOULD JUST STAY OUT OF THE CULTURE WARS, WHETHER IT IS PARTISAN ELECTION OF SCHOOL BOARDS OR DECIDING WHAT THE CURRICULUM SHOULD BE, IT IS JUST DIVISIVE ON THE REPUBLICAN PART AND DESIGNED TO CAUSE PROBLEM.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, SCOTT BALDWIN, THE AUTHOR OF THIS BILL FOUND HIMSELF TRIPPED UP BY THIS BILL THIS WEEK.

AT THE COMMITTEE HEARING HE WAS ASKED BY A HISTORY TEACHER SHOULD HE BE POSITION NEUTRAL ON THINGS LIKE FASCISM AND NAZIISM, AND BALDWIN SAID, YES, HE THEN HAD TO WALK BACK WHAT HE SAID TO REPORTERS AFTER HE WAS ASKED ABOUT IT.

BUT ISN'T THAT EXACTLY THE SORT OF PROBLEM WHERE YOU ACCIDENTALLY OR NOT SAY ONE THING AND THEN HAVE TO WALK IT BACK.

THAT THIS CREATES IN OUR CLASSROOMS?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, HE GETS TRIPPED UP BY WHAT HE'S TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, IT'S REALLY HARD.

AND TRYING TO FIND LEGISLATIVE COMMON GROUND TO INFLUENCE, OR MAKE SURE THAT TEACHERS AREN'T INFLUENCING THE FEELINGS OF PEOPLE, OR CHILDREN, A COMPLICATED THING TO LEGISLATE.

I DO THINK IT IS WHY THEY'RE TRYING TO PUT SOME STRUCTURE AROUND MORE PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT AND COORDINATION WITH ADMINISTRATORS SO THERE IS BETTER DIALOGUE.

WE'VE SEEN PRETTY BRUTAL SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS, WHERE THERE IS LEGISLATION THAT REQUIRES SCHOOL BOARDS TO ALLOW THE PUBLIC TO SPEAK, BECAUSE WE'VE HAD SITUATIONS WHERE SCHOOL BOARDS HAVE JUST DECIDED HEY WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE A POLICY WHERE NO ONE CAN TALK BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, IT IS HARD FROM A CURRICULUM STANDPOINT, I CAN'T FIGURE OUT IN MY OWN MIND, FRANKLY, AGAIN, IT IS A REALLY HARD NEEDLE TO THREAD, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PARENT'S VIEW OF A TEACHER TEACHING A STUDENT AND GIVING THEM SOME KIND OF BIAS ON SOMETHING THAT'S BEING TAUGHT, AND HOW THAT SEPARATED FROM WHAT THE PARENT'S POSITION IS ON THE UNDERLYING ISSUE AT ALL.

WHETHER IT'S JANUARY 6, OR SOMETHING MORE BENIGN LIKE BIOLOGY, OR IF YOU'RE A FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN, OR EVOLUTION, OR THESE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU MAY JUST HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL LIKE COMPLETELY HONEST DISAGREEMENT ABOUT.

MY OWN EXPERIENCE, MY SON WAS GOING THROUGH A COURSE ON UNIGOV FROM INDIANAPOLIS BACK IN THE 70S.

HALF OF IT WAS ABOUT GOVERNMENT CONSOLIDATION AND EFFICIENCIES, AND HOW THAT ALLOWED CONSOLIDATION AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WHY INDIANAPOLIS IS THE CITY IT IS TODAY.

THE OTHER PART WAS POLITICS.

THERE WAS A WHOLE UNIT ON WHAT WAS DEFINED AS WHITE FLIGHT.

YOU READ THAT, AND YOU'RE NOT ME, I CAN GO EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCES IN GOVERNMENT REFORM AND WHAT IT DOES TO DEMOGRAPHICS, GENTRIFICATION, URBAN FLIGHT, WHAT THEY DO TO VOTING PATTERNS, AND POLITICAL OUTCOMES.

I CAN DO THAT.

I CAN'T TEACH THEM MATH, BUT I CAN TEACH HIM THAT.

BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THE PARENT NEXT DOOR MIGHT LOOK AT THAT GO WAIT A MINUTE, WHY IS THE SCHOOL TEACHING MY KID ABOUT WHITE FLIGHT AND GET UPSET ABOUT THAT.

IT IS A COMPLICATED THING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.

>> MIKE, YOU HAVE TO TEACH THEM ABOUT WHITE FLIGHT BECAUSE IT HAPPENED.

>> RIGHT.

I WASN'T SAYING IT WASN'T LEGITIMATE.

>> WE WILL -- THERE IS A LOT TO THIS BILL AND OTHERS LIKE IT.

WE WILL TALK MORE IN FUTURE SHOWS.

TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNSCIENTIFIC, ONLINE POLL QUESTION.

THIS WEEK'S QUESTION: WILL STATE LAWMAKERS' EFFORTS TO ADDRESS SCHOOL CURRICULUM HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON HOW TEACHERS TALK ABOUT RACE AND OTHER BIG TOPICS?

A, YES, OR B, NO.

THE QUESTION WE ASKED A FEW WEEKS AGO.

SHOULD STATE LAWMAKERS FOCUS BIG REVENUE INCREASES ON CUTTING TAXES OR SPENDING ON GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS?

JUST 30% OF YOU SAY THEY SHOULD CUT TAXES.

70% SAY IT'S TIME TO SPEND ON PROGRAMS.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB RESPONDED RECENTLY TO ATTORNEY GENERAL TODD ROKITA'S STATEMENTS THAT HE DOESN'T TRUST THE STATE'S COVID-19 DATA.

INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING'S LAUREN CHAPMAN REPORTS THE GOVERNOR CALLED THE COMMENTS DEMORALIZING.

>> IN AN INTERVIEW WITH WSBT IN SOUTH BEND ON VACCINE MANDATE LAWSUITS, ROKITA SAID HE “DOESN'T BELIEVE ANY NUMBERS ANY MORE” AND SAID THE DATA HAS BEEN “POLITICIZED FROM DAY ONE.” HOLCOMB RESPONDED TO THOSE COMMENTS.

>> GOV.

ERIC HOLCOMB: I WILL SAY THAT I WAS STUNNED AND SOMEWHAT BLINDSIDED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WHEN HE SAID HE DIDN'T TRUST ANY INFORMATION.

BECAUSE THAT, TO ME, HIT HOME.

>> HOLCOMB SAYS ROKITA HAS NOT REACHED OUT TO HIM, AND HE HAD NOT REACHED OUT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> GOV.

ERIC HOLCOMB: AND IT'S QUITE SERIOUS WHEN YOU ACCUSE OR INSINUATE ANYONE OF INFLATING NUMBERS.

IN MY BOOK, THAT'S CALLED FRAUD.

>> HOLCOMB SAID IF THERE IS A “SHRED OF EVIDENCE” ROKITA SHOULD TAKE THAT TO THE INSPECTOR GENERAL.

>> NIKI KELLY, WHAT HAS ROKITA THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ISSUED TWO OR THREE STATEMENTS SINCE HIS ORIGINAL COMMENTS, WHAT HAS HE BEEN SAYING IN RESPONSE TO THAT AND TO GOVERNOR HOLCOMB?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, ON THE DAY THE GOVERNOR MADE THOSE COMMENTS, HE DID A COUPLE TWEETS, AND WAS SORT OF LIKE HE WAS TRYING TO REFINE IT, BUT IT WAS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING.

LIKE, HE DIDN'T REALLY CHANGE.

AND THEN HE MORE RECENTLY JUST YESTERDAY PUT OUT AN OP-ED FOR VARIOUS NEWSPAPERS ON SORT OF WHY PEOPLE AREN'T TRUSTING THINGS.

HE DOES GIVE ONE OR TWO EXAMPLES, VERY ISOLATED INCIDENTS OF WHERE SOMETHING WAS COUNTED WRONG, A DEATH AND SHOULDN'T.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS SAYING THIS SYSTEM WHICH IS FULLY HUMAN, DOESN'T HAVE AN OCCASIONAL ERROR.

