FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Williams: FOREST FIRE IS ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT IS INCREASING NOT IN SMALL INCREMENTAL BITS BUT EXPONENTIALLY.

(HELICOPTER PROPELLERS CHOPPING) WE ARE REALLY KIND OF APPROACHING A TRAIN WRECK AND A SERIOUS ISSUE WHERE FIREFIGHTERS ARE TIRED, THEY KIND OF ARE CHALLENGED MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY.

OVER THE LAST NEARLY FOUR DECADES WE HAVE SEEN THE ANNUAL AREA BURN INCREASE BY OVER 300%.

IT IS REALLY STARTING TO ENTER A CRISIS MODE.

>> Gene: WILDFIRE SEASON BURNING EARLY IN NEW MEXICO.

THIS WEEK WE ADDRESS THE STARTLING REALITIES FACING FOREST AGENCIES AND WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS WHILE TRYING TO FOCUS ON POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS TO THE GROWING PROBLEM THREATENING COMMUNITIES AROUND OUR STATE.

THE LONGEST SEASON AS OUR LAND WILDFIRE SPECIAL STARTS NOW.

Thanks for joining us.

I'm Senior Producer Lou DiVizio.

Gene will be back in just a minute.

But first, a short reflection on 2022's historic wildfire season here in New Mexico.

The two largest wildfires in state history are nearly contained.

The Hermit's Peak Calf Canyon fire in the Santa Fe National Forest and the Black Fire in the Gila.

Monsoon rains have allowed significant progress containing both of them and not before they scorched 666,000 acres.

We recorded this special in April, knowing we could be in for a devastating year, but we never could have predicted this level of destruction.

These fires have burned homes and have taken the lives and livelihoods.

President Joe Biden visited New Mexico last month to underscore the gravity of the crisis.

He announced the federal government would cover 100% of the cost from the Hermit's Peak Calf Canyon Fire and offered new ways for people to apply for assistance.

Shortly after, Biden signed off on a major raise for wildland firefighters as much as $20,000 a year in some cases.

The hope is that extra support will help recruit and retain the people risking their lives on the front lines of these disasters.

In about 15 minutes, three firefighters sit down to talk about the serious stressors, keeping people from filling those critical positions.

Now, there is some cause for optimism when it comes to adjusting to these fires.

At the bottom of the hour.

We'll speak with a New Mexico community that's created and maintained its own forest management strategy.

But for the rest of the state, how else can we keep these fires from growing out of control?

We know the Hermits Peak and Calf Canyon fires each started a prescribed burn action from the U.S. Forest Service in about 40 minutes.

We'll ask a forestry expert what other protective techniques we should be using.

But we also need to start with how we got here.

This fire season blew up fast, really fast.

And his bio climatologist, Park Williams, tells Our Land Executive Producer Laura Paskus the reality is in a warmer world, fire season is longer and scarier.

>> Laura: PARKER WILLIAMS, WELCOME AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Williams: YOU BET.

>> Laura: YOU ARE A BIOCLIMATOLOGIST.

WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN?

>> Williams: SOMEBODY WHO CAN'T DECIDE WHETHER THEY LIKE TO STUDY THE LIFE MORE OR THE CLIMATE MORE.

CLIMATE AFFECTS LIFE AND LIFE AFFECTS CLIMATE.

VEGETATION LIFE IS SOMETHING I AM REALLY INTERESTED IN AND THAT ESPECIALLY HAS A BIG AFFECT ON CLIMATE AND SO I STUDY BOTH AND CALL MYSELF A BIOCLIMATOLOGIST.

>> Laura: IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES, HOW HAS FIRE CHANGED AND KIND OF WHAT TIME PERIOD ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> Williams: OVER THE LAST CENTURY THE FIRE ACTIVITY IN THE WEST HAS INCREASED BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT INCREASE HAS OCCURRED SINCE THE LATE 70'S OR EARLY 1980'S.

OUR REALLY GOOD RECORDS OF FIRES START IN 1984 AND THAT IS WHEN WE START HAVING REALLY GOOD HIGH RESOLUTION SATELLITE IMAGERY THAT SHOWS US A MAP OF WHERE EXACTLY EACH FIRE OCCURRED.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS ACROSS THE WESTERN UNITED STATES WHEN WE HAVE REALLY GOOD DATA GOING BACK TO 1984, THAT OVER THE LAST FOUR DECADES, WE HAVE SEEN THE ANNUAL AREA BURNED INCREASE BY OVER 300%.

OVER 300% MEANS THREE TO FOUR TIMES AS MUCH FIRE BURNING, AS MUCH LAND AREA BURNING TODAY AS WOULD BE EXPECTED IN AN AVERAGE YEAR IN THE 1970'S OR 1980'S.

BUT IF YOU LOOK DEEPER AND SEE WHERE THESE INCREASES ARE REALLY OCCURRING, THEN WE SEE THEY ARE MOSTLY OCCURRING IN FORESTED AREAS.

FOREST FIRE AREA HAS INCREASED BY OVER 1300% SINCE THE MID 1980'S WHEREAS OUTSIDE OF THE FORESTED AREA, INCREASE IN BURNED AREA HAS BEEN ABOUT 165%.

AN INCREASE IN 165% IS STILL A BIG DEAL.

IT MEANS MORE THAN DOUBLING OF AREA BURNED IN NON-FORESTED AREA.

IF THE FOREST FIRES TREND WASN'T SO HUGE, THAT IS WHAT WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IS THE DOUBLING OR TRIPLING OF BURNED AREA IN NON-FORESTED AREAS.

BUT FOREST FIRE HAS REALLY STOLEN THE SHOW.

AND SO THE QUESTION IS WHY IS THIS OCCURRING?

WHY ARE FOREST FIRES GETTING SO MUCH BIGGER?

INTERESTING THING IS THAT THEY ARE NOT GETTING THAT MUCH MORE FREQUENT.

THERE IS ACTUALLY NOT MANY MORE FOREST FIRES TODAY THAN THERE WERE IN THE 1980'S.

THE THING IS THAT THE FOREST FIRES OCCURRING TODAY ARE WAY BIGGER THAN THE FOREST FIRES IN THE 1980'S.

THAT TREND WAS ALREADY GETTING CONCERNING 10 YEARS AGO.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS ARE REALLY BLOWING PEOPLES' MINDS.

2020, THE AREA BURNED IN 2020 ALMOST TRIPLED THE PREVIOUS RECORD IN CALIFORNIA.

THE PREVIOUS RECORD WAS SET IN 2017 OR 2018 AND THAT SEEMED EXTREME AT THE TIME.

THEN 2021 ALMOST REACHED THE 2020 LEVEL.

FOREST FIRE IS ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT IS INCREASING NOT IN SMALL INCREMENTAL BITS BUT EXPONENTIALLY AND WHEN WE COMPARE THE ANNUAL AREA BURNED IN THE FOREST TO CLIMATE, IT IS REALLY CLEAR THE MAIN DRIVER IS A DRYING CLIMATE.

AS THE ATMOSPHERE HAS GOTTEN DRYER AND WARMER OVER THE LAST FOUR DECADES, FIRE GROWTH HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED IN A VERY PREDICTABLE WAY.

EVEN THOUGH 2020 WAS SUCH AN EXTREME OUTLIER TO JUST LOOK AT HOW MUCH BURNED EVERY YEAR, THAT OUTLIER WAS ACTUALLY TOTALLY PREDICTABLE BASED ON HOW WARM AND DRY IT WAS IN 2020.

AND 2021 IS THE SAME STORY.

>> Laura: IT FEELS TO ME LIKE WE ARE ON A TRAJECTORY AND THERE MIGHT BE GOOD YEARS AND BAD YEARS BUT I AM WONDERING IF YOU CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT FOR THE FUTURE.

>> Williams: FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF DROUGHT AND FIRE I THINK THAT HOPE IS INCREASINGLY A BAD THING TO LEAN ON.

HOPE IS A GREAT THING TO USE WHEN GAMBLING WHEN THE ODDS ARE 50/50 BUT IF YOU ESTABLISH A SYSTEM OF HOPE IN A WORLD WHERE THE DICE ARE GETTING INCREASINGLY LOADED, THEN HOPE BECOMES LESS AND LESS REALISTIC.

BUT IT IS STILL CLEAR THAT WE ARE RELYING FAR TOO MUCH ON HOPE.

