-[Male VO] This program is brought to you in part by Santa Cruz Guitar Company and Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension Strings.

-[Host VO] Also brought to you by Paige Capos and by Peluso Microphone Lab.

Additional support provided by these sponsors.

Hello, and welcome to The Life Of A Musician.

Tonight's episode is recorded live from MerleFest at Wilkes Community College in Wilkesboro, North Carolina.

Let's step inside and listen.

-Hello folks, and welcome to The Life Of A Musician live from MerleFest.

And I am extremely, extremely happy, and really, really humbled to sit next to the insanely gifted, insanely talented, Mr. James Nash.

-You were very kind, Brandon, thank you.

-I'm getting the clinic here, we've been sitting here, -like, you know, before time.

-We were picking guitars, -it's been fun.

-Picking.

And I'm saying that, "How did you do that?"

How did you do that?

Wait a minute, how'd you do that one?

-Well, but it's funny, because everybody's got their own way of playing the instrument.

-Right.

-Like, there are these methods that maybe some people learn, but I think a lot of us figure this thing out for ourselves, and that means that there's as many styles -as there are people, you know.

-Absolutely and like, I have this, like, habit when I hear something cool, I forget everything else that's going around me.

So soon as you started playing, I'm like, "Oh man, I wish I had more time."

-Oh no, man, I feel that way so time--so many--so often.

And going to music festivals, especially, I mean, you will-- it's really humbling because you not only walk around, you see all these amazing performers, amazing bands, and they've got their acts worked out, and some of it is just like rehearse to the hilt, and it's just everything is perfect.

And then you go hang around a campsite or in a parking lot or something to start picking, you meet somebody who's just this great picker, and you're like, "Wow, you know, who, what do you do?"

Like, "Who do you play for?

What's going on?"

And this guy's like, "I drive for UPS."

-[Brandon] Yeah.

-And like, "Yeah, that's right."

Like, there are people who are just, like, hanging out here this week, and you're gonna go back to their jobs on Monday, who can do exactly that to you.

So it's--and to me, the only way to even cope with that is just to look at it as, you know, I do what I do, and if I start getting competitive with other people, nothing's ever good gonna come from it, you know.

-Well, that takes all the joy out of it.

Like competing just takes the joy out of it.

It's, you know, music is meant to be shared.

And for me, I've always been like, man, if somebody's doing something I can't do, I want that to be an inspiration.

-[James] Absolutely.

-Yeah, you know, well, I don't like this person because.

-[James] Yeah, yeah.

- Insert excuse here.

It's an excuse because you're jealous.

-Well, that's exactly right.

And if you see somebody dunking a basketball, you're not gonna be like, "Okay, I'm gonna spend the next five years trying to learn how to dunk a basketball, because it's probably not gonna happen, you know."

You're gonna look at it, it's like, "Hey, that's amazing that a human being can do that."

And now, I'm going to go back to doing my thing, you know.

-Well and like, this is-- the problem is, we've only got this much time, and I've got this many things that I want to say, -do talk about.

-[James] Absolutely.

-And I definitely want to just let all of my viewers and all the future viewers out there, -just see your insanely amazing -[James] Wow.

-prowess, you know.

But for you, like something that I've watched about, you know, your band the way backs, and just your personal music and all that you do, there's so much freedom.

-[James] Yeah.

-You're not hindered by it has to be this style, or it has to be that song, you know, kind of where's that come from?

-You know, I think that maybe came from, I think, like a lot of people, I had a pretty strict upbringing where it was like, you're going to go to school, you're going to get A's, you're going to go to college, and you got to follow this really strict path.

And then so and I went to a really strict High School where I learned a lot of discipline and great things.

But I think like you get in that environment and you look for a release.

And for me, the music was always the release.

And so it's always interesting to me when I meet musicians who followed a really structured path, because for me, the music was always, man, this is the one time in my life where I get to do -whatever I want to do.

-[Brandon] Right.

-And so I've really structured all of my practice and kind of development around trying to be ready for the next moment when I get to do whatever comes to mind then.

So you're exactly right.

Like, I'd really try not to learn licks.

I try not to work on-- work things out too much.

