[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're joined once again by our good friend down in South Jersey, Dr. Ben Dworkin, director of the Rowan Institute for Public Policy and Citizenship, Rowan, one of our higher ed partners.

Good to see you, Ben.

- Good to see you, Steve.

Thanks so much for having me on.

- Hey, Ben, can we do this?

The graphic will come up right away, Democracy in Danger.

Why the heck do you think so many people don't trust the outcome of an election and think it's rigged?

Not a hard question, right, Ben?

- Look, I think there are a lot of reasons.

I mean, among the biggest ones is that all the incentives it seems for both politicians and certain elements of the media are geared towards dividing.

They're geared towards a quick-paced, very increasingly, very speed-oriented.

Things have to be faster and faster, and you have to keep people's attention because they move away.

And I think politicians have found that they raise money, they get elected if they question the system.

And there are folks in the media who have made billions doing that exact same thing, exploiting those kinds of divisions.

And when you hear over and over again that the system can't be trusted, then you are ready to question even the outcomes of an election.

Despite all the investigations, despite all of assurances that might have been given, nobody can be trusted, and therefore the outcome can't be trusted.

It's a very unfortunate situation, obviously.

- So as you're promoting citizenship and understanding of public policy down at Rowan, at the Institute for Public Policy and Citizenship, what is your sense from most young people, college students you interact with, as it relates to their view of, let's talk about this presidential election.

Do you believe that more young people will actively participate and vote this year or not?

- As compared to four years ago?

- Say four years ago, eight years ago.

Do you think more will participate?

- It's unclear.

Probably not, because neither candidate, as we've seen in polling, and this is not just for younger voters, say, under the age of 29 or under the age of 24, but across all age demographics, a lot of people aren't particularly inspired by either candidate.

You know, presidential elections are about the future, and Donald Trump very much wants to talk about the past and his grievances.

And Joe Biden, simply because of how he looks physically, becomes a very difficult avatar to use to talk about the future.

And I think, you know, for both of those reasons, we're having a hard time inspiring people despite the tremendously high stakes in this election.

- President Biden, 81 right now, will be, if elected, 86 on the backend.

President Trump, as we do this program, just turned 78.

But age is a relative things, and people present differently at different, at certain ages, and it's not all the same.

And a lot of this is a question of perception, Professor.

Is that fair to say?

- Absolutely.

It's how we look at people.

And it's hard.

There are lots of people who understand.

We know other 81-year-olds, we know other 78-year-olds.

We work with them, they are colleagues, and they do a fine job, and these guys are gonna have to present themselves.

But the question about whether are people going to be inspired in a positive way to rally around either of these two candidates, when you're talking about the younger generation, that's gonna be hard to come by.

-The Open Public Records Act, otherwise known as OPRA, it has been changed significantly based on a law that was passed or a bill that was passed, signed into law by Governor Murphy.

There are some who have argued that it is less transparent, that it's gonna be harder for citizens, others to get access to government information or information about government actions, activities, emails, memos, et cetera, fiscal details.

Do you believe it was a mistake on the part of the governor to sign that bill, Professor?

- I don't know- - Or the implications of what happened?

- Yeah, I think it's too early to say whether it was a mistake, both from a policy perspective and a political perspective, but I can say this.

I think this is one of those issues that Trenton sometimes think the public isn't paying attention, but come election time, they will.

Openness in government record-keeping, the ability to find out what your government is doing, especially in a world in which people are less trusting of government, is not something that should be restricted.

That there were plenty of policy reasons.

The proponents of the reforms for the Open Public Records Act said, "We need to make these changes.

We need to update things."

There were abuses that were being faced.

But when you start closing off abuses, you also close off opportunities for very legitimate inquiring by the public, by members of the media that have yielded tremendous fruit in terms of understanding what is going on.

So I think the public understands the issue.

I imagine that come 2025, and we have our legislative elections as well as a gubernatorial election, reforming OPRA is gonna be a major issue and certainly an attack line that folks who are challenging incumbents who supported the bill are gonna be using and using effectively because the public basically gets it.

- In that spirit of disclosure, I just wanna reiterate that Rowan University is a higher ed partner of ours, an underwriter of our programming, to make sure we fully disclose because it's not just important for government, it's important for media as well.

Real quick on this, Ben.

2025, we're doing all these interviews, policy-oriented conversations with every candidate for governor.

Top two or three policy issues that you think, beyond this transparency issue with OPRA you just talked about, what are the policy issues that you believe will matter most to voters in 2025, please?

In the state.

- Sure.

Number one, far and away, is going to be affordability.

Writ large, that is it.

Now, under the issue of affordability, comes a lot of different things.

We're talking about property taxes, which, in terms of specific issues, is higher than any one else.

Almost 40% of the public says that property taxes are their number one issue, and this is very consistent with the kinds of polling that we've seen for decades.

- And state funding?

State funding of local schools will matter as well?

- Well, that relates to state funding of local schools.

- Affordability.

- Becomes part of affordability.

Exactly.

When the state is subsidizing your property taxes, you don't pay as much for your schools because the state is kicking in money.

So how much the state is kicking in and how that formula gets, how that money gets distributed will be a key issue in making your life affordable.

- Professor Ben Dworkin helps us understand a whole range of public policy issues.

He's the director of the Rowan Institute for Public Policy and Citizenship.

Ben, as always, thank you, my friend.

- Thank you so much, Steve.

- I'm Steve Adubato, that's Professor Dworkin.

We thank you so much for watching, and see you next time.

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