AND "BASIC BLACK."

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

SO LET ME JUST DO THE BRIEFEST BIO OF EACH OF THE WOMEN SO THAT WE CAN ALL BE ON THE SAME PAGE.

NOT YOU BUT LET'S INVITE OUR AUDIENCE IN.

SO BELL HOOKS AND LANI GUINIER, WERE MULTI-HIGH FENHYPHENATE BEFORE WE USED THAT TERM.

TERM THAT BELL HERSELF DIDN'T FEEL EXACTLY COMFORTABLE WITH, BUT THERE YOU HAVE IT.

LANI GUINIER WAS CALLED A TOWERING INTELLECTUAL.

SHE WHEREAS ALSO A SCHOLAR AND ACTIVIST.

SHE WAS THE FIRST AND ONLY BLACK WOMAN TENURED AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL.

SHE IS SADLY KNOWN FOR A CONTROVERSY WHICH ENSUED AFTER BILL CLINTON NOMINATED HER IN 1998, TO BE THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND THEN WITHDREW IT BUT WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT LATER.

THOSE ARE THE BRIEFEST OUTLINES OF THEIR CAREERS AND HISTORIES OF LIFE AND THEIR LEG LEGACIES.

IT SHOULD BE INTERESTING THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU USED THE WORD COURAGE WHEN DESCRIBING BOTH OF THEM.

LET'S START WITH LANI.

MARGARET, WHY COURAGE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LANI GUINIER?

>> LANI WAS FIRST OF ALL COURAGEOUS AT HER LITIGATION STRATEGIES.

HER FIRST JOB AFTER HER CLERK SHIP, SHE STARTED TO TRY VOTING CASES ALL OVER THE SOUTH AND CONFRONTED DEEPLY RESISTANT SYSTEMS OF DISENFRANCHISEMENT AND WAS COURAGEOUS IN THE LITIGATION SOLUTIONS THAT SHE OFFERED FOR THEM.

SHE WAS REALLY MOST PROUD OF HER WORK DURING THAT PERIOD OF HER CAREER.

SHE WORKED WITH DEVAL PATRICK IN A LAWSUIT AGAINST JEFF SESSIONS IN ALABAMA AND SHE WORKED WITH COMMUNITIES.

SHE WAS COURAGEOUS IN THAT SHE MOVED ACROSS THE INTELLECTUAL TERRAIN.

SO SHE DIDN'T JUST STICK WITH VOTING RIGHTS.

SHE TACKLED ALL OF THE DEEP AND CHALLENGING ISSUES OF THE DAY.

SHE TACKLED AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, EDUCATION, MERIT, WHEN SHE WENT TO LAW SCHOOL SHE TACKLED THE WAY IN WHICH LAW SCHOOLS TRAIN WOMEN LAWYERS.

SO SHE WAS A YOU KNOW DEEP, DEEP THINKER, WE ALL KNOW THAT.

BUT ALSO, JUST NOT CONSTRAINED TO ANY ONE AREA OF THE LAW.

AND THAT I THINK WAS COURAGEOUS.

AND OF COURSE WE ALL KNOW SHE PICKED HERSELF UP AFTER THE BILL CLINTON FIASCO, AND WENT RIGHT BACK TO WORK AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, PRODUCED SOME OF HER BEST WORK.

THAT WAS PERHAPS THE BEST THING COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO HER WAS TO BE REJECTED BY BILL CLINTON AND THEN RETURNED TO HER WORK.

>> Crossley: JUST TO PUT A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL AROUND THAT.

SO SHE WAS NOMINATED IN 1998 BY FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON FOR THIS ROLE AS I SAID THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CONSERVATIVES ATTACKED HER, VICIOUSLY, AND HE THEN WITHDREW THE NOMINATION, AND SORT OF LEFT HER HANGING.

AND IT WAS A NATIONAL, IT WAS A HUGE STORY, WENT ON AND ON AND ON.

A LESSER PERSON WOULD HAVE BEEN DEVASTATED BUT AS MARGARET SAID, SHE WENT ON AND DID QUITE WELL.

