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Addressing challenges for the unhoused, what Tucson and Pima County are doing to help the homeless this summer.

Arizona has a new state budget, winners and losers in the spending plan.

And political debates ahead of the primary election.

All that and more coming up on The Press Room, starting now.

(upbeat music) Hello and welcome to The Press Room.

I'm Tony Perkins and I'm joined in the studio by our panel of journalists.

Jim Nintzel with the Tucson Sentinel, John Washington from Lookout.

Joe Ferguson writes for the Tucson Agenda.

And we have Laura Holanszky from AZPM News.

Thanks for joining us today on The Press Room.

We're gonna start off talking about a discussion regarding housing in Tucson and the challenge of confronting homelessness in the city.

And January of this year, 2,130 people were identified as experiencing homelessness across Pima County.

That from the 2026 point in time count.

Jim, that is a decrease of 4% in the raw number, but there's more to the story than that.

There is.

I mean, we need to keep in mind that pit count is not an accurate assessment of how many people are homeless.

It's how many people can a crew of volunteers go out and talk to in a single day as they do annually.

So it does tell us where things are perhaps from year to year, but it shouldn't be taken as, oh, this is the extent of our homeless population.

That said, the problems of homelessness have just skyrocketed since COVID.

And a big part of that is the increase in the cost of housing in our community.

So there's a big effort to try to build more affordable housing, to find funding for that by the city of Tucson.

The Pima County is contributing to that and the state housing authority is as well.

But it's definitely a problem the Tucson Sentinel is taking a look at this year.

We're really focused in on all our team going out.

My colleagues have done some really terrific work on that so far, and there's a whole lot more to come.

Laura, you followed a group of nonprofits and the Tucson Police Department as they explore solutions.

What have you found out?

Yes, I went out to one of the safe city deployments at the end of April to see upfront what's going on in one of these deployments, because before we just saw the wrong numbers, these amount of X amount of people were contacted, X amount of people were arrested, but to see what's really going on on the field was really eyeopening to me because we could see how the police interacted with the unhoused individuals and a lot of them they knew on a first name basis.

And it just shows how they built trust and they continue to go out to areas that are full of encampments.

And by going out there multiple times, the acceptance rates also goes up.

So I think it's currently at 59%.

So that's definitely something to keep an eye out for.

It is very challenging to get people to accept services when they're living on the streets.

And in many cases, people are mentally ill or they're addicted to drugs or both, or they are struggling with a great deal of trauma and a sense of distrust of government.

So when someone goes out there and says, hey, we can help you, a lot of times they're just like, we don't believe it.

And that's one of the hugest challenges that we're facing in terms of solving this problem.

Yeah, I happen to be at the same outreach day.

And I think some of the people who were actually engaged in that, we're talking sort of on background and explaining the limitations of that approach.

Though some services are available, the ones that would really make a large difference is getting someone in housing are very hard to actually implement.

So the service that they're getting are sometimes quash warrants and then very basic things like food and a little bit of clothing or something like that.

And yet there are other consequences that are not actually services offered, but it's just chasing people around, making them when they actually are arrested, they're put in handcuffs.

They can feel humiliated, even if they have maybe first name recognition or they're on some sort of standard with police officers, they have to leave all their stuff behind.

And when they return to where they just left, they may not have it anymore.

It may have been, you know, rifled through and taken by someone else.

They have to get back to where they're going.

And really, I think it seems like a little bit of a cat and mouse game.

I mean, I think the intention is there, but we are also criminalizing people.

We know that drug arrests have been up significantly this year.

And sometimes because of the charge, that is going to end up land people in jail.

And just this week, we saw two more people die in jail.

We've come out of a crisis of jail deaths, but we know that jail is a very hard place to be and it has long-term consequence And these arrests sometimes do place people there.

Joe, there's the continuing argument regarding temporary housing versus permanent housing, shelters versus an actual place to live.

Has anything improved over the years regarding that for the homeless?

