>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson co-hosting this hour with my colleague Racquel Stephen.

>> Hey, we're co-hosting this hour.

I should have alerted the engineers.

It's nice to see you.

>> Racquel Stephen and I ConXion this hour was made at Lincoln University in the late 1920s.

As we discussed on this program on Monday, a young lawyer at the time named Thurgood Marshall, well, a lawyer to be, I should say he was attending Lincoln, which is an HBCU, a historically black college or university.

Marshall excelled in debate and reasoning, and he'd go on to another HBCU, Howard University, where he studied law.

You probably know that Thurgood Marshall would go on to have a stellar legal career.

He won 29 of 32 civil rights cases that went to the U.S. Supreme Court, and that was before Marshall himself would be selected for the High Court, the first African American on the country's highest court.

Marshall spent his life praising his education and how it prepared him for a career that eventually made him the first black Supreme Court justice.

>> Oh, pass it on to me.

Evan.

Today, HBCUs are still educating thousands of students every year.

They produce nearly 20% of black graduates from American colleges and universities, and roughly 25% of black graduates in Stem fields.

And because HBCUs are less expensive than the average school, they attract a high number of first time college attendees.

According to several studies, HBCUs are on average nearly 30% less expensive.

Public media has been examining the impact of HBCUs all week, and this hour we'll talk about why students are still choosing HBCUs.

I didn't get to go, so I'm kind of interested to hear this.

And whether they're the first in their family to attend college or whether they have a long list of other options.

>> Yeah, I think some of the feedback from listeners on Monday had a little bit of confusion.

I mean, HBCUs attract, of course, first time attendees, but absolutely, students who have a long list of options and choose HBCUs.

Two of our guests this hour are HBCU graduates.

Hello to Shirley Green, Commissioner of the Department of Recreation and Human Services for the City of Rochester.

Graduate of Delaware State.

>> Yes, Delaware State University in Dover, Delaware.

>> Thank you for being with us.

Nice to see you here.

Across the table from Shirley.

Welcome to Kearstin Pipe-Brown, who is a vocal artist, host of at WXXI classical 91 five, graduate of Spelman College.

>> Yes.

Thy name.

We praise Hotlanta.

>> Represent Hotlanta and Seanelle Hawkins is president and CEO of the Urban League of Rochester.

Now, Shawn L did not attend an HBCU, but the Urban League runs the Black Scholars Program, part of which arranges visits to HBCUs for students.

It's nice to see you here.

>> Good to be here.

>> Do you know anybody who was a black scholar?

>> There are thousands of black scholars, but I'm honored to sit at this table right in this room.

Dr. green, who is a black scholar and a champion for black scholars.

>> Absolutely.

I'm a proud I don't want to watch.

>> The year.

>> Do you have any say that?

>> Even though you're looking, you know, like you were just last year, but.

>> Graduate of Edison Tech, 1983.

>> Wow.

And this represents 46 years of black scholars that we've been highlighting, highlighting black scholars at the Urban League.

We've been celebrating the accomplishments.

And I have to give credit where credit is due.

This was the brainchild of our former mayor, Mayor Johnson, who was, for those that don't know, was the CEO of the Urban League for over 20 something years.

In fact, we've been celebrating our 60th anniversary this year.

So there's been three leaders that have led the the Urban League.

But we still all maintain that following.

And supporting our black scholars is the work, and we must prioritize that.

At the Urban League.

>> And there's some some events coming up later this month before we jump in and have our guests talk a little bit about their background with HBCUs on the 25th and on the 27th.

What's coming up later just this month?

Shirley.

>> So we will be the city is part of hosting the HBCU classic, and on Thursday, September 25th from 930 to 2, we will be at the Blue Cross Arena with over 25 HBCU colleges and universities here in Rochester, and then on Saturday we will be hosting the annual classic football game between Central State and Lane College, and that will be held at the Rochester Sports Complex on Oak Street.

>> That's the.

So that's on the 27th, the college fair on the 25th.

We'll put a link in our show notes for details.

If listeners want to check them out, make plans to go to one or both of these events.

>> Absolutely.

And we are looking to have about 1500 11th and 12th graders coming through the Blue Cross Arena on Thursday the 25th.

>> Wow.

>> So, Raquel, how much do you think the average listener knows about HBCUs?

If they didn't attend that?

>> It's just black colleges.

I didn't get to attend HBCU.

I did get accepted to Howard and I chose to go to University of Rochester instead.

because I just came here and I was like, oh, I love it here.

This feeling that you get.

But the the passion and the spirit that's in individuals that attended HBCUs is something that I am so envious of.

I'm not even jealous.

>> I agree.

>> I agree.

>> I am envious, I felt like I missed a whole chapter of being a black woman.

>> mm-hmm.

>> Well, so let's let Shirley pick that up and then we'll and then we'll hear.

from accurate.

Well yeah.

Because Shirley you went to Delaware State.

>> What was that like.

>> Yes.

That's accurate.

>> well thank you.

>> And take away my black.

>> Card.

>> You know, it was an experience that I don't think I would have had going to a different university.

University?

I became aware of my blackness.