SO COURAGE, AGAIN, WHY DID YOU USE THAT WORD MARITA WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT LANI GUINIER?

>> I THOUGHT ABOUT -- I ACTUALLY THOUGHT ABOUT BOTH OF THEM YOU KNOW, CONFRONTING THESE MIRRORADPRACTICES THAT CAME TOGETHER TO MAINTAIN SYSTEMS OF REPRESSION.

IT MEANT SHE WAS CAUGHT I THOUGHT IN THIS VERY PUBLIC WAY WE'VE JUST TALKED ABOUT.

SO NO ONE'S USED TO SEEING AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN PERIOD IN MUCH OF ANYTHING REALLY.

SO THE COURAGE OF THAT WHOLE -- SO THE COVERAGE OF THAT WHOLE ISSUE WITH CLINTON DROVE THE WHOLE MEDIA THROUGH STEREOTYPES AND THEY QUOTED USING STEREOTYPES WITHOUT GOING TO HER ACTUAL WORK.

SHE WAS HONEST AND DIRECT IN REALLY PUSHING FORWARD HER WORK BUT SHE CERTAINLY DIDN'T EXPECT TO BE HELD UP IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY, PUBLICLY, EXCORIATED FOR THINGS SHE DIDN'T SAY, WE CAN GO INTO LATER IF YOU WISH AND THEN MOVED FORWARD.

AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE THAT WE ALL REALLY NEED.

BUT IT WAS IMPORTANT I FEEL TO MANY, MANY WOMEN WHO FOLLOWED HER, WHO STOOD THERE AND SAW HER ABSORB THAT, RECOMMIT HERSELF TO HER PRINCIPLES, TO THE WORK SHE WAS DOING, AND TO CONTINUE.

>> Crossley: I'M SWITCHING TO BELL HOOKS NOW STARTING WITH YOU KIM, BECAUSE SHE YOU SAID IS QUITE FRANKLY A HERO OF YOURS OR WHAT IS A HERO OF YOURS.

WHY COURAGE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BELL HOOKS?

>> WELL, I THINK AND SIMILARLY, I THINK BELL HOOKS WAS COURAGEOUS IN THAT AT BASE SHE WAS A WRITER.

SHE WAS AN ARTIST.

AND SHE CHALLENGED, SHE WAS ABLE TO STAND UP AND CHALLENGE NOT ONLY WHAT MIGHT -- YOU KNOW, SHE CHALLENGED PATRIARCHY, SHE CHALLENGED CAPITALISM SHE CHALLENGED IMPERIALISM.

BUT THE WRITER'S CHARGE IS TO CHALLENGE ALL OF US INDIVIDUALLY SO WE CAN BECOME MORE HUMAN.

BALDWIN SAID THE WRITER'S JOB IS TO MAKE US MORE HUMAN.

SHE WAS NOT AFRAID TO TURN THAT CHALLENGE INWARD TO US, BLACK PEOPLE, AS A BLACK COMMUNITY.

THAT TOOK COURAGE RIGHT?

SHE HAD A TAKE FOR CAPITALISM, SHE HAD A CRITIQUE OF BEYONCE, THAT TAKES COURAGE TO CRITIQUE BEYONCE, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IN THE SERVICE OF HER LOVE FOR BLACK PEOPLE, FOR BLACK GIRLS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, RIGHT?

SO SHE -- THAT WAS EXTREMELY COURAGEOUS TO TURN THAT SAME CRITICAL EYE NOT ONLY OUTWARD BUT INWARD, IN THE SERVICE OF THE LOVING SERVICE OF MAKING US ALL, CALLING US ALL TO OUR HIGHER SELVES AND THAT'S THE ULTIMATE JOB OF THE ARTIST AND THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS.

>> Crossley: DARREN DUARTE, YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERVIEW BELL HOOKS AND YOU TOO USED THE WORD COURAGE.

>> SHE WAS COURAGEOUS, CALLIE.

