The following is an AZPM original production.

From the radio studios of AZPM, welcome to the latest edition of The Press Room.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

Coming up, Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva still has not been sworn in as a member of Congress, and the government shutdown is making her wait even longer.

Plus, Starbucks closed seven Tucson locations.

Could that lead to more locally focused developments?

A group of journalists joins me to discuss those stories and more next on The Press Room.

(upbeat music) Welcome to The Press Room.

I'm Steve Goldstein, our panel of journalists today, Jim Nintzel of the Tucson Sentinel, Katya Mendoza of AZPM News, Tim Steller of The Arizona Daily Star, and Susan Barnett, drum roll please, making her debut from the Tucson Spotlight.

Susan, thanks for being here.

Happy future, thank you.

Good to have you.

Jim, you've been writing a lot about Adelita Grijalva.

She was on our program last week.

It looked like is she ever going to be sworn in, and now we have news as of Thursday afternoon.

It's coming soon, what do we know now?

We know now that the speaker says, Speaker Mike Johnson has said on CBS News this morning that, or yesterday morning, I guess, since we're airing on Friday.

It's called this morning though, I think.

Yes, that he will be swearing her in next week when Congress gets back from its recess on October 7th.

The plan is to go back in October 7th, and we don't know exactly what's going on with Congress right now, because of the shutdown and all those related issues.

Yeah, Katya, let me ask you on this one.

So now we know it's happening, but there were suspicions that Representative Grijalva said herself as to why she was delayed.

Did it sound like she was saying it was politics as usual?

What was she saying about this, as to why she was delayed?

So the suspicion is that it is because she has said she will also sign this petition that will urge a vote for legislation to release the Epstein files.

I mean, it was reported during her acceptance speech on election night that she would vote for the release.

When she was on this program last week, and the best part of it for me was when I said, "So, you know, has anyone asked you about this?"

She said, "I told them."

So she didn't have to be asked.

So Tim, what do you think about finally this, what seemed like sort of a silly delay, but now we're gonna move forward.

Yeah, it is a silly delay.

I think it's damaging.

I think one thing people forget is that Raul Grijalva, her father, Representative Raul Grijalva, came down, was diagnosed with cancer, I think, in March, 2023, and really didn't cast any significant votes or have much of a presence in Washington, DC, from March, 2023 till he died March 13th, 2024.

So that's a year without significant representation by an elected official, and then add on to that all the time required to hold an election.

So it's not just these few days.

These few days are annoying in the sense that these, but it's worse because these people haven't been represented for a long time.

Yeah, Susan, that seems like a really cogent point there, that it's not just that it's out of lead to grow hub, but it's the fact that this district, this enormous congressional district, really didn't have representation.

What do you make of how this has all played out?

Yeah, I think, well, you know, she won overwhelmingly in this district, 69%, and she has said that she will carry on a lot of the positions that her father did, such as being pro, or an advocat for immigrants, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, as well as issues with climate change and other things that are really opposing the Trump agenda.

So it's, we'll, I guess, see what happens next when she's voted in.

Yeah, so she's in the minority, yeah.

Yeah, and I think it's worth noting that she has not been in touch with the Speaker's office.

She told me that she found out about this from CBS News.

So I think a lot of the confusion about this could have been handled better, and the Speaker's office could have just said, "Yes, we'll be signing, swear you in next week," and that would have helped a lot.

The other thing to keep in mind is it's not just voting, she needs to be able to hire a staff to be able to provide the constituent services and such, and the District 7 staff shut down, the Raul's staff has shut down, and she needs to get a new staff up and running.

How long does that take, Jim?

Is that expensive, do we know?

Well, I know she's already got ideas of who she's gonna hire.

People are at a place, right?

Yeah, there are people ready to go, but you still need to handle the paperwork and open an office in D.C., open an office here, and it's just another delay on that front.

If he doesn't swear her in, I checked with the Secretary of State's office today, and October 14th is the date of the state's canvas of that election.

So after that, they can send official word to the speaker's office, and then there's really no excuse not to swear her in.

That's a very important point, Katya.

Yay, I was gonna say the same thing.

October 14th is when the results will be officially recognized.

I think it's also worth pointing out with this delay that earlier this year in April, two Republican lawmakers were, what's the word I'm looking for?

Sworn in.

Sworn in.

Yeah, yeah.

