ANNOUNCER: This program is brought to you in part by the City of Danville's Office of Economic Development and Tourism.

And by Santa Cruz Guitars and Santa Cruz Guitar Strings.

Additional support provided by the sponsors.

Hello, and welcome to The Life Of A Musician, recorded live in the beautiful city of Danville, Virginia.

Tonight's episode is recorded from the W.F.

Patent House.

Let's step inside and listen.

["Soldier's Joy" instrumental music] -[chuckles] Nicely done.

Hello, and welcome to The Life Of A Musician .

I'm your host, Brandon Lee Adams.

And this is a show where we sit around with some amazing acoustic musicians, have a conversation, and play a few songs.

Today, my guest is Mr. Sammy Shelor from Lonesome River Band.

Five-time IBMA Banjo Player of the Year, winner of the Steve Martin Excellence in Banjo award, and all-around great bus mechanic and fantastic human being.

Hey, Sammy, how you doing, buddy?

-I'm doing great, Brandon.

Good to be here with you today.

-Well, it's good to be-- have you here.

We've been sitting around, just visiting and talking all day, and enjoying this great cold weather here in Virginia.

-Oh, yeah.

-It's a good drive.

So, one thing I wanted to get into it with you on is, I know that you got a family.

You got a wife, and you got kids, and you got a band and this, you know, insane schedule.

And COVID, I know, has slowed everybody down.

But how do you find a balance, you know, being a band leader, mechanic, dad, husband?

And how do you kind of make it all work in your world?

-It's-- it's difficult at times, but we make it work.

I've been on the road as a musician for 44 years.

And I-- I love what I do.

For one thing, I've never gotten tired of it.

After all these years, I still enjoy going out and making new friends and-- and getting to perform for, you know, bluegrass fans and trying to bring new bluegrass fans into the business.

It's... it can be a struggle sometimes, trying to keep the kids happy, and get the bus fixed when it needs to be ready to go.

And, you know, just, it takes a lot of hours of the day to make it all work.

But I enjoy every bit of it and-- and have a great time.

I live up in the hills around Floyd, Virginia.

And it's a quiet little place, and you don't have too many distractions other than family.

So, it-- you're able to kind of piece it all together and make it work.

Yeah.

-And then, it's-- it's true.

Like, you know, don't stop 'til you hear banjo.

That's true in your house.

-[Sammy laughs] -That's, that's, that's pretty amazing.

I know you've had this amazing career and you've accomplished so many amazing things.

But you remained this-- this fella that anybody can walk up to off the street and say, "Hi, how you doing?"

And that's one thing I've always admired about you.

-Well, bluegrass is a smaller market music, you know.

We're not in the commercial realm of things.

And you know, the-- the percentages of the American public that listen to bluegrass on a regular basis is-- is pretty small, but it's still a thriving music and a thriving marketplace for what we do.

And, uh, but I grew up in a little place west of here called Meadows of Dan, Virginia.

And when you grow up in a rural setting, and, um, you depend on your neighbors and the neighbors depend on you, and you start, you know, you grow up being very social with everybody, and that's just the way I've always been.

And, uh, I love getting to talk to people and making new friends, and there's so many friends I have in my life that I would have never had hadn't it been for music, you know, and-- and important friends.

So, we just keep-- keep making those new friends.

It's what we do.

And you know, hopefully, I got another 15 years or so to get out here and do this and-- and I keep-- keep plugging at it.

-Well, I know it's-- I know that everybody who picked up a band will ever hope the same thing about that.

I know it's one of those things I've been listening to you for-- for quite a while, and I don't want to date myself or make you feel old.

But I remember one of the first shows, live shows that I ever got to see, was the original, you know, lineup of the band Lonesome River Band.

-Right.

Which really wasn't the original lineup.

That was ten years into the-- the formation of the band when I joined.

And we-- I joined in 1990.

And at that time, Tim Austin, from right down here in Ruffin, North Carolina, had started the band in '82.

And I started in 1990, and there had been probably 25 players to the band before I ever joined.

So, it-- it had been around for a while.

And-- but Dan Tyminski was in the band when I joined.

And I joined at the same time as Ronnie Bowman.

And it just seemed the combination of that four really struck a chord with people.

And we had a-- had a good run there for a while.

-I mean, I know that you guys, at least in my mind, you guys kind of defined this-- this new 'drive' for lack of a better word, this-- this bounce or pop.

-Right.

-Uh... that... one thing I've always admired and somehow I've been dying to ask you actually.

This is the question I've been dying to ask you.

So, when I listen to the Lonesome River Band record, you know, and it's no doubt that you're the one, you drive it, you know, you-- you are the-- the heartbeat that keeps that going.

But it doesn't matter what speed the song is at.

-Right.

-You know, you guys can play something that's, you know, 85 beats a minute.

-Mm-hm.

-But you still have that intention to get in that pop in-- in whatever you do.

Or do bringing in the Georgia Mail , you know, at 2:20 or whatever you do with that.

-Right.

