♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Martin: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

I'M PHILLIP MARTIN, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, GBH CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING.

CALLIE CROSSLEY IS OFF.

TONIGHT, THE LIVES OF TRANSGENDER MEN AND WOMEN.

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF, AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

BLACK TRANSGENDER PEOPLE OF COLOR OFTEN FACE HIGHER LEVELS OF DISCRIMINATION FROM HEALTHCARE AND HOUSING TO EMPLOYMENT, VIOLENCE, AND EVEN DEATH.

THE LATEST INFORMATION SHOWS AN INCREASE IN DEATHS IN THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY, MANY WHO ARE TRANS WOMEN OF COLOR.

AND WHILE THE NEW ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN SOME ACTIONS ON DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES IN FAVOR OF THE LGBTQ+ COMMUNITY, IN CITIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS, TRANS PEOPLE OF COLOR CONTINUE TO FIGHT FOR EQUAL RIGHTS.

WHAT DO BLACK TRANS PEOPLE OF COLOR EXPERIENCE ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS?

WHAT PROTECTIONS AND RIGHTS AROUND EQUALITY ARE NEEDED?

AND WHAT ARE SOME SOLUTIONS TO IMPROVE THE LIVES AND RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY AND THE CISGENDER COMMUNITY?

JOINING US: CHASTITY BOWICK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE TRANSGENDER EMERGENCY FUND IN BOSTON; KADEN MOHAMED, CHAIR OF THE STEERING COMMITTEE FOR THE MASSACHUSETTS TRANSGENDER POLITICAL COALITION; DREYA CATOZZI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF URBAN TRANS WOMEN CENTER; AND IVAN ESPINOZA-MADRIGAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN BOSTON.

WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> Martin: WELL I THINK THE OPERATIVE QUESTION REALLY IS, HOW ARE YOU DOING IN THIS -- IN THIS ENVIRONMENT?

WE'VE SEEN, IN 2020, 37 KILLINGS OF TRANSGENDER WOMEN ACROSS THIS CUB, THE MAJORITY OF THEM BLACK.

AND CHASTITY, THIS IS TRAUMA OF AN EXTRAORDINARY NATURE.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

AND HOW IS THIS ISSUE BEING ADDRESSED ON A LOCAL LEVEL?

>> THE QUESTION OF HOW AM I DOING IS, AT THE MOMENT, SOMETIMES I DON'T KNOW.

I TAKE IT ON A DAY BY DAY BASIS SEEING AS THOUGH A LOT OF THE CLIENTS THAT WE SERVE, IN THE EMERGENCY FUND HAS EXPERIENCED OR ARE CURRENTLY EXPERIENCING SOME KINDS OF DISCRIMINATION, WHETHER THAT BE IN HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT, SHELTERS, INDUCE TREATMENT CENTERS.

WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE LOCALLY IS TO MAKE SURE THESE RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE.

WE'VE ASKED FOR A SEAT AT THE TABLE FOR SO MANY YEARS AND NOW WE'RE CREATING OUR OWN TABLE TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES THAT WE NEED FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

BUT IN RETROSPECT WE NEED OTHER PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, LIKE OUR CISGENDER CAN ALLIES, TO STAND UP FOR US WHEN IT COMES TO POLICY RIGHTS IN CITY OF BOSTON.

EVERYONE IS OKAY IN THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS, THEY CAN GET SURGERIES, THEY CAN GET OVERCOME HARASSMENT AND DISCRIMINATION AND FURTHER MORE A LOT OF THESE PROGRAMS IN THE CITY THAT ARE GETTING FUNDS TO SERVICE OUR COMMUNITY ONLY WANT US FOR HIV TESTS.

SO IT'S LIKE SO MANY OTHER THINGS WE HAVE TO BREAK DOWN BEFORE WE CAN EVEN GET TO THE ROOT OF THE PROGRAM.

AT THE TRANSJERT EMERGENCY FUND FIGHTING THE FIGHT EVERY DAY, WORKING WITH OUR LOCAL PLORKSES POLITICIANS, AND WE NEED OUR ALLIES TO DO SO.

>> Martin: DREYA TO THE SAME QUESTION I JUST ASKED CHASTITY, HOW ARE YOU DOING AND HOW ARE YOU RESPONDING TO THIS IF YOU WILL CRISIS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY INCLUDING THE VIOLENCE THAT WAS JUST OUTLINED?

