♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Crossley: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT: THE OSCARS, DIVERSITY AND REPRESENTATION.

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

BIG OR RECORD-BREAKING FILMS IN 2021 OWE THEIR SUCCESS TO OPENING WEEKEND AUDIENCES THAT WERE MOSTLY PEOPLE OF COLOR, INCLUDING THE MONSTER BLOCKBUSTER, "SPIDER MAN: NO WAY HOME."

THAT'S ACCORDING TO U.C.L.A.

's 2022 HOLLYWOOD DIVERSITY REPORT RELEASED EARLIER THIS WEEK.

THE U.C.L.A.

REPORT BLUNTLY STATED, "PEOPLE OF COLOR KEPT THE STUDIOS AFLOAT THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS."

YET THE LACK OF RACIAL REPRESENTATION IS STILL EVIDENT IN FRONT OF AND BEHIND THE CAMERA, AND IN THIS YEAR'S OSCAR NOMINATIONS.

WHILE WINNING AN ACADEMY AWARD IS STILL COVETED, LOCAL FILM CREATIVES ARE ALSO LOOKING FOR OTHER KINDS OF INDUSTRY RECOGNITION.

GIVEN THAT #OSCARSOWHITE IS STILL A REALITY, DOES WINNING A GOLDEN STATUE OFFER A PATHWAY TO ADVANCEMENT FOR FILM PROFESSIONALS OF COLOR?

JOINING US REMOTELY: THATO RANTAO MWOSA IS A FILMMAKER AND HER FIRST FEATURE FILM, "MEMOIRS OF A BLACK GIRL" WON BEST FEATURE FILM AWARD AT THE 2021 HAMILTON BLACK FILM FESTIVAL, AND THE 2021 ROXBURY IS INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL AWARD; LISA SIMMONS, ARTISTIC DIRECTOR OF THE ROXBURY INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL; JOHN OLUWOLE ADEKOJE, DIRECTOR, WRITER AND ARTISTIC DIRECTOR AT THE BOSTON ARTS ACADEMY; AND SABRINA AVILES, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BOSTON LATINO INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Crossley: LET'S START THIS WAY.

LISA, ALL THE BUZZ, EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT OSKS AND OSCARS, JUST TO SET THE TABLE, THE HIGH IF WE CAN SAY THAT, THE HIGH OF REPRESENTATION AND STILL NOT FOR LATINOS, WHEN MOONLIGHT WON THE BEST PICTURE THERE'S BEEN A RETRACTION.

SO THIS YEAR OVERALL, THE REPRESENTATION FOR -- RACIAL REPRESENTATION HAS GONE DOWN.

FOR WOMEN, IT'S GONE UP INCREMENTALLY.

THAT'S JUST TO SET THE TABLE FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND.

IS THERE A SINGLE RECOGNITION, A SINGLE NOMINATION THAT YOU WOULD SAY SPEAKS TO WHERE THE OSCARS ARE NOW, FROM THIS 2022 OSCAR NOMINATIONS WHICH ONE WOULD YOU SAY IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE WE ARE NOW LISA?

>> OH MY GOSH I THINK -- I WOULD SAY POWER OF THE DOG.

I MEAN, I -- YOU KNOW, IN LOOKING AT WHAT WAS LEFT OUT, AND WHAT WAS -- WHAT HAS BEEN NOMINATED IS, YOU KNOW -- IS HARD TO ACCEPT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE LIKE A REGINA KING AND THE HARDER THEY FALL HAS BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE OSCARS AND POWER OF THE DOG THAT HAS RISEN AND IS RISING TO THE TOP OF EVERYTHING I THINK YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE OSCARS ARE RIGHT NOW AND IT IS NOT AN INCLUSIVE SPACE, IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS, YOU HAVE DENZEL AND WILL SMITH AND SORT OF THE REGULARS AND WOMEN ARE AT THE TOP OF THAT HEAP BUT STILL I THINK WE HAVE TAKEN A STEP BACK AND, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS NOT BEEN THIS RECOGNITION OF THE INCREDIBLE WORK THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE DOING.

