>>THIS WEEK ON NEWSNIGHT, FLORIDA LAWMAKERS AND ACTIVISTS CALL FOR AN EXTENSION IN TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS FOR VENEZUELANS.

CUBAN AMERICANS REACT TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SHIFT IN POLICY ON RELATIONS WITH THE ISLAND.

AND CAN A NEW PROPOSAL ON PUERTO RICAN STATEHOOD SURVIVE THE U.S. SENATE?

NEWSNIGHT STARTS NOW.

♪ MUSIC ♪ >>HELLO, I'M STEVE MORT.

AND WELCOME TO NEWSNIGHT, WHERE WE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE BIG STORIES IMPACTING CENTRAL FLORIDA AND HOW THEY AFFECT ALL OF US.

JOINING US THIS WEEK JENNIFER MARCIAL OCASIO OF EL SENTINEL.

THANKS FOR COMING IN JENNIFER.

AND ALEXA LORENZO, REGULAR ON THE SHOW FROM WFTV, CHANNEL 9.

THANK YOU GUYS.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN.

>>YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

>>THANK YOU.

>>ALL RIGHT.

FIRST TONIGHT, AN UNCERTAIN FUTURE FOR FLORIDA'S VENEZUELAN COMMUNITY.

THE U.S. GOVERNMENT GAVE VENEZUELANS ALREADY IN THE UNITED STATES, TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS, OR TPS, LAST YEAR.

BUT THOSE PROTECTIONS AGAINST DEPORTATION ARE SET TO EXPIRE AT THE END OF THE SUMMER.

NOW COMMUNITY LEADERS ARE PRESSING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO EXTEND TPS, SAYING CORRUPTION, SHORTAGES OF FOOD AND MEDICINE, AND HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS ARE STILL RIFE IN VENEZUELA.

NEWSNIGHT'S KRYSTEL KNOWLES TAKES A LOOK AT THE ISSUE.

>>TPS IS SET TO EXPIRE ON SEPTEMBER 9TH.

I SPOKE WITH TWO VENEZUELANS ABOUT THE TPS PROCESS, AND WHY THEY LEFT THE COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

FOR VENEZUELANS IN THE UNITED STATES, FLEEING THE ONLY LIFE THEY'VE EVER KNOWN ISN'T EASY.

>>MY COUNTRY IN VENEZUELA, WE HAVE A DICTATORSHIP AND YOU LOSING YOUR RIGHTS.

AND EVERY DAY, EVERY MONTH YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE YOU COULD BE INCARCERATED.

>>WE NEED TO CHANGE.

WE NEED A BIG CHANGE.

AND ALSO THE SITUATION WAS AWFUL.

IF YOU THINKING DIFFERENT THAN THE GOVERNMENT, YOU GO TO JAIL.

>>ROBERT PETA SALAZAR HAS FILED PAPERWORK SEEKING ASYLUM IN THE UNITED STATES.

HE'S ALSO APPLIED FOR TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS.

CARLOS URQUIOLA IS ALSO WORKING ON AN ASYLUM CLAIM.

HE RECEIVED TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS LAST YEAR, PREVENTING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FROM SENDING HIM BACK, AT LEAST FOR NOW.

BOTH SAY THEY WERE FORCED TO FLEE THEIR HOMELAND FOR PROTESTING THE LEADERSHIP OF NICOLAS MADURO.

THEY SAY THAT UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP, FOOD, WATER, AND SHELTER, ISN'T GUARANTEED.

>>YOU'RE GOING TO BE OUT OF WATER FOR DAYS.

SOMETIMES YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO THE SUPERMARKET AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIND THE ITEM THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

AND WHEN YOU FIND IT, YOU'RE GOING TO BE WAITING THREE, FOUR HOURS IN THE LINE, JUST TO BUY ONE ITEM.

>>URQUIOLA SAYS GOING TO MADURO PROTESTS IN VENEZUELA MEANS HE COULD FACE REPERCUSSIONS IF HE EVER RETURNS.

>>I HAVE A COUSIN THAT WERE KILLED BY ONE OF THOSE GUYS.

>>SALAZAR SAYS GOVERNMENT ENFORCERS ATTEMPTED TO KIDNAP HIM, BUT HE WAS ABLE TO RUN AWAY.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY ARNO LEMUS SAYS TPS OFFERS PEOPLE LIKE URQUIOLA AND SALAZAR A TEMPORARY LIFELINE.

>>WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS, THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING A PATHWAY FOR THEM TO OBTAIN WORK AUTHORIZATION, DRIVER'S LICENSE, SOCIAL SECURITY, BASICALLY A WAY TO FORMALIZE YOUR STAY IN THE U.S. >>BUT, GETTING TPS IS NOT AS EASY AS SHOWING UP AND APPLYING.

>>MARCH 8TH, 2021.

AND THAT'S WHEN THE LAW WAS ENACTED.

AND YOU HAD TO HAVE BEEN PHYSICALLY PRESENT ON THAT DATE.

AND THAT'S THE CAVEATS.