IT'S JUST NOT DECEMBERS, OF COURSE IT'S ASSAULTS, INSULT IN THE STREET, SO ON, SO FORTH.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

>> PERSONALLY MYSELF, I TAKE IT DAY BY DAY.

I DON'T MOVE THROUGH THIS WORLD AS FEAR WITH FEAR.

I'LL AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

MY GOAL IS TO CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE AND MAKE -- MAKE SOCIETY AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

BUT PERSONALLY MYSELF I DON'T MOVE THROUGH THE WORLD WITH FEAR OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

BECAUSE I WOULDN'T BE ABILITY TO -- I DON'T FEEL I WOULD BE ABLE TO ADVOCATE PROPERLY IF I DID.

I DID -- I'M AWARE OF THE REALITIES OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

LIKE WE DO NEED OUR CISGENDER ALLIES TO HAVE OUR BACKS.

I'M NOT ONE TO WAIT FOR POLICIES TO BE PUT IN PLACE BEFORE I DECIDE TO LIVE MY LIFE.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE TO.

WITHIN THE TRANS COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY TRANS WOMEN OF COLOR.

IT'S HEARTBREAKING AND IT'S HARD SOMETIMES BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU ANGRY.

IT MAKES YOU SAD.

WHEN YOU SEE THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN THE WORLD AND THE BARRIERS THAT WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO OVERCOME BY JUST TRYING TO LIVE OUR LIVES.

AND IT'S -- IT'S A HARD ROAD.

BUT YOU KNOW, WITH PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF, CHASTITY AND OTHERS, WHO CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE AND FIGHT AND MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD, TO BE OUT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE AND THE LET THEM KNOW, THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, WE WILL NOT STAND FOR IT, WE ARE CREATING OUR OWN SPACE AND TO MAKE OUR WAY THROUGH THIS WORLD AND MOVE THROUGH THE WORLD.

I DON'T FEEL THAT WE NEED TO WAIT FOR OUR POLICY TO BE PUT IN PLACE WHERE OUR TRANS SISTERS OR OUR TRANS FAMILY TO LIVE THEIR LIVES.

WE NEED TO TAKE WHAT'S -- TEAR WHAT'S OURS, YOU KNOW?

WE DESERVE TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD, WE DESERVE TO MOVE IN THIS WORLD, WE DESERVE TO HAVE HEALTH CARE, HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT.

WE SCHNT TO CONSTANTLY EDUCATE PEOPLE ON WHAT IS IN MY MIND SHOULD BE JUST THE OBVIOUS, OF WHAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE.

WE NEED TO START MAKING CHOICES WITH OUR HEARTS AND OUR MINDS.

AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, PERSONALLY, MYSELF, I DON'T MOVE THROUGH THE WORLD WITH FEAR BUT I MOVE, AND I CONTINUE TO FIGHT AND MAKE MY VOICE HEARD AND THANKFUL FOR THE PLATFORMS THAT ARE PROVIDED TO CONTINUE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE AND LET THEM KNOW IT'S OUT THERE AND WE DO, WE NEED OUR CISGENDER ALLIES TO HAVE OUR BACK, BUT WE CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT.

>> Martin: THAT'S POWERFUL NOT MOVING THROUGH WORLD WITH FEAR.

KADEN IT'S BEING FELT PRIMARILY BY BLACK TRANSGENDER WOMEN BUT PUSHING BACK AGAINST THAT FEAR.

IN TERMS OF TRANSGENDER MEN, AND IN TERMS OF THE RESPONSE OF CITY GOVERNMENT, TOO THE THE TYPE OF VIOLENCE AND ASSAULTS WE'VE SEEN BUT ALSO, THE RESOURCES THAT ARE NEEDED, WHAT IS -- WHAT'S YOUR ROLE BEEN PRIMARILY?

AND HOW HAVE YOU -- PEOPLE RESPONDED TO YOUR, FIRST OF ALL, MOVING TO BOSTON IN 2010, THE STORY ABOUT YOUR COMING TO WELLESLEY IS VERY WELL-KNOWN.

THERE WAS A LOT OF RESISTANCE OF YOU COMING TO WELLESLEY.

IN TERMS OF FINDING RESOURCES TO TRANSGENDER PEOPLE ACROSS THE BOARD?

