>>> THE NEXT STEPS IN THE HOUSEHOLDER CASE AND ABORTION RIGHTS MOVES CLOSER TO THE BALLOT.

>> WELCOME TO COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD.

IT HAS BEEN A WEEK SINCE THE BOMB SHELL VERDICT THAT CONVICTED LARRY HOUSEHOLDER AND MATT BOAR JESS OF RACKETEERS.

THEY AWAIT SENTENCING FOR THEIR ROLES IN A $61 MILLION BRIBERY SEE SCHEME.

WE STILL WAIT TO SEE IF OTHER PLAYERS WILL FACE CHARGES, INCLUDING LOBBYISTS WHO FUNDED THE MONEY THROUGH THE HOUSEHOLDER AND POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE.

YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY YOURSELF, FORMER PROSECUTOR, OBSERVER OF THESE CASES.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN NEXT IN THIS CASE?

>> I'M NOT SURE HOW THEY'VE DONE THIS.

THEY DIDN'T INDICT EVERYBODY AT ONCE -- ASSUMING THERE IS ANYTHING, AND YET YOU WOULD THINK FROM WHAT LITTLE I KNOW WITH FIRST ENERGY SAYING THEY ADMITTED TO BRIBING PEOPLE AND SO FORTH.

THAT'S THEIR WORD, BRIBE.

THAT WAS THE AGREEMENT THEY MADE.

THE CORPORATION CAN'T DO THAT.

SOMEBODY HAS TO BE DOING IT.

WHETHER THEY MADE SOME AGREEMENT, WHICH THEY CAN DO, IT'S THEIR AUTHORITY, THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE CHARGED.

I DON'T KNOW.

IF I HAD TO GUESS, A PURE GUESS, I WOULD SAY IT'S NOT OVER.

BUT IT MAY WELL BE -- THEY MAY HAVE JUST DECIDED TO GO THIS WAY.

I KNOW, AS WE ALL KNOW, THE MAIN PLAYER WAS HOUSEHOLDER, AND ONCE HE'S BEEN CONVICTED, ASSUMING IT HOLDS ON APPEAL AND SO FORTH, THAT MAY WRAP IT UP.

BUT THAT'S REALLY ALMOST A LAYMAN'S GUESS.

THE FACT THAT I'M A LAWYER DOESN'T MEAN MUCH.

>> JESSE, YOU WERE IN THE COURTROOM FOR A LOT OF THIS.

WERE THERE ANY INDICATIONS THAT OTHER PLAYERS -- BECAUSE THE FIRST ENERGY EXECUTIVES NEVER TESTIFIED, WHICH WAS ODD, PERHAPS, I DON'T KNOW.

>> YEAH.

WELL, THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE THAT EITHER PLED THE FIFTH OR ADVISED THEY COULD HAVE PLED THE FIFTH, SO THAT COULD HAVE BEEN THE CASE FROM SOME OF THE PEOPLE YOU MIGHT HAVE CALLED FROM THE COMPANIES.

I THINK WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM THE SEVEN WEEKS OF THE TRIAL WAS A LOT MORE ABOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF EXECUTIVES FROM FIRST ENERGY BUT ALSO FIRST ENERGY SOLUTIONS, WHICH LATER BECAME ENERGY HARBOR, THE COMPANY THAT OWNED THE NEW CLEAR PLANTS.

WE LEARNED A LOT MORE ABOUT KIND OF THEIR LEADERS AND HOW THEY WERE ALSO PUSHING FOR THIS BALLOT INITIATIVE AND THE MONEY THAT THAT COMPANY SPENT AS WELL.

SO THE ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY AFTERWARDS, YOU KNOW, DECLINED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT ADDITIONAL CHARGES.

WE'LL SEE WHAT COMES NEXT.

>> SAM, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

SHOULD THE FOLKS FROM FIRST ENERGY, SHOULD THEY BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

WHO FIRST ENERGY CLAIM IT PAYS FOR INFLUENCE BE HELD ACCOUNT SNBL.

>> THEY ALL SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

WHAT I'M SURPRISED AT IS HOUSEHOLDER'S ATTORNEY COULD NOT FIND ONE WITH DOUBT.