This was the first time that I even had a choice to take African American history classes.

it was not taught when I went to school, and so going to an HBCU just opened up a world of experience that I had not been exposed to previously.

And yes, Rochester's fantastic, but going to an HBCU makes you an even better Rochesterian.

>> You're killing Raquel here.

>> Wow.

>> I would love for you to elaborate on that.

How does that make you a better rochesterian?

>> So, as I mentioned, growing up here in Rochester, there were a lot of things happening in Rochester.

You think about the riots of 64 and all those.

I didn't even learn about those until later in life.

And so even things that were happening here in Rochester was not being taught to us as African.

And so to learn my own history of Rochester took me to another space.

and still today, I don't think we do justice to our young people to teach them about civil rights right here in Rochester.

And it takes you going to a black college to want to learn.

So when I got there and I took my first course in African American studies, when I came home, I wanted to know about my own place.

And so then I had to do my own research to learn about where I lived and where I grew up, because it's it's not taught here.

And had I not been at Delaware State, I probably would not have wanted to dig deep into that.

>> Wow.

>> That remarkable.

>> And so one thing that comes to mind for me, hearing your story about education, about what you're taught and not taught.

So you were born right around the time of the 64 riots.

You dated yourself.

>> High school.

I promise we can't tell.

>> There's a reason I'm bringing up the date.

>> you know, you're growing up at a time where that was still fresh in our city.

>> Yes.

>> And you're still not being taught it in schools.

And on top of that, we see all kinds of evidence that students in Monroe County say nothing about just Rochester, but Monroe County aren't aware that post, Brown v board post integration efforts.

I live in Shallotte you drive past the cemeteries on both sides.

This is not apocryphal.

There's documentation that white people stood crouched behind those walls and threw rocks at busses that were carrying black kids to be integrated into schools, and that's a that's a part of our history right here.

It wasn't just little Rock, it wasn't just one community in the South.

There was a struggle for integration.

There was white backlash.

But that often still isn't taught.

So do you think that's ignorance, or do you think that's choice?

>> I think it's choice.

I think people sometimes are afraid of peeling back the onion and letting people know what happened.

And so even in school systems right now, we talk about the fact that some people don't want it taught.

And so when you hear that people are okay with not letting it be taught, it gives them permission not to teach it.

>> It's interesting you talk about that because I think it's so important why civil rights organizations like Urban League are critical because we we prioritize civil rights.

We were born out of the 1964 riots.

We were born in 65.

And we thank people like, doctor, oh, my goodness.

Oh, we thank Dr. Cooper.

I almost forgot his name.

>> Dr. Walter.

>> Cooper, doctor Walter Cooper, human Google.

Right.

Dr. Cooper.

Miss Constance, all of those that prioritize making sure that we created access.

And that's what it became.

Making sure that black communities had access to education, access to a pathway for good jobs.

And that's why the Urban League continues today.

So we continue to educate.

And so I appreciate the the black, the HBCU experience.

And we make sure that we send students on tours so that they have not just the black universities, but also primarily white universities, but give them a choice and so that they can experience what it feels like to be at an HBCU.

Last year, we took a group probably about a 50 or 60 kids, and took them on tours, and 20% of them selected to go to an HBCU and have been proud of that experience.

Our group of black scholars this year, over 1300 youth.

We celebrated this Urban league.

Black scholars, many of them chose that pathway.

and so it's important that the Urban League creates opportunities for access, and that's what we continue to do.

So I love hearing, you know, that you continue to champion the black experience in the.

And I did not go to an HBCU.

And I went to when I think about my experience in the community college, I went to Herkimer.

I don't know if anyone knows what Herkimer is, but Herkimer Community College, where they have a KKK house, very, prevalent there.

And there was only about 20 something students and we were all basically from New York City.

There was a few from Utica, New York, and we had to come together because we needed a place of belonging.

We needed to understand what was happening.

I remember being in a supermarket and someone said, oh, she's black.

>> Mm mm.

>> And so I can't imagine having the support of having black teachers around me.

So those small groups of us, we formed a, a black student union.

We made sure that we had access to services and opportunities, but we had to champion that advocacy.

And I guess that's why I'm, you know, at the Urban League, having that voice of advocate.

We had to do that for ourselves because we didn't have that experience.

And we were in a primarily white institution.

>> So, Raquel, for me, like the classic story growing up in like a predominantly white school was I didn't hear about redlining until I was almost 30.

Right.

Other things that, as you've grown up, whether it's, you know, riots in a community, whether it's, you know, the bombing of Black Wall Street, whether it's, you know, various issues of white backlash to integration, et cetera., are there things that, as an adult that you look back and say, well, how come I didn't know this?

>> So like, my upbringing is a little different because I grew up in the islands, right?

I grew up in the Virgin Islands.

so U.S. history wasn't something that we were taught, but it wasn't something that we really focused on.

because in a small community, we, we keep it just focused on what what happened within the islands and why we, we were a certain way and who created who established our foundations.

We have our own history.

so when I came here and I went to the U of R, I grew up in private school.

I was in private school all my life.

So being the minority wasn't something unusual to me.