>> AND YOU KNOW I THINK THERE'S A LOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

I THINK ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS, YOU KNOW, I OPERATE MYSELF PERSONALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF BOSTON.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT IF YOU'RE IN A CITY YOU OFTEN HAVE ACCESS TO A LOT OF RESOURCES THAT YOU MIGHT NOT IF YOU WERE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BOSTON ITSELF, I THINK YOU KNOW THE CITY HAS DONE SOME THINGS AROUND POLICY YOU KNOW, MASSACHUSETTS I THINK AS A WHOLE IS LIKE FAIRLY OKAY WHEN IT COMES TO POLICY.

BUT I THINK AS DREYA AND CHASTITY BOTH KIND OF SPOKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, IT IS SORT OF BEYOND WHAT THE CITY IS DOING, RIGHT?

IT'S BEYOND HAVING POLICIES OR PRACTICES THAT ARE IN PLACE.

AND THE MASSACHUSETTS TRANSGENDER POLITICAL COALITION RIGHT NOW IS REALLY TRYING TO FOCUS ON THIS IDEA OF NOT LEGAL EQUITY BUT OF LIVED EQUITY.

RIGHT?

SO HOW DO WE GO TO A DOCTOR AND NOT GET DISCRIMINATED AGAINST?

HOW DO WE ACCESS EDUCATION, EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING, ET CETERA, WITHOUT HAVING TO BUMP UP AGAINST THESE BARRIERS THAT ARE IN PLACE?

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LEGAL TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE, TRANSGENDER PEOPLE, IN EMPLOYMENT IN MASSACHUSETTS, THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, RIGHT?

SO I THINK WE NEED TO GET AWAY FROM THIS IDEA THAT POLICIES OR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS OR PEOPLE IN THOSE ROLES AND SETTINGS ARE GOING TO HELP US OR SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS AND RECOGNIZE THAT WE REALLY DO, AS DREYA AND CHASTITY SAID, NEED OUR SIS ALLIES TO REALLY STEP UP.

NOT JUST IN THOSE SYSTEMS BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT TOO.

WE NEED A LOT OF EDUCATION.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE EDUCATION FOR ALL DOCTORS, ALL TEACHERS, ALL PEOPLE IN ALL OF THESE SETTINGS SO THAT WE'RE NOT HAVING THESE PROBLEMS OCCUR WHETHER THE POLICIES ARE THERE OR NOT.

BECAUSE POLICIES DON'T CHANGE BEHAVIOR.

POLICIES DON'T CHANGE MINDS AND OPINIONS.

THEY HELP.

THEY CAN PROVIDE SORT OF A PATHWAY TO YOU KNOW POTENTIALLY GETTING SUPPORT IF YOU NEED IT.

BUT EVEN THEN IT'S HIT OR MISS A LOT OF TIMES.

SO THAT'S NOT ENOUGH FOR ME.

FOR ME IT'S PUSHING WAY BEYOND THAT AND REALLY WORKING FOR THIS LIVED EQUITY IDEA WHERE TRANSGENDER PEOPLE REGARDLESS WHETHER THEY ARE TRANSWOMEN, TRANSMEN, NONBINARY, ANY OF THE SETTINGS THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY EXPERIENCING THEM IN.

>> Martin: IN THE SENSE OF POLICY, TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE.

BUT RIGHT NOW IF THERE IS ONE THING THAT'S ABSOLUTELY NEEDED IS, BASICALLY TO HAVE THE LAW ON YOUR SIDE.

BECAUSE AROUND THE COUNTRY WE'RE SEEING EFFORTS, WAKING UP TODAY TO A HEADLINE THAT ARKANSAS FOR EXAMPLE HAS PASSED A BILL THAT BASICALLY CRIMINALS TRANSSEXUALS IN SPORTS.

YOU HAVE SITUATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE LEGISLATORS ARE BASICALLY MILITATING AGAINST TRANSSEXUAL PEOPLE.

AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR YOU IVAN IS IN THE LEGAL FIELD, MASSACHUSETTS STANDS SHOULDERS ABOVE OTHERS BUT EVEN HERE YOU FIND PROBLEMATIC ISSUES OF -- IN TERMS OF LEGAL BARRIERS FOR TRANS PEOPLE.

CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT AND WHAT THE LAWYERS' COMMITTEE IS DOING BASICALLY TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT?

>> YES, THANK YOU PHIL FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE WITH SUCH A DISTINGUISHED PANEL.

AND FROM THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, I REALLY WANT TO GO BACK ACTUALLY TO SOMETHING THAT KADEN SAID.

