>> FRANKLIN, YOUR BOOK IS ALREADY BEING GOBBLED UP FOR THE ACCESS YOU HAVE HAD, THE FACT IT IS BEING DESCRIBED AS THE FIRST DEEP DIVE INTO THIS PRESIDENCY.

YOU CALL IT "THE LAST POLITICIAN".

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, CALLING JOE BIDEN THE LAST POLITICIAN?

>> WE LIVE IN AN AGE OF ANTIPOLITICS.

AND OBAMA, RAN AGAINST THE SYSTEM, THEY WERE OUTSIDERS AND PROUD OF THAT FACT.

THEY REMOUNTED WASHINGTON.

JOE BIDEN IS NOTHING, IF NOT A CREATURE OF WASHINGTON.

HIS THEORY OF THE CASE IS THAT IN ORDER TO SAVE DEMOCRACY FROM THE DOMESTIC THREATS OF AUTHORITARIANISM, AND IN ORDER TO PROVE DEMOCRACY IS WORTH ITS COMPETITORS ABROAD, HE NEEDS TO SHOW THAT DEMOCRACY CAN STILL DELIVER FOR ITS CITIZENS.

IN EFFECT, HE IS TRYING TO SHOW THAT A POLITICIAN AND POLITICS IN THIS PRACTICE THAT WE HAVE FROM MEDIATING OUR DIFFERENCES OF OPINION IS STILL THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY OF RUNNING A COUNTRY.

THERE WERE TIMES IN THE COURSE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, WHEN NOBODY IN WASHINGTON, NOBODY IN THE COUNTRY AT THAT MOMENT, SEEMED AS IF THEY HAD SHARED HIS FAITH IN POLITICS.

IT LOOKED LIKE HE WAS HEADED, AT VARIOUS MOMENTS, TO A JIMMY CARTER PRESIDENCY.

ONE OF THE REMARKABLE THINGS ABOUT JOE BIDEN IS THAT HE IS A CREATURE OF COMEBACKS.

SO, EVERY TIME EVERYBODY WRITES FIND A WAY TO ARRIVE AT HIS GREATEST SUCCESS.

>> OKAY, SO YOU SET ME UP PERFECTLY, BECAUSE YOU ALMOST WROTE HIM OFF.

YOU ACTUALLY SAID, I VIEWED HIM AS A BLOVIATING HER DANGEROUSLY FETISHES BIPARTISANSHIP, BUT YOU ALSO SAY THE UNDERESTIMATION OF BIDEN WAS HIS DIESEL, IN OTHER WORDS, HIS SUPERPOWER.

SO, WHAT IS IT, THAT SOMEONE EVEN LIKE YOU, WHO IS DOING THE DEEP DIVE, YOU KNOW, PRACTICALLY BLEW HIM OFF AT THE BEGINNING?

>> IT IS NOT EVEN JUST THE BEGINNING.

I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A VERY YOUNG REPORTER, I WAS 24, I GOT MY FIRST PHONE CALL WITH JOE BIDEN, WHICH FELT LIKE A MOMENTOUS OCCASION, BECAUSE HE HAD RUN FOR PRESIDENT, HE WAS CHAIRMAN OF THESE SENATE COMMITTEES, AND FIVE MINUTES INTO THE CALL I WAS LIKE, OH, MY GOD, THIS GUY TO GET OFF THE PHONE.

THE WAY THAT HE TALKS, WITH THE FOLKSY ANTIDOTES, THE STORIES THAT HE TELLS OVER AND OVER AGAIN, I THINK AMONG THE ELITES OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WHO ALL WENT TO IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS, WHO ALL WENT TO PRIDE THEMSELVES ON THEIR TECHNOCRATIC EXPERTISE, TEND TO LOOK DOWN ON JOE BIDEN AS SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

BIDEN IS A ACUTELY AWARE OF THE FACT THAT HE IS AN OUTLIER AMONG THE ELITES.

