(soft music) - [Announcer] And now, the Crosscut Festival Main Stage, featuring a selection of curated sessions from this year's Crosscut Festival.

Thank you for joining us for "The Purpose of Power" with Alicia Garza, moderated by Errin Haines.

A huge thank you to Waldron, our social justice track sponsor for this event.

We'd also like to thank our founding sponsor, The Kerry and Linda Killinger Foundation.

- Hi everybody, and welcome to the Crosscut Festival.

I'm Errin Haines, editor-at-large for The 19th News, which is a non-profit, independent newsroom, focused on the intersection of politics, gender and policy.

I am so excited to be with you today, because I'm going to have a conversation with Alicia Garza, principal of the Black Futures Lab and the Black to the Future Action Fund and Director of Strategy and Partnerships at the National Domestic Workers Alliance, and host of one of my favorite podcasts, "Lady Don't Take No."

Her recent book, "The Purpose of Power, How We Come Together When We Fall Apart", reflects on her life's work as an organizer and an activist.

I've been able to witness some of Alicia's latest season in my reporting, and have really been looking forward to this conversation.

So Alicia, it's so great to be with you today, and thank you for being here because we have a lot to discuss.

- Yes, we do.

It's great to be here with you, and thank you to The Crosscut Festival for having us.

I've been looking forward to this all week, Errin, so let's get in.

- Yeah, let's get into it.

I mean, I want to start by asking you about one area of power that I know that you've been focused on in the past year, and that's the 2020 election and this new administration that's taking shape, which we recently talked about when I wrote about Vice President Kamala Harris, and the Biden Harris administration's first 100 days.

So I'm wondering if you can share with our audience your assessment of how the administration is doing so far on the priorities that voters have told you that they care about and what you see as the work ahead.

- Yeah, well, look, I have to be honest here.

What we are in is a very unique moment, where there is more possible in the next four years than there has been in the last 12.

And that means that this administration is really doing a great job, addressing the mandate that pushed them over the finish line and into The White House, a mandate around racial justice, a mandate around economic justice, a mandate around COVID-19 relief and recovery, a mandate around climate justice and a mandate around addressing the landscape that exists now in this country, that has actually always existed, but it certainly becomes sharpened and it's come out into the light.

And I think on most of those issues, they're doing an excellent job when it comes to moving $400 billion for care infrastructure.

We're still waiting for that bill to move through the Senate, but certainly it's an important indication of where this administration stands.

Not just on jobs in the economy, but on women and women of color, and black women, who, as you know, Errin, have been literally pushed out of many sectors in December.

I think it was black women, more than 100,000 black women were permanently displaced from the economy.

And so these are important advances.

Now at the same time, I did listen to the speech that Joe Biden gave.

I love that he told transgender citizens in this country that he is their president, and that he is behind this community.

And one thing that I didn't love, and I'll just be 100% honest, I don't think they're as strong on racial justice as I would want them to be.

And frankly, I think that has a lot to do with the fact that for so many of us in this country, we see racism as an inter-personal problem.

We see it as a function of what happens when people are mean to each other.

But in fact, racism is baked into every system every process, every structure that upholds this nation.

And as the country has become more visibly polarized, I think we do have to start coming up with answers and solutions to this enduring challenge, and it's not enough to try to kind of talk out of both sides of your mouth, for example, with policing.

Saying things like we can't have people being murdered in the streets, but also police are good people.

That's actually not the issue.

The issue is that the processes by which police should be held accountable don't exist.

And the other thing that doesn't exist is racial justice inside of our criminal system.

And so those are the places that we have to really dig in and stop trying to make everybody happy.

These are big changes that has, that have to be made, and they are bold marks that have to be placed on this moment in history.

So generally, doing a great job, but I definitely think more needs to be done around racial justice, especially in the context of the growing white nationalists crisis that we have in this country.

- Yeah, absolutely.

And I feel like, with kind of the dual pandemics of systemic racism and coronavirus converging last year, I feel like a lot of voters really came to understand the impact of policy on their daily reality in so many ways.

And I wonder if that was something that you feel like you saw too, not just in the 2020 election, but as we now transition to governing.

And what power means for our electorate, for the folks that got a lot of these people into office, not just the president and the vice-president, but really just elected officials from the very highest level, all the way down to their local government.

Understanding the impact of those folks and their daily lives and really their role, their civic role, to continue to hold these folks accountable now that they have been elected.

- Absolutely.

Well look, I mean, in my conversations with black voters across the nation, we talked to more than 2 million black voters leading up to this past election cycle, and certainly the runoffs in January.

And one of the things that was very apparent is that more people became civically engaged this year, than had been prior.

And it had everything to do with the sharpening crises that you talked about, the crises of systemic racism that was becoming more apparent to more people, the crises of the pandemic or the Panorama, or whatever you want to call it these days.

And also there were crises before the crisis of Donald Trump, which is, I feel blasphemous for even saying his name, but we have to keep talking about the fact that this last four years really drove the acceleration of these crises, that then culminated, in one of the most important years in my generation, in my lifetime.

I've found in my conversations with people, that because they felt the sharpening of these crises, they also wanted to deeply understand what they could do about it.

And not just in voting, but they wanted to understand how they could shift the decisions that people were making on their behalf.

