The following is an original production of AZPM News.

Coming up today on The Press Room, ICE agents come under fire in South Tucson after pepper spraying observers.

Plus, critical budget cuts could impact safety issues in Tucson and the local economic impact of the Wildcats' Final Four run.

I've got an expert panel of guests to discuss these stories and more.

I'm David Lee and The Press Room starts now.

Welcome to The Press Room.

I'm AZPM News Director David Lee.

With me today we have Joe Ferguson of the Tucson Agenda, Paul Ingram of the Tucson Sentinel and, both from AZPM, Tony Perkins and Nick Rommel.

We are going to start off though with a look at some troubling video of an ICE incident in South Tucson.

A warning, the video may be disturbing.

Now that video was provided to AZPM from a community member who was also at the scene on Monday.

Paul, your thoughts just in general?

I know you were at a similar incident a while back with Representative Adelita Grijalva.

-Right.

And we see this kind of consistently I mean ICE is regularly used especially pepper spray against people, against observers in multiple incidents.

This incident is part of what's been a wider trend that we've seen nationally.

ICE operations in Los Angeles, ICE operations in Minneapolis, where when they're given opportunity, ICE agents will use force.

One of the things I think is sort of remarkable about both these incidents, not only that they use pepper spray against people, observers who are not really doing anything but recording or videotaping; in my case, particularly, it was photographing, was that this agency doesn't really want to respond to statements.

I asked for a statement on Monday.

I haven't gotten anything from ICE yet about what this means.

So there seems to be a lack of accountability in some ways about this.

And this makes sense.

I mean, the watchdog organizations that are around ICE and DHS have been mostly neutered.

-Joe, you wrote an article back in February about putting ICE on ICE.

And in it, you talked a little bit about four Pima County Board of Supervisors who were pushing back on officers on county property.

I guess this is looking to avoid something like this?

-It is, but we have a new wrinkle in this now.

The state has gone after the city for a similar ordinance and is now looking to withhold their state shared revenues unless they rescind this policy.

So the idea was to try to make sure and limit that city areas and county areas were safe for residents to recreate, to go to libraries, to go to parks.

But now we have this new political wrinkle where the state legislature is getting involved saying, no, you can't stop feds from coming on to what amounts to government property.

Nick, you did a recent series on the city of South Tucson where this happened.

Any response from them so far?

-Not too much.

I know my colleague Angela Gervasi has been looking to get one.

Maybe by the time this airs, there will be one.

But this is, South Tucson is the kind of place that you would expect ICE to be active.

It's the kind of neighborhood that we've seen ICE go into across cities in America, high immigrant population, et cetera.

This has been a busy week in terms of the city council in particular.

One of the agenda items, the possible elimination of two fire stations.

Nick, what's going on here and what are they talking about?

-Yeah, well, the city council is trying to close a $17 million budget deficit by the time they adopt next year's budget.

And one of the options that the city manager's office is presenting to council members is to close, permanently close, two fire stations.

They estimate this would save about $6 million.

So pretty good chunk of that gap.

At the moment, only two council members on Tuesday really came out swinging saying like, no, we should not do this.

So it seems like the majority of the council is at least open to it.

Someone who is not open to it is the firefighters union.

They came out to the council meeting that, their president there, several people from the department.

And although they struck a more moderate tone after the meeting since then, the union has posted on social media saying 'we cannot let this happen.'

So remains to be seen how they will try to prevent this from happening.

Paul, making tough budget decisions is always a difficult thing.

But this is one where we're really talking about possible public safety.

Sure.

And I mean, it comes down to I mean, the city has had had a budget problem for a while, and it keeps sort of solving that budget problem.

It's got a series of priorities that it's trying to do.

I mean, they're in the middle of the safety of a city initiative, trying to do a lot more for public transit, public safety, launching a series of programs with the county.

They're trying to solve all these different priorities at once.

And, you know, with this, the stations, I mean, they're, you know, some of the stations are a bit more moribund, they're old, their, you know, they're older stations.

So the question is, if they close one station, how did they fulfill that role?

And how they fulfill their larger priorities that they have at the same time?

