♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Crossley: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT: "THE POWER OF NAMES."

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

FOR YEARS THEY CALLED HIM BARRY, THE ANGLICIZED VERSION OF HIS AFRICAN NAME-- BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA.

PRESIDENT OBAMA'S NAME EMBODIES HIS CULTURAL AND RACIAL IDENTITY AS DO THE NAMES OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS OF COLOR.

BIAS AND DISCRIMINATION BASED ON THE NAMES OF JOB APPLICANTS OF COLOR ARE WELL DOCUMENTED.

SO IS THE COMMON PRACTICE OF STRIPPING NEWLY ENSLAVED PEOPLE OF THEIR BIRTH NAME IN FAVOR OF ONE CHOSEN FOR THEM.

PLUS, THE OVERALL RESISTANCE TO RESPECTING BOTH CULTURAL NAMES, AND THE NAMES GROUPS CLAIM FOR THEMSELVES.

WHEN YOUR NAME EMBRACES YOUR HISTORY AND HERITAGE, ARE DELIBERATE MISPRONUNCIATIONS AND CO-OPTING RACIST?

JOINING US REMOTELLY.

ALSO THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE MARITA RIVERO, PRINCIPAL OF RIVERO PARTNERS-- MS. RIVERO IS ALSO THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY AND THE FORMER V.P.

AND G.M.

FOR RADIO AND TELEVISION AT GBH; SUSAN X JANE, PRINCIPAL AT NAVIGATORS CONSULTING; L'MERCHIE FRAZIER, DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION FOR THE MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY IN BOSTON AND NANTUCKET; AND JEAN-LUC PIERITE, PRESIDENT OF THE NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN CENTER OF BOSTON.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

SO I WANT TO START THIS WAY BRING HAVING EACH OF YOU GIVE ME THE BRIEF HISTORY OF YOUR NAME.

JEAN-LUC I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.

>> THANK YOU CALLIE.

MY NAME IS JEAN-LUC PIERITE, I'M NAMED AFTER MY GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHER.

MY MOTHER DECIDED THAT JEAN-LUC WAS A LITTLE BIT OLD SOUNDING AT THE TIME AND DECIDED TO GIVE ME SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE MODERN.

AT THE SAME TIME IT INVOKES THE CLONE YALT HISTORY OF LOUISIANA, THE HISTORY OF MY TRIBE OF LOUISIANA AND THE LEADERSHIP OF MY FAMILY.

>> Crossley: ALL RIGHT.

L'MERCHIE.

>> YES, MY NAME IS THE RESULT OF BEING NAMED AFTER TWO OF MY GRANDMOTHERS.

MY GRANDMOTHER, MATERNALLY WAS L'MERCHIE AND MY GRANDMOTHER PATERNALLY WAS ALBERTA.

LOOKING HOW THOSE NAMES VOLVED IT IS FOLLOWING A CREOLIZED LINK TO LOUISIANA, WEST VIRGINIA, VIRGINIA, AND FLORIDA.

SO THESE NAMES WERE CREOLIZED AS THEY BEGAN TO BEGIN THEIR LIVES AND IT WAS PASSED ON TO ME AS PART OF THE SYSTEM LEGACY AND NOW MY DAUGHTER'S NAME, HER MIDDLE NAME IS MY NAME JUST TO KEEP IT GOING.

SO IT'S AN EMBRACE OF OUR HISTORY.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

MARITA.

>> WELL, RIVERO IS MY AFRO-CUBE AND GRANDFATHER WHO CAME HERE AND STAYED HERE.

HE MERGED INTO AFRICAN AMERICAN LIFE IN THE UNITED STATES, MARRIED A WHITE WOMAN, SHE MADE UP THE NAME MARITA, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS SPANISH.

THEY SAID WHAT IS THAT NAME, IS IT SWEDISH?

I'D SAY THE BLACK PART OF MY NAME IS JOY, MARITA JOY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

THE MARITA JOY PEOPLE HAVE DISAPPEARED SO I'M NOW MARITA RIVERO.