They were sworn in in April in two pro forma sessions, so just putting it back.

So like right after the, when the results weren't official, right?

And there are so many congressional rules that are, let's say a little bit old, that we don't all know, but apparently members of Congress are supposed to know, and the House Speaker has some things he can do.

Jim, let me go back to you on this government shutdown thing.

As of this taping, the government's been shut down for about a day and a half.

I can't imagine it's gonna be settled real soon, but this could affect certain aspects of Southern Arizona.

Anything come to mind for you specifically?

Well, I think, you know, it's an expensive process to even shut down the federal government.

There's a lot of money being wasted there, and the two sides are so intractable at this point, because the Republicans have the power and they can blame the shutdown on the Democrats.

The Democrats are gonna blame it on the Republicans.

There's kind of a public relations war going on there, and we don't know how that's gonna play out.

I'm curious to know how this is gonna affect Juan Ciscomani and his efforts to, you know, that's already heating up as a race, even though it's a year away, and he has a very strong opponent in JoAnna Mendoza, who has raised $1.5 million already of a former Marine drill sergeant and chased everybody else out of the race pretty much.

So I think it could definitely have some impact on that race, depending on how long this plays out and who gets blamed for it.

Well, briefly before the rest of the panel weighs in, were you looking at my questions?

Because that was actually my next question.

Tim, can I go to you on that?

Because the Ciscomani thing pops up to me all the time in the sense that, I don't know what the strategy is there, but this is someone who really at every turn wants to make sure that he's not MAGA, he doesn't fall into that category, and yet he does vote with the Trump administration's agenda almost all the time.

So what's the dynamic here?

Is this anything?

No, it's the same, yeah.

It's another example like we had with the big, beautiful bill, it was just a week or two ago that he signed onto a bill that would have extended tax credits under the ACA, much like what the Democrats are asking for and shut down the government over.

So he asked for those tax credits to be extended, he signed onto a bill, and then when push came to shove, as with the big, beautiful bill, he voted the other way.

He voted against that idea.

Now, he can vote however he wants, but why does he make these statements go in one way if he's gonna vote the other way?

Yeah, I think that's fascinating.

Katya, any thoughts on this one?

I know that I was thinking back months ago when you were on the program, national parks were gonna be affected by Doge, there were people who were losing their jobs there, and now when people think about Southern Arizona particularly, think about I'm gonna go to a national park, they might have that opportunity.

What are some other thoughts you have in relation to the shutdown?

Yeah, definitely.

It's really telling that a lot of the public, they're showing where their priorities are.

One of the main questions I'm hearing every day, what's gonna happen to the national parks?

I know some will remain open, some might shut down or offer limited services, employees could be furloughed, but what I do wanna jump back to is Jim's point in terms of messaging.

I think it's worth pointing out that Republicans are seeing a misleading claim that Democrats are at fault for this shutdown in terms of trying to fund health care for quote unquote illegal immigrants.

That is untrue.

A US law already prohibits unauthorized immigrants from gaining any federally subsidized health care coverage through Medicaid.

About 400,000 Arizonans, for example, get their health insurance through the Affordable Care Act, so they're just trying to extend those.

But it is true, Democrats, I mean the illegal immigrants quote unquote line may not be true, but it is true that Democrats took a gamble here and said, "No, we're not gonna pass anything unless you budge "on funding for health insurance."

So they made a gamble, a political gamble, and I think it can rightfully be laid at their feet It's just they're choosing to prioritize this issue, which they think is good for them and good for people.

Which I will add to that point.

It has worked for them in previous shutdowns, right?

That this is the hill that they are gonna choose to die upon, right?

Yeah, and we also have to keep in mind that Republicans are in control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, so any place that Democrats can try to get their points across or whatever they are fighting for across, they're gonna take that opportunity, right?

Well, and Jim, they had a chance to shut down the government in March, and Chuck Schumer got a lot of criticism for not taking that step.

He's got that moment.

So they're doing it now, they're going ahead and taking the step.

My question is, do Republicans just say, "No, we're not gonna do anything that you want, and let us drag out until Democrats have to cave and accept that they get nothing out of it," which looks really bad, or do Republicans at some point crack?

And this question of the tax credits for the Affordable Care Act, folks who are buying insurance on the exchanges, is one of the few things that will actually impact people before the midterm elections.

