♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Crossley: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST, AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT, "A NEW SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: THE NOMINATION OF KETANJI BROWN JACKSON."

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF, AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

IT WASN'T AS MUCH ABOUT HER JUDICIAL EXPERIENCE AS IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN FOR ANY OTHER SUPREME COURT NOMINEE.

NO, JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN TO BE NOMINATED TO THE NATION'S HIGHEST COURT, FACED A BARRAGE OF HOSTILE QUESTIONS CHERRY-PICKING HER SENTENCING RECORD ON CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, AND DEMANDING SHE RESPOND TO ONGOING CULTURE WAR ISSUES ABOUT TRANSGENDER RIGHTS AND TEACHING ANTI-RACISM IN SCHOOLS.

MILLIONS OF BLACK AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMAN, EMPATHIZED, WATCHING HER COMMAND A PROFESSIONAL POSTURE DURING NEARLY 24 HOURS OF QUESTIONING OVER TWO DAYS.

ON MONDAY, THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WILL VOTE ON WHETHER TO SUPPORT HER CONFIRMATION FOR A FULL SENATE VOTE.

WILL KETANJI BROWN JACKSON MAKE HISTORY BY ASCENDING TO A SEAT ON THE SUPREME COURT?

JOINING US REMOTELY: RENEÉE LANDERS, PROFESSOR OF LAW AND FACULTY DIRECTOR OF THE HEALTH AND BIOMEDICAL LAW CONCENTRATION AND THE MASTERS OF SCIENCE IN LAW: LIFE SCIENCES PROGRAM AT SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL IN BOSTON.

TRACEY MACLIN, PROFESSOR OF LAW AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW.

RENEÉE GRAHAM, ASSOCIATE EDITOR AND OPINION COLUMNIST FOR THE "BOSTON GLOBE'S" OP-ED PAGE.

AND DR. CECIL R. WEBSTER, JR., A PSYCHIATRIST AND LECTURER AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

I WANT TO START THIS WAY, BY LETTING JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON SET THE TABLE AS SHE DID AT THE HEARINGS ABOUT WHO SHE WAS.

SO MANY BLACK GIRLS AND WOMEN WERE LOOKING AT HER BECAUSE SHE WAS POTENTIALLY GOING TO BE THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO BECOME A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE.

HERE IS HE IS.

>> I DO CONSIDER MYSELF, HAVING BEEN BORN IN 1970, THE FIRST GENERATION TO BENEFIT FROM THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE LEGACY, FROM ALL OF THE WORK OF SO MANY PEOPLE WENT INTO CHANGING THE LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY SO THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME COULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE SITTING HERE BEFORE YOU TODAY.

>> Crossley: SO RENEE GRAHAM YOU SAY THIS IS MONUMENTAL.

>> IT IS.

THIS IS SOMETHING, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 233 YEARS THE SUPREME COURT, THERE HAVE BEEN 115 JUSTICES, ONLY EIGHT, WELL SHE WOULD BE THE EIGHTH, HAVE NOT BEEN WHITE MEN.

AND SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT JUST THE FIRST BLACK NOMINEE, BLACK FEMALE NOMINEE BUT THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO GET TO THE SUPREME COURT AND THERE IS VERY LITTLE QUESTION SHE'S GOING TO GET THERE BECAUSE REPUBLICANS DO NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO KEEP HER OUT.

JOE MANCHIN OF WEST VIRGINIA, DEMOCRAT SENATOR HAS ALREADY SAID HE'S ON BOARD AS WELL AS SUSAN COLLINS OF MAINE.

REPUBLICANS CAN'T STOP THIS BUT WHAT THEY DID WAS TO MAKE THE PROCESS AS HORRIBLE AND ARDUOUS FOR HER AS POSSIBLE.

>> Crossley: AND YET HER CREDENTIALS ARE FOR MANY UNQUESTIONABLE.

THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION, TERESATRACEY MACLIN, YOU SAW EARLY ON SHE WAS AS SMART AS SHE WAS.

SHE WAS A FORMER STUDENT OF YOURS.

>> CORRECT.

THE ADA IS RIGHT ON.

YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY QUESTIONS RELATED TO HER CREDENTIALS.

SHE'S EXTREMELY WELL QUALIFIED.

WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT REALLY IS VERY SAD.

