FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.

>> Williams: FOREST FIRE IS  ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT IS INCREASING NOT IN SMALL  INCREMENTAL BITS BUT EXPONENTIALLY.

WE ARE REALLY KIND OF APPROACHING A TRAIN WRECK AND  A SERIOUS ISSUE WHERE FIREFIGHTERS ARE TIRED, THEY  KIND OF ARE CHALLENGED MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY.

OVER THE LAST NEARLY FOUR DECADES WE HAVE SEEN THE  ANNUAL AREA BURN INCREASE BY OVER 300%.

IT IS REALLY STARTING TO ENTER A CRISIS MODE.

>> Gene: WILDFIRE SEASON BURNING EARLY IN NEW MEXICO.

THIS WEEK WE ADDRESS THE STARTLING REALITIES FACING  FOREST AGENCIES AND WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS WHILE TRYING TO  FOCUS ON POTENTIAL POLLUTION TO THE GROWING PROBLEM  THREATENING COMMUNITIES AROUND OUR STATE.

THE LONGEST SEASON AS OUR LAND WILDFIRE SPECIAL STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

SEVERAL WILDFIRES ARE BURNING  RIGHT NOW IN NEW MEXICO.

WE KNEW THE SUMMER HAD  POTENTIAL TO BE A DESTRUCTIVE FIRE SEASON BUT EVEN BEFORE WE  COULD GET THIS SPECIAL ON THE AIR, APRIL WEATHER CONDITIONS  BLEW UP A NUMBER OF SERIOUS FIRES ACROSS THE STATE.

THESE FIRES LIKE THE MCBRIDE FIRE IN RUIDOSO HAVE DESTROYED  HUNDREDS OF HOMES, KILLED TWO PEOPLE SO FAR AND FORCED  THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO EVACUATE HOMES AND LIVESTOCK.

THEY ARE ALSO CREATING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DAMAGE  IN THE COMMUNITIES THEY HAVE THREATENED.

THIS WEEK WE ARE FOCUSING EXCLUSIVELY ON WILDFIRES AND  THE IMPACT THEY ARE HAVING AROUND OUR STATE.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES WE'LL HEAR FROM EXPERTS ON HOW YOU CAN  BETTER PROTECT YOUR HOME FROM FIRES, IF YOU LIVE IN A HIGH  RISK AREA, AND WE'LL MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERY RESOURCE YOU  NEED TO GET NOTIFIED WHEN FIRE COMES YOUR WAY.

THERE ARE ALSO SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT OUR ABILITY AS  A COUNTRY TO SUPPORT AND RECRUIT THE FEDERAL WILDLAND  FIREFIGHTERS ON THE FRONT LINES OF THESE DISASTERS.

IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES, THREE  FIREFIGHTERS SIT DOWN TO TALK ABOUT THE SERIOUS STRESSORS  KEEPING PEOPLE FROM FILLING THOSE CRITICAL POSITIONS.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, A STORY THAT SHOULD GIVE US SOME  OPTIMISM WHEN ADJUSTING TO THESE FIRES.

WE'LL SPEAK WITH THE NEW MEXICO COMMUNITY THAT HAS  CREATED AND MAINTAINED ITS OWN FOREST MANAGEMENT STRATEGY.

BUT FOR THE REST OF THE STATE HOW ELSE CAN WE KEEP THESE  FIRES FROM GROWING OUT OF CONTROL?

WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE BURN BEYOND  CONTAINMENT AFTER STARTING AS A PRESCRIBED BURN.

IN ABOUT 40 MINUTES WE'LL ASK A FORESTRY EXPERT WHAT OTHER  PROTECTIVE TECHNIQUES WE SHOULD BE USING.

BUT WE NEED TO START WITH HOW WE GOT HERE.

THIS FIRE SEASON BLEW UP FAST, REALLY FAST.

AND AS BIOCLIMATOLOGIST TELLS ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA  PASKUS, THE REALITY IS, IN A WARMER WORLD, FIRE SEASON IS  LONGER AND SCARIER.

>> Laura: PARKER WILLIAMS,  WELCOME AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS.

>> Williams: YOU BET.

>> Laura: YOU ARE A BIOCLIMATOLOGIST.

WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN?

>> Williams: SOMEBODY WHO  CAN'T DECIDE WHETHER THEY LIKE TO STUDY THE LIFE MORE OR THE  CLIMATE MORE.

CLIMATE AFFECTS LIFE AND LIFE  AFFECTS CLIMATE.

VEGETATION LIFE IS SOMETHING I  AM REALLY INTERESTED IN AND THAT ESPECIALLY HAS A BIG  AFFECT ON CLIMATE AND SO I STUDY BOTH AND CALL MYSELF A  BIOCLIMATOLOGIST.

>> Laura: IN THE WESTERN  UNITED STATES, HOW HAS FIRE CHANGED AND KIND OF WHAT TIME  PERIOD ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> Williams: OVER THE LAST  CENTURY THE FIRE ACTIVITY IN THE WEST HAS INCREASED BUT THE  VAST MAJORITY OF THAT INCREASE HAS OCCURRED SINCE THE LATE  70'S OR EARLY 1980'S.

OUR REALLY GOOD RECORDS OF  FIRES START IN 1984 AND THAT IS WHEN WE START HAVING REALLY  GOOD HIGH RESOLUTION SATELLITE IMAGERY THAT SHOWS US A MAP OF  WHERE EXACTLY EACH FIRE OCCURRED.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS ACROSS THE WESTERN UNITED STATES WHEN  WE HAVE REALLY GOOD DATA GOING BACK TO 1984, THAT OVER THE  LAST FOUR DECADES, WE HAVE SEEN THE ANNUAL AREA BURNED  INCREASE BY OVER 300%.

OVER 300% MEANS THREE TO FOUR  TIMES AS MUCH FIRE BURNING, AS MUCH LAND AREA BURNING TODAY  AS WOULD BE EXPECTED IN AN AVERAGE YEAR IN THE 1970'S OR  1980'S.

BUT IF YOU LOOK DEEPER AND SEE  WHERE THESE INCREASES ARE REALLY OCCURRING, THEN WE SEE  THEY ARE MOSTLY OCCURRING IN FORESTED AREAS.

FOREST FIRE AREA HAS INCREASED BY OVER 1300% SINCE THE MID  1980'S WHEREAS OUTSIDE OF THE FORESTED AREA, INCREASE IN  BURNED AREA HAS BEEN ABOUT 165%.

AN INCREASE IN 165% IS STILL A BIG DEAL.

IT MEANS MORE THAN DOUBLING OF AREA BURNED IN NON-FORESTED  AREA.

IF THE FOREST FIRES TREND  WASN'T SO HUGE, THAT IS WHAT WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IS  THE DOUBLING OR TRIPLING OF BURNED AREA IN NON-FORESTED  AREAS.

BUT FOREST FIRE HAS REALLY  STOLEN THE SHOW.

AND SO THE QUESTION IS WHY IS  THIS OCCURRING?

WHY ARE FOREST FIRES GETTING  SO MUCH BIGGER?

INTERESTING THING IS THAT THEY  ARE NOT GETTING THAT MUCH MORE FREQUENT.

THERE IS ACTUALLY NOT MANY MORE FOREST FIRES TODAY THAN  THERE WERE IN THE 1980'S.

THE THING IS THAT THE FOREST  FIRES OCCURRING TODAY ARE WAY BIGGER THAN THE FOREST FIRES  IN THE 1980'S.

THAT TREND WAS ALREADY GETTING  CONCERNING 10 YEARS AGO.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST  COUPLE OF YEARS ARE REALLY BLOWING PEOPLES' MINDS.

2020, THE AREA BURNED IN 2020 ALMOST TRIPLED THE PREVIOUS  RECORD IN CALIFORNIA.

THE PREVIOUS RECORD WAS SET IN  2017 OR 2018 AND THAT SEEMED EXTREME AT THE TIME.

THEN 2021 ALMOST REACHED THE 2020 LEVEL.

FOREST FIRE IS ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT IS INCREASING NOT  IN SMALL INCREMENTAL BITS BUT EXPONENTIALLY AND WHEN WE  COMPARE THE ANNUAL AREA BURNED IN THE FOREST TO CLIMATE, IT  IS REALLY CLEAR THE MAIN DRIVER IS A DRYING CLIMATE.

AS THE ATMOSPHERE HAS GOTTEN DRYER AND WARMER OVER THE LAST  FOUR DECADES, FIRE GROWTH HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED IN A VERY  PREDICTABLE WAY.

EVEN THOUGH 2020 WAS SUCH AN  EXTREME OUTLIER TO JUST LOOK AT HOW MUCH BURNED EVERY YEAR,  THAT OUTLIER WAS ACTUALLY TOTALLY PREDICTABLE BASED ON  HOW WARM AND DRY IT WAS IN 2020.

AND 2021 IS THE SAME STORY.

>> Laura: IT FEELS TO ME LIKE  WE ARE ON A TRAJECTORY AND THERE MIGHT BE GOOD YEARS AND  BAD YEARS BUT I AM WONDERING IF YOU CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT  ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE  THINKING ABOUT FOR THE FUTURE.