It was actually comfortable because I grew up the minority.

I went to private school, predominantly white school.

so I missed.

I always wonder what would it feel like to be the majority?

And being in a setting where you are the majority and everyone looks like you, right.

And but then how do you stand out in that setting?

So learning about riots here was it was I can't say it really affected me because I was worried about my Caribbean history.

>> I'd love to speak.

On being the minority and going to a majority.

I grew up as a minority in my school district.

I'm from Fairfax County, Virginia, not from Rochester, and it was that experience I had with the microaggressions, with the racism, with the bigotry that led me to an HBCU and ironically, you know, doing some research about HBCUs in general.

Two words inclusivity and equity.

And not for black folks, but for everyone.

Howard University's first students were five white women, and they were the founder of the daughters of the founders.

They could not get into other schools around the DC area, so they enrolled at Howard University.

So five white women, the first students at Howard.

Also, when you look at many of the jobs that were offered to a lot of Jewish professors fleeing Nazi Germany, they were denied positions at many predominantly white schools who took them in, HBCUs took them in, I think, Howard University, North Carolina Central, Tougaloo College, these are some of the more predominant places where a lot of you know, Eastern European or even just German, you know, these thinkers came out of and these were places HBCUs were places for everyone.

HBCUs have had white valedictorians, you know, it's just a student class presidents.

What?

I was in school, it's just like it was a place where, you know, come one and all.

But I will say, for me, it was a place that I needed to be.

Spelman College.

I was even, I guess, told that I shouldn't go to an HBCU because it's not a representation of the real world world.

>> Right.

>> Where are you going to go?

Why are you going to go to an all black women's institution like that?

And then where are you going to do after that?

Well, I look at me like I do a lot of things now.

I feel I felt so prepared coming out.

And like I said, I came in a little bit broken and I feel like that's what we saw with the uptick of HBCU enrollment post the murder of George Floyd, specifically all around, there are so many HBCUs that cannot even accept all the students that are now looking for that safe haven, looking for that safe space, and even today, opening up the news, we're finding that HBCUs are on lockdown today.

>> Yeah, I'm just going to read this.

report that was just handed to me.

Three historically black colleges and universities on lockdown for terroristic threats.

they've gone into lockdown that were directed at their campus.

According to local reports, they include Alabama State University, Hampton University and Virginia State University.

They locked down this morning after unspecified threats were made against all three campuses.

Virginia State shared an urgent alert at 830 this morning to declaring the campus closed and advising students, faculty and staff to check their emails.

And Alabama State told USA today in a statement it received terrorist threats and that it had shut down campus operations out of an abundance of caution.

It's a developing story.

That's what's going on, literally, right?

>> Spelman College is also, has shut has locked down the campus and many campuses in around the country are doing that.

HBCUs, out of an abundance of caution.

>> I, I yeah, I mean, it's such an awful thing to be inserting into the middle of the day, but that's literally what's happening right now.

Yeah.

when you first arrived on campus, when you were going to school, did you feel like this is not going to prepare me for the real world, or do you feel like, boy, this is this is what I need?

>> I felt like a big old hug.

First of all, it was hot, as I don't know what.

Imagine Atlanta, Georgia in August and my dorm is on the second floor.

I'm wearing my dorm shirt.

Howard Harold Hall Spelman College, and there's no AC.

I don't think I realized the magnitude of not having air conditioning in August in Georgia.

So part of me was like, why?

But, you know, I stay put the put the fan in the window and just, you know, roommate and I just made the best of it.

But it did feel like a really big hug, you know, at Spelman, you're from students from all around the country.

All around the world, really.

Some of my best friends from different parts of the world went to Spelman with me, and we all were able to learn together, be inspired by our professors, our professors coming from all around the world, as well.

in one space, they call it, you know, Black Girl, Magic Central.

And it really was the best investment ever.

I got scholarships to every school I applied to except Spelman.

And I was like, I'm going to take out some loans.

>> And so did you apply to all HBCUs or or.

>> I did like 50 over 50.

I did, yeah, I did half HBCUs, half Pwi's, predominantly white institutions and decided that my mother and I went down to Spelman together, senior year in April.

And you know, we didn't have a lot of money.

and my mom saw the price tag, and she was like, this is the only school that didn't give you any money.

And, you know, we went to this program called spellbound.

And so they split up the parents and the students and the students have their own track, and they're shadowing current students there.

And the parents have their own track of, you know, learning about the financials and how, you know, the safety of their daughter's there.

And we came together the next day, and my mom said, I will scrub floors if you, if I have to, to have you go to the school.

So she knew that I would be safe there, not just physically.

It's like Alcatraz, man.

You cannot get in.

but also, she felt that I would be emotionally, socially safe.

intellectually safe, which was a big thing for me as a AP student.

One of the only black girls taking all these classes with students who were actively trying to intimidate me.

intellectually.

So best investment.

>> mm-hmm.

>> Well, we're talking about the legacy and the impact of HBCUs historically and today and into the future.

it's been a public media initiative all week long.

We've had conversations on these platforms and programing on WXXI TV.