YOU KNOW WITHIN THE INDUSTRY AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, ON STREAMING PLATFORMS AND PEOPLE AREN'T GETTING THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE FILMS ON THE BIG SCREEN AND WE'RE NOT GETTING THE OPPORTUNITY TO FLOOD, YOU KNOW, THEATERS AND THERE IS SO MUCH NOISE ON PLATFORMS IT'S HARD TO FIND CONTENT, AND SO I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT IT'S EXCITING TO SEE CODA BUT THERE IS IN THAT SPACE WHERE OSCAR IS SO WHITE.

>> Crossley: SABRINA I'M GOING TO GO OVER TO YOU.

BECAUSE ON ITS FACE IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IN TERMS OF LATINA REPRESENTATION, THERE HAS BEEN VERY LITTLE EVEN DURING THE YEARS WRIT SEEMED TO BE A HIGH POINT FOR OSCARS, WHETHER YOU CAN CAUGHT IT A HIGH POINT.

WHAT WOULD YOU PICK AS THE ONE EXAMPLE THAT SORT OF SPEAKS TO WHERE WE ARE AS FAR AS RACIAL REPRESENTATION AT OSCARS,.

>> I THINK EVERYBODY IS APPLAUDING THE FACT THAT GUILLERMO VENTORO HAS BEEN NOMINATED BUT HE AND HIS COME COMPADRES, HAVE BEEN, HE IS CLEARLY MEXICAN NOT TO UNDERRATE THEIR WORK, GUILLERMO DEL TORO IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE DIRECTORS.

BUT THE LATINX DIRECTORS, IT'S WONDERFUL THAT WEST SIDE STORY GOT THE NUMBER OF RECOGNITIONS, SEVEN NOMINATIONS, SPEAKS TO THE FACT THAT IT DID EVEN THOUGH IT WAS CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED IT DID SO POORLY IN THE BOX OFFICE.

AND NOW IT'S UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S ANOTHER FILM LIKE IN THE HEIGHTS THAT BECAUSE IT DIDN'T BRING IN THE BIG BUCKS IF YOU WILL, IT ONLY I'M SURE MAKES HOLLYWOOD A LITTLE BIT MORE HESITANT TO FUND THAT TYPE OF FILM.

AND I THINK THAT IT DOESN'T BODE WELL FOR US AS -- TO SEE THAT REPRESENTATION ON SCREEN.

EVEN THOUGH I THINK PERSONALLY THE FILM WAS SPECTACULAR.

>> Crossley: JOHN, SAME QUESTION TO YOU.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY POWER OF THE DOG BUT NOW I'M LEANING TOWARDS MACBETH.

>> Crossley: STARRING DENZEL WASHINGTON AMONG OTHERS.

>> I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT DENDEN CELL IS IN IT.

DENZEL IS I IN IT.

UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE ALWAYS REACHING BACK, WEST SIDE STORY, REACHING BACK TO GET FILMS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE BEFORE, INSTEAD OF FINDING NEW VOICES AND PUSHING FORWARD.

SAME THING EVERY YEAR, ALWAYS LOOKING BACK.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH LOOKING BACK IF THERE'S A NEW ANALYSIS FOR IT BUT WE HAVE TO START LOOKING FORWARD.

AND THERE ARE MANY OPPORTUNITIES BEING DROPPED EVERY YEAR BECAUSE OF THAT.

>> Crossley: ALL RIGHT.

WHER WOULD YOU SAY THATO WHAT WOULD BE YOUR EXAMPLE?

>> I AGREE WITH LISA AND ALSO JOHN.

I WATCHED MACBETH AND I COMPLETELY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT AND AS MUCH AS I LOVE DENZEL, I'M SURPRISED THAT IT GOT SOME NOMINATIONS.

POWER OF THE DOG, IT'S NICE THAT WHAT'S HER NAME JANE CHAMPION?

>> Crossley: YES.

>> IS NOMINATED AS A FEMALE BECAUSE AS A FILM DIRECTOR YOU KNOW WE WOULD LOVE TO CELEBRATE FEMALE DIRECTORS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I JUST FELT THAT THERE'S A -- YOU KNOW LIKE A REPRESENTATION IN TERMS OF PEOPLE OF COLOR.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE MOVIES THAT ARE NOMINATED I'M REALLY GLAD THAT KIM RICHARD HAS GOTTEN A RECOGNITION THAT IS GOTTEN BUT WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAY.

