>> GOVERNMENT PERMITS TO FEED THE HUNGRY.

THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF COVID MANDATES ON THE FRONTLINES AND, ABORTION POLICY OPTIONS.

STAY TUNED IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

FLL.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

AND, WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

THANK YOU FOR JONING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

IN THE STUDIO WITH ME TO ANALYZE THIS WEEK'S NEWS ARE: KRISTI ANDERSEN OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSIT,Y, LUKE PERRY OF UTICA COLLEGE, CHAD SPARBER OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY AND TARA ROSS OF ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE >> I THINK MOST OF YOU WHO ARE WATCHING WILL AGREE THAT THE HOLIDAY SEASON FOR SO MANY OF US IS A TIME OF GIVING OF OURSELVES AND WHAT WE HAVE TO OTHERS.

CENTRAL NEW YORK CERTAINLY HAS A VIBRANT COMMUNITY OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT GIVE TO THE POOR FROM THE RESCUE MISSION TO IN MY FATHER'S KITCHEN, AND MORE.

BUT, THE CITY OF NEWARK, NEW JERSEY IS CHANNELING A DIFFERENT KIND OF HOLIDAY SPIRIT.

IT'S CONSIDERING AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD REQUIRE A PERMIT FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FEED THE HOMELESS IN PUBLIC PLACES.

SEVENTEEN OTHER CITIES ALREADY HAVE SIMILAR RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE.

THEY SAY BECAUSE OF FOOD SAFETY CONCERNS AND WANTING TO ENCOURAGE THOSE WHO LIVE ON THE STREETS TO GO TO SHELTERS AND SOUP KITCHENS INSTEAD.

ONE OF THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT I MENTIONED ACTUALLY GOES OUT AND GIVES FOOD AND BASIC NECESSITIES TO HOMELESS INDIVIDUALS WHERE THEY LIVE ON THE STREETS.

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO REQUIRE A GOVERNMENT-ISSUED PERMIT IN ORDER TO DO SO?

>> NO, IT DOESN'T.

YOU KNOW, HOMELESSNESS IS SUCH A MAJOR CHALLENGE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THIS EVENING, OVER HALF A MILLION PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE HOMELESS.

AND MOST OF THESE PEOPLE ARE FROM HISTORICALLY MARGINALIZED GROUPS.

20% ARE FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN.

10% ARE MILITARY VETERANS.

WE NEED TO DO BETTER.

AND AS SOMEONE WHO HAS LIVED IN BIG CITIES, I USED TO CARRY AROUND SANDWICHES WHEN I WAS OUT AND ABOUT AND WHEN I SAW SOMEONE WHO WAS HOMELESS, I WOULD OFFER THEM A SANDWICH.

I DON'T SEE ANY REASON FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO CRIMINALIZE THIS BEHAVIOR.

>> THE QUESTION ITSELF REMINDS ME OF TWO DIFFERENT STORIES.

ONE IS BACK IN 2017.

MY FAMILY AND I WERE LIVING IN LONDON.

WE WENT TO MASS ONE MORNING, A HOMELESS PERSON WAS ASKING FOR MONEY.

MY NINE-YEAR-OLD WANTED TO GIVE HIM MONEY AND I STOPPED HER AND SHE SAID WHY.

I MY CATHOLIC FAITH SAYS CHARITY IS A VIRTUE WITH ECONOMIC FAITH THAT SAYS INCENTIVES MATTER.

THE SECOND STORY COMES FROM A TRIP THAT I TOOK WITH A BUNCH OF PROFESSORS DOWN TO MEXICO WHERE WE VIFLT VISITED WITH A SOUP KITCHEN CALLED THE KENO BORDER INITIATIVE.

RUN BY THE JESUITS AND SISTER ALICIA AND THEY PROVIDED FOOD AND BASIC MEDICAL CARE TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY HAD BEEN DEPORTED FROM THE U.S. AND THEY DO SO FOR EIGHT DAYS.

AND THE QUESTION IS WHY EIGHT DAYS?

JUST EIGHT DAYS?

AND THE ANSWER WAS BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AID AND DEPENDENCY.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE KEY ISSUE HERE WITH THESE KINDS OF POLICIES.