THE FOREST SERVICE THIS YEAR GAVE US A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THIS, WHERE FOREST FIRES WERE SO EXTENSIVE THIS SUMMER ACROSS NORTHERN CALIFORNIA AND OREGON AND WASHINGTON AND SOME OF THE NORTHERN ROCKY AREAS THAT THE CHIEF OF THE FOREST SERVICE DECLARED THAT FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR, FOREST SERVICE WOULD NOT BE DOING ANYMORE CONTROLLED BURNS OR MANAGEMENT OF WILDFIRE IN WAYS THAT ALLOW WILDFIRES TO BURN ECOLOGICALLY FAVORABLE WAYS.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE FOREST SERVICE DECIDED THEY WERE SO SPREAD THIN ON FIGHTING FIRES, THEY NEEDED TO JUST FOCUS ON FIGHTING FIRES AND NOT USE ANY RESOURCES TOWARD USING FIRE TO BURN FORESTED LANDSCAPES IN ORDER TO EAT AWAY AT THIS FIRE DEFICIT WE HAVE BEEN BUILDING FOR THE LAST CENTURY BY FIGHTING FIRES.

MANY OF THE FORESTS IN THE WESTERN UNITED STATES ARE ARTIFICIALLY DENSE BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY FIGHTING FIRES FOR A CENTURY.

MEANING THE AREAS THAT COULD HAVE BURNED IN THE 1950'S AND 60'S DIDN'T, AND TODAY THERE IS MORE FUEL ON THE LANDSCAPE THAN THERE WOULD BE OTHERWISE.

SO WHEN A LITTLE FIRE COMES TODAY IN A WARMER WORLD THAT FIRE IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BURN VERY INTENSELY.

>> Logan: I THOUGHT THERE HAS TO BE A WAY WHERE I CAN MAKE IT POSSIBLE, OR WE CAN MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR ME AND MY NEIGHBORS TO BE ABLE TO CUT THAT WOOD WHICH IS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE TO US AS FIREWOOD AND IN OUR OWN BACKYARD AND AT THE SAME TIME MAKE OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR WATERSHED SAFER.

>> Gene: MANY NEW MEXICANS WILL REMEMBER THE 2011 LOS CONCHAS FIRE IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS WHERE THE KIND OF FIRE THAT REALLY SHOWED US HOW EXTREME WILDFIRES IN THE WARMER WORLD WILL BE.

THE IMPACTS ARE STILL REVERBERATING RATING TODAY IN THE MOUNTAINS, THE WATERSHED AND FOR DOWNSTREAM COMMUNITIES.

>> Laura: IN JUNE 2011 A MASSIVE WILDFIRE IGNITED AND ERUPTED IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS.

(FIRE CRACKLING) THE LOS CONCHAS FIRE BURNED 156,000 ACRES.

INCLUDING ABOUT HALF OF THE PUEBLO OF SANTA CLARA'S WATERSHED.

DANIEL DENIPAH, FORESTRY DIRECTOR AT THE PUEBLO REMEMBERS THAT SUMMER.

JUST BEFORE LOS CONCHAS HE WAS HERE IN SANTA CLARA CANYON.

WE WERE UP HERE CONSULTING WITH GOVERNOR DASHENO AT THE TIME AND WE WERE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE FOREST CONDITIONS BECAUSE IT WAS SO DRY OUT HERE.

AND WE HAD ALMOST 100% WHAT WE CALL PROBABILITY OF IGNITION.

>> Laura: THE FOREST WAS PARCHED HOT AND WHEN A POWER LINE THROUGH THE SANTA FE NATIONAL FOREST BLEW OVER, THE FIRE BLAZED INTO ACTION LIKE NO ONE HAD SEEN BEFORE.

LOS CONCHAS BURNED INCREDIBLY HOT AND FAST.

IN ITS FIRST 14 HOURS IT SCORCHED MORE THAN 43,000 ACRES.

THAT IS ONE ACRE PER MINUTE.

>> Denipah: WE CAN SEE THOSE IMPACTS ON THE FIRE AND THE SEVERITY.

THEY WERE REALLY HIGH SEVERITY BURNS AND WE ARE SEEING LIMITED GROWTH.

>> Laura: 16,000 ACRES OF SANTA CLARA BURNED.

SOILS WERE SUPER HEATED.

THEY BECAME HARD LIKE CONCRETE.

ALL OF THE FISH DIED IN SANTA CLARA CREEK, A TRIBUTARY OF THE RIO GRANDE.

AND AFTER THE FIRE, CAME DANGEROUS FLOODS THAT RIPPED APART THE FLOODPLAIN.

(RUSHING WATER) TODAY, ASPENS AND OAK ARE COMING UP WHERE CONIFERS ONCE GREW AND THE PUEBLO PLANTED ABOUT 800,000 SEEDLINGS LIKE PONDEROSA PINE AND DOUGLAS FIRS.

IN SOME SPOTS, THOUGH, THOSE SPECIES THAT GREW HERE IN THE PAST JUST CAN'T SURVIVE IN THIS WARMING WORLD.

DENIPAH SAYS IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP CONNECTIONS WITH THOSE FORESTS OF THE PAST.

>> Denipah: IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE PRESERVE AS MUCH AS WE CAN BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE TREES ARE SACRED TO THE PEOPLE.

THEY HAVE BEEN A PART OF THEIR LIVELIHOOD AND A PART OF THEIR TRADITION AND CULTURE AND THAT IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE TRY TO GET IT BACK AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

>> Laura: LAURA MCCARTHY IS NEW MEXICO STATE FORESTER.

IN HER ROLE, SHE BRINGS VARIOUS AGENCIES AND COMMUNITIES TOGETHER TO WORK ON ONE OF THE STATE'S MOST PRESSING PROBLEMS.

>> McCarthy: WE ARE GOING THROUGH AN UNPRECEDENTED TIME IN TERMS OF THE SPEED AT WHICH FORESTS ARE CHANGING AND THE ENVIRONMENT IS CHANGING.

AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ECOSYSTEMS THAT HAVE EVOLVED OVER MILLENNIA AND SO THE BIG UNKNOWN QUESTIONS ARE HOW WILL FORESTS ADAPT AND WHICH PIECES AND PARTS WITHIN AN ECOSYSTEM ARE GOING TO RESPOND QUICKLY AND ADAPT QUICKLY AND WHICH WILL NOT?

>> Laura: WE KNOW NOW CLIMATE CHANGE DRIVES BIGGER AND HOTTER WILDFIRES AND A LONGER FIRE SEASON.

BUT RISING TEMPERATURES AND CHANGES IN PRECIPITATION LIKE LESS SNOW PACK, THAT AFFECTS FORESTS IN OTHER WAYS TOO.

DROUGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, IT KILLS TREES OUTRIGHT.

IT ALSO WEAKENS A TREE'S DEFENSE AGAINST PESTS LIKE BARK BEETLES.

>> Fromby: WHEN I AM WALKING OUT IN THE FOREST I AM NOT LOOKING FOR HEALTHY TREES.

I AM LOOKING FOR ANY KIND OF TINGE OF SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT TREE AND GENERALLY IF IT IS A BARK BEETLE, WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS THE WHOLE CANOPY KIND OF CHANGED TO A STRAW COLOR.

EVENTUALLY IT TURNS A RED RUST COLOR IF IT HAS BEEN DEAD FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.

>> Laura: EVERY YEAR THE STATE DOES AERIAL SURVEYS.

THE 2020 SURVEY SHOWED A 9% INCREASE IN INSECT AND DROUGHT STRESS FROM THE YEAR BEFORE.

>> Fromby: THERE IS A COUPLE SIGNS THAT I LOOK FOR.

WHETHER THAT IS WOODPECKERS PECKING AT THE BARK, SOME OTHER INDICATORS ARE THE PITCH TUBES THAT HAVE DRIED AND THEN YOU CAN SEE EXIT HOLES.

IF THE TREE HAS BEEN ATTACKED FOR SO LONG THOSE EGGS WILL REACH ADULTHOOD AND THEN BORE THEIR WAY OF THE TREE AND YOU WILL SEE THESE TINY ROUND EXIT HOLES.

>> Laura: OVER THE LAST DECADE, DROUGHT AND HOT CONDITIONS HAVE CAUSED BARK BEETLES TO KILL MORE THAN 1.5 MILLION ACRES OF NEW MEXICO'S FORESTS.

