ANNOUNCER: This program is brought to you in part by the City of Danville's Office of Economic Development and Tourism.

And by Santa Cruz Guitars and Santa Cruz Guitar Strings.

Additional support provided by these sponsors.

Hello, and welcome to The Life of a Musician, recorded live in the beautiful city of Danville, Virginia.

Tonight's episode is recorded from The Bee Hotel.

Let's step inside and listen.

[catchy guitar music] -♪ I was born a stubborn soul ♪ ♪ Ain't afraid of The great unknown ♪ ♪ Or a winding road That's all uphill ♪ ♪ This is just A stumbling block ♪ ♪ Intimidating wall of rock ♪ ♪ If you think this broken heart Will break my will ♪ ♪ I'm gonna take that mountain ♪ ♪ Ain't nothing gonna Slow me down ♪ ♪ And there ain't No way around it ♪ ♪ Gonna leave it level With the ground ♪ ♪ I ain't just gonna cross it, Climb it, fight it ♪ ♪ I'm gonna take that mountain ♪ ♪ It's overwhelming looking up ♪ ♪ Knowing It's the challenge of ♪ ♪ Me against This heartache to survive ♪ ♪ I may slip and I may fall ♪ ♪ But even if I have to crawl ♪ ♪ I'll break through To the healing side ♪ ♪ I'm gonna take that mountain ♪ ♪ Ain't nothing Gonna slow me down ♪ ♪ And there ain't No way around it ♪ ♪ Gonna leave it level With the ground ♪ ♪ I ain't just gonna cross it, Climb it, fight it ♪ ♪ I'm gonna take that mountain ♪ [instrumental music] ♪ Ain't just gonna cross it, Climb it, fight it ♪ ♪ Yeah yeah ♪ ♪ I'm gonna take that mountain ♪ ♪ Ain't nothing gonna Slow me down ♪ ♪ And there ain't No way around it ♪ ♪ Gonna leave it level With the ground ♪ ♪ I ain't just gonna cross it, Climb it, fight it ♪ ♪ I'm gonna take that mountain ♪ ♪ I was born a stubborn soul ♪ ♪ This is just A stumbling block ♪ ♪ I'm gonna take that mountain ♪ -Now that's what I'm talking about.

Good job, man.

That's how you pull it off, as they say.

That's why they pay you the big bucks.

-Right.

-Hello, folks, and welcome to The Life of Musician .

I am your host, Brandon Lee Adams.

And we're coming to you from The Bee Hotel in Danville, Virginia.

And I am having a ball with and really, really just love and cuttin' up with the astounding, the amazing, the talented, Mr. Jerry Salley.

-Thank you, Brandon.

It's good to be with you, brother.

-It's good to have you here, and thank you and your lovely wife, Erin, for coming all the way from Nashville, Tennessee, to be with us down here.

-We're glad to be here.

Beautiful area.

-So, one of the big things that, when I think about your name comes up, or a lot of times, your name will come up to me when I'm listening to a song and I'm like, holy crap, that is a really good song.

Where did that come from?

And then, I'm a nerd.

I'll open up, you know, album covers, or I'll go and look at liner notes and things like that, and I'll go down and I'll look Jerry Salley, or Jay Salley, you know, and it just keeps popping up.

Oh, okay, well, there's a reason that I like that song.

There must be something to this Jay Salley fella.

So, you know, tell the folks back home just a little bit about you.

-Well, I was born in a little town called Chillicothe, Ohio, in the south-central part of the state.

And my father was a banjo player.

He was not a professional banjo player, but he was really good.

He actually was a paper mill worker, an electrician at the Mead Paper there in Chillicothe.

But I grew up around bluegrass and gospel and country music, and he was a big inspiration to me wanting to be a player.

And he got me my first guitar when I was six.

And fortunately, I'm a whole lot better than I was when I was six, but I learned how to play well enough to write songs, and that's really what I wanted to do as I was growing up.

-What was it about songwriting, you know, that led you to it?

-Well, I was a nerd too.

I loved to read all of these credits on the back of these records when I was growing up, and I would study, if something moved me that I thought was really great, I'd want to know who the songwriter was.

I became a huge fan of Tom T. Hall when I was growing up.

He really was kind of the inspiration or one of the biggest inspirations for me wanting to be a songwriter.

And I started writing songs when I was 16, and had my first song recorded when I was 18.

A regional artist in Ohio recorded a song I had written, and that's kind of lit my fire, so to speak, that made me want to really pursue this.

-Well, you know, it's the little things that turn into the big things.