So in some ways, if Republicans don't actually change this, that's a campaign issue for the Democrats next year, because a lot of people are gonna see that increase in the health insurance policies.

Very much, Tim.

Yeah, I think another way to look at this also is just politically, Democrats are being criticized by their party, by the rank and file of their party, for not fighting hard enough.

And I think this is the leadership's way of saying, "Okay, okay, we're gonna fight."

Among other things, that's one point they're making.

Well, one of the political challenges that I think comes to mind is that when you have, and Susan, your point's well taken, that the Republicans control both houses of Congress and the White House.

But Tim, I'm struck by the fact that whether people, especially watching or listening to this program, like President Trump or not, he speaks with his voice.

And the Democrats don't have that equivalent voice, obviously, than the president, but even though Nancy Pelosi maybe to some extent would have had that, like, Hakeem Jeffries is sort of getting there, Chuck Schumer, no one seems to want to listen to it, that makes it harder to get your messaging out too, right?

Oh yeah, for sure, yeah.

There's no single point of reference.

There's no personality like Donald Trump's.

No, no, a lot of ways.

Jim, I'm gonna go back to you because of this story you wrote about Tucson council candidates disagreeing about so-called middle housing.

And this comes out of legislation that Governor Hobbs signed during the last legislative session.

Let's define what middle housing is, first of all.

So it's housing that's up to a quadplex.

It's duplexes, triplexes, townhomes, up to four units basically of housing on a single property.

Okay, so, and the controversy comes from where then?

Well the-- Because we all want affordable housing, right?

Right, and the legislature passed a bill saying that you have to have, if you have single family zoning, you have to allow up to four units to be built on that property within a mile of your central business district.

And the city of Tucson is moving forward, but what they've done is expanded that area to quite a larger area, from midtown basically to the west side and up to the city limits on the north side and over to South Tucson on the south side.

And there are people who are concerned that this will affect, there's a lot of middle housing already in that area, there's a lot of mix of housing, but there are also neighborhoods that are all single family housing.

And there are concerns that if you start putting up fourplexes in those kinds of neighborhoods, you're really gonna upset the character and the way of life, especially if you have two story units that are now looking down into people's houses.

There are other people who say, hey, the density is good, it will help with transit, it will help make things more affordable.

Interestingly, all four candidat I talked to, all five candidates I talked to said that they didn't really expect this to move the needle very much.

In terms of affordable housing, and one of the reasons for that is it's very expensive to build these things, and there was a study by the Drachman Institute here at the university that said these things don't even pencil out.

So there's not a lot of demand for developers to go in and start building them.

Katya, do you have any thoughts on this one?

No, I think I'm learning about this topic just as much as you are.

Yeah, because I think Tim, what struck me so much about, again, there was so much discussion in the most recent legislative session.

We know it's city by city, of course, but the session was there were so many fights about can we have this sort of more affordable housing or is it going to cause other issues, almost the unintended consequences phrase.

So is this something that makes sense for Tucson to at least try?

For sure, I think.

I mean, we passed the guest houses ordinance.

What is that?

The ADUs.

ADUs, accessory dwelling units, yeah.

Two or three years ago, and frankly, that's had very little impact.

Very few people have been able to afford to build such a thing.

And so, we're in something of a crisis, and yeah, I mean, from my perspective, my point of view, it's like, yeah, make it as big as possible, see what happens, you know?

And then you can adjust as need be.

Well, I think the problem is there, I don't think there are take backs.

Well, you can't take back a house.

No, I mean, if you expand it across the entire city and you do run into problems, you can't say, oh, we're taking back this middle housing because there's a takings clause in the constitution, and if you lower someone's property value, you have to reimburse them for that.

And didn't council member Kevin Dahl, he had mentioned starting somewhere smaller and then expanding that out, right?

That's what he said the initial thought was, and he's a little more sympathetic because some people are saying, well, if you do it in too small an area, that's gonna put too much pressure on that area, so you should expand it outward.

Miranda Schubert, running in Ward 6, does want the citywide approach to that.

Her opponent says, look, there are a lot of neighborhoods where this would not be appropriate, that it will upset the character of those areas.

So we'll see what the council decides either in November or December of this year.

Tim, let's segue to a column you wrote.

This also would affect the character of a community, and that is crime.

You wrote a column specifically related to the killing of Enrique Mercado, who was riding his bike on the Huckleberry Loop last month.