DEFOLIATORS LIKE CATERPILLARS AND PINON NEEDLE SCALE, THEY HAVE AFFECTED ALMOST FOUR MILLION ACERS IN THAT TIME.

STATE FORESTRY RELIES ON SCIENCE FOR SURVEYS, TREATMENTS, UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

AND PART OF DEPUTY DIRECTOR LINDSEY QUAM'S JOB IS MAKING SURE THAT NEW MEXICO'S 23 SOVEREIGN TRIBES ARE A PART OF CONVERSATIONS AROUND FOREST HEALTH.

>> Quam: I THINK THE ADVANTAGE THEY HAVE IS THAT THEY HOLD LAND THAT HAS BEEN HERE FOR MILLENNIA.

THEY ARE ON THEIR ANCESTRAL LANDS SO THEY ARE THE ORIGINAL STEWARDS OF THIS LAND.

THEY HAVE BEEN HERE MANAGING THIS LANDSCAPE, THEY HAVE SEEN THE CHANGES, THEY KNOW THE CHANGES, THEY HAVE A LOT OF TRADITIONAL ECOLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE THAT I THINK WE NEED TO TAP INTO AND LISTEN TO HELP US WITH TODAY'S PROBLEMS BECAUSE IN THEIR STORIES, IN THEIR CULTURE, THEY SPEAK OF THIS.

IT IS UP TO US TO PUT THE SCIENCE WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE.

>> Laura: TODAY CHAD BROWN IS FOREST DEVELOPMENT AND RESTORATION MANAGEMENT FOR SANTA CLARA PUEBLO.

HE STARTED WORKING IN SANTA CLARA CANYON IN 2012, THE YEAR AFTER LOS CONCHAS WHEN CREWS WERE DEALING WITH FLOODS AND ASH AND DEBRIS FLOW, THEY HAD TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO REMOVE THE TREES DAMMING UP THE CANYON.

>> Brown: IF WE HADN'T DONE THAT, THEN IT WOULD HAVE CREATED LIKE LOG DAMS AND STRUCTURES TO WHERE THE NEXT DEBRIS FALL COULD HAVE IMPACTED THE HOMES DOWN AT THE BASE OF THE CANYON.

>> Laura: NOW HE WORKS ON PLANTING AND RESTORATION AND SEES HOW EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED.

>> Brown: IT HAS BEEN SEVERAL YEARS SINCE OUR LAST FLOOD BUT ALL THE TREES THAT HAVE BEEN WITHIN THIS SANTA CLARA CREEK TRIBUTARY, THEY HAVE SEEN THE FIRE, THEY HAVE SEEN THE FLOODS AND NOW THEY ARE GETTING IMPACTED WITH THE INSECTS COMING IN BECAUSE OF THE STRESSES FROM ALL THOSE PREVIOUS THINGS, AND YOU'RE GETTING COMPLEX LAYERS OF THINGS THAT ARE IMPACTING THESE TREES AND WE SEE A LOT MORE MORTALITY.

>> Laura: THIS LANDSCAPE HERE IN SANTA CLARA CANYON, IT HAS BEEN THE PEOPLES' HOMELAND FOR MILLENNIA.

>> Brown: THE GOVERNOR TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE FOREST AND CANYON BEING A SANCTUARY, THE GROCERY STORE, OUR PHARMACY AND THAT REFLECTED BACK IN THE CULTURE AND STORIES AND SONGS.

IF YOU TALK TO ANYONE IN THE COMMUNITY THEY ALL HAVE A STORY ABOUT BEING IN THE CANYON.

EVERYONE HAS A FAVORITE PLACE IN THE CANYON.

THERE IS THAT LONG HISTORY OF PEOPLE BEING HERE.

>> Laura: THIS LANDSCAPE HAS TAKEN CARE OF THEM.

AND THE PEOPLE OF SANTA CLARA WILL CONTINUE TAKING CARE OF THIS LANDSCAPE NO MATTER WHAT CHANGES ARE COMING.

>> Gene: ON OUR LAND WE TALK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS BUT THERE IS ALSO A CRITICAL CONVERSATION AROUND LABOR.

SPECIFICALLY THE WORKFORCE THAT FIGHTS THESE FIRES.

WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE UNDER IMMENSE PRESSURE TAKING ON LARGER FIRES THROUGHOUT A LONGER AND LONGER SEASON.

THAT HAS TAKEN A TOLL ON THESE INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

LAURA PASKUS SAT DOWN WITH A GROUP OF WORKERS LATE LAST YEAR TO SEE WHAT CONCERNS THEY HAVE AND HOW BEST TO ADDRESS THEM.

>> Laura: MARCUS, JONATHAN, KELLY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU!

CAN WE START WITH YOU MARCUS.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT LIFE IS LIKE FOR A WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER?

>> Cornwell: SURE.

I WOULD SAY, FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A VERY SORT OF SATISFYING AND FULFILLING CAREER.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DO IT LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE, LIKE TO HELP THEIR NEIGHBORS.

IT IS A PUBLIC SERVICE THAT I THINK A LOT OF US STILL ARE SATISFIED IN DOING IT AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THE REALITIES WE ARE STARTING TO FACE NOW WITH POTENTIAL CLIMATE CHANGE, I WOULD SAY, INCREASED FIRE SEASONS, MORE COMPLEX, LONGER DURATION, WE ARE REALLY STARTING TO GO SEE, I WOULD SAY, FIREFIGHTERS IN A CRISIS MODE.

AND THIS CRISIS MODE IS DUE TO ATTRITION.

WE HAVE LESS FIREFIGHTERS ON THE GROUND AT FEDERAL LEVELS BECAUSE THE PAY AND BENEFITS ARE NOT ADEQUATE.

FOLKS ARE ASKED TO BASICALLY HAVE THESE YEAR-ROUND FIRE SEASONS WHERE WE ARE COMMITTED TO GO HELP ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO, I WOULD SAY WE ARE REALLY KIND OF APPROACHING A TRAIN WRECK AND A SERIOUS ISSUE WHERE FIREFIGHTERS ARE TIRED, KIND OF CHALLENGED MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY AND IT IS REALLY STARTING TO ENTER A CRISIS MODE, I WOULD SAY.

>> Laura: KELLY MARTIN, YOU WORKED AS A WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOR 35 YEARS FOR THE FOREST SERVICE AND FOR THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS SORT OF LONG-TERM IMMERSION IN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE SEE SORT OF IN MUNICIPAL FIREFIGHTERS OR EVEN POLICE OFFICERS.

WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE DEALING WITH SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT.

>> Martin: CORRECT.

THE IMMERSION THAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS WAY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WHEN I STARTED 35 YEARS AGO.

I MIGHT HAVE GAINED MAYBE 400 HOURS OF OVERTIME DURING A SUMMER SEASON AND NOW WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE REGULARLY WORKING 1000, 1500 AND I THINK I HAVE EVEN HEARD THERE IS PEOPLE ALMOST WORKING LIKE 2,000 HOURS OF OVERTIME A YEAR.

SO, THIS CONSTANT IMMERSION IN AN EMERGENCY MODE IS REALLY HAVING A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON PEOPLES' MENTAL HEALTH AND WELLBEING.

TO SAY NOTHING OF THEIR PHYSICAL WELLBEING AS WELL.

WHEN THEY ARE EXPOSED TO TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF SMOKE, LOTS OF RISKS.

>> Laura: EARLIER THIS YEAR FIREFIGHTER TIM HART WAS KILLED DUE TO INJURIES HE SUSTAINED ON A FIRE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

AFTER HIS DEATH, I REMEMBER SEEING A GO-FUND-ME CAMPAIGN TO HELP HIS FAMILY DEALING WITH THE EXPENSES DUE TO HIS HOSPITALIZATION.

AND I JUST REMEMBER THINKING HE WAS A FEDERAL EMPLOYEE WORKING ON A FEDERAL FIRE.

WHAT KINDS OF -- HOW ARE FIREFIGHTERS TAKEN CARE OF WHEN THEY SUSTAIN INJURIES OR UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENTS LIKE THIS?

>> Cornwell: THAT IS KIND OF THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT WAS STARTED ROUGHLY 20 YEARS AGO CALLED WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOUNDATION AND REALLY THAT ORGANIZATION WAS THE CATALYST AND IT IS ALL CHARITY DONATIONS FROM BASICALLY WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS SUPPORTING EACH OTHER.

