[heroic music] ♪ >> Hello and welcome to Comic Culture.

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guests today are the creative team behind a new graphic novel, "The Matron."

Monica Gallagher, David Bowles, and Drew Edwards.

Welcome to Comic Culture.

This is an interesting concept, and I'm going to ask, I guess, Drew, if you would explain a little bit about what "The Matron" is.

Because it looks like it's kind of one of these homages to those great 80s slasher films, but also with a modern day twist.

So what is "The Matron" all about?

>> "The Matron" began as actually a pitch for a Texas Chainsaw Massacre comic.

The idea behind it was, at the time I was working as a butcher and I was living on a farm in McKinney, Texas.

And I would have to drive across the countryside to Plano, Texas, and to go to work.

And every night I would take note that the big city was kind of growing into the town more and more.

And I started to think about the family from the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and what would happen if you brought them forward into the 21st century.

And how they would react if a Starbucks was suddenly right next to their spooky murder house.

For various reasons, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre comic didn't happen.

I always thought it was a good pitch, but it kind of broke my heart that it wasn't going to happen.

So decade later, I'm at a convention and I'm talking to David about it, because they had just put out the Netflix Texas Chainsaw Massacre film, which had some similar ideas to it.

And David very wisely said, well, why don't you just come up with your own slasher?

And we can sort of revamp this concept, because I think it's a very strong concept.

And through our conversation, we hit on the idea, because Leatherface in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre series is quite a passive character.

He's sort of his family's attack dog.

And we started thinking, well, what if the character was actually the head of the family?

What if she was the matriarch?

What if she was the matron?

And the idea of a older woman slasher really was appealing to David and I.

And that's the general genesis of it.

>> As we started talking about gentrification, small town Texas, the hill country where Drew lives, he didn't grow up there, but he lives there now.

And the ethnic concentration, the blend of Mexican and German and Czech, we started thinking about this comic would be a really good way to make some interesting statements or to dig into the culture and realities of living in central Texas and to grapple with what is it like to be a middle-aged woman, single mom, kind of like the main breadwinner for a family and have gentrification flipped on its head?

And what does somebody do when they're backed in a corner and have no other way out?

And frankly, seeing that Zina Krennic in our comic, well, she takes up a mask and an axe and begins to kill the people that have made her life so miserable and to serve them up to her family as meals.

And so, you know, we wanted to have, kind of like have our cake and eat it too, have this 80s, very almost schlocky, over-the-top kind of concept, but then ground it in like the actual experiences and culture of Czech Texas families and small towns in central Texas.

>> Monica, let's find out how you got involved in this project, because I know from your comics, the Sublime Assassin Roommate, and of course Bonnie and Clyde 9 to 5, you're, you know, action, adventure, humor, but this is a different spin.

So how did you get involved with "The Matron?"

>> I surprisingly, I met Drew a couple years back at a convention in Austin called HavenCon, and he was kind enough over the years, he's recommended me to different shows, different people, kind of showed me around the Austin comic scene, which I'm always so grateful for, because a lot of comics people, we don't like to talk to other people.

But yeah, he recommended me for the project, and I think like all good projects, if it really scares you, you should do it.

So this is kind of a new avenue for me to explore, actually drawing, or drawing like really terrible things.

Because I always kind of loved drawing violent things, but they were always kind of funny.

So this is less, I mean, it's still probably going to be funny, I don't know.

The way I draw.

>> And I got the chance to see some of the sample pages on the Kickstarter page.

So what I notice is that you are, you're working within your own style as you are doing this.

I'm wondering, you know, as you are known for those fantastic knuckles.

>> The swirly knuckles.

>> The swirly knuckles, which I mean, I absolutely love.

So, you know, as you are seeing the content that Drew and David are writing, you know, are you thinking perhaps, oh gosh, maybe I need to serious this up?

Are you thinking, I'm going to find what makes it work for me in those words, or maybe it's that combination of the two?

>> That is the challenge, and I was really worried.