>> Williams: FROM THE  PERSPECTIVE OF DROUGHT AND FIRE I THINK THAT HOPE IS  INCREASINGLY A BAD THING TO LEAN ON.

HOPE IS A GREAT THING TO USE WHEN GAMBLING WHEN THE ODDS  ARE 50/50 BUT IF YOU ESTABLISH A SYSTEM OF HOPE IN A WORLD  WHERE THE DICE ARE GETTING INCREASINGLY LOADED, THEN HOPE  BECOMES LESS AND LESS REALISTIC.

BUT IT IS STILL CLEAR THAT WE ARE RELYING FAR TOO MUCH ON  HOPE.

THE FOREST SERVICE THIS YEAR  GAVE US A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THIS, WHERE FOREST FIRES WERE  SO EXTENSIVE THIS SUMMER ACROSS NORTHERN CALIFORNIA AND  OREGON AND WASHINGTON AND SOME OF THE NORTHERN ROCKY AREAS  THAT THE CHIEF OF THE FOREST SERVICE DECLARED THAT FOR THE  REST OF THE YEAR, FOREST SERVICE WOULD NOT BE DOING  ANYMORE CONTROLLED BURNS OR MANAGEMENT OF WILDFIRE IN WAYS  THAT ALLOW WILDFIRES TO BURN ECOLOGICALLY FAVORABLE WAYS.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE FOREST SERVICE DECIDED THEY WERE SO  SPREAD THIN ON FIGHTING FIRES, THEY NEEDED TO JUST FOCUS ON  FIGHTING FIRES AND NOT USE ANY RESOURCES TOWARD USING FIRE TO  BURN FORESTED LANDSCAPES IN ORDER TO EAT AWAY AT THIS FIRE  DEFICIT WE HAVE BEEN BUILDING FOR THE LAST CENTURY BY  FIGHTING FIRES.

MANY OF THE FORESTS IN THE  WESTERN UNITED STATES ARE ARTIFICIALLY DENSE BECAUSE WE  HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY FIGHTING FIRES FOR A CENTURY.

MEANING THE AREAS THAT COULD HAVE BURNED IN THE 1950'S AND  60'S DIDN'T, AND TODAY THERE IS MORE FUEL ON THE LANDSCAPE  THAN THERE WOULD BE OTHERWISE.

SO WHEN A LITTLE FIRE COMES  TODAY IN A WARMER WORLD THAT FIRE IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO  BURN VERY INTENSELY.

>> Logan: I THOUGHT THERE HAS  TO BE A WAY WHERE I CAN MAKE IT POSSIBLE, OR WE CAN MAKE IT  POSSIBLE FOR ME AND MY NEIGHBORS TO BE ABLE TO CUT  THAT WOOD WHICH IS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE TO US AS FIREWOOD AND  IN OUR OWN BACKYARD AND AT THE SAME TIME MAKE OUR COMMUNITY  AND OUR WATERSHED SAFER.

>> Gene:   MANY NEW MEXICANS WILL REMEMBER THE 2011 LOS  CONCHAS FIRE IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS WHERE THE KIND OF  FIRE THAT REALLY SHOWED US HOW EXTREME WILDFIRES IN THE  WARMER WORLD WILL BE.

THE IMPACTS ARE STILL  REVERBERATING RATING TODAY IN THE MOUNTAINS, THE WATERSHED  AND FOR DOWNSTREAM COMMUNITIES.

>> Laura: IN JUNE 2011 A MASSIVE WILDFIRE IGNITED AND  ERUPTED IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS.

THE LOS CONCHAS FIRE BURNED 156,000 ACRES.

INCLUDING ABOUT HALF OF THE PUEBLO OF SANTA CLARA'S  WATERSHED.

DANIEL DENIPAH, FORESTRY  DIRECTOR AT THE PUEBLO REMEMBERS THAT SUMMER.

JUST BEFORE LOS CONCHAS HE WAS HERE IN SANTA CLARA CANYON.

WE WERE UP HERE CONSULTING WITH GOVERNOR AT THE TIME AND  WE WERE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE FOREST CONDITIONS BECAUSE  IT WAS SO DRY OUT HERE.

AND WE HAD ALMOST 100% WHAT WE  CALL PROBABILITY OF IGNITION.

>> Laura: THE FOREST WAS  PARCHED HOT AND WHEN A POWER LINE THROUGH THE SANTA FE  NATIONAL FOREST BLEW OVER, THE FIRE BLAZED INTO ACTION  LIKE NO ONE HAD SEEN BEFORE.

LOS CONCHAS BURNED INCREDIBLY  HOT AND FAST.

IN ITS FIRST 14 HOURS IT  SCORCHED MORE THAN 43,000 ACRES.

THAT IS ONE ACRE PER MINUTE.

>> Denipah: WE CAN SEE THOSE  IMPACTS ON THE FIRE AND THE SEVERITY.

THEY WERE REALLY HIGH SEVERITY BURNS AND WE ARE SEEING  LIMITED GROWTH.

>> Laura: 16,000 ACRES OF  SANTA CLARA BURNED.

SOILS WERE SUPER HEATED.

THEY BECAME HARD LIKE CONCRETE.

ALL OF THE FISH DIED IN SANTA CLARA CREEK, A TRIBUTARY OF  THE RIO GRANDE.

AND AFTER THE FIRE, CAME  DANGEROUS BLOODS THAT RIPPED APART THE FLOODPLAIN.

TODAY, ASPENS AND OAK ARE COMING UP WHERE CONIFERS ONCE  GREW AND THE PUEBLO PLANTED ABOUT 800,000 SEEDLINGS LIKE  PONDEROSA PINE AND DOUGLAS FIRS.

IN SOME SPOTS, THOUGH, THOSE SPECIES THAT GREW HERE IN THE  PAST JUST CAN'T SURVIVE IN THIS WARMING WORLD.

DENIPAH SAYS IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP CONNECTIONS WITH THOSE  FORESTS OF THE PAST.

>> Denipah: IT IS IMPORTANT  THAT WE PRESERVE AS MUCH AS WE CAN BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE  TREES ARE SACRED TO THE PEOPLE.

THEY HAVE BEEN A PART OF THEIR LIVELIHOOD AND A PART OF THEIR  TRADITION AND CULTURE AND THAT IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR  US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE TRY TO GET IT BACK AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

>> Laura: LAURA MCCARTHY IS NEW MEXICO STATE FORESTER.

IN HER ROLE, SHE BRINGS VARIOUS AGENCIES AND  COMMUNITIES TOGETHER TO WORK ON ONE OF THE STATE'S MOST  PRESSING PROBLEMS.

>> McCarthy: WE ARE GOING  THROUGH AN UNPRECEDENTED TIME IN TERMS OF THE SPEED AT WHICH  FORESTS ARE CHANGING AND THE ENVIRONMENT IS CHANGING.

AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ECOSYSTEMS THAT HAVE EVOLVED  OVER MILLENNIA AND SO THE BIG UNKNOWN QUESTIONS ARE HOW WILL  FORESTS ADAPT AND WHICH PIECES AND PARTS WITHIN AN ECOSYSTEM  ARE GOING TO RESPOND QUICKLY AND ADAPT QUICKLY AND WHICH  WILL NOT?

>> Laura: WE KNOW NOW CLIMATE  CHANGE DRIVES BIGGER AND HOTTER WILDFIRES AND A LONGER  FIRE SEASON.

BUT RISING TEMPERATURES AND CHANGES IN PRECIPITATION LIKE  LESS SNOW PACK, THAT AFFECTS FORESTS IN OTHER WAYS TOO.

DROUGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, IT KILLS TREES OUTRIGHT.

IT ALSO WEAKENS A TREE'S DEFENSE AGAINST PESTS LIKE  BARK BEETLES.

>> Fromby: WHEN I AM WALKING  OUT IN THE FOREST I AM NOT LOOKING FOR HEALTHY  TREES.

I AM LOOKING FOR ANY KIND OF  TINGE OF SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT TREE AND GENERALLY  IF IT IS A BARK BEETLE, WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS THE WHOLE CANOPY  KIND OF CHANGED TO A STRAW COLOR.

EVENTUALLY IT TURNS A RED RUST COLOR IF IT HAS BEEN DEAD FOR  A COUPLE OF YEARS.

>> Laura: EVERY YEAR THE STATE  DOES AERIAL SURVEYS.

THE 2020 SURVEY SHOWED A 9% INCREASE IN INSECT AND DROUGHT  STRESS FROM THE YEAR BEFORE.

>> Fromby: THERE IS A COUPLE  SIGNS THAT I LOOK FOR.

WHETHER THAT IS WOODPECKERS  PECKING AT THE BARK, SOME OTHER INDICATORS ARE THE PITCH  TUBES THAT HAVE DRIED AND THEN YOU CAN SEE EXIT HOLES.

IF THE TREE HAS BEEN ATTACKED FOR SO LONG THOSE EGGS WILL  REACH ADULTHOOD AND THEN BORE THEIR WAY OF THE TREE AND YOU  WILL SEE THESE TINY ROUND EXIT HOLES.