I WOULD SAY RECENTLY LAND MANAGEMENT AGENCIES HAVE STARTED TO DO A BETTER JOB.

I WOULD GIVE CREDIT THERE BUT I WOULD SAY STARTING TO.

WE ARE SEEING WHERE THEY ARE NOT BEING ABLE TO COVER, YOU KNOW, THESE GO-FUND-ME AND WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOUNDATION COVER TIM'S FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL DOWN, BE ABLE TO COVER MORTGAGE AND BILLS WHEN HE IS IN A TOUGH POSITION IN A HOSPITAL, ANY OF THE FIREFIGHTERS, TO BE ABLE TO HELP THE FAMILY MAKE IT THROUGH.

THESE FAMILIES THAT WE HAVE, BASICALLY DEPEND ON US BEING FIREFIGHTERS AND US GOING AND WORKING AND BEING AWAY FROM HOME FOR SIX MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.

AS SOON AS THAT MONEY IS GONE, THERE IS NO BASE, THERE IS NO HELP FOR THE FAMILIES.

>> Laura: JONATHAN, YOU WERE A WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOR OVER A DECADE.

I AM WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE PRIVATE STRUGGLES THAT WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE GOING THROUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE IN THE PUBLIC JUST HAVE NO IDEA THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

>> Golden: YEAH, THANKS AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE.

PRIVATE STRUGGLES THAT I WENT THROUGH AND I KNOW MY FRIENDS HAVE GONE THROUGH ARE JUST THE ISOLATION THAT YOU FEEL AND THE SEPARATION YOU HAVE FROM YOUR FRIENDS FROM YOUR FAMILIES BACK HOME, THE EVENTS THAT YOU MISS OUT ON, BIRTHDAYS, WEDDINGS, GRADUATIONS.

I EVEN KNOW OF HUSBANDS AND PARTNERS THAT I WAS ON FIRE WITH WHILE THEIR WIFE DELIVERED THEIR CHILDREN.

YOU MISS OUT ON THESE SIGNIFICANT MOMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TIME TO LAY DOWN AT NIGHT AND TRY TO GET SOME SLEEP, YOU KNOW, YOU THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND IT REALLY BEGINS TO WEIGH ON YOU, WHAT AM I MISSING OUT ON?

WHAT AM I DOING HERE?

WHEN THAT GOES ON, YOU KNOW, IT BECOMES A REAL STRUGGLE AND SOMETIMES WE ARE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY BURY OR SUPPRESS THOSE MEMORIES BUT IT COMES OUT IN THE WINTERTIME.

PEOPLE TURN TO ALCOHOL OR DRUGS.

WE LOST PARTNERS AND FRIENDS TO SUICIDE FROM IT ALL.

SO, IT IS A REAL PROBLEM.

>> Laura: THE PUBLIC, WE VERY MUCH HAVE THIS PERCEPTION OF WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS WHEN OUR COMMUNITIES ARE AT RISK, PEOPLE GO OUT THERE WITH SIGNS AND WANT TO BAKE COOKIES AND DROP OFF WATER AND ARE SO GRATEFUL WHEN YOU ALL ARRIVE.

BUT IT REALLY FEELS TO ME THAT THERE IS THIS DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT WE THE PUBLIC THINK YOU ALL ARE GOING THROUGH AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

AND I AM CURIOUS HOW ARE YOU SUPPORTED BY THESE FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT WE ALL PAY TAXES TO AND ARE IMAGINING THAT YOU'RE BEING SUPPORTED.

IS THERE SUPPORT FOR THINGS LIKE DEPRESSION OR PTSD OR ANXIETY OR HELPING ADDRESS THIS WORK/LIFE BALANCE THAT SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM.

>> Cornwell: I WOULD SAY THOSE ARE CATCH WORDS THAT AGENCY LEADERSHIP HAS THROWN OUT, WORK/LIFE BALANCE, BUT THE REALITY, LAURA, IS THAT THESE PROGRAMS ARE ANEMIC AT BEST.

SO, I WOULD BE REMISS TO SAY THERE IS NO HELP.

WE DO HAVE HELP NETWORKS BUT I MYSELF HAVE TRIED TO LOOK INTO THEM, LIKE, FOR ME AS A FIRST RESPONDER, TO SEEK HELP ON A PARTICULAR KIND OF ISSUE, LIKE, THERE IS NO COUNSELORS IN MY AREA THAT SPECIALIZE IN THAT THAT ARE WITHIN THAT PROGRAM.

THAT IS THE THING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FACED WITH.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH HELP.

AND IT IS DIFFICULT TO GO THROUGH THE PROGRAM AND REALLY YOU ONLY GET LIKE FIVE TO SEVEN VISITS AND THEN IT IS ON YOU.

I WOULD SAY IT IS VERY POOR.

IT THINK IT IS A KNOWN ISSUE AND FOLKS ARE WORKING ON IT BUT AT A REALLY SLOW RATE TO MAKE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE, I WOULD SAY.

WE NEED MORE MONEY.

WE NEED BETTER PROGRAMS AND WE NEED MORE SUPPORT.

>> Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, ALL THREE OF YOU, SO MUCH FOR THIS CONVERSATION.

I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR ENERGY ON THIS TOPIC.

>> Cornwell: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US LAURA.

THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS IMPORTANT TO NEW MEXICO AND IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND INTEREST.

>> Gene: AFTER THAT CONVERSATION LATE LAST YEAR, ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT CHANGES THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND CONGRESS WERE MAKING AND SEE WHAT THE OUTLOOK FOR WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS IN NEW MEXICO LOOKED LIKE.

WHAT SHE DISCOVERED WAS NOT REASSURING.

>> Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT LAST YEAR RIGHT ABOUT THE TIME WE DID THAT INTERVIEW, THE FOREST SERVICE HAD JUST RAISED PAY, I THINK, TO $15 AN HOUR WHICH REALLY SEEMS REALLY LOW GIVEN THE RISKS THAT PEOPLE FACE, BUT I AM CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT STAFFING LOOKS LIKE FOR THE COMING FIRE SEASON OR IF WE KNOW THAT YET.

>> Golden: I THINK THE EARLY INDICATIONS ARE THAT WE ARE STILL COMING UP WOEFULLY SHORT IN RECRUITING TALENT TO COME AND DO THIS JOB.

IT IS A HARD JOB.

YET THE ADMINISTRATION IMPLEMENTED A MINIMUM WAGE OF $15 AN HOUR FOR WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS AND THEN THE BUDGETING INFRASTRUCTURE ACT WAS PASSED WHICH SOUGHT TO INCREASE SALARIES BY EITHER 20,000 OR 50% WHICHEVER WAS LESS FOR THE REMAINING AMOUNT OF THE WORKFORCE, I THINK, UP TO THE GS9 LEVEL AND THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IMPLEMENTED ON OCTOBER 1.

TO MY BEST KNOWLEDGE SPEAKING WITH FRIENDS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE STILL WORKING FOR THE FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT ARE UNDER GS9, THEY STILL HAVEN'T RECEIVED THAT MONEY.

AND THAT IS REALLY WEIGHING ON THEM AND THAT IS CONTRIBUTING FOR PEOPLE TO DECIDE TO JUST WALK AWAY ALTOGETHER, RIGHT.

THERE IS OTHER AGENCIES OR ENTITIES THEY CAN WORK FOR WHERE THEY ARE VALUED AND I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE NOT VALUED.

EVERYBODY THAT I EVER WORKED FOR, EITHER THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR AGENCY OR FOREST SERVICE HAS BEEN OPENLY APPRECIATIVE FOR THE WORK WE HAVE DONE BUT SOMETIMES THANKS DOESN'T FILL UP THE BANK ACCOUNT AND PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE, PAY FOR HEALTHCARE, RAISE A FAMILY, ET CETERA.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT HAD THOSE RAISES COME WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE COME, WE MIGHT BE SEEING A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT STORY BUT RIGHT NOW IT IS LOOKING PRETTY BLEAK FOR RETENTION AND RECRUITMENT IN A LOT OF THE AREAS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> Laura: WHAT DOES IT POTENTIALLY MEAN FOR COMMUNITIES IN THE WEST IF THERE ISN'T THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE THAT IS REQUIRED?