OUR FILMS ARE NOT -- I MEAN TO GET TO BEST PICTURE OR GET THE NOMINATION, THE STUDIO HAS TO BE BEHIND THE PICTURE.

WE HAVE TO GET FUNDING TO EVEN GET -- FUNDING FROM THE STUDIOS FOR US TO GET THAT WAY.

SO WE HAVE A LONG WAY BECAUSE WE'RE STILL UNDERFUNDED.

WE'RE NOT SUPPORTED.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT INDEPENDENT FILM MAKING HAPPENING BUT WE'LL NEVER MAKE IT TO THE OSCARS.

OSCAR IS ALL ABOUT POWER AND ALL ABOUT MONEY AT THE END OF THE DAY.

TO GET THAT NOMINATION, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PIECE ANYWHERE FROM 10 MILLION TO 20 MILLION OF -- TO CAMPAIGN.

SO WHEN WE DON'T VEEFN MONEY TO MAKE YOUR FILM AND YOU -- WE DON'T EVEN HAVE MONEY TO MAKE YOUR FILM, WHEN WE'RE NOT SUPPORTED BY STUDIOS THERE'S NO WAY OF JUST EVEN GETTING THE RECOGNITION YOU'RE GETTING.

SO ONLY THE FILM MAKERS THAT HAVE BEEN MAKING FILMS FOR OVER 20 YEARS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE STILL ON THE PODIUM.

WE'RE LOOKING AT STEPHEN SPIELBURG, WEST SIDE STORY IS NOW ON THE LIST OF BEST PICTURE.

I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS THAT GREAT TO BE HONEST.

I ENJOYED IT BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I JUST -- THE OTHER STORIES THAT WERE MORE DESERVING.

>> Crossley: WELL, YOU KNOW, A CUSTOM THINGS.

ADRIANNA DUBOSE, EVEN IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE FILM SHE'S BEEN NOMINATED.

SHE COULD MAYBE WIN.

SHE'S UP AGAINST I BELIEVE -- IS SHE IN THE SAME CATEGORY WITH ANGENU ELLIS?

THEY MIGHT BE IN THE SAME CATEGORY.

ANGENOU ELLIS PLAYED THE MOTHER OF THE VENUS STIRS AND KING RIPPED.

JUST WANT TO NOTE THIS IS THE NINTH NOMINATION OF DENZEL WASHINGTON, MAKING HIM THE MOST NOMINATED BLACK ACTOR EVER.

AND ALSO ONE OF THE FEW TO HAVE CROSSED OVER SEVERALTY DECADES OF ACTING.

-- SEVERAL DECADES OF ACTING.

THEY ARE GIVING THE NOTE TO TYPHOON SPIELBERG OF SEVERAL DECADES OF DIRECTING.

WE WOULD BE REMUST BY NOT NOTING JANE CAMPION MADE AN UNDIRECTED TO THE VENUS SISTERS, SHE DECIDED TO SAY THAT YEAH SHE ADMIRED THEM BUT SHE HAD TO COMPETE AGAINST MEN AND SO OF COURSE IT WAS TOUGHER FOR HER.

I'LL TAKE ONE RESPONSE TO THAT.

WHO WANTS TO RESPOND?

>> WHAT IS THE -- WE ARE CONSTANTLY DEALING WITH MICROMICROAGGRESSION, SORRY JOHN.

THIS IS SO INSIDIOUS AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE ARE CONSTANTLY FIGHTING LIKE THATO IS SAYING, IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO GET INTO FILM FESTIVALS, IT'S HARDER TO GET TO THE SPACE IN THE OSCARS AND HERE YOU ARE THERE AS A WOMAN LIKE CHAMPIONING WOMEN AND YOU HAVE TO PUT BLACK WOMEN DOWN, IT'S LIKE WE ARE TIRED OF THIS, YOU KNOW?

>> Crossley: YES, I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO STREEPENING.

THE STUDIOS ARE A LITTLE BIT SHAKEN IN THEIR BOOTS BECAUSE IN MANY CATEGORIES THE STREAMING SERVICES ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING IS NOMINATED AND THAT'S WHERE A NUMBER OF YOU NUMBERED OF YOU BELIEVE THERE IS MORE OPPORTUNITY EVEN THOUGH IT'S STILL NOT GOING TO BE EASY SO I'LL START WITH YOU JOHN.

