>>> WELCOME TO "DIALOGUE," A DISCUSSION SERIES PRODUCED BY OSU'S JOHN GLENN COLLEGE OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND WOSU PUBLIC MEDIA.

I'M WOSU NEWS CONTENT DIRECTOR MIKE THOMPSON.

OUR TOPIC, THE GREAT RESIGNATION.

WHY ARE PEOPLE REFUSING TO WORK?

WE HAVE READ, HEARD AND SEEN THE STORIES IN THE NEWS.

WE'VE SEEN RESTAURANTS SERVERS STRUGGLING TO TAKE CARE OF MORE TABLES THAN NORMAL.

MAYBE YOU MANAGE A COMPANY THAT CANNOT FILL A VACANCY.

MAYBE YOU QUIT YOUR JOB IN THE PAST YEAR OR TWO, EITHER FOR ANOTHER JOB OR TO CHANGE CAREERS.

THERE IS A LOT OF CHURN IN THE LABOR MARKET.

THE NATION'S "QUIT" RATE HIT A 20 YEAR HIGH LAST FALL.

OVER THE NEXT HOUR, WE'LL DIG INTO THE REASONS BEHIND THIS GREAT RESIGNATION.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT'S AFFECTING US HERE IN CENTRAL OHIO.

WE'LL EXPLORE WHETHER THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL.

WE'LL ALSO CONSIDER WHETHER THE GREAT RESIGNATION IS REALLY JUST THE GREAT REORGANIZATION OF THE LABOR FORCE.

JOINING US ARE BILL LaFAYETTE, CENTRAL OHIO ECONOMIST AND FOUNDER OF REGIONOMICS.

LISA PATT McDANIEL, CEO OF THE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT BOARD OF CENTRAL OHIO.

AND SANGEETA LAKHANI, CO-FOUNDER OF SERVICE!.

A CENTRAL OHIO RELIEF PROGRAM FOR HOSPITALITY WORKERS.

BILL LaFAYETTE, LET'S START WITH YOU.

YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE ECONOMY FOR A LONG TIME, BOTH THE ECONOMY HERE IN CENTRAL OHIO AND NATIONALLY.

WHEN YOU SEE THAT "QUIT" RATE, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?

>> WELL IT'S REALLY A QUESTION OF PEOPLE SIMPLY GOING OFF AND FINDING OTHER CAREERS.

JUST A GREATER DISSATISFACTION WITH THEIR CURRENT SITUATION.

SURVEYS HAVE SHOWN THAT MORE PEOPLE THAN EVER ARE THINKING ABOUT CHANGING THEIR CAREERS, QUITTING FOR A BETTER JOB.

THAT'S HAPPENING A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN PEOPLE SIMPLY LEAVING THE LABOR FORCE.

>> IS COLUMBUS ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF THE NATION?

IS THE "QUIT" RATE IN COLUMBUS ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE NATIONAL "QUIT" RATE?

>> I DON'T HAVE THE COLUMBUS RATE.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING.

THE OHIO RATE IS CERTAINLY COMPARABLE TO WHAT WE'RE SEEING AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

>> AND OUR -- WHICH SECTORS RIGHT NOW ARE BEING AFFECTED THE MOST?

WHICH SECTORS HAVE PLENTY OF WORKERS?

WHICH SECTORS HAVE A SHORTAGE OF WORKERS?

>> WELL, I'M NOT SURE THAT ANYBODY'S GOT PLENTY OF WORKERS.

BUT, THE MOST CRITICAL SECTORS, IN TERMS OF THEIR JOB DEMANDS, ARE WAREHOUSING AND TRUCKING, SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT AND I.T.

AND THAT'S BOTH A -- AN INDUSTRY AND AN OCCUPATION.

FINANCIAL SERVICES IS -- HAS A BIG DEMAND FOR WORKERS.

AND CONSTRUCTION, INCLUDING ALL SORTS OF SKILLED TRADES.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THAT CONTRACT TO THE WORK -- ON A PROJECT THAT YOU HOST, IT'S A -- BIT OF STRUGGLE.

LISA PATT McDANIEL -- >> DARN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE.

>> YEAH, LISA PATT McDANIEL, YOUR ORGANIZATION CONNECTS PEOPLE LOOKING FOR WORK WITH FOLKS WHO WANT TO HIRE THEM.

HOW UNUSUAL HAS THIS SITUATION BEEN FOR THE PAST YEAR OR SO?