>> Golden: YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE A LOCAL OR STATE JURISDICTION SHOW UP.

YOU'LL PROBABLY STILL HAVE A FEDERAL COMPONENT.

IT JUST MEANS RESPONSE TIMES ARE GOING TO LAG, REALLY, AND TRULY.

THAT IS KIND OF THE DIFFERENCE MAKER, RIGHT?

YOU'RE GOING -- SOMEBODY IS GOING TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL 911.

THEY ARE GOING TO WONDER WHERE THESE RESOURCES ARE AND THAT IS JUST KIND OF IN MY MIND, I FEEL LIKE THAT IS A LITTLE BIT UNACCEPTABLE.

WE ARE EXPECTING AND ACCUSTOMED TO EMERGENCY SERVICES SHOWING UP PROMPTLY AND IF THEY ARE IN PROXIMITY THEY WILL BUT IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE A RETENTION ISSUE AND A RECRUITMENT ISSUE, IT IS REALLY GOING TO LIMIT OUR NATIONAL CAPACITY TO ADDRESS WHAT IS TURNING TO BE A GROWING CRISIS NOT JUST IN THE WEST.

>> Laura: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR CONTINUED WORK AND FOR TALKING TO ME ABOUT THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES.

>> Golden: THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Gene: THIS YEAR SO FAR, FIREFIGHTERS HAVE SHOWN UP TO EVERY FIRE ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

BUT THIS CAN'T BE ALL ON THEM.

IF YOU LIVE IN A WILDFIRE PRONE AREA, THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO DO TO PROTECT YOURSELF, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR PROPERTY AND YOUR NEIGHBORS.

OUR CREW VISITED WITH TOM SWETNAM OUTSIDE JEMEZ SPRINGS TO LEARN EXACTLY WHAT PRECAUTIONS PEOPLE SHOULD BE TAKING.

>> Laura: MANY PEOPLE LIVING IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS HAVE HOMES TUCKED INTO THE FORESTS.

THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH NATURE ARE INTIMATE AND SOMETIMES TRICKY.

A FEW YEARS AGO TOM SWETNAM MOVED BACK TO THE JEMEZ WHERE HE GREW UP.

>> Swetnam: MY FATHER WAS A FOREST RANGER SO WE LIVED HERE IN THE 1960'S AND THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN HOME.

NEW MEXICO HAS ALWAYS BEEN HOME SO I AM COMING HOME.

>> Laura: SWETNAM IS A TREE RING EXPERT AND PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA.

HE STUDIES DROUGHT AND PAST FIRES IN TREE RING RECORDS AND SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WELL HOW FIRES IN THE SOUTHWEST ARE BECOMING BIGGER AND HOTTER.

>> Swetnam: WHEN I TOLD SOME FOLKS I WAS MOVING TO JEMEZ SPRINGS AND MOVING UP INTO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY SAID YOU ARE MOVING WHERE?

RIGHT UP INTO THE FOREST AND RIGHT INTO THE SO-CALLED URBAN SPACE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A PRETTY DENSE AND DANGEROUS FOREST.

I THINK PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED, YOU KNOW, THAT ME, I HAVE BEEN PREACHING ABOUT FIRE PROBLEMS AND HOUSES AND FORESTS AS A PROBLEM THAT I WOULD MOVE TO A PLACE LIKE THAT.

ALL OVER THE JEMEZ THERE IS PROBABLY MORE THAN 1000 HOMES BUILT WITHIN FORESTS LIKE THIS, PONDEROSA PINE THAT ARE OVERGROWN WITH TOO MANY FUELS.

AND AS WE COME INTO THE DROUGHT SEASON THE RISK FOR FIRE IS JUST GETTING GREATER AND GREATER.

>> Laura: DECADES OF FIRE SUPPRESSION ON TOP OF DROUGHT AND WARMER CLIMATES HAVE CREATED CONDITIONS THAT MAKE FIRES BURN FASTER AND HOTTER THAN IN PAST CENTURIES.

THINNING FORESTS CAN HELP REDUCE THAT RISK AND PEOPLE CAN ALSO PREPARE THEIR HOMES.

>> Swetman: A FIRE WISE HOME MEANS THAT IT IS LESS LIKELY TO CATCH ON FIRE AS A FIRE COMES AND APPROACHES IT AND PASSES BY.

SO, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS KEEP THE FIRE FROM STARTING ON ANY PART OF THE STRUCTURE, ESPECIALLY WOODEN PARTS OF THE STRUCTURE, ANY EXPOSED WOOD.

SO YOU MOVE THE FUELS AWAY FROM THE HOUSE AND THE FARTHER AWAY THE BETTER.

30 FEET TO 50 FEET IS SORT OF A MINIMUM.

YOU WANT TO GET YOUR FIREWOOD AWAY FROM THE HOUSE.

YOU WANT TO GET TREES AWAY FROM THE HOUSE.

AND YOU WANT TO HAVE CLEARED SPACE AROUND THE HOUSE.

IN ADDITION TO ALL THE FUELS THAT IS AROUND TYPICALLY HOUSES UP HERE, YOU SEE THESE OUTDOOR PROPANE TANKS AND THOSE ARE A BIG RISK BECAUSE IF FIRE GETS UNDER THOSE AND STARTS HEATING THEM UP, THEY WILL POP OFF A SAFETY VALVE AND START SHOOTING FLAMES OUT OF THE TOP OF THEM.

IF THAT SAFETY VALVE DOESN'T WORK LIKE IT IS SUPPOSED TO, IT WILL BLOW UP AND GO OFF LIKE A BOMB.

>> Laura: SWETNAM SAYS HE STILL HAS WORK TO DO AROUND HIS OWN PROPERTY TO MAKE SURE HE IS READY FOR WHAT MIGHT BE AN EARLY FIRE SEASON.

HE IS GOING TO REMOVE OLD WOOD NEAR THE HOUSE, BURY THAT PROPANE TANK AND MAYBE CUT MORE TREES.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO THINK AHEAD, NOT JUST FOR YOUR OWN HOME BUT FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS AND THE FIREFIGHTERS WHO COME IN WHEN EVERYONE ELSE IS EVACUATING.

>> Swetman: FIREFIGHTERS HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES TRYING TO SAVE HOMES BUT IF YOU HAVE TREATED AROUND YOUR HOME AND REMOVED THE FUELS AROUND YOUR HOME, IT IS MUCH MORE DEFENSIBLE SO FIREFIGHTERS ARE MORE LIKELY TO COME IN AND TRY TO SAVE YOUR HOME.

IT WILL BE A SAFER PLACE FOR THEM TO BE WHILE THEY ARE TRYING TO PUT THE FIRE OUT.

LIKEWISE, FOR YOUR NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T TREAT YOUR PROPERTY BUT YOUR NEIGHBOR DOES, YOUR NEIGHBOR IS STILL AT GREAT RISK BECAUSE YOUR HOUSE MAY BURN AND CAUSE EMBERS AND HEAT AND FLAMES TO COME OVER ON TO THEIR HOUSE.

SO, WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER WITH THE FIREFIGHTERS IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT IS MORE ABOUT DOING THIS NOT JUST FOR YOURSELF, BUT FOR EVERYONE.

>> Laura: THIS YEAR'S DRY CONDITIONS ARE SCARY ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE LIVING WITHIN THE FOREST.

SWETNAM SAYS PEOPLE CAN PROTECT THEIR HOMES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES, KEEP TRACK OF WEATHER CONDITIONS, KEEP IN TOUCH WITH NEIGHBORS AND OFFICIALS AND KNOW WHEN IT IS TIME TO LEAVE.

EYTAN, THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

SO, IN THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT WE HEARD FROM TOM SWETNAM WHO DESCRIBED SOME WAYS THAT PEOPLE CAN PROTECT THEIR HOMES FROM WILDFIRES.

IS THERE HELP FOR THIS SORT OF WORK FOR PEOPLE TO BE GETTING READY FOR WILDFIRES?

>> Krasilovsky: YES, THERE IS QUITE A FEW RESOURCES IN NEW MEXICO TO HELP RESIDENTS, HOMEOWNERS, LANDOWNERS AND A FEW REALLY GOOD RESOURCES.