THE EVIDENCE MUST HAVE BEEN OVERWHELMING.

AND THEN, MICHAEL, I HAVE A QUESTION.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY?

DID THEY HAVE TO TURN THAT MONEY BACK OVER?

WHERE'S THE MONEY?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MAY HAVE SOME SORT OF SUIT TRYING TO RECOVER SOME OF THAT, SAM.

BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU WHERE IT IS.

HOUSEHOLDER COULD, BUT I CAN'T.

>> YOU SAID IN TESTIMONY HE WAS GOING TO REPAY JEFF AFTER THE CASE WAS OVER, SO I'M SURE JEFF IS EAGERLY AWAITING THAT CHECK.

>> THE FBI ALSO SEIZED A COUPLE MILLION DOLLARS FROM JEFF'S ACCOUNTS WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED.

BUT A LOT OF THE $61 MILLION WENT TO ADD VERSAILLESMENTS WE ALL SAW ON TELEVISION.

SO THAT MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT.

>> JEFF IS ONE OF THE FOLKS WHO PLED GUILTY AND RETURNED FOR TESTIFYING AGAINST LARRY HOUSEHOLDER.

THIS WEEK ON OUR POLITICAL PODCAST SNOLLY GHOSTER, WE SPOKE WITH -- AFTER THE FOUR YEAR IDEA, I ASKED HIM IF THIS CASE ILLUSTRATES HOW POLITICS IS DONE AT THE STATE HOUSE.

HERE'S HIS ANSWER.

>> YOU SEE ONE APARTY, WHETHER IT'S THE DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS, ONE PARTY TAKES POWER.

THEY ESSENTIALLY HAVE A FREE PASS TO GET THINGS DONE, ESPECIALLY WITH A SUPER MAJORITY.

IT IMPACTS PEOPLE'S LIVES EVERY DAY.

BUT WHAT WE SAW TAKING PLACE IN OHIO WAS THE OPPOSITE, AND IT'S STILL HAPPENING.

LOOK WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE STATE HOUSE NOW WITH LEADERSHIP FIGHTS AND PEOPLE THROWING FITS.

YOU HAVE ALL OF THIS OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING GOOD, AND INSTEAD, YOU SPEND IT BICKERING WITH ONE ANOTHER AND FIGHTING ABOUT WHO GETS TO SIT WHERE.

ALL THE WHILE, PARTS OF HOUSE BILL 6 ARE STILL IN PLACE.

THEY'RE STILL IN PLACE, AND THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP LEVELS, NOT JUST THE LEGISLATURE, HAVE REMAINED COMPLETELY SILENT AND HAVE ACTED LIKE THEY HAD NO IDEA ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WAS GOING ON DURING ALL OF THIS.

I DON'T BUY IT.

I THINK THAT IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE WORST FORM OF POOR LEADERSHIP, AND IT'S A STAIN ON OHIO.

>> LET'S UNPACK THERE.

WE'LL START WITH HOUSE BILL 6, JESSE.

IS THERE ANY EFFORT TO GET THE SUBSIDIES FOR THE COAL PLANTS THAT ARE STILL IN PLACE AS PART OF THE BILL REPEALED OR PUTTING BACK THE RENEWABLE ENERGY STANDARDS?

ANY EFFORT IN LEGISLATION TO CHANGE THAT?

>> ANOTHER PROPOSED LEGISLATION INTRODUCED TO ADDRESS THE SUBSIDIES GOING TO -- WHICH OWNS TWO COAL PLANTS, ONE IN OHIO AND ONE IN INDIA ACROSS THE BORDER.

THAT IS A MORE LIKELY SCENARIO.

THAT WAS ADDED TO HOUSE BILL 6 AS A WAY TO GET PEOPLE ON BOARD WITH PASSING THESE SUBSIDIES FOR FIRST ENERGY AND FIRST ENERGY SOLUTIONS.

BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF OPPOSITION TO THE RENEWABLE ENERGY PORTFOLIO STANDARDS AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY, ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS AND KIND OF THE INCREASING REQUIREMENTS FOR THOSE.

