ANNOUNCER: This program is brought to you in part by the City of Danville's Office of Economic Development and Tourism.

And by Santa Cruz Guitars... and Santa Cruz Guitar Strings.

Additional support provided by these sponsors.

Hello, and welcome to The Life Of A Musician , recorded live in the beautiful city of Danville, Virginia.

Tonight's episode is recorded from the Gerst House.

Let's step inside and listen.

-Hello, folks, and welcome to the Life of a Musician .

I am lucky enough to be sitting here next to the legendary iconic Mr. John McEuen of Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Parts Unknown fame.

And it's awesome to have you here, John.

Thank you so much for being part of the show.

I wanted to ask, what is the thing-- what's something that got you into the other icon, the amazing, the incomparable Mr. Doc Watson?

-Well, in the middle '60s, before the Dirt Band started, he did an album called Newport-- Live at Newport , and he had a song on there called Tickling the Strings.

It's actually called Finger Buster.

I think you know it.

-I'm on it, I'll give it a shot.

-Let's give it a shot.

-All right.

[instrumental music] -Go up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

[♪♪♪] Bring it on.

[♪♪♪] Yeah.

Oh, boy.

[♪♪♪] Do that again.

[♪♪♪] Ha-ha.

Oh, yeah.

[♪♪♪] Huh?

Was that good enough?

-That is truly a finger buster .

-Yeah.

-That's real fun.

And really-- -Yeah, I heard him playing it on the festival record.

He did that in Deep River Blues , and six months later, he was on TV, and my father-- I was in the living room, and my dad said, "How a guy like that gets on television, I don't understand."

And that's when I realized there's a generation gap.

-Right.

-But he didn't understand.

And I think I did.

It was on the Hootenanny show by Linkletter.

-And that was-- yeah, that was a great program.

I've seen somebody like Clarence White on the Hootenanny , the old reruns of that.

Just-- I imagine seeing Doc on that.

You have witnessed and created so much.

And I'll just-- I'll say this.

You know, it's throughout the world, people are listening to it.

But the music that you have participated in and helped create and witnessed, has been part of like, you know, just generations of musical fiber for this country.

-I've been very fortunate.

I lived my dream, and it came true.

I wanted to meet Earl Scruggs someday because I was playing banjo.

I started at 17 and listening to Earl Scruggs records, and by the time I was 19, my brother and I made our way to Nashville to see the Grand Ole Opry.

And Flatt and Scruggs came out on the stage, I was looking in the north window.

And Lester Flatt says, "We'd like to bring out Mama Maybelle Carter to do the Wildwood Flower ."

And the place went crazy.

I was standing by the north windows because it was sold out.

But that was a wonderful thing.

Earl Scruggs came out, Maybelle, everybody's there.

And that's when I said to my brother, watching him, I want to record with those people someday.

-Absolutely.

And you made that happen.

And one of the big things that I wanted to talk about on this episode is this amazing book that you've written that is soon to be out.

What can you tell us about it?

-The book is a collection of my brother's photographs.

Bill McEuen produced the album, managed the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, and shot most of the old photographs of the Dirt Band.

Like in the '66, '67, '68, '69, '70, '71.

And the book has, oh, about 40 of those.

And it has all the photos from the sessions that he took, also.

And they're in a big size.

And on the album, they're so small, you can barely see them, you know.

I see Roy Acuff and Earl Scruggs and Vassar Clements, Junior Huskey, Norman Blake, Maybelle Carter.

They were all there, Jimmy Martin and Merle Travis.

And this is a collection of the photographs to where you could see the-- what they're doing.

And I tell the story behind every photograph, the story of what's happening in it.

And that's really, really fun to do.

It was-- it took me two years to put it together.

-Well, I can only imagine.

I know some of the early things that I've seen.

I have totally enjoyed learning little things like, you know, the Carter Scratch, you know, the term "The Carter Scratch" or Mother Maybelle's style of playing.

And I remember when I was a kid, you know, if you couldn't play Mother Maybelle's music, you were just not a musician.

-Her song Wildwood Flower reached almost every guitar player that was learning music.

-Yeah.

-You know?

And Earl Scruggs was influenced greatly by Maybelle Carter.

He got a lot of his timing and ideas, and some of the licks from the Carter style.

And he liked to play Carter-style guitar.

And on the sessions, we had him play guitar on You Are My Flower and a couple of the Maybelle Carter songs.

And she played autoharp on Wildwood Flower .

He played guitar.

And that was a magical moment for me because I had gotten a-- in the middle '60s, Louise Scruggs put together, Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs do songs with the famous Carter Family.

And before the Dirt Band started, that was my introduction to the Carter Family music.

And it was great.