SHE TALKED ABOUT FEMINISM AND SHE TALKED WITH ME A LOT ABOUT LOVE.

SHE THOUGHT WE LIVED IN A SOCIETY OF LOVELESSNESS.

AND IF WE COULD PUT LOVE FIRST AND FOREMOST IN OUR LIVES, NOT JUST THE ROMANTIC KIND OF LOVE BUT THE LOVE WHERE WE HAD COMPASSION AND CARING FOR EACH OTHER AS BLACK PEOPLE AND BASICALLY HUMAN KIND, ALL MAN KIND, WE WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE FOR IT.

>> Crossley: SO HERE IS AN EXPRESSION YOU MAY ALL HAVE HEARD THESE DAYS AND YOUNG PEOPLE USE IT FREQUENTLY, FOR THE CULTURE.

IT REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF THE EXPRESSION FOLKS USED TO USE A WHILE BACK WHEN THEY DESCRIBED A BLACK PERSON AS A RACE WOMAN OR A RACEMAN.

THAT'S WHERE THEY RECEIVED GREATNESS IN THEIR CAREERS, WITH ALL ACCORDED TO THEM.

THEIR CONNECT TO THE COMMUNITY WAS FOREMOST, THEY NEVER LET THAT GO, THAT WAS THE DRIVER OF THEIR WORK, WHAT THEY SAW AS THEIR REASON AND THEIR PURPOSE FOR BEING.

SO I'D LIKE ALL OF YOU TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE FOR THE CULTURE, AND YOU CAN USE EITHER LANI OR BELL AS YOUR EXAMPLE.

LET'S START WITH YOU KIM.

>> YES, I THINK THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

I LOVE THE PHRASE, RACE MAN, PICKED UP ON ONE OF HER IF I HAD TO USE COURAGE IT WAS ALSO LOVE, LOVE FOR BLACK PEOPLE THAT DROVE ALL OF HER MIRROR ADEXPLORATION HE INTO ALL THESE OTHER THINGS.

TO OVERCOME THESE EXTERNAL TERRIBLE FORCES OF REPRESSION BUT THOSE INTERNALIZATIONS OF OPPRESSION, IN WHICH WE PERPETUATE THEM AMONG OURSELVES.

SHE ABSOLUTELY WAS FOR THE CULTURE AND SHE WANTED US TO HAVE THE COWRNLGT NOT ONLY TO RESIST OUT -- COURAGE TO NOT ONLY RESIST OUTWARDLY BUT TO EXPAND INWARDLY.

WE NEEDED TO NURTURE AND EXPAND OUR HUMANITY.

WHAT IS THE DAMAGE THAT THAT DOES TO US?

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY GREATER CALLING, ANY GREATER CALLING FOR A RACE WOMAN THAN TO SEEK TO NOT ONLY HELP US FIGHT, BUT TO ALSO HELP US HEAL.

>> Crossley: AND LANI HERSELF IN AN INTERVIEW YOU DID WITH HER DARREN, SPOKE VERY FIRMLY ABOUT THE FACT THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE ONLY TEN OOURD AFRICAN AMERICAN PROFESSOR AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL.

TAKE A LESSON.

-- A LISTEN.

ARE HAVE THE SENSE AND THIS WAS IMPLICIT IN YOUR EARLIER QUESTION THAT IF WE CAN SIMPLY GET ONE PIONEER, THROUGH THE DOOR, THAT THEN THE DOORS WILL FLY WIDE OPEN.

AND I THINK THAT'S A FALLACY.

AND YET WE HAVE RAISED EXPECTATIONS AS TO WHAT THAT ONE INDIVIDUAL MIGHT BE ABILITY TO DO BECAUSE SHE OR HE IS NOW INSIDE.

>> Crossley: DARREN, DID YOU SEE FRUSTRATION ABOUT THAT AND A LITTLE BIT OF PAIN?

BECAUSE WE PUT A LITTLE BIT OF WEIGHT ON THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH DOOR.

>> RIGHT.

ONE OF THE THINGS SHE ALSO SAID TOO IN THAT CONTEXT, THINK ABOUT DR. KING.