>> Crossley: SUSAN.

>> I NAMED MYSELF AFTER A DIVORCE.

PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR NAME AFTER A DIVORCE, TO WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE.

I HAD A COUPLE OF NAMES I NEVER KNEW, BECAUSE I WAS ADOPTED, I HAD A COUPLE OF NAMES THAT WERE BEFORE MY TIME.

WHEN I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO, I CHANGED MY NAME AS MY MOTHER'S NAME AS MY LAST NAME.

I WANTED TO TAKE A WOMAN'S NAME AND I PUT THE X IN THE MIDDLE AS RECOGNITION OF ALL THE NAMES I HAD AND ALL THE NAMES THAT HADN'T BEEN KNOWN TO ME.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT, WHERE THESE NAMES ARE IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE OF COLOR.

JEAN-LUC I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU REFERENCE THE HISTORY OF COLONIZATION IN LOUISIANA AND YOU SAID REALLY WHAT YOUR NAME IS NOW, AND EVEN TODAY, IS NOT THE ORIGINAL NAME OF THE TRIBE.

BECAUSE OF ALL OF THESE PIECES AROUND WHO WAS SUBSERVIENT AND WHO WASN'T.

EXPLAIN.

>> I THINK THAT ACTUALLY WHEN WE LOOK AROUND AT THE LANDSCAPE EVEN, WHEN WE RECKON WHERE WE ARE MASSACHUSETTS WE HAVE PLACES LIKE SHAWMET, WE HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT INDIAN NAMES THAT PERSIST AND YET FOR OUR PEOPLES, FOR OUR FAMILIES, WE HAD TO ADAPT AND ADOPT COLONIAL NAMES.

NAMES THAT WERE MADE FRENCH, NAMES THAT WERE MATE ENGLISH.

SO DEFINITELY -- MADE ENGLISH.

DEFINITELY THERE ARE THINGS THAT -- IT KIND OF SPEAKS TO THE SORT OF CHEAPENING OF LIVES WHILE THE EXTRACTION OF RESOURCES AND LAND WAS THE MAIN THING.

SO WHAT RETAINS IDENTITY.

>> Crossley: AND SUSAN YOU SAY THAT THIS KIND OF SHAPING OF ONE'S NAME FROM OUTSIDE EXTERNAL FORCES AND IN YOUR CASE YOU GOT TO RENAME YOURSELF REALLY IS ABOUT REINFORCING BOUNDARIES OF WHAT PEOPLE, OTHER PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF YOUR GROUP OR YOURSELF, THINK IS NORMAL.

>> FOR SURE.

I THINK THAT HAVING ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT NAMES, THERE ISALITIES A MISMATCH BETWEEN HOW PEOPLE SAW ME, AS BY BIRACIAL BLACK WOMAN AND HOW PEOPLE EXPERIENCED MY NAME.

SO I THINK NAMES HAVE A REALLY POWERFUL PLACE IN HELPING OTHER PEOPLE TO DECIDE HOW TO TREAT US FROM THE MOMENT THEY MEET US.

>> Crossley: L'MERCHIE, SUSAN HAD SAID EARLIER SHE NAMED HERSELF, SHE CLAIMED HERSELF.

THERE IS A HISTORY IN THE UNITED STATES WITH BLACK FOLK TRYING TO TAKE BACK THE POWER OF THEIR NAME FROM COMING TO THESE SHORES BY ENSLAVERS AND BEING FORCED TO ACCEPT OTHER NAMES.

AND THEN MOVING TO COME UP WITH NAMES THAT REFLECT AT EITHER THEIR COMMUNITY IN SOME WAY OR THE AFRICANNESS.

FACTUAL TO THAT A LITTLE BIT.

>> YES, I THINK THAT THERE IS QUITE A SPACE THAT IS CLAIMED INTENTIONALLY, THIS INTENTIONALITY OF TAKING ON A NAME OR RENAMING YOURSELF.

AND THAT CAN BE HISTORICALLY EVIDENCED IN A WOMAN WHO ENDED SLAVERY IN MASSACHUSETTS HER CASE IN 1783, MOMBETTE IS WHAT SHE WAS REFERRED TO.