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN EASY HEARING.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE POLITICS OF THE MOMENT AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HER QUALIFICATIONS.

>> Crossley: SO RENEE LANDERS, YOU SAY IT'S A BIG STAGE IS WHAT IT WAS AND THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PARTICIPATING, THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSING HER AND TO A LARGE EXTENT JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON HAVE ROLES TO PLAY AND IF HER SHE WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT THROUGH PROCESS.

TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU MEAN THERE.

>> SO SURE.

I THINK I WANTED TO AGREE WITH TRACEY THAT ONE OF THE -- IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE REPUBLICAN OPPOSITION TO GRANDSTAND AND TO REEMPHASIZE THEIR TALKING POINTS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE HAMMERING HOME DURING THE MID TERM ELECTIONS THIS FALL ON ISSUES REMITTED TO THE CULTURE WARS.

THE PERCEPTION AND THE STEREOTYPES THAT IT IS PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO COMMIT CRIMES, THOSE -- THE PERCEPTION AND THE QANON THEORIES ABOUT DEMOCRATS BEING FAVORABLE AND CODDLING PEDOPHILES AND RUNNING PEDOPHILE RINGS WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE.

AND THEN FINALLY THE CULTURE WAR ISSUES OVER WHAT STUDENTS CAN LEARN IN SCHOOL.

WHETHER IN FACT STUDENTS CAN BE TAUGHT ABOUT THE COMPLICATED HISTORY AROUND RACE, GENDER, AND RIGHTS EVER PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS AND SEXUAL IDENTITIES THAT ARE NOT TRADITIONALLY HETEROSEXUAL.

AND SO I THINK THAT IT WAS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF PUT THOSE ISSUES INTO THE MINDS OF THE PUBLIC AND REINFORCE THOSE QUESTIONS.

AND I THINK FROM HER POINT OF VIEW, SHE'S TOTALLY SUCCEEDED IN STAYING CALM AND PROFESSIONAL.

BECAUSE PEOPLE OF COLOR DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION OR AT LEAST WOMEN OF COLOR DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION OF REACTING EMOTIONALLY OR ANGRILY WHEN CHALLENGED THAT WAY IN THE WAY THAT CLARENCE THOMAS DID AT HIS CONFIRMATION HEARINGS AND ALSO JUST JUSTICE KAVANAUGH.

I THINK SHE QUALIFIED FOR A SEAT ON THE SUPREME COURT.

>> Crossley: I'M SURE PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO WATCH 24 HOURS OF THE TESTIMONY AND SEE SOME OF THE MOST I WOULD DESCRIBE THEM BRUTAL QUESTIONING.

SO LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT ONE THAT WAS PARTICULAR BRUTAL FROM TEXAS SENATOR TED CRUZ.

HE PRESSED JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON ABOUT CRITICAL RACE THEORY, ASKING HER ABOUT IBRAM X. KENDI'S BOOK, "ANTI-RACIST BABY."

TAKE A LOOK.

>> ANOTHER PORTION OF THE BOOK, THEY RECOMMEND BABIES CONFESS WHEN BEING RACIST.

NOW, THIS IS A BOOK THAT IS TAUGHT AT GEORGETOWN DAY SCHOOL TO STUDENTS IN PRE-K THROUGH SECOND GRADE, SO FOUR THROUGH SEVEN YEARS OLD.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS BOOK THAT IS BEING TAUGHT WITH KIDS THAT-- THAT BABIES ARE RACIST?

>> SENATOR...

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ANY CHILD SHOULD BE MADE TO FEEL AS THOUGH THEY ARE RACIST OR THOUGH THEY ARE NOT VALUED, OR THOUGH THEY ARE LESS THAN; THAT THEY'RE VICTIMS, THAT THEY ARE OPPRESSORS.

I DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY OF THAT.

BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT, WHEN YOU ASKED ME WHETHER OR NOT THIS WAS TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS, CRITICAL RACE THEORY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT CRITICAL RACE THEORY, AS AN ACADEMIC THEORY, IS TAUGHT IN LAW SCHOOLS.