Like we--way back to our album hour, we just got done with yesterday, which is why my voice is a little ragged today, and we're up there stinging-- Warren and I were over there singing Stevie Wonder harmonies all afternoon, and that that ain't easy.

-[laughter] No.

-But, you know, whenever I hear music like that, I--as much as I love the original, I find that if the more that I listen to something, the more that I start trying to copy it.

And I kind of have this philosophy about any kind of cover music that I'm going to do where I try not to listen to it.

I learn it from memory.

And so I say, "Well, okay, if I want to," like we were just picking on Shady Grove, or maybe we'll play that a little bit today, like when I learned Shady Grove, I didn't learn it from Tony Rice's version, or Jerry Garcia's version, or Doc Watson's version, I learned it from my memory of Shady Grove.

And that's kind of my philosophy of the music is.

Well, when I play Shady Grove, I don't want to play this version, that version, I want to play the way it makes me feel, which is probably wrong.

And I learned it my own way and made it up kind of in my head as a combination.

So it's like half copying other people, and it's half just making it up.

And so, that, to me, that's what music has always been.

It's always been something that's very individual -and personal for me.

-Oh, yeah.

I'm a firm believer, and there's no such thing as wrong.

-There you go.

-You know, when-- -when you're talking music, -Absolutely.

-Not in life, but musically.

-That's right.

Yeah.

-So like, when we were going over Shady Grove, I'm having to fight off my old habits.

-Yeah.

When you were saying you've listened to Tony Rice's version so much so it's kind of like it's part of you.

-Right, Writer Doc's version -Yeah.

Yeah.

-where, you know, the similar versions, and I'm listening to the way you do it.

"I'm like, that is so fresh and cool."

-"I hope I can do that."

-Oh, well, thanks.

I mean-- -"I hope I can follow up on not mess it up."

-Yeah, well, and but the truth is, like, if I went home and listened to Tony Rice's version five times, I'd have trouble getting it out of my head.

And I'm almost to the point with a cover like that where I don't even want to hear somebody else play it their way, because it's going to confuse me about what my way is.

And it's kind of like I just, I want to focus in on the way that I play it and what it means to me.

Because to me, that's the most honest way to kind of translate it to a listener, is the more I believe in it, then the more that I think, it comes across as something that's maybe not what they're used to, but at least it feels authentic, you know.

-[Brandon] Well, and that's what makes you you, and that's what made, you know, that's what made Tony Tony - and Brian Sutton.

-That's absolute, that's right.

-[Brandon] Thiele Thiele and Stevie Ray Stevie Ray, it's like.

-Well, and I hope to anybody out there who plays guitar and sings and do the same thing with you, like, don't get caught up on, "I can't do it as well as Tony Rice."

Well, nobody can do it as well.

I mean, Tony was Tony.

And nobody's ever going to be Tony, -but be you, you know.

-Exactly.

-Yeah, yeah.

-We lay a little bit of that -on this and like I said, -[James] Let's try it.

-I'm honest on the show, so I'm going to do my best not to mess you up -and follow along.

-No, hey, no, it's great.

It's great.

Well, I'll play it my way, and if Brandon, it's gonna sound like he doesn't know the song.

And really, it's that I'm doing it wrong, and he's having to follow me, so.

-[Brandon] Let me try the string.

♪ ♪ ♪ -Okay.

-All right, so I play the lick and again, I don't even know where I got this.

To me, this is in my memory.

This is the way that Tony and Doc play it, and probably neither of them plays it like this, But it's just like... ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Yeah, peaches in the summertime ♪ ♪ Apples in the fall ♪ ♪ If I can't have the girl I love ♪ ♪ I don't want none at all ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, I know ♪ ♪ Yeah, Shady Grove, my little love ♪ ♪ I'm bound for Shady Grove ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ -Yeah, there you go.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Now some folks come to fiddle and sing ♪ ♪ Some folks come to tarry ♪ ♪ Some folks come to fiddle and sing ♪ ♪ But I come here to marry ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove, I know ♪ ♪ Yeah, Shady Grove, my little love ♪ ♪ I'm bound for Shady Grove ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove, my darlin' ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love I'm goin' back to Harlen ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [guitar strumming] [guitar strumming continues] [guitar strumming continues] -[James] Yeah.