>> SO, THE INTERESTING THING IS IN OUR BUSINESS, WE'RE USUALLY VERY POPULAR WITH JOB-SEEKERS WHEN THE ECONOMY IS BAD.

WE'RE USUALLY VERY POPULAR WITH EMPLOYERS WHEN THE ECONOMY IS GOOD.

RIGHT NOW, WE'RE IN THAT VERY UNCOMFORTABLE PLACE WHERE WE'RE POPULAR WITH EVERYBODY.

SO UM, IT IS -- SO THAT IS UNUSUAL.

BUT I KNOW THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING IN WHO WANT TO FIND NEW CAREERS THAT DON'T WANT TO BE CAUGHT UP IF THERE WAS EVER A SHUTDOWN AGAIN.

AND A JOB THAT DISALLOWS THEM FROM WORKING OR THEY GET LAID OFF.

SO, IT IS VERY -- THIS TIME IS VERY UNUSUAL.

>> SANGEETA LAKHANI, YOU REPRESENT -- YOUR ORGANIZATION, SERVICE!, PROVIDES SUPPORT FOR HOSPITALITY WORKERS AND THEY HAVE BEEN REALLY HARD HIT.

THEY WERE -- THEY SHUTDOWN THE RESTAURANTS, AND BARS, AND HOTELS EARLY IN THE PANDEMIC.

AND THEN THEY HAVE SLOWLY COME BACK, THEN THEY SHUTDOWN AGAIN, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SLOW TO COME BACK TO RESTAURANTS.

THE "QUIT" RATE, AS I MENTIONED, IS HIGH AMONG HOSPITALITY WORKERS.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> SO MANY LAYERS TO THAT QUESTION.

IT'S BEEN YEARS OF HOSPITALITY WORKERS WORKING LONG HOURS, LOW WAGES, UNDER SOMEWHAT TOXIC ENVIRONMENTS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE LAST TWO YEARS HAS, I THINK, BEEN LIKE THE GREAT INTROSPECTION, RIGHT.

I MEAN, TWO YEARS OF BEING ABLE TO STAY HOME, GET UNEMPLOYMENT, NOT WORK MOTHER'S DAY, OR EASTER, OR, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY SPEND TIME WITH YOUR FAMILY.

AND JUST REALIZE HOW MUCH YOU HAD MISSED BEFORE AND REALIZE SELF-WORTH.

AND I THINK THE EMPLOYERS DO -- EMPLOYEES DO WANT MORE NOW.

AND I THINK WAGE IS JUST ONE ASPECT OF IT, BUT THEY WANT BETTER WORK ENVIRONMENTS.

THEY WANT A MORE SUSTAINABLE JOB.

THEY WANT JOB SECURITY.

THEY WANT TO WORK REGULAR HOURS, NOBODY WANTS TO WORK 80 HOUR SHIFTS ANYMORE.

THEY WANT BENEFITS, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE LAST TWO YEARS, IF IT'S SHOWED US ANYTHING, IS HOW MUCH HEALTHCARE HAS SUFFERED IN INDUSTRIES LIKE HOSPITALITY AND RETAIL.

PEOPLE WANT MORE, IT'S SIMPLE, YOU KNOW.

AND A LOT HAS BEEN LOST OVER THE YEARS.

I DON'T THINK THIS STARTED JUST WITH COVID, I THINK THIS TREND HAD STARTED A LITTLE BIT BEFORE FOR THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY.

I THINK IT JUST REALLY SHOWED UP DURING THE LAST TWO YEARS OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> YEAH, THAT WAS MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION TO YOU, SANGEETA.

THESE ISSUES THAT RESTAURANT WORKERS FACE, THEY'RE NOT NEW.

I MEAN, THEY'RE -- YOU WORK NIGHTS AND YOU WORK WEEKENDS.

YOU WORK LONG HOURS, MANY WORK FOR LITTLE PAY.

WHAT IS IT RIGHT NOW THAT HAS SORT OF FORCED THIS RECKONING, I GUESS YOU'D CALL IT.

>> IT'S SIMPLE, THEY'VE BEEN HEARD.

THEY'VE JUST NEVER HAD A VOICE BEFORE.

WE'VE BEEN SCREAMING IT FOR YEARS, YOU KNOW.

THAT -- NOBODY'S STOPPED TO LISTEN AND I THINK THIS SPOTLIGHT ON THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS HAS REALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE NOW YOU'VE GIVEN A LITTLE POWER TO THE LABOR FORCE WHICH THEY NEVER HAD BEFORE.

PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO THEM.

PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS LABOR SHORTAGE IN RESTAURANTS BECAUSE IT AFFECTS EVERYBODY, RIGHT.

I MEAN, WHO DOESN'T GO TO A RESTAURANT.

WE ALL USE IT, WHETHER IT'S IN THE BEST TIMES OF YOU LIFE OR THE WORST TIMES OF YOUR LIFE.

YOU'RE -- YOU NEED A RESTAURANT.

YOU NEED A CATERING SERVICE.

YOU NEED SERVERS.

YOU NEED YOU'RE LOCAL BARTENDER.

LIKE, WE RELY SO HEAVILY ON, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, ARE THESE FRONT LINE WORKERS THAT HAVE BEEN NEVER GIVEN THE SAME CREDENCE AS, YOU KNOW, THEIR COLLEAGUES IN ANOTHER TRADE.

AND I THINK THE LAST TWO YEARS HAS BEEN, FOR US, THE GREAT AWAKENING, RIGHT.

AND PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO CLAIM THAT POWER BACK.

>> BILL LaFAYETTE, DURING THE -- WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO RECONNECT WITH YOU, I'D MENTIONED THE "QUIT" RATE FOR RETAIL AND FOR HOSPITALITY WORKERS IS, YOU KNOW, TWO-THIRDS TO DOUBLE WHAT IT IS FOR THE REST OF THE ECONOMY.

THOSE ARE ALSO THE LOWEST PAID JOBS IN OUR ECONOMY.

IS IT COMING DOWN TO SIMPLE PAY, BILL LaFAYETTE, IS THAT -- IS THAT WHAT'S CAUSING SOME CHURN IN THAT SECTOR OF THE ECONOMY?.

OF IT BUT, IT IS ALSO WORKING CONDITIONS, IT'S RESPECT.

IT REALLY GOES BACK TO THE TREMENDOUS ECONOMIC GROWTH THAT WE'VE HAD OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS SINCE THE ECONOMY HAS RE-OPENED.

AND THAT HAS CREATED A TREMENDOUS DEMAND FOR WORKERS AND THE ECONOMY HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO SUPPLY ENOUGH WORKERS AS IT HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO SUPPLY ENOUGH GOODS FOR BUSINESSES TO PRODUCE THEIR OUTPUT.

AND SO, THIS IS GIVING WORKERS IN ALL INDUSTRIES THE OPPORTUNITY, REALLY, TO BARGAIN FOR HIGHER WAGES, BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS.

SOME OF THEM ARE STRIKING, OTHERS ARE VOTING WITH THEIR FEET.

AND SO IT REALLY GOES BACK TO THE STRENGTH OF THE ECONOMY.

>> LISA PATT McDANIEL, THIS IS KIND OF A SEAT CHANGE FOR EMPLOYERS AND YOU TALKED ABOUT FLEXIBILITY AS A KEY THING NOW THAT EMPLOYEES WANT.

HOW ARE COMPANIES ADAPTING TO THIS?

ARE THEY WILLING TO WORK WITH EMPLOYEES MORE OFTEN THAN THEY HAVE IN THE PAST?

ARE THEY RESISTANT?

>> WELL, I THINK SOME EMPLOYERS ARE DEFINITELY.

I MEAN, THOSE THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT ARE.

AND I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT CHANGING INTO THE LONG HAUL.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT THEIR BENEFITS.

I MEAN WE -- AND FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT PAY A HIGHER WAGE, THEY'RE REALLY GOING TO NEED TO LOOK AT JOB QUALITY, RIGHT.

SO WHEN SANGEETA TALKS ABOUT OUR SERVERS, AS AN EXAMPLE, OR THOSE IN RETAIL, THEY REALLY NEED TO START LOOKING AT JOB QUALITY IF THEY CAN'T LOOK AT HIGHER WAGES.

AND I THINK EMPLOYERS ARE STARTING TO COME TO THAT FACT.

NOW WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THEM, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE STARTING THAT DIALOUGE WITH THEM NOW.

BUT IF THEY WANT TO REMAIN A BUSINESS, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY DO BUSINESS.

>> LET'S GO TO A QUESTION FROM SOMEONE IN OUR AUDIENCE.

AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION PLEASE USE THE Q&A FUNCTION ON THE WEBINAR.

AND DIANA BERGEMANN, YOU HAVE A COMMENTER -- A QUESTION FROM OUR AUDIENCE.

>> YES, THIS IS AN OBSERVATION AND A QUESTION.