WHICH IS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN LEGAL EQUALITY AND LIVED EQUALITY, OR AS HE PUT IT, EQUITY.

WE HAVE LAWS ON THE BOOKS THAT PROTECT PEOPLE AGAINST DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF GENDER, GENDER EXPRESSION, GENDER IDENTITY AND BASIS OF THEIR RACE, RIGHT?

THAT DOESN'T MEAN NECESSARILY THAT PEOPLE AREN'T EXPERIENCING DISCRIMINATION.

EXACTLY ALONG THOSE LINES.

WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORKPLACE.

WHEN IT COMES TO HOUSING.

AND WHEN IT COMES T OTHER INSTITUTIONS.

SUCH AS HEALTH CARE OR EDUCATION.

SO WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS, OF COURSE, THAT THE LAW DOES NOT ALWAYS MAKE ALL OF THESE INCIDENTS JUST GO AWAY.

WE CAN HAVE STRONG PROTECTIONS, BUT THAT STILL NEEDS SIGNIFICANT MONITORING AND ENFORCEMENT.

AND WITHOUT THE ENFORCEMENT COMPONENT WE ARE SIMPLY NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT FOLKS, AS THEY'RE EXPERIENCING DISCRIMINATION.

OR WORSE, VIOLENCE.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST SAW FOR EXAMPLE IN ATLANTA, MURDERS THAT WERE NOT IDENTIFIED AS HATE CRIMES.

THIS IS A LIVED REALITY FOR MANY PEOPLE IN THE TRANS COMMUNITY WHOSE VIOLENCE AND ASSAULTS ARE NOT CONSIDERED HATE INCIDENTS.

BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT JUST SIMPLY DOESN'T CATEGORIZE THEM THAT RAILWAY.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY SHOULDN'T BE CATEGORIZED.

THEY ABSOLUTELY MUST BE AND SHOULD BE.

BECAUSE THESE INCIDENTS ARE INCIDENTS OF DISCRIMINATION, VIOLENCE, AND HATE CRIMES THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY BASED ON BIAS, BECAUSE OF THE PERSON'S IDENTITY.

AND SO WE NEED TO DO A LOT MORE WORK, JUST TO GET OUR INSTITUTIONS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE THINGS NEED TO HAVE TEETH AND THAT YOU NEED TO CALL IT OUT.

>> Martin: THE INSTITUTIONS, YES.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S ALSO BEEN POINTED OUT HERE ON THIS PANEL THAT YOU ALSO HAVE TO GO BEYOND THE INSTITUTIONS TO A SOCIETY-WIDE, IF YOU WILL, OF INCULCATION.

AND IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT NATIONALLY HAS LARGELY INFUL PLACES HAS BEEN LED BY BLACK TRANSGENDER WOMEN.

AND IT'S, AND THAT SEEMS TO BE A POINT OF SOLIDARITY.

CHASTITY, HAS THAT, THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT, SERVED TO BRIDGE THE GAP AGAIN THE, IF YOU WILL, THE CISGENDER COMMUNITY AND THE TRANS COMMUNITY AS YOU SO TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, AND SOMETHING THAT YOU GREATLY HOPED FOR?

>> YES, JUST BEFORE I ANSWER THAT QUESTION, I JUST WANT TO MENTION, YOU MENTIONED THE TRANSGENDER, WE ARE OFTEN LOOKED AT AS SEXUAL OBJECTS AND THAT WORD HEIGHTENS THAT BELIEF, SO YOU USE TRANSGENDER NOT TRANSSEXUAL.

>> Martin: YOU'RE SLOOURT CORRECT, I AMONG OTHERS BASICALLY REQUIRE THAT TYPE OF ADMONITION, IN ORDER FOR US TO MOVE FORWARD.

I THINK THAT THOSE LESSONS HAVE TO BE INCULCATED BY SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT.

I'M AMONG THOSE WHO AGAIN HAS TO BE EDUCATED AN YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB OF ADDRESS BEING THAT ISSUE.

TO THE QUESTION OF BLACK LIVES MATTER, HOW HAS THAT HELPED YOU IF YOU WILL CREATE A BRIDGE TO THE CISGENDER COMMUNITY?

>> WELL, FIRST I FELT A LARGE DISCONNECT WITH THE MOVEMENT.

RIGHT AFTER THE UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT WITH GEORGE FLOYD LAST YEAR, A GROUP OF BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTERS ATTACKED A TRANS WOMAN OF COLOR.

