Presentation of Idaho Reports on Idaho Public Television is made possible through the generous support of the Laura Moore Cunningham Foundation, committed to fulfilling the Moore and Bettis family legacy of building the great state of Idaho.

By the Friends of Idaho Public Television and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

We've heard the lawmakers takes on this year's legislative session.

Now it's the governor's turn to weigh in.

This week, Governor Brad Little shares his views on what laws passed and what didn't.

I'm Melissa Davlin.

Idaho Reports starts now.

Hello and welcome to Idaho Reports.

This week, we sit down with Governor Brad Little for part one of a two part interview discussing his views on the 2023 legislative session.

But first, let's get you caught up on the week.

On Tuesday, the Idaho State Board of Education unanimously approved a resolution prohibiting four year public higher education institutions from requiring candidates to sign diversity statements.

The resolution is effective immediately.

State Board president Kurt Lebich said through a news release, quote, Hiring decisions should be made based on merit and the qualifications of the candidates who apply for positions at our institutions, unquote.

The move comes after some lawmakers criticized the written diversity pledges last session.

Full disclosure Idaho Public Television is under the state Board of Education, though Idaho Reports continues to remain editorially independent.

On Monday, a federal judge heard oral arguments in a lawsuit concerning a March 27th Attorney general opinion stating medical providers could face prosecution for providing out-of-state abortion referrals under Idaho's near-total abortion ban.

Attorney General Raul Labrador's office later withdrew the opinion and clarified the attorney general's office doesn't have the power to prosecute in county court.

Still, the plaintiff Planned Parenthood, asked the judge to block the office from such prosecutions alleging they violate the First Amendment and due process.

Watch Idaho Reports online for updates on the ruling.

Also this week, a fourth district judge ruled that community grant recipients must cooperate with an investigation from Labrador's office into whether the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare inappropriately awarded some community grants.

The 2021 legislature approved the grant program under the condition that grants go to programs serving children ages 5 to 13.

The ongoing court fight stems from questions over whether IDHW followed the law when it gave grants to recipients who also served children younger than five.

In March, a coalition of 38 grant recipients challenged Labrador's investigation.

For more, including comments on this week's ruling from Labrador.

Head to our website.

IdahoPTV.org/IdahoReports Tensions between the Department of Health and Welfare and the Idaho legislature were just one of several issues that defined the 2023 legislative session.

Earlier this week, Idaho reports was invited to interview Governor Brad Little at his home and ranch in Emmet.

In part one of our two part interview, Governor Little shared his thoughts on Medicaid.

Ongoing discussions about Idaho's abortion ban, the vetoed library bill and the property tax compromise.

Melissa Davlin: Thanks for joining us.

I wanted to start by getting your overall thoughts on the session.

Gov Little: It's over.

You know, I always reflect back on my state of the state and what we talked about in the state of the state.

And then, you know, there's always distractions and issues.

It seems like they get to be more intense at the end of the session, which is not new.

Maybe a little more than it used to.

But, you know, we get all we got done.

My education initiative, my Launch initiative, our infrastructure initiative, all of those things were done, most of them with very little deviation from what I proposed.

So I was pleased.

Melissa Davlin: We'll get into specific policies later, but I did want to ask if any of those issues that came up, especially the social issues, were a surprise to you this year.

Gov Little: It seems like there always are some of them.

They you know, they're in there are quite a few them that didn't get through also.

But that's seems to be the time we live in.

And I believe a lot of it is people through their whatever, however they get their information, see things happening in other states, and they're very concerned about it.

So they want to do something in Idaho that really doesn't address an an issue in Idaho as much as it does something from some other state.

And given the fact that there's so many people from California and Washington and Oregon moving into Idaho, you can see where that would be an issue.

Melissa Davlin: Sure.

Well, especially with people getting their news from social media and not necessarily from local outlets, I know that that plays into the conversation, too.

I wanted to ask about Medicaid.

You know, there was a lot of concern from lawmakers this year about the expanded budget, you know, the highest we've ever seen.

And we know that the Department of Health and Welfare is currently in the redetermination process to figure out who is still eligible under expansion after the COVID federal emergency ended.

We know that some will no longer qualify and have to shift to private insurance.

