♪♪ Scott: Julieanna Richardson is the founder and visionary of The HistoryMakers, the largest collection of African American video oral history in the world.

The collection, housed at the Library of Congress and growing every day, chronicles the life stories of African Americans who have made their mark on everything from culture to business and philanthropy.

Ms. Richardson joins us today to talk about this amazing collection.

I've heard you say, Julieanna, that you don't know, always, where history lies.

What did that statement mean to you when you first said it?

Julieanna: Um, I...

I mean exactly what I said, because you don't know.

Like, I remember when I- when we were first starting the project and, you know, the- and people didn't know us.

And so, we were trying to balance off between well-known and unsung.

And I was going to interview a man named Colonel Bill Thompson, and I knew he was a Tuskegee airman, um- But I had great doubt going there, and when I, you know, knocked on the door, it was- there was magic there.

So, he had been the chief documentarian for the Tuskegee Airmen, and a lot of his things are in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, as well as the Tuskegee museum in... in Detroit.

And so, he had boxes that he had prepared for us, and he sits me down and he says, "Have you heard of The Golden Thirteen?"

and I said, "No, Colonel Thompson, I've never heard of The Golden Thirteen."

He said, "Well, there are four left living in the country.

They're the Navy's version of the Tuskegee Airmen.

There are four left living in the country.

One lives upstairs."

Scott: I've never heard of them before.

Julieanna: And... and he said, "He wants to talk to you also."

So, that story led to me being seated next to General Colin Powell, and who I was really targeting for an interview.

I was, you know, chatting him up and he was telling me "No," he was taken care of.

Um, and then I told him my Colonel Thompson story, and then he told me about the Montford Point Marines, who were the Marines' version of the Tuskegee Airmen.

So, all- when you think of it, we only hear of the Tuskegee Airmen, but all three branches- the Montford Point Marines, the Navy's The Golden Thirteen, and the Tuskegee Airmen- are the, um, the... the time where we're integrating U.S. Armed Forces.

And so, um, so that's... that's what I mean by that, "You never know where his... history lies."

Scott: Give us a sense of the span of the stories that you've collected over the years.

First off, how many of these histories have you collected thus far?

Julieanna: We're at approximately 3400, recorded in 413 cities and towns across the United States.

Uh, the average length of the interview is three to four hours, in length.

Um, we- Our oldest "HistoryMaker," uh, at the time of the interview, was 109.

She died at 114, Louisiana Hides, who was a World War II, uh, Rosie the Riveter.

The youngest, um, Ayisha McMillan, was a prima ballerina, um, from North Carolina.

So, the... the subjects are vast.

I mean, it's from every discipline.

Um, we haven't yet reached every part of the United States, but that is our goal.

Um, I often tell people, around COVID, we were do- deciding that we were going to do, uh, research outlines that trace the history of, um, uh, Blacks in military, or the history of Black lawyers, the history of Blacks in medicine.

Um, and so, as part of that, you know, one- on one... one of our calls, you know, I was saying, you know, Montana has, like, really rich Black history.

Scott: Montana?

Julieanna: And so, I know I made that statement, but, uh, one of our researchers really didn't believe me.

And, you know, he was, uh, working on our civics outline and he brought in photos one morning, saying, you know, "“You were right."

There were all kinds of photos, you know.

But around 1930s, it starts changing, you know, to the Montana that we know today, but- Yeah, Black people are all over.

We've traveled to, you know, Alaska and Hawaii.

Both of those histories go back to the 1800s.

In fact, in Alaska- I'm so proud to say I'm so proud of my Black Alaska HistoryMaker group because, you know, we went through the... the museum- they have a wonderful museum in Anchorage, world-class museum- but I noticed that there were no Black people in the museum, and- But they took the challenge and, now, there's a 8500 square foot, um, excellently curated exhibit dedicated to the lives of Black Alaskans and their... their history.

Scott: Wow.

You have, uh, partnered with the Library of Congress.

How... how did that relationship come to be, and... and what exactly does it do?

Julieanna: So, um, the- So, we- The... the Library of Congress serves as our permanent repository.

Um, we're in the largest facility for AV material built anywhere in the world.

Uh, we're in their facility in Culpeper.

Uh, the facility was, uh, built with the largest gift to date to the federal government, uh, of $163 million donated by David Packard, who loves moving image archives.

And so, there are films going back to the beginning of film in the United States.

So, that's where we're housed.