ORGANIZATIONS ARE BETTER EQUIPPED TO NOT ONLY HAM A PERSON HANDLE A PERSON'S IMMEDIATE NEED BUT THE LONGER TERM CAUSES OF THE KIND OF SITUATIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE IN, THAT THOSE ORGANIZATIONS ARE BETTER AT DEALING WITH IT THAN WE AS INDIVIDUALS ARE.

>> SO THERE ACTUALLY ARE ORGANIZATIONS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE PERMITTED SO CHAD I WONDER YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE FACT THAT SOME HOMELESS PEOPLE DON'T FEEL SAFE GOING IN SHELTERS AND THEY'RE INFAMOUSLY FAMOUS FOR, YOU KNOW, BEING UNSAFE, ACTUALLY.

SO HOW DO YOU RECONCILE SOME OF THAT WITH YOUR THOUGHTS?

THE GENERAL PRINCIPLE CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE BUT THEN ON THE GROUND... >> IT'S DIFFICULT.

AND I THINK COVID COMPOUNDS THAT, RIGHT?

BUT I THINK IT'S NOT JUST A SAFETY ISSUE.

IT'S AUTONOMY ISSUE.

BUT IF I'M, AGAIN, SORT OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE MOTIVATION OF SOME OF THESE POLICIES ARE, I WOULD GUESS THAT CITIES LIKE NEWARK ARE LOOKING AT WEST COAST CITIES AND THE RISE IN HOMELESSNESS THAT'S HAPPENED THERE AND THE RISE OF TENT CITIES THAT HAPPEN THERE AND PEOPLE ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT SITUATION.

>> BUT THE PERMITTING CAN BE OF DIFFERENT KINDS.

I MEAN APPARENTLY THE PERMITTING IN NEW JERSEY WAS REALLY TRYING TO SHUT DOWN THE PROGRAMS, IT SEEMED, THE PROGRAMS OF HANDING OUT FOOD IN THESE PUBLIC PLACES OR PARKS OR WHATEVER.

IT WAS $6,000 JUST TO BEGIN WITH WAS A LOT OF MONEY.

AND APPARENTLY WAS NOT-- DIDN'T REALLY HAVE THINGS YOU COULD DO TO BE ACCEPTABLE.

AND I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING AND I'M NOT SURE WHEN THIS WAS.

BUT RECENTLY A FEDERAL COURT IN THE SOUTH RULED AGAINST, I THINK IT WAS FORT LAUDERDALE WHO WAS INSTITUTING A PERMITTING PROGRAM FOR THIS SORT OF HANDING OUT FOOD.

AND THEY SAID IT WAS-- IT VIOLATED THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF THAT GROUP, THE GROUP THAT HANDED OUT THE FOOD; THAT SHARING FOOD WITH PEOPLE WAS A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT, WHICH WAS INTERESTING.

AND PART OF THEIR CRITIQUE WAS THAT IT WAS, IT SEEMED TO BE SIMPLY TO TRY TO STOP IT, NOT TO CONTROL IT.

AND I THINK THERE IS A REASON FOR NEW YORK CITY, NEWARK, ANY PLACE TO WANT NOT TO HAVE A LOT OF TRASH LEFT AROUND IF PEOPLE ARE IN THE PARK HANDING OUT FOOD OR AND TO CONTROL IT IN OTHER WAYS.

SO NEW YORK APPARENTLY-- NEW YORK CITY APPARENTLY HAS A PERMITTING REQUIREMENT BUT THEY DON'T REALLY CHARGE FOR IT.

IT'S ON THE BOOKS, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY RESTRICT.

>> $75 PERMIT AND I THINK THAT'S FOR PERMANENT SHELTERS BUT I'M NOT SURE.

BUT TARA, I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU, GIVEN WHAT KRISTI SAID ABOUT THE INTEREST OF MAKING SURE THINGS GO IN A CERTAIN WAY.

CAN I PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AND ASK YOU IF THIS IS REALLY ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE, ABOUT MAKING THE HOMELESS INVISIBLE, CONSIDERED UNSIGHTLY AND EVEN CRIMINALIZING HOMELESSNESS?