>>NEWSNIGHT FIRST SPOKE WITH URQUIOLA IN 2019, AFTER HE'D FILED FOR ASYLUM.

HIS CLAIM IS STILL PENDING.

AND SO IS SALAZAR'S APPLICATION.

THIS PROCESS OFTEN TAKES SEVERAL YEARS AND APPROVAL IS NOT GUARANTEED, WHICH IS WHY ATTORNEYS RECOMMEND ALSO APPLYING FOR TPS.

MEANWHILE, URQUIOLA AND SALAZAR SAY THEY AREN'T SURE WHEN, AND IF, THEY WILL EVER BE ABLE TO RETURN TO VENEZUELA.

>>I MEAN, MY FAMILY IS STILL THERE.

MY MOM IS STILL THERE.

MY DAD IS STILL THERE.

>>WELL, I ASKED KRYSTEL IF THE IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY SHE TALKED TO BELIEVED TPS WILL BE EXTENDED FOR VENEZUELANS.

>>THEY DO THINK IT WILL BE EXTENDED, BUT NOBODY WILL KNOW ANYTHING UNTIL ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE THE TPS IS SET TO EXPIRE, OR EVEN TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE SEPTEMBER 9TH DEADLINE.

>>AND KRYSTEL, WHAT ABOUT POLITICAL LEADERS HERE IN FLORIDA?

WHAT ARE THEY SAYING?

>>SENATOR MARCO RUBIO SENT A LETTER TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY REQUESTING THAT TPS BE EXTENDED.

HE WAS ONE OF THE CO-AUTHORS OF THE 2021 TPS BILL THAT WAS SET IN MOTION.

>>KRYSTEL KNOWLES THERE.

>>JENNIFER, A LOT TO BREAK DOWN ON THIS ONE.

I MEAN, MANY VENEZUELANS FLED TO FLORIDA IN 2019 DUE TO THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC CRISIS IN THAT COUNTRY.

I MEAN, DO WE KNOW IF THE SITUATION THERE IS ANY MORE STABLE NOW?

>>I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S A VERY TOUGH, TOUGH QUESTION, RIGHT?

BECAUSE WHAT DOES STABLE MEAN?

RIGHT?

IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE A LITTLE BETTER THAN IT WAS WHEN THEY WERE FLEEING.

RIGHT?

AND COMING TO FLORIDA.

BUT THE SITUATION IN VENEZUELA IS NEVER GOING TO BE OKAY WHILE THEY ARE UNDER THIS REGIME.

RIGHT?

>>THEY'RE UNDER A DICTATORSHIP.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT IT'S NOT EVEN THE FACT THAT THE ITEMS ARE NOT AVAILABLE.

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE THE MONEY.

THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TELLING ME.

WE HAVE THE MONEY TO BUY BREAD, MILK, BUT THE ITEMS ARE NOT AVAILABLE.

YOU MAKE A LINE OF EIGHT, 10 HOURS.

AND BY THE TIME YOU GET THERE, THERE'S NO MORE RICE.

YOU'RE LITERALLY LIVING ON THE BRINK OF DESPERATION DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

AND PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME TO FLORIDA, TO THE UNITED STATES, THEY'RE NOT LEAVING VENEZUELA BECAUSE THEY DON'T LOVE THEIR COUNTRY, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE THERE.

THEY'RE LITERALLY FLEEING FOR THEIR LIFE, FOR A BETTER LIFE FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

EVEN TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE BACK TO THE ONES THAT ARE STILL THERE.

HE WAS SAYING, MY MOM IS STILL IN VENEZUELA.

IT'S KIND OF IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO GET GOOSEBUMPS, LISTENING TO THESE STORIES.

RIGHT?

IT'S NOT A SITUATION ABOUT, OH, THEY JUST WANT TO COME HERE AND LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM, AND WANT EVERYTHING HANDED TO THEM.

THEY'RE LITERALLY TRYING TO SURVIVE.

>>AND OF COURSE THE U.S.

RECOGNIZED JUAN GUAIDO AS PRESIDENT, BUT NICOLAS MADURO STILL SEEMS PRETTY ENTRENCHED.

>>EXACTLY.

YEAH.

THE U.S. HAVE ALWAYS RECOGNIZED GUAIDO AS THE ACTUAL LEADER OF THE VENEZUELANS.

BUT THAT ENTIRE, WE COULD... WE ALWAYS COMPLAIN ABOUT THE POLITICAL SITUATION IN PUERTO RICO.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.

RIGHT?

BUT IT'S NOWHERE NEAR WHAT VENEZUELA IS.

THEY HAD AN ELECTION, BUT MADURO DEFINITELY WAS LIKE, NO, I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

UNTIL THAT ENDS, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY STABILITY IN VENEZUELA, OR FOR VENEZUELANS.

>>I MEAN, ALEXA, SENATOR RUBIO HAD LED THE PUSH FOR TPS.

AND NOW HE AND SENATOR MENENDEZ FROM NEW JERSEY ARE SAYING THEY WANT IT EXTENDED.

WHY DO THEY SAY IT'S STILL NEEDED?

