AMNA NAWAZ: From our Bookshelf tonight, a revealing look at women in leadership and how they view and use their power differently compared to their male counterparts.

It's the focus of the latest collaboration from journalists Katty Kay and Claire Shipman.

I recently sat down with Katty to discuss their new book, "The Power Code: More Joy, Less Ego, Maximum Impact for Women (and Everyone Else)."

Katty Kay, welcome back to the "NewsHour."

Thanks for being here.

KATTY KAY, Co-Author, "The Power Code: More Joy, Less Ego, Maximum Impact for Women (and Everyone)": Amna, thank you for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, let's talk about power.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: You write, men and women don't even define it the same way.

What do you mean?

How do people see it differently?

KATTY KAY: So we wrote this book because we looked at the numbers.

Only 10 percent of CEOs are women.

Something like 27 of the world's odd -- 200-odd countries have female leaders.

And we just thought, this is not enough.

But we came across a piece of research from Harvard a few years ago which sort of turned it all on its head.

And that showed that actually maybe women don't want power.

AMNA NAWAZ: Don't even want it.

KATTY KAY: Don't even want it.

Women have more life values than men do.

We have more things we want to do with our lives, community, family, parents, children, all of those things.

And the costs of getting power are too high.

But there is something about power itself, that we don't define it the same way as men do.

Traditionally, power is seen as power over.

I have power over resources or I have power over people.

It's a competitive thing.

It's a zero sum game.

More power for you, Amna, is less for me.

That's the kind of traditional definition of power.

Women don't see it that way.

We're much more focused on the end result.

AMNA NAWAZ: You and your co-author, Claire, also write -- after your speaking to several subjects and academics and leaders, you also write this line that struck me.

You wrote -- quote -- from your own lived experience -- you're writing from that perspective as well -- "as two white women with decades of work experience who've benefited from considerable access to traditional power structures."

Why was that important to point out?

KATTY KAY: White women have a much higher access to power, to promotions at a higher rate than particularly Black women.

I think it's something like twice the rate of promotions of Black women.

And when you start looking at women of color, they tend to be lumped in these diversity programs into one group.

Latina women are much more often asked, where do you come from?

Asian American women are much more often expected to be nice and quiet.

So there are stereotypes around different groups of women.

And I think it's important that we acknowledge that no one woman is like any other woman.

But women get lumped into these groups and then sort of stereotyped in those groups, and the biases against them and the barriers to them getting access to power become even higher.

AMNA NAWAZ: You document the barriers that apply to women only in many of these industries, from office temperatures being set to a man's average temperature.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: I feel that every day.

Personal protective gear -- I never thought of this -- being designed largely around a man's body.

Things that are flawed by design.

KATTY KAY: Podiums.

AMNA NAWAZ: Podiums.

KATTY KAY: When did you ever stand on a podium that was the right height for a woman?

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: You also talk about this thing called the perfect woman peril.

What is that?

KATTY KAY: So, I think women - - in our book on confidence, we have documented the degree to which women tend to be more perfectionist than men.

But, actually, that comes from an expectation of perfection.

Women are often promoted on the basis of performance, men on the basis of promise.

So, that already sets the barrier.

We have to have done those things already.

We have to have run an M&A department, have had a posting abroad, been a manager.

Men are promoted often just because they have the promise to do those things.

When we expect women to be perfect, of course we're stacking the odds against their chances of having power.

AMNA NAWAZ: And this is something backed up by the data as well, right?

This isn't just... (CROSSTALK) KATTY KAY: It's all -- it's all data.

It's all research.

It's all science.

AMNA NAWAZ: You dig into the home life as well.

(CROSSTALK) KATTY KAY: We didn't expect to go there.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, mostly on heterosexual couples, because that's where many of the issues seem to be most acute.

But this part also fascinated me.

You wrote that the problem is sometimes also husbands.

Quote -- you write: "Women who make it to the top tend to do so in spite of having husbands with jobs of their own."

What did you find there?

KATTY KAY: Yes, we found -- one researcher who said to us, the biggest drawback for women is often not their bosses.

It's their husbands.

Marriages in the United States look a bit like the 1950s between men and women.

Women are still doing the vast majority of the childcare, the housework, the planning of the housework, the emotional labor, the cognitive labor, all of the research around housework.

A man who doesn't have a job in the United States does less housework than a woman with a full-time job.

The number of... AMNA NAWAZ: Say that again for - - a man without a job in the United States does less housework than a woman with a full-time job.

KATTY KAY: Yes.

I mean, stunning, right?

The number of stay-at-home dads -- I know you have a partner who stays at home, looks after your children.

He's sort of a unicorn.

The number of stay-at-home dads just hasn't grown very much.

And women are very good at many things, but we have not figured out how to put 36 hours into a 24-hour day.

And until we have partners at home who are doing as much as we need them to do, we can't get power outside of the home.

But, also, we flip it.

Men are a sort of being deprived of all of the opportunities that come from being fully engaged in caregiving and in their communities.

Women in many ways have more options at the moment.

We can be stay-at-home mothers, we can be full-time workers, we can be part-time workers.

All of those are socially acceptable.

But in our research, what we have found is that men are really still expected to be the breadwinner.

And when they're not, it's very difficult.

It causes complications.

And we want to change that paradigm.

We want to give men the opportunities women have and invite them into all of the richness that can come from being part of that caregiving society.

AMNA NAWAZ: We're speaking at such an interesting time too now, at the end of this pandemic, and we know millions of women were forced out of the work force, right?

But, also, on this, we're marking one year after Roe v. Wade was overturned.

And I'm curious, as you have been looking into all these issues, having these conversations, when you step back, holistically, how do you look at women and access to power right now?

KATTY KAY: I think this is a great moment for this -- for what were writing about.

We have come out of the MeToo movement.

We have come out of Black Lives Matter.

We have come out of COVID, which has completely upended the way we work.

And we have come out of the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and there is a moment of chaos where things are up for grabs and everybody is reexamining what works.

I look around the world at the moment, and the current model we have of power, I don't know about you, but it doesn't look to me like it's working so well.

So why not redefine it?

Why not take a look at what it takes to lead really well?

And our conclusion is, we don't need to remake women.

We need to remake power.

AMNA NAWAZ: The book is "The Power Code."

The authors are Claire Shipman and Katty Kay.

Katty, thank you for being here.

KATTY KAY: Amna, thank you.