I FOUND MYSELF IN KIND OF STUCK LIKE I AM BLACK.

THAT IS PART OF MY IDENTITY BUT I AM ALSO TRANCE.

THAT IS ALWAYS GOING TO STAND OUT FIRST AND FOREMOST THAT I STAND OUT.

HOW DOES THAT STAND OUT, BLACK LIVES MATTER NOT JUST BLACK LIVES, THE BLACK MEN FOUNDATION HERE IN BOSTON TO TRY TO BRIDGE THAT GAP BETWEEN OUR TWO COMMUNITIES BECAUSE WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.

SO WE EVEN STARTED A SESSION WHERE WE HAD TRANSGENDER WOMEN OF COLOR AND STRAIGHT BLACK MEN IN A ROOM TOGETHER AND STARTED BREAKING DOWN SOME OF THE STIGMAS AND STEREOTYPES THAT ARE PLACED ON THESE TWO COMMUNITIES BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR.

WE NEED TO HAVE THEM SEE US AS PEOPLE, NOT SEX OBJECTS, NOT SEX WORKERS OR PEOPLE WHO ARE INFECTED WITH HIV.

BUT BLACK PEOPLE FIRST.

THAT IS SOMETHING WE NEED ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AS WE ALL SEE.

>> Martin: STEREOTYPES OF THE TERMS WE USE, THE VERNACULAR, ALL OF THIS YOU'RE RIGHT, HELPS TO MARGINALIZE TRANS COMMUNITIES.

DREYA, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT EFFORTS TO BASICALLY PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT MARGINALIZATION, IN THE EDUCATION THAT YOU PROVIDE?

AND BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO TRANSITION TO A DISCUSSION ABOUT RESOURCES.

AND BUT BRIEFLY IF YOU COULD TALK ABOUT THE EDUCATION THAT YOU PROVIDE.

YOU SPEAK TO PANELS AND TO CISGENDER, NONEDUCATED PEOPLE ABOUT TRANS ISSUES ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

ADDRESS HOW WOULD YOU -- WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEONE WHO BASICALLY NEEDS TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B IN TERMS OF THEIR UNDERSTANDING?

>> YOU KNOW WHEN I DO SPEAK WITH THOSE COMMUNITIES, I BASICALLY, I TRY TO KEEP IT SIMPLE.

BECAUSE IT IS SIMPLE.

I SPEAK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, COMES TO A POINT WHERE WE CAN CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT THE VIOLENCE AGAINST US, AGAINST TRANS WOMEN, TRANS PEOPLE IN GENERAL.

BUT BASICALLY I SPEAK AND LET THEM KNOW YOU KNOW, I'LL EDUCATE YOU, BUT I'LL KEEP IT SIMPLE BECAUSE IT IS SIMPLE.

AND THE WAY I APPROACH IT IS I USE MY STORY, I START WITH MY STORY, YOU KNOW, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT I FIND IS WHEN I SPEAK AND I'M JUST VERY STRAIGHT TO THE POINT, LIKE I SAID I DON'T SPEAK ABOUT POLICIES.

I JUST SPEAK ABOUT -- I TELL THEM THIS IS WHO WE ARE.

WE LIVE OUR LIVERS, WE HAVE NORMAL LIVES THAT WE LIVE EVERY DAY.

I'VE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST JUST BECAUSE OF MY COLOR, COLOR OF MY SKIN NOT JUST BECAUSE I'M TRANS.

AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED THAT WITHIN, I SENSE YOU KNOW DISCRIMINATION WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY UNFORTUNATELY AND LIKE CHASTITY SAID, I DON'T FEEL THE -- THERE DOES NEED TO BE A GAP, BRIDGE BETWEEN BLACK LIVES MATTER AND THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

BECAUSE WE ARE CONSTANTLY JUDGED, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THIS STIGMA AND THERE IS THE STIGMA THAT WE ARE JUST SEX WORKERS AND WE'RE ALL HIV POSITIVE BUT NO.

WE ARE PRETTY SMART AND WE'RE PRETTY EDUCATED AND WE GO TO COLLEGE AND WE ARE -- YOU KNOW WE LIVE REGULAR LIVES.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE RELATIONSHIPS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO START FOCUSING ON AND SHOWING PEOPLE THAT WE LIVE REGULAR LIVES.