I JUST THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A HEAVIER LIFT.

>> TO THE OTHER PART, MIKE MILLER, THE STAIN ON OHIO, HE SAID SINCE 2016 -- THIS IS THE WAY POLITICS HAS BEEN DONE IN THIS STATE.

SORT OF ALL OR NOTHING, BARE KNUCKLES, NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD BUT FOR POWER.

>> I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE IT THE WAY HE DESCRIBES IT.

HE'S RIGHT ABOUT ONE PARTY RULE, AND IT CAN BE A PROBLEM.

OF COURSE WE'VE GOT THAT IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS.

I DON'T BELIEVE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ELECTED ANYBODY TO ANY CITY POSITION IN OVER A QUARTER OF A CENTURY.

AND WE'VE GOT VERY FEW AT THE COUNTY NOW.

SO ONE PARTY RULE CAN BE A PROBLEM, AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH HIM THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY GOOD FOR THE STATE OR THE CITY OR THE COUNTY FOR THAT MATTER.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY LIKE THAT.

YOU'RE GOING TO FIND CORRUPTION WHEREVER YOU GO UNFORTUNATELY, WHETHER IT'S LAWYERS, DOCTORS, POLITICIANS, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT'S NOT LIMITED TO REPUBLICANS.

THE CITY COUNCILMAN IN CINCINNATI CONVICTED OF BRIBERY AWAITING SENTENCING.

BACK IF WE GO TO 2012 WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, BUT I THINK JUDGES, AND IT'S SAD.

BUT IT'S JUST PART OF THE -- YOU KNOW, HUMAN BEINGS -- >> WHAT'S THE FIX, SAM?

CAN WE FIX IT?

>> BEFORE I ANSWER THAT.

IT WAS DUEY FULLER, LAST TWO REPUBLICANS.

WE HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO MAKE IT COMPETITIVE.

YOU KNOW?

WITH THE NEW DISTRICTS COMING ALONG, THE HOPE IS AND ONE OF THOSE OUT OF BOUND DISTRICTS, THERE WILL BE A COMPETITIVE REPUBLICAN, SO YOU'LL HAVE SOME REPRESENTATION.

>> ON CITY COUNCIL.

>> ON CITY COUNCIL.

I'M NOT SURE OF THAT.

I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'LL EVER HAVE IT ON THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGAIN.

THERE ARE NO DISTRICTS THERE.

JUST THE WAY THE MONEY FLOWS.

AND I WANT YOU TO BE ASSURED OF ME.

DEMOCRATS ARE JUST AS CORRUPT AS REPUBLICANS.

AND WHEN THEY HAVE ABSOLUTE CONTROL, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRUPT TOO.

AND YOU CAN SEE EXAMPLES OF THAT IN CITY COUNCIL AND THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS.

SO CORRUPTION IS CORRUPTION, AND MY WAY OF LOOKING AT IT.

AND REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO THAT THING.

>> CHECKS ON POWERS.

>> YES.

>> ALL RIGHT.

NEXT TOPIC, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO GUARANTEE ABORTION RIGHTS IN THE OHIO CONSTITUTION MOVED FORWARD THIS YEAR.

THE HO E HO BALLOT BOARD RULED THE AMENDMENT DOES INDEED INCLUDE ONLY ONE ISSUE.

THE VOTE ALLOWS SUPPORTERS TO BEGIN COLLECTING THE MORE THAN 400,000 VALID SIGNATURES TO GET THE ISSUE ON THE BALLOT.

THEY HAVE UNTIL EARLY JULY TO DO SO.

THIS WEEK, ABORTION COMPONENTS UNVEILED THEIR FIRST TV AD.

ON THE ONE ISSUE RULING, IT WAS A QUICK RULING, AND REALLY NOT A WHOLE LOT OF CONTROVERSY.

WAS THERE ANY ARGUMENT THAT THIS WAS MORE THAN ONE ISSUE IN THIS AMENDMENT?

>> THERE REALLY WASN'T.

ONE OF THE BALLOT MEMBERS IS A REPUBLICAN AND SAID SHE DIDN'T LIKE THE CONTENT OF THIS AMENDMENT AND SUPPORTS IT BUT FELT LIKE IT WAS STILL ONE ISSUE.