Some lawmakers have expressed concern about the six month timeline for that rich redetermination process, saying that it's taking too long.

Are you happy with the pace?

Gov Little: Well, I'm also concerned.

And, you know, Medicaid is has been an issue.

And, of course, we did the expansion.

And then the federal government came along and because of the emergency during COVID, said anybody that was on Medicaid would have to stay on Medicaid.

We've got by almost every measurement, one of the best exchanges, state managed exchanges, which is allows people to get insurance and various other places of any place.

And I want people that are really deserving to be on Medicaid, but I want people to get off of Medicaid and go on private insurance and employer insurance and insurance relative to their job.

And there's going to be some time frame for that determination.

Director Jeppesen tells me that he cannot train up people to ask the right questions to be in compliance with both state and federal law overnight.

So to hurry that along, which we're all we all want to do that, has some logistical challenges because of the learning curve it takes to be sensitive.

And the other problem is getting a hold of people.

Everybody used to have a landline.

Now it's through text, it█s through phone.

People don't take phone calls from numbers they don't know.

So it's much more difficult to get a hold of people than it used to be in the past.

And those are the challenges.

But we'll get there.

Melissa Davlin: We know that expansion is just one reason that the Medicaid budget is is so large.

Are you satisfied with the other steps the Department of Health and Welfare is doing to reduce those Medicaid costs?

Gov Little: We've when I hired Dave Jeppesen four and a half years ago, that was one of the conversations we had.

You know, he came from the health care industry, so he was aware of that.

And I says, I want to get I want to get the cost of Medicaid down to the taxpayers.

Everybody knows I'm an education guy.

And the two things that have been the drivers of the economy, contrary to education and contrary to tax relief, are Medicaid and corrections.

We're making good progress in corrections, but we literally have more control over corrections than we do over Medicaid.

And with the lack of control the state has, it's more difficult.

But we're still on a mission to get the cost of Medicaid down.

Melissa Davlin: When you when you talk about progress that we've made with corrections, are you talking about the recidivism rates going down over the years?

Gov Little: Well, and that we got, we have programs for people.

It takes a while.

But if if if you take an incarcerated person, you know, they're going to get out.

You know, they're going to be back on the street and you know, one thing we didn't do before was even let them have a driver's license.

Now they have a driver's license.

Now they have a pathway to a job.

Now they have a skill.

And all of those things are going to lower our recidivism rate.

Melissa Davlin: Back to the Department of Health and Welfare.

You know, Attorney General Labrador, as you know, is investigating recipients of community grants from health and welfare that have been doled out since 2021.

Were you given a heads up that this investigation was coming?

No.

Melissa Davlin: Have you had conversations with Attorney General Labrador about it?

Gov Little: Well, we yes, we talked about it.

But I you know, it was like, oh, it's okay, it's okay.

And then it's not okay.

And that's but the that investigation will play out and we we want to be compliant with the laws and with the intent.

And but it was providing programs for kids.

Melissa Davlin: You touched on this a bit, but there were a lot of concerns from lawmakers on the Joint Budget Committee, especially that these grants, some of them at least, were going out to unqualified recipients.

And for those who aren't familiar, these are grants meant to help children with learning loss between the ages of five and 13 years old.

And some of these grants went to programs that also served children younger than five, in addition to the older kids.

You touched on this, but do you share that concern?

Gov Little: Well, we always want to be compliant with whether it be fate, federal law, state law or state legislative intent.

And we were kind of signaled that given the mix of what it is, it was okay, and now in hindsight they say it's not.

We█ll, we'll let it play out and see what happens.

We we want to be compliant.

Melissa Davlin: Where are you personally on it, though?

Gov Little: Well, I think if we knew this is one time money.

And this was basically to help people that had suffered some of the negative consequences of COVID.

We wanted to have help, care for children, particularly, you know, parents that were having challenges.

We wanted to get that.

We want to continue to address the care for children.

And I want kids to be as prepared as possible when they get into kindergarten so they're reading proficiently by the end of the third grade.

Those are all goals of mine.

And but we can we can do that at age five, and, but sometimes it's hard if somebody says they're going to be five next week, to say, well, you can't go in the program at the opening day this week.

But that's one example.

Melissa Davlin: You know, we've seen tension between the attorney general's office and the Department of Health and Welfare.