Like you said, "lit your fire" is the perfect, you know, euphemism for that.

-Yeah.

-You know, and, you know, you talk about Tom T. What was it in particular?

Can you put your finger on anything about Tom?

-Well, just the way he told a story, you know.

He was known, of course, as The Storyteller.

And as a kid, we didn't have computers, obviously, and laptops and all that stuff.

So, to learn songs to sing on stage, I'd have to write them all out by hand, you know.

So, I would literally study as I wrote these lyrics out, how he put a song together.

And he was a unique songwriter too, especially for the time that he was popular.

You know, about any songwriting book or seminar you'll go to, they'll talk about writing the verse and then writing the chorus, which is very important if you want to do commercial music.

But a lot of times, big songs early on especially, didn't even have a chorus.

There was just one verse after another telling a story.

And so, that really intrigued me, and I just love the way he put a song together.

Years later, I would get to meet Tom T. and Dixie, his wife, and become really good friends and get to go to Fox Hollow a lot and be, you know, we became really good friends, and I always just loved him to pieces.

-Well, speaking of the Tom T. influence and the things that, you know, you got from him that led you to this path of writing.

There's a song in particular that you did that I think you want to talk a little bit about.

-Yeah.

I wrote a song several years ago.

I love to write story songs, obviously, after having that kind of influence, you know, and that is my favorite kind of song to write.

And years ago, I wrote a song that a young lady named Alecia Nugent, I know you know Alecia real well.

She actually had a signature hit with this song.

And Tom T. was a big fan of Alecia's, and years later, he would tell me, he said, "Man, that Paper and Pen you wrote," he said, "that's my favorite song you ever wrote."

-Wow.

-And that meant the world to me, you know.

-It doesn't really get any bigger than that.

-Well, it just did my heart good.

And again, just getting to know him and Ms. Dixie both was just one of the greatest honors of my career.

-Wow.

I mean, that's just...

I don't know what else to say to that other than let me tune the top string up... Close enough for government work.

And would you honor us with doing some of that Paper and Pen please.

-I would love to.

I'd love to do it for you.

-Thank you.

Thank you.

-Here we go.

♪ There's a letter In a shoe box ♪ ♪ In a dresser She keeps locked ♪ ♪ But she's never read it All the way through ♪ ♪ It was the last one He wrote her ♪ ♪ She was sure it was over ♪ ♪ From all that he told her In the first line or two ♪ ♪ He said times are hard now ♪ ♪ Got some things left To sort out ♪ ♪ And a man and his freedom Don't easily part ♪ ♪ That's where She stopped reading ♪ ♪ Her soul was bleeding ♪ ♪ So she choose her weapon and Went straight for his heart ♪ ♪ With paper and pen She got her last words in ♪ ♪ I never loved you Was the lie she wrote him ♪ ♪ He couldn't believe The reply he received ♪ ♪ What a sad tragedy For good love to end ♪ ♪ Who needs a knife when You can take someone's life ♪ ♪ With paper and pen ♪ ♪ Well, they say he went crazy ♪ ♪ In just a few days He got on the bottle ♪ ♪ And went out of his mind ♪ ♪ To this day she don't know ♪ ♪ In the letter that he wrote ♪ ♪ He asked for her hand In the very last line ♪ ♪ With paper and pen She got her last words in ♪ ♪ I never loved you Was the lie she wrote him ♪ ♪ He couldn't believe The reply he received ♪ ♪ What a sad tragedy For good love to end ♪ ♪ Who needs a knife when You can take someone's life ♪ ♪ With paper and pen ♪ ♪ Oh, who needs a knife when You can take someone's life ♪ ♪ With paper and pen ♪ -I'll tell you what, Jerry.

That song proves you're not just a songwriter, you're a pretty damn good singer, too, man.

-Well, thank you.

-That's all right.

Good rhythm picker.

-Thank you, sir.

-Just a fine gentlemen all around.

-You're a good man.

Thank you.

-Well, you know, that's such a powerful song.

And it's, you know, and I've been hearing it for a while, you know, in the bluegrass genre of music, but that's one that could cross over.

-Well, you know, it was... we actually wrote it as a country song.

-Yeah.

-And, you know, country music, back when we wrote it in the '90s, no one recorded it.

And of course, as country music changed, it's probably what they call "too country" now for country music these days.

But I always thought it could make a good country song as well.

-Well, it's fantastic.

I think a great song... it's just interpretation.

You know, you've got a great melody and a great song.

It's just whatever... you could make it into anything.