Uh, the other thing that's significant about the Library of Congress and where we're housed is that we, um- You know, we're the largest attempt to record the Black experience since the WPA Slave Narratives.

Uh, between the years 1936 and '38, there were 2300 formerly enslaved interviewed.

And so, the fact that in the Library Congress are the stories of the formerly enslaved and the stories of the descendants of the formerly enslaved- I- As we were preparing- 'cause it was a lot of work.

We had to digitize everything before we delivered it.

And I remember, you know, like, the exhaustion, but waking up at... at- um, on vacation and, like, it was, like, three o'clock in the morning, like, "That's where the... the WPA slave narratives-" So, I wasn't thinking about that 'cause we're in the video section, but- Um, in terms of how that came about, uh- There's a man named James Lender, um, who actually has become a friend, but he's an expert in... in moving image archives.

And so, he visited, and I was like, I- you know, "What am I doing with all this material?"

It was, like, all over.

And, um, you know, he sits me down and he goes, um, "So, did you think about, um, adding other things to the collection?"

or, you know, he w- and he was challenging me on, you know, I "didn't think big enough."

And I'm like, "I'm suffocating on thinking big," but, um, he- You know, as he got up to leave, you know, he said that this collection belongs in the Library of Congress, so he made the call for us.

And... and then, I ha- went and visited several times and then we entered into an agreement.

Scott: When... when you, um, began that relationship, that was in the midst of the work that you do every day in trying to collect these stories.

What are the close calls you've had, where it is that you were able to capture a story before the person went away, and it... it just really added to the richness of the entire collection?

Julieanna: I'm sure there are several stories like that.

I- The one that comes immediately to mind- but there are several like that because we've also lost people, just- We just lost James Mtume, who's a, you know, famous musician and we were scheduled to do his interview and- um, and- uh, you know, his son had arranged.

Um, and then, the crew was in New York, and they said, you know, he had been hospitalized.

So, we never got his story.

But, um, I would say, you know, one of the ones that come to mind- but there are... there are quite a few of them and I- you know, um- But one of them that comes to mind is Jessye Norman, um, and we had, um, gone to- over a series of maybe three visits, um, to visit her in her apartment in New York.

Um, and, um, she died about maybe six, seven months later.

But there... there... there are several examples of that, of people that we just got in the, you know, in the nick of time.

Um, the- You know, th... there- We... we- One person that also comes to mind is Eartha Kitt- uh, these are vocalists, by the way- but we had honored her.

And, um, I didn't know Eartha Kitt, um- I- You know, I didn't know- I had heard, in the process, that she had had cancer.

And she came with her daughter and she's, you know, this tall, and she came out on that stage, kicking her leg up at 80-something years old.

I mean...

I mean, wearing a slit up, and there was no way in my mind that- You know, 'cause that was, like, September.

And then, she was- She died on... on Christmas day when the song she's known, uh, known for is "Santa Baby."

I mean, it's just, you know, like, magical instances.

Like, I really felt that she had chosen us, I mean, in some, you know, odd way.

So- Scott: You know, you talk about, you know, when she passed away, and being able to capture that.

The- You've also said that if we lose the 20th century, we lose everything.

Julieanna: Yeah.

Scott: What... what is it that you're racing against right now?

Julieanna: Okay.

So, I started out to tell people's stories.

I was tremendously, um, impacted by the lack of knowledge of my own history, you know, because I grew up in a... a small, um, steel mine- coal... coal mining town called Duquesne, Pennsylvania.

And then, I moved when I was age nine, after my father retired from the military, from the army, uh, to a town called Newark, Ohio, which- There were a thousand Blacks out of 50,000 whites.

And, um, and the only thing we studied were- about Black people were, um, uh, slavery and George Washington Carver and his peanuts in my... in my hometown.

And I just couldn't believe, like, my teachers were like, "He could do anything with peanuts."

And then, you know, you see these pictures of us being enslaved.

Those two facts didn't compute.

So, I, um- So, I wanted to, um, change that.

So, I was tremendously, you know, as I said, influenced by, um, that and wanted to change it.

Scott: You know, you talked about how, um, you have to s- to- you're racing to capture the point- Julieanna: So, okay.

So... so... so, what happened- So, we start out to record these stories.

And then, it just so happened, maybe, about a decade ago- thank you, uh, Scott- um, that I started to, like, ask people, you know, what they were doing with their papers.

And, um- And I was concerned because even well-known people weren't doing anything about their papers.

And when I mean, "papers," I'm talking about letters, correspondence, photographs, you know, the things to tell the story.