And I'm still worried, like every time I draw anything for them, that it's too cartoony, too much, but I don't know how to get out of my own style.

You know, like I can to a degree, but then you hit a wall, and my style will never be hyper-realistic.

It's just impossible, and I think I'm too impatient for that anyway.

But yeah, I was definitely consciously trying to make it more serious, but I think no matter what, it's just going to slap me in the face.

It's just my stuff.

>> And frankly, it's one of the reasons that we were drawn to her as probably the best fit for this, because it is a very gruesome story.

But, and so at the same time, it needs some levity, and there is some levity injected into the script, but it also needs distance, artistic distance in the imagery, so that it's not so immediate that it overwhelms readers.

We would like for people who don't always pick up folk horror or slasher horror, because the bloodiness of it is just something that's distasteful to them, because the other things that we're trying to say, the other things that matter to us about, you know, Zina Krennic, the matron, her family, and the community that she lives in, we want other people to read that.

And so I think that this distance is really good.

You saw in those sample pages, which are a flashback to the first matron who was killed, you know, 46 years before our comic begins, that, you know, you have these brutal scenes of the matron like slamming an ax into somebody's face.

It's gruesome, but it's also bearable, I think, and to me, that's really important.

And there's just something so perfect about the way she draws ordinary folk, and something I loved about My Assassin Roommate is just like, you know, normal, frumpy people, and just making them feel so real and making you like fall in love with them nonetheless.

It's great.

And the minute she -- the minute, Monica, you know this, I've said it so many times, the minute I saw your drawing of Monica -- of Monica -- oh, that would be great if we -- just insert you in there somewhere.

We'll call a character Monica.

>> I'm going to -- yeah, I'm going to murder myself.

>> Yeah, murder yourself or the next murder.

of Zina Krennic holding her coffee cup and like just looking like a woman who could pick up an axe and slam it into a dude's face, and that's what I wanted, you know.

Not some -- so much horror, you have this -- it's trying to be feminist and so forth, but it always chooses, you know, through the male gaze, the buxom, lithe, you know, beautiful girl to be doing things that are -- you're like, what?

No, I don't think so.

And I wanted a woman that looked like, yes, she's worked her entire life.

She's pushing 60, but she can still chop wood.

And you better believe that if she can chop wood, she'll chop your head off.

>> You know, the talking about the humor of it all, like everything I've ever written, even when it's horror, has an element of humor, because my writing just tends to go there like I have a strong influence from Sam Raimi.

I have a strong influence from Charles Adams and James Well, and all those people that combined the macabre with the whimsical in such a good way.

And Monica is a wonderful partner in bringing those elements of the writing to life.

And, you know, I think, you know, people who are genre fans will pick up on that.

And, you know, I've said this, I think, in just about every interview I've done.

When I first saw her artwork, especially her artwork of cryptids, I saw the horror potential with her.

And I am not going to be surprised if she gets booked for more genre work after people see this comic.

>> It's nice, too.

It's kind of like actors who are, you know, only -- they're only put in comedies, and they really want to do drama, but no one wants to take that risk on them.

And it is a weird thing that you get kind of typecast in comics, too, that people have trouble seeing the vision.

So that's why I'm so grateful that Drew and David, like, took a chance on me, because that really does help you grow, too.

>> It's funny, and I think this is something Drew and I talked about in our last conversation, that there are two reactions that people have that just seem to be universal.

One is you're really scared or you're laughing.

Something either strikes you funny -- you can't control it if you're laughing at something.

You can't control being scared by something.

When something's going to get you, it's going to get you that way.

And I think there is that connection between when things are stressful, we do find the humor in it.

I can think back to, you know, family events, a funeral, perhaps, that turns into a very happy occasion, not because you're missing the person.

You're remembering all those good times.

I think when we look at horror and that humor component, it's kind of -- it's important to have that in there, because otherwise, it's kind of like having the salty without the sweet.

So you're not getting the full range of flavors.

You're just getting one thing.