It was a good album.

But we ought to see what Maybelle Carter was like.

Let me play you something on the screen and put up Maybelle Carter.

This is Maybelle in the studio talking to this young group of, well, she called us The Dirty Boys, you know.

She didn't say Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.

She goes, "Oh, those Dirty Boys, they're really nice guys."

And she was giving us an insight into what she was all about, and talking about what she was going to do.

Maybelle Carter.

MAN: Maybelle, will you stay tuned like that for all the things we're doing right now?

MAYBELLE CARTER: I may do Wildwood Flower on the autoharp if you all don't mind.

I've never recorded it on the autoharp, and I've done it with a guitar about a dozen times.

But-- and I do it in F standard, you know.

MAN: And you'll do it F. MAYBELLE CARTER: And I'll probably do it in F standard key on the autoharp.

And Thinkin' Tonight of My Blue Eyes , I'll have to do it same place.

MAN: Right there.

MAYBELLE CARTER: Yeah.

And then I don't know where we'll do Will the Circle be Unbroken?

If everybody sings it, you just, you know, get the key that suits everybody.

MAN: Maybelle, do you remember the old ending you folks put on that thing?

MAYBELLE CARTER: I know I started on the old record; I started it like this.

-It's still selling.

Did I mention it's on three Amazon charts in the top 20?

For two years?

Thank you, Ken Burns.

But it's-- you know how it started?

-You know, just let-- just tell me how it started.

I know how it started because I've been reading the books.

-Oh, yeah.

You got an early book.

-I got an early copy, so I don't want to give it away.

-Oh, okay.

Well, Earl Scruggs had come to see us in 1970, and it was like December.

Well, he came to see us because Gary Scruggs, his oldest son, had heard Mr. Bojangles on the radio and he thought, that group really sounds like something Daddy would like.

And he went to get a copy of Bojangle s at the record store.

And they were-- they didn't have any, they were out of it, but they had the album.

He got the album, he played the cut, and he goes, I'm going to go play this for Dad.

He noticed, as he is going to the house, that it had Randy Lynn Rag on there, one of Earls' songs that I burned up on the banjo.

He didn't have a chance to listen to it, you know.

And it had Shelly's Blues , which started with the banjo.

Which he didn't know.

And anyway, he got the album to the house and he played Mr. Bojangles .

Earl, "That's really nice."

And then he played Shelly's Blues with the banjo frailing.

And, "Well, that's even better."

And then he played Randy Lynn Rag , which was a rippin' bluegrass tune that I was really proud of.

One take we did that song in.

-That's pretty hard to do.

-And he said to Gary, I'd like to meet that boy that played that song.

And that was-- we were playing at Vanderbilt about a month and a half later.

And Gary had to arrange with the Grand Ole Opry to have the day off.

You know, they could have the night off, so they could go to the concert.

And they came, and Jimmie Fadden and I are there with a roadie.

We're setting up early, as we usually did.

And all the students were walking around going, Earl Scruggs is coming tonight.

Hey, did you hear that The Scruggs Family is coming?

Earl Scruggs and I-- well, that'd be nice, but I was just hoping to get to see him at the Opry again.

-Right.

-Hadn't seen him for five years, and... Oh, he's not coming.

Nah, he's not coming.

And what's funny is, I was in the dressing room, and I heard this... knock on the dressing room door.

I opened it up.

It's the entire Scruggs Family standing there.

And Earl goes, "Hi, I'm Earl Scruggs."

I say, "Yes, I know.

I know you're Earl Scruggs."

And I close it-- I said, give me a minute, and I close the door.

And I said to my brother, "Earl Scruggs and his whole family is out there."

I go, "Please come in."

And they all came in, and Earl sat down.

And if you go to my website, my brother was very clever as a manager.

He shot pictures, he did promotions for the band, did a 78 of Mr. Bojangles, and sent it to 2,000 radio stations.

The 78, and he followed a week later with a 45.

-Wow.

-All the radio stations got the 78.

What are we going to do with this?

You know, because he plays 78, 78 RPM, 78 times around a minute.

And anyway, they got the 45, and they played that.

But one of the things he did back then and this is 1970, he had a portable video camera, portable.

It was the Sony, you know, weighed about 150 pounds, and it shot in black and white.

And he's got this whole meeting of Earl Scruggs meeting the Dirt Band that first time.

And it's on videotape.

And we're going to post it on my website for people that get the book, so they can see what that magic moment was like.

And Earl picked, I picked, I did Randy Lynn Rag , and he told me, I just wanted to meet the boy that played Randy Lynn Rag the way I intended to.

-Wow!

-And I'm like, "Oh, well, that's me, sir."