-Joe, what were some of the other key issues that stood out from that meeting this week?

I know they talked about TEP.

They talked about TEP and their ESA agreement, which will bring about $2 million into their coffers, which is a positive for them.

But I think the thing that we really heard was that there's a serious discussion now about free fares.

And that's an $8.5 million price tag, which is even harder to work your way around of.

There's a lot of couch cushions you'll have to turn over to find $8.5 million annually.

So I think that's going to be a very big community discussion in the weeks to come.

-Tony, Attorney General Kris Mayes was in town this week to listen to TEP and consumers about it.

I think they're looking at about a 14% rate hike.

This is really going to affect consumers.

-Right.

And they also approved a special election for the control of the electric utility.

Now, it's interesting that a lot of climate researchers back this proposal to have a corporation run your city's electricity.

The other side disagrees.

They say, don't let a corporation run the rates and everything like that.

But the thing is that researchers found that it can take almost 20 years for someone to see the actual rates decrease.

So that's what the other side has going against it.

It's just going to be a really interesting debate to see just how the public goes on this issue.

-Without a doubt.

And not specific to the city of Tucson, but more in terms of Pima County.

Before we talk about some national issues, Joe and Paul, I know you've been covering the scrutiny over Chris Nanos, Sheriff Chris Nanos, and there was some more information with the Board of Supervisors this week and discussion about him behind closed doors.

What's going on that you can share?

-Sure.

So it really goes back to the 2024 election.

And the issue is, during the '24 election, Chris Nanos had a competitor.

She was running as a Republican, Heather Lappin.

And in October, just a few weeks before the election, he put out a press release saying that she had been put on suspension.

And he also suspended a sergeant who was part of a union who was also kind of running, helping run Lappin's campaign.

So what the county came and they had a kind of an investigation into what he did.

And they come, they came back and said, look, the things that he did was for political gain.

He used department resources.

And so there's been this kind of consistent criticism of Nanos and how he runs the department.

There's several other things that he's been criticized for.

But now the Board of Supervisors is coming to this thing and wanting to answer, him to answer questions about this and also issues with his resume, how he worked when he worked in this El Paso Police Department officer back in the 70s.

And all these things are kind of coming for the Board of Supervisors wants him to answer questions about this.

-Joe, how much of this also, though, stems from the investigation into Nancy Guthrie's missing situation?

The fact that especially at the beginning, he was all out in front of everything.

Did it just shine a light on him more?

-I think that you saw a light on him more, but they're not asking any questions about Nancy Guthrie in two weeks.

And I think that's important to show that they are building a case to possibly remove him from office.

They're not just trying to take political pot shots at him.

So focusing on the investigation that was done by a third party and whether or not he abused county resources for political gain is at the heart of a really interesting thing where dependin on his answers, that they might vote to get rid of him and install somebody else.

And so, I mean, his questions in two weeks are tantamount to his future now.

But as I understand it, and again, I'm new to Tucson, he's come under fire before.

Is this going to be any different, you think?

Well, he's been consistently under fire for a while.

Okay.

But what this, the question is, is because he's an elected official, there's only so many levers that the board of survivors are going to pull and the asking the question if he doesn't respond or he responds in a way that's problematic, they could remove him.

But that's really limited.

It's very different than say, like the Tucson Police Chief who really works for the board, for the city council.

It's different.

He's an elected official, so he has room to maneuver here.

But he is required by state law to respond to these questions.

He has to.

Okay.

Switching topics again, as the war in Iran continues, there was a last minute ceasefire agreement on Tuesday that avoided a mass bombing that President Trump had threatened.

Joe, the president, walked back his statement of, and I quote, "A whole civilization will die tonight."

What are people in Tucson that you're talking with saying about this whole situation right now?

I think that, you know, Tucson being a deep blue city finds that everybody is against this.

They don't understand why we're in the war.

Regina, I'm sorry, Grijalva wants to put that money towards social programs.

Didn't want the war to start at all.

Is opposed to it wants to bring Congress back to have a war powers resolution.

And then we have Trump supporters like Mr.