IF THE STREAMING SERVICES, WIN A LOT THIS GO-ROUND WHAT DOES THAT DO IN TERMS OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR FOLKS OF COLOR IN THE INDUSTRY?

>> IF I WAS GOING TO PREDICT I WOULD SAY MAYBE 5% MORE THAN BEFORE.

THE PROBLEM IS, A LOT OF THESE FILMS ARE BURIED IN THE STREAMING SERVICE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF FILM MAKERS, A LOT OF FILM MAKERS GO THROUGH THE FILM FIXES THAT HAVE MADE EXCELLENT FILMS, THEY GET INTO ONE OF THESE STREAMING SERVICES BUT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PROMOTION, NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE FILM EVEN THOUGH THE FILMS ARE ON THESE PLATFORMS SO YOU DON'T GET TO SEE THE FILM.

THERE IS FILM MONEY INVOLVED, SOMEBODY HAS TO PROMOTE IT AND HAS TO BE UP THERE.

THE TOP 10 SNELT FELIX, PEOPLE LOOK AT FIRST YOU DON'T GO TALL WAY TO THE BOTTOM TO LOOK AT WHAT'S THE NEW STUFF.

SO THAT IS STILL A PROBLEM.

AND IT REQUIRES A LOT OF PR, IT CALLS FOR A LOT OF MARKETING JUST TO GET THOSE FILMS OUT THERE.

IT IS ENCOURAGING TO SEE THAT IS HAPPENING BUT IT WILL STILL INVOLVE A LOT OF MONEY.

>> Crossley: AND SABRINA YOU BROUGHT UP A DARK SIDE OF STREAMING IN THAT ITS COMPETITION WITH INDEPENDENT FESTIVALS WHICH THEN TAKES FOLKS OF COLOR WHO ARE BEHIND AND IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA AND HAVING THESE STORIES THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO COMMUNITIES OF COLOR PUSHING THEM OUT ACTUALLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T GET AS MUCH ATTENTION.

>> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK FOR US, THE PROBLEM WITH STREAMING IS NOT THE PROBLEM BUT, YOU KNOW, STREAMING IS EVOLVING TO BE SORT OF LIKE A HOLLYWOOD AGAIN SO THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES IF, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD -- WE AS FILM MAKERS WOULD ALL LOVE A NETFLIX DEAL BUT IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT HOPING THEY CATCH YOU AT THE FILM FESTIVAL.

IT INVOLVES A LOT OF BACK-ROOM TALK AND NEGOTIATION.

AND IN MANY WAYS YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF REPRESENTATION THAT CAN NEGOTIATE THAT DEAL IF AT ALL, NETFLIX WILL NOTICE THE FILM.

SO IT'S ABOUT GETTING IN THE RIGHT FESTIVAL, IT'S ABOUT GETTING THE RIGHT REPRESENTATION.

AND AGAIN, IT ALL REQUIRES A NETWORK OF PEOPLE WORKING BEHIND THE FILM AND A NETWORK OF FUNDING BEHIND THE FILM.

SO IT'S NOT JUST AS EASY AS APPLYING, YOU KNOW, OR PITCHING A PROJECT AT NETFLIX BECAUSE THAT'S THE -- OR ANY OTHER STREAMING PLATFORMS, YOU KNOW.

IT'S NOT AS EASY MAYBE AS IT WAS I DON'T KNOW TEN YEARS AGO WHEN THEY WERE GROWING THE PLATFORM.

NOW IT'S ABOUT CAN YOU GET SOMEBODY WHO CAN FACILITATE THAT NEGOTIATION.

SO THAT YOUR FILM AT LEAST GETS SEEN, LET ALONE PICKED UP BY A PLATFORM LIKE NETFLIX OR APPLE TV.

>> Crossley: I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T POINT OUT THAT IN 2020 AT THE HEIGHT OF COVID, A LOT OF THE STUDIOS PULLED THEIR MAJOR FILMS THAT THEY HAD SCHEDULED, THEY DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE TO SEE THEM AT HOME AND THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE A BETTER SHOT LATER, THAT DIDN'T WORK FOR SOME OF THEM BUT AS A RESULT OF THAT THAT MADE SPACE FOR THOSE FILMS THAT JOHN TALKED ABOUT, AND THAT IS HOW MINARI GOT THE ATTENTION IT GOT.