I FELT LIKE THAT WAS THE POSITION OF A NUMBER OF BOARD BALLOT MEMBERS.

THESE ARE KIND OF THE BUREAUCRATIC STEPS YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN ORDER TO GET SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT.

THIS GROUP WAS ABLE TO GET THROUGH WITH THEM AS QUICKLY AS ONE CAN.

>> SOMETIMES, THESE ARE THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL AMENDMENTS.

TAKES A COUPLE OF TRIES TO GET THROUGH THE AG'S RULING AND THE BALLOT BOARD.

THIS ONE SAILED THROUGH.

>> MAKES ME PARANOID.

I WONDER WHY.

THERE WAS NO FIGHT, THERE WAS NO GIVE.

THERE WAS NO NOTHING.

>> BECAUSE IT'S WELL WRITTEN FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT?

>> THAT WAS WELL WRITTEN, BUT THEY HAD SOMETHING THAT WAS WRONG.

THE COMMA WAS IN THE WRONG PLACE.

THE HYPHEN.

SOMETHING WAS WRONG.

THIS TIME, NOTHING WAS WRONG.

MAKE ME PARANOID.

I WOULD WORRY ABOUT THIS IF I WAS THEM.

>> ABORTION RIGHTS SUPPORTERS?

>> YES.

>> THE ADS ARE OUT ALREADY.

$5 MILLION BUY -- UP TO 5 MILLION, WHETHER THEY SPEND THE DOLLARS REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

PETITION GATHERS ARE PROBABLY OUT THIS WEEKEND.

IT'S NOT ON THE BALLOT, BUT YET THEY'RE STILL SPENDING $5 MILLION ON ADS TO OPPOSE IT.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY SPENT ON BOTH SIDES.

I THINK THIS DECISION MADE THAT IT WAS A ONE-ISSUE DEAL WAS UNANIMOUS.

I THINK IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

THIS NEEDS TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

EVERYBODY ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, REGARDLESS OF YOUR POSITION, IS VERY INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE, SO THEY'RE GOING TO GET THEIR SIGNATURES, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FIGHT, AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN NOVEMBER.

I THINK IT'S FRANKLY HEALTHY.

THERE WILL BE SOME BIRTNESS ON BOTH SIDES, BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS EVERYBODY'S INTEREST, AND EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A SAY.

WE WON'T GET IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER OUT OF THE WAY.

>> THE ABORTION PROPONENTS CLAIM THIS WILL CONCLUDE WHAT IS THE PARENTAL CONSENT IN OHIO THAT YOU WOULD NO LONGER HAVE TO NOTIFY YOUR PARENTS IF YOU WERE A MINOR HAVING AN ABORTION OR THEY CLAIM GENDER AFFIRMING CARE.

>> THIS IS A PROCESS KIND OF ANSWER, BUT IF THIS IS SOMETHING OHIO VOTERS APPROVED IN NOVEMBER, IT WOULD BE IN THE CONSTITUTION, AND LAWYERS WOULD HAVE TO CHALLENGE CURRENT STATE LAW BASED ON THAT NEW CONSTITUTIONAL STANDARD.

SO I IMAGINE THE CURRENT BAN ON MOST ABORTIONS AFTER CARDIAC ACTIVITY IS DETECTED IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD COME UP FOR CHALLENGE IF THIS WERE APPROVED.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IS GOING TO SUE OVER PARENTAL RIGHTS.

THEY MIGHT.

THERE'S NO EXPRESSED DISCUSSION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS IN THE LANGUAGE, NOR GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, BUT I THINK THIS IS A DEBATE YOU HAVEN'T HEARD THE LAST OF.

>> THIS IS A POTENTIAL FALLOUT IF THIS WERE TO PASS.

>> IT'S NOT MICHIGAN THAT SNUCK UP ON PEOPLE, NOR IS IT KANSAS THAT SNUCK UP ON PEOPLE.

EVERYBODY KNOWS THE GAME HERE.

I THINK THE DYNAMIC IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

I DON'T KNOW WHO WHAT THOSE DYNAMICS ARE GOING TO BE, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT.