And after a while, maybe that's going to be a little bit too much.

David, as you are sitting back and you are writing something like this, and I know that you wrote sort of a prose piece that is a companion to "The Matron" set back in a police station.

How difficult is it for you as a writer -- and I understand, you know, writing is writing -- but writing for an artist is different.

So how do you know when to put in less and when to put in more, depending on what the art is showing you versus when you're at the typewriter by yourself and you're sitting down and just writing something that you're the only voice?

>> Yeah, no, I mean, it is a huge difference.

You know, most of the 40 books that I've published, either that I've written or translated, have been prose, but I have done a couple of graphic novels.

And I still remember the very first one that I did where I was like over the top, because I had no idea who the illustrator was going to be.

And so I went into so much detail about every single panel, described things, had links to all these reference images.

And then when I worked with my daughter on a subsequent one, she was like, "Dad, I don't want any of that.

Just tell me what you kind of imagine in as few words as possible, and trust me as the illustrator to do my job."

And so, you know, that's one of the things that is going to be -- that's the variable, right?

When we first wrote the -- when we wrote the original, I guess, like first maybe three scripts, we weren't sure whether Monica was going to be the illustrator.

But then with four, five, and six, knowing that she was on board and beginning to see some of her art, we were able to trust her more and be a little bit, you know, to be a little more like comic in what we're writing.

And just trust her and allow her to take her vision of things and be a co-creator with us of those scenes and those characters.

And it is -- I mean, it's difficult.

Writers -- writers are pros.

We tend to be kind of like, you know, anal and controlling about things.

And it is, you know, collaborating with other people, whether they're illustrators or co-authors, is about give and take.

It's about keeping the project first and not your own prima donna, touchy-feely sensibilities, right?

And so, oh, my gosh, I see Monica now as an integral part of this project.

And I want to trust her as much as possible.

And, you know, here's hoping that our first season, as our Aussie editors call it, does well.

And we can come up -- we can do another miniseries of three graphic novels down the road.

And hopefully, Monica will come along with -- for the ride.

Because I think that it's perfect.

And I just know that if that does happen, writing those scripts will be even easier because we will just -- we will have built up this relationship and this trust.

And it will, I think, facilitate that whole process.

And take some of the heavy lifting off of us.

But I will say, Terence, that writing it, not knowing who the illustrator was, and in Drew's apartment with him swinging a baseball bat around, pretending to be the matron, there's something to be said for that.

I mean, just like basically writing what I'm seeing, you know, substituting the matron in for Drew, right?

And Drew swings and collides with the invisible cop that's right in front of him.

So there was something to be said for that kind of -- >> Method acting?

>> Method acting, yes.

Method acting, very -- I just always imagined -- and you told me that you're a very kinetic storyteller.

But it wasn't until I was there doing it that our two different styles of writing meshed in this really beautiful way.

Because, you know, Drew is -- like he said, he's a lot more comedic.

He's a little more schlocky.

He's driven by like this kinetic sensibility in storytelling.

And I'm a lot more cerebral and in my own head about things.

And to tell a story like "The Matron," which is -- it's frankly like, you know, you remember the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup commercials when we were kids, right?

Two great tastes that taste great together.

You know, somebody falling, accidentally dropping their peanut butter into somebody else's chocolate or vice versa.

It's kind of what happened here.

We accidentally fell into each other's lives through our friend Jason Henderson.

And here comes "The Matron" as the kind of harrowing result of that.

>> You're working with a writer for a new collaboration.

Surely there will be some conflicts that arise.

So when something is, you know, I'm really strong.

This is the way it's got to be.

No, this is the way it's got to be.

When you have these two differing opinions, how do you hammer it out without swinging bats at each other to make sure that, you know, I can understand your point, you can understand my point, and we can understand what makes it better?

And I guess, Drew, we can throw it over to you.

>> You know, we really haven't had any conflicts, actually.

Like, David and I are old friends, and we have a pretty good shorthand.

And even, honestly, any time we've even thought that there might be, like, ruffled feathers or hurt feelings, we're pretty quick to give each other a phone call and, you know, work it out.

Like, and it's usually kind of hashed out almost immediately.

This has been one of the most easy collaborations.

And, you know, I've been in the comic book industry now for almost 25 years.

And there's, you know, a ton of different people that I worked with and worked for.

And working with David has been pretty seamless.

And, honestly, like, I don't think either one of us have had, like, an ego.

Like, we both know that we're, you know, we have our accolades, we have our, you know, respective corners, which we know we're good at.

And, you know, there's just this general sense of camaraderie that we just want to make it as good as we know it can be.

I mean, perhaps there will be that kind of thing down the line.

But I honestly don't think so.

>> We could have a fight just to have a fight.

Just like -- >> Yeah!

>> Yeah, leave the door open for a fight.

>> Yeah.

Communication, he's basically said it, Terence.

Communication is everything.

We have multiple email threads that, as I'm putting together the annotated screenplay for the Kickstarter for the first volume, I'm just drawing from these great, rich conversations we have where, you know, every couple of days we'll pop in and say, "And what about this?"

And, you know, I don't know.

I can see a little bit of what you're trying to say, but what if we tried it this way?

This is kind of like throwing out ideas and being receptive, but pointing out the weaknesses and just being honest with each other as best as possible.

And, yeah, I mean, not having an ego is also really important.

Both of us know project is the most important thing.

>> And, Monica, you know, hearing this answer, the two -- Drew and David have a long-term relationship where they've been friends for years, and you're sort of the newcomer and fitting in and earning that respect.

As you are coming into this, how do you kind of politely maybe say, "You know what?

I was looking at this page, and I think if I did it this way, you could cut this part out," or maybe if you reposition this because, I mean, you are a gifted storyteller in your own right.

Maybe you've got that one little thing that you see that they both missed.

>> Yeah, I think that's why comics are comics.

It's always a collaboration.

It's always a conversation, and that's part of what frustrates me when I see certain comic series that swap out the artist.

Like the artist isn't important, and I feel like when you do that, it's an entirely different book because it should be a collaboration.

It should be a conversation.

And I've worked -- I've written books before that other people have drawn, and so I've tried to learn from that how much to give them and how much to let them.

Because I think the number one rule is you always make sure, like David was saying.

>> Well, we lost Monica, but we still have Drew and David.

So, you know, as you are working with Monica as your new collaborator, and you mentioned, David, that Monica's pages came in, and you were able to sort of adjust to your writing to what you saw.

As you are getting maybe some feedback from her, again, is this that welcoming collaboration or are you thinking, you know, stay in your lane a little bit?

>> Absolutely, it's a welcoming collaboration.

And so what typically happens is she will send us her initial sketches, her thumbnails, rather, and she'll, you know, elicit feedback from us.

And it's there where you'll begin to see, ah, this is how she's taken these panels.

Because we're not really specific.

It's like four panels, very seldom are we like, and set them up like this, whatever.

And so it's great to see how she's decided to make the action flow on the page.

And her basic ideas for the characters.

And occasionally there'll be something there that we give her feedback.

And then, of course, she does the penciling, you know, the sketching, and the line art.

And each step of the way, she shows us what she's doing.

And it's so exciting to see it.

And occasionally there are things like, oh yeah, hey, you know what?

I know that the script is kind of vague about this, but this character should not have a bullhorn in this panel, whatever.

Like just little minor things like that, for the most part, though, it's like a gift, right, Drew?

When you get that email from her saying, here's the line art for these pages.

You're like, oh, yes!

And you open it up.

>> Yeah, I just get excited to see what, you know, she's done with what we've written.

I mean, I like working in comics because I like collaboration.

And, you know, Monica is a great team member.

And I think we all make each other better.

>> And Monica, welcome back.

We lost you there for a moment, but-- >> My power's out.

The storm knocked out my power.

Yeah, it was just raining.

And then the lightning struck, and now I'm in the dark.