-I mean, I honestly, I do think Tim McGraw or Luke Bryan or somebody like that could really just produce it, right.

Could give Jerry a big old check.

-Yeah, absolutely.

Now, Tim and Luke, you know, if you're watching, Jerry's in town.

-You can produce that thing now just right.

-Well, you know, and you've done so many.

How many just recorded songs is it that you've had?

-I've had over 500 different songs recorded in my career.

-Wow.

-Yeah, I've been blessed, man.

-Yeah, well, you know, you've had a good hand guiding you, and you've done the most with what you had.

And I know you work hard.

-I do.

I'm a hard worker.

I've told people years ago, I'll never be the best songwriter in Nashville, but nobody's going to outwork me.

It's a matter of, you know, there's a business side to it, too.

That's why they call it the music business.

-Right.

-I really believe in relationships and cultivating those relationships and, you know, just treating people right.

-Right.

That goes to longevity.

And that's always advice.

If somebody younger who's trying to get started out talks to me and says, what would be advice, I'd say, you know, always be on time and treat people decent.

-Absolutely.

You just never know when you meet someone, you don't know necessarily who they are or where they're going to end up.

And so, you're really better off to treat them in a good way.

-Yeah, yeah.

They might end up, you know, owning the album that you want to be on.

-That's exactly right.

-Well, you know, your writing is so diverse, you know, you've got three genres that you really had a lot of success in.

You know, country... on the country side.

Just tell us just a few of the country artists.

-Well, I've had songs recorded by everybody from Chris Stapleton to Reba McEntire, Patty Loveless, Loretta Lynn, Tracy Lawrence, Toby Keith, Darryl Worley, I mean, the Oak Ridge Boys.

I've been really blessed.

Big hits with John Anderson.

-Yeah.

-And Wade Hayes.

And I just, you know, I don't-- I just can't get over it sometimes, when I look back at some of it, you know, that it really happened to me.

-Yeah, it's like it happened to somebody else.

-Yeah, that's right.

-Somebody else you don't know.

Who is that guy?

-Yeah.

-Well, you know, that's just a testament to you... just hard work and sticking to it and, you know, really working on your craft.

What would be some of the advice that you would give like a young songwriter?

-If a song moves you, you know, write out the lyrics by hand, study the lyrics, try to figure out what it is, and sometimes it's a melody that moves you.

But, what is that about that particular song that makes you feel that emotion that you feel?

Any time you can make somebody laugh or cry, man, you've done your job.

You want to make somebody feel something.

And the other thing that I would encourage folks, young people especially, starting out who want to write, is to try to gravitate to a mentor or someone, you know, who can help you along.

I was very blessed, early on in my career, to have people like Carl Jackson and Jim Rushing and Jim McBride, Doodle Owens, who became mentors.

And they taught me, I mean, I had the basic talent, I guess you'd say, to put a song together and know what a rhyme scheme is and that sort of thing.

But they taught me to dig, they taught me to get into here.

And because this is where it comes from.

You know, you can learn how to technically rhyme and verse, chorus, bridge, you know, put the structure together, but man, you've got to dig down.

And everything's been written about.

Every subject in the world has been written about.

You have to find a different way to say the same thing.

And that's not easy.

-No, absolutely not.

-So, I spend a lot of my time just digging for good ideas to, you know, and something unique to talk about or a unique story to tell, that sort of thing.

But it's not an easy, you know, it's not an easy gig.

And that's why when I look back, I just realize that I feel like God had His hand on me, you know, and blessed me in a way that I didn't deserve, for sure, but in a way that I'm always going to be grateful for.

-Yeah, I hear you.

I hear you.

And that's, you know, that's an honest and good way to look at it, you know, just being honest with yourself about things.

That help us get to where we're going, I believe.

-And that goes back to song writing, too, you know.

I know for a fact, I don't know that I was always honest with myself, but I hope I was.

But you've got to be honest with your songs, too.

You have to recognize this isn't really as good as I thought it was going to be.

So, let's move on to something else.

-You mean they're not all hits?

-They're not all hits, unfortunately, no.

-Well, that's just awful.

I'm not going to go out and write a hit for, you know, Chris tonight.

-I wish.

-There you go, there you go.

I'll tell you what, that's so many things that you've accomplished, so many things that you have done in your career.

And it's a testament to, I think, your hard work and your values.

Can you talk a little bit about, you know, some of the accomplishments that you've had in each genre?

You know, country, bluegrass, gospel?

-Well, again, I don't like talking about myself a whole lot.

-But that's why you're here.