>> IT'S ON ODD-YEAR ELECTION WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE A PRESIDENTIAL OR CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE ON THE BALLOT.

BUT MARIJUANA COULD BE ON THE BALLOT AS WELL, SO THERE'S THAT.

>>> THE 58 COUNT COMPLAINT ALLEGES THE RAILROAD VIOLATED FEDERAL LAWS.

ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST SAYS IT RECKLESSLY ENDANGERED OHIOENS AND ITS NATURAL RESOURCES.

>> THIS DERAILMENT WAS ENTIRELY AVOIDABLE.

I'M CONCERNED THAT NORFOLK SOUTHERN IS MAYBE PUTTING PROFITS FOR THEIR OWN COMPANY AS WELL AS IS HEALTH AND SAFETY OF CITIES AND COMMUNITIES THEY OPERATE.

>> HE WOULD NOT SAY HOW MUCH MONEY THE STATE IS LOOKING FOR EXCEPT FOR SAYING LOTS AND LOTS.

NORFOLK SOUTHER HAS APOLOGIZED AND PROMISES TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR PAYING FOR THE CLEANUP.

IS THIS MAKING SURE THEY DO THE RIGHT THING?

>> 100%.

PEOPLE CAN PROMISE TO MAKE CHANGES, BUT SOMETIMES THEY GO BACK ON THOSE PROMISES.

USUALLY LEGAL ACTION HOLDS PEOPLE TO THOSE PROMISES A LITTLE.

>> THIS IS ABOUT THE CASH.

PROMISES BE DAMNED.

>> NORFOLK SOUTHERN DOES A GOOD JOB AND FULFILLS ITS PROMISES, THEY WON'T OWE ANY MONEY TO THE STATE.

>> I THINK THEY'RE SAYING THEY'VE ALREADY SPENT A LOT OF MONEY FROM EMERGENCY RESPONSE TO CLEANUP.

>> THE RAIL'S SAFETY BILLS ARE CROPPING UP.

THERE'S TWO IN CONGRESS, ONE IN THE SENATE, ANOTHER IN THE HOUSE.

THERE'S ANOTHER ONE IN THE OHIO HOUSE.

DOES THE MOMENTUM CONTINUE TO GET THESE PASSED?

>> AT THIS POINT, IF THEY GET IT DONE WITHIN THE NEXT 75 DAYS, PASS.

BUT I GOT TO THROW SOMETHING ON THE TABLE THAT WE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY KEEP ASKING OURSELVES.

THEY CALL IT PALESTINE, NOT PALESTINE.

WHY DO THEY DO THAT?

>> BECAUSE THEY CALL IT -- WHY AM I -- >> HE'S OVER THERE LAUGHING.

HE KNOWS WHY.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHY, SAM.

MY WIFE'S FROM AROUND THERE, SO I'VE HAD TO SAY IT FOR MANY YEARS.

>> WE'RE USED TO IT CALLING BERLIN.

ANYWAY.

JESSE IS ALSO KIND OF STARTING TO PUSH BACK ON THE OHIO CHANGES, THE ONE THAT WOULD REQUIRE A COUPLE OF CONDUCTORS ON THE TRAINS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

THEY SAY IT'S GOING TO HURT SHORT-RUN RAILROADS.

>> LIKE THE SMALLER RAILROADS AND SO FORTH.

WE NEED TO HASH THIS OUT BEFORE THE END OF THE MONTH, SO YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLY SOME MORE CHANGES BEFORE THEN.

BUT THE INITIAL PROPOSALS WERE REQUIRING TWO CREW MEMBERS AND THESE WASTE SIDE DETECTORS.

THERE'S ALSO FEDERAL LEGISLATION BEING CONSIDERED THAT WOULD EFFECT MORE THAN JUST OHIO.

>> WILL THESE REGULATIONS HELP DO YOU THINK?

THE ONE ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU MONITOR TRACKS EVERY TEN MILES OR SO.

>> WELL, IT CAN'T HURT.

ACCIDENTS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN, AND THE RAILROAD IS CLEARLY AT FAULT, AND THEY'RE GOING TO PAY A TREMENDOUS PRICE.