Now, we had, obviously- I think it was- You know, we interviewed Julian Bond, the fall of 2000.

We started doing interviews in... in February of 2000.

By the fall of 2000, we're in Washington, D.C.

I'm interviewing him, and I'd asked him- That was the first person I asked to bring photos to the interview, and he came with those photos, you know, and it took me back to my childhood self, because he had those curly- I mean, we all fell in love.

All the young girls and the older women fell in love with Julian Bond and his curls.

So, um... so, um- I started to realize that, um, that the 20th century was, really, not recorded.

I didn't really realize that, um, '‘til, probably, starting a decade ago.

I mean, I had found my history in New York Schomburg Library.

I knew about the Amistad.

I mean, they're real- Tuskegee, Howard University, I mean, um, maybe Clayton- they're... they're really rich repositories, some better preserved than others, but they're rich repositories.

I didn't realize that almost no library, museum, archive have the presence of Black people.

And I used to talk about the urgency, you know, with people in the Jewish community.

There were debates.

You know, some people said, you know, "The Holocaust was really urgent."

I said, "Well, it's urgent also with the Black community."

And so, there was that feeling of urgency that, you know, I needed to record people.

I need to get to them before, you know, uh, time passed.

But now, I'm like, there's a new, immediate urgency because I just didn't understand how little we are documented.

We've lost the 17th... Scott: Mmhmm.

Julieanna: ...the 18th, and 19th centuries.

We can ill afford to lose the 20th.

Scott: I was going to... to say that, in... in describing, uh, your observations, it almost sounds similar- You... you... you mentioned the Holocaust.

It almost sounds a... a bit reminiscent of the Shoah project in... in some ways.

Is there any relationship there between, uh, you know, their process and... and how that's informed how you approach this process?

Julieanna: Well, it's... it's an interesting thing.

I mean, I- As I started to talk about the project, um- I went to a Jewish university, Brandeis University, and that's a lot of where my project began, where I was doing research on the Harlem Renaissance.

But as I started to, you know, do the project, 'cause I wrote inste- first, a concept paper, instead of a business plan, um, because people were asking me, you know, how... how I was going to pull this off.

And, um, so, I- You know, people started talking about the Shoah Foundation.

So, I contacted them.

They weren't responsive in the beginning, but I actually ended up going to visit Shoah very early in the project.

They were on the Universal lot, uh, right next to Dreamworks.

And they had- At that time, they were sort of winding down, um, their interview operations.

They had interviewed 52,000 Holocaust survivors in five years, um, and, um, and they- You know, there were very interesting things about it, like they, um, would have people fill out a 40-page questionnaire, you know.

So, the concept of the questionnaire, our questionnaire came from that.

Um, so, we have a very close working relationship, over the years, even past changing executive directors.

In fact, um, over a period of time- like, maybe within the last five years- I went and, you know, spent two days with them.

Um, you know, they have, uh, a man there named Sam Gustman, who I consider a brilliant technologist, um, and, um- And so, you know, um, things like FedEx, you know, shipped all their things all over the world and then, by the time it came to us, there was no... no possibility for shipping.

But they've been... they've been really, um, informative.

We take delight in each other's work.

Um, I, um- You know, I was looking at them from a fundraising perspective, but yeah, we... we... we have a close working relationship.

Scott: I...

I'm...

I'm curious.

With this, you know, j- huge collection, and growing every day, how would you like, ultimately, this collection used?

Julieanna: Um, to educate the world about the Black experience, to raise the cultural equity of the Black community, um, to show the diversity and depth and beauty of the Black community, the strength, um, to diversify how we're, um, shown, um, to give- I want the collection to be relevant for the child who's not yet born.

And I would like us to be a beacon for other lost American stories, um, who got sort of lost in the melting pot.

Scott: Interesting.

I'm curious.

When you... when you talk about all these stories, there's been the saying for the past 20 years or so in media that "Content is King."

And you've got comment- uh, or content, and then some.

If you were giving advice right now to the head of Netflix or HBO on stories that just have to be told, that would be fantastic- and I know it's difficult- but could you pick two or three that you'd say, "Oh yeah, this needs to be a movie or a series.

This individual needs to be highlighted."?

Julieanna: I don't know if I'll be able to answer that question 'cause there's so many stories in the collection, and I'll try to think of them.

But I want to start with, um, Katherine Johnson, who, uh, we interviewed, um, um, who, uh, "Hidden Figures" was featured in.