THIS MAN WENT ON VACATION WITH HIS WIFE IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY TO FLORIDA AND IT SEEMED THAT THERE WERE MORE WORKERS IN RESTAURANTS THAN IN COLUMBUS FROM PANERA TO HIGH-END.

ANY INSIGHTS WHY IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IN FLORIDA?

>> BILL LaFAYETTE, ANY ECONOMIC THEORIES THERE?

>> WELL, I DON'T REALLY PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO THE FLORIDA ECONOMY SPECIFICALLY.

BUT MY GUESS IS THAT -- THE FLORIDA ECONOMY IS MORE HEAVILY GEARED TOWARDS TOURISM.

THERE ARE FEWER WORKERS, CERTAINLY, IN FLORIDA IN GENERAL THAN THERE ARE IN CENTRAL OHIO WHO ARE HIGH-SKILLED, PERHAPS.

CERTAINLY EXCEPTIONS TO THAT.

BUT I THINK IT'S JUST THE STRUCTURE OF THE ECONOMY.

>> SANGEETA -- TALKING ABOUT HOW -- PARTICULARLY HOSPITALITY WORKERS, THEY WERE RELUCTANT TO COME BACK TO WORK FOR FEAR OF COVID.

MASK MANDATES WERE GOING AWAY, THEY -- WITH THE PRESSURE TO REDUCE THE DISTANCES BETWEEN CUSTOMERS AND SERVERS.

HOW MUCH OF THAT WAS A -- IS A FACTOR AND HOW MUCH OF THAT REMAINS FEAR OF THE UNCERTAINTY OVER THE VIRUS?

>> SO, I THINK TO TOUCH ON THE FLORIDA QUESTION, I THINK FLORIDA ALSO HAD A LOT LESS MANDATES THAN OHIO DID.

AND WORKERS WERE GOING TO WORK, RESTAURANTS DIDN'T HAVE THE SOCIAL DISTANCES, MASK MANDATES.

NONE OF THAT WAS AS STRICT AS IT WAS IN OHIO.

SO, I THINK IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT STRUCTURE FOR RESTAURANTS THERE.

IT IS -- IT'S BEEN A SCARY TIME FOR PEOPLE.

LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW WERE WERE EXPECTED TO BE FRONT LINE WORKERS.

RESTAURANTS WERE ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WERE RE-OPENED DURING COVID.

BUT MOST RESTAURANT WORKERS DON'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH INSURANCE.

THEY'RE EXPECTED TO GO INTO WORK SICK.

THEY WERE ALSO EXPECTED TO, YOU KNOW, MITIGATE PEOPLE COMING IN AND NOT FOLLOWING RULES.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A LOT OF STRESS PUT ON RESTAURANT WORKERS.

NOT JUST TO SHOW UP TO WORK DURING A TIME WHERE, MAYBE, YOU HAD CHILDREN AT HOME AND THEY WERE OUT OF DAY CARE AND MAYBE YOU HAD ELDERLY AT HOME.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE FEAR OF JUST TAKING COVID BACK, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CAN'T AFFORD HEATLH INSURANCE, IS A HUGE DEAL.

BUT THEY WERE EXPECTED TO SHOW UP AND WORK BECAUSE YOU KNOW -- IT'S PRETTY MUCH A THREAT, RIGHT.

EITHER YOU COME TO WORK OR YOU LOSE YOUR JOB.

A LOT OF -- A LOT OF RESTAURANT WORKERS ALSO GET CASH UNDER THE TABLE, RIGHT.

THOSE THINGS NEED TO CHANGE, BUT, THEY COULDN'T GET UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE NUMBERS THAT SOME OTHERS DID.

SO, THEY WERE STRAPPED FOR CASH, THEY'RE STUCK AT HOME, INFLATION IS HITTING, PRICES ARE GOING UP, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S A HARD PLACE TO BE IN FOR A LOT OF THESE WORKERS.

>> LISA PATT McDANIEL, ANOTHER ISSUE THAT COMES UP REALLY HIGH IN THE POLLING AS TO WHY FOLKS HAVE QUIT OR, PERHAPS, WORKING FEWER HOURS THAN THEY USED TO IS CHILD CARE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING AS FAR CHILD CARE IN THE ISSUES THAT WORKERS FACE HERE IN CENTRAL OHIO?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY WE ARE HEARING THAT VERY LOUD AND CLEAR AND CONSISTENTLY.

SO, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN WHO OVERALL BEAR THE MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY FOR TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN AND FOR ELDER CARE.