There is a college fair coming up on the 25th.

The city of Rochester has, and the 27th is the HBCU classic.

So there's a lot happening this month.

and I want to ask all three of our guests, you know, I don't know if Raquel wants to jump in on this too.

We were talking before the program about an email that I got on on Monday.

When we were talking about Thurgood Marshall and the emailer said that Thurgood Marshall attended Lincoln and then Howard Law School in the 20s into the 1930s at a time when white schools basically just didn't think black students could could hack it.

And wouldn't let him.

I mean, all the obvious reasons, right?

So HBCUs rose up at a time when they had to.

And this emailer was saying, like, I get that.

But like, you know, today it's different.

Students can, you know, students can get in with merit anywhere they want to go.

Do you need HBCUs today?

And when I asked that question, when I when I read that email before the program, the reaction in this room was it was.

>> Visceral.

>> It was visceral.

>> So.

>> I'm going to start with I'm going to go around the table.

I'll start with Shirley.

>> So what.

>> Would you say to that email?

>> I would say absolutely there needed, as Kirsten talked about her experience, I can share my experience.

I was the first one in my family to go to college, and I was ranked in the top 10% of my class.

And I remember my school counselor saying, you're too smart to go to an HBCU.

You're too smart to go to an HBCU.

But for me, it was about an experience that I was looking for.

And so for today, people need that same experience.

It is a totally different experience at a HBCU.

When you talk about being in class with people who look like you, that you can have conversations every day with people who look like you, yeah, you'll still have challenges and intimidations and all that, but it was a different feeling when they looked like you.

And so when someone said to me years ago I was too smart to be at, I wouldn't be where I am today without that foundation at Delaware State University.

And so is it needed today?

Absolutely.

The experience that everyone's looking for something different, and there are many young people in our community that need to leave their community to figure out who they are.

And at an HBCU, it is so much easier to figure out who you are than being at a PWI.

>> Yeah.

>> And what were you looking for, Kristen?

>> I was looking for smart black girls like myself to learn with, the average GPA at Spelman College is 3.9. that's today.

But even when I was searching for schools, they had the highest GPA of all the schools.

>> Very competitive.

>> Oh, yeah.

So the fact that I got in, I was very, very excited.

And also intimidated a little bit just because I felt like it wasn't a place where I could just relax.

It was a place where I actually pushed myself even more to keep up with my peers.

And gosh, it was it was just so wonderful.

By the way, I am a certified star recruiter for Spelman, so if any listeners have students interested in Spelman College can contact me.

>> So so what would you say.

>> Then to that emailer says, well, do you do you still need HBCUs today?

It's 2025.

>> Yes, absolutely.

when we look at why HBCUs are in lockdown today, I would say yes, we do need still safe spaces for black students to learn.

when we look, even in our own Rochester area, about some of the things that are happening in the high schools that don't make the news, I hear a lot about it from friends that have students in some of the schools around the Rochester area.

we need those spaces.

we need to support these spaces.

We still have a high number of black physicians who graduate from HBCUs.

I believe Spelman College or I think and also Xavier University have the highest rate of of acceptances into medical school of all black students, all black medical students and just it's an incubator for black thought leaders for black professionals, for lawyers, anybody, anything you want to be.

I believe that these spaces you take away, that layer of that intimidation, those racial microaggressions.

And when you can peel that off, you can learn.

And that's what I needed to learn.

I needed to be able to peel all of that off and be in an environment where I can focus on academics and just shut out the rest of the stuff.

>> I think it's interesting that you mentioned the pressure of being in in the classroom with other black women that are scholars, because you always hear about being the only black person in a white, predominantly white environment.

And that pressure.

Right.

So I find it interesting that you mentioned, like being around women that look like me.

>> Yeah.

>> Was an added pressure.

>> It was it was a good pressure.

I mean, it's like everybody was the top of their class and they're all together and we're, you know, competitive and supportive in the most beautiful ways.

And then we also, you know, we go out in the streets and have fun in Atlanta.

>> That's what I would go for.

>> That was fun too.

>> And it was in Morehouse right across the street.

>> Or yeah, you can go over there.

>> If you want one of them.

>> You can have.

>> One.

Some balance out there.

And I will say that's one of the greatest challenges in being at an HBCU is you really have to balance because there are so many activities going on that you fit into that you have to balance that academic component with the life of being at an HBCU.

>> Yeah, because you guys can party.

>> Yeah.

>> Something like.

>> That.

Homecoming.

>> Can I add to that?

Because I think it's important that we, really highlight that HBCUs are highly competitive and the focus is on excellence.

And so we want to of course, you want to highlight the great time you had, but you're focused on your education and why HBCU came about as we know that black blacks were not allowed to be educated in primarily white institutions.

And so our first HBCU, I think it was 1837, was Cheyney University, where those that were formerly enslaved taught each other.

And the whole idea was you teach and you teach the other.

Right.

We continue to educate our community.

That hasn't gone away, and we still need that.

And there are colleges.

I went to white institutions that have social justice programs.

And when I think about I'm hearing what you're talking about, you need those social justice programs so that you can have this feeling of, I need to teach back.