Right.

-Um... -Not that fast anymore.

-No, I can play rhythm to that.

But how do, you know, what do you think or how is it that you go about keeping that just intense push?

-It's a field that kind of developed in this area of the country.

Seems like Western North Carolina, Southwest Virginia, East Tennessee, and Eastern Kentucky.

This-- there's a pocket right here of musicians that kind of... we were influenced by a lot of different things besides bluegrass.

And I've always described Lonesome River Band as a-- as a bluegrass-- traditional bluegrass band with a rock and roll downbeat.

And, you know, you listen to old Stevie Ray Vaughan records and old rock and roll records, that downbeat was always just on the front edge all the time.

And-- but they-- there's a, there's a fine line between pushing something to the front edge and speeding up.

And that's what you have to learn is how to feel that and-- and be able to play that pocket and, and give it that energy and be able to push and pull it, you know, around the time to-- to create that energy.

-Speaking of that kind of drive or that kind of push, um, let's try a traditional number on Salt Creek.

-Mm-hm.

-And see if we can demonstrate that Sammy Shelor, you know, push.

And I'll do my best to follow behind you.

-All right.

["Salt Creek" instrumental music] -That was Salt Creek .

-Yeah, that's a mighty fine picking in sync.

-[Sammy laughs] -As they say.

That's, that's what I'm talking about right there, man.

-Yeah.

That kind of demonstrates how you weave around the timing, you know, and you find, find different spots where punches work and how it-- it creates energy whenever you do the dynamics, the timing pushes, the timing pulls, and it just creates a weave of what you're trying to do.

-Yeah, and it's-- it's-- it's something that's it's kind of infectious because I'm listening to these notes that you're putting in there in this push.

And I'm feeling that myself and I'm like, "Okay, and I'm feeding off of you."

You're, you're tearing it up, and now I want to play it and get that back with you.

-[laughs] -So, it's something that you got to, I think that's one of the great things about just music in general, is if you can get... everybody can get on the same page.

You can get that same feeling.

-Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And that's, that's something I've been totally blessed with for the past, you know, 40 years is to play with musicians that think alike.

And, you know, it's just finding, finding the people that hear it the way you do.

And that's the ones you want to play music with.

And then, if you can get along with them, it's even a plus, you know?

-Yeah, yeah.

That's, that's, that's a blessing.

There's all kinds of them out there.

I know that one thing I'm really enjoying, and this, I just saw you for the first time with this one today.

But you got to tell me a little bit about this banjo.

-Oh, um, yeah.

This is a mid-- mid-1930s Gibson.

It was, uh-- uh, they, they were doing the best of the best in the 1930s.

And you know, the price ranges were... in the 100 dollars to 150-dollar range in that time, and that was a lot of money in the '30s, you know.

So, they came up with some ideas on how to build lower-cost banjos more for, you know, for working-class people.

And this one, in particular, is a-- it was a Tenor Banjo.

It was a TB-11, and I got a reproduction neck in it.

But, um... this banjo was sold probably in the 50-to-60-dollar range in the '30s.

And they also made a model of this that they-- they called a Kel Kroydon, which they sold through Montgomery Ward catalog, and you could do mail order on them from the catalog.

And-- and they are so, so great banjos.

I mean, they don't have the heavy metal in them that some of the higher price banjos have, but they had a way of making them sound good.

And actually, Earl Scruggs and the first recordings he did with Bill Monroe played one of these.

-Wow.

-You know, so it was this-- it was a working-class banjo.

They made the-- Art Deco was very popular during that time.

So, they made it flashy looking.

And they used a lot of pearloid, which we call Mother of Toilet Seat.

And... but they-- it's just a great banjo and so much fun to play because it's lightweight and-- and it-- it sounds great.

So, what else can you ask for?

-Well, that's one of those things.

It sounds great because you got somebody who knows what they're doing.

-Well, but the banjo does a lot of work itself.

-Yeah, absolutely.

It's just a fantastic sounding instrument.

I had-- had to bring it up because I've never seen you.

I haven't seen you in a while.

-Yeah.

-I haven't seen anybody in a while with-- -I understand.

Yeah.

-But what-- what an amazing sounding instrument.

One of the things that I've always loved about what you do, you know... you know, as you know, you guys, right now, you're at the point where you're producing yourselves, you know.

You're doing, you know, you go in and you're picking the songs.

You're making the arrangements.

So, one thing I've always admired is you can take like a, you know, a three-chord song, and just with different timings, or double stops, or just... -Right.

-You know, we're gonna put a rest in here.

-Mm-hm.

-And an odd beat rest.

Yeah.

You just make, you can take a three-chord or a two-chord song and make it just extremely interesting.

-Well, my thinking has always been, it's all about the lyrics.

And if you have a song that says something and tells the story, and that your audience can relate to, then you take it, you put the lyrics out there, and then you design the music around it to catch their attention when somebody's not singing.

So, if you, um, if you're doing an instrumental break, and you have some kind of push or pull or stop or whatever, and that that gets their attention when the singing's not going on.