ALL THE STUFF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BRINGS FORTH, AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE PRIVATE CITIZENS UP THERE -- IT'S GOING TO GO ON FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

AND THE RAILROAD IS GOING TO SPEND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS TO GET THIS THING SQUARED AWAY, BUT I THINK THEY WILL.

>> IT TURNS OUT IF YOU OFFER PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHERS TO EVERY STUDENT IN OHIO, IT'S GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE.

SO SO THAT THE NONLEGISLATIVE SERVICE COMMISSION, THE BACKPACK BILL WOULD ALLOW ANY STUDENT, REGARDLESS OF INCOME TO GET A VOUCHER TO ATTEND A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

IF EVERYONE NOW ATTENDING A PRIVATE SCHOOL GOT A VOUCHER, IT COULD COST MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS.

SUPPORTERS SAY IT WON'T BE THAT EXPENSIVE BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VOUCHER.

SEEMS TO ME IF YOU HAVE $5,000 SITTING OUT THERE, YOU MAY NOT GET IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

BUT EVENTUALLY, YOU WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, WOULDN'T YOU?

>> EXACTLY.

BUT THERE'S SOMETHING VERY HYPOCRITICAL ABOUT THIS.

I THOUGHT THEY WERE CALLED PRIVATE SCHOOLS, AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO SOMEHOW, WE HAVE BLURRED THE LINES HERE, AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE PUBLIC CASH TO MAKE PRIVATE SCHOOLS PAID FOR?

>> THE ARGUMENT IS THAT YOU PAY SCHOOL TAXES AS A TAXPAYER, BUT YOU -- BUT YOU DON'T SEND YOUR CHILD TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL AND YOU HAVE TO PAY THE TUITION, THAT YOU SHOULD GET SOME KIND OF COMPENSATION FOR THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE PAYING PUBLIC SCHOOL TAXES BUT NOT GETTING A BENEFIT FROM THAT.

>> SO DOES IT DISSIPATE BECAUSE YOU HAVE PUBLIC MONEY NOW?

>> THAT'S THE ARGUMENT, THOUGH.

>> THAT'S THE ARGUMENT.

I THINK IT'S ABSURD, AND I THINK IT'S CRIMINAL THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE WHAT LITTLE MONEY PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE -- YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.

THEY REDUCE THE TAXES, THEY REDUCE THE MONEY THEY TAKE FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND NOW THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THESE VOUCHER PROGRAMS, AND THEN THEY WONDER WHY PUBLIC SCHOOLS DON'T WORK.

>> MIKE, THOUGHTS ON PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHERS PUBLICLY FUNDED?

>> WELL, IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME A BIT.

SAM SAYS YOU WONDER WHY PUBLIC SCHOOLS DON'T WORK, THEY HAVEN'T WORKED IN A LONG TIME.

IT'S A VERY SIMPLE PROCESS.

ALL KIND OF PEOPLE FROM RICH PEOPLE TO POOR PEOPLE TO IN BETWEEN PEOPLE WANT TO FIGURE OUT SOME WAY TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL THAT'S NOT A PUBLIC SCHOOL BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A DISASTER.

NOW, THIS IS JUST ONE WAY, AND OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE OPPOSED TO IT, WHICH I UNDERSTAND.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS NEVER GOING TO GO AWAY UNLESS THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS START DOING FAR, FAR BETTER THAN THEY HAVE BEEN.

NOT JUST FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT FOR THE LAST 20 TO 30 YEARS.

IT'S BEEN JUST A DISASTER.

>> JESSE, ON THE PRICE TAG, THAT HAS TO SCARE A LOT OF PEOPLE.

IT IS A BILLION DOLLARS.

WILL THAT PROMPT SOME COMPROMISE WITH THIS?

DO THE SUPPORTERS JUST WANT TO SAY EVERYONE GETS IT REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU LIVE OR HOW MUCH MONEY YOU MAKE?

>> I THINK THE PRICE TAG IS GOING TO BE A POINT OF DISCUSSION, ALSO THE POINT OF THE OHIO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THERE'S A LOT OF FRACTURES WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS.