WOULD DR. KING BE THE SECRETARY OF HUD WOULD WE ALL BE TREE?

NO, IT WASN'T ABOUT THAT.

IT WAS ABOUT YES, HAVING PEOPLE LIKE HER IN THE NUKES BUT YOU NEED MORE.

WE CAN'T SYMPTOM, -- STOP, WE CAN'T STOP THERE.

ONE OF THE THINGS SHE DID TELL ME BACK THEN IF YOU HAVE ONLY ONE OR A FEW IN SOME OF THOSE INSTANCES, INSTEAD OF THE INDIVIDUAL CHANGING THE INSTITUTION, THE INSTITUTION ENDS UP CHANGING THE INDIVIDUAL.

FOR HER PART THAT DID NOT HAPPEN WITH HER AS SHE KEPT ON WITH VOTING RIGHTS, CIVIL RIGHTS AND SHE TAUGHT A WHOLE SLEW OF STUDENTS OVER THE YEARS THAT THOSE WERE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DEAL WITH IN THIS SOCIETY AND AS THEY WENT FORTH IN THEIR LIVES HOPEFULLY THAT WOULD BE FRONT AND CENTER.

>> Crossley: WELL, MARGARET THAT WAS BECAUSE SHE WAS FOR THE CULTURE.

SHE WAS A RACE WOMAN.

SHE UNDERSTOOD SHE WAS OF THE COMMUNITY.

>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S OBVIOUSLY TRUE THAT SHE IS DEFINITELY FOR THE CULTURE.

I WANTED TO SAY ABOUT BELL THAT BELL WATTS ALSO VERY MUCH FOR THE CULTURE BY CALLING OUT PATRIARCHY IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

SO BELL WAS A PIONEER IN THAT SENSE, IN THAT SHE WAS ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE AND CONSISTENT VOICES IN POINTING OUT TO US, TO OUR OWN COMMUNITY, WHERE PATRIARCHAL PRACTICES, LONG STANDING PATRIARCHAL PRACTICES, WERE HARMFUL TO OUR PEOPLE, TO OUR WOMEN, TO OUR GIRLS AND TO OUR COMMUNITY.

SO I MEAN I THINK SORT OF HAVING THAT -- BEING ABILITY TO HAVE THAT INTERNAL -- BOTH BE AN EXTERNAL VOICE BUT ALSO TO BE AN EFFECTIVE INTERNAL SPIRIT AND VOICE AND INTELLECT WITHIN OUR OWN COMMUNITY.

THAT'S WHAT BOTH OF THESE WOMEN BROUGHT TO THE TABLE.

AND AS FAR AS LANI IS CONCERNED, YES, LANI -- FIRST OF ALL IT'S TRUE, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE ONLY, BUT SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE FIRST.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE PRESIDENT BIDEN ANNOUNCING THAT IT WOULD BE A BLACK WOMAN TO BE THE NEXT SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, HAD LANI GUINIER AND DERRICK BELL BEFORE HER WHO LEFT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL BECAUSE HARVARD THE NOT HAVE ANY BLACK MEAFLT PROFESSORS.

LEFT AND WENT TO NYU.

SOMEONE HAS GOT TO TAKE THAT FIRST COURAGEOUS STEP AND IT WAS DERRICK WHO DID IT OPENED THE DOOR FOR LANI AND THEN LANI WHO THEN TRAINED MANY OF THESE WOMEN WHOM WE SAW ON THE CNN SCREEN AND MAYBE THE PBS SCREEN ALSO YESTERDAY BEING ANNOUNCED FOR THE NEXT CANDIDATES FOR THE SUPREME COURT POSITION.

>> Crossley: THERE YOU HAVE IT MARITA IN TERMS OF THE CONNECTION THAT BOTH OF THEM SVELTE VERY STRONGLY ABOUT.

LET ME FOLLOW UP SOMETHING THAT BOTH MARGARET AND KIM SAID.