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS?

>> I THINK THERE IS A CERTAIN ELEMENT OF THAT BECAUSE WHAT-- IF YOU LOOK AT CITIES THAT HAVE ADOPTED THESE ORDINANCES OR TRIED TO ADOPT THESE ORDINANCES, USUALLY THE AREA WHERE THE HOMELESS ARE BEING FED IS NEAR SOMETHING THAT'S VERY PUBLIC.

THE BIG PUBLIC PARK WHERE HAVE YOU FESTIVALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IN OTHER CITIES IT'S NEAR A TRAIN STATION.

SO USUALLY THERE IS A CONNECTION WITH SOMETHING WHERE YOU HAVE THE REST OF THE PUBLIC, SO TO SPEAK, COMING IN AND OUT, CONGREGATING, WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN INCIDENTS, WHERE PEOPLE FELT THEY WERE BOTHERED-- MAYBE THEY HAVE OR HAVEN'T BEEN BY HOMELESS PEOPLE.

OR THERE IS THE ISSUE OF TRASH AND THAT SORE OF THING.

SO I THINK PART OF IT IS AN EFFORT TO REGULATE BUT PART OF IT IS AN EFFORT TO REGULATE AND IN A SENSE REMOVE THE HOMELESS FROM AN AREA WHERE THE REST OF THE PUBLIC, SO TO SPEAK, IS COMING AND DOESN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED OR PERHAPS IT'S UNSIGHTLY, MAY HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON TOURISM.

SO I THINK THERE ABSOLUTELY IS A CERTAIN ELEMENT OF THAT BECAUSE USUALLY WHEN THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A PROBLEM OR THE PERMITTING IS VERY MINIMAL, IT'S BECAUSE THE HOMELESS ARE MUCH MORE DISBURSED AND YOU HAVE SITUATIONS SIMILAR TO WHAT LUKE DESCRIBED; INDIVIDUALS GIVING OUT FOOD OR TAKING SOMEONE TO GET FOOD.

THAT SORT OF THING.

AND I DO THINK THERE IS A SENSE OF THE ALSO-- AND WE SORT OF HAVE TO DIVIDE THE HOMELESS, I GUESS I'M GOING TO PUT IT THAT WAY, INTO THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRULY HOMELESS INTO THE PANHANDLERS INTO THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS AND PREFER HOMELESSNESS AND I KNOW THAT SOUNDS BIZARRE.

>> IF YOU ARE SUGGESTING IN A WAY THAT BALANCES THE COMPETING INTERESTS BETWEEN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SORT OF THE ESTHETICS OF THE CITY, BUT ALSO THE NEED OF THE HOMELESS.

WE FIND A SIMILAR BALANCING OF INTEREST IN THE NEXT TOPIC THAT WE ARE GOING TO TURN TO.

AS IT TURNS OUT, COVID VACCINE MANDATES ARE COSTING SOME TEACHERS, HEALTHCARE WORKERS, FIRST RESPONDERS, CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, AND EVEN MILITARY PERSONNEL THEIR JOBS.

JUST THIS WEEK, 27 AIR FORCE MEMBERS WERE DISCHARGED FOR REFUSING TO GET VACCINATED.

IN LATE NOVEMBER, DOZENS OF EMPLOYEES AT SYRACUSE, ONEIDA AND OSWEGO HOSPITALS FACED TERMINATION.

AND, WHILE THE VAST MAJORITY OF NEW YORK CITY WORKERS ARE VACCINATED, THOUSANDS CHOSE TO TAKE AN UNPAID LEAVE RATHER THAN GET VACCINATED.

AT ONE POINT IN NOVEMBER, 26 FIRE COMPANIES WERE CLOSED DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGES.

CAUSED BY THE PANDEMIC.

AND STILL NOW ALMOST ONE OUT OF EVERY FIVE NEW YORK CITY FIREFIGHTERS ARE NOT VACCINATED.

TARA, I WANT TO ASK YOU, HOW CONCERNED SHOULD WE BE ABOUT THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF VACCINE MANDATES ON THE FRONTLINES?

>> I THINK WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE CONCERNED.