♪ ♪ ♪ [guitar strumming continues] ♪ Now last time I saw Shady Grove ♪ ♪ She was standing in the door ♪ ♪ Had a pair of stockings in her hand ♪ ♪ Barefoot on the floor ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove, I know ♪ ♪ Yeah, Shady Grove, my little love ♪ ♪ I'm bound for Shady Grove ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove, my darlin' ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love I'm goin' back to Harlen ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [guitar strumming continues] [guitar strumming continues] ♪ Well I will nevermore see Shady Grove ♪ ♪ But I swear I hear the sound ♪ ♪ I know her heart still beats for me ♪ ♪ Beneath within the ground ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove, I sing ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love I got to go away ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove, my darlin' ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love ♪ ♪ I'm goin' back I'm goin' back to ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove I sing ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love I got to go away ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love Shady Grove my darlin' ♪ ♪ Shady Grove, my little love I'm going back to Harlen ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ -Yeah.

-[chuckles] -Oh, you followed that -just that fine, Brandon.

-That was fun.

Well, I just, you know, I faked it.

-You did fake--well, we were faking it the whole time, so.

We--I mean, we had no arrangement.

We had--to me, that's what music is all about right there.

Like, we didn't know what we were doing.

And some of that was great, some of that was, you know, we probably, if we were making a record, we'd be like, -"Let's do it again."

-Yeah, let's do another take, or let's cut and paste, but we're tired.

-But, yeah, sure.

But that's music in real life, right there, and that's what it's all about.

Yeah.

-Oh, yeah.

So I forgot where that ♪ ♪ ♪ that funky A minor I like to play.

I forgot it where was that, so it was like, what?

-It fit, yeah.

Yeah, now, that was cool.

-That's the fun part.

But that's what I would-- that was a total trip.

That was fun.

Thanks for-- -For me too.

Thanks for doing that.

Yeah, yeah.

-It's like, I really need to get-- to get like, I'm staring at your right hand, and you just got this crazy, crazy, cool technique.

-And just so-- -You know, it's funny.

I don't know that I exactly got that from anybody, but there are definitely some people that I got that from.

One is, you know, right over there, out playing right now, Sam Bush.

Always loved the way he played with his right hand.

And, of course, right hand technique on guitar is pretty different in a lot of people.

Until you really get into it, you might not think about how think about how different it is playing single strings at a time versus playing double strings like here on the mandolin.

And it really affects the way that your pick hits.

You can kind of brush across the strings on the mandolin, and it's really easy to stay, kind of on top of the strings.

But with the guitar, there's this real tendency to kind of dig down into it.

And so I think watching Sam and the way he played that, something about the way he played the mandolin, and I really liked on the guitar.

But and the other one that you were playing with Stevie Ray Vaughn, like earlier, big influence.

I mean, his right hand technique is unbelievable.

Because Stevie Ray Vaughn, he looks like he's doing this, but he's like... ♪ ♪ ♪ He's picking out individual notes.

And I just, I love that, like the idea of trying to be that free when you're doing this, where you've got your whole arm and you can really just sort of relax everything.

So yeah, to me, it's all about trying to stay relaxed, and that's the hardest thing, because everything, maybe it's like life, everything we do tenses us up and makes us nervous and thinking too much and trying too hard.

And you play the best when everything is just loose and fluid.

And I remember seeing players doing that when I was a little kid me, where they like, "Why is that guy doing that on stage?

Does he think that looks cool?"

And like, if you ever see me doing this on stage, it ain't, because I think it looks cool.

It's because I'm trying to loosen my arm up, because, like, once you start getting tension, you can't play right, you know.

So, yeah, so staying loose is a huge part of it.

-Absolutely.

-Absolutely, and, you know, and being able to play with-- because you've been through this yourself, it's like, you know, you're step-- you don't know what you're stepping into.

But if you see a bunch of [indistinct] who are like, I know that these guys are okay with me messing up.

-[James] Yeah.

-That's like, -the most awesome feeling.

-[James] Absolutely.

-It's like, "Oh, I'm a lot looser going in knowing that it's okay if I mess up."

-[James] Yeah, yeah.

-than I'm like, "Oh man, I had to play that melody exactly right at 180."