SHE WAS AWARE THAT TRYING TO GET TO THAT HUMANITY, THAT PIECE OF HUMANITY WAS REALLY IMPORTANT.

BECAUSE WITHOUT THAT LOVE, IT WAS HARD TO FIGHT THE BATTLES, IF YOU WILL.

SO LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO BELL HOOKS AGAIN TALKING TO DARREN DUARTE WHEN SHE WAS ON A BOOK TOUR HERE IN BOSTON SOME YEARS AGO.

>> I'M FUNDAMENTALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT JUSTICE AND ABOUT FREEDOM.

AND WHEN YOU ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THOSE BASIC ETHICAL ISSUES OF JUSTICE AND FREEDOM, IT SORT OF MOVES OVER, I THINK OF MYSELF AS ALMOST BEING LIKE A TREE WHERE THE BRANCHES KEEP EXPANDING BUT THE ROOT OF THE TREE STAYS THE SAME.

>> Crossley: SHE'S A ROOT OF THE TREE, MARITA.

>> YES.

WHAT I LIKED ABOUT THINKING HERE ABOUT THE COMPARISON OF THESE TWO WOMEN, WE ARE BOTH HUMANISTS REALLY.

YOU SEE THAT, BELL TALKING ABOUT LOVE, HOW DIFFERENT PEOPLE ACCEPT ONE ANOTHER, MOVE FORWARD TOGETHER.

YOU SEE IT IN LANI, IN HER WORK TO MOVER OUT OF THE IDEA MUCH QUOTA OR BLACK VOTING BLOCK BUT THE POINT WAS ISSUE OF JUSTICE, WHOEVER COULD GET TOGETHER, TO WORK TOGETHER TO REACH THAT GOAL SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE TOGETHER, COME TOGETHER.

SHE WAS MISUNDERSTOOD IN THAT AREA BUT THE POINT WAS THEY WERE HUMANISTS.

I LIKE THE EXAMPLE THEY SAID, PEOPLE WHO ARE HUMANISTS WHO ARE ROUTED NONETHELESS IN THEIR BLACK COMMUNITY.

THAT'S WHAT LANI SAID, THAT WAS THE SOURCE OF POWER, AUTHORITY AND LEGITIMACY.

THE COMMUNITY.

LET US NOT FORGET THAT IS THE ROOT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

SO I LIKE IT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO WOMEN WHO MARRIED BOTH OF THOSE THINGS, BUT OFTEN IN OUR PUBLIC DISCOURSE WE WANT TO SEPARATE THAT.

YOU'RE EITHER FOR EVERYBODY, EITHER FOR THE HUMAN RACE OR ELSE YOU'RE FOR ONE RACE.

AND THESE ARE EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE WHO WERE FORCEFUL.

VERY FORCEFUL IN REPRESENTING THEIR OWN RACES BUT IN DOING THAT, EMBRACING THE LARGER GOAL OF EQUITY AND JUSTICE.

>> Crossley: SO MARGARET STARTED THE CONVERSATION, LOOKING OUT TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TOUCHED BY THE WORK OF LANI AND ARE NOW TAKING POSITION BECAUSE SHE WAS IN PLACE TO FAST ON SOME OF THIS.

I WONDER, STARTING WITH YOU, DARREN, CAN YOU NOTE SOME YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE PATH OF A LANI, IN THE PATH OF A BELL HOOKS AT THIS MOMENT?

>> WELL, I THINK THE POSITION THAT SHE DID NOT GET THAT CLINTON PULLED HER FOR IN 93, KRISTIN CLARK I BELIEVE THAT IS SOMEONE ALSO IN HER PATH AM I CORRECT MARGARET?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

>> SO 28 YEARS, SOME 28 YEARS LATER, THAT WAS 1993, A STUDENT OF HERS, A STUDENT OF HERS IS IN THE POSITION THAT AT ONE POINT SHE TOLD ME THAT WAS HER WORST NIGHTMARE WHEN CLINTON PULLED THAT NOMINATION.

BUT HERE SHE NURTURED A STUDENT WHO IS NOW THAT PERSON.