I need to bring my community forward, that you're learning in HBCUs.

and that's important.

So when we think about why they're still important, there's still this opportunity to help our blacks are primarily behind, right.

Because of systemic racism.

Let's not forget that and look at the attacks that we're still continuing to see today.

So we need that because one, we need to teach our communities so we can continue to advance.

When we look at the the index of blacks compared to their white counterparts, we're lagging.

And so we need an opportunity to educate others to advance our community.

And so it's important that we have that.

And so I think that yes, people need to have a choice.

And that's what we provide for those at the the Urban League.

Of those that are black scholars.

But yes, we need to make sure that there is a responsibility to bring our community forward after you're educated, after you make it, whatever that means, right?

That you bring the next person forward so that our community can can push forward.

And that's what it sounds like is what you're getting at an HBCU.

That's what we teach at the Urban League.

So it's all about this social justice, continuing to bring the community forward.

So absolutely to that listener from yesterday, we still need that and more when we see the attacks on belonging and inclusion and making sure that black people have access.

Absolutely.

We need HBCUs.

>> You.

>> Kirsten, we heard Shirley Green from the city of Rochester say that in the 1980s, she was looking at a wide range of schools, and she had school counselors tell her, you're too smart for HBCUs.

Are you worried that students are still being told that today?

>> Gosh.

not so much.

But what I am worried about, especially when you look at, I would say some of the folks that I know I would say middle, upper middle class black folks who equate greatness with whiteness, and that includes our educational institutions.

there are some folks who don't think that, you know, even when we talk about Rochester City schools, you know, I'm in the school district.

I hear a lot from black folks.

Why are your kids in the city?

Schools?

And I'm not going to get into that.

But I will say that yes, I had a black counselor who did not want me to go to HBCU, wanted me to go to University of Virginia, and I did not feel like that was a space that I needed to be in.

I understood he's like, oh, you're smart and this and that.

And I'm like, well, I so, you know, and it's really his, his lack of, education about HBCUs himself.

I didn't really take that personally, but, I definitely.

It I could not have learned what I learned.

I could have learned.

And so I'll tell you this, I tested myself while I was at Spelman.

I went to University of California, San Diego on an exchange.

I wanted to test myself.

I do these things all the time.

I just do crazy things.

So I spent two quarters, which they were on a quarter system.

I spent two quarters at UCSD where the black population is 0.9%, and, it was I had a great academic experience.

okay.

But I was itching to get back to not just Atlanta, but get back to Spelman College.

I had wonderful professors at UCSD, but I also found that I became a part of the Black Student Union there.

And I felt, I don't mean to laugh at this.

I just felt like they were really angry.

And the black students were like, hanging out.

And they're like, Kirsten, why don't you want to fight oppression and fight?

I was like, well, I'm trying to learn something, and I just didn't.

It took me a while to come back down and and go back to my dorm and be like, oh, they have to worry about this at this institution.

I don't have to worry about fighting, you know, racism on campus.

And so that was just like, wow, one layer of, you know, of my college experience that I didn't have to worry about.

And so I do think I just think you have to be careful of what you're as a parent and me looking.

I have a 14 year old now.

So we're starting to look at schools, you know, look at what you're paying for.

You know, look at the whole experience.

Look at colleges, universities holistically for your child.

Where will your child learn the best?

My mother thankfully agreed with me that I would learn best at an HBCU, which is where she sent me.

>> we're late for only break.

And Steve on the phone from Honeoye Falls used to teach at Delaware State.

I want to take a little break here.

That's the only break of the hour.

We're going to come right back.

We'll take that call from Steve.

Got some feedback from listeners.

Raquel, Steven and I hosting a program this hour on HBCUs, and it's part of Public Media's week looking at HBCUs history, legacy, impact and future.

And we're talking to a couple of HBCU grads, Shirley Green Kearstin Pipe-Brown Seanelle Hawkins is president and CEO of the Urban League of Rochester, which is proud to run the Black Scholars program.

Surely proud to be a graduate of the Black Scholars Program.

So let's take our only break and we'll come back with some of your feedback.

I'm Evan Dawson Friday on the next Connections in our first hour, New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani wants free public transit.

What would the impact be in a city that had free public transit?

We'll talk about what the data says about that.

And then in our second hour, a conversation about children's literature.

What's new in children's books in 2025?

Talk with you on Friday.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Bob Johnson Auto Group.

Proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson believing an informed public makes for a stronger community.

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>> This is Connections.

Shou Chew just rolled through.

>> The break.

We had.

>> A great conversation that just rolling right through.

let me grab a phone call from Steve in Honeoye Falls first.

Hey, Steve, go ahead.

>> Hey.

Yeah, I taught at Del State in the 80s, so you might have been one of my students there.

I taught, we actually had a botany course called Wild Edibles and Medicinal Herbs that was very popular.

>> Oh, you were ahead of your time.

>> Shirley.

>> I did.

>> Not take botany courses.

>> I'm sorry.

Yeah.

>> But we we also had such great, people come in and perform.

Ray Charles came in.