AND TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU'RE ASKING THE QUESTION, I UNDERSTOOD YOU TO BE ADDRESSING PUBLIC SCHOOLS, GEORGETOWN DAY SCHOOL, JUST LIKE THE RELIGIOUS SCHOOL THAT JUSTICE BARRETT WAS ON THE BOARD OF IS A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

>> Crossley: WELL, TWO THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, SO-CALLED CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS NOT BEING TAUGHT, ANYWHERE, ANYWHERE I HAVE TO SAY THIS EVERY TIME WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, IN K-12 SCHOOL ANYWHERE, PERIOD.

THAT IS THE FIRST THING.

THE SECOND THING, IBRAM X. KENDY'S BOOK, THAT SENATOR CRUZ ATTACKED THE JUDGE ABOUT, IS ABOUT A SCHOOL HIS CHILDREN ATTEND, JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

DWR CECIL WEBSTER IS I APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING IN THE MONUMENTAL NATURE OF THE MOMENT BY TAKING A LOOK AT HER SITTING IN THAT SEAT.

SHARE WITH -- WHAT YOU WERE THINKING WHEN YOU SAW HER SITTING THERE AS SHE DID IN THIS INSTANCE RESPONDING BACK TO TEXAS SENATOR TED CRUZ.

>> WELL, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK FOR MANY OF US THAT HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THESE HEARINGS, WHEN SHE FIRST GOT INTO THAT CHAIR, IT REMINDED US THAT MANY OF US HAVE NEVER SEEN A BLACK WOMAN IN THAT CHASE.

IN FACT THAT IS THAT CASE, NO BLACK WOMAN HAS BEEN UP FOR THE NOMINATION BEFORE.

AND THIS MIGHT BE A PERSONAL BIAS OF COURSE BUT I CERTAINLY DON'T SEE MANY PROFESSIONAL, BLACK PROFESSIONALS WITH LOCKS MUCH LESS FOR A SUPREME COURT NOMINATIONS.

I JUST GOT BACK FROM PARENTAL LEAVE, I WAS HOLDING MY SON AND IT ALLOWED ME TO EVEN IMAGINE, LIKE THIS WORLD IS WIDENING FOR OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO KIDS LIKE MY SON ISAAC, OR WITH MANY PEOPLE THAT I GET OSEE IN MY CLINICAL PRACTICE.

I THINK MANY PEOPLE, AS YOU ALLUDE TO, VERY MUCH RECOGNIZE, WITH THOSE PAUSES AND THOSE SHIFTS AND THOSE EYE IMROW RAISES, DIFFICULTIES WHICH WITH JUDGE JACKSON HAD TO FACE IN THAT SEAT BUT IT ALSO ALLOWED US A LOT OF JOY TO SEE THAT THIS IS A MORE FULL REFLECTION OF WHO WE ARE AS AMERICANS.

>> Crossley: SO TRACEY MACLIN, ASIDE FROM OUR MOMENT OF PRIDE WHICH THERE IS LOTS OF MOMENT OF PRIDE ABOUT THIS AS WE'VE SEEN.

YOU MAKE THE POINT THAT SHOULD SHE BE CONFIRMED AND RENEE GRAHAM HAS SAID SHE'S MOST LIKELY WILL BE CONFIRMED, THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE BALANCE ON THE COURT, THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CERTAINLY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT AS WELL.

WHILE WE HOLD THAT JOY, THAT CECIL WAS TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE THE DECISION THAT WILL COME OUT OF THE COURT MAY LOOK THE SAME.

>> OH, THEY WILL LOOK THE SAME.

SHE'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE BALANCE OF THE COURT ONE IOTA.

AND THAT'S JUST THE REALITY.

BECAUSE OF HOW THE COURT IS PRESENTLY CONSTITUTED.

AND IF I COULD JUST QUICKLY GO BACK TO SENATOR CRUZ'S QUESTION, I MEAN IT WAS FLANKLY ONE OF THE SILLIER QUESTIONS BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT IS NEVER GOING TO DEAL WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER OF HIS DISCUSSION.

IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO COME UP.

AND SO FOR HIM TO PUSH HER AND CHALLENGE HER ON THAT, IT'S FRANKLY, HE KNOWS BETTER.

TED CRUZ CLERKED FOR CHIEF JUSTICE, FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE BILL RION REHNQUIST.

THAT SUBJECT IS NEVER GOING TO SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY IN THE SPHRORT.

THAT IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT THEY WERE NOT SERIOUS ABOUT ASSESSING HER QUALIFICATIONS OR HER JUDICIAL TEMPERAMENT.

