>>JON: INDIANA'S ONGOING DEBATE OVER THE LEGALIZATION — OR AT LEAST DECRIMINALIZATION — OF MARIJUANA WOULD BE LARGELY UNRECOGNIZABLE TO HOOSIERS OF AN EARLIER GENERATION.

LONG GONE IS THE STEREOTYPICAL, TROPE-LADEN SHOWDOWN BETWEEN TIE-DYED HIPPIES AND CREW-CUT NIXONITES—- BETWEEN CHEECH & CHONG AND RIGHT & WRONG.

THESE DAYS, THE BATTLE LINES CUT ACROSS POLITICAL, DEMOGRAPHIC, AND ECONOMIC BOUNDARIES, AND THE ARGUMENTS FOCUS NOT SO MUCH ON MORALITY AS ON LICENSING REQUIREMENTS, REVENUE DISTRIBUTION MODELS, AND THE COMPLEXITIES OF DUAL FEDERALISM.

HI, I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND ON THIS WEEK'S SHOW, WE'LL VENTURE INTO THE POLICY WEEDS OF WEED.

DON'T GO AWAY.

INDIANA LAWMAKERS — FROM THE STATEHOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

♪♪ IN THIS YEAR'S SESSION OF THE IN THIS YEAR'S SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HOOSIER LAWMAKERS INTRODUCED NO FEWER THAN 13 BILLS SEEKING TO RELAX, OR AT LEAST STUDY RELAXING, INDIANA'S LONGSTANDING PROHIBITION AGAINST MARIJUANA, MAKING POT ONE OF THIS YEAR'S MOST POPULAR BILL SUBJECTS — RIGHT UP THERE WITH FIREARMS AND EDUCATION.

ALTHOUGH NONE OF THE MEASURES ADVANCED, THE DEBATE OVER LEGALIZATION — AND/OR DECRIMINALIZATION — RAGES ON BOTH HERE IN INDIANA AND IN WASHINGTON.

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE ARE...DEMOCRATIC SENATOR EDDIE MELTON OF GARY, THE SENATE'S ASSISTANT MINORITY LEADER REPUBLICAN SENATOR SUE GLICK OF LAGRANGE, THE SENATE'S ASSISTANT PRESIDENT PRO TEM JEFF STAKER, THE FOUNDER OF HOOSIER VETERANS FOR MEDICAL CANNABIS AND KEVIN SABET, A FORMER WHITE HOUSE DRUG POLICY ADVISOR WHO IS NOW HEAD OF THE ANTI-LEGALIZATION GROUP SMART APPROACHES TO MARIJUANA AND THE AUTHOR OF SEVERAL HIGH-PROFILE BOOKS ON THE TOPIC, INCLUDING “REEFER SANITY: SEVEN GREAT MYTHS ABOUT MARIJUANA.” THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

JEFF STAKER, LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU WERE A FORMER MARINE CORP ACTIVE DUTY SCOUT SNIPER, YOU WERE IN DESERT SHIELD, DESERT STORM.

AFTER THAT YOU WORKED FOR THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT AS A SECURITY OFFICER AND FIREFIGHTER.

HOW DO YOU GET FROM THAT POINT TO BECOMING THE FOUNDER OF HOOSIER VETERANS FOR CANNABIS BACK IN 2016?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

AGAIN, PEOPLE THAT KNOW MY STORY, STARTED IN 2016, THROUGH THE VA.

I WAS PRESCRIBED OPIATES FOR NEARLY TEN YEARS, AND I WAS FINDING MYSELF HAVING TO TAKE MORE TO DO WHAT A LITTLE DID AT THE VERY BEGINNING.

THAT'S WHERE I WAS RUNNING THE RISK OF ACCIDENTALLY OVERDOSING.

I TALKED TO MY VA DOCTOR AND WE GOT OFF THE OPIATES AND I INQUIRED WHAT HE THOUGHT ABOUT MEDICAL CANNABIS.

AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, IF HE COULD PRESCRIBE OR RECOMMEND IT, HE WOULD.

AND THAT'S WHAT GOT ME STARTED ON THIS VENTURE.

THEN I TOOK A STEP BACK.

AND I LOOKED AT THE VA WAS STARTING TO REDUCE AND RESTRICT HOW OPIATES WERE BEING PRESCRIBED.

WE'RE SEEING THE OVERDOSE AND SUICIDE RATE JUST GOING THROUGH THE WALL.

WHEN THEY DID THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, IT GOT EVEN WORSE.