-Well, and I'll tell you know what, the reason you're watching this show, I bet, is because of exactly what I love about Brandon, because what he's saying right there is exactly the way that he clearly runs this show.

Because we didn't rehearse this, we didn't talk about it.

What we're going to talk about, we didn't, you know.

And it's just you let it happen.

And there's a beauty in that, there really is, so.

-Oh, thanks, man.

It's-- Why BS about it.

It's kind of, -[James] That's right.

-That's how I feel.

-Let's just, you know, be honest and put it out there, you know.

You--the stuff that you've, like anybody's heard me do in the studio.

I mean, I don't think I've ever really cut anything one take perfect.

-Okay.

Yeah.

-Yeah.

But, you know, it'll come out as a conglomeration.

-[James] Yeah, yeah.

-You know, so the truth-- the truth of it all is we're all evolving, we're all learning, we're all growing, we're all fixing, we're all messing up.

-Yeah, well, it's funny.

I feel like people who aren't musicians can maybe relate to the recording studio a little bit better now with all the technology we have, because almost nobody just gets up in the morning, takes a picture of themselves and throws it up on social media.

They like, put on like, their nice glasses, and they do a little eyeliner and some and then they like, get the lighting around, and they're like, "I just remember wrinkles look good here."

And then they put a filter on it.

Like, that's what the recording studio is like.

Like, that's what we do to our guitars and voices in the recording studio.

It's just like taking, like, a glorified selfie.

As opposed to this, which is, like, this is what we actually look like when we wake up in the morning.

So we're doing the best we can.

-This is the real McCoy right here.

And, you know, I was--I kind of wanted this show to have that same kind of feel that freedom.

-Yeah, yeah.

-And this is just awesome.

I'm totally enjoying this.

I really don't know, I-- though, I should say more, but the truth is, I want to hear you play more and hear you -do whatever you feel like, man.

-Yeah, let's some more.

Sure.

Sure.

Well, we and we talked-- so real life is like I said.

We were just--we blew it out yesterday up on the hillside, and I didn't pace myself.

And so we aren't going to sing a couple of tunes that we were going to do, because I'm all but, but why don't we were talking about doing a little bit of My Guitar Gently Weeps, just because we both love that song.

And I think it's probably a bad idea to try to sing it at whatever morning hour this is, but maybe we should just pick it a little bit.

-Yeah, and we'll just, you know, head nodded, you know.

-[James] Yeah.

-I guess go through, like, you know, through the minor and the major, head nod it.

-Yeah.

And we'll just hear, listen to each other play.

And to me, the beauty of it is that I really don't know what he's going to play, and you don't know what I'm going to play and we're going to react to that.

-Exactly.

I have no clue.

-[James] Yeah.

-And I'm gonna try my best not to do one of those, you hear somebody do something insane that comes like, -"Oh crap, I want to do that."

-[James] Yeah, yeah.

-So I'm gonna try to not do that.

So this is my effort for that.

-Okay.

-You want to take the first one, -I'll take the second one or?

-Sure.

Yeah.

-We're coming together?

-Yeah.

Why not?

-Okay.

♪ ♪ ♪ -Yeah.

-Okay.

Whether we did that in minor eighth.

♪ ♪ ♪ [guitars strumming] [guitars strumming continues] [guitars strumming continues] [guitars strumming continues] [guitars strumming continues] -[Brandon] Yeah, man.

♪ ♪ ♪ Yeah, well done.

♪ ♪ ♪ [guitars strumming continues] Missed that note.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I look at the world and I notice it's turning ♪ ♪ While my guitar gently weeps ♪ -Soft voice but you gotta try and sing with me because it's beautiful.

♪ With every mistake ♪ -Yeah, man.

♪ We must surely be learning ♪ ♪ While my guitar gently weeps ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [guitars strumming continues] [guitars strumming continues] -[Male VO] Thank you for being a part of our show.

We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of The Life Of A Musician.

♪ ♪ ♪ -[James] Yeah, Brandon.

♪ ♪ ♪ -[Announcer] This program is brought to you in part by Santa Cruz Guitar Company and Santa Cruz Parabolic Tension Strings.

-[Host VO] Also brought to you by Paige Capos and by Peluso Microphone Lab.

Additional support provided by these sponsors.