SO, NEW MEXICO, FORESTRY DIVISION, ENERGY, MINERALS AND NATURAL RESOURCE DEPARTMENT, ENMRD, THEY HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES ON THEIR WEBSITE AND THEIR STAFF AT THEIR DISTRICT OFFICES OFTEN TALK TO RESIDENTS ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO.

ANOTHER GREAT RESOURCE IS YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT.

MANY NEW MEXICANS LIVE IN RURAL AREAS AND YOUR VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT IS A GREAT RESOURCE.

THEY ARE OFTEN THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE THE FIRST RESPONDERS IF THERE IS A CALL.

AND, SO, THEY ARE GREAT TO TALK TO.

ANOTHER GOOD RESOURCE IS A WEBSITE CALLED FIRE ADAPTIVE NEW MEXICO LEARNING NETWORK OR FACNM.ORG.

THERE IS A LOT OF RESOURCES ON THERE AND EVEN SOME WORKBOOKS THAT A RESIDENT CAN TAKE THE WORKBOOK AND WALK AROUND THEIR RESIDENCE AND SCORE THEMSELVES AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THEY CAN DO.

AND OFTEN A LOT OF THESE APPROACHES START FROM THE STRUCTURE AND WORK THEIR WAY OUT.

>> Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS WE HEARD FROM SOME FOLKS IS THAT THEY DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT THE MCBRIDE EVACUATION ORDERS UNTIL LIKE SOMEBODY HAD CONTACTED THEM BECAUSE THEY SAW IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

DO YOU HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR HOW PEOPLE CAN STAY INFORMED DURING FIRE SEASON OR DURING A FIRE?

>> Krasilovsky: THE COMMUNICATION, ESPECIALLY WHEN AN INCIDENT IS FIRST OCCURRING AND EVOLVING, IS REALLY TRICKY.

TALKING TO YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT AGAIN CAN HELP YOU FIND OUT IF THERE IS A LIST OR A SYSTEM THAT THE MUNICIPALITY OR THE COUNTY USES.

I KNOW WHERE I LIVE THERE IS AN ALERT SYSTEM AND I GET ALERT EMAILS ABOUT ALL SORTS OF INCIDENTS NOT JUST WILDFIRE BUT FOR RED FLAG DAYS, WHICH RED FLAG DAY INDICATES THAT IF A FIRE STARTS IT WILL SPREAD RAPIDLY.

SO, CONNECTING WITH YOUR LOCAL RESPONDERS IS A GREAT FIRST STEP.

I THINK IT IS A LOT OF LEARNING.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY EVALUATING, ADAPTING AND TRYING THINGS AND HAVE A HUMBLE APPROACH TO THIS.

>> Laura: THE FIRST EARTH DAY IN THE UNITED STATES WAS APRIL 22, 1970.

DURING THAT TIME, CONGRESS WAS PASSING BIPARTISAN LAWS, LAWS RECKONING WITH DECADES OF POLLUTION.

THESE ARE LAWS LIKE THE CLEAN AIR AND WATER ACTS, NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ACT, ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT AND SAFE DRINKING WATER ACT.

TODAY LOOKING AROUND THE UNITED STATES AND LOOKING AROUND NEW MEXICO WE SEE HOW THOSE LAWS ENACTED 50 YEARS AGO HAVE MATTERED TO EACH OF US.

AS A SOCIETY WE SAW WHAT POLLUTION WAS DOING TO US, TO THE ENVIRONMENT, TO FUTURE GENERATIONS AND WE KNEW WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING.

OF COURSE, A LOT OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE 1970'S, SOME FOR THE BETTER.

AND SOME, WELL, HERE IN NEW MEXICO ON AVERAGE IT IS ABOUT THREE DEGREES WARMER THAN IT WAS.

OUR MOUNTAIN SNOW PACKS HAVE CHANGED.

OUR RIVERS FLOW WITH LESS WATER THAN THEY DID DECADES AGO.

AND MANY OF OUR RESERVOIRS CONTINUE TO BE FRIGHTENINGLY LOW YEAR AFTER YEAR.

NOT ONLY DO FIRES BURN BIGGER, FIRE SEASON IS LONGER.

AND OUR FORESTS OFTEN DON'T RECOVER AFTERWARDS.

JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE RELEASED YET ANOTHER ASSESSMENT.

WE KNOW WHY THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

WE HAVE PUMPED AND PUMPED FOSSIL FUELS OUT OF THE GROUND AND GREEN HOUSE GASES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

THIS HAS WARMED OUR PLANET.

IT HAS WARMED OUR SOILS, OUR FORESTS, OUR FARMLANDS.

SCIENTISTS KEEP TELLING US WE NEED TO CUT GREEN HOUSE GAS EMISSIONS IMMEDIATELY AND DRASTICALLY.

SCIENTISTS, ALONG WITH INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE WITH DEEP TRADITIONAL AND ECOLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE, THEY ALL KEEP TELLING US WE HAVE THE TOOLS TO CUT GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS TO MITIGATE THE WORST OF THE IMPACTS, TO ADAPT TO THE CHANGES WE ALREADY SEE AND KNOW AND YET EVEN HERE IN NEW MEXICO WHERE WE SEE THE CONSEQUENCES OF CLIMATE CHANGE SO VERY CLEARLY, LAWMAKERS AND GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE NOT TRULY RECKONING, NOT JUST FOR THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT WITH OUR STATE'S ROLE IN CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE.

ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO, I INTERVIEWED RUSSELL TRAIN.

HE DIED IN 2012 BUT HE WAS THE NATION'S SECOND ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY WHICH WAS CREATED IN 1970 THE YEAR OF THAT FIRST EARTH DAY.

WHEN I TALKED TO HIM, HE WAS 84 YEARS OLD.

HE'D SERVED UNDER PRESIDENTS NIXON AND FORD.

WE HAD SPOKE WHEN GEORGE W. BUSH WAS PRESIDENT.

JUST A FEW YEARS AFTER 9-11.

I ASKED HIM THEN IN 2004 IF HE THOUGHT CONGRESS COULD STILL PASS LAWS LIKE THE CLEAN WATER ACT, THE SAFE DRINKING WATER ACT?

HE SAID THAT HE WASN'T SURE NOT BECAUSE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES WEREN'T STILL IMPORTANT OR BECAUSE THE LAWS DIDN'T WORK.

NO.

HE SAID THAT ONCE CONGRESS STARTED PASSING THOSE LAWS, THE INDUSTRIES THEY THREATENED THAT WERE NOW BEING REGULATED STARTED PAYING CLOSER ATTENTION TO POLITICS AND STARTED SPENDING A LOT MORE MONEY.

TRAIN TOLD ME AT THE TIME THAT TEAM PLAYING WITH INDUSTRY WASN'T NEW TO GOVERNMENT BUT HE HAD WATCHED IT CHANGE, HE WATCHED HOW BUSINESS LOBBYISTS IN WASHINGTON D.C.

BECAME VERY ORGANIZED WHEN IT CAME TO THE ENVIRONMENT AND WE KNOW THAT IS EVEN MORE TRUE TODAY.

ACROSS THE U.S.

INCLUDING HERE IN NEW MEXICO, HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WE SEE THE SIGNS OF CLIMATE CHANGE ALL AROUND US.

EVERYDAY AND ALL THE TIME.

WE KNOW WHY THE RIVERS ARE DRYING, WHY FARMERS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WATER, WHY THIS YEAR IN APRIL OR FIRE SEASON IS ALREADY ABSOLUTE MADNESS.

AND WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHY THAT IS HAPPENING.

AND ABOUT HOW WE ARE ACCELERATING THOSE CHANGES.

BY CONTINUING TO DEVELOP FOSSIL FUELS IN THE STATE, BY CONTINUING TO INVEST IN FOSSIL FUELS, BY NOT PIVOTING MORE QUICKLY TOWARDS EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLES.

IN NEW MEXICO, WE DO NOT SHY AWAY FROM HARD CONVERSATIONS.

ABOUT CULTURE, HISTORY, LAND.

WE NEED TO HAVE MORE OF THOSE HARD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT LAND, ABOUT WATER AND ABOUT WHY OUR LANDS ARE DRYING AND OUR WATER IS SHRINKING.

TO SEE THESE REALITIES ON THE GROUND LIKE WE DO ON OUR SHOW ALL THE TIME, IT IS HARD.

IT IS HORRIBLE.