FIRST THING WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND.

THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS.

WE ARE LEARNING WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE AND WILL CONTINUE TO LEARN.

BUT I THINK WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE CONCERNED BECAUSE THIS IS HAVING A TRULY MAJOR IMPACT ON ALL SORTS OF HEALTHCARE FACILITIES FROM NURSING HOMES TO HOSPITALS E.M.T.S, ET CETERA.

AND WHAT THIS IS MEANING IS THAT THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE TO GO OUT ON CALLS.

THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE IN NURSING HOMES TO ACTUALLY RESPOND TO THE NEEDS OF THOSE IN THE NURSING HOMES.

AND IT'S REALLY PUTTING EMPLOYERS IN THE POSITION OF DECIDING WHAT IS THE WORST THING.

IS IT THAT EMPLOYEES MIGHT COME IN AND MIGHT GIVE COVID AND IT'S VARIATIONS TO A PATIENT?

OR IS IT THAT THERE NO, SIR ONE THERE TO ANSWER THE-- THERE IS NO ONE THERE TO ANSWER THE BUZZER WHEN SOMEONE NEEDS THEM.

AND MANY EMPLOYERS ARE DOING A WINK AND A NOD AT THESE REGULATIONS.

IT'S NOT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO COMPLY.

THEY'RE HAVING TO MAKE THE DECISION I NEED PERSONNEL VERSUS I COMPLY WITH THE MANDATES.

AND IN FACT, ON OR ABOUT OSHA HAS SUSPENDED ENFORCEMENT OF SOME OF THE MANDATES UNTIL THE LITIGATION IS DECIDED.

>> LUKE, CAN I TURN TO YOU AND ASK ABOUT RURAL AREAS IN PARTICULAR THAT ARE ALREADY FACING A SHORTFALL OF BOTH HEALTHCARE WORKERS AND ALSO HOSPITAL SERVICES.

DOES IT SEEM LIKE THE SORTS OF EXEMPTIONS THAT TARA IS TALKING ABOUT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE IN RURAL AREAS?

>> I THINK THEY'RE A BETTER FIT THAN URBAN AREAS, FOR SURE.

I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE SECTOR THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE MILITARY.

AS YOU SAID, THERE ARE VERY HIGH NUMBER OF COMPLIANCE AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO HURT OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AT ALL.

I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT TEACHERS.

THERE ARE SHORT-TERM CHALLENGES WITH THAT WITH TEACHER BEING OUT BUT BEING A TEACHER IS NOT SUCH HIGH DEMAND THAT I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE A PROBLEM FILLING THE POSITIONS.

BUT HEALTHCARE IS AN AREA AND RURAL ISSUES, RUST BELT CITIES LIKE WE LIVE IN ARE CONCERNING.

WHEN HAVE YOU TO BRING NARLG MEDICS TO MAKE SURE HOSPITALS ARE STAFFED, THAT IS A PROBLEM.

>> I AGREE WITH LUKE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN THE EARGS AND DIFFERENCES IN THE DIFFERENCES IN THE DIFFERENT JOB CATEGORIES.

TEACHERS, FOR EXAMPLE, I NOTICE NOW THE TEACHERS UNIONS HAVE BACKED OFF PUSHING FOR-- THAT WAS EARLY ON IN NEW YORK CITY THAT TEACHERS UNIONS WERE PUSHING BACK.

THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE TALKING ABOUT THAT NOW.

AND WHAT I HAVE READ ALSO IN NEW YORK CITY AND ELSEWHERE IS THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO GET INTO TEACHING WHO ARE SUBSTITUTES AND NOW CAN MOVE INTO SOME OF THESE FULL TIME JOBS.

I'M NOT SAYING IT IS NOT A PROBLEM.

THERE ARE SCHOOLS THAT ARE SHORT STAFFED BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS MORE OR LESS TAKING CARE OF ITSELF AND WE KNOW THAT IN MEDICAL FACILITIES, THERE WAS ALREADY A SHORTAGE OF NURSES IN PARTICULAR AND NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE GOING INTO NURSING TRAINING.

SO THIS IS COMPOUNDING IT AND CAUSING MORE OF A PROBLEM THERE, I THINK.