SO, SIMULTANEOUSLY, HE CRAVES THE AFFECTION AND ADMIRATION, BUT HE ALSO LOOKS AT THEM WITH A BIT OF DISDAIN, THAT HE THINKS THEY CAN BE LAZY, THEY CAN BE HIGH DOWN IN THEIR THINKING.

THAT CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER AND ELEMENT OF SOCIAL CLASS, I THINK HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE ESSENTIAL KEY TO UNLOCKING JOE BIDEN.

>> IT APPEARS THAT WALL STREET JOURNAL SAYS 73% OF VOTERS SAY JOE BIDEN IS TOO OLD TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

THIS IS BIDEN, AT PHILADELPHIA, ON LABOR DAY, ADDRESSING THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

LET ME JUST PLAY IT.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT BIDEN, SHE IS GETTING OLD, MAN.

I WILL TELL YOU WHAT.

WELL, GUESS WHAT?

GUESS WHAT?

THE ONLY THING THAT COMES WITH I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS LONGER THAN ANYBODY, AND GUESS WHAT?

I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO IT, WITH YOUR HELP.

>> SO, WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT?

AND DID YOU TALK TO HIM, ALL OF HIS, YOU KNOW, CLOSEST ABOUT THAT ISSUE?

HE WILL BE THE ONLY PRESIDENT, OR IS, TO HAVE TURNED 80 IN OFFICE, AND HE WILL BE 86, COMPLETING A SECOND TERM.

DOES HE THINK IT IS A PROBLEM?

>> I THINK THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE PUBLIC BIDEN AND PRIVATE BIDEN ON THIS IS PRETTY MUCH NEGLIGIBLE.

I HAVE THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT THIS AGE QUESTION AND THE WAY IN WHICH WE ARE NOT ABLE TO TREAT IT WITH ANY SORT OF NUANCE.

I THINK ANYBODY HAS AGING RELATIVES, AND EVERYBODY BRINGS THEIR OWN PERSONAL BAGGAGE ABOUT AGING TO THIS QUESTION.

IT SHOULD BE SAID THAT INDIVIDUALS AGE IN DIFFERENT SORTS OF WAYS.

WE HAVE THE EXAMPLE OF DIANE FEINSTEIN, THE SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA, WHO GENUINELY APPEARS UNABLE TO DO BASIC OF AGE AND ILLNESS.

>> AND MAYBE EVEN MITCH McCONNELL, THE MINORITY LEADER IN THE SENATE.

>> PERHAPS.

AND THEN, YOU HAVE THE EXAMPLE OF SOMEBODY LIKE JOE BIDEN.

YOU LOOK AT THE WAY HE STROLLS THE STAGE, IT IS CLEAR HE HAS AGED.

YOU LISTEN TO THE WAY THAT HE TALKS, HE DOESN'T TALK IN THE SAME SORT OF REGISTER THAT HE DID WHEN HE WAS 10 YEARS AGO.

BUT, I ALSO -- SO, I HAVE SEEN CONVERSATIONS WITH JOE BIDEN, I HAVE SEEN THE WAY IN WHICH BOTH PARTS ARE TRUE.

I HAVE SEEN HIM TELL STORIES THAT GO ON A LITTLE BIT LONG, AND WHERE HE GETS A LITTLE BIT LOST IN THE STORY --WHICH, MAYBE JOE BIDEN ALWAYS DID.

I MEAN, THAT IS ONE OF THE RAPS ON THE GUY.

BUT, I HAVE ALSO SEEN HOW HE TURNS IT AROUND, AND A SECOND LATER, HE IS GIVING A COMMANDING DESCRIPTION OF AMERICAN GRAND STRATEGY IN THE INDO PACIFIC, FILLED WITH ALL SORTS OF INDIVIDUAL, PRECISE DETAILS, AND COMPLICATED PLANS, AND NUANCED THOUGHTS.

HE IS OLD, AND HIS AGE HAS BROUGHT WISDOM, AND I THINK WE REALLY STRUGGLE, CULTURALLY, TO FIND THE RIGHT WAY TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS IMPORTANT PART OF WHO HE IS.