And-- anyway, he said, "I hope we record together sometime.

Or we should record, or we should..." you know, it was a very friendly departure.

And we opened the show with Foggy Mountain Breakdown , and Gary told me later that he really perked up.

And then, we did, our first encore was, or the second one, because it was a hot night.

The band was really hot then.

Really good.

Our second encore was Fo ggy Mountain Breakdown , too, because we just did it again.

Because... "in honor of Earl Scruggs being in the audience, we're going to do this song again," you know.

And I made friends with him over the next six months.

And six months later, he was playing in Boulder, Colorado, at a club called Tulagi, playing there for a week.

And I went there every night.

I was living in... just moved to Colorado.

And it was great hanging out with them.

I didn't play with them then, you know.

-You're right.

-What am I going to do?

I'm one of thousands of banjo... Would you pick with me, Earl?

Well, now, and finally I'm driving back to the-- driving them back to the hotel one night.

Earl, it was the last night he was playing there.

"I want to ask you a question.

I really was wondering, would you-- would you consider-- do you think that-- would you maybe..." "What is it, John?"

I said, "Well, would you record with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band?"

And he said, "I'd be proud to."

And I almost drove off the road.

Well, I didn't, but I dropped him at his hotel and said, "Well, good night."

And Doc Watson was playing in the club a week later.

And I had a plan.

A few months earlier, Doc was playing in LA and I went to meet him.

Because this is Doc Watson, I didn't know him.

You know, I was just a kid in the music store, hanging around the music store with the other guys, listening to records.

And that Doc guy is really good, and I saw him on the TV show and, well, I went to meet him when he was playing in LA, and it was too crowded.

You know what I mean?

-Yeah, I've seen that.

-Too many people.

"How're you doing?

I gotta..." whatever.

But I met Merle Watson, his son, and we got along great.

And I said-- I mean, he thought we were stars because he had the Uncle Charlie album and he'd listen to the radio and-- but, you know, we were just making music, trying to survive in the music business.

And we got lucky and had some hits.

And anyway, Merle Watson...

I said, "Don't introduce me to your dad tonight.

You're going to be in Colorado in a few weeks or a couple of months.

I'm going to ask Earl Scruggs a week before you're there, if he'd record with us."

And Merle said, "Oh, that'd be a great idea, Daddy needs that.

Now, these crowds are getting smaller.

This folk music boom, this folk music scare is dying out."

And Doc was there the next week, and I walked up to Merle.

I saw him outside the club and I said, "Hey, Merle, Earl said 'Yes.'"

"Oh, I got to introduce you to Daddy."

And he took me upstairs, introduced me to Doc.

Oh, I was a little nervous asking Earl Scruggs to record.

-Right.

-But now, I was a little bolder.

Maybe it had to do with being in Boulder, I don't know.

But it was in Boulder, Colorado that I said, "Hello, Doc Watson.

I'm John McEuen with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, and we're making an album with Earl Scruggs.

I wanted you to-- I wanted to know if you'd be part of it."

And... "Well, if Earl's going to pick, I'd be proud to be there.

I want to be there," you know.

And anyway, he said, "I'm going to get Merle Travis."

And because we'd worked with him five years earlier, and he called Merle Travis and he said, "Yes, I've always wanted to meet Doc Watson."

And we told Doc Watson that Merle was in.

He goes, "I named my son after Merle Travis."

Merle Eddy.

Eddy Arnold was the other guy he named him after.

And Merle Eddy Travis.

And that was really magical.

Yeah, and Roy Acuff came along, too, thanks to Louise Scruggs and Earl Scruggs.

Earl lined up Maybelle Carter.

Louise got Jimmy Martin.

I asked Earl, "Have you found some fiddlers that could handle these different styles?"

Because it's like old-timey bluegrass country.

He says, "I found one man."

I said, "What's his name?"

He said, "Vassar Clements."

And that's a weird name.

I'd never heard that name before.

I'd heard Vassar's music.

I didn't know it because they didn't do album credits.

I didn't know he was on the Jim and Jesse album I loved.

I didn't know he was on Jimmy Martin, and Flatt and Scruggs, and Bill Monroe.

-Right.

-In fact, one time I was recording with Vassar five years later, or maybe ten, and I said, "Vassar, do you know the bridge of Uncle Pen ?

How do you play Uncle Pen ?"

And he played it, and I said, "That sounds just like the record.

Did you learn that off the record?"

He said, "John, that's me on that record, I was 17."

You know, "I wrote the bridge late in the evening, about sundown, you know," and something like that.

Or maybe Jimmy Martin wrote that.

But Vassar's imprint went way back.

And Earl, I said, "Can he handle it all?"

And Earl just said, "He'll do."