I MEAN, IS IT TO DO WITH THE CONDITIONS I GUESS ON THE GROUND?

>>YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THEY SAY THIS IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN THEIR WORDS.

THEY SAID THAT VENEZUELA IS IN DIRE NEED RIGHT NOW.

WE TALK ABOUT MADURO AND WE SAY THAT HE'S STILL IN POWER.

THAT'S SCRATCHING THE SURFACE.

THE GRIP IS SO STRONG THAT HE HAS OVER VENEZUELA.

AND RIGHT NOW, SENATOR MARCO RUBIO AND OTHER LAWMAKERS THAT ARE PUSHING FOR THIS TPS EXTENSION, THEY WANT IT TO EXTEND 18 MONTHS.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT IF THESE PEOPLE GO BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY, AND START RETURNING AND START LIVING BACK IN THOSE CONDITIONS, THEIR WORDS ARE THAT IT WOULD BE A VERY REAL DEATH SENTENCE FOR THEM.

THIS IS LIKE YOU WERE STRESSING ABOUT LIVELIHOOD.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT PURSUING DREAMS AND CAREERS AND FAMILY.

FOR MANY THIS IS LIFE OR DEATH.

>>YEAH.

I MEAN, WE KNOW THAT RUBIO HAD BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN DRIVING AT LEAST THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S POLICY ON VENEZUELA.

>>LET'S REMIND VIEWERS ABOUT THE REASON SOMEONE ALREADY IN THIS COUNTRY WOULD WANT TPS.

LISTEN TO THIS FROM IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY, BRIDGET BENNETT.

>>GETTING TPS, IT'S A GAME CHANGER.

WITH THE WORK PERMIT, THEY'RE ABLE TO GET THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, WHICH MEANS THEY CAN OPEN A BANK ACCOUNT.

THINGS WE TAKE FOR GRANTED, IT'S A BIG DEAL.

THEY CAN GET A CAR, THEY CAN GET CAR INSURANCE, THEY CAN GET THEIR DRIVER LICENSE, WHICH IS ONLY VALID FOR THE PERIOD IN WHICH THEY HAVE WORK AUTHORIZATION.

A LOT OF THINGS.

A LOT OF TIMES CLIENTS ALSO WORK UNDER THE TABLE, SO TO SPEAK, AND HAVING A WORK PERMIT ALLOWS THEM TO WORK ON THE BOOKS.

MEANING THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO HAVE TAXES WITHHELD BY THEIR EMPLOYERS, THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR HEALTHCARE AND DIFFERENT SERVICES.

IT'S A GAME CHANGER.

AND I THINK IF ANYONE QUALIFIES FOR TPS AS AN OPTION, THEY SHOULD ABSOLUTELY GO FOR IT.

>>JENNIFER.

I MEAN, IT CERTAINLY SOUNDS LIKE TPS MIGHT OFFER SORT OF AT LEAST A MODICUM OF STABILITY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE APPLYING FOR ASYLUM, WHICH IS DEFINITELY NOT GUARANTEED.

>>YEAH.

NO, DEFINITELY, IT'S LITERALLY WHAT SHE WAS SAYING.

IT'S A GAME CHANGER AND GIVES PEOPLE THAT SENSE OF SECURITY.

EVEN THOUGH IF IT'S MONTH TO MONTH, 18 MONTH PERIOD, WHAT VENEZUELANS HAVE BEEN TELLING US WHEN WE TALK TO THEM, THEY FEEL THAT YOU'RE LIVING DAY IN AND DAY OUT, ONE DAY AT A TIME, ONE FOOT IN FRONT OF THE OTHER, RIGHT?

TRYING TO GET TO MAYBE SOMETHING MORE PERMANENT.

BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING TEMPORARY.

EVEN THE NAME SAYS IT, TPS, A TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS.

FOR THEM, IT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING NEXT.

BUT IT DOES MAKE A HUGE CHANGE IN TERMS OF THEM BEING ABLE TO FEEL FREE, DRIVING AROUND, NOT BEING SCARED THAT I'M GOING TO BE DEPORTED, OR I'M GOING TO BE SEPARATED FROM MY FAMILY.

SO IT'S DEFINITELY A GAME CHANGER.

>>THERE'S OFTEN NOT MUCH SEPARATION BETWEEN THE GEOPOLITICS, U.S. AND LATIN AMERICAN RELATIONS AND FLORIDA POLITICS.

REPUBLICANS HERE HAVE TAKEN SOME HEAT FROM DEMOCRATS IN THE LAST YEAR FOR NOT SUPPORTING A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP FOR VENEZUELANS.

IS THAT STILL A BONE OF CONTENTION, DO YOU KNOW, IN THE COMMUNITY?

>>IT IS.

I MEAN, IT'S INEVITABLE TO TALK TO A VENEZUELAN ABOUT TPS AND THEN THEM MENTIONING HOW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OR EVEN MARCO RUBIO THAT HE'S PUSHING FOR THE EXTENSION.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT IT'S NOT ENOUGH IF WE KEEP EXTENDING TPS FOR A YEAR, FOR 18 MONTHS.