>> Laura: OVER THE LAST DECADE, DROUGHT AND HOT  CONDITIONS HAVE CAUSED BARK BEETLES TO KILL MORE THAN 1.5  MILLION ACRES OF NEW MEXICO'S FORESTS.

DEFOLIATORS LIKE CATERPILLARS AND PINON NEEDLE SCALE, THEY  HAVE AFFECTED ALMOST FOUR MILLION ACERS IN THAT TIME.

STATE FORESTRY RELIES ON SCIENCE FOR SURVEYS,  TREATMENTS, UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHAT WILL  HAPPEN.

AND PART OF DEPUTY DIRECTOR  LINDSEY QUAM'S JOB IS MAKING SURE THAT NEW MEXICO'S 23  SOVEREIGN TRIBES ARE A PART OF CONVERSATIONS AROUND FOREST  HEALTH.

>> Quam: I THINK THE ADVANTAGE  THEY HAVE IS THAT THEY HOLD LAND THAT HAS BEEN HERE FOR  MILLENNIA.

THEY ARE ON THEIR ANCESTRAL  LANDS SO THEY ARE THE ORIGINAL STEWARDS OF THIS LAND.

THEY HAVE BEEN HERE MANAGING THIS LANDSCAPE, THEY HAVE SEEN  THE CHANGES, THEY KNOW THE CHANGES, THEY HAVE A LOT OF  TRADITIONAL ECOLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE THAT I THINK WE NEED  TO TAP INTO AND LISTEN TO HELP US WITH TODAY'S PROBLEMS  BECAUSE IN THEIR STORIES, IN THEIR CULTURE, THEY SPEAK OF  THIS.

IT IS UP TO US TO PUT THE  SCIENCE WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE.

>> Laura: TODAY CHAD BROWN IS  FOREST DEVELOPMENT AND RESTORATION MANAGEMENT FOR  SANTA CLARA PUEBLO.

HE STARTED WORKING IN SANTA  CLARA CANYON IN 2012, THE YEAR AFTER LOS CONCHAS WHEN CREWS  WERE DEALING WITH FLOODS AND ASH AND DEBRIS FLOW,  THEY HAD TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO REMOVE THE TREES DAMMING UP  THE CANYON.

>> Brown: IF WE HADN'T DONE  THAT, THEN IT WOULD HAVE CREATED LIKE LOG DAMS AND  STRUCTURES TO WHERE THE NEXT DEBRIS FALL COULD HAVE  IMPACTED THE HOMES DOWN AT THE BASE OF THE CANYON.

>> Laura: NOW HE WORKS ON PLANTING AND RESTORATION AND  SEES HOW EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED.

>> Brown: IT HAS BEEN SEVERAL YEARS SINCE OUR LAST FLOOD BUT  ALL THE TREES THAT HAVE BEEN WITHIN THIS SANTA CLARA CREEK  TRIBUTARY, THEY HAVE SEEN THE FIRE, THEY HAVE SEEN THE  FLOODS AND NOW THEY ARE GETTING IMPACTED WITH THE  INSECTS COMING IN BECAUSE OF THE STRESSES FROM ALL THOSE  PREVIOUS THINGS, AND YOU'RE GETTING COMPLEX LAYERS OF  THINGS THAT ARE IMPACTING THESE TREES AND WE SEE A LOT  MORE MORTALITY.

>> Laura: THIS LANDSCAPE HERE  IN SANTA CLARA CANYON, IT HAS BEEN THE PEOPLES' HOMELAND FOR  MILLENNIA.

>> Brown: THE GOVERNOR TALKED  A LOT ABOUT THE FOREST AND CANYON BEING A SANCTUARY, THE  GROCERY STORE, OUR PHARMACY AND THAT REFLECTED BACK IN THE  CULTURE AND STORIES AND SONGS.

IF YOU TALK TO ANYONE IN THE  COMMUNITY THEY ALL HAVE A STORY ABOUT BEING IN THE  CANYON.

EVERYONE HAS A FAVORITE PLACE  IN THE CANYON.

THERE IS THAT LONG HISTORY OF  PEOPLE BEING HERE.

>> Laura: THIS LANDSCAPE HAS  TAKEN CARE OF THEM.

AND THE PEOPLE OF SANTA CLARA  WILL CONTINUE TAKING CARE OF THIS LANDSCAPE NO MATTER WHAT  CHANGES ARE COMING.

>> Gene: ON OUR LAND WE TALK  ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS BUT THERE IS ALSO A  CRITICAL CONVERSATION AROUND LABOR.

SPECIFICALLY THE WORKFORCE THAT FIGHTS THESE FIRES.

WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE UNDER IMMENSE PRESSURE TAKING  ON LARGER FIRES THROUGHOUT A LONGER AND LONGER SEASON.

THAT HAS TAKEN A TOLL ON THESE  INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

LAURA PASKUS SAT DOWN WITH A GROUP OF WORKERS LATE LAST  YEAR TO SEE WHAT CONCERNS THEY HAVE AND HOW BEST TO ADDRESS  THEM.

>> Laura: MARCUS, JONATHAN,  KELLY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

CAN WE START WITH YOU MARCUS.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT LIFE IS LIKE FOR A  WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER?

>> Cornwell: SURE.

I WOULD SAY, FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A VERY SORT OF SATISFYING  AND FULFILLING CAREER.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DO IT  LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE, LIKE TO HELP THEIR NEIGHBORS.

IT IS A PUBLIC SERVICE THAT I THINK A LOT OF US STILL ARE  SATISFIED IN DOING IT AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THE REALITIES WE ARE STARTING TO FACE NOW WITH POTENTIAL  CLIMATE CHANGE, I WOULD SAY, INCREASED FIRE SEASONS, MORE  COMPLEX, LONGER DURATION, WE ARE REALLY STARTING TO GO SEE,  I WOULD SAY, FIREFIGHTERS IN A CRISIS MODE.

AND THIS CRISIS MODE IS DUE TO ATTRITION.

WE HAVE LESS FIREFIGHTERS ON THE GROUND AT FEDERAL LEVELS  BECAUSE THE PAY AND BENEFITS ARE NOT ADEQUATE.

FOLKS ARE ASKED TO BASICALLY HAVE THESE YEAR-ROUND FIRE  SEASONS WHERE WE ARE COMMITTED TO GO HELP ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO, I WOULD SAY WE ARE REALLY KIND OF APPROACHING A TRAIN  WRECK AND A SERIOUS ISSUE WHERE FIREFIGHTERS ARE TIRED,  KIND OF CHALLENGED MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY AND IT IS  REALLY STARTING TO ENTER A CRISIS MODE, I WOULD SAY.

>> Laura: RECENTLY I SAW AN AD FOR WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS THAT  SAID THE JOB PAID $15 AN HOUR.

I UNDERSTAND THAT IS A LITTLE  BIT OF A BUMP A BIDEN ERA BUMP, BUT, ONE, IS THAT ENOUGH  TO LIVE ON AND, TWO, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THESE ARE  CONSIDERED SEASONAL JOBS.

>> Cornwell: THAT $15 AN HOUR  IS ROUGHLY FOR ENTRY LEVEL JOBS WHICH, AS YOU SAID, JUST  RECENTLY BUMPED UP.

BEFORE THAT IT WAS ANYWHERE FROM 13 TO 14 AN HOUR  DEPENDING WHERE YOU WERE AT IN THE COUNTRY.

THESE ARE ALL TEMPORARY 1039 POSITIONS IS WHAT THEY ARE  CONSIDERED.

WHICH HAVE ZERO BENEFITS  EXCEPT FOR MEDICAL CARE AND THE MEDICAL CARE THEY HAVE TO  PAY FOR.

IT GETS SUBSIDIZED BY THE  FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DURING THEIR EMPLOYMENT, BUT AS SOON  AS THEY ARE LAID OFF AFTER SIX MONTHS, THEY HAVE TO PAY THE  FULL PRICE.

SO NO RETIREMENT, NO  OPPORTUNITY TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANY KIND OF 401K.

BASICALLY ZERO BENEFITS.

WHEN THE FIRE SEASON IS OVER  AND THIS IS THE BULK OF OUR FEDERAL FIREFIGHTERS, REALLY,  THESE TEMPORARY EMPLOYEES.

THEY ARE THE ONES THAT MAKE UP  3/4 OF OUR HOT SHOTS.

THEY ARE THE ONES THAT MAKE UP  3/4 OF OUR HELITAC AND SMOKE JUMPERS.

AS SOON AS THE SEASON IS OVER,  THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACCESS MENTAL HEALTHCARE BENEFITS TO  REACH OUT FOR ANY KIND OF LONG-TERM PHYSICAL ISSUES THEY  ARE HAVING, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY ARE LAID OFF AND IF THEY  ARE FIRE FAMILY IS NOT THERE TO SUPPORT THEM, THEY HAVE NO  BENEFITS.

>> Laura: KELLY MARTIN, YOU  WORKED AS A WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOR 35 YEARS FOR  THE FOREST SERVICE AND FOR THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS  SORT OF LONG-TERM IMMERSION IN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS WHICH IS  DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE SEE SORT OF IN MUNICIPAL  FIREFIGHTERS OR EVEN POLICE OFFICERS.

WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE DEALING WITH SOMETHING VERY  DIFFERENT.

>> Martin: CORRECT.

THE IMMERSION THAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS WAY COMPLETELY  DIFFERENT THAN WHEN I STARTED 35 YEARS AGO.

I MIGHT HAVE GAINED MAYBE 400 HOURS OF OVERTIME DURING A  SUMMER SEASON AND NOW WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE REGULARLY  WORKING 1000, 1500 AND I THINK I HAVE EVEN HEARD THERE IS  PEOPLE ALMOST WORKING LIKE 2,000 HOURS OF OVERTIME A  YEAR.

SO, THIS CONSTANT IMMERSION IN  AN EMERGENCY MODE IS REALLY HAVING A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON  PEOPLES' MENTAL HEALTH AND WELLBEING.

TO SAY NOTHING OF THEIR PHYSICAL WELLBEING AS WELL.

WHEN THEY ARE EXPOSED TO TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF SMOKE,  LOTS OF RISKS.

>> Laura: EARLIER THIS YEAR  FIREFIGHTER TIM HART WAS KILLED DUE TO INJURIES HE  SUSTAINED ON A FIRE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

AFTER HIS DEATH, I REMEMBER SEEING A GO-FUND-ME CAMPAIGN  TO HELP HIS FAMILY DEALING WITH THE EXPENSES DUE TO HIS  HOSPITALIZATION.

AND I JUST REMEMBER THINKING  HE WAS A FEDERAL EMPLOYEE WORKING ON A FEDERAL FIRE.

WHAT KINDS OF -- HOW ARE FIREFIGHTERS TAKEN CARE OF  WHEN THEY SUSTAIN INJURIES OR UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENTS LIKE  THIS?

>> Cornwell: THAT IS KIND OF  THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT  WAS STARTED ROUGHLY 20 YEARS AGO CALLED WILDLAND  FIREFIGHTER FOUNDATION AND REALLY THAT ORGANIZATION WAS  THE CATALYST AND IT IS ALL CHARITY DONATIONS FROM  BASICALLY WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS SUPPORTING EACH  OTHER.

I WOULD SAY RECENTLY LAND  MANAGEMENT AGENCIES HAVE STARTED TO DO A BETTER JOB.

I WOULD GIVE CREDIT THERE BUT I WOULD SAY STARTING TO.

WE ARE SEEING WHERE THEY ARE NOT BEING ABLE TO COVER, YOU  KNOW, THESE GO-FUND-ME AND WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER  FOUNDATION COVER TIM'S FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL DOWN, BE  ABLE TO COVER MORTGAGE AND BILLS WHEN HE IS IN A TOUGH  POSITION IN A HOSPITAL, ANY OF THE FIREFIGHTERS, TO BE ABLE  TO HELP THE FAMILY MAKE IT THROUGH.

THESE FAMILIES THAT WE HAVE, BASICALLY DEPEND ON US BEING  FIREFIGHTERS AND US GOING AND WORKING AND BEING AWAY FROM  HOME FOR SIX MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.

AS SOON AS THAT MONEY IS GONE, THERE IS NO BASE, THERE IS NO  HELP FOR THE FAMILIES.

>> Laura: JONATHAN, YOU WERE A  WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOR OVER A DECADE.

I AM WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME  OF THE PRIVATE STRUGGLES THAT WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE  GOING THROUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE IN THE PUBLIC JUST HAVE NO  IDEA THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

>> Golden: YEAH, THANKS AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE  HERE.

PRIVATE STRUGGLES THAT I WENT  THROUGH AND I KNOW MY FRIENDS HAVE GONE THROUGH ARE JUST THE  ISOLATION THAT YOU FEEL AND THE SEPARATION YOU HAVE FROM  YOUR FRIENDS FROM YOUR FAMILIES BACK HOME, THE EVENTS  THAT YOU MISS OUT ON, BIRTHDAYS, WEDDINGS,  GRADUATIONS.

I EVEN KNOW OF HUSBANDS AND  PARTNERS THAT I WAS ON FIRE WITH WHILE THEIR WIFE  DELIVERED THEIR CHILDREN.

YOU MISS OUT ON THESE  SIGNIFICANT MOMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TIME TO  LAY DOWN AT NIGHT AND TRY TO GET SOME SLEEP, YOU KNOW, YOU  THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND IT REALLY BEGINS TO WEIGH ON  YOU, WHAT AM I MISSING OUT ON?

WHAT AM I DOING HERE?

WHEN THAT GOES ON, YOU KNOW, IT BECOMES A REAL STRUGGLE AND  SOMETIMES WE ARE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY BURY OR SUPPRESS  THOSE MEMORIES BUT IT COMES OUT IN THE WINTERTIME.

PEOPLE TURN TO ALCOHOL OR DRUGS.

WE LOST PARTNERS AND FRIENDS TO SUICIDE FROM IT ALL.

SO, IT IS A REAL PROBLEM.

>> Laura: THE PUBLIC, WE VERY  MUCH HAVE THIS PERCEPTION OF WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS WHEN OUR  COMMUNITIES ARE AT RISK, PEOPLE GO OUT THERE WITH SIGNS  AND WANT TO BAKE COOKIES AND DROP OFF WATER AND ARE SO  GRATEFUL WHEN YOU ALL ARRIVE.

BUT IT REALLY FEELS TO ME THAT  THERE IS THIS DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT WE THE PUBLIC  THINK YOU ALL ARE GOING THROUGH AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY  HAPPENING.

AND I AM CURIOUS HOW ARE YOU  SUPPORTED BY THESE FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT WE ALL PAY TAXES  TO AND ARE IMAGINING THAT YOU'RE BEING SUPPORTED.

IS THERE SUPPORT FOR THINGS LIKE DEPRESSION OR PTSD OR  ANXIETY OR HELPING ADDRESS THIS WORK/LIFE BALANCE THAT  SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM.

>> Cornwell: I WOULD SAY THOSE  ARE CATCH WORDS THAT AGENCY LEADERSHIP HAS THROWN OUT,  WORK/LIFE BALANCE, BUT THE REALITY, LAURA, IS THAT THESE  PROGRAMS ARE ANEMIC AT BEST.

SO, I WOULD BE REMISS TO SAY  THERE IS NO HELP.

WE DO HAVE HELP NETWORKS BUT I  MYSELF HAVE TRIED TO LOOK INTO THEM, LIKE, FOR ME AS A FIRST  RESPONDER, TO SEEK HELP ON A PARTICULAR KIND OF ISSUE,  LIKE, THERE IS NO COUNSELORS IN MY AREA THAT SPECIALIZE IN  THAT THAT ARE WITHIN THAT PROGRAM.

THAT IS THE THING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FACED WITH.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH HELP.

AND IT IS DIFFICULT TO GO THROUGH THE PROGRAM AND REALLY  YOU ONLY GET LIKE FIVE TO SEVEN VISITS AND THEN IT IS ON  YOU.

I WOULD SAY IT IS VERY POOR.

IT THINK IT IS A KNOWN ISSUE AND FOLKS ARE WORKING ON IT  BUT AT A REALLY SLOW RATE TO MAKE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE, I  WOULD SAY.

WE NEED MORE MONEY.

WE NEED BETTER PROGRAMS AND WE NEED MORE SUPPORT.

>> Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, ALL THREE OF YOU, SO MUCH FOR THIS  CONVERSATION.

I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH AND I  REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR ENERGY ON THIS TOPIC.

>> Cornwell: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US LAURA.

THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS IMPORTANT TO NEW MEXICO AND  IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND  INTEREST.

>> Gene: AFTER THAT  CONVERSATION LATE LAST YEAR, ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA  PASKUS WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT CHANGES THE BIDEN  ADMINISTRATION AND CONGRESS WERE MAKING AND SEE WHAT THE  OUTLOOK FOR WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS IN NEW MEXICO  LOOKED LIKE.

WHAT SHE DISCOVERED WAS NOT  REASSURING.

>> Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS  THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT LAST YEAR RIGHT ABOUT THE TIME WE DID  THAT INTERVIEW, THE FOREST SERVICE HAD JUST RAISED PAY, I  THINK, TO $15 AN HOUR WHICH REALLY SEEMS REALLY LOW GIVEN  THE RISKS THAT PEOPLE FACE, BUT I AM CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE A  SENSE OF WHAT STAFFING LOOKS LIKE FOR THE COMING FIRE  SEASON OR IF WE KNOW THAT YET.

>> Golden: I THINK THE EARLY  INDICATIONS ARE THAT WE ARE STILL COMING UP WOEFULLY SHORT  IN RECRUITING TALENT TO COME AND DO THIS JOB.

IT IS A HARD JOB.

YET THE ADMINISTRATION  IMPLEMENTED A MINIMUM WAGE OF $15 AN HOUR FOR WILDLAND  FIREFIGHTERS AND THEN THE BUDGETING INFRASTRUCTURE ACT  WAS PASSED WHICH SOUGHT TO INCREASE SALARIES BY EITHER  20,000 OR 50% WHICHEVER WAS LESS FOR THE REMAINING AMOUNT  OF THE WORKFORCE, I THINK, UP TO THE GS9 LEVEL AND THAT WAS  SUPPOSED TO BE IMPLEMENTED ON OCTOBER 1.