How does a city, especially one that is quite progressive and doesn't want to, for good reason, doesn't wanna punish people for being unhoused, and yet, as you wrote in your column, there is a relation to certain drug crimes that may lead to larger crimes.

How, from what you've heard from the council and what your own opinion is, what's the balancing act there?

Yeah, well, the council has been quite sympathetic to people living on the streets, providing services, trying to kind of tempt people or attract people into taking services and getting off the streets.

They've had some success, but anyone who's been around town knows that it isn't at least visible.

It seems like the problem we have of people living on the streets is about the same, if not worse than it has been.

There's this other issue, and my proposal in the column was, is that some of these people cause public safety problems.

So Enrique Mercado was killed while he was riding in what's known as the Tuesday Night Ride.

It's something that's been going on for years, where people, it's kind of a slightly rowdy bunch of people riding through neighborhoods.

And so they, for whatever reason, went through this one notorious section just near the Tucson Mall, just east of that.

And he ended up somehow getting into a conflict and this man stabbed him.

We don't know the details of how.

So I guess the point, the way I bring these two together is that we need to make the public spaces safe and worry about that.

And so my argument was, more than we need to worry about trying to solve people's intractable problems, you can use dealing with people who are in public spaces, who are committing crimes there as leverage to get people into services.

And the council's quite open to that.

But the question, I think, is one of priorities.

Yeah.

Susan, what are your thoughts on this, as far as what reporting you've done and what reporting you've seen?

Yeah, at the Tucson Spotlight, we covered, I think you had mentioned the Pima County Transitional Center or Transition Center.

And you mentioned also some numbers.

So we have seen, and also there's been a lot of grassroots efforts in South Tucson.

There's Barrio Restoration that's doing the Barrio cleanups.

There's Community on Wheels.

So there's a lot of organization as well as the government that's creating programs as well.

But going back to what Tim had said about the numbers, I think you had mentioned them in your article about how successful some of these programs had been.

But then reframing it into public safety, right?

That concern of public safety.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned sort of the balancing act.

I think there is a lot of frustration with the homeless and with fentanyl use and I think, and other drug use.

And I think that's one of the things that is not unique to Tucson, okay?

That's happening across the country.

But, you know, we do live here.

And the city council is responsible for taking care of Tucson.

I thought Tim's column was really good in pointing out that people don't, they wanna be able to go to a bus stop.

I was talking to Councilman Cunningham about this issue and literally in the middle of our conversation, I could hear him yelling at his car, "Hey, no smoke here, there's no smoke in here."

And he said there were people in the bus stop in front of his council office that were smoking fentanyl.

And the idea that the council's playing with is possibly having a misdemeanor charge for open drug use.

And that way the police could arrest somebody and they'd end up in city court.

Because one of the problems they're having is that the county attorney is prosecuting a lot of these cases that the police bring.

And if the police arrest somebody on these charges, that's gonna use up the rest of their day in taking them to jail and dealing with the paperwork and everything that goes along with that.

And then they're not out on the street taking care of other things that were already understaffed.

And then the person's not even getting prosecuted.

So that's a frustration, I think, in City Hall.

And we will see if the city moves forward with this misdemeanor idea, what happens with that.

But I do think at the bottom line, with a stabbing like this, even Councilman Cunningham knocked over a shoplifter a couple months ago who was stealing liquor out of a Walgreens.

And I think there's just general frustration among a lot of people as this problem has grown and the drug problem associated with it has grown.

Yeah, and Tim, a council like this though that has, I don't wanna say erred on a particular side, but they've chosen the side that is much more progressive.

How much harder is it for them to then, Nikki Lee's proposal that you mentioned, to make drug possession a misdemeanor crime in the city, is that something that a council that has been leaning this way will go for?

It's a question I can't answer, but I think that you can see the politics of it playing out, Lane Santa Cruz, who might be considered maybe the most progressive or left leaning council member, had said in her most recent newsletter that she voiced serious skepticism about this.

Mayor Romero, who is generally Santa Cruz's ally on things, has been, I would say more open.

I know when I interviewed her a couple of weeks ago, she spontaneously brought up the problem of arrests not being prosecuted.

So I know that that's something that's on her mind.

And the rest of the council shakes out in different ways.

They've said they've asked the city manager to put together a commission to look at it over 60 days, which is relatively short period.