BUT AS I WAS MENTIONING BEFORE, IT'S NOT A PERMANENT WAY OF STAYING HERE.

AND MANY OF THESE PEOPLE, 18 MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD, THEIR SITUATION IS STILL GOING TO BE THE SAME IF THEY GO BACK TO VENEZUELA.

IF THEIR LIFE IS THREATENED NOW, 18 MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD, IT'S STILL GOING TO BE THE SAME THING.

>>WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO PUSH FOR, IS SOMETHING AFTER TPS, WHAT'S HAPPENING NEXT, A WAY OF GETTING TO THAT PERMANENT STATUS HERE.

AND IT HAPPENS IN ALL AREAS OF WORK.

I EVEN HAD A FREELANCER WHO WAS ON TPS AND SHE COULDN'T WORK FOR ME FOR OVER A YEAR, JUST BECAUSE ALL THE EXTENSIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING ALSO IN THE IMMIGRATION OFFICE, EVERYTHING HAS TAKEN FOREVER.

SHE WAS IN THAT LIMBO.

YES, TPS HELPS THEM BE ABLE TO WORK, HAVE THAT SOCIAL SECURITY, BE ABLE TO DRIVE.

BUT IT'S LITERALLY NOTHING PERMANENT, AND THEY STILL FEEL THAT ANY DAY NOW, THIS COULD CHANGE.

>>I MEAN, IT'S INTERESTING THOUGH, ALEXA, ISN'T IT?

I MEAN, THE POLLS HAVE SHOWN IN FLORIDA THAT VENEZUELANS WHO CAN VOTE HAVE BROADLY BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF REPUBLICANS.

THAT KIND OF SHIFTED A LITTLE WHEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION INTRODUCED TPS.

I MEAN, COULD THIS FOR VENEZUELAN AMERICANS BE AN IMPORTANT ISSUE WHEN WE COME UP TO THE ELECTION THIS YEAR?

>>YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER WHEN PEOPLE FROM VENEZUELA MOVE HERE, WHEN PEOPLE FROM CUBA VOTE HERE, PEOPLE EVEN FROM PUERTO RICO, THEIR GOVERNMENT IS SO DIFFERENT THAN THE WAYS OURS RUNS.

THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THESE PARTIES.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS STAND FOR.

THESE LEADERS, THESE LAWMAKERS ARE FIGHTING TO GET THAT UNDECIDED, UNREGISTERED VOTER, TO REGISTER AND CHOOSE THEIR PARTY.

THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THESE ISSUES, OF COURSE FOR THE PEOPLE, BUT ALSO WITH THE MINDSET OF HOW IS THIS GOING TO BENEFIT ME IN OFFICE?

THE POLLING, LIKE YOU SAID IN THE SURVEYS DONE, HAVE SHOWED THAT MOST FLORIDA VENEZUELANS DON'T THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN IS DOING A GREAT JOB.

THEY SAY OVERALL, THE JOB PERFORMANCE, THEY DISAPPROVE OF IT.

BUT THE FACT THAT THEY GRANTED TPS TO VENEZUELANS AND HIS SUPPORT OF OVERALL PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP, THAT IS KIND OF GETTING HIM A LITTLE HIGHER AND FORMING A STRONGER OPINION FOR THEM.

WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS, LIKE SENATOR MARCO RUBIO AND SENATOR RICK SCOTT, NOT 100% BACKING A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP FOR THEM LIKE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN DOES WANT.

THEY SAY THEY MIGHT STILL SUPPORT THOSE REPUBLICANS.

WE'LL SEE.

IT IS KIND OF A WAIT AND SEE, A WAITING GAME.

>>IT'S VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT DEPENDS IF WE'RE IN ELECTION YEAR, THEN YOU HEAR THE RHETORIC START BEING A LITTLE BIT STRONGER, RIGHT?

>>YEAH.

>>BUT MANY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE ALSO SAYING ON PAPER, EVERYTHING SOUNDS GREAT.

YEAH.

BIDEN WANTS TO DO SOMETHING, EVEN RUBIO IS PUSHING FOR THE EXTENSION.

BUT THEN WHEN IN REALITY, WHEN IT'S NOT ELECTION YEAR, WHAT IS HAPPENING?

THEN IT JUST STAYS IN THE OH, THIS IS ALL I'VE DONE AND THIS IS ALL I'VE SAID, PUSHING FOR TPS OR PUSHING FOR BENEFITS OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON.

BUT THE END GAME NEVER HAPPENS.

>>YEAH.

NOW WHAT?

>>WHAT'S RESOLVED OUT OF THAT?

NOW WHAT EXACTLY?

>>NOW WHAT HAPPENS?

YEAH.

WELL THEY SAY FLORIDA POLITICS IS NATIONAL POLITICS, ALSO INTERNATIONAL POLITICS AS WELL.

YOU CAN FIND A LINK TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY DOCUMENTS ON TPS FOR VENEZUELANS AND TREASURY DEPARTMENT INFORMATION ON SANCTIONS ON OUR WEBSITE, WUCF.ORG/NEWSNIGHT.

BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO TALK ABOUT CUBA, I WANTED TO MENTION AN IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT IN THE PUERTO RICAN STATEHOOD STORY, JENNIFER, WHICH YOU'VE BEEN ALL OVER.

U.S. HOUSE LAWMAKERS HAVE PROPOSED THE FIRST EVER BINDING PLEBISCITE ON THIS ISSUE.

WHAT WOULD IT ASK VOTERS?

>>THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT IT FOR DECADES.

I MEAN, SINCE I WAS A LITTLE GIRL, WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT WHAT THIS PLEBISCITE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SEVENTH ONE.

OKAY.

PEOPLE ARE VERY SKEPTICAL OF WHETHER THIS IS GOING TO BE THE DEFINITE ONE, WHETHER IT'S REALLY BINDING OR NOT.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT THERE'S NO CHANCE OF IT PASSING THE SENATE.

IT'S ANOTHER THING, LIKE WE WERE TALKING BEFORE, ON PAPER IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYBODY'S DOING SOMETHING, BUT IS THERE GOING TO BE AN END RESULT?

WE DON'T KNOW.

WHAT IT'S BASICALLY ASKING PEOPLE IS, THEY HAVE THREE CHOICES NOW.

IT'S GOING TO BE EITHER STATEHOOD, INDEPENDENCE, OR SOME SORT OF ASSOCIATION WITH THE UNITED STATES, BUT NOT WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, THAT IT'S DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ASK.

THEY WOULD SAY IT'S A COMMONWEALTH, OTHERS WOULD SAY THAT WE ARE JUST A TERRITORY, WHICH TECHNICALLY BY DEFINITION WE ARE.

RIGHT?

>>RIGHT.

>>THEY'RE KEEPING AWAY OUR STATUS QUO AND JUST FOCUSING IN, THIS IS THE END GAME WILL BE: YOU HAVE THREE CHOICES.

EITHER YOU WANT TO BECOME A STATE, YOU WANT TO BE INDEPENDENT, OR YOU WANT THIS JOINT ASSOCIATION, WHICH IS NOT REALLY DEFINED AND THEN IT'S IN THE PROCESS OF SEEING WHAT THAT WILL BE.

AND ONCE THAT HAPPENS, THEN THAT WILL BE THE DEFINITE ANSWER FOR WHETHER PUERTO RICO WILL BECOME A STATE OR NOT.

BUT IT DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK.

IT DEPENDS WHAT POLITICAL PARTY YOU ASK.

IT DEPENDS THE AGES OF THE PEOPLE YOU ASK.

IT'S VERY COMPLICATED.

>>AND WHEN IT GOES INTO THE SENATE, IT HITS THAT STATEHOOD OBSTACLE IT OFTEN DOES.

THE GOP GENERALLY TENDS TO BE OPPOSED TO STATEHOOD, NOT ONLY FOR PUERTO RICO, BUT ALSO FOR DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, FOR EXAMPLE.

THAT SEEMS LIKE AN INSURMOUNTABLE HURDLE.

>>THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS GENERIC SAYING OF, OH, REPUBLICANS DON'T WANT PUERTO RICO TO BECOME A STATE BECAUSE THEY VOTE MAINLY DEMOCRATIC.

BUT AS WE WERE MENTIONING BEFORE, PEOPLE IN PUERTO RICO ARE NOT NECESSARILY IN THE KNOW OF WHAT BEING DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN MEANS.

THEY HAVE SO MANY OTHER ISSUES THAT THEY NEED TO FOCUS ON, AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN POLITICAL PARTIES THAT HAVE THEIR OWN MESSES OVER THERE TO BE FOCUSED ON.

THAT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S NOT WHAT IS A PUERTO RICAN THAT VOTES MOSTLY DEMOCRAT.

>>IT'S LIKE EVERY ELECTION YEAR THAT WE'RE, OH, THE LATINO VOTE.

WHAT DOES THE LATINO VOTE EVEN MEAN?

EVERY LATINO VOTES DIFFERENTLY.

EVEN CUBANS IN MIAMI VOTE DIFFERENTLY FROM CUBANS IN ORLANDO.

IT'S SO BROAD THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS, THEY TEND NOT TO BE IN FAVOR OF PUERTO RICO BECOMING A STATE.

>>BUT THAT HAS A LOT OF ECONOMIC REPERCUSSIONS TOO.

LIKE, WE WILL TALK ABOUT PUERTO RICO BECOMING THE 51ST STATE.

BUT BECAUSE OF OUR SIZE, WE WOULDN'T BE NECESSARILY THE 51ST, WE WILL HAVE MORE SEATS IN THE HOUSE.

AND MANY OTHER STATES, WE WILL HAVE MORE BENEFITS IN OTHER SENSES.

THAT'S WHERE THAT DEBATE BECOMES OH, YOU'RE TAKING THINGS AWAY FROM THIS OTHER STATES, THAN TO BE ABLE TO INCLUDE PUERTO RICO.

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT THERE'S X AND Y AMOUNT OF SEATS.

YOU'RE NOT ADDING MORE.