VETERANS WERE BEING TURNED OFF THEIR MEDICATIONS.

THEY WERE EITHER DYING FROM THE PRESCRIPTIONS, THEY WERE DYING FROM BEING ABRUPTLY CUT OFF FROM THE SHOCK.

THEY WERE TURNING TO STREET DRUGS, I.E., HEROIN, OR COMING TO WIT'S END TAKING THEIR OWN LIVES.

I THOUGHT IT WAS WORTH FIGHTING FOR MY FELLOW VETERANS AND NOW FOR THE CITIZENS OF INDIANA.

>>JON SCHWANTES: SENATOR EDDIE MELTON, AT LEAST A RELAXATION OF EXISTING ON MARIJUANA, HALLMARK SUBJECT AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PUT IT.

AND YOUR PILL THAT YOU INTRODUCED, ONE OF THEM, TWO OF THEM ACTUALLY HAVE RUR YOUR NAME ON IT, NOT ONLY MEDICAL, BUT RECREATIONAL.

HOW MUCH DO STORIES LIKE JEFF STAKER'S SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT?

I MEAN, IS THAT THE KIND OF PERSON YOU HAD IN MIND WHEN YOU INTRODUCED THIS LEGISLATION.

>> WHAT IS YOUR ULTIMATE GOAL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I BELIEVE OUR -- WE'VE LISTENED AND HEARD FROM OVER 10 YEARS VETERANS COME TO THE STATEHOUSE AND EXPRESS THEIR DESIRE TO SEE CANNABIS BECOME LEGAL IN THE STATE OF INDIANA.

WE'VE HAD SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS SUCH AS MY FRIEND TO EXPRESS THEIR THOUGHTS ON HOW IT COULD BENEFIT INDIVIDUALS TO KIND OF COPE WITH THEIR MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT THEY'RE FACED.

OR MAYBE CAUSED BY BEING, SERVING THIS NATION.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT IN ADDITION TO THAT IS LOOKING AT THE DECRIMINALIZATION OF CANNABIS IN THE STATE OF INDIANA.

WE KNOW THAT A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF MINORITIES ARE ARRESTED, AND AS WE LOOK AT ACROSS THE NATION, AND OVER 30-PLUS STATES, MAYBE 38 STATES, HAVE SOME SHAPE OR FORM OF LEGALIZATION.

AND NOW YOU HAVE INDUSTRIES THAT ARE PROFITING AND MAKING LARGE PROFITS, AND STATES ARE BENEFITTING FROM THE LEGALIZATION.

BUT YET STILL WE HAVE INDIVIDUALS GETTING INCARCERATED AT ALARMING RATES.

SO THE LEGALIZATION FROM A GROWING PERSPECTIVE, AND A DISTRIBUTION PERSPECTIVE, BUT ALSO THE DECRIMINALIZATION AND EXPUNGEMENT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

>> YOUR BILL AS DRAFTED WOULD HAVE SAID ANYBODY CONVICTED, AND AGAIN NOT GOING TO ADVANCE THIS SESSION, ANYBODY CONVICTED BEFORE JULY OF 2022 WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PETITION FOR RESENTENCING.

SENATOR SUE GLICK, I KNOW YOU'VE SAID YOU HAVE MIXED EMOTIONS ON THIS SUBJECT.

AND YOU COME AT THIS NOT ONLY AS A LONG-TIME SENATOR, BUT ALSO FORMER COUNTY PROSECUTOR.

EXPLAIN MIXED EMOTIONS.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, AS JEFF HAS INDICATED, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE GOING, ACTUALLY GOING FROM THE HARD DRUGS, IF YOU WILL, THE OPIATES, AND SOME OF THE ABUSE THAT WE'VE SEEN, A LOT OF TIMES BECAUSE OF OVERMEDICATION, OVERPRESCRIPTION, WHO HAVE GONE DOWN OR USED MARIJUANA TO WEAN THEMSELVES OFF THE HARD MEDICATIONS.

WE SEE -- THERE'S STRONG PROPONENTS FOR THE LEGALIZATION IN THE AGE GROUP, THE 65 TO 75 AND OLDER GROUP SEEMS TO BE SOME OF THE STRONGER PROPONENTS FOR LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA.

WE HAVE SEEN DIFFERENT PEOPLE COME FORWARD AND EXPLAIN THE USE.