I think that we've seen a large increase in the amount of temporary housing that's available, but getting them to section eight housing or something that is long-term is a hard process.

The city and the county struggle with getting enough housing providers willing to take section eight housing.

And a lot of people don't fit into one shoebox-sized solution.

So, you know, whether it's dogs or family members, sometimes they don't wanna leave the streets because the solution that's being offered to them just doesn't work.

Some people are being asked to give up their dog or sometimes you go to a shelter and the family becomes separated and they don't want that.

So they're still working on those problems.

And I think now that we've had the safer initiative in place, we're seeing people that were easily put into housing in the first few months.

And now we're dealing with people that have much more complicated issues that are still living on the street that can't necessarily be solved by just a motel room.

John, we talk about the temporary solutions for the long-term and temporary side when you have the cooling centers and things like that.

When we pay too much attention to the temporary solutions, do we lose track of what really needs to be done on the long-term?

Well, the challenge is keeping both temporary solutions responding to a crisis in the moment of someone who is out in the heat and giving them either the water they need or the shelter, the temporary shelter they need, but then also trying to work towards that longer-term solution.

I don't think you can solve the long-term solution very quickly.

So you need to kind of do both.

And that has been a real challenge.

And we're seeing it in Tucson with the implementation of STAR Village.

That is a solution for, a medium-term solution for maybe 30 people.

And you see crime has gone down in the area.

In Phoenix, there is the Zone.

And a lawsuit a couple of years ago pushed about 1,000 people who are experiencing homelessness out of the downtown Phoenix.

And yet we're seeing reporting now that a lot of them have returned or just have dispersed elsewhere in the city.

So is that really finding people, the final housing that they need?

No.

And I think as long as we don't keep that in mind, we're not gonna actually get people housed.

And we do have a significant housing shortage in the community.

The single-family homes of permits have really just collapsed.

There are people who are building apartment complexes and things like that.

And the city itself has gotten into the development services with something called El Pueblo Development Services.

And they are building affordable housing.

No-Tel Motel site into Milagro on Oracle, which is an apartment complex.

They're redoing Tucson House.

They're building something on the old Bum Steer site called Sugar Hill on Stone.

They just got some more financing for something on Speedway and Stone.

But the number of units they're building is just very small in terms of the need that's out there.

Just another point to underscore how complicated this situation is and all the challenges.

I mean, right now we're seeing that HUD, Housing and Urban Development out of the federal government, is actually gonna limit the percentage of how much Pima County can spend on housing on some of these medium-term solutions.

And we can't forget that it's not just about housing.

I mean, housing first is debated, but many people agree that it is a solution to other issues, including mental health crises and substance abuse disorders.

And those are two things that are very prevalent among the houseless population as well, and they need real addressing as well.

Yeah, John brings up a really good point about that permanent supportive housing and the way HUD is moving away from that.

And there's still the folks who do this, figuring out how this money is gonna get spent and how to figure out what kind of grants to hand out here locally, are still struggling to get a grasp of exactly how this latest notification of funding from the federal government is gonna work out.

But they are saying there's gonna be less permanent supportive housing, which is what people who are elderly or mentally ill or physically disabled count on to keep a roof over their heads.

And we may be looking to actually un-house some of those people, which is just, I think a step backwards in trying to solve this problem.

Okay, let's move on to the state budget.

We're starting to get a breakdown of who came out ahead in the new state spending plan that was passed last weekend.

Joe, what stood out to you when looking over the spending plan and whether Democrats or Republicans came out ahead?

Well, when you talk to Tucson people, they tell you that Tucson did not come out ahead.

It's not a right or left kind of issue.

It becomes this issue of, you know, Maricopa versus the rest of the state.

And some of the funding priorities really hit Tucson pretty hard.

We've lost some funding for different programs over the last few months or in this budget.

And I think we're gonna see over the next few months how that plays out.

But whether it's, you know, that we got more state troopers that are now gonna be working with ICE, or whether it is a tax cut that is going to mean less revenue for the city of Tucson and Pima County.