IT WAS BURIED AND THEY WERE LOOKING FOR WHERE IS A FILM WE CAN PUT ON THE AIR BOTH IT BEING A STUDIO FILM AND MINARI WHICH FOCUSED ON AN ASIAN FAMILY MOVING SOUTH, A SMALL SYSTEM STORY THAT MADE AN IMPACT ONCE THE PUBLIC COULD FIND IT AND SEE IT.

THATO, GO AHEAD.

>> THIS COULDN'T IS VERY HARD TO FIND, THE THING ABOUT INDEPENDENT FILM FIXES SO IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR, THE STREAMING SERVICES ARE SWEEPING IN AND PICKING UP THESE FILMS BEFORE THEY GET TO DO THE INDEPENDENT FILM CIRCUIT.

AND SO THAT IS PROBLEMATIC SO THEY'RE TAKING AND HOLDING ON TO THEM.

AND IT'S ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE, RIGHT?

AND SO IT'S BEEN MORE DIFFICULT FOR INDEPENDENT FILM FESTIVALS TO BRING IN AND TO SUPPORT AND TO PREMIER SOME OF THESE FILMS.

IT'S GREAT FOR FILM MAKERS THAT ARE GETTING THAT OPPORTUNITY.

BUT A LOT OF FILM MAKERS ARE NOT GETTING THAT OPPORTUNITY, WHICH IS WHY FOR I THINK FOR FILM MAKERS OF COLOR YOU KNOW FESTIVALS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT WAY TO GET YOUR WORK SEEN AND GET YOUR WORK KNOWN AND OUT THERE.

AND IT'S A SUPPORTIVE ENVIRONMENT.

IT'S DIFFICULT, HOLLYWOOD'S DIFFICULT AND I THINK WHAT AVA'S DOING IS GREAT IN SUPPORTING BLACK AND BROWN BIPOC FILM MAKERS, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT, I THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT SO WE CAN GET ELEVATED TO THE SPACES OF OSCAR AND OTHER PREMIUM AND PREMIER SHOWS, SO THAT WE CAN TAKE HOME THOSE PRICES.

>> CAN I JUST JUMP IN AND SAY SOMETHING?

YOU KNOW I WANTED TO ADD TO WHAT LISA IS SAYING.

FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS THIS MOVIE THAT GOT ALL THESE ACCOLADES AT SUNDANCE CALLED MIJA.

AND MIJA ALSO WAS I BELIEVE IN ANOTHER HIGH END FESTIVAL, CAN'T THINK RIGHT NOW WHICH ONE IT WAS.

BUT WE TRIED TO GET IT TO SCREEN DURING OUR SHARE STORY SERIES.

AND ALREADY, I THINK APPLE TV BOUGHT IT, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE PLATFORM.

BUT HERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THIS FILM TO HAVE AN AFTER-LIFE IF YOU WILL, IN THE FILM FESTIVAL CIRCUIT WHERE IT COULD HAVE NOT ONLY GENERATED A BUZZ, BUT MAYBE REACHED THOSE COMMUNITIES, THE LATINX COMMUNITIES, THAT SAID YES, I RECOGNIZE THAT STORY.

BUT AS WONDERFUL AS A STREAMING PLATFORM IS FOR THE FILM, AGAIN GOING BACK TO WHAT JOHN SAID IT WILL PROBABLY GET BURIED AND THEN BY THE END OF THE YEAR PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW WHERE MIJA IS OR IF IT EXISTS AND MISSED OUT ON HAVING THAT KIND OF COMMUNITY REACH AND CONNECTION WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT FOR US AND REPRESENTATION.

>> Crossley: NOW INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH AND THIS IS A CATEGORY DEAR TO MY HEART BECAUSE IT WAS ONE I WAS NOMINATED IN, FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN TO BE NOMINATED IN A DOCUMENTARY FEATURE CATEGORY.