YOU KNOW WE FOCUS A LOT ON THE VIOLENCE AND A LOT OF THE NEGATIVE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING TO US BUT WE NEED TO START SHOWING THE POSITIVE LIVES.

CHASTITY AND I WE LIVE POSITIVE LIVES, WE FOLLOW PEOPLE WITH RELATIONSHIPS AND EVERYTHING.

THE POINT IS WE LIVE OUR LIVES.

THE WORD TRANSGENDER SEEMS TO MAKE EVERYONE'S MIND GO HAYWIRE.

AS SOON AS THEY HEAR THAT, I FEEL LIKE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO KNOW BUT FIRST TIME WE SAY TRANSGENDER, IT'S OH, THINGS CHANGE AND IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT WAY.

IT'S JUST THAT WORLD, THAT TILED, TRANSGENDER.

AND HAVING TO CONSTANTLY EDUCATE.

THANK YOU CHASTITY FOR THE CORRECTION ON TRANSSEXUAL BECAUSE YEAH, WE CONSTANTLY HAVE TO DO -- CONSTANTLY HAVE TO EDUCATE LIKE THAT.

IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT WAY.

WE ARE BLACK WOMEN, BLACK TRANS WOMEN, AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'RE BLACK WOMEN.

MRTD DREYA AS YOU POINTED OUT WE KNOW VIOLENCE AGAINST TRANSGENDER WOMEN HAVE BEEN A GROWING CRISIS BUT HOPELESSNESS HAS BEEN A MAJOR PROBLEM.

LAST MONTH VICE NEWS HELPED SHET LIGHT ON THE TERM OF VIOLENCE AND NEGLECT.

TAKE A LOOK.

>> I'VE ALWAYS FELT THE FULL IMPACT OF THE PAIN, THE HURT AND THE SUFFERING BECAUSE I NEVER RESORTED TO DRUGS.

SO, WHEN I GOT ASSAULTED, I FELT THE ASSAULT.

WHEN I GOT BEAT, I FELT THE BEATING.

WHEN I WAS LEFT OUT THERE IN THE COLD, SLEEPING ON PARK BENCHES, SLEEPING IN TENTS, SLEEPING ON THE FLOOR, SLEEPING ON GRATES DOWNTOWN, SLEEPING IN DUMPSTERS.

I WISH I KNEW YOU BACK THEN, ALL THEM WARM BEDS UPSTAIRS.

FROM DAY ONE, THIS WOMAN HAS ACCEPTED ME, NO JUDGMENT, NO RIDICULE.

AND THAT'S WHY FAMILY IS SO IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU'RE CHOOSING SOMEONE WHO IS VALIDATING YOU.

>> Martin: REQUEST YES, YOU'VE SEEN -- YES, YOU'VE SEEN THIS, VIOLENCE, HOMELESSNESS, SUCH PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES THAT ARE BEING ADDRESSED AS A RESULT OF THIS TRAUMA.

BUT THERE'S ALSO EFFORTS AS OUR GUESTS HAVE POINTED OUT TO TRY TO TURN THIS AROUND.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ALL OF YOU ABOUT IF YOU WILL, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT EDUCATION BUT KADEN WHAT EFFORTS, CONCRETE EFFORTS ARE BASICALLY BEING ADDRESSED TO CHANGE THE PARADIGM, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF POLICY AS YOU POINTED OUT EARLIER BUT IN TERMS OF WHOLESALE, WE'RE NOT ASKING SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS, THESE QUESTIONS ARE NECESSARY NOW BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FRANKLY IGNORANT OF, AND HAVE TO BASICALLY BE REEDUCATED OR CONDITIONED TO BASICALLY SEEING PEOPLE AS AN INTEGRAL PART OF SOCIETY.

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK -- I KNOW YOU SAID WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT EDUCATION.

BUT I'M A HUGE PROPONENT THAT THAT IS REALLY A BIG PART OF IT.

I WANTED TO SORT OF ECHO WHAT CHASTITY SAID AND WHAT DREYA SAID.

WHAT DREYA SAID, IT IS HELPING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS RIGHT?

WE ARE HERE TRYING TO LIVE OUR LIVES THE WAY EVERYBODY ELSE IS AND I THINK THAT REQUIRES EDUCATION.

BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE EITHER THINK THEY'VE NEVER MET A TRANS PERSON, THINK THEY DON'T KNOW ANYBODY THAT'S TRANS.