I think those are gonna play out over the next few months.

But, you know, everybody is claiming victory, whether it's a Democrat or Republican with this budget.

And so we're really not gonna see those winners as losers until, you know, budget time next year.

Jim, $18.3 billion in the spending plan, 14 million going toward what Joe was talking about, the public safety troopers to help with immigration enforcement.

Yeah, that's, we'll see how Governor Hobbs directs that operation and how that goes.

I think the major tax cut, the winners on that are wealthy people and corporations because low income people don't pay a whole lot in taxes.

So they're not gonna see much out of that.

But I think Rio Nuevo came out unscathed through this whole process.

And they were in danger of losing their funding.

So that may have been a minor win for Tucson if you count being able to continue to do your business as a win.

Yeah, you know, about the state troopers enforcing federal immigration law.

So there's a bit of mixed messaging on this.

Hobbs spokesman came out after the budget was passed and said that they will not be directly collaborating with ICE.

But if you actually read the line item, you'll see that the budget requires that these state troopers strictly enforce, and that's a quote, federal immigration law.

They also will enforce SB 1070.

So it's a little bit unclear how she can sell that message that she's actually not pushing more enforcement at the state level at the same time when that's clearly what it says in the law.

You know, I think that who won, who came out ahead, I think Hobbs very clearly can say that the state didn't fall off a fiscal cliff.

And that's sort of like a win, you know, she knows how to govern.

And there's a lot of volatility right now, nationally, and even in the state.

And so we're able to pass the budget.

We're only two weeks shy of the deadline.

But when you actually look at the actual wins, she's saying maybe Rio Nuevo might be counted as one.

Tax conformity is a little bit confusing.

Like that's also something that the Republicans were championing, but she says it's a middle class tax cut.

Or the state trooper thing.

It's like, it's a little bit hard to actually read how this is a concrete win.

I think the one thing, and this is interesting that it's bipartisan agreement on, is the data centers.

Is that there's a moratorium on tax cuts for data centers.

And both Republicans, well last night in the gubernatorial debate, they were championing that, and so was Hobbs.

There was not a lot of love for data centers.

They ran against a roadblock.

Did the legislature listen to public pressure regarding that?

I think that they had a choice between doing it or not doing it, and they came in the middle with this three year moratorium.

I think it's notable that they did not decide just to withdraw the tax cuts for what is equally becoming a larger, larger unpopular data centers.

And so we'll see what happens in three years.

But I imagine that there will be a continued push to just eliminate the tax cut altogether for data centers over time.

I remember there was a lot of debate during the legislative session about the Trump tax cuts from last summer.

And what was Arizona gonna do about complying with or being against those tax cuts?

Where did that finally get resolved in this budget?

Or did it get resolved?

And they ended up going with full compliance with the federal law.

That was something Hobbs did not wanna do, but she eventually conceded to.

And I think it was probably the number one priority among Republican lawmakers this year.

I think we heard from a lot of Democrats who said that they did tinkered with tax conformity and that it didn't hit as hard as it did.

The city of Tucson was expecting a $7 million cut in revenue related to tax conformity.

Now they're estimating it to be three to four million.

So they tinkered under the hoods, but Republicans were still allowed to claim victory on this.

There's also a lurking danger here in this budget is that they didn't figure out a way to pass or make up the funds lost from Prop 123 to fund education.

And that was a priority, has been a priority of Hobbs every year that she's been in the governor's office.

And once again, they kicked the can down to next year, and they're gonna have to steal from the general fund with less tax revenue coming in.

So that is gonna be another issue that we again try to tackle next year.

Okay, now let's turn to politics, looking ahead to what is going to be happening, leading up to the primary.

Republicans are focused of course on the governor's race, who will be the best choice to face off against Democratic incumbent Katie Hobbs.

Two Arizona businessmen, two members of Congress faced off in a debate last night.

Laura, was there anything surprising that you heard in that debate?