>>WELL, YOU MENTIONED CUBA THERE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT CUBA NOW.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AGREED LAST MONTH TO RELAX TRUMP ERA SANCTIONS ON HAVANA, INCLUDING LIFTING LIMITS ON FAMILY REMITTANCES AND MAKING TRAVEL EASIER, WHILE MANY LAWMAKERS IN FLORIDA HAVE CONDEMNED THE MOVE.

>>BUT HOW DOES THE STATE'S MILLION AND A HALF STRONG CUBAN AMERICAN POPULATION FEEL?

I SPOKE THIS WEEK WITH GUILLERMO GRENIER, WHO CONDUCTS POLLING FOR THE CUBAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE AT FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY.

AND I ASKED HIM IF CUBAN AMERICANS ARE WELCOMING THE DEVELOPMENTS?

>>I'D SAY YES.

I THINK THERE'S A LARGE PORTION OF THE POPULATION THAT IS BREATHING A SIGH OF RELIEF THAT AT LEAST WE'RE HEADING NOW IN THE DIRECTION OF IMPROVING FAMILY REUNIFICATION ISSUES, WHICH WERE PUT ON HOLD BECAUSE OF THE FACT OF THE EMBASSY CLOSING AND CONSULAR SERVICE STOPPING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK THAT'LL GEAR UP SLOWLY, BUT I THINK IT IS HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>>BUT, THE CHANGES ARE NOT ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY MAKE A BIG DENT IN WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, AND ALWAYS WHAT THE U.S. ADMINISTRATION, SAYS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT CONCERNS, THAT IS THE WELFARE OF THE CUBAN PEOPLE.

>>PERSONALLY, I THINK THAT THE OBAMA CHANGES HAD AN INCREDIBLE IMPACT ON THE ISLAND.

IT WAS CREATING A MIDDLE CLASS.

IT WAS CREATING DEMANDS THAT CUBANS WEREN'T MAKING OF THE GOVERNMENT BEFORE THE MIDDLE CLASS STARTED BEING CREATED.

I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT MORE IS BETTER THAN LESS, IN THIS REGARD.

>>DURING THE OBAMA YEARS, CUBAN AMERICANS BECAME NOTABLY MORE RELAXED VIS-A-VIS RELATIONS WITH THE ISLAND.

DID THAT CHANGE UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP, DO YOU THINK?

>>OH, ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK THAT THE DATA SHOWS THAT.

WHEN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CAME IN, THERE WAS AN INCREASE IN THE SO-CALLED HARD LINE.

MORE FOLKS WERE AGAINST ANY ENGAGEMENT.

THE SUPPORT FOR THE EMBARGO INCREASED, WHOEVER DECIDES THE POLICY INFLUENCES THE ATTITUDES OF THE CUBAN AMERICAN POPULATION.

WE THINK, WELL, THE PARTIES ARE TRYING TO GET A GOOD READ OF THE CUBAN AMERICAN POPULATION'S ATTITUDES.

AND THEN THAT INFORMS THE POLICY THAT THE PARTY TAKES, OR THE WHITE HOUSE TAKES.

IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

WHOEVER ESTABLISHES THE RULES OF THE GAME, THE CUBAN AMERICANS WILL PLAY BY THOSE RULES.

NOW IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CHANGED THEIR OPINIONS ABOUT CUBAN GOVERNMENT.

THEY BASICALLY SAID, WELL, NOW, HOW WE'RE GOING TO WORK THIS, IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO INVEST IN CUBAN BUSINESSES.

WE'RE GOING TO INCREASE A MIDDLE CLASS.

AND CERTAINLY IF THERE'S A PROMISE THAT MIGHT BRING AROUND SOME CHANGE, A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL GET ON THE BUS.

>>HAVE WE SEEN A SHIFT IN ATTITUDE SINCE PRESIDENT BIDEN TOOK OFFICE, THAT YOU'VE NOTICED?

>>WELL, I THINK THAT THIS PRESIDENT HAS BEEN VERY CAUTIOUS.

I THINK THAT HE COULD ACTUALLY PUSH THE ENVELOPE A LITTLE BIT MORE AND PERHAPS SEE SOME BENEFITS.

NOW, I'M NOT SURE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WITHOUT A BROADER STRATEGY THAN U.S. POLICY TOURISM TO CUBA, WILL EVER GET THE CUBAN VOTE.

THE REPUBLICANS REALLY ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE THIS TURF UP IF THEY CAN HELP IT.

AND THE ONLY WAY THAT THE DEMOCRATS CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DENT IN THIS, IS BY PULLING AWAY FROM THE CONCEPT THAT CUBA IS THE ONLY CONCERN OF THE CUBAN AMERICAN POPULATION.

>>CUBAN AMERICANS ARE INTERESTED IN OTHER TOPICS, OTHER THAN U.S. RELATIONS TOWARDS CUBA.

AND SO IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

IF YOU TALK TO CUBANS ABOUT CUBA, THEY WILL TALK TO YOU ABOUT CUBA.

BUT IF YOU TALK TO THEM ABOUT TAXES, THEY'LL TALK TO YOU ABOUT TAXES TOO.