AS SHE WAS FREED IN THAT COURT CASE SHE RENAMES HERSELF ELIZABETH FREEMAN.

SHE IS ANNOUNCING THAT SHE FREE AND THAT IS HER STATUS AND THAT IS WHAT SHE WANTS TO BE KNOWN BY.

SO THIS CONSIDERATION OF THE SPACES THAT WE OCCUPY AND THE IENTITY POLITICS THAT ARE A MISS BECAUSE OF COLONIZATION SLAVERY AND ALL OF THE OTHER SPACES THAT ARE -- THAT WE ARE IN, AND DEFINED BY OTHERSFUL IT IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A REFERENCE TO YOUR OWN BIRTH RIGHT, YOUR RIGHT AS A HUMAN BEING, TO RIS THOSE RESIST THOSE FORCES OF OPPRESSION AND CLAIM YOUR SPACE.

I THINK AS WE GO INTO THE CONTEMPORARY TIMES, THIS IS AN ASSERTION OF PARENTS TO ASSERT THEIR CHILD'S LIFE, RESPECT, ALL THOSE THINGS WE THINK ABOUT IN TERMS OF BEING IN CONTROL OF OUR LIVES.

AND SO HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, WE CAN EVEN THINK ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE THE EVIDENCE OF FREDERICK DOUGLAS.

FREDERICK DOUGLAS, WASHINGTON BAILEY WAS THE FIRST NAME THAT HE HAD.

HE WAS BORN, GIVEN THAT NAME AND YET AS WE KNOW HIM, WE KNOW HIM AS FREDERICK DOUGLAS BECAUSE HE CHOSE TO CHANGE HIS NAME A COUPLE OF TIMES.

AND IT ASSERTS THAT RESPONSIBILITY OF YOU TO TAKE ON WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN A SHAMEFUL HISTORY AS A REPAIRATIVE HISTORY.

>> Crossley: SPEAKING OF THAT SHAMEFUL HISTORY AS IT WERE, I THINK ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL SCENES IN BOOKS AND TELEVISION WAS THE SERIES ROOTS, IN WHICH YOU ACTUALLY SAW WHAT THE TRANSFORMATION OF CUNT KUNTA KINTE ALEX HALEY'S ORIGINAL ANCESTOR BEING FORCED TO CHANGE HIS NAME.

HE WAS PART OF THE JOURNEY OF THOSE BEING ENSLAVED, ALEX HALEY SHOWED THAT SERIES.

IT IS A LITTLE TOUGH TO SEE, BUT THE SCENE IS PLAYED BY ACTOR LEVAR BURTON, KUNTA KINTE.

>> YOU GOT A NAME I WANT TO HEAR YOU SAY IT.

YOUR NAME IS TOBY.

YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN TO SAY YOUR NAME.

LET ME HEAR YOU SAY IT.

WHAT'S YOUR NAME?

>> KUNTA.

KUNTA KINTE.

>> Crossley: SO THERE IS THE EVIDENCE AND THERE WAS MARITA TO YOUR POINT, THERE IS THE POWER IN DEMANDING THE ACQUIESCENCE OF TAKING ANOTHER NAME.

STARTED, ROOTED THERE FOR MANY WAYS AND CONTINUES, AS WE ARE LIVING TODAY IN CURRENT TIMES.

AND YET, YOU GAVE A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHEN YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE WHAT MAY SEEM TO BE AN UNUSUAL NAME, THAT IS ATTACHED TO A PERSON OF COLOR, YOU LEARN HOW TO DO IT BY THE BASKETBALL PLAYER, YANNIS, LET ME SEE,.

>> ANTUCOMPO.

>> Crossley: ALMOST GOT IT.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THE POWER DYNAMIC BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

GOOD IT IS A POWER DYNAMIC.

WE SEE FROM SPORTS CASTERS AND SPORTS FANS THAT YOU CAN LEARN A GREEK NAME CARRIED BY A BLACK MAN IF YOU WANT TO.