TO MY BEST KNOWLEDGE SPEAKING WITH FRIENDS ACROSS THE  COUNTRY THAT ARE STILL WORKING FOR THE FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT  ARE UNDER GS9, THEY STILL HAVEN'T RECEIVED THAT MONEY.

AND THAT IS REALLY WEIGHING ON THEM AND THAT IS CONTRIBUTING  FOR PEOPLE TO DECIDE TO JUST WALK AWAY ALTOGETHER, RIGHT.

THERE IS OTHER AGENCIES OR ENTITIES THEY CAN WORK FOR  WHERE THEY ARE VALUED AND I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE NOT  VALUED.

EVERYBODY THAT I EVER WORKED  FOR, EITHER THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR AGENCY OR FOREST  SERVICE HAS BEEN OPENLY APPRECIATIVE FOR THE WORK WE  HAVE DONE BUT SOMETIMES THANKS DOESN'T FILL UP THE BANK  ACCOUNT AND PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE, PAY FOR HEALTHCARE,  RAISE A FAMILY, ET CETERA.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT HAD  THOSE RAISES COME WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE COME, WE MIGHT BE  SEEING A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT STORY BUT RIGHT NOW  IT IS LOOKING PRETTY BLEAK FOR RETENTION AND RECRUITMENT IN A  LOT OF THE AREAS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> Laura: WHAT DOES IT POTENTIALLY MEAN FOR  COMMUNITIES IN THE WEST IF THERE ISN'T THE FEDERAL  WORKFORCE THAT IS REQUIRED?

>> Golden: YOU'RE STILL GOING  TO HAVE A LOCAL OR STATE JURISDICTION SHOW UP.

YOU'LL PROBABLY STILL HAVE A FEDERAL COMPONENT.

IT JUST MEANS RESPONSE TIMES ARE GOING TO LAG, REALLY, AND  TRULY.

THAT IS KIND OF THE DIFFERENCE  MAKER, RIGHT?

YOU'RE GOING -- SOMEBODY IS  GOING TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL 911.

THEY ARE GOING TO WONDER WHERE THESE RESOURCES ARE AND THAT  IS JUST KIND OF IN MY MIND, I FEEL LIKE THAT IS A LITTLE BIT  UNACCEPTABLE.

WE ARE EXPECTING AND  ACCUSTOMED TO EMERGENCY SERVICES SHOWING UP PROMPTLY  AND IF THEY ARE IN PROXIMITY THEY WILL BUT IF WE CONTINUE  TO HAVE A RETENTION ISSUE AND A RECRUITMENT ISSUE, IT IS  REALLY GOING TO LIMIT OUR NATIONAL CAPACITY TO ADDRESS  WHAT IS TURNING TO BE A GROWING CRISIS NOT JUST IN THE  WEST.

>> Laura: THANK YOU SO MUCH  FOR YOUR CONTINUED WORK AND FOR TALKING TO ME ABOUT THESE  IMPORTANT ISSUES.

>> Golden: THANK YOU, I  APPRECIATE IT.

>> Gene: THIS YEAR SO FAR,  FIREFIGHTERS HAVE SHOWN UP TO EVERY FIRE ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

BUT THIS CAN'T BE ALL ON THEM.

IF YOU LIVE IN A WILDFIRE  PRONE AREA, THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO DO TO PROTECT  YOURSELF, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR PROPERTY AND YOUR NEIGHBORS.

OUR CREW VISITED WITH TOM SWETNAM OUTSIDE JEMEZ SPRINGS  TO LEARN EXACTLY WHAT PRECAUTIONS PEOPLE SHOULD BE  TAKING.

>> Laura:   MANY PEOPLE LIVING IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS HAVE  HOMES TUCKED INTO THE FORESTS.

THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH  NATURE ARE INTIMATE AND SOMETIMES TRICKY.

A FEW YEARS AGO TOM SWETNAM MOVED BACK TO THE JEMEZ WHERE  HE GREW UP.

>> Swetnam: MY FATHER WAS A  FOREST RANGER SO WE LIVED HERE IN THE 1960'S AND THIS HAS  ALWAYS BEEN HOME.

NEW MEXICO HAS ALWAYS BEEN  HOME SO I AM COMING HOME.

>> Laura: SWETNAM IS A TREE  RING EXPERT AND PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF  ARIZONA.

HE STUDIES DROUGHT AND PAST  FIRES IN TREE RING RECORDS AND SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WELL HOW  FIRES IN THE SOUTHWEST ARE BECOMING BIGGER AND HOTTER.

>> Swetnam: WHEN I TOLD SOME FOLKS I WAS MOVING TO JEMEZ  SPRINGS AND MOVING UP INTO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY SAID  YOU ARE MOVING WHERE?

RIGHT UP INTO THE FOREST AND  RIGHT INTO THE SO-CALLED URBAN SPACE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A  PRETTY DENSE AND DANGEROUS FOREST.

I THINK PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED, YOU KNOW, THAT ME, I HAVE BEEN  PREACHING ABOUT FIRE PROBLEMS AND HOUSES AND FORESTS AS A  PROBLEM THAT I WOULD MOVE TO A PLACE LIKE THAT.

ALL OVER THE JEMEZ THERE IS PROBABLY MORE THAN 1000 HOMES  BUILT WITHIN FORESTS LIKE THIS, PONDEROSA PINE THAT ARE  OVERGROWN WITH TOO MANY FUELS.

AND AS WE COME INTO THE  DROUGHT SEASON THE RISK FOR FIRE IS JUST GETTING GREATER  AND GREATER.

>> Laura: DECADES OF FIRE  SUPPRESSION ON TOP OF DROUGHT AND WARMER CLIMATES HAVE  CREATED CONDITIONS THAT MAKE FIRES BURN FASTER AND HOTTER  THAN IN PAST CENTURIES.

THINNING FORESTS CAN HELP REDUCE THAT RISK AND PEOPLE  CAN ALSO PREPARE THEIR HOMES.

>> Swetman: A FIRE WISE HOME  MEANS THAT IT IS LESS LIKELY TO CATCH ON FIRE AS A FIRE  COMES AND APPROACHES IT AND PASSES BY.

SO, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS KEEP THE FIRE FROM STARTING  ON ANY PART OF THE STRUCTURE, ESPECIALLY WOODEN PARTS OF THE  STRUCTURE, ANY EXPOSED WOOD.

SO YOU MOVE THE FUELS AWAY  FROM THE HOUSE AND THE FARTHER AWAY THE BETTER.

30 FEET TO 50 FEET IS SORT OF A MINIMUM.

YOU WANT TO GET YOUR FIREWOOD AWAY FROM THE HOUSE.

YOU WANT TO GET TREES AWAY FROM THE HOUSE.

AND YOU WANT TO HAVE CLEARED SPACE AROUND THE HOUSE.

IN ADDITION TO ALL THE FUELS THAT IS AROUND TYPICALLY  HOUSES UP HERE, YOU SEE THESE OUTDOOR PROPANE TANKS AND  THOSE ARE A BIG RISK BECAUSE IF FIRE GETS UNDER THOSE AND  STARTS HEATING THEM UP, THEY WILL POP OFF A SAFETY VALVE  AND START SHOOTING FLAMES OUT OF THE TOP OF THEM.

IF THAT SAFETY VALVE DOESN'T WORK LIKE IT IS SUPPOSED TO,  IT WILL BLOW UP AND GO OFF LIKE A BOMB.

>> Laura: SWETNAM SAYS HE STILL HAS WORK TO DO AROUND  HIS OWN PROPERTY TO MAKE SURE HE IS READY FOR WHAT MIGHT BE  AN EARLY FIRE SEASON.

HE IS GOING TO REMOVE OLD WOOD  NEAR THE HOUSE, BURY THAT PROPANE TANK AND MAYBE CUT  MORE TREES.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO THINK  AHEAD, NOT JUST FOR YOUR OWN HOME BUT FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR  NEIGHBORS AND THE FIREFIGHTERS WHO COME IN WHEN EVERYONE ELSE  IS EVACUATING.

>> Swetman: FIREFIGHTERS HAVE  LOST THEIR LIVES TRYING TO SAVE HOMES BUT IF YOU HAVE  TREATED AROUND YOUR HOME AND REMOVED THE FUELS AROUND YOUR  HOME, IT IS MUCH MORE DEFENSIBLE SO FIREFIGHTERS ARE  MORE LIKELY TO COME IN AND TRY TO SAVE YOUR HOMING.

IT WILL BE A SAFER PLACE FOR THEM TO BE WHILE THEY ARE  TRYING TO PUT THE FIRE OUT.

LIKEWISE, FOR YOUR NEIGHBORS,  YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T TREAT YOUR PROPERTY BUT YOUR  NEIGHBOR DOES, YOUR NEIGHBOR IS STILL AT GREAT RISK BECAUSE  YOUR HOUSE MAY BURN AND CAUSE EMBERS AND HEAT AND FLAMES TO  COME OVER ON TO THEIR HOUSE.