THEY'LL TALK TO YOU ABOUT HEALTHCARE.

THEY'LL TALK TO YOU ABOUT A LOT OF STUFF.

TRY IT.

YOU MIGHT FIND THAT YOU HAVE A MORE WILLING AUDIENCE THAN YOU AT FIRST PERCEIVE.

>>GUILLERMO GRENIER THERE FROM FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY.

>>JENNIFER, LET ME START WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.

I MEAN, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IN TERMS OF CUBAN AMERICAN REACTION TO THE EASING OF RESTRICTIONS ON CUBA?

>>I THINK THAT IT INTEGRATES A LOT WITH WHAT VENEZUELANS ARE GOING THROUGH.

RIGHT?

THEY'RE HAPPY THAT THIS IS HAPPENING, BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

IT'S NOT NEARLY THE SAME AS IT WAS WHEN OBAMA IMPLEMENTED THIS.

RIGHT?

ANYTHING THAT WILL HELP CUBANS ON THE ISLAND AND ANYTHING THAT WILL HELP CUBANS HERE, HELP THEIR FAMILIES OVER THERE, IT'S DEFINITELY WELCOMING.

RIGHT?

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IS IT ENOUGH?

IT'S NOT.

THEY'RE ALSO GOING THROUGH THIS DICTATORSHIP AND ALL THE SITUATION OVER THERE, THAT IT'S SO SAD.

RIGHT?

BUT, AT THE ENDING OF THE DAY, ANYTHING THAT WILL BE FOR THE BENEFIT OF CUBANS OVER THERE, IT'S DEFINITELY WELCOMING.

RIGHT?

IT'S COMPLICATED BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE HELPING THE GOVERNMENT THAT IS RESTRICTING ALL THESE THINGS AND MAKING ALL THIS POLITICAL, NEGATIVE SITUATIONS HAPPENING.

RIGHT?

BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING.

>>I MEAN, THAT WAS ACTUALLY A POINT THAT GUILLERMO GRENIER RAISED TO ME WAS, WELL MAYBE BY EASING THE EMBARGO, IT DOES HELP THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT NECESSARILY.

BUT IT ALSO HELPS THE CUBAN PEOPLE AND THAT ALLOWS THEM TO APPLY MORE PRESSURE.

>>AND THAT'S BEEN THE THING.

BY PUTTING ALL THIS EMBARGOES, YOU'RE TRYING TO HURT THE GOVERNMENT OR MAKING THE GOVERNMENT RETRACT FROM CERTAIN ACTIONS THEY'VE BEEN TAKING, BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE PEOPLE IS THE ONE THAT ARE SUFFERING OVER THERE.

DOING THIS HELPS THEM OUT A LITTLE BIT, GIVES THEM A BREATHER IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY CAN DO, AND THE INTERACTIONS THAT THEY CAN NOW HAVE WITH THE U.S.

BUT, THERE'S STILL SO MUCH MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

>>DO WE KNOW, IS IT POSSIBLE TO SAY, HOW CUBANS ON THE ISLAND ARE FEELING?

AND I KNOW I WAS THERE AFTER PRESIDENT OBAMA ENGAGED IN RAPPROCHEMENT WITH RAUL CASTRO.

AND THERE WAS A GOOD SENSE OF OPTIMISM ON THE ISLAND AT THAT POINT, THAT THINGS MIGHT BE CHANGING.

PEOPLE WANTED A HOME DEPOT TO REPAIR THEIR HOUSES AND THAT KIND OF THING.

I MEAN, DO WE KNOW HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT ANOTHER SWITCH IN U.S. POLICY?

I MEAN, THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME WHIPLASH GOING ON.

RIGHT?

>>IT'S HARD TO KEEP UP.

>>WHAT DO YOU THINK?

I MEAN... >>I THINK IT'S JUST SO HARD TO KEEP UP BECAUSE THEY FEEL, OKAY, THIS IS GOING TO WORK.

OKAY, WAIT, IT DIDN'T WORK.

OKAY, IT'S GOING TO WORK NOW.

OKAY, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK THAT WAY.

>>THEY GET USED TO ONE THING, THEN IT GETS SWITCHED UP AGAIN.

AND THEN OBVIOUSLY, THEY HAVE SUCH A STRONG GRASP OF, THEY TAKE OVER EVERYTHING, EVEN HOW CERTAIN PEOPLE THINK.

SOMETIMES, IF YOU'RE GETTING BENEFITS FROM THE GOVERNMENT, YOU'RE GOING TO BE PRO THE GOVERNMENT, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DEFEND THE THINGS THEY'RE DOING.

RIGHT?

BUT IF YOU'VE BEEN LIKE, THERE'S CUBANS THAT HAVE COME HERE WITH NOTHING AND THEY WERE RICH BACK THERE, BUT THEY TOOK EVERYTHING OUT OF THEM.

THEY TOOK THEIR BUSINESSES OR TOOK THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS, OR THEY TOOK EVERYTHING AND THEY HAD TO START FROM ZERO.

THESE PEOPLE TEND TO BE MORE, NO, WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING IS NOT OKAY.