THIS IS ALL AS RENEE SAID, JUST POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING.

>> Crossley: I'M FOND OF NOTING THAT RIGHT AFTER HE DID THAT DISPLAY A PHOTOGRAPHER CAUGHT HIM SCROLLING ON TWITTER TO SEE IF HIS NAME WAS BEING MENTIONED.

SO GRAND STANDING INDEED.

IT WAS DOCUMENTED AT THE TIME.

SO BACK TO YOU RENEE.

SO WE SAW ON DISPLAY A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY, HEY YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO ASK THEM HARD QUESTIONS, TOUGH QUESTIONS, THIS IS THE HIGHEST COURT THIS THE LAND.

MAKE IT AMERICAN FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE WAY IN WHICH QUESTIONS WERE STRUCTURED AND THE MANNER IN WHICH THEY APPROACHED HER WAS REALLY RACIALLY CODED.

>> WHICH RENEE.

>> Crossley: I'M SORRY, RENEE GRAHAM.

>> YOU KNOW WATCHING IT I JUST KEPT THINKING ABOUT WHAT SENATOR MINORITY LEADER MITCH McCONNELL HAD SAID THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE ASERIOUS AND DIGNIFIED PROCESS.

WHICH OF COURSE IT WAS NOT AND IT COULDN'T BE.

THEY WEREN'T TRYING TO ILLUMINATE ANYTHING ABOUT JUDGE JACKSON.

WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS CREATING A PERFORMANCE FOR THE BASE BACK HOME.

AND FOR SOME OF THEM A KIND OF SIZZLE REEL FOR THEIR PROBABLE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS.

AS I WAS WATCHING IT WHAT IT CONTINUALLY REMINDED ME WAS I INTERVIEWED FOR A JOB IN A NEWSPAPER AND THE MINI WALKED IN THE DOOR THEY PUT ME IN A WINDOWLESS ROOM AND FOR THREE HOURS I IS WAS SUBJECTED TO A BATTERY OF TESTS, WRITTEN TESTS, PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTS, PERSONALITY TESTS, I ASKED WHAT ROLE THOSE PLAYED IN THE HIRING PROCESS, THE EDITOR SAID, NONE, THE WHOLE POINTS OF THE PROCESS WAS TO BREAK YOU DOWN, TO REVEAL WHO YOU ACTUALLY ARE.

THAT'S WHAT I FEEL THEY WERE TRYING TO DO TO JUDGE JACKSON.

THEY WANTED TO PROVOKE THE ANGRY BLACK WOMAN MOMENT TO SHOW THAT SHE HAS NEITHER THE TELL PEMENT OR THE DEMEANOR TO BE ON THE SUPREME COURT.

THEY KNOW THEY CAN'T KEEP HER OFF THE COURT BUT THEY WANT TO MAKE AN OVERALL STATEMENT ABOUT BLACK WOMEN AND TO SORT OF SHOW WHAT WAS LURKING BEYOND ALL OF HER QUALIFICATIONS BUT ULTIMATELY IT SAID FAR MORE ABOUT REPUBLICANS THAN IT DID ABOUT JUDGE JACKSON.

>> Crossley: SO RENEE LANDERS WHAT'S YOUR TAKE AWAY FROM OTHER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT THE BRUTALITY OF THE QUESTIONS AND THE POINT OF WHAT THEY WERE DOING, GRANDSTANDING BECAUSE IT WASN'T GOING TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING.

THEY OBVIOUSLY WERE SPEAKING BEYOND THE MEETING TO OTHER KINDS OF CONSTITUENCIES, BECAUSE SOME OF THEM ARE PLANNING TO RUN FOR HIGHER OFFICE EVEN SOME FOR PRESIDENT.

WHAT'S YOUR TAKE AWAY THEN ABOUT HOW WE SHOULD LOOK AT THESE HEARINGS, AND HOW SHE WAS TREATED, AND WHAT MAY BE TO COME, I GUESS?

SHOULD SHE BE ASCENDING TO THE COURT?

>> SO I THINK THAT THE HEARINGS JUST REFLECT HOW THE PROCESS HAS DETERIORATED OVER THE TIME.