BUT TO GO FROM OKAY THERE ARE OCCASIONAL ERRORS TO NOT BELIEVING ANYTHING, IS WHAT HE'S DONE.

IT KIND OF REMIND ME OF THE WHOLE VOTER INTEGRITY AND THE ELECTION THING, WHICH IS SURE YOU CAN FIND AN OCCASIONAL VOTER FRAUD ISSUE, BUT DOES THAT INVALIDATE THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF VOTING?

THAT'S WHAT I SEE AS KIND OF GOING ON JUST TO PUT IT IN A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

>> ANN DeLANEY, WHAT IS THE POINT OF WHAT TODD ROKITA KEEPS SAYING OVER AND OVER AGAIN?

>> THE POINT IS HE WANTS TO MAKE HIMSELF THE DONALD TRUMP OF INDIANA.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TO CALL HIM OUT.

HE'S THE LEADING LAWYER FOR THE STATE OF INDIANA, AND HE'S ACCUSING HIS SITTING GOVERNOR OF COMMITTING A FRAUD.

AND HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE OF IT.

NO EVIDENCE.

NIKI IS RIGHT, OCCASIONALLY YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A MISTAKE.

SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET COUNTED TWICE OR SOME OTHER SUCH THING, BUT THAT DOESN'T INVALIDATE THE VAST NUMBERS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

AND FOR HIM TO MAKE THAT ASSERTION, AND TO TRY TO, I ASSUME, ENCOURAGE PEOPLE NOT TO SOCIALLY DISTANCE, NOT TO WEAR A MASK, NOT TO GET VACCINATED, IT'S COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TO CALL HIM OUT.

AND ROKITA IS AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE TO THE STATE OF INDIANA.

THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND.

HE WANTS TO BE DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE HE WANTS TO BE GOVERNOR.

SHAME ON US IF WE ELECT HIM.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, TODD ROKITA USES THE TERM SERVANT'S HEART AN AWFUL LOT.

HE TALKS ABOUT SERVING WITH A SERVANT'S HEART.

HOW DOES ALL OF THIS THAT HE KEEPS SAYING ABOUT THESE NUMBERS, WHAT SERVICE DOES THAT DO TO THE PEOPLE OF INDIANA?

>> WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN IDEA OF SERVICE.

LOOK, I THINK -- ONE, I THINK HE'S TRUE TO SOME DEGREE.

THE DATA, OR THE ISSUE HAS BEEN POLITICIZED.

CERTAINLY.

WE SEE THAT EVERYWHERE.

GROWTH OF GOVERNMENT AND ELECTION REFORM AND SOCIAL SERVICE REFORM AND OTHER THINGS.

PEOPLE HAVE USED THIS TO BRING IDEAS THAT AREN'T NEW AT ALL TO THE FOREFRONT AND TRY TO MAKE THEM A PRIORITY AND JUSTIFY THEM FOR THAT PURPOSE.

LET'S QUESTION THE INTEGRITY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, QUESTION THE INTEGRITY OF STATE GOVERNMENT, THAT IS IN A VERY HOOSIER PRAGMATIC WAY TO ADDRESS THIS CRISIS IN THE MOST REASONABLE WAY POSSIBLE IS UNACCEPTABLE.

AND IT IS JUST RINSE AND REPEAT WITH HIM.

APPEALABLE, COMMON DENOMINATOR, AND THAT'S THE STRATEGY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> INDIANA HOUSE AND SENATE LEADERS DON'T APPEAR TO HAVE MANY PLANS IN PLACE IF THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT COVID-19 OUTBREAKS THIS SESSION.

AMID A WORSE SURGE OF THE VIRUS THAN AT ANY TIME IN 2021 - NONE OF LAST YEAR'S PRECAUTIONS ARE IN PLACE ANYMORE.

>> LAST YEAR, THE HOUSE MOVED ITS ENTIRE CHAMBER TO A DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT BUILDING, IN ORDER TO SPREAD OUT MORE.

MANY SENATE COMMITTEE HEARINGS WERE CHANGED TO KEEP PEOPLE TESTIFYING IN SEPARATE ROOMS FROM LAWMAKERS.