SO THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN SIMPLY TOSS OFF, I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PRONOUNCE THE VICE PRESIDENT'S NAME, I'LL CALL HER KAMALA OR WHATEVER IT IS, AN EXPRESSION OF CONTROL, DECIDING YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THIS PERSON INTO YOUR WORLD.

I THINK NATION OF ISLAM, MOST FAMOUSLY ADDRESSED THIS BY SAYING WE DON'T HAVE THESE NAMES, OUR NAME IS X, LATER WE MIGHT BE GIVEN A NAME.

SO PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS STRUGGLING OVER THAT PIECE.

IT'S HEARTBREAKING WHEN YOU READ STORIES OF YOUNG PEOPLE.

AND WE ALL WERE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO COME BACK AT THAT.

WHO DON'T WANT TO CORRECT PEOPLE, WHO ARE PREPARED TO GO THROUGH TIME.

A YOUNG MAN CAME AND STAYED WITH US SEVERAL YEARS AGO, HE CAME AS EBB NEEZENEZER, WHEN HE CAME TO MASS HEART, THE ONLY EBENEZER WE KNOW IS SCROOGE.

CHRISTMAS CAROL.

FINALLY HE SAID TO HIMSELF, WAIT A MINUTE, MY NAME IS MATTE.

I'M MATTE, YOU FORGET THAT EBENEZER STUFF.

WHAT WAS IT ABOUT MATTE, THAT WAS SO DIFFICULT FOR THE BRITISH IN GHANA?

I KEPT LOOKING FOR MY NAME ON KEY CHAINS AND THE CUBS, THERE WAS NEVER A MARITA.

AND AFTER A WHILE I LIKED THAT.

SO THERE'S NO MARITA, YOU'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO SAY MY NAME.

AND I THINK THAT IS A POINT THAT PEOPLE COME TO AS THEY GROW AND EMBRACE MANY NAMES.

NICKNAMES, WHATEVER IT IS THEY ARE DEALING WITH, PLACE, GEOGRAPHIC PLACES, THEIR OWN FAMILY HISTORY, MARRIAGE, SINGLE NAME, YOU KNOW, MARRIED NAME, PEOPLE ARE NEGOTIATING THAT THROUGH A LIFETIME BECAUSE IT IS PART OF HOW WE IDENTIFY.

AND OTHER PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT TO BE IN CHARGE.

SOMEBODY MIGHT WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF HOW YOU IDENTIFY.

SO THAT'S -- IT'S THAT STRUGGLE.

WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHO YOU ARE?

>> Crossley: AND WELL LET'S JUST CALL IT THAT'S RACIST RIGHT?

BECAUSE I DON'T SEE THAT AS MUCH IN ANY OTHER PLACE.

I THINK ONE OF YOU INDICATED WELL HERE WE ARE IN BOSTON, WHEN IRISH CAME AND THEY WANTED TO KEEP THOSE TIES, THEY HAVE GAELIC NAMES, WE JUST ADJUSTED TO.

THAT IS A FUNNY NAME, WHY IS IT CELTICS, WHY IS IT CELTICS, YOU JUST WENT WITH IT.

WHEN IT'S ATTACHED TO FOLKS OF COLOR IT BRINGS UP SUSPICION OFTEN SUSAN AND THIS PLAYS OUT IN THE WORKPLACE AS WELL.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE KNOW THERE IS DISCRIMINATION FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF PEOPLE'S CONTACT WITH COMPANIES FROM THOSE NAMES ON RESUMES, THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NAMES THAT SOUND LIKE THEY BELONG TO PEOPLE OF COLOR, HAVING CHALLENGES, GETTING CALL-BACKS TO THE POINT THAT SOME EMPLOYERS HAVE STARTED TO 83th WHAT'S CALLED BLIND HIRING, WHERE THEY REMOVE THE NAME FROM RESUMES IN ORDER TO SCREEN THEM.