But how is your relationship with the attorney general, more broadly speaking?

Gov Little: Well, of course, we're on the land board together and we see each other at other events, and we'll work our way through it.

You know, we, General Wasden was there for a long, long time.

And there was obviously a comfort level.

General Labrador has a different position and we'll work our way through it.

Melissa Davlin: I wanted to touch on abortion related issues.

Last year, after the overturn of Roe v Wade, you wrote about the importance of making sure that we're taking care of mothers and families while celebrating the ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court.

You wrote that families, churches, charities and local and state government must stand ready to lift them up and help them and their families with access to adoption services, health care, financial and food assistance, counseling and treatment and family planning.

We are being called to support women and our fellow community members in extraordinary new ways.

And I'm confident Idahoans are ready to meet this responsibility with love and compassion.

But this year, lawmakers declined to extend Medicaid coverage for postpartum mothers, and they didn't extend the maternal Mortality Review panel.

Is the state of Idaho living up to its pro-life reputation?

Gov Little: Well, we'll continue to work on those.

You know, the review panel is something that I think that we ought to continue to do.

There were some issues with the way it was being done.

Melissa Davlin: Like what?

Gov Little: Well, that's, the failure to continue with it was some objections people have.

We█ll try and address those objections going forward.

But, you know, we we all of those things I said are still true today.

It's, you know, ebbs and flows.

And we've got two or three different court rulings that are in play.

So until we understand the lay of the land, you know, the Dobbs decision changed a lot of things.

And there are other laws that have changed a lot of things.

We got to see how that plays out.

But I'm still the issue of supporting, supporting mothers and whether it's foster, adoption, fill in the blank.

Those are all very important.

Melissa Davlin: The governor's office in the past has put together task forces and committees.

I'm thinking about faith healing from Governor Otter.

Is the maternal Mortality Review panel something that you can address on an executive action level?

Gov Little: Well, I think the first thing we can do is address the concerns of the legislators that had a significant issue with it.

And that's we will we will work on that.

Melissa Davlin: We're currently waiting for a ruling from Judge Lynn Windmill on whether a doctor can face prosecution for an out-of-state referral for abortion.

As we're having this conversation on Tuesday.

Do you think that doctors should face prosecution for out-of-state abortion referrals?

Well, that's that's one of those issues that I said are in play.

Those are, it's hard to figure out which direction we're going until we know what the rules are federally, what the rules are through our our state and federal courts.

Our state court says we can do what we've, what we've done.

They ruled that Supreme Court ruled that last, I can't remember how many months ago.

So there is some unknown out there in in Roe v Wade.

And the Dobbs decision.

And we're trying to understand all the different ramifications of it.

My position is that I'm pro-life, including the life of the mother and we█re, I want to make sure that that's fulfilled.

Melissa Davlin: So on this specifically, knowing the interplay between the legislature and the courts is still ongoing and will be for some time.

Where are you specifically on out-of-state referrals for abortion?

Gov Little: Well, the I think that's going to be one of the rulings that we're going to see here real soon.

And that's being argued right now.

Melissa Davlin: Right.

But but does does citizen Brad Little have an opinion on it?

Gov Little: Well, I referrals, and I actually looked at a case this morning on a totally unrelated issue where it was referraled out of state.

That's that's guaranteed by the constitution.

That a doctor's right to make a referral because you know a good example is north Idaho.

Coeur d█Alene, you know, Kootenai Health has grown a lot, but many people in North Idaho utilize the services in Spokane hospitals.

To say you couldn█t refer there or somebody in Moscow couldn't be referred to Pullman.

Those are things that are real problematic.

Somebody in Fruitland can't go to Ontario, so I don't think we want to dwell on that.

That's the benefit of all Idahoans.

Melissa Davlin: Well, while we're on health care and legislation, in your transmittal letter for the Vulnerable Child Protection Act, which was the piece of legislation that banned gender affirming surgeries and hormone treatments for minors, you said, As policymakers, we should take great caution when we're asking the government to interfere in these health care decisions.

We already knew these gender confirmation surgeries for children weren't happening in Idaho, and most people agreed that that was that was a fine part of the legislation.