AND WITHOUT -- YOU KNOW, THIS PROBLEM WAS HAPPENING BEFORE COVID.

A LOT OF THESE THINGS, I THINK BILL WOULD AGREE, THAT WE ALREADY WERE STRAPPED FOR ENOUGH WORKERS.

SO, THIS IS TO RIP THAT BAND-AID OFF AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW THOSE PROVIDING CHILD CARE AND RUNNING THOSE BUSINESSES.

THE BUSINESS MODEL DOES NOT WORK.

IF YOU RAISE WAGES, WHICH PEOPLE SHOULD BE PAID WELL TO TAKE CARE OF MY CHILDREN, THEN IT BECOMES EVEN MORE UNAFFORDABLE.

SO WE HAVE REALLY GOT TO LOOK AS A SOCIETY TO SAY, "IS THIS A PUBLIC GOOD?"

AND MAYBE THERE ARE OTHER WAYS THAT WE CAN PROVIDE BOTH CHILD CARE AND ELDER CARE.

AND I DO BELIEVE THAT, COMBINED WITH DISRUPTION TO SCHOOL SCHEDULES, THOSE ARE ALL CONTRIBUTING, FOR SURE, TO WOMEN HAVING A HARD TIME STEPPING BACK IN TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY WANT TO INTO THE WORK FORCE.

>> BILL LaFAYETTE, YOU KNOW DURING THE PEAK OF THE PANDEMIC THERE WAS A LOT OF GOVERNMENT HELP TO HELP PEOPLE GET THROUGH IT.

THERE WERE STIMULUS CHECKS, THERE WERE ADDITIONAL UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.

MAXIMUM WAS AN EXTRA $300 A WEEK IN UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS THAT LASTED ROUGHLY A YEAR AND A HALF.

HOW MUCH OF THAT GOVERNMENT SUPPORT CONTRIBUTED TO THIS "GREAT RESIGNATION"?

>> MUCH LESS THAN YOU THINK.

I CALL -- I CALL TO MIND MISSOURI.

WHICH ENDED IT'S SUPPORT EARLY AND IN THE WEEKS FOLLOWING THE END OF THAT SUPPORT THE NUMBER OF CLICKS ON THE "INDEED" JOB SITE -- MATCHING SITE ACTUALLY WENT DOWN.

STATE OFFICIALS DIDN'T SEE, REALLY, AN INFLUX OF WORKERS.

WE SAW THE SAME THING IN OHIO.

WE WERE KIND OF IN AN UPWARD TREND ON WORKFORCE.

BUT THAT TREND CONTINUED AS OUR BENEFITS ENDED.

IT DIDN'T STRENGTHEN AT ALL.

SO REALLY IT MATTERED A WHOLE LOT LESS THAN SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT.

>> SANGEETA LAKHANI, DID THE EXTRA BENEFITS GIVE SOME RESTAURANT WORKERS -- DID IT AFFORD THEM, PERHAPS, A LITTLE MORE PATIENCE TO RETURN TO WORK, TO LOOK FOR OTHER OPPORTUNITIES?

DID THAT, YOU KNOW, CAUSE SOME OF THE SHORTAGES THAT WE SAW IN RESTAURANTS?

>> I THINK IT PROVIDED A RESPITE FOR A LOT OF THEM.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE LOWEST PAID WORKERS ON THE STRATA.

AND TO BE ABLE TO COLLECT THEIR $300, $400 A WEEK WITHOUT ACTUALLY GOING TO WORK WAS HUGE FOR THEM.

AND I THINK IT GAVE A LOT OF THEM -- I MEAN, YOU KNOW WE SEE A LOT OF COLLEGE KIDS GOING INTO THE SERVICE INDUSTRY.

OR WE SEE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE GOING INTO THE INDUSTRY BECAUSE IT'S FOR WHATEVER -- FOR MULTIPLE REASONS.

IT'S A MEANS TO AN END, RIGHT.

THEY'RE LOOKING TO DO SOMETHING ELSE BUT THIS IS A SHORT WAY TO GET THERE.

AND I THINK TO BE ABLE TO COLLECT THOSE CHECKS REALLY GAVE THEM TIME TO LIKE FOCUS ON OTHER THINGS THAT THEY MIGHT WANT TO DO.

AND IT'S BEEN HARD TO COME BACK TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID AN INDUSTRY THAT'S BEEN KNOWN TO BE TOXIC IN IT'S WORK HOURS AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S CARE FOR IT'S EMPLOYEES.

AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MORE INTROSPECTIVE AND WANT MORE PURPOSE-DRIVEN JOBS AND I THINK PEOPLE HAVE REALLY SHIFTED A MINDSET IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS AND THEY WANT MORE, YOU KNOW.

SO IT HAS BEEN A HARD SELL TO BRING PEOPLE BACK AFTER BEING AFFORDED THE LUXURY OF -- NOT LUXURY BUT AFFORDED THE TIME OFF AND, YOU KNOW, THE PAYCHECKS -- THE STEADY PAYCHECKS.

>> WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM A MEMBER OF OUR AUDIENCE, DIANA BERGEMEN?

>> UM JUST SOMEONE WHO'S CURIOUS HOW THIS TRANSLATES TO THE NOT FOR PROFIT SECTOR.

I MEAN, FROM SOCIAL SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS TO MUSEUMS TO INFORMAL LEARNING ENVIRONMENTS.

HOW'S THIS TRANSLATING?

LISA PATT McDANIEL, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?

IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FOR PROFIT AND NONPROFIT SECTORS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE NOT FOR PROFIT ALSO SUFFERS FORM VERY SIMILAR ISSUES.

AND MANY NONPROFITS OPERATE IN A WAY WHERE THEIR WAGES MAY NOT BE KEEPING PACE WITH THE MARKET.

AND SO THERE ARE SOME NONPROFITS WHO ARE HAVING A HARD TIME BRINGING ON WORKERS, FOR SURE.

SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S REALLY A DIFFERENCE.

I THINK THEY'RE SUFFERING FROM THE SAME PROBLEMS.

>> DO NONPROFITS TEND TO BE MORE FLEXIBLE WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES OR LESS FLEXIBLE BECAUSE USUALLY THEY ARE UNDERSTAFFED SO YOU NEED YOUR EMPLOYEES WHO ARE THERE TO DO A LITTLE MORE WORK THAN, PERHAPS, A FOR PROFIT COMPANY DOES.

>> RIGHT, WELL YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE THE JOB CENTER WE OPERATE -- YOU KNOW THOSE PEOPLE HAVE TO BE THERE IN THE JOB CENTER TO SEE CLIENTS.

ALTHOUGH, WE HAVE STARTED INCORPORATING MORE VIRTUAL.

BUT NOT EVERYBODY WE NEED TO SEE IS ABLE TO CONTACT US VIRTUALLY, RIGHT.

SO, YEAH I MEAN I THINK IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE NONPROFIT AND THE TYPE OF WORK THAT THEY'RE DOING AS TO WHETHER THEY CAN BE MORE FLEXIBLE OR NOT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN SAY THAT ABOUT ALL THE NONPROFITS, RIGHT.

JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

>> YEAH, DIANA ANY MORE QUESTIONS?

>> YEAH, A BUNCH OF THEM.

SOMEBODY'S JUST ASKING IS BEING A HARD WORKER STILL A GOOD THING?

DO MORE PEOPLE PITY HARD WORKERS NOW RATHER THAN ADMIRE THEM?

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T NEED TO WORK HARD TO MAKE ENDS MEET, IS THERE LESS AMBITION, A REPRIORITIZATION, OR SOMETHING ELSE?

>> WHO WANTS TO TAKE THAT ONE?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> I DON'T THINK IT EVER HURTS TO WORK HARD.

>> YEAH.

>> I THINK THAT'S A PERSONAL CHOICE IN LIFE ABOUT THE KIND OF PERSON YOU WANT TO BE AND WHAT DIRECTION YOU WANT YOUR LIFE TO GO IN.

MY MOTIVATION COMES FORM MY WORK AND MY WORK COMES FROM MY MOTIVATION.

I DON'T SEE SEPARATING THE TWO.

I WOULDN'T WORK LESS HARD BECAUSE SOMEBODY PITIED ME MORE OR GAVE ME A PAT ON THE BACK.

I'M WORKING HARD FOR SELF-GRATIFICATION.

BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S A VERY PERSONAL QUESTION.

>> AND ALSO YOU WANT TO BE DIDN'T SIT AT HOME AND HAD TO CONTINUE TO WORK SERVING THE REST OF US WHO HAD THE LUXURY PRIVILEGE OF SITTING AT HOME.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT GAVE EVERYBODY AN OPPORTUNITY TO RETHINK WHAT IT IS.

BUT, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST GO BACK TO THE PREVIOUS QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, UNLESS PEOPLE ARE INDEPENDENTLY WEALTHY THEY AREN'T JUST SITTING HOME -- THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY THEIR BILLS, THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY RENT.