BECAUSE THE IDEA IS, THOSE NAMES ARE COLOR CREATE BIAS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, THEN WE'RE SCREENING OUT PART OF WHO PEOPLE ARE AND PART OF WHAT THEY'RE BRINGING TO THE WORKPLACE AS A VALUE, THEIR LIVED EXPERIENCES.

SO WE'RE REALLY STILL STRUGGLING IN THE WORKPLACE WITH FINDING WAYS OF REALLY RECOGNIZING PEOPLE AND ALSO CONTROLLING BIAS AT THE SAME TIME.

>> Crossley: NOW, IN THIS SCENE IN THE COMEDY BLASHISH, DEBATE WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT SUSAN, ENSUES AS DRE, PLAYED BY ANTHONY ANDERSON, CHOOSES A NAME FOR HIS UNBORN SON.

>> YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS ABOUT NAMING OUR KID DAVONTE ARE YOU?

>> YES, WHAT IS UNCONVENTIONAL WHEN THAT?

>> I GREW UP AS RAINBOW.

>> RAINBOW IS THE NAME THAT WHITE PEOPLE GIVE COCKER SPANIELS.

DAVONTE HAS CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE.

>> DAVENTE IS THE NAME OF LEAST IMPORTANT MEMBER OF JODECY.

>> AND THAT NAME WAS DALVIN.

THERE IS A REASON YOU DON'T LIKE DAVONTE.

>> YEP, BAW IT IS TOO BLACK.

>> Crossley: THERE YOU HAVE IT.

JEAN-LUC, I WANT TO BROADEN THIS BY TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE OF MASCOTS AND NATIVE AMERICANS, BECAUSE NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CO-OPTING CULTURAL HISTORY THROUGH NAMES.

AND A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING AROUND, SOME PEOPLE KNOW THE REASON IS BUT OTHERS HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING AROUND, WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

IT IS JUST A SPORTS GAME.

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

SO WHEN IT COMES TO CO-OPTING A NAME, WHY IS IT JUST AS HARMFUL AS DISMISSING OR MISPRONOUNCING?

>> CO-OPTING WITH THE CLAIM THAT IT'S DOING HONOR.

AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MASCOTS, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMAGERY SUCH AS WHAT'S ON THE CURRENT SEAL AND MOTTO, DUE FOR REVISION AFTER THE WORK OF THE COMMISSION, WE'VE SEEN SO MUCH OF OUR BODIES AS PEOPLE OF COLOR, REPRESENTED AS COMPOSITES, DECOUPLED FROM, DECOUPLED FROM NAMES.

AND SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SEAL AND MOTTO, WE'RE LOOKING AT NATIVE MASCOTS, WE'RE LOOKING AT A MISCONSTRUING OF IDENTITY AND WE'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT DO UNOUR COMMUNITIES HONOR.

>> Crossley: NOW SOMEONE IS GOING TO BE WATCHING THIS SAYING, OKAY, I GUESS I GET IT.

BUT IN THE END DOES IT REALLY MATTER, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY IS TRYING TO PRONOUNCE YOUR NAME, THEY JUST CAN'T GET IT, IT'S JUST TOO WEIRD TO THEM, SO CAN'T YOU JUST GET OVER IT, L'MERCHIE?

>> I THINK GETTING OVER IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH NOT ONLY YOUR INDIVIDUAL IDENTITY.

BUT ALSO A COLLECTIVE IDENTITY.

THE IDEA THAT THIS IS LOOKING AT WHAT JEAN-LUC HAS JUST ITERATED, THAT THIS IS A COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP HONOR, TO KEEP INTEGRITY, TO KEEP TRADITIONS IN PLACE, RATHER THAN IGNORE THEM.

BECAUSE, AS SUSAN SAID, THE VALUE THAT YOU BRING CAN BE IGNORED BY DISMISSING THE NAME.