>> "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED THAT U.S. STUDENTS INTO THE PANDEMIC SCHOOL YEAR ARE FOUR TO FIVE MONTHS BEHIND WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN.

CRIME IS RISING ALL OVER IN AMERICA.

RUSSIA AND CHINA ARE REAL SECURITY THREATS AND SO IN THAT KIND OF ENVIRONMENT, YEAH, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE COST AND BENEFITS OF VACCINE MANDATES AND WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES-- VACCINE MANDATES OF FRONT LINE WORKERS AND WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES MIGHT BE.

I'LL CONVENES FESS,-- I'LL CONFESS I HAVE WANING EMPATHY FOR THE UNVEATED AND THOSE-- UNVACCINATED AND THOSE HAD INSIST UPON MANDATES.

FOR THE LATTER GROUP, I WOULD POINT OUT THAT NEARLY EVERY AMERICAN WHO WANTS A VACCINE HAS ACCESS TO THE VACCINE.

THEY HAVE PROTECTION.

MANDATES ARE ABOUT PROTECTING PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PROTECTED.

MAYBE WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF SHIFTING OUR EFFORTS TOWARDS DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

MAYBE THAT WOULD BE BETTER AT PREVENTING MUTATIONS AND SO FORTH.

FOR THE FORMER GROUP, KIND OF TIP MY CAP FOR THEIR APPROPRIATION OF MY BODY MY CHOICE KIND OF ATTITUDES.

THAT SLOGAN, EVEN IF IT IS WRONG, BUT IT'S A LIBERTARIAN PLAN AND SO I'M GOING TO OFFER KIND OF A LIBERTARIAN RESPONSE AND THAT IS THAT WE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COST THAT WE IMPOSE UPON OTHERS, WHICH IN THIS CASE, FOR THE UNVACCINATED MEANS MUCH HIGHER MEDICAL INSURANCE RATES, MUCH HIGHER COSTS OF MEDICAL CARE, AND THAT'S NOT A MANDATE FORCING PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO DO.

THAT LITTLE A CHANGE IN INCENTIVES TO MAKE PEOPLE PAY FOR THEIR ACTIONS OR, IN THIS CASE, THEIR INACTIONS.

>> BUT THINKING ABOUT THE CIVIL LIBERTARIAN PIECE FOR NEW YORK CITY POLICE UNIONS AND FIREFIGHTER UNIONS, THEIR ARGUMENT IN COURT WHICH DIDN'T GO OVER SO WELL, WAS THAT THE CITY DIDN'T PROVIDE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.

WHEN IT WENT TO THE SECOND CIRCUIT, THE SECOND CIRCUIT SAID WELL THERE ISN'T A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION BUT THERE ARE MEANS FOR RELIGIOUS ACCOMMODATIONS.

AND I'M THINKING TO MYSELF, HOW DO AWE COMDATE RELIGIOUS WHEN HAVE YOU TO GO INTO A BURNING BUILDING?

>> ON THAT ISSUE I RETAIN SOME EMPATHY AND SOME SURPRISE, RIGHT?

THE SURPRISE IS THAT THE SUPREME COURT IN RECENT MONTHS, YEARS OR WHATEVER, HAS TAKEN AN INCREASINGLY BROAD INTERPRETATION OF THE FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

YET ON THIS ISSUE, THEY SEEM TO BE SAYING THAT NO, NO, PUBLIC HEALTH IS TRUMPING WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT GORSUCH HAS BEEN VERY VOCAL THAT THIS A RELIGIOUS RIGHTS ISSUE.

>> WE ARE OUT OF TIME AND WE HAVE TO MOVE TO ANOTHER SORT OF PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE AND THAT IS ABORTION.

WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTION LATELY ALL EYES HAVE BEEN ON THE SUPREME COURT AND ITS REVIEW OF STATE LAWS THAT SEVERELY RESTRICT ABORTION RIGHTS.

BUT AS WE WAIT FOR THE COURT TO DECIDE WHETHER TO UPHOLD ROE V. WADE OR NOT, WE SHOULD ALSO CONSIDER SOME OF THE THINGS THAT POLICYMAKERS CAN DO TO NOT JUST RESTRICT ABORTIONS OR ENABLE THEM, BUT TO ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR THEM.