Ciscomani, who are staying very quiet about this entire thing.

Has not said a word, save from, he doesn't want troops on the ground, a statemen he made three weeks ago.

-Okay, Tony, at the start of the war, you spoke with Leila Hudson, University of Arizona professor of Middle East, Eastern and Northern African Studies, who suggested that the US may have miscalculations in some regards to this.

Has any of what she said during that interview still held up?

One of the specific things from that interview that continues to resonate now is Israel and Lebanon.

We discussed how that, you know, this was the start of the conflict and Israel was going through the same sort of game plan that was used in Gaza.

And we talked about how that, you know, this would continue on sort of separately from what is happening in Iran.

And that really is what the case has been just yesterday, the ceasefire was breached in a way from the aspect of Israel firing missiles into Lebanon, and creating a lot of damage and death and destruction there.

And that's something that, you know, the previous interview, you know, really pointed out that the problems in the Middle East go beyond just the conflict between Iran and the US in the Strait of Hormuz.

-Paul, you know, there is a strong military presence here in Tucson, Davis Monthan, the Air Force Base.

Are families getting more and more concerned about deployment?

Well, I think there always is concern about deployment.

And we do have some elements that are here that have been deployed elsewhere.

And there's possibilities that other units may be with these, they're using A-10s in the Strait of Hormuz, for example, not the squadrons that are based here yet, but that could change.

If the war widens, you'll certainly going to see elements and units that are from here go there.

If the, you know, on the other hand, the wire may suddenly kind of stall out and stop.

We don't know.

Yeah.

You know, but there's a lot that's happening all at once.

So for families that have people who are in the military, I mean, it's not just people who are going to be deployed and directly in combat, but we have lots of people who are at bases throughout the Middle East.

And those bases have been shelled by drones and by missiles.

So for families, yeah, of course, there's always an issue.

I mean, we're in the middle of a war, whether we call it a war or not.

-Yeah, Nick, our two senators are both against the war, they've come out against it.

Mark Kelly has said he's thinking about a run for president in 2028.

And according to some of your reporting, our other Senator, Ruben Gallego, is maybe changing his mind about it.

-Yeah, they're basically both signaling they're open to it now.

But what's interesting is that they criticize the war on Iran from different angles.

Mark Kelly really goes at it with like, we don't have a plan, we don't have an end goal, like this is not thought out and orchestrated correctly.

Whereas Ruben Gallego has really been going after what he calls or identifies as the kind of hypocrisy of Trump doing this saying like you promised Americans that you would lower the cost of living, reinvest in our own country.

And instead, you're doing exactly the thing you said you wouldn't do, or at least people thought you wouldn't do.

So there's a kind of, they're coming at it in different ways.

So if either of them decide to run for president, I wouldn't be surpris if those kinds of criticisms reappear.

-All right, now, changing topics.

It was a good, bad week, depending on how you look at it.

For the University of Arizona men's basketball team, they had a great season, you know, had a run to the Final Four.

Everything was really exciting.

They lost to the eventual national champion.

So that's okay, Michigan.

Nick, even though the team lost, it still was a win for the city?

-Yeah, I mean, I, I visited a few local businesses before the game just to kind of ask them what this has been like.

And it's like, you know, I just basically closed my eyes and put a finger on the map and went to the closest bar and they're all like, 'Yeah, we're packed.

This is great for us.

This helps us for months ahead, like when fewer people come in the summer.'

And also an interesting thing I hadn't thought about was people who come in for a game day, they keep coming, they become regulars, it kind of builds community well past the tournament.

-Paul, you and I were both at the McKale Center at ALKEME Arena watching.

I think they had, they sold 9000 tickets to be there.

The city and the university really came out to support them there.

Yeah, I mean, I was, I was really looking forward to that, to that watch party.

I went there to go take photographs.

And what I was really hoping for is lots of photographs of people being really excited and celebrating.

I think what we ended up is, I love the phrase from Irving Stone, "the agony and ecstasy."

I think at this point, like I grew up here, I've been a fan of bear down all the time.