I KNOW THAT NOT TOO RECENTLY, BUT IN THE PAST FEW YEARS A NUMBER OF LIGHTERS WENT TO THE STATE AG AND RURAL LEADERS CONFERENCE IN DENVER, COLORADO, AND WE HAD THE ABILITY TO VISIT A MARIJUANA GROW FACILITY, AND ALSO A MANUFACTURING FACILITY.

SO WE HAVE NOT COMPLETELY SHUT OUR EYES, OR OUR MINDS TO THE POSSIBILITY OF -- OF LEGALIZING.

BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, THERE IS NOT OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OUT THERE THAT THIS IS THE END ALL BE ALL, THAT THIS IS THE SALVATION FOR ALL OF THESE PEOPLE IN TERMS OF PAINKILLERS, AND RECREATIONAL USE NOT HAVING SERIOUS EFFECTS.

SO IT'S A BALANCING ACT.

CAN WE LOOK AT THIS IN A PARTIAL MEANS AND DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A GOOD THING.

WE DON'T WANT TO LEGALIZE IT AND THEN FIND OUT FIVE, TEN YEARS DOWN THE ROAD THAT THIS WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA, AND IT'S -- AND THERE'S VERY LITTLE POSSIBILITY WE COULD GO BACK IF IN FACT WE FIND OUT IT'S A CRITICAL MISTAKE.

SO I THINK THAT MIXED EMOTIONS IS STILL -- STILL DESCRIBES MY ATTITUDE, TRYING TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND, BUT NOT WHOLESALE OPENING THE DOOR TO THIS.

>> KEVIN SABET, FOR THOSE WHO SAY HEY, THIS A HOOSIER SHOW, YOU ARE A NATIVE HOOSIER FROM FORT WAYNE, SO YOU QUALIFY.

AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR BEING HERE.

SOME OF THESE ARGUMENTS MAY BE NEW TO PEOPLE TUNING IN.

THROUGH YOUR ORGANIZATION AND YOUR WORK IN THE WHITEHOUSE YOU'VE HEARD A LOT OF ARGUMENTS IN STATE AFTER STATE, 37, 38, NOW WITH MEDICAL MARIJUANA, 18 WITH RECREATIONAL.

RESPOND TO WHAT YOU'VE HEARD SO FAR TODAY.

THAT'S A BROAD QUESTION, ACHE TAKE -- TAKE IT AND RUN WITH IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, WONDERFUL TO BE HERE ON PUBLIC TELEVISION IN INDIANA.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE TO SEPARATE SOME ISSUES HERE, BECAUSE WE OFTEN ENTANGLE DIFFERENT CONCEPTS.

THERE IS THE -- AND I THINK THE PANEL'S DONE THAT AND I APPRECIATE IT.

JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT LEGALIZATION, WHICH IS WHAT STATES LIKE COLORADO HAVE, ALLOW THE SALES OF MARIJUANA PRODUCTS, USUALLY WITH UNLIMITED POTENCY, EDIBLES, COOKIES, CANDIES, ICE CREAMS.

TODAY'S MARIJUANA IS NOT YOUR WOODSTOCK WEED, 99% POTENT.

GENETICALLY BRED TO BE DIFFERENT.

PEOPLE MAKING MONEY OFF OF THAT IN COLORADO, UNFORTUNATELY THEY LOOK A LOT MORE LIKE ME THAN THEY DO PEOPLE OF COLOR OR DISADVANTAGE.

ESSENTIALLY RICH WHITE INVESTORS.

THEY'RE COMING FROM INDUSTRIES LIKE BIG TOBACCO AND BIG ALCOHOL, NOT EXACTLY THE MOST TRUSTWORTHY INDUSTRIES.

SO I WORRY ABOUT THAT.

THAT IS DIFFERENT.

THE SENATOR WAS SAYING GOOD POINTS, DIFFERENT FROM THE DECRIMINALIZATION OF PROSECUTION AND EXPUNGEMENT OF RECORDS.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE -- LOW LEVEL AMOUNTS, HAVE SOMEBODY'S CRIMINAL RECORD FOLLOW THEM AROUND WHEN THEY MAKE A MISTAKE FOR POSSESSING OR USING MARIJUANA.

USUALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF SOMETHING ELSE, IF LAW ENFORCEMENT FINDS MARIJUANA IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE LOOKING FOR IT USUALLY, IT IS IN THE CONTEXT OF ANOTHER CRIME.

I AGREE THAT SHOULD NOT BE INCENTIVES, SO THAT'S DECRIMINALIZATION.