I MEAN, THAT'S PRETTY -- THAT'S PRETTY HEAVY RIGHT THERE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

>> Crossley: THAT IS TRUE.

AND I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE IF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW KRISTIN CLARK NOT A SHRINKING VIOLATE.

VERY MUCH IN THE MODE OF I I'M GOING TO SAY WHAT NEEDS TO GET SAID AND EQUITIES IN EVERY POINT.

KIM.

>> FOR BELL HOOKS, BELL HOOKS NURTURED AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF BLACK FEMINIST WRITERS AND SCHOLARS AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEADING THE MOVEMENT AT THE VERY MOMENT, KIMBERLY CRENSHAW ON THE LAW SIDE AND ON THE WRITING SIDE, THE BLACK FEMINIST WRITERS WHO ARE DIAGNOSING THE ILLS OF OUR SOCIETY AND PRESCRIBING THE SOLUTION, WHICH IS WHAT BOTH LANI GUINIER AND BELL HOOKS DID.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO REALIZE.

IF WE HAD LISTENED TO BOTH OF THESE WOMEN, RIGHT, BELL HOOKS TALKED ABOUT THE LOVELESSNESS THAT IS AT THE CENTER OF AMERICAN SOCIETY AS DARREN SAID AND HOW BLACK PEOPLE ARE DAMAGED BY THAT BUT THE LARGER SOCIETY IS DAMAGED BY THAT.

AND LANI GUINIER ABOUT HER THEORY ABOUT GENERAL TORREZ I BELIEVE, THE CANARIES IN THE COAL MINES, WHAT IS HAPPENING TO VOTING RIGHTS, WE ARE THE CANARIES IN THE COAL MINES.

BOTH OF THESE WOMEN WERE PROPHETIC, IN SOME WAYS, NOT ONLY ARE THESE INSTITUTIONS AND OPPRESSIVE FORCES DAMAGING US AS BLACK FOLKS BUT THREATENING THE WHOLE SOCIETY.

WHOLE GENERATIONS OF SCHOLARS ON AND ON AND ON WHO ARE CONTINUING TO DO THE SAME THING.

WE ALL KNOW IF AMERICA WOULD JUST LISTEN TO BLACK WOMEN WE WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER OFF!

>> Crossley: MARITA PICK UP FOLKS YOU SEE FOLLOWING IN THE PATH OF LANI AND BELL.

>> I WENT AT IT IN ANOTHER WAY.

I WAS IMPRESSED BY THE POINT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHO IS THE LEADER WHO IS TAKING OVER.

AND WHAT I SEE IS A DISPERSED LEADERSHIP.

IN THE EARLY DAYS OF BLACK LIVES MATTER, WHO IS IN CHARGE HERE, THIS ISN'T GOING TO WORK, NOBODY IS IN CHARGE.

I THINK WE SEE DISPERSED LEADERSHIP.

NOW WHETHER THAT IS IN THAT PARTICULAR MOVEMENT OR EVEN WHEN YOU THINK OF THE JANUARY 6th INSURRECTION.

I LOVE IT THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE PREPARED TO STEP UP WHO ARE EMPOWERED NOW TO STEP UP, PARTICULARLY IN THESE AREAS THAT WE'RE SO CONCERNED ABOUT AND GET SO LITTLE ATTENTION, HAVE GOTTEN SO LITTLE ATTENTION IN AREAS OF SOCIAL JUSTICE AND RACIAL EQUITY.

BUT I HEAR MANY MORE VOICES THAT I USED TO HEAR.

IT WAS BOLD FOR BELL HOOKS TO CALL GLORIASTEIN GLORIASTEINEM, SPIKE LEE, MORE PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO CALL THE SHOTS AS THEY SEE THEM.

WHICH IS A VERY GOOD THING.

LANI IN THE SAME WAY AS WE SAID, PRESSED ON AND MADE HER POINTS.