But I also know that every time the U of A comes, that we may end up a lot more agony than ecstasy.

Tony, prior to the start of the tournament, on The Press Room, we did a special, you know, kind of NCAA look at the University of Arizona.

One of the things we talked about was the head coach Tommy Lloyd and whether or not they could get a deal done they did.

-Right.

And when you get to the week before the Final Four, both the men's Final Four and the women's Final Four, there is a coaches convention.

And during that week, there's a lot of discussion on the street about who's going to get the new contract going to go to the big time school.

And a lot of that reached critical mass with Tommy Lloyd, and give him credit.

He took advantage of that and made a deal to stay at Arizona and not go to North Carolina.

-Yeah, that was part of the issue, right?

North Carolina's job was open and a lot of people were speculating, he might want to go there.

That's a blue blood.

-Right.

Exactly.

And there's two or three jobs that open up every year.

And about that time, there's a lot of negotiation that goes on, you know, amongst the coaches and the athletic directors at the Final Four site itself.

And of course, Tommy Lloyd and the other, you know, coaches who are in the Final Four, they will just discuss to you about, 'oh, this is just a distraction.

I'm not going to pay attention to that.'

Yeah, they're paying a lot of attention to it.

And, you know, the outcome could have been could have been different.

But, you know, give again, give him credit, give his team credit that, you know, they decided to stay put.

-Joe, the run to the Final Four and just the year that the men's basketball team was good for visibility overall for the university.

You know, there are a lot of kids who will come here never play basketball.

But because of this, we'll say, hey, you know, I'll consider them for, you know, a place to go.

Does this help in kind of recruiting other students?

-I think so.

I think that, you know, a close-knit community like Tucson and its Wildcats really brings up something for people to join into and be part of when they are coming from a far-flung place that they haven't been to before.

So coming to the desert and finding that family often happens with rooting for the Wildcats.

Tony, also up the road in Phoenix, the women's Final Four and the championship game there.

I know this was a big thing for the state in terms of Arizona and also maybe personal for you.

You got to bring your daughter to it.

-Right.

The women's Final Four, I've been to a number of those along with the men's Final Fours.

It is really different, you know, because a lot more families go.

And, you know, there's a lot of corporate sponsorship and that kind of thing.

But any of the cities that are in the rotation that host Final Fours make their convention centers available and a lot of great free entertainment.

The day in Phoenix that we went to was the second day, you know, after two teams had been eliminated.

So there wasn't quite as much excitement because half of the field is gone already.

People decide to go home.

But it is still a huge economic driver for that city.

And for Phoenix, when you can say they're on a roll, you know, with Super Bowls, with Final Fours, they're in the rotation for men's Final Four to come up again in a few years.

So the more experience that a city has with this, the better they get at it.

And the better, as far as an economic impact it has.

-Okay.

Speaking of being on roll, it's time to talk a little bit about some space.

Without a doubt, the Artemis II launch and space expedition has been basically a success right now.

Tony, you cover science for AZPM.

The whole flight has been a huge deal for the space program in here as well.

Right.

And in Tucson, we pay a lot more attention toward the unmanned, un-crewed space program with the robotic explorers and that kind of thing.

The whole purpose behind Artemis II is to show what people can do there and that machines aren't able to do, what kind of observations humans can accomplish.

And Tucson, you know, they resonate with that as well.

That any kind of success in space really works toward what we do here in Tucson with the Planetary Science Institute that's based here with the U of A. And they're looking forward to, you know, the mission's complete success with the return of the astronauts and all the data that they're bringing back.

-I'll open this up for the table.

Some of the criticism of the program, if you will, is, you know, why are we spending money going up there at all?

Have you guys heard any of this?

What are people talking about?

-I mean, I feel like that's something that's always happened.

There's always been a criticism of how much money is spent.

But I also think it's probably important not only for, you know, it's for the nation, but also for, you know, humanity as a whole to be able to reach out, to be able to sort of push the boundaries.

And part of that means sending people who got really good at sending robots to Mars, we've been really successful.

But also there's something about having a person, even just taking a photo of the earth and really like being, showing that we're all part of one place.