PLEXIGLASS DIVIDERS WENT UP ON BOTH CHAMBER FLOORS.

>> HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSTON SAYS IT'S NOW ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

>> SPEAKER TODD HUSTON (R-FISHERS): PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE THE PRECAUTIONS THEY NEED, THAT THEY FEEL ARE NECESSARY FOR THEM.

>> IF THERE IS AN OUTBREAK OF THE VIRUS AMONG LAWMAKERS OR STAFF, SENATE GOP LEADER RODRIC BRAY SAYS THEY'LL DEAL WITH IT AS IT COMES.

>> SEN. RODRIC BRAY (R-MARTINSVILLE): I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE A SPECIFIC CONTINGENCY PLAN THAT WE'LL EMPLOY BUT WE'LL TRY TO ADDRESS IT AS BEST AS WE CAN WHEN IT PRESENTS ITSELF.

>> JON SCHWANTES, WE NEVER REALLY SAW ANY SERIOUS COVID DISRUPTIONS LAST SESSION.

ARE LAWMAKERS GOING TO STAY THAT LUCKY TWO YEARS IN A ROW?

>> WELL, AS FAST-MOVING AS THE OMICRON VARIANT AND THE IMPACT IT IS HAVING, I GUESS ALL BETS ARE OFF.

I POSED SOME OF THOSE VERY SAME QUESTIONS ON THIS WEEK'S INSTALLMENT OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

>> GETTING IT IN EARLY.

>> IT DID SEEM THAT WHILE THE SPEAKER WOULD NOT ABSOLUTELY 100% UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES RULE OUT SOME SORT OF MITIGATION OR SOME SORT OF CHANGES, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT HE SEES THIS AS BUSINESS AS NORMAL THAT WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH AND WORK THROUGH THE VIRUS.

AND THIS IS ANOTHER INSTANCE WHERE YOU SEE SOME REAL DIFFERENCES, IT SEEMS TO ME, BETWEEN THE SUPERMAJORITY CAUCUS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

JUST AS WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER WITH THE TAX QUESTION.

WE GOT TO MOVE NOW OR DO WE WAIT AND SEE, IN THIS CASE, YOU SEE THE SPEAKER IN THE HOUSE SAYING WE DON'T -- WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS, AND YET YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM SAYING, PARTY, WE DON'T THINK SO, AND WE DON'T HAVE PLANS, WE'LL CALL THEM AS THEY COME.

I THINK THIS IS A THEME WE'RE SEEING ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT'S ARISEN THIS SESSION.

>> NIKI KELLY, THE CONVERSATION LAST YEAR ABOUT ALL THOSE PRECAUTIONS, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE AVERAGE HOOSIERS FEEL SAFE TO COME TO THE STATEHOUSE, TO COME TO STATE GOVERNMENT AND TESTIFY AND MAKE THEIR VOICE HEARD.

IS THERE A LEGITIMATE REASON THAT HOOSIERS SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT THAT THIS YEAR?

>> WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, IF I WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS IMMUNOCOMPROMISED, HAD ANY OF THESE CONDITIONS, I WOULD FEEL ABSOLUTELY UNCOMFORTABLE COMING IN THAT BUILDING.

JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW WE PERSONALLY ARE DOING INTERVIEWS WITH THE LEADERS OF THE LEGISLATURE.

LAST YEAR WE SAT IN DESKS APART FROM EACH OTHER, NOW WE'RE IN TINY LITTLE SCRUMS WHERE WE'RE LITERALLY ON TOP OF EACH OTHER, I'LL BE SHOCKED IF WE DON'T ALL GET IT.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY.

REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN.

JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

AND NIKI KELLY OF THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

IF YOU'D LIKE A PODCAST OF THIS PROGRAM YOU CAN FIND IT AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR STARTING MONDAY YOU CAN STREAM IT OR GET IT ON DEMAND FROM XFINITY AND ON THE WFYI APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

STAY SAFE, STAY HEALTH, AND PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, GET VACCINATED.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪♪ THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS, INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH