- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, a photograph taken in the early 1980s challenged a stereotype and became a powerful symbol of black joy.

From a childhood moment that became part of art history to opening a bookstore in North Carolina designed to inspire a new generation of readers, it's a moment that comes full circle.

Coming up next, stay with us.

- Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

(upbeat music) ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum, I'm Kenia Thompson.

In the early 1980s, artist Lorraine O'Grady set out to challenge a harmful idea that black artists could not be avant-garde and that black subjects could not be photographed as joyful.

Her response was simple but powerful.

She and her friends set out to capture images that defied those claims in her 1983 performance, "Art Is."

One of those photographs, "Girlfriends Times Two," has become a powerful symbol of black joy.

Happy, carefree, and full of life.

Today, the image is part of the Studio Museum in Harlem collection.

It was featured in Times Square during Black History Month and continues to resonate with audiences decades later.

One of the young girls featured in that photograph is North Carolina resident Tawana Atterberry, whose journey since that moment has come full circle.

Today, she is the owner of a new bookstore in Nashville, North Carolina, the Capricious Literary Lounge, a space designed to create the same sense of possibility and escape that books once provided for her as a child.

Welcome.

- Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

- How is it to see yourself, we've got the book right here, so I know that we hadn't even gotten to the book yet, right?

But the fact that this image made the cover of the "Meaning Matter Memory," which is a collections or selections from the Studio Harlem and Museum, that's you, right?

- That's me.

- That's you.

- Yep, eight-year-old me.

- How does that feel to see eight-year-old you on the cover of this book and on that billboard?

- Right.

Oh, well, shocking.

- Yeah?

- Yeah.

I think I didn't fully understand the hype over the photo.

I just thought, okay, you know.

- It's just a picture.

- It's a picture.

It's a picture.

- Right.

- But it wasn't until I found out why it was taken that I understood.

So yeah, it was just shocking.

It still is, but like, wow, that's really me on the cover of a book?

It's amazing, too.

- So to recap again, Lorraine O'Grady, she was an artist at the time, a photographer.

She decided to grab a bunch of her friends after hearing the fact that black artists could not take avant-garde photos, and then more in particular that black people could not be portrayed as happy, living life, enjoying times.

So tell me about that day.

It was a parade.

- Yes, it was Harlem's African American Day Parade.

I don't remember all details about it.

I do remember the crowd.

I remember that there was a parade of people, but the frames and the pictures definitely stuck out.

I do remember holding the frame.

I remember someone asking first, could they take the picture?

And then I remember laughing or something after the picture was taken because that's my cousin in the photo, one of my cousins.

Actually, two of them are in this picture.

We don't say girlfriends, but two of those are family members.

She kissed me on the cheek, which was obviously not planned.

And I just remember laughing at that like, really?

Why would you do that?

- But it was a beautiful depiction of, I think, probably what your childhood, or part of what your childhood looked like, right?

Enjoying time with family and just living life.

Do you remember when you were young seeing images of other young black girls or young black boys smiling and happy?

Was that truly a challenge back then from your memories?

- Me and my friends, me and my cousins, we had our times where things were joyful and we were laughing, smiling, and playing.

But I grew up in the '80s, so we had shows like "A Different World" and "The Cosby Show" and "227."

You know, things like that.

So there were young black girls on those shows and they were showing some joys, but they were talking about real issues and things that were affecting the community at that time and everyday family issues.

So they were serious topics going on at the same time.

And I will acknowledge that they were working.

That was their job at that time.

So I don't know how much of that was pure joy for them.

But I do remember seeing, but there weren't a lot of images like prints.

They weren't just laying around.

You couldn't just pick up a magazine or-- - See yourself.

- Yeah.

You couldn't see yourself in that, that wasn't around.

- And then growing up in Harlem, part of your childhood, how was that?

- So again, the '80s, crack epidemic, abandoned buildings, graffiti, the whole thing, New York.

At the time, I didn't know any different.

So looking back, I can say, wow.

I've been through some stuff.

I mean, I remember going through some things, don't get me wrong.

But yeah, it was Harlem.

It was surrounded by black people.

- On the contrary, kind of growing up more here in North Carolina, those were the images though that were kind of given to us of bigger cities, of bigger spaces, right?