BUT THEN IT'S SUCH A TOUGH SITUATION.

AND AS YOU WERE SAYING, BY THE TIME THAT YOU GET USED TO ONE.

>>WHAT'S NEW?

RIGHT?

>>YEAH.

YEAH.

>>DEFINITELY.

>>ALEXA, THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ENDED CUBANS' RIGHTS TO AUTOMATICALLY STAY IN THE U.S.

IF THEY REACH U.S., OR WET FOOT, DRY FOOT.

RIGHT?

>>YEAH.

>>I MEAN, DOES THAT SEEM TO HAVE CHANGED THE DYNAMIC IN TERMS OF MIGRATION FROM CUBA TO THE UNITED STATES?

>>AT THE START OF IT, WE WOULD SAY YES.

BUT RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE SEEING, IS WE'RE SEEING A LARGE WAVE OF CUBANS LEAVING THE ISLAND RIGHT NOW.

AND RESEARCHERS AND SCIENTISTS HAVE CRUNCHED THE NUMBERS, WORK TOGETHER AND LOOKED AT DATA AND SAID THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE LARGEST WAVE WE HAVE SEEN IN DECADES, FLEEING THE ISLAND.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW ARE FLEEING BY LAND, THROUGH MEXICO TO GET TO THE U.S. DATA FROM U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION SHOW THAT 35,000 CUBANS WERE AT THE U.S. SOUTHWEST BORDER IN APRIL ALONE.

AND THAT GOES ABOVE THE 2021 FISCAL YEAR IN ITS ENTIRETY.

SO TO SAY THINGS ARE AT A DIFFERENT RATE, ONLY KIND OF SCRATCHES THE SURFACE HERE.

>>BUT THAT'S THE THING.

IT HAPPENED WHEN TRUMP WAS TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A WALL, IT'S ALL THESE THINGS THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO STOP PEOPLE FROM LEAVING CUBA, FROM LEAVING VENEZUELA.

>>AND RISKING IT.

>>LEAVING ALL THESE PLACES.

WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT NOW THEY'RE RISKING THEIR LIVES EVEN MORE, CROSSING RIVERS, GOING THROUGH ALL, INSTEAD OF GOING ON A DIRECT ROUTE, NOW THEY'RE GOING THROUGH DIFFERENT CHANNELS, DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, DIFFERENT CHANNELS.

BUT IF THEIR LIFE IS IN DANGER, IF THEY NEED TO LEAVE, THEY'LL FIND A WAY OF DOING IT.

>>YEAH.

>>IT SEEMS LIKE THE CUBAN MIGRATION EXPERIENCE HAS BECOME A LOT MORE LIKE OTHER PEOPLE FROM LATIN AMERICA, THAT THEY SORT OF GO UP THE SPINE OF CENTRAL AMERICA, LIKE VENEZUELANS AND PEOPLE FROM SOUTH AMERICA.

>>I MEAN, I JUST WANTED TO FINALLY ASK YOU JENNIFER, ABOUT THE SUMMIT OF THE AMERICAS AND THE U.S. DECISION NOT TO INVITE THE LEADERS OF CUBA AND ALSO VENEZUELA, NICARAGUA AS WELL.

HOW'S THAT BEEN RECEIVED IN FLORIDA AND BY OTHER LATIN AMERICAN LEADERS?

>>I MEAN, IT'S BEEN CELEBRATED ALL OVER TWITTER AND ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

RIGHT?

AND IT GOES BACK TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING BEFORE, THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO CELEBRATE THIS DICTATORSHIPS.

YOU DON'T WANT TO CELEBRATE THESE GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE OPPRESSING THE PEOPLE.

RIGHT?

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO NOW BECAUSE IT WAS THE TIME AND MOMENT FOR THOSE INTERACTIONS TO BE MADE.

RIGHT?

TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND THINGS, SEE WHERE THINGS MIGHT GO, OR WHERE THINGS MIGHT CHANGE A LITTLE BIT.

IT'S BEEN ALL OVER THE PLACE, WITH SOME CELEBRATING IT, SOME SAYING THAT IT WAS MAYBE NOT THE TIME AND PLACE.

THEY'RE STILL SENDING OTHER PEOPLE, NOT THE TOP LEADERS ANYWAYS, SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT.

>>YEAH.

THERE ARE NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS FROM THOSE COUNTRIES PRESENT AT THAT MEETING.

FOR SURE.

WELL, YOU CAN JOIN THIS CONVERSATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WE ARE @WUCFTV ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND ALSO ON INSTAGRAM.

WELL, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS WEEK.

MY THANKS TO JENNIFER MARCIAL OCASIO FROM EL SENTINEL AND ALEXA LORENZO FROM WFTV CHANNEL 9.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN GUYS.

FASCINATING CONVERSATION.

>>THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>>AND YOU CAN JOIN US AGAIN NEXT WEEK HERE ON WUCF AT 8:30 ON FRIDAY.

FROM ALL OF US HERE AT NEWSNIGHT, TAKE CARE AND HAVE A GREAT WEEK.