>> Well, I guess it's good for a comic like "The Matron."

So Monica, you were talking about the beauty of comics being that collaborative medium.

So, you know, working with these two gentlemen and being able to bounce ideas back and forth, you know, how do you feel that that has improved your storytelling or your ability to collaborate with someone else in the future?

>> Oh, I think it's great.

The best you can hope for is people like Drew and David who are open to talking about stuff and open to communicating what they want.

And I love when people have a vision that they're so excited about, because then that makes me excited to bring it to life.

I usually don't try to insert myself too much unless it's, I don't know, I have strong opinions.

But usually it's just like fun to be part of it.

And you learn something new from every collaboration.

One thing that I have to learn every time I illustrate someone else's story is to not cheat, to not, you know, take away stuff that they, you know, if they want like a city center, I have to draw the city center.

Or if it was me, I would just be like, "Oh, we don't need that."

So it really, it helps challenge me and give me confidence moving forward with other collaborations or the same collaboration on different projects, because then I know, it kind of gives me the confidence to try new things that normally I wouldn't on my own, which is great.

>> This is a book that was crowdsourced.

So I'm just wondering, you know, Monica, I know you've done a few in the past, and Drew, I know you've done some.

So working on crowdfunding is tricky because you need to sort of network.

And I know that the three of you have been hitting the podcasting circuit pretty hard trying to get the word out there.

Is it easier working collaboratively with other people who have that network, or is it, you know, about the same as working by yourself on trying to get a project funded?

>> I -- >> For sure.

>> In some ways, I think it's better when you have a lot of people, because you're bringing in all your respective fan bases, right?

Having a team on this was, you know, it didn't feel quite as laborious as other crowdfunding campaigns I've done.

But it still felt labor -- like, I'm not going to lie.

I immensely dislike doing crowdfunding, even though I do think in a lot of ways, it's a wonderful thing that has evened the playing field for indie projects and small press projects.

But it's also like you're basically -- it's like you're at a convention, and you're putting yourself out there, and it's the stressful part of that.

And as Monica pointed out, a lot of the time, comic book people are naturally introverted anyway, but you're having to really be in people's faces.

The difference between this and a convention is that it doesn't end.

It's basically 24 hours a day for the length of the campaign, because even when you're not doing interviews, you're on social media, you're on Twitter, you're on Instagram, you're on Facebook, TikTok, whatever, and you're really, really -- like, "hey, get excited about my project!

Get excited about my project!"

That gives me tremendous anxiety.

I'm not going to lie.

Like, I -- you know, there's a million other things I would rather be doing than that, but I also think it's great that it exists.

So I guess that's a double-edged sword.

>> Yeah, and I mean, in this particular case, because it's a Kickstarter that is -- that's originating with our publisher, and the publisher is using it in multiple ways, you know, as a way to give people the opportunity to pre-order, to get their hands on the story first before it hits, you know, comic stands through Diamond and Lunar and so forth at the end of the year and the beginning of next year, to get all these little extra doodads and so forth, you know, prequels and side stories and all kinds of new art or whatever.

I mean, it's lovely.

It's great.

But, you know, the role of a publisher normally is, you know, they publish your book, and that's -- I'm not used to the Kickstarter thing.

The two of them have a lot more experience at this than I did.

So to me, it was also, like, very stressful, but it's also this really cool opportunity to reach out and share in a way that maybe you wouldn't otherwise.

And so it's a two-edged sword, but I'm enjoying it.

>> Well, David, Monica, and Drew, they are telling me that we are out of time.

If the folks watching at home wanted to find out more about "The Matron," is there a website they can go to?

>> There sure is, thematron.us.

>> I want to thank the three of you for taking time out of your schedule.

Hopefully, you'll stay safe in the storms.

And I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching Comic Culture.

We will see you again soon.

[heroic music] ♪ >> [Terence narrating]: Comic Culture is a production of the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, giving broadcasting majors professional experience and on-screen credit before they graduate.

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