And so when you do think about the portrayal of what black life looked like, it didn't always appear positive.

- Right, yes, for sure.

- Many times we hear stories or scholars have written about how stereotypes can shape how we see ourselves, especially black women.

We see a lot of powerful images today, but how important is it for young black girls to see themselves in images that portray contentment, portray self-love, softness?

- Yes, I think it's extremely important.

Being able to see things like that helps you know that it's okay to also be soft, not always.

'Cause a lot of times black people are portrayed with attitudes, or young girls are portrayed sassy.

So to see, just like in the picture to me, it's like innocence, it's connection.

So to be able to see that, I think it's extremely important.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, it's important.

- So you had the chance, you went back to New York and you saw on the-- - Well actually, I didn't get a chance to go back.

- You didn't go back?

I thought that was-- - I wanted to, so bad.

But I did get video.

- Gotcha.

- And then a family member, they videotaped it, sent it to me, so I see a video.

And then I seen just the pictures of it.

And I mean, I'm pretty sure if I would've went back, it would've been like, oh my God.

But it was still like that for me.

To see it up there and realizing that others are looking at that and they're using it to portray joy.

That's amazing.

- That is amazing.

And so when we think about how this image surfaced, it surfaced when the studio museum in Harlem reopened.

So after about eight years of being closed to the public, it opened and in their reopening announcement video, your photo was actually included in that video.

I do want to take a look at the package that they shared for that opening because your photo was also in that video.

So let's take a look.

(upbeat music) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - How does, you know, seeing an image like that and images like those in a space like that museum, how important is that to have a space like that created?

- Extremely, extremely important.

I think, well, I moved down here in 2006 and things were already changing, you know, in New York period.

And then as I went back since, it's - almost don't recognize... - Right, gentrification has taken over.

- So a lot of areas that I grew up in, my schools, just almost can't get my bearings.

It's like, where am I kind of thing.

And I think having a place like that, that's capturing those moments.

It reminds me that I'm not crazy.

Those things were there.

That store on the corner, big mama's house, like those things were there.

And so it makes me feel good.

And I'm hoping that it does that for others.

Just so know that, yes, our history is not erased.

- It's not.

And, you know, locally, we've had conversation around monuments being taken down and statues being taken down to kind of erase the history.

But when we have spaces curated for us like that, right, it helps us retain our identity.

Who is the young girl in this photo today?

- The young girl that's for that photo today is a woman who's decided to embrace all of who she is, to do her best to not shy down or back off or wait to be invited to the table.

So kind of go ahead and get comfortable with being uncomfortable, but being uncomfortable and not being afraid to possibly make others uncomfortable while in her space.

But yeah, she's capricious.

- Yeah.

- So with that being said, this person who is now not waiting for someone to invite them to the table opened up her own bookstore.

'Cause as a young girl, this young girl, you loved reading.

- Yes.

- You loved to read.

- Yes.

Reading was a big part of my life.

I'm growing up and still is.

It helped with an escape from the everyday struggles that we're going through at that time.

So yes, reading is huge for me and opening up the bookstore was important for me.

I don't think I've always wanted to open up a bookstore.

It wasn't until my late, nope, early 40s that I thought it would be cool to own a bookstore.

- So it's Capricious Literary Lounge.

Tell us about the name.

- Okay, so Capricious, it can be taken in a negative way.

It can be taken in a positive way, which was in the positive.

And it means like whimsical, unpredictable, fast changing.

So my thought was, I want this to be more than just a bookstore.

I love reading, yes, but I also love community.

And I wanted to create a space that offered both.

And so we have different events and things as well as books, but you can also just come there and relax.

You can just serve tea, 'cause I'm a tea lover.

So you can also come and get a cup of tea, a little snack, and just relax, chill out.

It doesn't have to necessarily be where, you know, it's a whole bunch of reading all the time, but the books are there and the atmosphere is there.

- And it's in Nashville, North Carolina.

- Nashville, North Carolina, which is going towards Rocky Mount.

So it's not too far away from people, so which people are finding out.

- Right, so you've recently opened, but you have this vision of creating this safe space, I imagine, for kids in particular.

What kind of, I guess, space do kids need today?

When we were having a pre-talk before about, you know, the conversations that our kids need to have.

How are you contributing to that landscape?