But there were already teens in Idaho who were receiving the hormone therapies, who were concerned about the continuation of their treatment and a sudden stop to that treatment.

What would you say to those families?

Gov Little: Well, I, I want to be understanding.

If they're getting that therapy, not for gender transformation, but they're getting that therapy for a different reason.

They can continue to get those.

So it's a narrow group of of of kids that is not very well defined.

There's the number of children that we're talking about.

I again, I think this is going to play out in a larger scale.

There's about 20 states that have this right now.

And I know there's going to be more probably a year from now after the federal courts have played in we're going to know more.

But that's, I, to me, the what we do in behavioral health to help these kids when they're young, either through their faith based groups, through social services and particularly through schools, I think is going to make a big difference.

Because we see so many challenges that kids today have that are different than kids even ten years ago, that we really need to concentrate on what we do in the mental health side to help these kids, given the challenges that they have today in modern society.

Melissa Davlin: You said it's a narrow group of teenagers who are currently receiving this, transgender minors, who are receiving this treatment, but they they are still here and they are in Idaho and they are receiving the treatment.

Should should they you believe they should have to stop that treatment?

Gov Little: Yes.

I you campaigned on creating in Idaho where our children will want to stay.

Melissa Davlin: But we've personally talked to families who have already looked at relocating, who have already put their houses on the market.

And I've talked to other pregnant women who have lost their OB-GYNs because of concern over prosecution, over the abortion laws.

How do you address the concerns within your party without alienating Idahoans who would otherwise want to stay?

Gov Little: Well, of course, health care is, OB-GYN is very expensive program.

Right here, about four blocks from where we're sitting in Emmett right now.

The hospital there is having challenges, and they had challenges way before the Dobbs decision.

It's really expensive, particularly for small hospitals that don't have a big volume.

And that's going to continue to be the play.

So we want to be supportive.

And matter of fact, the number one priority for us in our launch and in higher education is more people to help in the health care field.

And that's going to continue to be the case.

But in the instances of the two hospitals, though, that has been something that's happened for a long time in Idaho, because providing those services are very expensive for particularly a small hospital.

Melissa Davlin: But but the current political climate has exacerbated that exodus.

Gov Little: Fair.

Melissa Davlin: And is also, you know, we've heard from hospitals that they're having trouble recruiting new health care workers to the state as well.

So so how do you overcome that while still acknowledging that this is a priority for the Republican Party?

Gov Little: But it's always been a problem.

You know, we, it's not lost on anybody that even with all the resources we put in to try and get residents to come in to be whatever kind of a doctor, particularly in in rural Idaho, we had the least amount of doctors per capita.

I think we were the second or third to last.

And that's why we need to continue to put resources in there to recruit doctors and particularly to get our Idaho kids to go to medical school and practice here in Idaho.

Melissa Davlin: I wanted to switch gears now and talk about the firing squad legislation.

This this was a bill that you supported that you signed.

Can you talk about the reasons that you supported the firing squad?

Gov Little: Well, I signed it.

I wasn█t out leading the leading the band on it.

Capital punishment.

I'm I'm a believer in capital punishment.

I'm not excited about capital punishment.

Last year, the legislature, we proposed the legislature, basically some help so that activists couldn't stop the availability of of the right kind of lethal injection pharmaceuticals.

I believe we're still going to get there.

But as a message, we're going to say we're going to do capital punishment in Idaho.

That is not at all our preferred method, but we're not going to let a group of activists stop us from having justice here in Idaho.

Melissa Davlin: You said that this sends a message, but it could very well result in state employees having to execute a death row inmate.

And this is something you touched on in your transmittal letter.

You said you were concerned about minimizing stress on corrections personnel.

You know, and there are multiple people, as you know, involved in an execution.

I, considering your concern for their mental health, are you willing to be a witness to one of these firing squad executions, should it come to that, and go through what you're asking state employees to go through?

Gov Little: I don't believe it will come to that.

Let█s just suffice it to say that that█s because I believe I believe that we're going to find because a lot of states are in the same condition as Idaho that we're going to find the necessary compounds we need to have as, there's nothing humane about the death penalty, but have the most dignified and humane execution process we possibly can.

Melissa Davlin: But if it does come to that, are you willing to be a witness to that?