What was surprising to me that almost everyone mentioned the water crisis, even if it was in certain different languages, some said it's a water management crisis, but then specifically Scott Neely, who works on the border wall construction himself, and he said there's a water crisis, and the water that they use for the border wall each day, it's like thousands of gallons.

So I just thought that was an interesting thing to bring up.

You got Andy Biggs and David Schweikert, members of Congress.

On the other side, you have Scott Neely, and Ken Miceli, the two businessmen.

Jim, Andy Biggs has President Trump's endorsement.

However, you didn't hear Trump's name come up very often during the debate.

Well, I think it definitely goes down to a race between Schweikert and Biggs, or that they're the ones who have money and name recognition and experience, so they're more likely to prevail in the July primary.

I think Katie Hobbs would probably rather run against Andy Biggs than against David Schweikert, only because I think they're counting on that Trump endorsement to be unpopular with independent and Democratic voters, and even some Republican voters.

And I think the Democrats are hoping for a big blue wave this year, based on what we've seen happen in special elections around the country, since Trump was elected and a pretty major swing towards Democratic candidates on the part of the voters.

John, they talked about economic development versus water concerns for Arizona.

That's an opportunity to set themselves apart from each other, but did that really happen?

Not really.

There wasn't much actual debate, I would say, in the debate.

They largely agreed with each other.

There were some minor differences along the margins.

One thing that stuck out to me is that they didn't really come out swinging that hard against Hobbs.

They talked about their policy points and sort of just laid them out and mostly agreed with each other.

I think it was a little bit lackluster.

There weren't really fireworks, and people didn't seem on the stage that energized, actually.

Insiders versus outsiders.

Did that register at all?

I think in a Republican debate, it's gonna be about name recognition at the end of the day, and I think that that's where this race is gonna be decided, and so I agree with Jim.

I think it's down to Schweikert and Biggs at the end of the day.

We'll see what happens, but when Republicans are voting, they're gonna see somebody on the ballot they know, or see a sign they drive by, or see a commercial, and there's only two names that are gonna really be in the public consciousness.

Okay, now let's move on to a new development in a story about Karla Toledo, the DACA recipient who was targeted for deportation by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

That case was dismissed, but now she faces a second notice to appear in immigration court.

John, you've got a new report coming out on how ICE continues to go after the Dreamers.

That's right, so yeah, Toledo was arrested last month.

ICE agents broke down her door.

Essentially, they were looking for her husband, but ended up taking her.

She has DACA protections that should protect her from being deported, and yet they were very much trying to deport her.

After she was represented by an attorney, after really staunch and rapid community support, I know Joe and I were both at a rally that same day when she was arrested outside of the ICE offices here in Tucson.

The case was dismissed a few days later, and then it was reopened.

So it was dismissed with prejudice, means that they could, and they in fact did reopen it.

And speaking to attorneys and experts, I think this case seems to be emblematic of a larger dragnet that is going after not only people with DACA status, so there's about a half a million people with DACA status in the country, but also people with other forms of protection, that is other types of visas, and right now, pretty much, it's nearly turning into something like open season, where even with those protections, you can be targeted for enforcement and deportation.

The American Immigration Council is called what Dreamers are going through a daily nightmare.

And Joe, polls show majorities in favor of a pathway for citizenship to the DACA recipients.

How surprising is it that the government keeps going after the Dreamers in this way?

Those are quota, right?

It's been publicly talked about for over a year now that they need to hit quotas to deport people.

And so they're not gonna just go after the people that we thought they were early on, which was gonna be these hardened criminal gangs.

They're going after anybody they can to meet a quota.

And they're hoping that once they've been disappeared, that they'll be out of the public attention.

But journalists at this table keep reminding us of who's behind those walls and what they look like and their stories and telling them.

And it becomes a lot harder to deport them at the end of the day.

You've got people that'll step in, like, well, then just say, I'm gonna represent her the day after she's been arrested.

It's dizzying at how quickly people are stepping in to help our neighbors in this immigration fight.