THEY'VE HAD TO RELY ON DEMOCRATIC VOTES FOR THE TRANSPORTATION BUDGET.

SO IF YOU HAVE TO NEGOTIATE WITH DEMOCRATS ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOME CHANGES.

>> HOME SCHOOLING WOULD GET THE SAME AS PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHERS, I BELIEVE.

CORRECT, JESSE?

>> LOOKS LIKE THAT.

>> SHOULD HOME SCHOOL PARENTS GET THE SAME AS A PRIVATE SCHOOL WHERE A HOME SCHOOL DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY A TEACHER OR SEPARATE FURNACE BILL, ELECTRIC BILL, DO YOU THINK?

>> IT'S A GOOD POINT, MIKE.

I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK EVERY CHILD SHOULD HAVE ROUGHLY THE SAME OPPORTUNITY.

AND EVERYBODY THINKS THAT.

I MEAN, THAT'S NOT JUST ME.

WHETHER YOU CAN SAY, WELL, SINCE YOU'RE HOME SCHOOLED, YOU SHOULD GET A LITTLE LESS, I SUPPOSE IF THAT OPPORTUNITY IS THE SAME, YOU KNOW, YOU COME TO ONE CONCLUSION OR ANOTHER.

BUT I -- IT'S JUST -- I THINK IT'S -- THE BIG PROBLEM IS ONE I'VE SET FORTH, IT'S GOT TO CHANGE.

REMEMBER, HOME SCHOOL PEOPLE DO THIS ON THEIR OWN TOO.

>> WHAT IF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS TAKE THE VOUCHERS, IT'S A WAY FOR THEM TO GET A DIFFERENT ATMOSPHERE FOR THEIR CHILD, THEY THINK IT'S A BETTER IS THERE ANY BENEFIT TO THAT COMPETITION, SAM?

>> NO, IN MY OPINION.

AND I HAVE BEEN DOWN THAT ROAD.

I HAVE THREE SONS.

MY OLDEST SON'S BIRTHDAY IS OCTOBER 1st.

AND YOU HAVE TO BE A CERTAIN AGE BEFORE OCTOBER 1st.

SO I WENT DOWN THAT ROAD, PRIVATE SCHOOL, CHURCH SCHOOL, THE WHOLE SCENARIO, I WENT THROUGH IT.

AND ENDED BACK UP IN PUBLIC SCHOOL BECAUSE WHAT MADE THE DIFFERENCE TO ME, THE TOUGHNESS.

BEING TOUGHER AND HAVING RUN INTO A VARIETY OF KIDS THAT WERE DIFFERENT FROM MY KID.

ONE OF THE WORST ONES WAS THE PRIVATE SCHOOL WHERE HE CAME HOME AND SAID TO ME, WHERE ARE WE GOING ON SPRING BREAK?

ARE WE GOING TO SPAIN?

AND I TOLD HIM, YOU SEE THAT BACKYARD OUT THERE?

>> YEAH.

>> OUR LAST TOPIC.

SOME REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS WANT TO APPLY WHAT THEY CALL A CANCELED CULTURE ON PUBLIC COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

THIS BILL WOULD BAN MANDATED DIVERSITY TRAINING AND END UNIVERSITY TRAININGS WITH CHINESE INSTITUTIONS AND PROHIBIT PUBLIC COLLEGE EMPLOYEES FROM STRIKING.

IT EVEN INCLUDES A MANDATORY READING LIST, WHICH INCLUDES THE CONSTITUTION, DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION, AND -- IS THERE A BOOK ON THERE THAT YOU WANT?

DID THEY MISS ANYTHING?

>> THEY DIDN'T SAY THAT.

>> DON'T DO MIND COP.

>> YOU KNOW, LIKE AT THAT.

THERE WAS A COMMENT WHICH I TOOK DOWN HERE FROM THE LADY WHO I BELIEVE IS A MINORITY LEADER FOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY SAYING THIS SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD THEORETICALLY, BUT I NEED TO LOOK AT IT.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY FAIR RESPONSE.