SO, WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER  WITH THE FIREFIGHTERS IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT IS MORE ABOUT DOING THIS NOT JUST FOR YOURSELF FOR BUT  EVERYONE.

>> Laura:   THIS YEAR'S DRY CONDITIONS ARE SCARY  ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE LIVING WITHIN THE FOREST.

SWETNAM SAYS PEOPLE CAN PROTECT THEIR HOMES AND THEIR  COMMUNITIES, KEEP TRACK OF WEATHER CONDITIONS, KEEP IN  TOUCH WITH NEIGHBORS AND OFFICIALS AND KNOW WHEN IT IS  TIME TO LEAVE.

EYTAN, THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

SO, IN THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT WE HEARD FROM TOM SWETNAM WHO  DESCRIBED SOME WAYS THAT PEOPLE CAN PROTECT THEIR HOMES  FROM WILDFIRES.

IS THERE HELP FOR THIS SORT OF  WORK FOR PEOPLE TO BE GETTING READY FOR WILDFIRES?

>> Krasilovsky: YES, THERE IS QUITE A FEW RESOURCES IN NEW  MEXICO TO HELP RESIDENTS, HOMEOWNERS, LANDOWNERS AND A  FEW REALLY GOOD RESOURCES.

SO, NEW MEXICO, FORESTRY  DIVISION, ENERGY, MINERALS AND NATURAL RESOURCE DEPARTMENT,  ENMRD, THEY HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES ON THEIR WEBSITE AND  THEIR STAFF AT THEIR DISTRICT OFFICES OFTEN TALK TO  RESIDENTS ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO.

ANOTHER GREAT RESOURCE IS YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT.

MANY NEW MEXICANS LIVE IN RURAL AREAS AND YOUR VOLUNTEER  FIRE DEPARTMENT IS A GREAT RESOURCE.

THEY ARE OFTEN THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE THE FIRST  RESPONDERS IF THERE IS A CALL.

AND, SO, THEY ARE GREAT TO TALK TO.

ANOTHER GOOD RESOURCE IS A WEBSITE CALLED FIRE ADAPTIVE  NEW MEXICO LEARNING NETWORK OR FACNM.ORG.

THERE IS A LOT OF RESOURCES ON THERE AND EVEN SOME WORKBOOKS  THAT A RESIDENT CAN TAKE THE WORKBOOK AND WALK AROUND THEIR  RESIDENCE AND SCORE THEMSELVES AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE SOME  OF THE THINGS THEY CAN DO.

AND OFTEN A LOT OF THESE  APPROACHES START FROM THE STRUCTURE AND WORK THEIR WAY  OUT.

>> Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS WE  HEARD FROM SOME FOLKS IS THAT THEY DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT THE  MCBRIDE EVACUATION ORDERS UNTIL LIKE SOMEBODY HAD  CONTACTED THEM BECAUSE THEY SAW IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

DO YOU HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR HOW PEOPLE CAN STAY  INFORMED DURING FIRE SEASON OR DURING A FIRE?

>> Krasilovsky: THE COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY WHEN AN INCIDENT IS  FIRST OCCURRING AND EVOLVING, IS REALLY TRICKY.

TALKING TO YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT AGAIN CAN HELP YOU  FIND OUT IF THERE IS A LIST OR A SYSTEM THAT THE MUNICIPALITY  OR THE COUNTY USES.

I KNOW WHERE I LIVE THERE IS  AN ALERT SYSTEM AND I GET ALERT EMAILS ABOUT ALL SORTS  OF INCIDENTS NOT JUST WILDFIRE BUT FOR RED FLAG DAYS, WHICH  RED FLAG DAY INDICATES THAT IF A FIRE STARTS IT WILL SPREAD  RAPIDLY.

SO, CONNECTING WITH YOUR LOCAL  RESPONDERS IS A GREAT FIRST STEP.

I THINK IT IS A LOT OF LEARNING.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY EVALUATING,  ADAPTING AND TRYING THINGS AND HAVE A HUMBLE APPROACH TO  THIS.

>> Laura:   THE FIRST EARTH DAY IN THE UNITED STATES WAS  APRIL 22, 1970.

DURING THAT TIME, CONGRESS WAS  PASSING BIPARTISAN LAWS, LAWS RECKONING WITH DECADES OF  POLLUTION.

THESE ARE LAWS LIKE THE CLEAN  AIR AND WATER ACTS, NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ACT,  ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT AND SAFE DRINKING WATER ACT.

TODAY LOOKING AROUND THE UNITED STATES AND LOOKING  AROUND NEW MEXICO WE SEE HOW THOSE LAWS ENACTED 50 YEARS  AGO HAVE MATTERED TO EACH OF US.

AS A SOCIETY WE SAW WHAT POLLUTION WAS DOING TO US, TO  THE ENVIRONMENT, TO FUTURE GENERATIONS AND WE KNEW WE HAD  TO DO SOMETHING.

OF COURSE, A LOT OF THINGS  HAVE CHANGED SINCE THE 1970'S, SOME FOR THE BETTER.

AND SOME, WELL, HERE IN NEW MEXICO ON AVERAGE IT IS ABOUT  THREE DEGREES WARMER THAN IT WAS.

OUR MOUNTAIN SNOW PACKS HAVE CHANGED.

OUR RIVERS FLOW WITH LESS WATER THAN THEY DID DECADES  AGO.

AND MANY OF OUR RESERVOIRS  CONTINUE TO BE FRIGHTENINGLY LOW YEAR AFTER YEAR.

NOT ONLY DO FIRES BURN BIGGER, FIRE SEASON IS LONGER.

AND OUR FORESTS OFTEN DON'T RECOVER AFTERWARDS.

JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL ON  CLIMATE CHANGE RELEASED YET ANOTHER ASSESSMENT.

WE KNOW WHY THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

WE HAVE PUMPED AND PUMPED FOSSIL FUELS OUT OF THE GROUND  AND GREEN HOUSE GASES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

THIS HAS WARMED OUR PLANET.

IT HAS WARMED OUR SOILS, OUR  FORESTS, OUR FARMLANDS.

SCIENTISTS KEEP TELLING US WE NEED TO CUT GREEN HOUSE GAS  EMISSIONS IMMEDIATELY AND DRASTICALLY.

SCIENTISTS, ALONG WITH INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE  WITH DEEP TRADITIONAL AND ECOLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE, THEY ALL  KEEP TELLING US WE HAVE THE TOOLS TO CUT GREENHOUSE GAS  EMISSIONS TO MITIGATE THE WORST OF THE IMPACTS, TO ADAPT  TO THE CHANGES WE ALREADY SEE AND KNOW AND YET EVEN HERE IN  NEW MEXICO WHERE WE SEE THE CONSEQUENCES OF CLIMATE CHANGE  SO VERY CLEARLY, LAWMAKERS AND GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE NOT  TRULY RECKONING, NOT JUST FOR THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE,  BUT WITH OUR STATE'S ROLE IN CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE.

ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO, I INTERVIEWED RUSSELL TRAIN.

HE DIED IN 2012 BUT HE WAS THE NATION'S SECOND ADMINISTRATOR  OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY WHICH WAS  CREATED IN 1970 THE YEAR OF THAT FIRST EARTH DAY.

WHEN I TALKED TO HIM, HE WAS 84 YEARS OLD.

I ASKED HIM THEN IN 2004 IF HE THOUGHT CONGRESS COULD STILL  PASS LAWS LIKE THE CLEAN WATER ACT, THE SAFE DRINKING WATER  ACT?

HE SAID   THAT HE WASN'T SURE NOT BECAUSE ENVIRONMENTAL  ISSUES WEREN'T STILL IMPORTANT OR BECAUSE THE LAWS DIDN'T  WORK.

NO.

HE SAID THAT ONCE CONGRESS STARTED PASSING THOSE LAWS,  THE INDUSTRIES THEY THREATENED THAT WERE NOW BEING REGULATED  STARTED PAYING CLOSER ATTENTION TO POLITICS AND  STARTED SPENDING A LOT MORE MONEY.

TRAIN TOLD ME AT THE TIME THAT TEAM PLAYING WITH INDUSTRY  WASN'T NEW TO GOVERNMENT BUT HE HAD WATCHED IT CHANGE, HE  WATCHED HOW BUSINESS LOBBYISTS IN WASHINGTON D.C.

BECAME VERY  ORGANIZED WHEN IT CAME TO THE ENVIRONMENT AND WE KNOW THAT  IS EVEN MORE TRUE TODAY.

ACROSS THE U.S.

INCLUDING HERE  IN NEW MEXICO, HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WE SEE THE SIGNS OF  CLIMATE CHANGE ALL AROUND US.

EVERYDAY AND ALL THE TIME.

WE KNOW WHY THE RIVERS ARE DRYING,   WHY FARMERS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WATER, WHY THIS YEAR IN  APRIL OR FIRE SEASON IS ALREADY ABSOLUTE MADNESS.

AND WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHY THAT IS HAPPENING.

