[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - Hi everyone, Steve Adubato.

Listen, you're gonna see a graphic right out of the box here.

I've been thinking about this together with our terrific producers, and the graphic says this, and please do not think we're trying to be inflammatory or get you to think that it's worse than what it is.

Decision 2024: Democracy in Danger.

Steve Malanga, a senior fellow at Manhattan Institute, that's the graphic.

Do you actually believe, 'cause we were debating, do we put a question mark at the end, democracy in danger?

Or just say democracy in danger.

Are we in danger?

- I think there are enough people who believe that, that it is a problem because when people believe that, they begin to believe that this is no longer a legitimate democracy.

Whether they're right or wrong, the perception is important and that is the perception right now.

So in that respect, it's clearly an issue.

- So you and I grew up in the same neighborhood, a little bit younger than you are along with your younger brother Tom.

- You had to point that out.

- Yeah, so we grew up in a neighborhood, let's just say, Italian American neighborhood, most of the people who we grew up with probably voted for Donald Trump when they became of age.

Fair to say?

- Probably.

If that's true, however, I would remind you that ours was a blue collar neighborhood.

- 100% - So I would say the vast majority of the adult men were not college graduates, they were tradesmen.

- Agreed, agreed.

- So one of the things you just said is something that has flipped enormously in the last 10 to 15 years.

How did the Republican party become the party of blue collar Americans?

- Don't ask us a rhetorical question, Steve Malanga.

Answer it.

How?

What did the Democrats do wrong?

- Well, it's interesting.

I wrote a piece, a couple of pieces actually, when Chris Christie was running for reelection in New Jersey about how his campaign had split the union movement in New Jersey.

Public sector unions were adamantly opposed to him.

The private sector trained unions loved him and endorsed him.

This created a big to-do in New Jersey, but it also was, I think, a foreshadowing of something happening in larger respect.

The private sector unions were saying, "We can't afford the taxes.

"We can't afford the public sector "that we have in the state and we need a pro-growth agenda."

I think the part of what happened is that the Democratic party has moved left enough so that a lot of blue collar people don't see a pro-growth agenda anymore in the Democratic Party and they feel like they've been left behind and there of course have been stories about them being called the "deplorables" and so forth.

- Yeah, Hillary Clinton called them deplorable.

But hold on, Steve, you're describing the Democratic party.

That's your perception.

People can agree, disagree, but the, "Republican party" as it is today.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that if three quarters of Republicans, if not more, regardless of how many times former President Donald Trump is criminally indicted, regardless of how much time he's going to spend in jail or excuse me in court, we don't know what's gonna happen after that and including January 6th.

We're voting for him anyway.

He's our guy.

He's our party.

You're trying to tell me that if the rule of law, you did a separate segment with us on shoplifting, rule of law matters.

Does the rule of law even matter to most Republicans in the "MAGA" Trump movement today?"

Or, "Hey, listen, that's just an inconvenience."

You tell me.

- Yeah that's very interesting.

What I would say is a lot of people, even within the Republican party, are trying to explain this because there are alternatives in the Republican party.

One of the things of course that's gone on in the last eight years is Republicans hold a lot of governorships and some of them have been pretty successful.

Why aren't MAGA people turning to them?

The only explanation I've heard actually talking to people who support Trump about this is it's like a giant, I don't want to use this phrase, it's like a giant screw you, if you will.

- To whom?

Steve, to whom?

- What?

- To whom?

- The people who are doing things like, indicting Trump, they feel like, you don't indict a guy who's running for president and essentially, this is part of the conspiracy that they feel is out there.

But it is interesting because the Republican party does have clear alternatives, people who've been governing and putting out policies, but they're not making any headway with this group.

- What's the attraction of Donald Trump?

What's the attraction of Donald Trump?

- Well, that's an interesting - By the way, just to be clear.

Democracy in danger, check out what President Trump, former President Trump said about those who are engaged in the activities, the insurrection around January 6th, many of whom are in jail right now, who he said he would seriously consider, including the leader of the Proud Boys at the time, that he would pardon them if you were elected again.

So explain to us, while I argue democracy is in danger, what the appeal is to Donald Trump please, Steve.

- Yeah, I think the appeal is basically he's the one who, day after day on Twitter, when he was president, he would attack a position.

Things that had nothing to do really, even with running the country, he would attack other people on Twitter the way a Twitter troll was and there is a bizarre appeal because finally after these years- - The name calling?

- Yeah, absolutely.

- Mocking people, their weight, their appearance.

A woman, I would never have sex with her.

I couldn't be charged with that, because she's not the type.

Steve, what's the policy appeal?

What's the ideological appeal?

Because you're a policy guy.

- Trump's policies can be extremely inconsistent.

Some of them are not what I would call conservative at all.

Some of them don't follow from others.

It's very difficult, I mean...

In our publications, we wrote a lot during the Trump years about his policies and we talked a lot about his policies that just don't make sense.

Tariffs, extreme tariffs.

Steve, it's not about policy, it's about personality.

It's clearly about personality.

- We'll do this for speaking of personality, policies and whatever.

We got a couple minutes left.

President Biden, as we speak right now and again late September, we're doing this program, be seen later.

We don't know what's gonna happen.

To what degree is democracy in danger because the large number of Americans, Democrats included, seriously questioned whether Joe Biden has the cognitive ability to be president again and be 86 at the end of his second term, please.

- Well, we see this in the polls.

More and more Democrats are saying and I'm reading every day, more and more Democrats are saying, "We need to find somebody else."

I don't know about the issue of democracy being in danger, I think because we do have- - Sorry for interrupting, Steve.

The choice is Trump and Biden 2024.

Is that more dangerous for the country?

- Mystifying is what I call it.

How we got here, I have no idea how we actually got here.

Again, I say this, you could list governors in both parties who've been governing and have a record and have policy records and very distinct policy records.

This country has often looked to governors, why?

Particularly coming through the pandemic.

Anyone who governed during the pandemic has a clear record.

You know what they stand for.

Why are we where we are?

I honestly cannot con completely explain that.

- I'll explain this.

It's been too long since we've had Steve Malanga on and we'll have him on a lot more because his thoughts, his perspective, his writing and checkout the information to get to Steve and the work that he is done.

His books, his regular columns that he puts out together with the folks of the Manhattan Institute.

Very thoughtful, provocative.

Good stuff, Steve, thanks for joining us.

- Thank you.

- Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

PNC Foundation.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The Fidelco Group.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

PSEG Foundation.

And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by BestofNJ.com.

At the Community Food Bank of New Jersey, we are working now more than ever to fill the emptiness caused by hunger.

We are the state's largest anti-hunger organization.

And together with our 800 plus community partners, we are committed to delivering food, help, and hope, to our hundreds and thousands of neighbors in need.