AND I THINK REPUBLICANS WOULD SAY YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATS STARTED IT ALL WITH THE CONFIRMATION HEARING FOR ROBERT BORK, WHEN HE WAS NOMINATED FOR THE SUPREME COURT.

AND I THINK IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATION.

BECAUSE THOSE HEARINGS REALLY WERE ABOUT HIS STATED VIEWS ABOUT VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE LAW THAT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT IN HIS ROLE AS A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, HIS ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS?

HIS ATTITUDE TOWARD PEOPLE OF COLOR, HIS ATTITUDE TOWARD RIGHTS OF PEOPLE FOR REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM AND I THINK THOSE WERE ACTUALLY FAIR, THAT WAS FAIR TERRITORY FOR QUESTIONING.

AND HE REVEALED HIMSELF TO POSSESS NEITHER THE TEMPERAMENT NOR THE BROAD MINDEDNESS THAT WOULD BE A QUSKTS OR ARE QUALIFICATION OR ESSENTIAL FOR A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE.

I THINK SINCE THEN WE HAD SOME MOMENTS WHEN THE CONFIRMATION HEARINGS FOR JUSTICE GINSBURG, JUSTICE BRIE BREYER EVEN, JUDICIAL PHILOSOPHY AND THE ROLE OF THE JUDICIARY IN APPLYING THE LAW AND DECIDING COMPLEX QUESTIONS WHERE THE LAW DOESN'T CLEARLY HAVE AN ANSWER.

AND SO -- BUT THEN IT HAS BECOME MUCH MORE PARTISAN.

AND SO I THINK THE ULTIMATE EFFECT OF THIS IS THAT IT PLANTS A SEED IN THE MIND OF THE PUBLIC THAT DISCREDITS THE COURT.

THAT PROBABLY WILL REDUCE, IN SOME CIRCLES, THE MORAL A ASUASION, THE DECISIONS THAT THE COURT MAKES AND I THINK THAT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE ONE OF THE HALLMARKS, IN THE DECADES, IN THE DISCUSSIONS, 70s, EARLY 80s WAS THAT THERE WERE GREAT RESPECT FOR DECISIONS OF THE COURT EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE DIDN'T PARTICULARLY AGREE WITH THEM.

>> CALLIE CAN I SAY SOMETHING REALLY QUICKLY?

>> Crossley: UH-HUH.

>> I AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT RENEE LANDERS JUST SAID BUT SOME OF THIS IS ON THE NOMINEES THEMSELVES.

RENEE IS RIGHT, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME DISCUSSION, WE DIDN'T SEE ANY QUESTIONS OF SUBSTANCE FROM THE SENATORS BUT IN THE PAST WE HAVE SEEN THAT BUT WE HAVE NOMINEES JUSTICE GINSBURG, SOME OF THE OTHER JUSTICES WHO REFUSE TO TALK ABOUT THE SUBJECT AND SAY WELL, THAT MIGHT COME UP.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE MORE SUBSTANTIVE RESPONSES.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY CAN'T TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE THAT MAY BE CURRENTLY ON THE COURT'S DOCKET OR SOON TO BE ON THE COURT'S DOCKET BUT THE NOMINEES SHOULD TALK ABOUT FOR EXAMPLE, THEY HAD CLARENCE THOMAS WAS ASKED, WELL WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ROE V. WADE, THIS WAS 1991.

HIS RESPONSE WAS, WELL, I'VE NEVER READ IT.

THAT DOESN'T PASS A STRAIGHT-FACE TEST.

SO WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ASK THESE NOMINEES WELL OKAY WE UNDERSTAND YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE THAT'S COMING UP BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT A CASE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DECIDED.

ROE V. WADE, BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF ED, LAWRENCE VERSUS TEXAS, THOSE ARE ALL CASES THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS, THE SUPREME COURT IS NOT GOING TO SEE THOSE CASES ANYMORE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE OF THOSE CASES.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S MISSING RIGHT NOW IN THE HEARINGS AND FRANKLY I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE.

>> Crossley: I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THAT'S LOGICAL AND NOW, ANY OF THOSE CANDIDATES ON EITHER SIDE KNOWS IF THEY SAY ANYTHING, A, IT COULD COME BACK IN A PRECEDENT SITUATION AND B, THAT WOULD IMMEDIATELY KNOCK THEM OUT SO THEY'RE BOXED IN.