And, "Yes, sir."

-Vassar will do.

-Yes, sir, he'll do.

And we got to Nashville, and Earl took my brother and me to the Grand Ole Opry to introduce us to Junior Huskey.

We didn't have a bass player.

Well, we had a bass player.

-But... -And we walked out.

I mean, I'm on the Opry stage for the first time in my life.

I'm looking at the north windows that I first looked through to see Flatt and Scruggs five years earlier or six, and Junior Huskey is up there.

"Oh, Earl, good to see you.

Yeah, and I'm looking forward to playing..." He's playing with somebody that's on the Opry performing.

-Wow.

-You know, most of us, we didn't do that.

"Yeah, I cut my teeth on these songs.

I'm looking forward to-- just a second.

I'm looking forward..." You know, the guy had stopped, and I thought, well, this is the right bass player, and he really was the right one.

And Norman Blake came along.

I tried to get Josh Graves, but Josh called me.

I called him and he called me.

He called, "I gotta check with Lester."

Anyway, he called me a week before the sessions and said, "Oh, I'm sorry to say this, but Lester won't let me pick with Earl.

I'm on his salary."

He doesn't want-- and that's really sad.

But I got Josh on my albums later on, and so we got Norman Blake instead.

-Well, I mean, you did okay.

-Yeah.

-You know.

-And getting Roy Acuff.

Well, he'd said in the Nashville Tennessean , "I don't know if they're old boys or young men or what.

They're all covered with hair."

And we were.

I had a big beard and long-- well, I guess I still have long hair, but it was longer.

And it was a-- he didn't have to go along, but he went along with us, and of course, when he came in the studio, he didn't look that happy-- he was very-- Roy Acuff.

He looked very much like everybody had a right to his opinion.

-Well, he was Roy Acuff.

-But he was Roy Acuff.

And "What kind of music you boys call this?

Let me hear what you've been recording."

We played him four cuts.

He listened to four cuts in the control room.

Just like this.

Not moving a muscle.

When those four cuts that we'd previously recorded earlier in the week were done, he says, "Oh, what do you call that music?

And Appalachian bluegrass traditional.

"Well, hell, it ain't nothing but country music.

Let's go make some more."

And everybody cheered.

And we went out and recorded Wreck On The Highway.

And he poured out his heart on those songs.

-That might have been my favorite vocal on that album.

-Yeah, that was the first one we cut with him.

-Yeah.

-He gave us that little speech.

"Get it right the first time, and to hell with the rest of them."

And we had to, with him.

-Right.

-You know, oh, we did with most of the people, got it right the first time.

And when we started recording, the first one up was Merle Travis.

And we'd scheduled a three-hour session to do four or five songs.

He was done in an hour.

First did I Am a Pilgrim .

Three-minute song.

Three minutes later, it was done.

And since it was recorded two-track, it was done on a two-track tape recorder, it didn't have to be mixed.

And all of that is in the book, the process of making a record is described, the process of the rehearsals, rehearsing with Jimmy Martin.

That's a funny story.

And the effect that it had on people.

A bunch of people are quoted in this book about when I first heard The Circle album.

And I'm very proud of that.

We all are.

-Well, you should be.

It's one of the landmark albums in, really in the history of, you know, our nation's music.

I can't stress that enough.

It's such an important album.

-The dark side of the moon of bluegrass.

Dark side of the banjo.

-The dark side of the banjo, that's your next project.

John, thank you so very much for taking all this time to come down here and be on the show.

It truly means the world to us.

And I hope we can get you to come back again at a later date and do so.

-Well, thank you.

It's been nice visiting with you.

And the book is an incredible thing.

If you have The Circle album, you'll love the book because you just read it and play the record, and you're there.

-Can you give us the name of the book again?

- Will the Circle Be Unbroken 50th year Anniversary , The Making of a Landmark Album.

-See?

And that's perfect.

He just said what it is, and that's the title.

I love that.

Well, folks, thank you so very much for joining us again here on the Life of a Musician .

And as always, be blessed.

Be well, and we'll see you next time.

ANNOUNCER: Thank you for being a part of our show.

We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of The Life of a Musician.

[♪♪♪] JOHN: ♪ There's a dark and A troubled side of life ♪ ♪ There's a bright And sunny side too ♪ ANNOUNCER: This program is brought to you in part by the City of Danville's Office of Economic Development and Tourism.

JOHN: ♪ May the sunny side... ♪ And by Santa Cruz Guitars and Santa Cruz Guitar Strings.

JOHN: ♪ Keep on the sunny side ♪ ANNOUNCER: Additional support provided by these sponsors.

JOHN: ♪ Keep on the sunny side ♪