Now, to me, that- I never would have thought that that story would have come out of our- you know, that that would be the story that would come out of our collection.

It didn't come out of our collection.

They independently- But that would be a groundbreaking movie that lots of people were like, "I never even knew that history."

We have so many stories like that.

I mean, there are thousands of stories of... of families and... and communities.

I mean, there's, um- One of my early interviews, and I just have a fondness for this, is Katherine Dunham, who, um, created Black dance for this compa- c... country.

Um, when I went to interview her, she was living, um, in an assisted liv... living care are- um, apartment.

The Belafontes, um, had moved her to york- New York.

Julie Belafonte had been, you know, who was white, had been, um, a Katherine Dunham dancer and- She started in the 1930s.

What was really fascinating is that she was half Canadian, her mother, um, half Canadian, and, uh, the... the father was 20 years younger than the... the mother.

And they were two Taylor brothers- Uh, he was part of uh, uh, two Taylors in downtown Chicago.

Um, she, uh, you know- Her legs were insured, um, uh, I think, for 25,000 when she starred in "Cabin in the Sky."

She traveled, uh, the world with 40 dancers in her dance troupe, with no grant money.

Um, she was just really fascinating in all of her work that she did, her formative work that she did in Haiti as she was doing her PhD, um, and graduating with it from- in anthropology- from the University of... of, uh, Chicago.

I- So, there- I...

I...

I can't- There... there are just so- There's so many stories.

I...

I mean, I could...

I could sort of go on and on, but there... there are a lot of stories in there about- Scott: Well... well, let me try this one, then.

Who has been your most difficult "get," in terms of getting to have them sit down with you, and the most satisfying ones you did?

Julieanna: Well, okay.

We did the- him as "An Evening With..." but I wrote to Berry Gordy for every year, for... for... for 14 years.

I mean, every year.

And the interesting thing is that I had actually traveled to Detroit to meet with Esther Gordy, and I...

I chuckled with her niece, um, um, Robin Terry- who's now heading up the... the Motown Museum- because there was Esther seat... seated with her nephew and, um, some- another relative on the other side, and I'm pitching.

I mean, I'm really, you know, trying to say, "I want to partner."

You know, I don't really have a pot to piss in, really, at that point, when you think about it.

You know, and she's sitting there very politely, saying "yes" and "no" at the same time.

And so, I never got her interview.

And then, I really- If it not been for- I mean, I wrote to Berry Gordy, I mean, every year and then, fi- And, you know, there were times when... it was "No," then it became "Maybe," then it became "Possibly," then it became "Maybe no, maybe no, maybe no."

And then, they finally said "Yes."

Scott: Fantastic.

Julieanna: And so, that... that... that was really quite, uh, wonderful.

Um, I also think of, um- You know, I'm sure that we- James Earl Jones, um, you know, we had written to a lot.

I...

I had become fascinated because I'd been hearing that his father was also an actor and James Earl Jones didn't really grow up with his father, but he- they both had the actor gene, and the part that his father always wanted to play was Othello.

So, when he- when James got the chance to play Othello- which he played four times- He always was falling in love with his Desdemonas, and I think he married two of them.

Um, but he, um- You know, his father was, like, instructing him.

You know, they sort of got into a heated argument about- over Othello.

But that was, you know, it was really lovely.

He came with his son to the interview, you know, and... and then, you know, he was- He... he was, like, the best man at the... the wedding of Elizabeth Taylor.

You know, so that was- You know, it's so nice.

Scott: Th... that... that is.

Wow.

Julieanna: Yeah.

Scott: That is quite the story.

I...

I wanted to ask you, in our final moments- Uh, I know that we can see some of The HistoryMakers on the PBS app and that you've partnered with PBS in the past, but where is it that we should go, in order to enjoy more of these stories?

Julieanna: There- It's, um- Our website is www.thehistorymakers.org.

But we would encourage your viewers to become "DigitalMakers," and then you can see all 11,000 interviews through our... our digital archive, which Carnegie Mellon helped us build.

And all... all of that materials, they're searchable by just keywords.

It's, really, all transcribed, all searchable.

You can put in a keyword, and it'll take you any place within the collection.

Scott: And we're going to have to leave it there.

Julieanna Richardson, thank you so much for joining us and we wish you well in your work.

Julieanna: Thank you so much.

Scott: And that's our show.

Thanks to our guest, and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪ ♪♪ Scott Syphax: All episodes of Studio Sacramento, along with other KVIE programs, are available to watch online at kvie.org/video.