Gov Little: We█ll, we're a long way to go before we get to there.

We got a lot of things to do before that point in time.

Melissa Davlin: You know, back to some of the social issues that came up this session.

You vetoed the library bill and that veto stood.

But we know that there are already ongoing discussions about what, if anything, the legislature should do and who should be responsible for what kids are checking out, whether it's the libraries or the parents.

Have you been involved in any of those talks about what's next?

Gov Little: Yes.

Melissa Davlin: What are you hearing?

Gov Little: Well, you know, before I vetoed the bill, I talked to the sponsors of it.

And I and I put that in my transmittal letter that I was worried about the unintended cuts and the intended consequences.

We don't want pornography available to our children in libraries.

But the the case they cited was the Boise Library.

I said the Boise library's got lots of resources, lots of paid staff, lots of room for a children's only.

I know communities where they're one room and it's a volunteer in there.

Are we are we going to allow people to go in there and make money by saying this book that should be in this section was over in this section because somebody put it in the wrong section and it's available and in it and it's $2,500 per instance.

Not $25 per, $2,500 per library.

Some of these library budgets are only 60 or $70,000 for the whole year.

I'm a literacy person.

I will continue to be a literacy person.

And one of the best ways to help families and children get over their literacy hurdles is to have a good library.

And so I don't I, I am opposed to pornography being available to children, but I also want to support libraries.

And this one kind of tipped the scales the other way.

Since then, I've had conversations.

Some of the people interested is what can we do to address the concerns of the authors of the legislation?

Melissa Davlin: You know, I, I did notice that the House attempted to override the veto, and that override vote got more votes than the initial library bill itself, that there were a handful of Republicans who signed on to the override attempt who didn't support the original legislation.

The legislature also overrode your veto on the property tax bill, of course.

The first veto override in 15 years.

Is there a takeaway in there about your ongoing relationship with the legislature?

Gov Little: Well, I obviously I'm not a fan of being overridden on a veto.

I veto bills for a specific purpose.

But if you take the tax bill and you look at what I proposed in the state of the state, which was $120 million in ongoing transfer of your sales and income tax over to help with your property tax, the number was 116 or 117 plus some more money there.

I vetoed the bill.

Sat down with the Senate.

Helped them craft a bill that addressed some real fundamental problems about how we paid for roads, how we paid for public defense, the implementation of it.

The Senate overwhelmingly passed the bill, sent it over to the House, they rejected it.

And they jealously guard their constitutional right to be the source of property tax of tax legislation.

I I've been around.

This is not my first rodeo on on tax legislation.

So they shot down the Senate bill, but they had it took three bills and six appropriation bills to take care of the issues that I brought up in the bill I vetoed.

Melissa Davlin: So in a way, the legislature acknowledged your issues.

Gov Little: You said it, not me.

Melissa Davlin: Well.

with Governor Little next week, including his thoughts on education initiatives the legislature passed this year.

In the meantime, you can always find more of our coverage online at IdahoPTV.org/IdahoReports While you're there, check out this week's podcast episode.

I sat down with PolitiFact managing editor Katie Sanders to talk about the outlet's fact checking initiatives.

Katie Sanders: We have a number of partners who replicate our work at the national level on the state level.

So states like Texas, New York, Florida, North Carolina, there█s under ten or so.

Unfortunately, not in the Northwest, but I would love for that to change.

Melissa Davlin: Yet, right?

Katie Sanders: Yes.

But I think even more than politicians these days, we are fact checking claims that are online, that originated online or were inspired by pundits or politicians and then take on a new life online.

So that's a major part of what we do.

Used to be in the old days, chain emails would be our online exposure, but that's definitely picked up since 2016.

Melissa Davlin: Now it's less the chain emails and more social media and things we see on Twitter and Facebook.

Katie Sanders: Absolutely.

They explode.

They take off and we try to address them as early as possible.

But the algorithms are very, very powerful.

And fact checking takes rigor and it takes time.

Melissa Davlin: Thanks so much for watching and we'll see you next week.

Presentation of Idaho Reports on Idaho Public Television is made possible through the generous support of the Laura Moore Cunningham Foundation, committed to fulfilling the Moore and Bettis family legacy of building the great state of Idaho.

By the Friends of Idaho Public Television and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.