SO WITH THIS IDEA THAT THE DISMISSIVE AND DISCURSIVE ATTITUDE ABOUT A SPORTS TEAM BEING NAMED IN A WAY THAT IS DESTRUCTIVE, IT IS RAIL VIOLENCE THAT TRADED ON -- REALLY VIOLENCE TRADED ON A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T IDENTIFY WITH THAT AS BEING PROPER TO UPHOLD THEIR TRADITIONS AND THEIR PRACTICES, IN THE HONOR OF WHAT THEY ARE ON THE EARTH.

SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A SPACE OF THE ESTHETICS BEING THE BEAUTY OF WHAT PEOPLE BRING IN THEIR CULTURE, IS A SPACE THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT BEING HOLLAND.

WE HAVE -- HONORED, IF WE LOOKED AT A CONTINUUM OF UGLY, WHAT HAS BEEN UGLY, BY EUROPEAN PEOPLE IS THE AFRICAN AND INDIGENOUS.

AND SO THE BLACK POWER PARADIGM WAS TO CHANGE THAT AND FLIP THAT WHOLE THING AND BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL BEING A MONDAY MONDAY MONIKER, BY SAYING THE BEAUTIFUL RESTS IN THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HONTD THEIR OWN TRADITIONS AND KEPT THEIR BEAUTY AND THEIRS THET-I IN PLACE.

SO I THINK THIS COLONIALIZATION OF THES THETTICS AND THE IMAGERY OF THAT -- OF THE ESTHETICS, THE IMAGES WE SEE ON TELEVISION AND OTHER PLACES, REFLECTS THAT MENTALITY OF POSSESSION AND THE RESPONSE TO THAT NOW BEING A RESISTANCE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO REALLY ADMIRE AND HONOR ABOUT THE CHALLENGE TO WHAT HAS BEEN THE TAKING OF PEOPLE'S NAMES AND THE MISUSE.

>> Crossley: MISUSE OF A NAME.

SO MARITA SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE FOLKS WHO SAY, THIS IS POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

WE DIDN'T WORRY ABOUT THAT, I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING TO SAY THIS AND THAT, SEEMS TO ME, I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH ALL KINDS OF FOLKS OF COLOR.

PEOPLE HAD NICKNAMES, THEY WERE MIKE, THEY WERE MOLLY, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

>> THE IDEA THAT YOU DON'T CHOOSE YOUR OWN NAME IS PREPOSTEROUS, ISN'T IT?

LET'S TALK ABOUT NAMES FOR A MINUTE.

LET'S SAY MY SON WHEN HE WAS TWO AND A HALF OR SOMETHING, I SAID, SOMEBODY IS GOING TO COME OVER, YOU GOING TO PLAY WITH AND CHRISTOPHER?

HE FELL OUT LAUGHING, HE DUNLTD OVER AND ROLLED ON A FLOOR, NEVER HEARD THAT NAME THAT FUNNY.

THE IDEA THAT THERE ARE GROUP OF NAMES THAT ARE SACROSANCT.

HOW MANY WAYS DO YOU SPELL SEAN IN IRELAND, PLEASE, EASTERN EUROPEAN NAME, SO THIS IDEA THAT ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE AGAIN CAN DECIDE THEY ARE GOING TO CHOOSE WHAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES, IS NOT WORTH LIKE IT'S COME ON.

I THINK EASIEST THING TO DO IS SIMPLY ASK SOMEBODY.

WE ALL DO THAT.

WE ALL DO THAT.

HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE YOUR NAME?

AGAIN, MIGHT BE, I JUST FORGOT WHAT YOU SAID, LET ME WRITE THIS DOWN.

HOW DO I SAY IT PHONETICALLY?

IF YOU INTEND TO LEARN A NAME YOU LEARN A NAME.

THAT'S WHAT YOU DO.

YOU DON'T KEEP MISPRONOUNCING SOMEONE'S NAME.

THE NEW PRESIDENT OF LINCOLN UNIVERSITY CHANGES HER NAME.

BEING ARE YOU INTRODUCED TO A COLLEAGUE, HE MUST HAVE PRONOUNCED IT FOUR DIFFERENT WAYS.

WHEN SHE STOOD UP TO SPEAK SHE SAID THANK YOU SO MUCH, THANK YOU DR. TIC OR IS IT TAC COLEMAN?