- Okay, well, as far as early teens, mental health, I have a 14-year-old daughter.

She started a group called the Paper Stars, and they are for children 13 to 16.

And it's like a mental health support group to talk about issues that they are facing, from things of puberty to bullying, to just everyday life confusion, not really knowing what's going on and why they're feeling the way they're feeling.

So yes, we have that going on once a month, and we have a therapist that will be in the building so that in case something comes up and they need to be handled, we don't wanna open up people and just send them out.

So we have someone that'll be around to just kinda make sure everything is good before the children leave.

And yeah, so we're trying to help with that.

And then we also have a space for younger kids to come and just play and feel safe.

Even they can come, like I had one little girl, I came in and read.

She just sat down and read a book from beginning to end.

And I was just so joyful about that.

Like, yes, just sit there, it's okay.

I don't care, you don't have to buy it.

I just want you to enjoy it and feel safe doing so.

- Yeah.

- So yeah.

- And you know, I don't know how much of a hot conversation topic this is now, but for years we were talking about banned books.

And books being removed because we had our natural hair in the book or the character, maybe was of a darker skin complexion.

How are you addressing that representation in the books that you choose in your store?

- So I try to have an array of books showing, depicting different skin tones, hair textures, all of the above.

I had actually a Hispanic child come in who was like, "Look, mommy, that girl looks like me."

So it's, yeah, I just, I want children to feel seen.

- Yeah.

- And so we try to offer books that talk about all races, green color, just everything, 'cause it's important.

It's so important.

I remember like growing up, well, I read a lot of adult books when I was a kid.

- Yeah.

- Like "Color Purple," like "Lucky" by Jackie Collins.

Like, just, you know, things that I probably should have been reading at that time.

But they did help me see myself and they helped me understand and appreciate things about me and it gave me advice and solutions to problems that I probably couldn't talk to someone else about or didn't feel comfortable.

So I feel like books do that for children.

So it's really important.

- Another piece that does that is writing.

- Mm, yeah.

- And I know that writing is something that you love to do.

Is that part of maybe the vision for the lounge to have writing workshops and opportunities for?

- Yeah, that's definitely an option.

That's definitely something that we're considering.

The thing about being capricious is I like to try things.

So I wanna throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks, right?

So I'm inviting people like me to just try some stuff.

So yeah, writing workshops, pop-up cooking classes, do a little bit of it all.

- We hear of libraries, we hear of bookstores, but I don't know that I've ever heard of a literary lounge.

So what makes you different from a library versus a bookstore versus your lounge?

- Yeah, that's a great question.

I think most bookstores, well, boutique bookstores are similar in that way that it's a small setting.

You can come and just kinda relax.

But I think with libraries, you have to be quiet.

You have to return the book.

That's a big one.

But at the lounge, we play music in the background.

Nothing too racy, but some nice, settling music.

We serve snacks and drinks, and you can have a meeting there.

Kids can be over there playing in the little kids section to cooking with a chef to making body butter.

Another person.

We have to book refuge.

So for bookies that love to come in, they come and just have two hours of quiet.

Just read, no interruptions.

Good Lord, we're doing a festival coming up in May.

- Yes, there's a festival.

- Book festival.

- Tell me more about the festival.

What's that?

- So it's called Be Capricious Book Festival.

And so we're encouraging readers to come out and learn about new up-and-coming authors.

A lot of times, our favorites overshadow the ones that are, so I'm inviting people, come on out and add to your favorite authors list.

So that's what it's for.

It's for local authors, local artists, people that sell bookish things.

Come out and show people what you're doing so that they can learn about you and appreciate you.

- I know as a kid, I found joy in reading.

It was my escape.

I got to live another world, another person's life.

As adults, sometimes we lose that.

Life gets in the way, and we forget how to tap into that joy.

Would you say this is kind of the adult way of tapping into joy?

- Oh yes.

I mean, yes, definitely for me and hopefully for those that come and visit the space.

But yes, definitely, I found my joy in that way.

- How important is it to retain it?

And do you find that people try to say there's no space for joy today?

- Wow.

I'm pretty sure there's people that feel that way.

And it makes sense in a way because there's so much going on.

- So much.

- But it's so important to find joy in the little things.

Like even going back to the book and that picture and the girls, like I said, two of those girls are family members.