THEY PROBABLY DO, THEY HAVE SAT NEXT TO A PERSON THAT'S TRANS TRAN, WALKED NEXT TO THEM IN A GROCERY STORE, THEY JUST DON'T KNOW.

WE ARE HERE, ALWAYS BEEN HERE, PART OF YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT OR NOT.

I THINK IT HELPS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, BREAK DOWN THE BARRIERS THEY'RE EXPERIENCING TO BE ABLE TO ACCEPT TRANS FOLKS.

WHEN I DO EDUCATION I SPEND A LOT OF TIME ALSO SPEAKING VERY CLEARLY TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION THAT WE'VE COME SO FAR AND DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO GO.

I THINK ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEWHERE LIKE BOSTON OR MASSACHUSETTS WHERE WE SORT OF LIVE IN A BUBBLE OF PROGRESSIVENESS OR LIBERALISM OR WHATEVER WORD YOU WANT TO CALL IT AND THERE'S A REALLY BIG MISCONCEPTION WHERE SOMEWHERE LIKE MASSACHUSETTS WHERE WE DO HAVE LAWS AND POLICIES IN PLACE AND COMPLETELY PROTECTIONS, WHERE EVERYTHING IS FINE AND WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING MORE TO DO.

I THINK THAT IS A MASSIVE FALLACY, THAT IS A DANGEROUS THOUGHT THAT IS NOT TRUE ACKNOWLEDGE WHERE WE HAVE DISCUSSED AT LENGTH, FOR ME THE EDUCATION PIECE IS NECESSARY TO BREAK DOWN THE STEREOTYPES, BREAKING DOWN THE BARRIERS THAT TRANS FOLKS ARE EXPERIENCING.

THE THING I WANTED TO NAME THAT CHASTITY SAID, YOU KNOW, OFTENTIMES UNFORTUNATELY IT IS TRANS PEOPLE HAVING TO DO THAT THEMSELVES.

WHEN CHASTITY WAS SAYING, HOW SHE'S DOING WE'VE CREATED A TABLE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE OURSELVES.

SO I THINK UNFORTUNATELY A LOT OF THE TIME THIS IS BEING DONE BY TRANS PEOPLE SAYING AS DREYA SAID, I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND LET YOU TELL ME I CAN'T LIVE MY LIFE.

I'M GOING TO LIVE MY LIFE AND BY DOING THOSE THINGS, WE ARE SORT OF BEING PUT IN A POSITION OF HAVING TO DO A LOT OF THAT EDUCATION BREAKING DOWN THE BARRIERS MYSELF, AND WE BRING CISGENDER PEOPLE ALONG WITH US.

I'D LIKE TO SEE CIS PEOPLE TAKING THE LEAD ON THEIR OWN, BUT I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY WE'VE GOTTEN THERE YET.

I THINK THE EDUCATION PIECE IS NUMBER ONE PRIORITY -- >> Martin: I'M AFRAID WE'RE SADLY ABOUT OUT OF TIME.

IVAN IS THERE A LEGAL EFFORT RIGHT NOW TO BASICALLY ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE THEIR LIVES, ARE WE -- TO BASICALLY COUNTER THE DISCRIMINATION THAT SO MANY TRANS PEOPLE ARE FACING, EVEN HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS?

>> WELL, SEEN REALLY GREAT WORK COMING FROM THE BIEXTION BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ALREADY.

IN JANUARY FOR EXAMPLE, A REVERSAL OF THE TRANS BAN IN MILITARY THAT TRUMP HAD PUT INTO PLACE AND ALSO THINGS PUT INTO PLACE LIKE FORBIDDING THE USE OF THE TERM TRANSGENDER FOR FEDERAL RESEARCH AND THE WORK THAT THE NIH AND CDC ARE NOW DOING.

THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE REVERSED.

THAT HAS A TRICKLE DOWN EFFECT, TRICKLES DOWN TO THE EMPLOYERS, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY INTERFACING WITH TRANS FOLKS DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

AND IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT -- >> Martin: EVEN HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS THAT'S OKAY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Martin: WELL LOOK I'M AFRAID THAT IS THE END OF OUR BROADCAST, ALL OF YOU HAVE BEEN FANTASTIC.

THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANKS OALL OF OUR GUESTS AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US OF COURSE.

BEFORE WE GO WE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE BOSTON'S ARE ACTING MAYOR KIM JANEY.

FORMER MARTIN WALSH BECAME THE LABOR U.S. LABOR SECRETARY.

STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

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