BUT IT IS HARDER TO SEE THAT THERE ARE PATHS FORWARD, PATHS THAT WILL PROTECT FUTURE NEW MEXICANS AND TO KNOW WE ARE DECIDING NOT TO TAKE THOSE PATHS.

52 YEARS AFTER THAT FIRST EARTH DAY, IT IS NOT TIME CELEBRATE.

IT IS TIME TO GET TO WORK.

>> Gene: THANK YOU LAURA FOR THAT MESSAGE.

WE SHOULD ALL BE THINKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN BETTER PREPARE OURSELVES AND ENVIRONMENT FOR THE CHANGES COMING IN THE YEAR AHEAD.

BUT FOR FIRE MANAGEMENT OFFICIALS, THOSE ADJUSTMENTS NEED TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE SEEN THE RISKS THAT COME WITH PRESCRIBED FIRES, EVEN THIS EARLY IN THE YEAR, SO WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE TO LIMIT DAMAGE LATER IN THE SUMMER?

>> Laura: WELCOME BACK.

SO, GIVEN ALL THAT WE KNOW ABOUT WILDFIRES AND HOW FIRE SEASON IS CHANGING WHAT TOOLS DO FEDERAL AGENCIES, STATE AGENCIES REALLY HAVE WHEN IT COMES TO ADDRESSING OUR OVERLY DENSE FORESTS AND THESE FORMING CONDITIONS.

>> Krasilovsky: MOST OF THE PROCESSES INVOLVE REMOVING TREES AND BRINGING FIRE BACK INTO THE ECOSYSTEM USUALLY IN A PRESCRIBED FIRE SITUATION WHEN PEOPLE CHOOSE THE TIME PLACE AND WEATHER CONDITIONS.

SOMETIMES IT IS A FIRE THAT IS NATURALLY IGNITED FROM LIGHTNING AND IT IS DECIDED TO BE MANAGED FOR RESOURCE BENEFIT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FOREST.

MOST PROJECTS START WITH A PLACE AND IDEA AND THEN TREE REMOVAL OF SOME SORT HAPPENS.

OFTENTIMES IT IS THE SMALLEST AND SOMETIMES MEDIUM-SIZED TREES.

IF THE WOOD CAN GET USED, GREAT.

OFTENTIMES THESE PLACES ARE ON REALLY STEEP SLOPES AND FAR AWAY FROM ROADS SO WOOD UTILIZATION CAN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN BUT EVEN WHEN THE WOOD IS USED, TOPS AND LIMBS GET, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T GET REMOVED, THEY ARE LAYING ON THE GROUND.

AND, THERE IS A FEW DIFFERENT OPTIONS FROM THERE.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE WILL PILE THEM AND YOU'LL SEE PILES ON A HILLSIDE AND THOSE PILES WILL GET BURNED IN THE WINTER.

SOMETIMES THEY ARE SPREAD AROUND AND THEN A PRESCRIBED FIRE IS PLANNED AFTERWARDS.

AND THAT FIRE RECYCLES THE NUTRIENTS AND REDUCES FIRE HAZARD OF THE HILLSIDE.

>> Laura: EARLIER THIS YEAR, WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF FIRE SEASON, WE WERE HOPING TO GO OUT WITH YOUR ORGANIZATION TO DO -- TO WATCH A PRESCRIBED FIRE OUT IN THE ZUNI MOUNTAINS AND THAT KIND OF GOT RESCHEDULED AND NOW WE ARE LOOKING AT THE FALL.

AND NOW WE HAVE SEEN THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE.

IT WAS A PRESCRIBED FIRE THAT WENT OUT OF CONTROL.

WHAT DO WE DO WHEN PRESCRIBED FIRE DOESN'T WORK?

LIKE THAT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF GETTING FIRE BACK INTO THE SYSTEM, AN IMPORTANT TOOL, LIKE, WHAT DO WE DO WHEN THAT IS NOT WORKING?

>> Krasilovsky: IT IS TRICKY.

IN THE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE ABOUT THE BURN YOU WERE GOING TO COME OUT TO, WE ARE WAITING AND POSTPONING BUT OUR PLAN STILL IS TO PUT FIRE ON THE GROUND AND TO USE THAT TOOL.

SO, I THINK TIME, WAITING FOR THE RIGHT WINDOW, IS OFTEN ONE APPROACH TO DEALING WITH AVOIDING UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT LIKE THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE.

IN SOME PLACES, THEY HAVE THESE MASTICATION MACHINES THAT DEAL WITH THE FUELS ON THE GROUND BY TURNING THEM INTO SMALLER AND SMALLER FUELS AND THEY KIND OF SHRED THE WOOD UP.

THAT IS ONE APPROACH.

ANOTHER ONE IS TO PUT THE STICKS INTO PILES, BURN THEM AND DON'T COME BACK FOR A PRESCRIBED BURN.

THAT IS ANOTHER OPTION.

OR DON'T COME BACK FOR A BROADCAST PRESCRIBED BURN, WHERE YOU JUST BURN THE PILES AND THEN YOU CALL THE PROJECT DONE.

>> Laura: WE KNOW THAT FIRE IS INEVITABLE IN WESTERN FORESTS AND AS A SOCIETY WE NEED TO ACCEPT AND UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THAT.

SO, WHAT DO MAYBE WE NEED TO CHANGE ABOUT US AND HOW WE USE FORESTS, RELATE TO FORESTS, LIVE NEAR FORESTS?

>> Krasilovsky: YEAH.

WELL, THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION.

WE LIVE IN FORESTS, WE RECREATE IN FORESTS WE USE FOREST FOR CEREMONIAL, SPIRITUAL PURPOSES.

THEY ARE A SOURCE FOR THE ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, HUNTING IS A REALLY BIG PART OF NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY.

YEAH, UNDERSTANDING OUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE FOREST AND THE FIRE THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I DON'T HAVE A GREAT ANSWER.

I THINK IT IS A LOT OF LEARNING.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY EVALUATING, ADAPTING AND TRYING THINGS AND HAVE A HUMBLE APPROACH TO THIS.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF GREAT RESOURCE MANAGERS, GREAT FIRE MANAGERS IN NEW MEXICO, GREAT RESEARCHERS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ANSWER IS NOT A STRAIGHT LINE AND IT IS NOT SUPER CLEAR.

>> Gene: THESE ARE SERIOUS CHALLENGES, SCARY ONES AND EXPENSIVE TOO.

BUT, IF WE PLAN AHEAD, LEARN FROM HISTORY, COOPERATE WITH ONE ANOTHER, THERE ARE CERTAINLY THINGS WE CAN DO TO PROTECT OUR COMMUNITIES, OUR WATERSHEDS AND CONTINUE TO BUILD NEW RELATIONSHIPS WITH OUR FORESTS.

WE END OUR SHOW WITH AN INSPIRATIONAL OUR LAND EPISODE WHEN OUR CREW DISCOVERED HOW THE CERRO NEGRO FOREST COUNCIL HELPS PROTECT THE CARSON NATIONAL FOREST.

>> Laura: A FEW YEARS AGO, J.R. LOGAN LOOKED OUT ACROSS HIS BACKYARD IN SAN CRISTOBAL IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

IT WAS GETTING ON TOWARD FALL WHEN HE AND OTHERS WHO RELY UPON WOOD TO HEAT THEIR HOME DRIVE HOURS TO OTHER PARTS OF THE FOREST.

THEN THEY PAY FOR U.S. FOREST SERVICE PERMITS TO COLLECT WOOD.

(REVVING OF CHAINSAW) >> Logan: IT JUST MADE NO SENSE TO ME, SITTING IN MY VALLEY -- SITTING IN MY VALLEY THAT I WOULD HAVE TO GO SO FAR TO GET FIREWOOD WHEN LOOKING LITERALLY OUT MY BACKDOOR THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL STAND OF PONDEROSAS WHERE THE UNDERGROWTH HAS GROWN IN THICK AND POSES A HUGE RISK TO THOSE TREES AND TO MY COMMUNITY AND TO THE WATERSHED AND I THOUGHT, THERE JUST HAS TO BE A WAY WHERE I CAN MAKE IT POSSIBLE OR WE CAN MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR ME AND MY NEIGHBORS TO BE ABLE TO CUT THAT WOOD, WHICH IS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE TO US AS FIREWOOD AND IS IN OUR OWN BACKYARDS AND AT THE SAME TIME MAKE OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR WATERSHED SAFER.