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME IN ABOUT THREE YEARS WHERE FOUR OF THE FIVE NOMINEES ARE PERSONS OF COLOR AND THE FILMS ARE GENERALLY SPEAKING TO EXPERIENCES THAT WE WOULD ALL APPRECIATE AND BE BROUGHT FORTH.

MOST PEOPLE ARE FOCUSING ON QUEST LOVE'S SUMMER OF SOUL WHICH IS VERY FUN AND INTERESTING FILM.

MY COME COMPADRE STANLEY NELS AND OCCUR Y, ARE IN THAT CATEGORY, ATTICA AND JESSICA WAS IN THE FILM COMMUNITY PROJECT THAT IS RUN BY STANLEY NELSON.

SO THEY ARE BOTH IN THE SAME, THIS IS HOW WE -- THE COMMUNITY NEEDS ON EACH OTHER AND THE LAST ONE IS A FILM FROM INDIA CALLED WRITE WITH FIRE.

THE LAST ONE THE FIFTH ONE IS FLEA WHICH IS ALSO NOMINATEED IN ANOTHER CATEGORIES NOT IN COMMUNITY OF COLOR.

INTERESTING, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL DIRECTORS HE COLOR IN THAT CATEGORY, TRUE NOT FICTIONAL.

THATA WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

>> WHEN YOU THINK OF DOCUMENTARY FILM MAKING, THERE ARE A LOT MORE GRANTS AVAILABLE.

AND I THINK THAT INDUSTRIES ARE A LOT MORE OPEN TO SUPPORTING FILM MAKERS OF COLOR.

ACTUALLY STORIES OF COLOR.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT FILM MAKERS.

THERE HAS BEEN A 15 WHERE FILMS WITH BLACK SUBJECTS ARE DIRECTED IN DOCUMENTARY ARE DIRECTED BY WHITE FILM MAKERS FOR THE LONGEST TIME.

THAT IS A PROBLEM BUT THE DOCUMENTARY INDUSTRY IS BEGINNING TO RECOGNIZE THAT.

IT'S PROBLEMATIC.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT INDEPENDENT AT LEAST NARRATIVE FILM, AS A NARRATIVE AND ALSO NARRATIVE AND DOCUMENTARY FILM MAKER I DO FIND THAT THERE IS A LOT MORE MONEY AND SUPPORT IN NURTURING FOR FILM MAKERS OF COLOR.

MAYBE THAT'S WHY THERE'S SOMEWHAT A RECOGNITION IN THE OSCAR SPACE IT'S A LOT EASIER, THE INDUSTRY A LOT MORE SUPPORTS IT FOR FLIMENT MAKERS OF COLOR.

>> Crossley: WHAT YOU SAID FOR DOCUMENTARY SHORTLY THREE OF THE FILMS THAT HAVE SUBJECT MATTER THAT ARE RELATIVE TO COMMUNITIES EVER COLOR ARE NOT DIRECTED BY PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> THAT IS IN THE PUBLIC -- HAS BEEN A PROBLEMATIC PATTERN.

AND THAT'S BEEN GOING ON -- >> SORRY JUST TO JUMP IN FOR A SECOND.

IF YOU LOOK AT AFRICAN AMERICAN MUSIC, FROM THE BLUES TO JAZZ TO R & B AND HITCH HOP, HIP HOP, YOU CAN TELL A STORY WITHOUT EXPENSIVE THINGS AND THAT GENERALLY HAS BEEN DEVELOPING MUCH FASTER BECAUSE OF THAT.

WHEN WE COME TO NARRATIVE FILM MAKING NOT THAT WE DON'T HAVE TALENT BUT IT IS EXPENSIVE.

AND BEING ABLE TO MANIPULATE THE LITTLE RESOURCES YOU HAVE CAN ONLY GO SO FAR.

WITH DOCUMENTARY FILM MAKING THE GENRE IS OPENING UP SO MUCH THAT YOU CAN EXPERIMENT AND CREATE NEW STORIES WITH THEM.

THAT'S WHY WE'VE SEEN NEW FILM MAKERS GOING INTO THE DOCUMENTARY WORLD WHICH MAKES SENSE.

>> Crossley: JOHN YOU'VE SAID NOW THAT THE CAMERAS ARE SMALLER AND IT'S EVEN MORE DEMOCRATIZED, THAT WILL BE THE CHANGE MAKER ON FILMS AWILL BE CONSIDERED FOR OSCAR FOR EXAMPLE BECAUSE THEN THE MONEY IS GOING TO COME DOWN.