WOKE IS SOMETHING THAT'S NOT VERY POPULAR WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND THIS IS JUST WHAT'S LET INTO IT.

WHETHER IT HAPPENS -- AGAIN, IT'S PART OF THE SPLIT IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

THE ONE WANTS THIS SIDE, AND ONE WANTS THIS SIDE, AND THEY FIGHT OVER THIS.

BUT IT'S -- I BELIEVE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO GAIN THEIR CITIZENSHIP -- I MAY BE WRONG ON THIS -- HAVE TO DO THESE SAME THINGS.

SO IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT'S BAD TO ME.

>> SAM?

>> LET'S FACE IT.

COLLEGE CAMPUSES TEND TO LEAN LEFT.

AND THERE ARE SOME STUDENTS AND FACULTY WHO FEEL LIKE THEY CAN'T SPEAK UP ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

HOW DO YOU FIX THIS?

>> I THINK YOU CAN DO IT WITH LEGISLATION AND THE TEN YEAR STRUCTURE HAS TO BE STRONGER THAT ALLOWS COLLEGE PROFESSORS TO SAY THINGS.

WHEN I WAS GROWING UP IN HIGH SCHOOL, YOU HAD THE CONSTITUTION TEST, AND YOU HAD TO PASS THE CONSTITUTION TEST IN HIGH SCHOOL.

YOU HAD TO PASS TWO TESTS, THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND THE STATE OF ILLINOIS CONSTITUTION.

SO, YEAH, WE DID THIS.

BUT THE TEN-YEAR PROTECTIONS APPEAR TO BE MUCH GREATER BACK THEN THAN WHAT THEY ARE NOW.

>> DOES THIS HAVE ANY CHANCE OFFING TO THE HOUSE AND SENATE, OR IS THIS SYMBOLIC?

>> I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A DEBATE ON IT.

THERE'S EVEN PARTS THAT REQUIRE EVALUATION OF WHETHER PROFESSORS ARE CULTIVATING A CLASSROOM FREE OF BIAS.

THERE'S A LOT IN THIS BILL.

IT COULD BE CHALLENGED BY JUST THE WEIGHT OF IT, BUT WE'LL SEE.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD SHOUTS.

>> MY OFF THE RECORD SHOUT IS NOT GOOD NEWS.

I READ THE OTHER DAY THAT IT'S SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, THE FIRST REPUBLICAN DEBATE FOR PRESIDENT.

THAT'S SEPTEMBER OF 2023 FOR AN ELECTION NOVEMBER OF 2024.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

>> IT WILL BE HERE BEFORE YOU KNOW IT.

SAM.

>> REPUBLICANS ARE BETTER AT MESSAGING THAN DEMOCRATS.

ANYBODY CAN COME UP WITH CRT AND WOKE ARE DOING PRETTY GOOD.

>> AND JESSE?

>> THE PORTRAIT FOR FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER LARRY HOUSEHOLDER WAS REMOVED FROM THE HALLS OF THE OHIO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES THIS WEEK.

IT ONLY TOOK ABOUT A WEEK, EVEN THOUGH REMOVING HIM FROM THE LEGISLATURE TOOK ABOUT 11 MONTHS.

>> DO YOU KNOW WHERE IT IS NOW?

>> I HAVE BEEN TOLD IT'S IN A CLOSET OF THE CAPITAL SQUARE REVIEW AND ADVISORY BOARD.

COLLECTIONS ROOM.

>> MY COMMENT IS I DO URGE YOU TO LISTEN TO THE COMPLETE INTERVIEW MY COLLEAGUE STEVE BROWN AND I DID.

YOU CAN FIND IT AND SUBSCRIBE TO IT WHEREVER YOU FIND YOUR PODCAST.

IT'S A REALLY INTERESTING INTERVIEW.

TAKES A LITTLE PEEK BEHIND THE POLITICAL CURTAIN IN OHIO, AND IT'S NOT A PRETTY ONE.

THAT IS COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD THIS WEEK.

PLEASE CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION.

YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON FACEBOOK AND YOU CAN WATCH US ON YOUR TIME, YOU CAN CATCH US AT OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG/COTR OR ON THE PBS VIDEO APP.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.