FURTHER DIFFERENT THAN THE MEDICAL USE.

WE KNOW THE FDA SAID THERE ARE MEDICAL COMPONENTS THAT COULD HAVE PROMISE.

BUT WE DON'T REALLY VOTE ON MEDICINE OR HAVE POLITICIANS AS GREAT AS THAT MAY BE VOTE ON MEDICINE.

THAT'S KIND OF A WEIRD WAY TO DO MEDICINE.

NOBODY VOTES ON ADVIL WHETHER IT SHOULD BE SOLD TO THE PHARMACY OR NOT.

REFERENDA ABOUT TYLENOL.

SAME THING WITH MARIJUANA.

OF COURSE, IF THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE SWEARING TO THE POSITIVE EFFECTS, I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS SAYING THEY SHOULD BE PUT IN PRISON EITHER, OR THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO TRY IT.

BUT WE SHOULD BE CLEAR ABOUT THE SCIENCE.

AND AGAIN, THAT'S ON THE MEDICAL SIDE, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO CONFLATE THIS.

THE SCIENCE IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT ACTUALLY MARIJUANA IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR OPIOIDS.

IN FACT, AN ADDICTION JOURNAL ARTICLE CAME OUT RECENTLY SAID ACTUALLY OPIOID USERS ARE LIABLE TO USE MORE OPIOID, NOT FEWER OPIOIDS.

THEY ACT ON DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE BRAIN AND BODY.

THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT SUBSTANCE.

I'M NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T INDIVIDUALS THAT SAY I PREFER MARIJUANA AND NOW USING MARIJUANA DAILY.

WHICH I DO WORRY ABOUT, BECAUSE DAILY MARIJUANA USE, HEAVY MARIJUANA USE IS TIED WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS OUTCOMES, SCHIZOPHRENIA, PSYCHOSIS.

WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE GO TO THE HOSPITAL.

AND I WISH LEGISLATURES WOULD NOT ONLY GO TO SEE COLORADO'S FARMS OF MARIJUANA, I WISH THEY WOULD GO SEE THE TREATMENT CENTERS OF MARIJUANA IN COLORADO.

SEE THE ERs WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN BECAUSE OF ACUTE POISON OF THC THAT WAS IN A CHOCOLATE BAR.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN THE POLICIES.

AND WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE MAIN MOTIVATION, MAYBE NOT IN INDIANA, BUT IN THIS COUNTRY AS A WHOLE, THE MAIN MOTIVATION TO COMMERCIALIZE AND LEGALIZE MARIJUANA IS ONE THING ONLY, MONEY.

MONEY FOR SHAREHOLDERS, MONEY FOR RICH INVESTORS, AND I DON'T THINK THOSE PEOPLE HAVE PUBLIC HEALTH ON TOP OF THEIR MIND.

THAT'S MY WORRY.

>> SENATOR MELTON, LOTS TO UNPACK.

I'M GOING TO SAY RESPOND, RATHER THAN ASK A LARGE QUESTION.

>> VERY VALID POINTS IN TERMS OF UNPACKING VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THIS.

FROM SOMEONE THAT'S IN THE NORTHWEST PART OF THE STATE, I SEE SOME THINGS DIFFERENTLY IN REGARDS TO THE CLOSE PROXIMITY WE ARE TO THE ILLINOIS BORDER, CHICAGO, WHICH HAS FULL LEGALIZATION, AND MICHIGAN, WHICH IS A NEIGHBOR.

THEN WHEN I FOCUS AND TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE JUDICIAL -- THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ASPECT OF THIS.

SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE EITHER CROSSING BORDERS, GOING FROM ONE COMMUNITY TO THE NEXT.

I THINK INDIANA IS GOING TO TAKE A BURDEN OF -- ON OF TRYING TO ENFORCE FROM A POLICING PERSPECTIVE INDIVIDUALS THAT MAYBE HAVE THE RIGHT TO LEGALLY CONSUME, OR PARTICIPATE IN THAT SUBSTANCE, CROSSING THE BORDERS.

SO WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IT.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T IGNORE.

I'M HAPPY TO HEAR MY COLLEAGUE, SENATOR GLICK SHARE THIS.

SHE HAS AN OPEN MIND ABOUT THIS.

THAT'S EXTREMELY ENCOURAGING ON THE SUBJECT IN A STATE HISTORICALLY PROBABLY HAVE NOT WANTING TO ENGAGE IN A CONVERSATION.