SPEAK TO THAT.

>> YES, SO NOWADAYS IF CAMERAS ARE VERY CLOSE TO EEP OTHER.

EVEN MY STUDENTS ARE SHOOTING WAY BETTER THAN THEY DID FOUR YEARS AGO.

THEY ARE SENSITIVE TO LIGHT, YOU CAN EXPOSE IT EASILY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO A RENTAL HOUSE TO GET A BIG LIGHT ANYMORE, THEY CAN JUST TELL THOSE STORIES.

SO HOPEFULLY BECAUSE OF THIS THEY GET MORE TRAINING.

BECAUSE YOU ARE HAVE TO PUT THE HOURS ON.

YOU CAN'T JUST TURN THE CAMERA ON AND TELL THAT STORY.

YOU HAVE TO START TICKING THOSE 10,000 HOURS A LOT EARLIER THAN WE DID SO YOU CAN START VERY EARLY AND PERFECT YOUR CRAFT AS YOU GO ALONG AND I THINK THAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY THAT HOPEFULLY A LOT OF THE YOUNGER FILM MAKERS ARE GOING TO HAVE FOR THE FUTURE.

>> WE'RE SEEING THAT TOO, WE'RE SEEING THAT IN THE FILM FESTIVAL SPACE THAT -- AND I ALSO THINK THAT IT'S -- PEOPLE WANT IT -- IT'S TIME FOR US TO BE ABLE TO TELL OUR STORIES AND BECAUSE IT IS NOW DEMOCRATIZED IN A WAY TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT THOSE, WE'RE TELLING PEOPLE GO OUT AND TELL YOUR STORY, THERE ARE SO MANY STORIES TO TELL AND NOT JUST FOR WHITE AUDIENCES OR NONB-IPOC AWRCHESES TO SEE, WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND THE LEADERS IN OUR COMMUNITIES, I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AND LEADERS ARE TAKING TO TAKING THEIR CAMERAS AND TELLING THOSE STORIES.

YOU'RE CONSTANTLY LEARNING SOMETHING NEW.

IS IT A LESS EXPENSIVE FORM?

IT CAN BE, AS THATO SAYS THERE'S MONEY AVAILABLE, BUT I THINK WE'RE IN A TIME OR A FACE WHERE THESE STORIES ARE NOW BEING UPLIFTED AND PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THEM AROUND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO JUMP ON THIS TIME TO DO THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY OF THOSE STORIES OUT THERE THAT NEED TO BE TOLD AND, YOU KNOW, FILM FESTIVALS AND FILM SERIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT CAN REALLY ELEVATE THEM TO A SPACE THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE BEFORE.

>> Crossley: THATOING-NO SABRINA GO AHEAD.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHICH ONE OF YOU JUMPED IN, GO AHEAD SABRINA.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY ALONG THOSE LINES WHAT'S HAPPENING IN DOCUMENTARY IS WE'RE GETTING THIS NEW GENRE CALLED HYBRID WHERE THERE ARE NARRATIVE TECHNIQUES BEING USED IN DOCUMENTARY TO TELL THE STORY.

TO ME AS A FILM MAKER AND ALSO WHAT I'VE SEEN AS A PROGRAMMER IT'S REALLY, REALLY EXCITING YOU KNOW?

BECAUSE IT'S ALMOST A WAY TO SORT OF SCRATCH THAT ITCH WHERE YOU KNOW THAT MAYBE PRODUCING A NARRATIVE IS ELOOUSIVE IN TERMS OF FUNDING.

-- ELUSIVE IN TERMS OF FUNDING BUT STORY TELLING IS STORY TELLING.

IF YOU TAKE A DOCUMENTARY FILM YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE THAT SKILL SET TO TELL THE STORY AND TO EJECT A LITTLE BIT FROM NARRATIVE MAKES THE JOHN ASO MUCH MORE EXCITING.

>> Crossley: I THINK WE THAT'S A GOOD PLACE FOR US TO END THIS PART OF THE CONVERSATION BECAUSE THAT'S THE END OF OUR BROADCAST, THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org ♪