So we should have a political sense after a couple of months whether they're gonna have the desire to go for it or not.

Okay, let me move on.

I'm not a coffee drinker, though I must admit, I occasionally stop in Marana to get an iced tea.

Katya, you ever go to Starbucks?

(laughing) Putting her on the spot.

I am an avid coffee drinker, I will say that.

But I do support local as well.

Local as well, okay.

I only support local.

Sorry to put you on the spot.

I don't drink Starbucks.

You know what, I'm not a coffee drinker either.

My kids, my 11 year old really enjoys a coffee in the morning.

No, just kidding.

Just kidding.

My wife will take them to Starbucks and I'll get some kind of, I don't know what they get.

Something.

We're gonna go to Tim's column in a second.

I'm not putting you on the spot again, Katya.

But when you heard that like these seven national chain locations, in an area, Tucson is an area people even think locally, I think even more than many other communities.

When you saw seven Starbucks closing in Tucson, did you think anything of it?

Did you think, oh, maybe that's a good sign or something?

You know, I can't really form an opinion on it.

I just have questions regarding the matter because some of the Starbucks that will be closing into something were just completed, it feels like almost a few weeks ago.

I'm thinking of the one on a Grant and Campbell and there was like another new location, other new locations popping up.

And you know, what's interesting is that Starbucks has been in the news quite a bit over the past few years, a lot of attention on the Starbucks Workers Union as well.

What's interesting is that Starbucks has said that they're refocusing on their coffee house experience.

What does that mean exactly?

And why close so many Starbucks?

Right, and Tim does that indicate that local is winning because people want an experience that's more like local.

I mean, well, I counted up the number of dots on the screen on the Starbucks store locator for Tucson.

I had to use two different screens to count all of them because in just in order to see the detail.

And there were more than 60 in the Tucson area.

That includes the seven that are closing.

It feels like, you know, a rounding error when you close seven of them.

But one of them is in a very important spot, which is the one that Katya mentioned at Grant and Campbell.

I mean, they're all important in their own ways to the people who love them, I'm sure.

But the one at Grant and Campbell is really an important corner.

And it blocked the mural, Joe Pagac mural of whales swimming as they do through the sunset sky in the desert.

You know, every once in a while you see that, right?

(laughing) And people were really mad about that.

I personally am not, but that's a whole other story.

The question is, it opens up with the Starbucks closing, it opens up the possibility of redeveloping that whole corner.

And what's changed is not just the Starbucks closing, but also Banner, which owns the Catalina Theater property there in the big parking lot, is now open to selling.

When I reported on this two years ago, they were not.

They were just like, what?

No, we just have our parking lot, we like it, you know?

Now they're open to hearing ideas.

And so theoretically, the closure of Starbucks at that corner could lead to something bigger on the corner.

Yeah, I think, Susan, any thoughts on that?

Because I think that's the community aspect of it.

Yeah, and I was just thinking about how when I saw a building come up on that corner, I was upset, and then when I realized it was Starbucks, I was angry.

So I'm very excited, looking forward to see what happens on that land, and to see if that mural stays up or not.

Jim, not to pull the curtain back too much, but you are the resident landlord here.

So when you think about that property area and what it could do as far as reconnecting folks with what this community is about, is that a good corner?

I think another check cashing place is always important (laughing) in the city of Tucson.

No, I do think that's an important corner.

It used to be our Bookman's corner before that was demolished.

And there is a lot of real estate there, especially if indeed the Banner's open to unloading the old Catalina Theater.

There's a huge redevelopment opportunity there.

Tim, our last minute or so, what are you looking for next?

I mean, you wrote a really intensive detailed column.

So over the next few months, year, what sort of follow-ups you'd be looking to do?

Oh, on this?

On this story, yeah.

I mean, it'll all be about, so well, here's one little detail that I found intriguing.

I talked to the director of Savaya Coffee, and she is there opening a coffee shop in right on that corner around the corner.

And she was very intrigued by the possibilities.

And I think a lot of people are feeling that sense of intrigue.

Yeah, so that could be exciting.

All right, guys, Tim Steller, Arizona Daily Star, Katya Mendoza, AZPM News, Jim Nintzel, Tucson Sentinel, Susan Barnett, Tucson Spotlight, you survived, did a great job.

Thank you very much for being here.

Thank you for having me.

And thank you all for joining us in this edition of The Press Room.

We are back next week.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

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