But when the singing's happening, you want to be pretty straight-up rhythm, you know, because you want the vocal to be the foremost thing being heard at that point.

-Yeah.

That's, you know, and you guys, you, in particular, I say, you guys, because it's hard for me to think, "I-- I see Sammy, and I think Lonesome River Band."

But I know this is something that you're right at the heart of it.

And I know that I don't ever miss an album that you do, and I don't hear just amazing production quality and, and just really thoughtful songs, you know, Stray Dogs & Alley Cats .

And just the list goes on and on.

-It's all about the song.

-Yeah.

Homer Lawson's Field .

I can go on for hours and hours on that.

Um, there was one recording that you did do.

And I listened to the album when it first came out.

And just along the way, it's like, you forget that-- that track was in that album.

But I went back and re-listened to Angeline the Baker .

-Right.

Right.

-And I'd love to be honored to kind of try to rhythm you and play a little bit on that with you.

-Yeah.

And that-- that tune has so much historical significance to it because it was a... it's actually a Steven Foster song.

-Mm-hm.

-Uh... and I grew up in Patrick County, Virginia, which is the home of JEB Stuart.

And during the Civil War, according to the foremost historian I've ever known about music, a guy named Joe Wilson, he always told me that it was written that JEB Stuart, that was his favorite song.

And he had a banjo player in his regiment that played that song when they marched.

So, just the historical significance of it was one of the reasons I really wanted to cut it.

And also, the fact that that ties to JEB Stuart being from my hometown.

And so, we, we did our arrangement of it.

It's really fast on the record, but I don't like to play it that fast these days, but we'll do our little rendition of it right now.

-Yeah, please.

Yes.

Thank you.

["Angeline the Baker" instrumental music] -Yeah, man.

-Yeah, man.

That's how you do it.

That's how Angelina sounds.

That's JEB Stuart's Angelina.

-That's right.

That's right.

-Let's, you know, for some of the banjo aficionados back home, um, can you talk a little bit about the-- the tuning that you're doing on that for the folks who might not understand it?

-It's called Double C tuning which, uh, if you're playing an open-- in open without a capo, it would be a D, C, G, C. And normally the banjos tune G, B, G, D. And that's kind of the skirt tuning and what most songs are played out of.

But I-- I grew up around a lot of old-time players and when they would go to D, they would retune the banjo.

And-- and most of the time, they were playing an A and D most of the time.

They wouldn't use a capo, but they would tune the banjo up a full step to A, open A, and then use the C tune to-- to put it in D. And-- and also there's modal tuning where you, uh... [banjo chords play] you tune a four-string up back to normal D or whatever, and then take the first or second string up a half step.

And like Ralph Stanley's Clinch Mountain Backstep , you always play the C note on the second string.

You never play open B, so I always play it... [banjo chords playing] -Okay.

-And you, uh, you don't ever have-- you don't have to hold your finger on the C position the whole song, you know, so.

-It gives me that... Once again that drive.

-Well yeah, and it gives you a different feel.

And I use modal tuning a lot on a lot of songs we recorded.

We did a song called Mayhayley's House .

And I used modal turning on that.

Blackbirds and the Crows .

It's a different-- different way of looking at the banjo note when you change that one note.

And, and it gives you a whole different feeling and sound.

-Yeah.

Just opens up the world.

-Right.

-See, and that's the-- that's-- that's the really cool stuff that you... the one we're trying to accomplish on the show is get those things out.

-Yeah, I mean, everybody's got their own ideas and I-- I just try to take what little musical knowledge I have, and apply it to what I hear in my head.

The whole key of being a musician is to be able to play what you hear.

-Right.

-And if you don't hear a lot, you won't play a lot.

But, and I'm of that, you know, I don't hear the jazz.

I don't hear the-- a lot of the country chicken pickin' stuff.

I don't hear it in my head so I can't play it.

But I hear banjo, and you know that what you hear when you record is what I'm hearing in my head.

-Yeah, and exactly.

And that's, I think that's what, in the end, if you're trying to be an artist or you want to be a real artist, you're, basically you're interpreting what's in there.

-Right.

-You know, maybe-- maybe yours is six notes and somebody else's 12.

-Right, exactly.

-You know?

So, to me, that's the-- the art in it.

It's, and I think that you definitely are one of those people who has-- who has managed to turn it into art.

-I hope so.

Yeah.

-For sure.

Thank you, Sammy.

Thank you for joining us here, and... -Thank you.

-Hope to catch you out on the road later on this summer.

-We'll be there.

-And thank you for joining us at home on the musician's life, and we look very forward to you catching the next episode.

ANNOUNCER: Thank you for being a part of our show.

We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of The Life Of A Musician.

[instrumental music playing] ANNOUNCER: This program is brought to you in part by the City of Danville's Office of Economic Development and Tourism.

And by Santa Cruz Guitars and Santa Cruz Guitar Strings.

Additional support provided by the sponsors.

[music fades out]