SO, THIS IDEA THAT SOMEHOW PEOPLE -- SURE THERE'S A SMALL GROUP THAT ARE MAYBE DEMOTIVATED TO WORK.

THAT WOULD'VE BEEN TRUE PRE-COVID.

BUT HOW DO YOU -- PEOPLE HAVE TO SURVIVE AND ANY PAYMENT BY THE GOVERNMENT -- UNEMPLOYMENT -- YOU CANNOT LIVE OFF UNEMPLOYMENT AND THEN THAT ENDS.

SO, THERE HAS TO BE -- THERE ARE MANY OTHER UNDERLYING REASONS IF A PERSON'S CHOOSING NOT TO GO BACK TO WORK RIGHT NOW.

ACTUALLY, EVEN SAYING THEY'RE CHOOSING IT IS WRONG.

SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT ACTUALLY HAVE THE CHOICE TO GO BACK RIGHT NOW.

SO, I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.

>> BILL LaFAYETTE, LET'S GET TO THAT ECONOMIC ISSUE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATS THAT ARE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW, YOU HAVE A LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE, A HIGH "QUIT" RATE, AND A HIGH INFLATION RATE.

THEY'RE ALL CONNECTED, ARE THEY NOT?

>> OH, THEY CERTAINLY ARE.

WAGES WENT UP TO ENTICE WORKERS AND THAT, IN TURN, GAVE PEOPLE MORE MONEY TO SPEND.

SUPPLY WAS RESTRICTED BECAUSE THE ECONOMY ESSENTIALLY SHUTDOWN FOR A FEW MONTHS IN 2020 AND STILL HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO COMPLETELY RECOVER ITS SUPPLY CHAIN STRENGTH.

AND SO, AS A RESULT, WE'RE SEEING VERY VERY HIGH INFLATION THAT'S DRIVEN -- IT'S A CLASSIC DEMAND-PULL INFLATION AND IT'S GOING TO COOL OFF A LITTLE BIT THIS YEAR.

BUT THE LATEST PROJECTIONS ARE IT'S GOING TO STAY HIGH FOR MOST, OR ALL, THIS YEAR AT LEAST.

>> IS THIS KIND OF PAYBACK OR -- AS THEY CALL IT ON WALL STREET, A MARKET CORRECTION.

WE HAD VERY LOW INFLATION FOR A LONG TIME.

AND WAGES STAYED PRETTY LOW AND DIDN'T EVEN KEEP UP WITH THE SMALL RATES OF INFLATION THAT WE HAD FOR A LONG TIME.

IS THIS - ARE WE CATCHING UP NOW?

WE'RE HAVING TO PAY PEOPLE MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE DEMANDING MORE.

AND THAT'S RESULTING IN HIGHER PRICES.

>> WELL, I THINK TO SOME DEGREE YES.

BUT, THE LOW INFLATION THAT WE SAW OVER THE LAST DECADE I THINK WAS, IN PART, A FUNCTION OF THE GLOBAL DEMAND AND THE GLOBAL SUPPLY OF GOODS AND SERVICES.

AND THE PANDEMIC DID A NUMBER ON THAT.

AND THAT'S -- SO IT'S MORE THE PANDEMIC THAN IT REALLY IS CATCHING UP.

>> SO IT'S MORE THE SUPPLY -- THE SUPPLY OF GOODS BEING LOW THAN IT IS WORKERS MAKING MORE MONEY AND FOLKS HAVING TO CHARGE CUSTOMERS MORE TO MAKE UP FOR THE HIGHER RATES OF PAY.

>> IT'S BOTH.

>> IT'S BOTH.

>> IT REALLY IS BOTH.

>> OKAY, LET'S GET ANOTHER QUESTION FROM OUR AUDIENCE, DIANA BERGEMEN.

>> YEAH, HOW DO YOU SEE THIS SHIFT IN WORKPLACE AND WORKPLACE CULTURE CHANGE EDUCATION BOTH AT THE SECONDARY AND POST-SECONDARY LEVELS.

>> LISA PATT McDANIEL, YOU WANT TO TAKE CARE OF -- TAKE ON THAT ONE?

>> UM, THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

AND I'M NOT SURE WE KNOW, YET.