AND ABOUT HOW WE ARE ACCELERATING THOSE CHANGES.

BY CONTINUING TO DEVELOP FOSSIL FUELS IN THE STATE, BY  CONTINUING TO INVEST IN FOSSIL FUELS, BY NOT PIVOTING MORE  QUICKLY TOWARDS EFFICIENCY AND RENEWABLES.

IN NEW MEXICO, WE DO NOT SHY AWAY FROM HARD CONVERSATIONS.

ABOUT CULTURE, HISTORY, LAND.

WE NEED TO HAVE MORE OF THOSE  HARD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT LAND, ABOUT WATER AND ABOUT WHY OUR  LANDS ARE DRYING AND OUR WATER IS SHRINKING.

TO SEE THESE REALITIES ON THE GROUND LIKE WE DO ON OUR SHOW  ALL THE TIME, IT IS HARD.

IT IS HORRIBLE.

BUT IT IS HARDER TO SEE THAT THERE ARE PATHS FORWARD, PATHS  THAT WILL PROTECT FUTURE NEW MEXICANS AND TO KNOW WE ARE  DECIDING NOT TO TAKE THOSE PATHS.

52 YEARS AFTER THAT FIRST EARTH DAY, IT IS NOT TIME  CELEBRATE.

IT IS TIME TO GET TO WORK.

>> Gene: THANK YOU FOR THAT MESSAGE.

WE SHOULD ALL BE THINKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN BETTER  PREPARE OURSELVES AND ENVIRONMENT FOR THE CHANGES  COMING IN THE YEAR AHEAD.

BUT FOR FIRE MANAGEMENT  OFFICIALS, THOSE ADJUSTMENTS NEED TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE SEEN THE RISKS THAT COME WITH PRESCRIBED FIRES,  EVEN THIS EARLY IN THE YEAR, SO WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE TO  LIMIT DAMAGE LATER IN THE SUMMER?

>> Laura: WELCOME BACK.

SO, GIVEN ALL THAT WE KNOW  ABOUT WILDFIRES AND HOW FIRE SEASON IS CHANGING WHAT TOOLS  DO FEDERAL AGENCIES, STATE AGENCIES REALLY HAVE WHEN IT  COMES TO ADDRESSING OUR OVERLY DENSE FORESTS AND THESE  FORMING CONDITIONS.

>> Krasilovsky: MOST OF THE  PROCESSES INVOLVE REMOVING TREES AND BRINGING FIRE BACK  INTO THE ECOSYSTEM USUALLY IN A PRESCRIBED FIRE SITUATION  WHEN PEOPLE CHOOSE THE TIME PLACE AND WEATHER CONDITIONS.

SOMETIMES IT IS A FIRE THAT IS NATURALLY IGNITED FROM  LIGHTNING AND IT IS DECIDED TO BE MANAGED FOR RESOURCE  BENEFIT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FOREST.

MOST PROJECTS START WITH A PLACE AND IDEA AND THEN TREE  REMOVAL OF SOME SORT HAPPENS.

OFTENTIMES IT IS THE SMALLEST  AND SOMETIMES MEDIUM-SIZED TREES.

IF THE WOOD CAN GET USED, GREAT.

OFTENTIMES THESE PLACES ARE ON REALLY STEEP SLOPES AND FAR  AWAY FROM ROADS SO WOOD UTILIZATION CAN'T ALWAYS  HAPPEN BUT EVEN WHEN THE WOOD IS USED, TOPS AND LIMBS GET,  YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T GET REMOVED, THEY ARE LAG ON THE  GROUND.

AND, THERE IS A FEW DIFFERENT  OPTIONS FROM THERE.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE WILL PILE  THEM AND YOU'LL SEE PILES ON A HILLSIDE AND THOSE PILES WILL  GET BURNED IN THE WINTER.

SOMETIMES THEY ARE SPREAD  AROUND AND THEN A PRESCRIBED FIRE IS PLANNED AFTERWARDS.

AND THAT FIRE RECYCLES THE NUTRIENTS AND REDUCES FIRE  HAZARD OF THE HILLSIDE.

>> Laura: EARLIER THIS YEAR,  WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF FIRE SEASON, WE WERE  HOPING TO GO OUT WITH YOUR ORGANIZATION TO DO -- TO WATCH  A PRESCRIBED FIRE OUT IN THE ZUNI MOUNTAINS AND THAT KIND  OF GOT RESCHEDULED AND NOW WE ARE LOOKING AT THE FALL.

AND NOW WE HAVE SEEN THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE.

IT WAS A PRESCRIBED FIRE THAT WENT OUT OF CONTROL.

WHAT DO WE DO WHEN PRESCRIBED FIRE DOESN'T WORK?

LIKE THAT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF GETTING FIRE BACK INTO  THE SYSTEM, AN IMPORTANT TOOL, LIKE, WHAT DO WE DO WHEN THAT  IS NOT WORKING?

>> Krasilovsky: IT IS TRICKY.

IN THE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE ABOUT THE BURN YOU WERE GOING TO  COME OUT TO, WE ARE WAITING AND POSTPONING BUT OUR PLAN  STILL IS TO PUT FIRE ON THE GROUND AND TO USE THAT TOOL.

SO, I THINK TIME, WAITING FOR THE RIGHT WINDOW, IS OFTEN ONE  APPROACH TO DEALING WITH AVOIDING UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT  LIKE THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE.

IN SOME PLACES, THEY HAVE  THESE MASTICATION MACHINES THAT DEAL WITH THE FUELS ON  THE GROUND BY TURNING THEM INTO SMALLER AND SMALLER FUELS  AND THEY KIND OF SHRED THE WOOD UP.

THAT IS ONE APPROACH.

ANOTHER ONE IS TO PUT THE  STICKS INTO PILES, BURN THEM AND DON'T COME BACK FOR A  PRESCRIBED BURN.

THAT IS ANOTHER OPTION.

OR  DON'T COME BACK FOR A BROADCAST PRESCRIBED BURN,  WHERE YOU JUST BURN THE PILES AND THEN YOU CALL THE PROJECT  DONE.

>> Laura: WE KNOW THAT FIRE IS  INEVITABLE IN WESTERN FORESTS AND AS A SOCIETY WE NEED TO  ACCEPT AND UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE  THAT.

SO, WHAT DO MAYBE WE NEED TO  CHANGE ABOUT US AND HOW WE USE FORESTS, RELATE TO FORESTS,  LIVE NEAR FORESTS?

>> Krasilovsky: YEAH.

WELL, THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION.

WE LIVE IN FORESTS, WE RECREATE IN FORESTS WE USE  FOREST FOR CEREMONIAL, SPIRITUAL PURPOSES.

THEY ARE A SOURCE FOR THE ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, HUNTING IS  A REALLY BIG PART OF NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY.

YEAH, UNDERSTANDING OUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE FOREST AND  THE FIRE THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I DON'T HAVE A GREAT ANSWER.

I THINK IT IS A LOT OF  LEARNING.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE  CONSTANTLY EVALUATING, ADAPTING AND TRYING THINGS   AND HAVE A HUMBLE APPROACH TO  THIS.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF  GREAT RESOURCE MANAGERS, GREAT FIRE MANAGERS IN NEW MEXICO,  GREAT RESEARCHERS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ANSWER IS NOT A  STRAIGHT LINE AND IT IS NOT SUPER CLEAR.

>> Gene: THESE ARE SERIOUS CHALLENGES, SCARY ONES AND  EXPENSIVE TOO.

BUT, IF WE PLAN AHEAD, LEARN  FROM HISTORY, COOPERATE WITH ONE ANOTHER, THERE ARE  CERTAINLY THINGS WE CAN DO TO PROTECT OUR COMMUNITIES, OUR  WATERSHEDS AND CONTINUE TO BUILD NEW RELATIONSHIPS WITH  OUR FORESTS.

WE END OUR SHOW WITH AN  INSPIRATIONAL OUR LAND EPISODE WHEN OUR CREW DISCOVERED HOW  THE CERRO NEGRO FOREST COUNCIL HELPS PROTECT THE CARSON  NATIONAL FOREST.

>> Laura: A FEW YEARS AGO,  J.R. LOGAN LOOKED OUT ACROSS HIS BACKYARD IN SAN CRISTOBAL  IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

IT WAS GETTING ON TOWARD FALL  WHEN HE AND OTHERS WHO RELY UPON WOOD TO HEAT THEIR HOME  DRIVE HOURS TO OTHER PARTS OF THE FOREST.

THEN THEY PAY FOR U.S. FOREST SERVICE PERMITS TO COLLECT  WOOD.

>> Logan: IT JUST MADE NO  SENSE TO ME, SITTING IN MY VALLEY -- SITTING IN MY VALLEY  THAT I WOULD HAVE TO GO SO FAR TO GET FIREWOOD WHEN LOOKING  LITERALLY OUT MY BACKDOOR THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL STAND OF  PONDEROSAS WHERE THE UNDERGROWTH HAS GROWN IN THICK  AND POSES A HUGE RISK TO THOSE TREES AND TO MY COMMUNITY AND  TO THE WATERSHED AND I THOUGHT, THERE JUST HAS TO BE  A WAY WHERE I CAN MAKE IT POSSIBLE OR WE CAN MAKE IT  POSSIBLE FOR ME AND MY NEIGHBORS TO BE ABLE TO CUT  THAT WOOD, WHICH IS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE TO US AS FIREWOOD AND  IS IN OUR OWN BACKYARDS AND AT THE SAME TIME MAKE OUR  COMMUNITY AND OUR WATERSHED SAFER.