And it is also interesting that Dreamers, DACA recipients used to be a bipartisan issue in terms of support.

And you just mentioned the polling numbers in support of people generally don't wanna see people who have lived here all their lives kicked out of the country and sent to a place where they have basically no connections, maybe don't even speak the language.

And it is fascinating to see how Republicans are now shifting in favor of deporting.

Warren Peterson, running for attorney general, got into a beef with the Democratic Attorney General, Kris Mayes, about how eager he is to kick the DACA people out of the country.

And I just think that we'll see where the voters are on that, but I don't think it helps Republicans to be going after Dreamers.

Well, quick reminder on the timeline there.

So you're absolutely right that it used to be a bipartisan issue, but that was a while ago.

I mean, during the first Trump administration, they actually rescinded DACA, and then it got held up and blocked by the courts.

And so now they're trying to go after DACA-amented people in a new way.

It's not through the legal or statutory process of actually taking away the program, but just targeting them themselves.

All right, for those of us who live in Tucson, monsoon season began right on time, right on schedule.

Laura, does this put an end to concern about droughts and wildfires in our area?

It does.

There has been at least two wildfires in the last week, but I mean, just personal experience.

I almost got washed away yesterday.

I take the bus there and back to work.

And so I was doing some wild water rafting to get close to my home.

And you know, it does feel nice to have a little bit of rain, but as soon as the fun wore off, I had to take necessary precautions and probably get some sandbags from my house.

We did have a couple of wildfires that were happening in the Tucson area, but again, it's an up and down thing.

It's really just the start of monsoon season.

It is, and I think bringing it back to the homeless that we were talking about at the start of the program, it's very challenging.

Hopefully you're not camping in a wash at this point when that flash flood comes along.

And even if you're not, you're exposed to a lot of elements out there, and those storms can be so fierce.

All right, let's check with each of you on what stories you've got on your radar coming up.

Laura, what story are you looking ahead to doing?

I will publish a story soon about Gap Ministries' Culinary Training Program.

I interviewed a person who passed the training program and was homeless and was in jail.

And it just got a bunch of city funding.

So I'm interested to see how this program will continue to change lives in the future.

That's something that's on my radar.

And the other thing is I'm interested to go out to the community and talk to the unhoused folks who are on the streets and how are they battling the heat.

It's just, the cooling centers are open, but I wonder if they know how to get there and know where they are.

And it's just a matter of knowing.

And it's a very close knit community.

And as far as I know, they share resources with one another.

And yeah, I just wanna know what that looks like.

I'll be moderating a Clean Elections debate next week.

And on top of that, we'll be writing about LD20, one of the hottest races in Tucson next week for the Agenda.

Currently, ongoing border wall construction.

We're seeing the Rafael Valley.

They're nearing trying to do some destruction rather in order to construct right around the Lochiel, Arizona, small town.

There's a couple massive ancient cottonwood trees that are potentially gonna be bulldozed and ripped out of the ground just in the next couple days.

So it's something we're trying to pay close attention to.

That's just a tragic story about those trees down there.

But we're continuing work on homelessness over at the Sentinel, housing affordability.

And we are continuing coverage of the election because early voting starts next week.

Your deadline to register to vote is Monday.

And then our primary is earlier than ever.

It's late July and Wednesday those ballots are going out.

So folks need to start thinking about who they're voting for.

All right, well, let's end it there.

Thanks for our guests at The Press Room, Jim Nintzel, with Tucson Sentinel, John Washington from Lookout, Joe Ferguson with Tucson Agenda, and Laura Holanszky with AZPM News.

For all the staff and crew here I'm Tony Perkins.

Thanks for being with us.

We'll see you next week.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music) Support comes from Banner Health, a nonprofit healthcare system with an integrative health plan committed to giving back to Arizona.

Last year, Banner reinvested $1.1 billion into the Arizona community.

Learn more at bannerhealth.com.

This has been an original production of AZPM News.