>> Laura: LOGAN MET WITH ELDERS AND LEADERS IN HIS COMMUNITY.

>> Arguello: ...

TRADITIONALLY WE ARE A COLLECTIVIST CULTURE WHERE THE GROUP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE INDIVIDUAL.

>> Laura: THEY GOT TO TALKING ABOUT HOW TO CREATE A FOREST COUNCIL.

AND STRUCTURE IT AS A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AND TALKED ABOUT ACEQUIAS, LAND GRANTS AND THE LONG HISTORY OF PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

>> Arguello: THE GOVERNMENT, INSTEAD OF CREATING A NEW SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE, LET'S USE THE OLD ANCIENT INSTITUTIONAL FORMS OF ORGANIZATION THAT WE HAVE HAD HERE FOR CENTURIES, THREE, 400 YEARS, AND THAT IS THE DISTRIBUTION OF WATER HAS HAD A VERY APPROPRIATE AND VERY SUCCESSFUL GOVERNANCE SYSTEM.

THE LAND GRANTS ALSO HAVE HAD A LONG HISTORY OF GOVERNANCE, VERY DEMOCRATIC, VERY PARTICIPATORY.

>> Montoya: WHAT IS CALLED A PARCIANTES WHEN IT COMES TO A DITCH IS A PERSON WHO HAS A PIECE OF LAND AND IS IRRIGATING, SO THEY NEED A MAYORDOMO TO OVERSEE THAT.

>> Laura: THEY WORKED WITH THE CARSON NATIONAL FOREST, WROTE A GRANT PROPOSAL, BASED BYLAWS ON ACEQUIAS AND LAND GRANTS AND THEY CREATED THE CERRO NEGRO FOREST COUNCIL.

HERE THERE ARE ALMOST 300 ACRES OF PINON, JUNIPER AND SAGE FOREST LAND BETWEEN THE VILLAGES OF SAN CRISTOBAL AND VALDEZ THAT NEED TO BE TREATED, THINNED SO THE FOREST IS HEALTHIER, SO IT IS CLOSER TO HOW IT WAS BEFORE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IMPLEMENTED FIRE SUPPRESSION POLICIES.

>> Logan: OUR PROJECT IN PARTICULAR IS DESIGNED TO REMOVE FUELS THAT OTHERWISE WOULD REALLY RAMP UP AND SUPER CHARGE FIRE BEHAVIOR WERE WE TO SEE A FIRE OCCUR IN THIS AREA.

>> Laura: WHEN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT STOPPED LETTING FORESTS BURN, THEY BECAME OVERCROWDED WITH SMALLER TREES, ALL COMPETING FOR WATER AND SUNLIGHT AND BECOMING ADDITIONAL FUEL FOR WILDFIRES.

FEEDING THEM ALONG WITH DROUGHT AND RISING TEMPERATURES, TO BURN HOTTER AND BIGGER THAN IN THE PAST.

>> Logan: THIS ISN'T A RESTORATION PROJECT WHERE YOU MIGHT SEE IN PONDEROSA PINE WHERE WE ARE TRULY RESTORING AN ECOSYSTEM TO A PLACE THAT IT WAS A MILLENNIA AGO.

RATHER THIS IS RESTORATION FOR THE BENEFIT OF PEOPLE, BUT ALSO THE BENEFIT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE SENSE WE ARE PREVENTING WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE UNCHARACTERISTIC FIRE ESPECIALLY AS WE SEE THE CLIMATE GETTING WARMER, HOTTER AND DRYER OVER THE LONG HAUL.

>> Laura: THE FOREST SERVICE AND COUNCIL DIVIDED THE FOREST HERE INTO ONE ACRE BLOCKS AND ASSIGNED THEM TO A LENEROS OR WOOD CUTTERS.

TREES TO REMAIN ARE MARKED AND THE OTHERS ARE CUT.

THE MAYORDOMO OVERSEES THE WORK AND THE LEÑEROS CAN USE THE WOOD AT HOME OR SELL IT AND THE COUNCIL PAYS THEM $300 AN ACRE FOR THEIR WORK.

THAT IS LESS THAN WHAT THE FOREST SERVICE PAYS CONTRACTORS.

AND ALTHOUGH THE WORK CAN BE SLOWER, IT IS A MODEL FOR OTHER PLACES TOO.

ALREADY, COUNCILS HAVE CROPPED UP IN SOUTHERN TAOS COUNTY.

>> Cordova: MY ROLE IN THIS IS I AM THE LEÑERO, THE GUY THAT CUTS IT AND BUCKS IT, TAKES IT HOME, CHOPS IT UP AND I USE IT FOR HEATING MY HOME.

IT IS MY SOURCE OF ENERGY FOR HEATING BACK AT THE HOUSE.

BUT, YEAH, I HAVE BEEN ON THIS -- I HAVE ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED THREE ONE ACRE BLOCKS AND I AM CURRENTLY WORKING JUST ABOUT FINISHING UP MY FOURTH.

AND I HAVE GOT YET ANOTHER ONE THAT I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED THAT I HAVE GOT TO GET STARTED ON AND TRY TO GET THAT DONE BEFORE THE END OF THE WINTER.

HAVING TO DRIVE 15 MINUTES AS OPPOSED TO TWO HOURS TO GET A GOOD LOAD OF THE BEST WOOD THAT I CAN SAY THERE IS TO BURN, PINON, THIS IS AWESOME.

I AM REALLY GLAD THIS OPENED UP BECAUSE I WAS GETTING KIND OF WORRIED ABOUT FINDING PLACES TO GO GET WOOD.

>> Laura: FOR LOGAN AND LEÑEROS LIKE CORDOVA, THEIR TIME IN THE FOREST ISN'T JUST ABOUT CUTTING WOOD.

IT IS ABOUT CONNECTING WITH THE PAST, SPENDING TIME WITH FAMILY.

>> Cordova: SOMETIMES I JUST COME OUT HERE AND SIT AROUND AND WORK REALLY SLOW.

AND, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS LOOKING FOR DEER, OF COURSE.

NOW THAT IT IS SO OPEN AFTER THEY CLEANED THIS UP, YOU SEE MORE ABUNDANCE OF DEER THAN WHAT WE USED TO IN THE PAST.

>> Laura: HISTORICALLY THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE AND COMMUNITIES IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN FRAUGHT, TO SAY THE LEAST.

THE FEDERAL AGENCIES TOOK OVER COMMON LANDS WHEN IT WAS FORMED IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY PUSHING PEOPLE OFF GRAZING LAND AND HUNTING GROUNDS, REQUIRING PERMITS FOR WOOD CUTTING AND PINON GATHERING.

CLOSING ACCESS TO THE FOREST PEOPLE HAD VISITED FOR GENERATIONS.

THIS COUNCIL IS A STEP TOWARD HEALING NOT JUST THE LAND BUT COMMUNITIES.

>> Montoya: I THINK THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW IS REALLY NICE IN THIS RESPECT THAT WE ARE WORKING WITH THE FOREST SERVICE, FOREST SERVICE IS COOPERATING WITH US.

WE ARE COOPERATING WITH THEM.

AND THINGS ARE GETTING DONE.

IN SOME CASES, NOT IN ALL CASES, WHERE A FAMILY COMES OUT, YOU KNOW, MOM AND DAD AND THEY TAKE KIDS WITH THEM AND THEY ARE ALL HELPING AND THEY TAKE THEIR LITTLE BREAKS FOR THEIR LUNCH OR WHATEVER, WHICH IS AMAZING.

IT IS LIKE NICE.

>> Laura: BEING A LEÑERO IS HARD WORK BUT THERE IS AN ART TO IT, TOO.

AND JOY AT BEING HOME IN THE FOREST.

>> Cordova: WELL, LET'S SAY THIS.

THIS, IN A SENSE, IS A RANCHO, RIGHT?

RANCHO DE LINEA DE PINON.

SO, WE SAY... (SINGING) ALLA EN EL RANCHO GRANDE.

ALLA DONDE VIVIA.

QUE ALEGRE ME DECIA.

ALEGRE ME DECIA.

THERE YOU GO.

FROM THERE ON IT COSTS A DOLLAR.

(LAUGHING) >> Laura: FOR OUR LAND AND NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS I'M LAURA PASKUS.

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