I helped him fly from Baltimore to Dover Air Force Base and Andre Watts, you know, the classical pianist.

So they the the people that they would get in would were just very, very high quality.

world world known professional musicians and artists.

And it was a great, great place to teach in the 80s.

It was Del State back then.

Now they're Del State University, but go Hornets.

>> Go Hornets.

Yes, we.

>> Are the Hornets.

And actually one person I do remember coming to campus is Joe Biden.

>> Oh from Delaware.

>> From he was from Delaware.

And when he won, he was a senator early on and he came to college.

And that's when I started voting at Delaware State College.

>> Wow, wow.

>> anything you want to add there, Steve, before we let you go?

>> No, I mean, Tom Carper, other other politicians came up.

because it's such a small state.

That's the beauty of it.

But it would be interesting for you to discuss the the division between the University of Delaware and Delaware State as far as they wanted to combine at one time, but luckily Dell stayed held on to its to its historical roots.

And I'll hang up now.

Thanks.

>> Thank you.

Steve.

>> So Delaware State sits on route 13 and at the end of route 13 is, , University of Delaware.

We did not do much with them because of the differences.

but I will say that I don't recall a lot of challenges because we didn't coexist.

We knew our place at Delaware State, and we did what we needed to do.

And so although University of Delaware was at the other end of route 13, we made it home for us where we were.

>> And I want to I want to quote an article I read on this freelance website.

and the the author wrote the Nurturing Environment of HBCUs fosters resilience, builds confidence, and equip students with the tools they need to excel in a society that often underestimates them.

What do you take away from that?

Especially the last part?

The society had often underestimates them.

>> Yes.

I think I have been underestimated as a student.

You know, before college I was always that girl who was.

Wow.

You're so articulate.

You know, and and those types of, you know, I'm not going to go over these comments, but the things that I heard over and over again.

>> Has that always.

>> Been like the clumsy white person slur, like.

>> Surprised that.

>> I don't even know.

>> If Joe.

>> Biden got in trouble with Barack Obama?

>> Sometimes it's pointed and sometimes it's pointed.

>> Sometimes it's intentional.

>> Yes.

And I and my mother would tell me stories from the time of trying to get me into gifted and talented, you know, getting me tested.

My mom would say she needs to be tested.

And I got like, what, two scores?

Two points from the top score, 99th percentile.

And they're like, okay.

Yeah.

So yeah, she's gifted and talented.

So please put her in the program.

And so I think that we need to do more to especially for our black and brown children is to, not make assumptions.

And it was a black teacher who advocated for me to who was an HBCU grad and a Delta.

but who saw my potential and was able to kind of, you know, filter me out from all of the, you know, white students that I went to.

I think I was maybe one of two white students in my class and was able to say and really help my mother, to advocate for me to get tested, to get, you know, to take higher classes, to make sure that I was being challenged and pushed.

And I think that parents in Rochester, parents everywhere need to do the same.

So I think that I've always felt like I was responsible for my child's education.

No teacher is responsible.

That's just how I feel, and I need to keep up with what's going on and make sure and see the patterns in my students from, you know, from kindergarten on through high school, and make sure that they are in the best academic space possible to push them.

And I believe that HBCUs do that.

They're used to those students coming in, and not that predominantly white institutions aren't doing that.

But like I said, there's just this holistic environment at HBCUs that make you also at Spelman College, community service was a must.

I think some of the only folks that got scholarships had so much community service.

I wish I had done more.

If you want to go to Spelman, do your community service.

>> And then go to the Urban League Black Scholars Program to get a scholarship.

>> Exactly.

How can people learn more about that Black Scholars program?

>> They can go to the Urban League.

website, Urban League record.

You can learn more if you're a black scholar, if you're maintaining your B average or better throughout the high school career, you can call call us three, two, five, 65, 30.

Taurean Uthman is our VP of programing.

for our education programs.

But certainly we want to thank all of our community members because we come together as a community.

And we when I listen to you, when your mom said she was scrub floors, I'm like, oh, I wish she lived in Rochester because we helped to eliminate those barriers to college.

And so, with our scholarships, whether it's the D9 community or businesses or colleges that have prioritized black and brown students, and we can talk about that's going away now that we see all this pushes against Dei, but certainly making sure that we remove those barriers so that students can have a choice and they don't have to worry about funding.

They've done the work and we're talking about underestimating students.

That's why we had to create this program, the Black Scholars, because we weren't recognizing the great work of the students that needed to be championed.

And maybe their parents weren't.

we're in a place where they prioritized education.

Maybe they didn't get to go to college.

They didn't understand the importance of going to college.

And so having an organization, a program like the Black Scholars, where we can give them tours to HBCUs and understand there's a pathway for you, and even if it's the trades, there's a pathway for you, and we can help champion that for you.

And if there are barriers financially, we can help remove those.

>> I do want to respond to your quote that you were reading when you talked about the nurturing part.

Delaware State was a very small school.

And I tell you, I would not have succeeded without the nurturing I had professors that pushed me.

I remember one African-American woman.

I was taking a class and hanging out a little bit too much balance, and she I remember her saying, wow, I'm surprised you just got a C on that paper.