>> Laura: LOGAN MET WITH ELDERS AND LEADERS IN HIS  COMMUNITY.

>> Arguello: ...

TRADITIONALLY WE ARE A COLLECTIVIST CULTURE  WHERE THE GROUP IS MORE  IMPORTANT THAN THE INDIVIDUAL.

>> Laura: THEY GOT TO TALKING  ABOUT HOW TO CREATE A FOREST COUNCIL.

AND STRUCTURE IT AS A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PROJECT  AND TALKED ABOUT ACEQUIAS, LAND GRANTS AND THE LONG  HISTORY OF PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY IN NORTHERN NEW  MEXICO.

>> Arguello: THE GOVERNMENT,  INSTEAD OF CREATING A NEW SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE, LET'S  USE THE OLD ANCIENT INSTITUTIONAL FORMS OF  ORGANIZATION THAT WE HAVE HAD HERE FOR CENTURIES, THREE, 400  YEARS, AND THAT IS THE DISTRIBUTION OF WATER HAS HAD  A VERY APPROPRIATE AND VERY SUCCESSFUL GOVERNANCE SYSTEM.

THE LAND GRANTS ALSO HAVE HAD A LONG HISTORY OF GOVERNANCE,  VERY DEMOCRATIC, VERY PARTICIPATORY.

>> Montoya: WHAT IS CALLED A PARCIANTES WHEN IT COMES TO A  DITCH IS A PERSON WHO HAS A PIECE OF LAND AND IS  IRRIGATING, SO THEY NEED A MAYORDOMO TO OVERSEE THAT.

>> Laura: THEY WORKED WITH THE CARSON NATIONAL FOREST, WROTE  A GRANT PROPOSAL, BASED BYLAWS ON ACEQUIAS AND LAND GRANTS  AND THEY CREATED THE CERRO NEGRO FOREST COUNCIL.

HERE THERE ARE ALMOST 300 ACRES OF PINON, JUNIPER  AND SAGE FOREST LAND BETWEEN THE VILLAGES OF SAN CRISTOBAL  AND VALDEZ THAT NEED TO BE TREATED, THINNED SO THE FOREST  IS HEALTHIER, SO IT IS CLOSER TO HOW IT WAS BEFORE THE U.S.  GOVERNMENT IMPLEMENTED FIRE SUPPRESSION POLICIES.

>> Logan: OUR PROJECT IN PARTICULAR IS DESIGNED TO  REMOVE FUELS THAT OTHERWISE WOULD REALLY RAMP UP AND SUPER  CHARGE FIRE BEHAVIOR WERE WE TO SEE A FIRE OCCUR IN THIS  AREA.

>> Laura: WHEN THE U.S.  GOVERNMENT STOPPED LETTING FORESTS BURN, THEY BECAME  OVERCROWDED WITH SMALLER TREES, ALL COMPETING FOR WATER  AND SUNLIGHT AND BECOMING ADDITIONAL FUEL FOR WILDFIRES.

FEEDING THEM ALONG WITH DROUGHT AND RISING  TEMPERATURES, TO BURN HOTTER AND BIGGER THAN IN THE PAST.

>> Logan: THIS ISN'T A RESTORATION PROJECT WHERE YOU  MIGHT SEE IN PONDEROSA PINE WHERE WE ARE TRULY RESTORING  AN ECOSYSTEM TO A PLACE THAT IT WAS A MILLENNIA AGO.

RATHER THIS IS RESTORATION FOR THE BENEFIT OF PEOPLE, BUT  ALSO THE BENEFIT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE SENSE WE  ARE PREVENTING WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE UNCHARACTERISTIC  FIRE ESPECIALLY AS WE SEE THE CLIMATE GETTING WARMER, HOTTER  AND DRYER OVER THE LONG HAUL.

>> Laura: THE FOREST SERVICE  AND COUNCIL DIVIDED THE FOREST HERE INTO ONE ACRE BLOCKS AND  ASSIGNED THEM TO A LENEROS OR WOOD CUTTERS.

TREES TO REMAIN ARE MARKED AND THE OTHERS ARE CUT.

THE MAYORDOMO OVERSEES THE WORK AND THE LENEROS CAN USE  THE WOOD AT HOME OR SELL IT AND THE COUNCIL PAYS THEM $300  AN ACRE FOR THEIR WORK.

THAT IS LESS THAN WHAT THE  FOREST SERVICE PAYS CONTRACTORS.

AND ALTHOUGH THE WORK CAN BE SLOWER, IT IS A MODEL FOR  OTHER PLACES TOO.

ALREADY, COUNCILS HAVE CROPPED  UP IN SOUTHERN TAOS COUNTY.

>> Cordova: MY ROLE IN THIS IS  I AM THE LENERO, THE GUY THAT CUTS IT AND BUCKS IT, TAKES IT  HOME, CHOPS IT UP AND I USE IT FOR HEATING MY HOME.

IT IS MY SOURCE OF ENERGY FOR HEATING BACK AT THE HOUSE.

BUT, YEAH, I HAVE BEEN ON THIS -- I HAVE ALREADY  ACCOMPLISHED THREE ONE ACRE BLOCKS AND I AM CURRENTLY  WORKING JUST ABOUT FINISHING UP MY FOURTH.

AND I HAVE GOT YET ANOTHER ONE THAT I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED THAT  I HAVE GOT TO GET STARTED ON AND TRY TO GET THAT DONE  BEFORE THE END OF THE WINTER.

HAVING TO DRIVE 15 MINUTES AS OPPOSED TO TWO HOURS TO GET A  GOOD LOAD OF THE BEST WOOD THAT I CAN SAY THERE IS TO  BURN, PINON, THIS IS AWESOME.

I AM REALLY GLAD THIS OPENED  UP BECAUSE I WAS GETTING KIND OF WORRIED ABOUT FINDING  PLACES TO GO GET WOOD.

>> Laura: FOR LOGAN AND  LENEROS LIKE CORDOVA, THEIR TIME IN THE FOREST ISN'T JUST  ABOUT CUTTING WOOD.

IT IS ABOUT CONNECTING WITH  THE PAST, SPENDING TIME WITH FAMILY.

>> Cordova: SOMETIMES I JUST COME OUT HERE AND SIT AROUND  AND WORK REALLY SLOW.

AND, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS LOOKING  FOR DEER, OF COURSE.

NOW THAT IT IS SO OPEN AFTER  THEY CLEANED THIS UP, YOU SEE MORE ABUNDANCE OF DEER THAN  WHAT WE USED TO IN THE PAST.

>> Laura: HISTORICALLY THE  RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE AND COMMUNITIES  IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN FRAUGHT, TO SAY THE  LEAST.

THE FEDERAL AGENCIES TOOK OVER  COMMON LANDS WHEN IT WAS FORMED IN THE EARLY 20TH  CENTURY PUSHING PEOPLE OFF GRAZING LAND AND HUNTING  GROUNDS, REQUIRING PERMITS FOR WOOD CUTTING AND PINON  GATHERING.

CLOSING ACCESS TO THE FOREST  PEOPLE HAD VISITED FOR GENERATIONS.

THIS COUNCIL IS A STEP TOWARD HEALING NOT JUST THE LAND BUT  COMMUNITIES.

>> Montoya: I THINK THE  SITUATION RIGHT NOW IS REALLY NICE IN THIS RESPECT THAT WE  ARE WORKING WITH THE FOREST SERVICE, FOREST SERVICE IS  COOPERATING WITH US.

WE ARE COOPERATING WITH THEM.

AND THINGS ARE GETTING DONE.

IN SOME CASES, NOT IN ALL  CASES, WHERE A FAMILY COMES OUT, YOU KNOW, MOM AND DAD AND  THEY TAKE KIDS WITH THEM AND THEY ARE ALL HELPING AND THEY  TAKE THEIR LITTLE BREAKS FOR THEIR LUNCH OR WHATEVER, WHICH  IS AMAZING.

IT IS LIKE NICE.

>> Laura: BEING A LENERO IS HARD WORK BUT THERE IS AN ART  TO IT, TOO.

AND JOY AT BEING HOME IN THE  FOREST.

>> Cordova: WELL, LET'S SAY  THIS.

THIS, IN A SENSE, IS A RANCHO,  RIGHT?

RANCHO DE LINEA DE PINON.

SO, WE SAY... (SINGING)  ALLA EN EL RANCHO GRANDE.

ALLA DONDE VIVIA.

QUE ALEGRE ME DECIA.

QUE ALEGRE ME DECIA.

THERE YOU GO.

FROM THERE ON IT COSTS A  DOLLAR.

>> Laura:   FOR OUR LAND AND NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS I'M LAURA  PASKUS.