AND THAT'S THE FAULT I THINK, AS RENEE LANDERS WAS SAYING, OF OUR SYSTEM ALLOWING THIS TO CHANGE BUT HERE WE ARE.

I WOULD BE REMISS -- >> COULD I JUST SAY ONE THING ABOUT TRACEY'S COMMENT?

JUSTICE GINSBURG ACTUALLY DID ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT ROE V. WADE, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT SHE KIND OF SKATED AROUND SOME OF THE ISSUES SHE WAS ASKED BUT SHE DID ANSWER A QUESTION ABOUT ROE V WADE AND SAID SHE WAS UNEQUIVOCALLY GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COURT PROTECTED THE RIGHTS, REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM OF WOMEN.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

I WOULD BE REMISS DR. CECIL IF I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO DESCRIBE WHAT WAS THE COLLECTIVE PSYCHIC DAMAGE DONE BY ALL OF US COMMUNITIES OF COLOR WATCHING THIS AND WATCHING BRUTALIZATION, THE HOSTILENESS AND WATCHING HER STANDARD UP, HOWEVER SHE HAD TO -- STAND UP AND HOWEVER SHE HAD TO STAND UP AND NOT RESPOND.

FIRST LET ME HEAR YOU TALK ABOUT THAT AND THEN I WANT TO PLAY SOMETHING FROM SENATOR CORY BOOKER WHO TRIED TO ADDRESS THAT.

BUT FIRST YOUR RESPONSE TO THE PSYCHIC COLLECTIVE DAMAGE.

>> YEAH, I THINK YOU BRING UP A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT.

I'M SITTING WITH MY FAMILY WATCHING THIS.

IT IS ALL REALLY PAINFUL FOR US TO WATCH.

WE HAVE TO WITNESS THIS BLACK WOMAN WHO REPRESENTS MUCH OF AMERICA BE MISCHARACTERIZED AT BEST AND DEMONIZED AT WORSE.

SHE'S MADE TO BE INHUMAN.

THEIR ACTIONS REALLY SUGGEST THAT THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR, LIKE FEAR OF WHAT SHE MIGHT REPRESENT IN THE MINDS OF PEOPLE, MINDS OF MANY AMERICANS PERHAPS, AND WHEN WE HAVE FEAR, LIKE IT SHUTS DOWN PARTS OF OUR BRAINS THAT REALLY ALLOW US TO SOLVE COMPLEX PROBLEMS.

HAS PLENTY OF THOSE.

IT REALLY SHUTS DOWN OUR ABILITY TO WEIGH RISK AROUND DOES SO REALLY POORLY.

IT DOESN'T REALLY ALLOW US TO SEE OTHERS AS HUMAN AND WHEN ALL OF THOSE THINGS BREAK DOWN WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO TREAT EACH OTHER PRETTY POORLY.

SO WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THESE HEARINGS I GET TO SEE HER DAUGHTER, RIGHT BEHIND HER.

AS THE SENATORS ARE ASKING QUESTION AFTER QUESTION ABOUT CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND SUGGESTING THAT SHE SOMEHOW LIGHT ON CRIME THAT SHE'S BASICALLY A TERRIBLE PERSON.

DOING SO IN FRONT OF HER ADOLESCENT DAUGHTER.

THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'D NORMALLY DO TO OTHER HUMAN BEINGS BUT SHAME THEM IN WAYS OF THE SPECTACLES THAT WE GOT TO SEE.

I THINK EVERYBODY MADE A REALLY GOOD POINT FURTHER REMINDING US THAT THIS WAS MORE ABOUT PRIORITIZING STRATEGIC ADVANTAGE, POLITICAL STRATEGIC ADVANTAGE MORE THAN REALLY GETTING A SENSE OF HER JUDICIAL CAPACITIES, HER FOWBTS OF KNOWLEDGE AND HER TEMPERAMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE'RE SUGGESTING FROM MOST OF AMERICA THAT YOU COULD BE EX QUISIVE LIT CREDENTIALED BUT YOU HAVE TO BE BETTER THAN GOOD IN ORDER TO MAKE UP FOR ONE'S BLACKNESS OR MAKE UP FOR SOME OTHER ASPECT OF THEIR IDENTITY.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT I GET TO HEAR FROM THE KIDS, OR THE YOUNG PROFESSIONALS I SEE IN MY PRACTICE.