I know you can do better.

And you better believe I got an A in the class, because by her making sure she held my hand to say, I know you can do better.

I had a professor where again, balance is important.

Time to go get your books.

You don't have to buy books and get them.

You get it online.

But back then you had to go to the bookstore and buy a book.

I waited, waited when I went to get the book, they didn't have any more books.

This professor, now I was in Delaware, drove to new Jersey to get the book, came to my dorm.

The students left because it was like, Dr. Bragg is here for you.

What's going on?

I come downstairs, he's like, here's the book.

I'll see you in class tomorrow.

He knew the potential I had and he was not going to let me miss it because of what I was doing.

And so I can tell you stories about professors at Delaware State that nurtured me to make me a better student, to make sure that I did the best that I could do.

And they made sure every step of the way.

>> It's a that's a great story.

It does make me wonder, are we done with, like, physical books?

Is that over now?

Students today should have to go through what we went through going, buying books and like.

>> Lugging these.

>> Standing in line to.

>> Register.

Oh, gosh.

>> But I hear most college students everywhere.

Oh, I just got to go online and get that book.

>> Yeah, it's a different era.

>> Yeah, we still had books when I, when I was in college.

>> yeah.

I think these days online.

>> So let me also ask you a little bit about where things may be changing for higher ed in general in the years to come because of recent court decisions.

and, you know, kind of going back to that email, like, do we still need HBCUs?

We're still under repped.

this is a country that under reps. Black students at Higher Ed and especially at the Ivy League.

So this country is roughly 13% black and by population, 7% of Ivy League students are black.

So it's under repping across, you know, the most prestigious institutions, et cetera.

And I'm going to read from NBC news reporting here.

Black and Latino students have long been underrepresented on campuses as a whole.

Even when these colleges practiced race conscious admissions.

So when the Supreme Court in June struck down affirmative action programs at Harvard and the University of North Carolina, effectively ending the the systematic consideration of race in the admissions process, experts sounded the alarm that enrollment at elite colleges could drop further for Black and Latino students.

End quote.

Are you worried that American Higher Ed will soon become less, even less welcoming?

>> I think it's a worry.

I mean, we saw this in 2023 with Mississippi Under-resourcing.

This black institutions.

and so we have to continue to make sure that we continue to have these conversations.

And this is why I'm going to always say it.

The Urban League has to continue the conversation.

And organizations like us, we have to have these civil rights conversations.

We have.

We all made promises back in 2020, and I don't care what anyone else says.

We said that we wanted to make sure that we made our community.

I'm talking about Rochester here.

We said that we would make a greater a better Rochester, more equitable Rochester.

And this is why we still have to talk about this.

We have to talk about the impact we made and still continue to inspire that.

This is why the Urban League continues to do is Interrupt Racism conference.

And that's on November 3rd.

And that's still going to happen.

And we still want people to be there because we still have work to do so that we don't have to worry about this.

We still need to advocate for education, for access, for equality, for belonging, inclusivity that hasn't gone away.

We made promises to do that, and we still have work to do.

>> okay.

Are you surely are you worried about what happens in higher ed in general?

>> Absolutely.

I think we will be challenged by opportunities for our black and brown young people.

And it's going to take folks, organizations like Urban League and others to make sure that access is available for our young people.

There's lots of opportunity.

And again, not just in HBCUs, but in higher ed across the board.

And it's going to be up to the community to embrace that and advocate for our young people to go where they want to go, to get what they need to get.

>> What do you think, Kiersten?

>> This is why support for HBCUs is so important.

And I say financial support.

we need to make sure that these schools are resourced.

again, I think I quoted earlier that enrollment is up, so I'm not surprised to see enrollment at predominantly white institutions, especially Ivy leagues down.

When you have black Ivy leagues, you have Spelman, you have Morehouse, you have Hampton, you have Howard, you have Xavier University.

So we we have our own spaces where others do not want us.

And I 100% advocate and I'm I'm over being in spaces where I'm not welcomed.

So I wouldn't want to pay for that.

I wouldn't want anyone's parent to pay for that.

But we need to support HBCUs with our money so that they are resourced to provide scholarships and opportunity for those who want to be there, because clearly, we're seeing that more and more students want to be at HBCUs, black students.

>> And I think that's why it's important for us to host the HBCU College Fair that's coming up Thursday, September 25th at the Blue Cross Arena.

Because the mayor often says people don't do something because they don't know about it.

And so if we don't expose them to HBCUs, how are they going to know about that?

It's another option, not the only one, but it's up to us to make sure that they understand the resources that are available.

And even at the college fair, we'll have opportunities for scholarships because that is important.

The financial.

enrollment on on site enrollment and scholarships are going to be available.

And so but if we don't expose our young people to this one opportunity, how are they going to know that you have another choice if you're not wanted at an Ivy League, you can be you're wanted at an HBCU.

>> And I want to say, I believe if this type of championed behind HBCUs were was happening when I was trying to select a college, I think it would be a different experience for me.

I think my choice would have been different.

Right?

We didn't have this.

We had that that stigma.

Like, you know, if you are you, you're too smart for an HBCU.