ALMOST HALF OF ALL PREGNANCIES IN THE U.S. ARE UNINTENDED AND UNDER HALF OF THOSE ARE TERMINATED.

AS NEW YORK TIMES OPINION WRITER PUT IT, DECREASE UNINTENDED PREGNANCIES AND YOU DECREASE ABORTIONS.

KRISTI, DO YOU AGREE.

>> OF COURSE.

WE SAW THAT WORK IN COLORADO SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHERE THEY MADE A GOOD EFFORT TO GET GOOD RELIABLE LONG LASTING CONTRACEPTION TO PARTICULARLY AVAILABLE TO YOUNG WOMEN WHO ARE THE MOST, YOU KNOW,PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING THESE UNWANTED BABIES.

AND THIS, OVER SEVERAL YEARS, THIS WAS IN 2016-17, I THINK, OVER A COUPLE OF YEARS, REDUCED TEEN PREGNANCY AND ABORTIONS BY 50% IN COLORADO.

I MEAN IT WAS HUGELY SUCCESSFUL.

SO BASICALLY IF YOU CAN PROVIDE EASILY AVAILABLE INEXPENSIVE CONTRACEPTION AND SEX EDUCATION TO YOUNG PEOPLE, YOU WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS.

NOW THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST ABORTIONS ARE ALSO OFTEN AGAINST CONTRACEPTION.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT IN THE PUSHBACK TO AFFORDABLE CARE ACT,.

>> HOBBY LOBBY CASE.

>> EXACTLY.

SO MOST ANTIABORTION GROUPS ARE NOT ONLY ARE THEY NOT IN FAVOR OF ACCESS TO THE EFFECTIVE CONTRACEPTION.

MANY ARE ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO THEM AND THEY'RE ALSO OPPOSED, I WOULD SAY, I WOULD ADD TO GOOD SEX EDUCATION IN HIGH SCHOOLS.

, THAT IS, THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT ABSTINENCE AND I THINK 39 STATES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT NOW REQUIRE THAT THAT BE THE CENTER PART.

THAT DOESN'T WORK.

>> THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.

BUT TARA, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE ISSUES IS-- AND IT GETS AT WHAT KRISTI WAS SAYING IS THAT CONTRACEPTION AND ABORTION ARE CONSIDERED FRUITS OF THE SAME POISON TREE.

AND PART OF THE ISSUE FOR ANTIABORTION ADVOCATES IS IN TERMS OF THE CONNECTION WITH CONTRACEPTION IS THAT ONCE YOU START TEACHING ABOUT CONTRACEPTION, ONCE YOU TEACH SEX ED, GOOD CONTRACEPTION AND GOOD SEX ED, BASICALLY YOU ARE ON THE ROAD TO REMOVING THE NOTION THAT SEX IS SUPPOSED TO BE BASICALLY FOR PROCEED CREATION PROCREATION WHICH COMES FROM THE BIBLE AND THERE IS A REAL CONCERN THAT THE MORE YOU PUT THE EMPHASIS ON THE FRONT END, YOU MAKE THE ABORTION PART OF IT THAT MUCH EASIER BECAUSE YOU HAVE DISCONNECTED IT FROM THE HUMANITY OF IT.

SO THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUE.

BUT I THINK THE OTHER ISSUE, AND THIS IS THE MORE PRACTICAL ISSUE THERE, IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF HOW WE TALK ABOUT CONTRACEPTION AND GOOD CONTRACEPTION, TO REALLY BE EFFECTIVE WITH IT, WE NEED TO TAKE IT OUT OF PREDOMINANTLY A FEMALE ISSUE.

NOW WE ALL KNOW IT SHOULDN'T BE.

BUT TO REALLY MAKE IT EFFECTIVE, YOU NEED TO HAVE THE GOOD SEX EDUCATION AND YOU NEED TO MAKE A TWO FOLD THING.

MALE AND FEMALE EQUALLY AND IF YOU MAKE IT MALE AND FEMALE EQUALLY, THEN YOU ARE TRULY BEING EFFECTIVE.