BUT WITH OUR CAUCUS, WE HAVE ABOUT FIVE BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN AUTHORED.

AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO PUSH THE SUBJECT, THE CONVERSATION.

I THINK IT IS UP TO THE PUBLIC TO ENCOURAGE THEIR LEGISLATORS TO DO EXACTLY WHAT JEFF IS DOING, IN SHARING HIS STORY AND TALKING ABOUT THE BENEFITS.

AND HOW THEY CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS.

AND I WILL SAY THIS, IN TERMS OF LEARNING FROM OTHER STATES, I THINK THERE IS A VALID REASON.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BE VERY OPEN AS WE KNOW MISSISSIPPI IS ONE OF THE MOST RECENT STATES THAT -- HAVE APPROVED IN THE LEGISLATURE JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, MEDICAL MARIJUANA.

SO IF MISSISSIPPI IS LEADING BEFORE INDIANA ON A CERTAIN ISSUE, I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD TAKE NOTICE OF.

>> SUE GLICK, DOES IT MATTER TO YOU WHETHER THE BILLS THAT EVENTUALLY ADVANCE, IF NOT THIS SESSION, THEN IN THE FUTURE, DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO YOU THAT THEY ARE RECREATIONAL AND VERY BROADLY DEFINED OR THAT THEY ARE DECRIMINALIZATION, OR MEDICAL MARIJUANA.

IS THAT A DISTINCTION THAT MATTERS TO YOU, AND OTHERS WHO MIGHT BE SOMEWHAT AMBIVALENT ON THIS TOPIC?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT THE REASON THAT CANNABIS IS LISTED AS A SCHEDULE ONE DRUG, THE REASON IT'S ILLEGAL, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS SAID IT DOESN'T HAVE A MEDICAL USE, I GUESS, OR THAT IT'S NOT -- NO ACCEPTABLE MEDICAL USE.

AND IT'S -- HAS A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE.

I MEAN THAT'S WHY IT IS LISTED SCHEDULE ONE.

THE IDEA THAT IT HAS MEDICAL -- YOU KNOW, THAT THE MEDICAL FIELD HAS BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT, WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT.

I'M NOT SEEING REPORTS SAYING THIS CAN BE USED.

WHAT I AM SEEING IS SOME ANECDOTAL, YOU KNOW, STATEMENTS THAT, YES, I'VE USED IT, IT'S BENEFICIAL.

THE DELTA 9, DELTA 8 VARIATIONS OF THC, WE'RE SEEING THAT PEOPLE ARE USING THEM FOR THINGS LIKE IF THEY'RE ON CHEMO THERAPY IT'S BEEN BENEFICIAL, OR THEY FEEL IT'S BENEFICIAL IN TERMS OF ANTI-NAUSEA AND THAT SORT OF THING WHEN THEY'RE UNDERGOING CHEMO THERAPY.

THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

THE IDEA OF JUST OPENING IT UP AND ALLOWING MARIJUANA TO BE LEGALIZED, AND WHATEVER HAPPENS HAPPENS, I DON'T THINK THAT IS RESPONSIBLE LAW-MAKING FOR THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>>JON SCHWANTES: JEFF STAKER, LET ME ASK YOU, KEVIN WAS SAYING IT IS SORT OF -- DID HE DIDN'T USE THE WORD SILLY, TO ARGUE THAT THIS ISN'T ABOUT LEGALIZATION IN THE BROADEST SENSE, EVEN IF IT IS NOW ABOUT MEDICAL MARIJUANA, THAT'S JUST OPENING THE -- WE TALK ABOUT A GATEWAY, THIS IS A DIFFERENT KIND, A GATEWAY TO BROADER LEGALIZATION.

DO YOU BUY THAT?

JEFF STAKER?

>> ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE, KEVIN POINTED OUT, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FINDING THAT THIS IS A GATEWAY TO EXIT THE OPIATE EPIDEMIC.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT WORKED FOR ME, IT WORKED FOR A LOT OF VETERANS THAT ARE TURNING AWAY FROM THE ALPHABET OF MEDICATIONS THEY'RE GETTING FROM THE VA. AND THEY'RE DOING IT RESPONSIBLY, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOSAGE IS RIGHT FOR THEIR AILMENTS.

AND THEY'RE LIVING A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE.

AND I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN OF THIS ARGUMENT.

UNFORTUNATELY THE BIGGEST LOSS I THINK THAT WE HAVE THIS YEAR WITHIN THE STATEHOUSE WAS HOUSE BILL 1212, WHICH THOUGH IT WAS NOT PROPERLY TITLED, IT CALLED FOR AN INDIANA CANNABIS COMMISSION.