That stigma was very prevalent back then.

I feel like if if this this positivity and this champion behind HBCUs were present when I were when I was selecting my choices, I think my my choice would have been different.

And where does this, this new, this passion, this champion is where is it coming from or is it has it always been there or is it something that kind of resurfaced, or is it, is it novel?

>> So I will say that the city of Rochester has hosted HBCU college fairs in the past.

This is not our first one.

pre-COVID, there had been HBCU college fairs, and I think that was a push in our community.

And I think they did it for ten years or so that it was happening.

I don't think you were hearing a lot about it because some people are not trying to push them to your point.

And my point, hey, maybe not, but I know that even with the Urban League, black scholars, many of the scholarships that are given out through there are focused on young people who are choosing HBCUs.

And so within the Urban League, there could I'm a member of Delta Sigma Theta sorority, incorporated, but our.

>> Scholars show.

>> Our scholarship was not specifically to an HBCU.

However, when we selected a candidate that was going to an HBCU, we would give them additional funding.

And so and one of the reasons you have to think about scholarship opportunities for HBCUs.

So if you're leaving Rochester, if you're here in Rochester, you're going to have to pay out of state fees as well.

And so that's an additional cost for our families.

And so a lot of the scholarships within Urban League focused on young people who were going to HBCUs for all the years that they've been around.

And so when you say who's been championing, it's been quietly championed.

And I think to your point, we have to do more at getting out the word.

>> I mean, it's a great question.

I wonder, at the Urban League, when you work with students who may be great fits, are they all aware of HBCUs?

As opportunities?

>> We provide annual tours to HBCUs so we make them aware that there's a choice.

There are other opportunities.

When I went to school, when I was in high school, no one told me that I can go on an HBCU tour.

And I think I was like, you, I didn't even know this was available to me as an option.

And I think maybe I thought even money was a barrier for me.

But Urban League, we prioritize making sure students understand the pathway to to the next steps after high school, whether it's trades, whether it's college.

But sometimes if you're a parent hasn't gone to college, you don't prioritize college because your parent hasn't had that experience.

So you need champions like yourself, like you like the Urban League.

Community leaders to say college is a pathway for you.

And here's how.

And we have community members and you can go to the Urban League, Urban League, Rock and learn more about the college scholarships that are available.

And if you're interested in a tour or learning more about the supports we can provide, we're definitely help you.

>> So let me try to squeeze in a couple listener questions in our last 90s or so, I had an email from a listener who wanted to know.

In general, if HBCUs tend to be small and more intimate in terms of size, I'm sure there's a range, but is there a general rule there?

>> I think many of them are small.

there are some larger, I believe.

I believe Howard University is a very large institution.

I think Hampton is large, too, so I'm not really sure how to answer that.

Spelman is smaller, smaller than my high school, so.

>> okay.

>> And I would think that most of them are smaller institutions, but it's because of the intimacy, the nurturing that they provide.

But to your point, there are a few larger ones.

>> Yeah.

And then one other question I'll direct to Kirsten.

listener wanted to know what HBCUs reputation is out in the working world.

So you graduate and some people say, well, I want to be able to say, I went to Harvard.

I went to Duke.

Whatever.

you know, you've had a remarkable career in a lot of different directions.

What has it been like when people find out, okay, you're an HBCU grad?

>> I think it depends on where I am.

if I'm in the South, if I'm in Atlanta, if I'm in New Orleans if I'm in, you know, if I'm in DC, it's there are so many HBCU grads around and, you know, depending on how you grew up as well, I'm only the third college graduate in my entire family.

Like the lineage going down and the third, I think third one HBCU grad, we all went to HBCUs.

But I would say it depends on where you are, but I think actually Kamala Harris has made HBCUs cool being vice president, vice president, and then a presidential candidate coming from Howard University.

So I think HBCU popularity is on the rise and folks are respecting the graduates and what we bring about.

>> 20s you want to add to that.

>> Real quick?

>> so I would agree with you, depending where you are, but I like to say I'm a Delaware State University grad, and if you have a problem with it, that's your problem.

>> Go Hornets.

I think it's going to continue.

>> To focus on diversity.

Look for HBCU grads, go to those colleges and see if they have people that are looking for work.

Use them as a recruiting tool.

HBCUs are necessary and needed still today.

>> And there's what, still around 100 HBCU 100, something like that.

I mean.

>> I mean, something like that.

Yeah.

and.

>> I only know about mine.

>> Thank you, everyone, for thank you, Rachel Stevens.

>> This was fun.

>> This was great.

Thank you.

Thank you, ladies, for sharing your experiences.

I am still envious that yeah, made it worse.

It actually made it worse.

>> Go to the classic.

We should.

>> Share a microphone more often.

>> It's fun.

>> Oh.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Come on.

>> Will you let me come hang.

>> Out.

>> With you?

>> Come on, come.

>> On, come on over.

>> Raquel.

Of course.

Host a.

>> Connections all summer.

Did an amazing job.

And from all of us at Connections.

Thank you for being with us.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for watching on YouTube.

We're back with you tomorrow.

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