>> Crossley: NEAR THE END OF THE SECOND DAY OF RABID QUESTIONS, SENATOR CORY BOOKER MADE SENSE OF THE HISTORIC SENSE OF HER NOMINATION.

>> AND YOU DID NOT GET THERE BECAUSE OF SOME LEFT-WING AGENDA.

YOU DIDN'T GET HERE BECAUSE OF SOME DARK MONEY GROUPS.

YOU GOT HERE AS ANY BLACK WOMAN IN AMERICA THAT HAS GOTTEN ANYWHERE HAS DONE, BY BEING-- LIKE GINGER ROGERS SAID, "I DID EVERYTHING FRED ASTAIRE DID, BUT BACKWARDS AND IN HEELS."

>> Crossley: WELL, I CRIED DURING HIS WHOLE FEATURE.

IT FELT LIKE SUCH A RELIEF, RENEE GRAHAM.

>> IT FELT LIKE A TIME TO EXHALE, SUCH A TRIGGERING PROCESS WHEN YOU FINALLY GOT TO CORY BOOKER, HE MADE THOSE STATEMENTS, OBVIOUSLY THEY LEFT JUDGE BROWN JACKSON IN TEARS, AT THE SAME TIME, THERE WAS ALSO A PART OF ME THAT WAS TROUBLED NOT BY WHAT HE SAID BUT BY THE FACT THAT YOU WOULD EVEN NEED TO TELL SOMEONE WITH HER QUALIFICATIONS YOU ARE WORTHY.

YOU NEED TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT BECAUSE THE SOCIETY IN WHICH SHE LIVES AND IN WHICH WE ALL LIVE DOES NOT AFFIRM THAT.

THAT FELT A LIST DISHEARTENING TO ME.

I UNDERSTAND WHY HE DID IT AND I'M GLAD HE DID BUT IT DIDN'T SPEAK WELL OF THIS COUNTRY THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO TELL SOMEONE LIKE JUDGE JACKSON YOU ARE A GREAT AMERICAN AND YOU ARE WORTHY.

>> Crossley: AND I WILL NOTE SHE HAS ONE MORE GAUNTLET TO GO THROUGH.

SHE WON'T BE THERE BUT THE SENATE COMMITTEE WILL VOTE ON MONDAY.

AND PERHAPS ANYBODY HAS NOTICED THIS, BUT MONDAY IS ALSO APRIL 4th, APRIL 4th IS THE 54th ANNIVERSARY OF THE ASSASSINATION OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.

I JUST FIND IT KIND OF CHILLING THAT YOU KNOW THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING IN OUR -- IN ALL OF THIS HISTORY TO REFLECT ON AND WE CAN SEE HER JOURNEY AND SEE SOME OTHER THINGS HAD A HAVE NOT HAPPENED SINCE THAT TIME.

BUT IN ANY CASE -- YES GO AHEAD TRACEY.

>> YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT ABOUT HISTORY AND MARTIN LUTHER KING'S ASSASSINATION.

AND MANY OF THE FOLKS THAT WATCHED THIS EITHER AREN'T OLD ENOUGH OR DON'T REMEMBER.

THURGOOD MARSHALL WHEN HE WAS IN FRONT OF THE SENATE WENT THROUGH AN AWFUL LOT OF NONSENSE AND FRANKLY GARBAGE.

IT WASN'T QUITE THE SAME THAT KETANJI BROWN JACKSON WENT THROUGH BUT IT WAS ALSO EMBARRASSING AND THEY WERE ASKING HIM QUESTIONS THAT NO ONE WITH HIS QUALIFICATIONS AND HIS EXPERIENCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASKED.

THURGOOD MARSHALL COULD RUN CIRCLES AROUND SOME OF THE SENATORS AND IT WAS EMBARRASSING THERE AS WELL.

AGAIN WE DON'T HAVE THE COLLECTIVE MEMORY BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THURGOOD MARSHALL DID NOT SURPRISE ANYBODY BACK IN THE MID 60s AND WHAT HAPPENED TO KETANJI BROWN JACKSON SHOULDN'T SURPRISE ANYBODY TODAY EITHER.

THIS IS JUST HOW WE ROLL.

>> Crossley: THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO END THE BROADCAST.

BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO REMEMBER THAT.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING ME.

AND STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

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