AND WITH ALL THE ARGUMENTS THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST AND THE ARGUMENTS WE'LL HAVE IN THE FUTURE ON THIS TOPIC CAN GO THROUGH THAT COMMISSION.

AND WE CAN HAVE GREAT -- >>JON SCHWANTES: LOOK AT THE ISSUE AND GET A JUMP START.

KEVIN SABET, YOUR ORGANIZATION IS CALLED THE SMART APPROACHES TO MARIJUANA.

BRIEFLY, BECAUSE WE'RE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME.

WHAT IS THE SMART APPROACH?

GIVE ME THE NUTSHELL?

>> THE SMART APPROACH IS NOT PUT PEOPLE IN PRISON AND DECRIMINALIZE.

I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE.

BUT NOT TO GO THE ROUTE OF COMMERCIALIZATION AND LEGALIZATION.

I WOULD BE CURIOUS FROM JEFF AND OTHER ADVOCATES WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO STOP MEDICAL MARIJUANA OR THIS IS GOING TO GO FORWARD TO FULL LEGALIZATION.

IN EVERY STATE, I KNOW INDIANA CAN BE AN EXCEPTION, I HOPE SO, WHERE IT'S BEEN MEDICAL IT HAS BEEN THE GATEWAY TO FULL LEGALIZATION FOR ANY REASON.

AND I WORRY ABOUT THAT.

SO WE ARE REALLY AT SAM ABOUT EMPHASIZING PREVENTION BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT SCIENCE -- EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL ASSOCIATION AGREES WITH WHAT I'M SAYING ABOUT THE SCIENCE.

MOST AMERICANS DON'T KNOW THAT, WE HAVE OUTDATED -- MARIJUANA, SMOKING A FEW JOINTS A WHILE BACK.

THAT'S NOT THE REALITY OF TODAY'S MARIJUANA.

I ALSO ENCOURAGE PARENTS AND PEOPLE IN RECOVERY FROM ADDICTION TO TALK TO THE LEGISLATURE, AND TALK ABOUT HOW MARIJUANA OFTEN OPENED THE DOOR TO FURTHER USE OF OTHER DRUGS, OR SIMPLY OF HEAVY USE OF MARIJUANA, WHICH HAS SO MANY MENTAL HEALTH IMPACTS.

WE WANT TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THAT.

WE DON'T WANT TO BE PUTTING PEOPLE IN PRISON AND CRIMINALIZING PEOPLE.

WE WANT TO HAVE THE REALITY OF LEGALIZATION, WHICH IS BAD NEWS.

ILLINOIS, THAT SYSTEM RIGHT NOW IS ONE OF THE MOST CORRUPT IN THE COUNTRY.

THEY HAVE TRIED FOR YEARS TO GIVE MINORITY LICENSES, THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT AT ALL.

THEY HAVE, WHILE THEY HAVE REVENUE, THEY ALSO HAVE COSTS.

AND SO YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT REVENUE WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE COST OF DRIVING, WHICH WE HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED ABOUT HERE, THE DRIVING ISSUE.

THE COST TO THE WORKPLACE, THE HEALTH SYSTEM.

LOST PRODUCTIVITY.

THERE IS ON AND ON AND ON, THAT WE REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND, THAT I ACTUALLY THINK INDIANA COULD STAND OUT AND SAY IF YOU WANT WEED AND THAT ENVIRONMENT AND LIFESTYLE, GREAT, GO TO THE NEIGHBOR NEXT DOOR.

WE'RE OFFERING A SAFER ENVIRONMENT ON OUR ROADWAYS, SAFER FOR FAMILIES, AN ALTERNATIVE, WHAT UTAH DOES FOR SKIING VERSUS COLORADO.

YOU SHOULD SEE HOW UTAH'S SKI INDUSTRY INCREASED SINCE COLORADO LEGALIZED.

NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO THE SLOPES WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE HIGH, SOME DO.

A LOT DON'T.

INDIANA HAS A CHANCE TO STAND OUT FROM THE CROWD RATHER THAN KIND OF FOLLOW BLINDLY WHAT OTHER PLACE MIGHT BE DOING FOR THE WRONG REASON.

>>JON SCHWANTES: SKIING MAY NOT HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH THE ARGUMENT IN INDIANA.

THERE ARE A FEW PLACES IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE STATE.