I THINK THAT EXAMPLE THAT I SEE IN A LOT OF YOUNGER PEOPLE FOR SURE IT'S HARD, IT'S JUST YOU KNOW WHAT I WANT, TO SAY WHAT HAS TO BE SAID BECAUSE OTHERWISE DECISIONS ARE ALL MADE BY THE SAME PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHAT THEY LEFT BEHIND FOR ME TO SEE.

NOBODY WANTS TO GIVE UP DECISION-MAKING IN THE LARGER SOCIETY.

TO PEOPLE OF COLOR, TO WOMEN.

AND THESE PEOPLE TOOK THAT ON, AND THAT'S THE -- YOU KNOW THAT'S THE CHALLENGE WE WALK WITH NOW.

SO I'M TIRED OF HEARING -- YOU KNOW WE HIRED OUR FIRST WHATEVER BLACK SOMEBODY.

WHO IS THE WE, WHO IS THE WE?

SO I LOVE IT THAT THIS ADDRESS TO THE CORE DECISION MAKING RIGHT THAT'S BEEN HELD SO CLOSELY, CONTINUES TO BE BATTERED AND VERY STRONGLY THESE DAYS.

>> Crossley: I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, MARGARET, YOU STARTED THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT, WHO IS COMING BEHIND, BUT TO PUT IN PLACE AND REMIND PEOPLE THAT LANI HERSELF WAS INSPIRED BY CONSTANCE BAKER MOTLEY, THAT SHE SAW CONSTANCE BAKERRER MOTLEY FIGHTING FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS RIGHTS TO BE AND THOUGHT I WANT TO DO THAT.

I WANT TO BE A LAWYER LIKE THAT.

I WANT TO TAKE UP THIS CAUSE.

>> WELL, TWO THINGS, CONSTANCE BAKER MOTLEY, WHEN SHE WAS 12, SHE SAID SHE SAW HER ON TELEVISION.

BUT LANI'S FATHER ALSO WAS A TREMENDOUS FIGURE IN HER LIFE.

HER FATHER AND HER MOTHER.

HER FATHER WAS OF JAMAICAN ANCESTRY AND HER MOTHER WAS JEWISH AMERICAN.

OUR FAMILIES WERE CLOSE IN THE CITY BUT HER FATHER WAS A LAWYER, HE GOT ONE OF THE HIGHEST GRADES ON THE BAR EXAM WHEN HE TOOK IT IN NEW YORK, NEW YORK CITY, AND THEN WAS NOT ABLE TO BUILD A CAREER FOR HIMSELF AS A LAWYER, BECAUSE OF THE TIME.

AND BECAME A UNION LEADER, A VERY, VERY 77 UNION LEADER.

SHE GOT HER SOCIAL JUSTICE HEART AND MIND AND SPIRIT FROM HER PARENTS, AS WELL AS THOSE MODELS WHO WERE BARRIER BREAKERS AT THE TIME, LIKE CONSTANCE BAKER MOTLEY AND THERE WERE SEVERAL OTHERS AROUND HER IN NEW YORK CITY.

THIS IS A FAMILY THAT CAME FROM YOU KNOW, I VISITED THE HOME IN QUEENS.

THESE ARE HUMBLE PEOPLE.

LANI, WELL-EDUCATED, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY PART OF THE WORLD.

BUT ALSO, THIS IS NOT A RICH FAMILY.

THE GUINIER FAMILY.

LANI WENT TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND WENT TO THE IVIES, AND SHE PUT THAT ALL TO GREAT USE TO THE BENEFIT OF OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Crossley: WELL I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN CARRY AWAY THAT YOU ALL HAVE SAID BOTH OF YOU WHO KNEW THEM PERSONALLY AND OTHERS WHO KNEW THEM FROM A FAR IS THAT THE LEGACY IS THAT THEY WERE CONNECTED, AND REACHED BACK BEHIND THEM, BROUGHT FORWARD AND INTENDED TO BE CLEAR THAT THERE WAS STILL WORK TO BE DONE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR TRIBUTES.

THAT'S THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANKS TO OUR AUDIENCE FOR JOINING US AND NOW STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON DIGITAL PLATFORMS FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

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