>> BUT CHAD, I WONDER IF THAT'S A DIFFICULT THING BECAUSE OF THE COMPETING INTERESTS OF CATHOLIC HOSPITALS THAT DON'T EVEN SUPPORT THE USE OF CONTRACEPTION.

DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT OR DID YOU WANT TO SHARE SOMETHING ELSE?

>> I'M INTERNALLY LAUGHING BECAUSE IT'S MY FIRST TO THE FIRST SEGMENT WAS TOO CATHOLIC AND TOO ECONOMIC.

WHERE AM I GOING TO GO ON THIS ONE?

>> THAT'S WHY I ASKED.

[LAUGHTER] >> I THINK FUNDAMENTALLY YOU ARE ASKING A SUPPLY AND DEMAND QUESTION.

AND ONE THAT SORT OF RECALLS BILL CLINTON'S 1992 DECLARATION THAT ABORTION SHOULD BE SAFE, LEGAL AND RARE.

RARE BEING THE KEY WORD HERE.

AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE SHARE AN INTEREST IN REDUCING THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS.

SO DO YOU DO THAT BY RESTRICTING SUPPLY, WHICH IS WHAT PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT GENERALLY WANTS AND IT HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE BUT CARRIES WITH IT SOME PRETTY NASTY CONSEQUENCES-- UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES LIKE 34% RISE IN TEEN PREGNANCY, 30 TO 40% INCREASE IN MATERNITY TERM-- MATERNAL MORTALITY OF BLACK WOMEN, CHILD NEGLECT AND SO FORTH.

BROOKINGS INSTITUTE HAS A REPORT ON THIS IF YOU WANT TO READ IT.

>> SO JUST BECAUSE I WANT TO HEAR FROM LUKE, YOU HAVE GIVEN US A LOT TO CHEW ON.

LUKE, YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> WELL, ONE THING I THINK IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING IN TERMS OF REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS BEING LIMITED CONSTITUTIONALLY IS THAT WE CAN SEE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN OTHER WAYS DO THINGS TO PROMOTE REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

YESTERDAY THE FDA WAVED PERMANENTLY THE REQUIREMENT THAT MEDICAID-- MEDICATED ABORTIONS HAS TO BE DONE IN PERSON.

THAT IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER DIMENSION OF THIS.

>> I SEE THAT WE COULD GO ON WITH THIS SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A PART TWO FOR SURE BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE TO GO TO As AND Fs SO WE ARE GOING TO START CHRYSTY WITH YOU.

>> MY F GOES TO SENATOR RON JOHNSON REPUBLICAN SENATOR FROM WISCONSIN, UNVACCINATED, DOESN'T LIKE MASK MANDATES BUT HE CAN SOLVE THE COVID PROBLEM.

AT TOWN HALL THIS WEEK HE SAID A STANDARD GARGLE OF MOUTH WASH HAS BEEN PROVEN TO KILL THE CORONAVIRUS.

THE MOUTH WASH COMPANIES DISAGREE.

>> AND SO I THINK NEXT WE ARE GOING TO LUKE.

>> MY F TO GOOGLE FOR NOT ADHERING TO ITS PLEDGE TO REMOVE ADS WITH CLIMATE MISINFORMATION.

NEW RESEARCH THIS WEEK INDICATED THAT DOZENS OF THESE ADS STILL PERSIST ON GOOGLE PLATFORMS.

>> AND NEXT, CHAD.

>> I'M GOING TO CALL AN AUTOMOBILE BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE LUKE'S LAST COMMENT SO I'M GOING TO GIVE MY F TO THE FDA NOW.

I WANT TO EXPRESS A CONCERN.

THEY'VE MADE-- THEY'VE RESPONDED POLITICALLY TO A POLITICAL ISSUE AND WE ARE AT A TIME RIGHT NOW WITH COVID THAT THE SORT OF POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS OF FDA DECISIONS ARE KIND OF WORRISOME IN A WAY THAT PEOPLE MIGHT REACT TO THAT.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

TARA.