So I know what we were going through back then.

I know what our family's going through and the issues that we were facing.

But we were still finding joy in the moments.

So yeah, it's important to retain.

It's important to remember, especially for young kids, teenagers growing up, that trouble don't last always.

And it can get better.

And even when it seems that it's at its worst, you can find joy in the moments that hold on to that.

- Yeah.

I wanted to coin this black girl joy, right?

'Cause we're in Women's History Month.

But black boy joy, I think, probably has been coined more than black girl joy.

- Yes, black girl magic.

- Black girl magic.

You're right, you're right.

Black girl magic.

But that became a thing because black boys in particular weren't seeing themselves depicted in a positive light or manner.

- Yes.

- I know you talked about your daughter doing something at the lounge.

But what space are we creating for our black boys?

- That's an extremely great question.

It's very important.

That's an excellent question.

Well, the thing that my daughter is doing is open to boys.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, boys and girls.

That doesn't matter.

I would love to offer some type of programming for black boys.

I mean, I have sons.

They're just older now.

But I remember them growing up.

And I know how important that is for them to be able to see themselves in media, yes.

And not angry.

So that's where the black boy joy comes in at, right?

So yes, I would love to offer something that can make them feel seen too.

And help with that narrative.

- Have you had great partnership in Nashville with the opening?

I know that it was, I guess I saw the ribbon cutting for the business opening.

I didn't get to come, but I hope to come to the space soon.

But how has the, I guess the public kind of received the space?

- I feel like it's been well.

I feel like it's been going well.

We had a soft opening on New Year's Eve.

And then we officially opened in January.

And so far we've gotten a lot of traction.

It's still new.

- Yeah.

- Still new.

But I know that we're there.

We are finding that when you're in a smaller community, it's more personal.

So you have to go out.

So just posting on Facebook, just doing social media is not the only way to get to that smaller community.

That's a good way to get outside your city.

But it's gonna require more like going in, meeting people, shaking hands.

- And being in the community.

- Just being out there.

- Any partnerships with schools and libraries?

- Not yet.

The library, we will have, I just meet with them and we will have, for the book festival, the children's part will be at the library.

The children authors and activities will be at the library.

- Wonderful.

- So yes, they have been really welcoming.

Great with that.

But other than that, no, but we are working on it.

- Yeah.

- Like I said, we're still, this is all new to me.

I'm a new business.

- Yeah.

- Sorry, I'm a new business owner.

But yeah, we're still working our way through.

- Yeah, we had some images of the space.

I know that you, like you said, it's not like a standard bookstore.

There's play space for kids, tactile things that they can navigate.

How important are those things in these spaces that are surrounded by books?

- Oh, it's important.

'Cause they get to see like the narration of the book and they're drawing what they're seeing.

They are also feeling the warmth, the love for reading.

So even if they're not actually reading, they know that, okay, this is an option.

It is possible.

They're seeing other people sit there and read.

We have wiggle giggle story time.

So they're able to just be themselves and be free and still enjoy being read to.

- Yeah.

When we go back to looking at the studio museum in Harlem, and I think earlier, I really meant to ask the question, having spaces like that here or in Rocky Mount what does that do to a community when we have those spaces?

- I think it helps them, like we said before, see themselves.

It helps them know that they matter, that their stories matter, that they're not the only ones that are going through whatever it is that they might be going through.

And have a sense of pride about who they are and where they come from.

- And when we think about arts, I guess layering within the community too, how important is that?

Not just seeing yourself, but just having that creative outlet.

- Being able to read about yourself, being able to draw about yourself.

Yeah, those are just as important.

Being able to cook foods that are about your community, what you grew up eating.

So yes.

- And maybe that could be a cool way for you to incorporate arts in your lounge.

- Right?

I could see that being like an art contest with the kids.

- Yes.

- Maybe giving them the challenge of depicting what joy looks like today.

- I love that.

Thank you.

I'm gonna use it.

- So how can folks find out more about the lounge?

- They can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

It's all Capricious Literary Lounge, same handle.

They can also email us at Capricious Literary Lounge, but best way to do is come in.

- Just come on in.

- Come in, go see me.

- Tawana Atterberry, thank you so much.

- Thank you.

- I appreciate you bringing the joy today.

- No problem, thank you.

- And I thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.