EDDIE MELTON, YOUR BILLS WOULD HAVE LEGALIZED MARIJUANA BROADLY FOR ADULTS AND SET UP AN APPARATUS.

IN TERMS OF A LINE IN THE SAND POLITICALLY, THIS IS AN ISSUE VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAUCUS AND TO THE STATE PARTY.

WOULD WITH YOU SETTLE FOR MEDICAL MARIJUANA, OR DECRIMINALIZATION, OR IS IT -- ARE YOU ALL IN WITH THE BROADER BILL AS YOU INTRODUCED IT?

>> THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

AND I'M A REALIST IN THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

I KNOW BEING IN THE SUPER MINORITY, WE HAVE TO -- IF WE'RE TRYING TO GET ANYTHING ACCOMPLISHED IT HAS TO BE IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, I THINK MOVING IN THE -- IS A FIRST STEP.

THAT WILL BE ACCEPTABLE.

BUT I THINK WE CAN GO A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.

AND I THINK WHEN KEVIN MENTIONED IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT OTHER STATES, I AGREE WITH THAT.

HOWEVER, THERE'S A FEW THINGS I WILL JUST SAY IN TERMS OF PROVIDING -- EXPERTING LIKE KEVIN PROVIDING LEGISLATIVE LEADERS WITH DATA AND FACTS SUCH AS OPERATING WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

THAT'S AN ISSUE, WHERE IS THE DATA IN VARIOUS STATES APPROVES THAT'S BEEN AN ISSUE WITH THAT, AND OTHER EXPENSES THAT MIGHT BE CONNECTED TO THE WORKFORCE.

SO I KEEP AN OPEN MIND.

AND I TRY TO BE AN ADVOCATE FOR THE ISSUES THAT I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT.

BUT ALSO I DON'T WANT TO OVERLOOK SOME THINGS THAT WE MIGHT NEED TO ADDRESS ALONG THE WAY.

INDIANA HAS A HISTORY OF BEING A VERY PRUDENT AND VERY INTENTIONAL AS WE CRAFT LEGISLATION AND IMPLEMENT LAWS, AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DEVIATE FROM THAT.

HOWEVER, I DO THINK THE CLOCK IS TICKING.

AND THE NATION IS MOVING FORWARD, AND WE'RE NOT JOINING THE REST OF THE STATES IN TERMS OF MOVING THIS CONVERSATION ALONG.

AND TO ME, IT'S AT A STALEMATE.

WE CAN'T WAIT ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, LIKE THE OTHER 38 STATES THAT MOVED FORWARD.

WE HAVE TO HAVE A PRODUCTIVE BIPARTISAN CONVERSATION.

>> SUE GLICK, FINAL WORD, SENATOR MELTON TALKED ABOUT THIS NEEDING TO BE BIPARTISAN.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE BILLS INTRODUCED THIS SESSION, THE 13, MANY WERE, BORE THE NAMES OF REPUBLICANS.

WHAT DOES YOUR POLITICAL GUT TELL YOU HOW CLOSE INDIANA IS TO SOME FORM OF EITHER DECRIMINALIZATION OTHER LEGALIZATION?

>> OBVIOUSLY WE'RE MUCH CLOSER THAN WE WERE FIVE YEARS, TEN YEARS AGO.

BECAUSE WE ARE WATCHING OUR NEIGHBORS, WE'RE WATCHING THE OTHER STATES.

I THINK THE ECONOMIC ISSUE IS DRIVING A LOT OF THE CONSIDERATION.

DO WE LEGALIZE MARIJUANA EVEN, YOU KNOW, FOR SMALL AMOUNTS, AND THEN TAX IT, WHICH IS ALWAYS A SOURCE OF REVENUE.

AND SOME OF OTHER SISTER STATES HAVE DONE THAT.

BUT DO WE WANT TO GET INTO THAT?

A FEW YEARS AGO WE ALL WERE TOLD THAT VAPING WAS GOING TO REPLACE CIGARETTE USE SO WE COULD WEAN EVERYONE OFF CIGARETTES AND THEY WOULD TAKE ON THIS VAPING.

AND IT WAS GOING TO BE A CURE-ALL.

IT BECAME AN ECONOMIC THING.

BUT REALLY IT BECAME A MORE INTENSE USE OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

IT WASN'T THE CURE-ALL THAT WE ALL ANTICIPATED.

SO I THINK AT LEAST ON THE MAJORITY SIDE, ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, I THINK WE'RE BEING CAUTIOUS.