-Nick?

There's just a fascination to it, I guess.

I mean, in our newsroom when the launch was happening, everyone just drifted away from their desks and started watching.

You know, there's just something about it that continues to draw people in, even though it's been done before by now.

-Well, the other thing too is, I mean, you've got NASA who's doing it, and then you've got some, you know, private companies trying to help out with the program, which could make a big difference in terms of actually landing somebody.

I think that the idea is to get somebody onto the moon by what, 2028?

-Right.

And this mission really does show the contrast between a public, you know, space program and a private space program.

And people for the first time can really see that.

There's a risk involved in both cases, but people don't see that much risk in SpaceX doing it as much as NASA's doing it.

NASA is more like, it's us.

It is, you know, it's the people, you know, it's the, well, of course, it's the federal government, it's an agency.

Whereas SpaceX is tied to one person, it's tied to Elon Musk a lot, but, you know, it's a private corporation.

There's going to be a lot more cheerleading for NASA.

And I think that's what we're seeing this week too.

-Joe, thoughts in terms of whether or not the space program should continue in doing these kind of launches?

-Of course.

We've, for centuries, we've looked up at the stars and wondered when it would be our turn.

And for everybody at this table, we have a much better chance of being on a NASA rocket than we do being part of a billionaire space program.

So I think, you know, it inspires us.

And so to see NASA have a successful mission like this shows that we have a bright future ahead of travel for the entire country, not just for a chosen few.

-But for the record, I'd stay on Earth.

-Well, you know, one of the things that we do is always a viewer question each week, you can send in your question to azpm.org slash press room, or you can comment on YouTube or our Facebook channel as well.

And we'll pull one of them, open it up to the table and ask it.

This week's viewer question comes to us from a Facebook user, Deborah Wayne, regarding the reporting, Nick, that you had from the city council: "Why don't we quit spending money on big SUVs for the police?

Not very smart closing fire stations."

Can't answer that immediately.

But what I can say is that, and maybe Joe can add to this, but the mayor made very clear that there are extra investments in the police already earmarked in the new budget.

So police seems to be more of a priority right now.

Joe, I've seen them do pull overs and, you know, putting two people in the back, making sure that the officer has a partner in the front seat.

I think these SUVs are pretty common and pretty practical for when you have to make arrests, because it's not always just one person.

Sometimes it's three or four people that need to go downtown.

And then Paul, it doesn't simply come down to SUVs versus fire stations.

No.

I mean, one thing to keep in mind is that the cost of the SUVs, of the Ford Explorers that they're mostly using, is not substantially different than what it costs to buy the old interceptors at this point.

And one thing to keep in mind too, is that TPD has been moving towards the Ford Explorers because they're safer.

They had a police officer die a couple of years ago in a car crash because he was still driving one of the old interceptors.

So it's become a priority to protect their officers to have this equipment.

They also bring a lot of equipment when they go out to calls.

I mean, there's a lot of stuff that's going to go in there, but it really isn't.

I mean, I think there's a tendency to talk about budget priorities is one thing versus another.

There's a lot going into this budget.

There's a lot of things in it.

The other thing to keep in mind is that this is a consequence of the flat taxes, this is a consequence of fewer people coming to Tucson.

Those are things that the city hasn't caused.

Those are caused by outside influences.

So they're going to have to balance these things.

Tony, about 30 seconds.

Do you understand the frustration in the question?

Maybe just at home?

Well, certainly, an SUV is more visible than the old interceptors were.

And in fact, I saw even just last night, an SUV pulled over, an officer pulled over a motorist, and the SUV had a dozen lights all around it, not just on the top, but everywhere.

People are going to notice that a lot more.

That's good for the police department.

People are more aware, naturally but if there are those who say, "Hey, this is a lot of money that's being spent on something like this.

Why are we doing it?"

That's also a point too.

Joe Ferguson, Paul Ingram, Nick Rommel, Tony Perkins, thank you all for joining us today.

And thank you at home, the listener and viewer, for watching us.

I'm David Lee, AZPM News Director, and this is The Press Room.

We'll see you next week.

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