I MEAN, I THINK WHAT WE DO KNOW IS AT THE K-12 LEVEL WE'VE HAD A LOSS OF ADVANCEMENTS.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, THERE ARE MANY CHILDREN WHO HAVE FALLEN BEHIND BECAUSE OF COVID, BECAUSE OF SCHOOL SCHEDULES BEING SPOTTY, BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS FULLY TO EDUCATION IN THEIR HOMES.

SO WE KNOW THAT.

WE KNOW THAT POST-SECONDARY ENROLLMENT HAS GONE WAY DOWN, WE DO KNOW THAT.

THAT KIDS WERE GRADUATING FROM HIGH SCHOOL IN 2020, 2021, NOW 2022.

AND THEY ARE NOT MATRICULATING TO COLLEGE -- AS MANY OF THEM AS THEY WERE PRE-COVID.

AND THAT IS A PROBLEM, BUT IT ALSO MEANS -- IT'S COMPLICATED BECAUSE WE ALSO -- THERE'RE A LOT OF JOBS THAT WE HAVE THAT REQUIRE SOME POST-SECONDARY CREDENTIAL, NOT COLLEGE.

BUT THEY'RE ALSO NOT MATRICULATING INTO THOSE PROGRAMS, AS WELL.

AND, SO THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR OUR FUTURE WORKFORCE, FOR SURE.

AND FOR THE WORKFORCE WE NEED RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THOSE KIDS WHO GRADUATED IN 2020, 2021, AND MAYBE EVEN 2022 IN SOME OF THE LARGEST DISTRICTS IN THE STATE ARE LOST.

AND WE HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO FIND THEM.

>> BILL LaFAYETTE -- >> AND I, YEAH.

>> BILL LaFAYETTE, DO YOU HAVE ANY THEORIES AS TO WHY THAT'S HAPPENING, WHY FOLKS ARE NOT GOING ON TO COLLEGE OR ADVANCED TRAINING AFTER HIGH SCHOOL?

>> WELL, I THINK FOR COLLEGE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS AFFORDABILITY.

COLLEGE HAS GOTTEN MORE AND MORE AND MORE EXPENSIVE.

I AM REALLY DISMAYED TO HEAR THAT PEOPLE AREN'T GOING INTO POST-SECONDARY NON-COLLEGE PROGRAMS WHICH CAN BE A TREMENDOUS WAY TO GET A DECENT CAREER WITHOUT A MOUNTAIN OF COLLEGE DEBT.

AND BY THE WAY, MY LITTLE BACK OF THE ENVELOPE ANALYSIS OF THE DEMAND FOR INTEL JOBS SUGGESTS THAT A LOT OF THOSE JOBS ARE NOT GOING TO REQUIRE A COLLEGE DEGREE.

JUST A FAIR AMOUNT OF TRAINING AFTER HIGH SCHOOL.

>> YEAH INTEL, OF COURSE, IS BUILDING AT LEAST TWO FACTORIES IN THE NEW ALBANY AREA.

THEY HOPE TO EMPLOY UP TO 3,000 PEOPLE.

THEY SAY THE AVERAGE WAGE WILL BE AROUND $130,000-$135,000 A YEAR.

SANGEETA, WHAT -- THE REASON OF DISPARITY BECAUSE THE FOLKS WITH A COLLEGE DEGREE HAVE BEEN QUITTING AT A HIGHER RATE THAN FOLKS WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE.

A LOT OF RESTAURANT SERVERS ARE EARLY IN THEIR CAREERS, MAY NOT HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE, MAYBE GOING TO SCHOOL NIGHTS.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING AS FAR AS THE EDUCATION GAP IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S EVERY REALLY AFFECTED THE SERVICE INDUSTRY AS MUCH.

I THINK THE SERVICE INDUSTRY SEES PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

BUT WE DO SEE MORE PEOPLE -- I MEAN THERE DEFIANTLY HAS BEEN A SHIFT IN PEOPLE TRYING FIND MORE TRAINING PROGRAMS.

SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE GO INTO CODING BECAUSE OF COMPANIES LIKE INTEL, AND GOOGLE, AND AMAZON OFFERING JOBS AT THAT LEVEL.

AND THOSE ARE THINGS THEY CAN WORK ON FROM HOME AND, YOU KNOW, GET THEIR CERTIFICATION AND GO ON TO WORK IN THOSE ARENAS.

>> WELL THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

THANK YOU TO OUR PANELISTS.

ECONOMIST BILL LaFAYETTE, LISA PATT McDANIEL OF THE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT BOARD OF CENTRAL OHIO, AND SANGEETA LAKHANI OF SERVICE!.

AND THANKS TO YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON, BE WELL.

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