>> MY F GOES TO FOX NEWS COMMENTATOR LAURA INGRAHAM FOR SAYING SOME COLLEGES SUCH AS CORNELL UNIVERSITY PREFER THINGS THE WAY THEY WERE AT THE START OF THE PANDEMIC WHEN CAMPUSES CLOSED AND EVERYONE WENT TO VIRTUAL LEARNING.

SHE INFERRED THAT THAT IS WHY MANY SCHOOLS ARE SHUTTING DOWN CAMPUSES IN AN EFFORT TO STEM THE SPREAD OF THE OMICRON VARIANT.

SHE HOWEVER NEVER MENTIONED THAT PART OF THE IDEA IS THAT THESE STUDENTS WON'T TAKE THE OMICRON VARIANT HOME TO THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS.

>> INTERESTING.

AND COULD I PIGGY BACK ON THAT ALSO AND GIVE AN F TO THE DEPARTURE OF CHRIS WALLACE FROM FOX NEWS WHO WAS ALWAYS A STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE GUY.

AND NOW WE ARE GOING TURN TO As.

BEGINNING BEGIN AGAIN WITH YOU CHRYST AGREE 10 MILLION LEAD PIPES GOING TO HOMES AND BUSINESSES AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION'S PLAN TO FINALLY GET RID OF THEM VIA E.P.A.

STANDARDS THAT WOULD REQUIRE UTILITIES TO DIG UP AND REPLACE LEAD LINES AN END THE DANGEROUS IMPACTS OF LEAD IN OUR DRINKING WATER.

>> LUKE.

>> MY A GOES TO J.R. SMITH ACCOMPLISHED AND TROAFL FORMER NBA BASKETBALL PLAYER.

IN RETIREMENT THIS FALL, Mr. SMITH WENT TO COLLEGE AND RECENTLY SHARED WITH LIST FANS THAT HE EARNED STRAIGHT As IN HIS FIRST SMESER.

>> WOW Mr. SMITH WENT TO COLLEGE.

MAYBE HE'LL GO TO WASHINGTON NEXT.

>> CHAD.

>> I STRUGGLE TO COME UP WITH As EVERY WEEK PROBABLY BECAUSE I'M WAY TOO NEGATIVE.

THEN I CAME ACROSS THIS HEADLINES FILED UNDER CNBC GOOD NEWS SECTION WHICH IS BEHAVIORAL EXPERTS SAY OPTIMISM COULD BE UNHELPFUL IN A PANDEMIC.

AND I FIGURED THAT IS GOOD NEWS THEN I'M IN GOLDEN SHAPE.

THANK YOU CNBC.

YOU GET MY A.

>> CHAD, WE GOT TO TALK.

>> ANY TIME.

>> WE NEED TO PARTY A LITTLE BIT MORE IN OUR DEPARTMENT AND TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO THE PEOPLE INSIDE AND OUTSIDE OF KENTUCKY WHO DIDN'T WAIT FOR FEMA TO SHOW UP TO PROVIDE DISASTER RELIEF FOR THE KENTUCKIANS AND OTHERS.

LIKE THE TENNESSEE RESTAURANT OWNER JIMMY FINCH WHO DROVE ALL NIGHT IN ORDER TO FEED KENTUCKIANS AND THE DISASTER RELIEF WORKERS OR THE VIETNAM VETERANS SEAN TRIP DELETE WHO USED SOCIAL MEDIA TO RAISE FUNDING TO PROVIDE A CHRISTMAS FOR CHILDREN IN MAYFIELD, KENTUCKY.

ALL OF THOSE HELPING TO REMIND US OF THE TRUE SPIRIT OF CHRISTMAS.

>> ISN'T IT REMARKABLE THAT IT DOES.

AND LET'S JUST HOPE THAT NO CITY WILL, AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, REQUIRE THAT THEY HAVE PERMITS IN ORDER TO GO TO THESE DISASTER AREAS IN ORDER TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE IN NEED.

THAT WRAPS IT UP FOR US TODAY.

WE ARE SO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION WITH YOU.

PLEASE WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

WE ACTUALLY DO READ YOUR EMAILS AND WE ALL DISCUSS THEM.

TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, GO TO PNS.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT IVORY GOOD NIGHT.