THE WHOLE ROOM JUST FELL OUT LAUGHING.

I THINK THIS IDEA THAT ANYBODY IS GOING TO START IGNORING WHO ARE, NEEDS TO BE SET ASIDE IN THE INTERESTS OF JUST GOOD MANNERS.

IF I SAY I DON'T WANT MY TEAM NAMED X AND I HAVE A WHOLE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE BEHIND ME AND PEOPLE SYMPATHIZE WITH THAT, WE WANT TO SEE THE INDIAN BONNET, FEATHER, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, CHIEF, ALL THE NAMES THAT GO ALONG WITH THE FACT THAT REDSKINS, ALL THAT, WE DON'T WANT THAT, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT, THAT HAS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED AND RESPECTED.

CREFS SUSAN WOULD YOU ADD TO THAT?

>> I THINK NAMES ARE ABOUT POWER.

SO WHEN WE THINK ABOUT USING NATIVE AMERICAN NAMES IN A COUNTRY THAT HAS PERPETRATED A GENOCIDE THAT REMAINS UNRECOGNIZED IT'S LIKE WE'RE SCOOPING OUT THE CULTURE AND REMOVING ALL THAT IT IS.

AND JUST TAKING AWAY THE PART THAT PEOPLE MIGHT WANT TO RETAIN.

AND I THINK ESPECIALLY AS WE THINK ABOUT AMERICAN CULTURE, IF YOU CAN SAY IT LONG ENOUGH, THEN PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE.

AND SO THE POWER TO USE NAMES IN WAYS THAT ARE REALLY DISCONNECTED FROM VALUES OR CULTURE ARE A WAY OF EXERCISING THAT POWER OF ERASURE.

SO I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT WHO HAS THE POWER TO MAKE THOSE NAMES, YOU KNOW?

MARITA TALKED ABOUT IN SCHOOLS, A STUDENT HAD TO CHANGE A NAME.

WE HAD TO CHANGE AN AFRICAN NAME OR ACHINESE NAME.

YOU NEVER HEARD OF PEOPLE IN AMERICA GIVEN A GUNNE OR KOJO NAME, THOSE ARE PRETTY EASY NAMES TO PRONOUNCE, INSTEAD WE LEARN HOW TO SAY WORDS LIKE KRZYZEWSKI.

>> Crossley: ARE WE AT A TIME, WHERE THERE HAS SHIFTED AS L'MERCHIE SAYS THAT IS PART OF THE RESISTANCE, JEAN-LUC, THIS IS MY NAME THAT IS NOT WHAT IT IS, YOU MAY NOT MAKE WE JOHNNY BECAUSE MY NAME IS JEAN-LUC.

>> CORRECT, BECAUSE WE'RE AT A POINT WHERE WE'RE TIRED OF THE ASSIMILATION AGENDA.

FOR NATIVE AMERICANS, THE UNITED STATES WAS ACTIVELY AT WAR INTO THE 20th CENTURY AND WE DIDN'T RECEIVE CITIZENSHIP.

NOT EVERY NATIVE AMERICAN WAS ABLE TO VOTE UNTIL THE 1970S.

OUR RELIGION WASN'T EVEN RECOGNIZED AS FREE UNTIL 1978.

SO NOW WE'RE AT A TIME WHERE WE'RE HEALING OUR WOUNDS.

REVITALIZING OUR TRADITIONAL KNOWLEDGE OUR CULTURE OUR LANGUAGES, AND WE'RE HAVING A NEW CONSCIOUSNESS OF IDENTITY.

DECOLONIZING OURSELVES, AND HOPEFULLY, WORKING TOWARDS SYSTEMIC STRUCTURAL CHANGE.

>> Crossley: AND THERE ARE NOW VERY SPECIFIC WAYS IN WHICH FOLKS OF COLOR ARE MOVING TO BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT THAT RESISTANCE IN FIGURING OUT HOW TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THE DISRESPECT AND THE ERAISE ERASURE, THIS IS THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND NOW STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