WE DON'T WANT TO GET SUCKED IN, IF YOU WILL, TO THE IDEA THIS IS GOING TO BE A BENEFIT.

THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ECONOMIC BOON.

THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING EVERYBODY WANTS.

I THINK WE HAVE TO, AS I SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING, THIS IS A BALANCING ACT.

>>JON SCHWANTES: ALL RIGHT.

>> IS IT A PROFITABLE THING, IS IT A MEDICAL THING?

>>JON SCHWANTES: GREAT QUESTIONS WEECHLT WILL BE WATCHING HOW HOOSIERS BOTH IN AND OUTSIDE THE STATEHOUSE ANSWER IN THE KK MONTHS AND YEARS.

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INPUT, VERY GOOD PANEL DISCUSSION.

AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN DEMOCRATIC SENATOR EDDIE MELTON OF GARY REPUBLICAN SENATOR SUE GLICK OF LAGRANGE JEFF STAKER, FOUNDER OF HOOSIER VETERANS FOR MEDICAL CANNABIS AND KEVIN SABET, HEAD OF SMART APPROACHES TO MARIJUANA.

TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONVERSATION WITH ED FEIGENBAUM, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER INDIANA LEGISLATIVE INSIGHT, PART OF HANNAH NEWS SERVICE.

ED, WE'VE SEEN POLLS THAT SHOW 80% OF HOOSIERS FAVOR LEGALIZATION.

I DIDN'T KNOW 80% OF HOOSIERS AGREED ON ANYTHING ANYMORE.

HOW MUCH WILL PUBLIC INPUT DECIDE ULTIMATELY THIS LONG-RUNNING DEBATE?

>> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS NOT THE LARGE PERCENTAGE, BUT THE WAY THAT THOSE PERCENTAGES HAVE BEEN MOVING, JON.

PARTICULARLY WITHIN REPUBLICAN VOTERS IN THOSE POLLS.

WE'VE SEEN SOMETIMES IDEAS TAKE A WHILE TO COME TO FRUITION, AND WE SAW THIS WITH THE HATE CRIMES, WE SAW THIS WITH SAME SEX MARRIAGE.

I THINK YOU'LL SEE THE SAME THING WITH MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION.

IT IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE PUBLIC SENTIMENT IS CHANGING, THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS IN PARTICULAR.

>> WHAT'S THE MAJOR IMPEDIMENT DO YOU THINK AT THIS POINT?

>> I THINK RIGHT NOW IT'S REALLY TECHNICAL.

OBVIOUSLY THE GOVERNOR HAS CONCERNS ABOUT THE FEDERAL LAW.

I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO CHANGE.

I THINK WE'VE ALSO SEEN THAT THE FEDS AREN'T INTERESTED IN FUNDING ENFORCEMENT OF THIS.

I THINK THE KEY THING IS TRYING TO GET THE INDIANA STATE POLICE, SOME OF THE LOCAL POLICE ONBOARD ON HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ENFORCE THE EQUIVALENT OF OWI RESTRICTIONS ON MARIJUANA.

>>JON SCHWANTES: SO YOU THINK FEDERAL ACTION HAS TO PROCEED ULTIMATELY LEGALIZATION IN INDIANA?

>> WELL, FOR THIS GOVERNOR TO SIGN IT, APPARENTLY.

IT HASN'T BOTHERED, YOU KNOW, 30-SOMETHING OTHER STATES.

>> WITH DIFFERENT GOVERNORS, YEAH.

ALL RIGHT, ED.

AS ALWAYS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT, LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING WITH YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKERS TAKE AIM AT INDIANA'S GUN LICENSING SYSTEM, SHOULD HOOSIERS BE ALLOWED TO CARRY WITHOUT A PERMIT.

WE'LL TAKE IT UP ON THE NEXT INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

YOU CAN ACCESS LIVE STREAMING COVERAGE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON THE INTERNET AS WELL.

AND, REMEMBER, YOU CAN GET OUR SHOW—- ON DEMAND — FROM XFINITY.

WELL, THAT CONCLUDES ANOTHER EDITION OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND, ON BEHALF OF WFYI PUBLIC MEDIA AND INDIANA'S OTHER PUBLIC-BROADCASTING STATIONS, I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND I INVITE YOU TO VISIT WFYI.ORG FOR MORE STATEHOUSE NEWS.

UNTIL NEXT WEEK, TAKE CARE.

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