-I have been-- but I have been blessed.

My first recordings was in bluegrass and gospel before I started having some country success.

But in the late 1980s, I won a Dove Award for a song called His Strength is Perfect , that I wrote with Stephen Curtis Chapman.

That song was actually put in the Baptist hymnal in 2009, and we're working on the Methodists now and the Presbyterians and everybody else, but- -I hear you.

-But we-- so, I've won a Dove Award in gospel and had several number ones.

In 2003, I was the SESAC Country Songwriter of the Year.

And a lot of that was based on the success of the song we did earlier I'm Gonna Take That Mountain that Reba recorded and had a hit with.

I've also been the IBMA International Bluegrass Music Association Songwriter of the Year in 2018 and '19, and I'm up for that again this year.

So, that's been a real blessing.

One of the most exciting things that's ever happened to me, a couple of years ago, I produced an album, a multi-artist album called Gonna Sing, Gonna Shout .

And it's a bluegrass gospel album, and it ended up being nominated for a Grammy Award.

It was in the five finalists of the Grammy Awards, and that's the first time I've ever been, you know, nominated as a producer.

And then, the most recent thing that is this-- meant the world to me, matter of fact, when they called to tell me, I just kind of fell apart to know I was even nominated.

But in 2019, I was nominated for the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, and I didn't make it in, but that's okay.

It was just the fact that they even thought I was worthy of the nomination.

Just really, any time that your peers recognize you like that, it just-- it meant the world to me.

-Jerry, I want to say thank you so very, very much for being with us on this episode of The Life of a Musician .

-Well, I thank you, Brandon, because I have really enjoyed your hospitality and the chance to do this with you.

-And we're going to have you back on yet another episode... -JERRY: All right.

-...right after this.

But I want to say thanks to the folks back home for watching The Life of a Musician, and be well and God bless.

And we'll let Mr. Salley talk a little bit about this tune, and just take us out with it.

-Yeah, this is a song that I wrote several years ago.

It was actually a big number-one gospel hit for a group called The Talleys.

And since then, it has been recorded by a few other people.

But it was actually written as a country song that became a gospel hit for me.

So, it's called The Broken Ones .

-Awesome.

[mellow guitar music] -♪ Maggie came home one day With a raggedy, Raggedy Ann ♪ ♪ She said "Mama, Lookie here what I found ♪ ♪ In the neighbor's Garbage can" ♪ ♪ It had a missing left arm, And a right button eye ♪ ♪ Hangin' by a thread ♪ ♪ She carried it gently Up to her room ♪ ♪ And laid it on her bed ♪ ♪ With her other dolls ♪ ♪ She loves the broken ones ♪ ♪ The ones that need A little patchin' up ♪ ♪ She looks for diamonds in The rough ♪ ♪ And makes them Shine like new ♪ ♪ It really doesn't Take that much ♪ ♪ A willing heart And a tender touch ♪ ♪ If everybody loved Like she does ♪ ♪ There'd be a lot less Broken ones ♪ ♪ Twenty years later in A shelter on Eighteenth Avenue ♪ ♪ A seventeen year old girl Turns up all black and blue ♪ ♪ With needle tracks In her left arm ♪ ♪ Almost too weak to stand ♪ ♪ She says, "I'm lost And I need help" ♪ ♪ As Maggie takes her hand ♪ ♪ And says, "Come on in!"

♪ ♪ She loves the broken ones ♪ ♪ The ones that need A little patchin' up ♪ ♪ She looks for diamonds In the rough ♪ ♪ And makes them Shine like new ♪ ♪ It really doesn't Take that much ♪ ♪ A willing heart And a tender touch ♪ ♪ If everybody loved Like she does ♪ ♪ There'd be a lot less Broken ones ♪ [mellow guitar music] ♪ If you called her an angel She'd be quick to say to you ♪ ♪ She's just doing what the one Who died for her would do ♪ ♪ Love the broken ones ♪ ANNOUNCER: Thank you for being a part of our show.

We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of The Life of a Musician.

-♪ And makes them Shine like new ♪ ♪ It really doesn't Take that much ♪ ♪ A willing heart And a tender touch ♪ ♪ If everybody loved Like she does ♪ ♪ There'd be a lot less Broken ones ♪ ♪ If everybody loved Like she does ♪ ANNOUNCER: This program is brought to you in part by the City of Danville's Office of Economic Development and Tourism.

And by Santa Cruz Guitars and Santa Cruz Guitar Strings.

Additional support provided by these sponsors.

[music fades out]