And what it made me realize, Aaron, is that for so many of us, we are so distant from the process of governance.

We are distant from the process of making laws.

A lot of us don't even know how government works.

So it's why my organization exists.

It's why I built the Black Futures Lab, it's why I built the Black to the Future Action Fund, because I don't believe we can be powerful in politics if we're not a part of them.

And for black communities in particular, we're always being asked to come to the table and save the country from pending doom.

But yet when it comes to policies and practices that improve our lives, we're getting the short end of the stick here.

And I'm preaching to the choir, but it's a big deal that a lot of the black voters that we talked to in this last cycle said, "Yes, I'm definitely going to vote."

But if you ask people, "Do you get anything out of voting?"

They can't tell you what they get.

So that's a crisis that's looming.

And then when we talk about movements, I think we did see social movements take up the mantle and the banner of really shaping electoral organizing in this last election cycle.

And that was important, not just because of the crisis that was looming, but it's an important development and advancement in social movements in general.

Lots of people think about social movements as being outside of the process of governance by nature, and in some ways that's true.

But I think in the most kind of successful movements that we've seen around the world, it's been the combination of governance on the inside, and also continuing to build and expand power on the outside, and then figuring out how you bring those things together into some kind of coherent whole.

And we need to get to that point as well.

We can no longer be passive observers to the decisions that are being made about us, without us, every single day.

We've got to start looking at how we change the rules permanently to ensure that people don't get left out and left behind.

I think, yesterday, I saw something about, it's more than 350 bills to restrict voter participation in like 48 states, it's insane.

And so, democracy is certainly in crisis.

And if democracy is in crisis, governance becomes more distant and more fleeting.

So we've got to bring those two issues together, and I'm so proud of my friends, like Latasha Brown, who are killing it, the Black Voters Matter, making sure that we still have the right and the ability to vote, and fighting these voter suppression laws.

But I think it's a natural extension of the uprisings that we saw this past summer, and I think we all need to see it that way.

- Yeah.

And that work continues.

The reckoning with many institutions, including my own industry of journalism and media, the reckoning is ongoing, and we're just kind of, really, at the beginning of that work in so many ways across so many aspects of our society.

But I wanna circle back to something that you were starting to talk about and something that we talk about a lot, and I don't want to spoil it, your book, for people who may be watching though, I encourage everybody to read it, but so much of what you do is really not just about your own power as an organizer, but in really getting people, particularly women and marginalized folks in our country to realize their power.

But a theme that I've written about, a lot, in this past year, that I'm continuing to write about this year, is the backlash to that power.

Which you have kind of alluded to, that we are seeing unfold in these culture wars that continue to kind of dominate republican politics in particular.

So what can you say about the purpose, really, of these culture fights, and how they attempt to undermine folks who are seeking to gain power and agency in our democracy?

- Yeah.

It's so important for us to understand this, and not, again, make the same mistake that I think we made that allowed Donald Trump to become president, which is that we just wrote republicans off as being unhinged.

And, in fact, it has nothing to do with their mental health, and has everything to do with their political agenda that they are trying to move, and when they can not move it through state legislatures, when they can not move it through Congress, what they do is they move it through hearts and minds.

And then that creates the conditions for state legislatures to move bills and for Congress to move bills that severely restrict and curtail the rights of Americans and people around the world.

It's interesting, when I was growing up, the culture wars were all centered around women's bodies.

It was all centered around sexuality and morality.

There was a panic about teen pregnancy being an epidemic, which it really wasn't, but it was certainly a way, to start to introduce, using panic and fear, and anxiety, these bills that were things like the global gag rule, which prohibited federal dollars going to, oh, go ahead.

- That wasn't a coincidence either, right?

Like that was parallel to kind of the rise of women, of gender, being really at the forefront of the conversation as women, and queer folks were starting to get power, were starting to realize and recognize their agency.

That was the backlash to that movement.

- That's absolutely right.

- And the emergence to that movement, right?

Yeah.

- Yeah, of course, and now it's- - They are around race, right?

I mean, like, think about obviously, this war on voting, which is not a real thing, as we know, but also, the 1619 Project, which is now two years old, that continues to be resurrected and thought about, though, is stating very plainly that we need to talk about the origins of this country, the actual origin to this country with the arrival of the first enslaved people to this country.

But that is something that folks feel the need to push back on that history, that is a very important part of our American story.

But you know what that says about our democracy, I think.

Yeah, that's kind of, all of that is what you're talking about.

- That's right.

I mean, and so when you look at the culture wars of today, and you wonder, why are they obsessed with transgender people playing sports?

Or why are they obsessed with medical access for transgender communities?

Why are we obsessed with Colin Kaepernick taking a knee and wokeness culture and counsel culture.

They're obsessed with it, because this movement has been so successful in changing hearts and minds, around not only the presence and existence of systemic racism, but also changing hearts and minds around who deserves to have power in this country, and really trying to break up the concentration of power.

And I think what we need to expect over the next couple of years is that those cultural wars are going to get more pronounced, and I think that they will continue to start to attack educational institutions, curriculum, any place where we're shaping and forming ideas.

They'll also start to try to attack public services and who can and can't receive them.

We see this, certainly, around the issues of immigration, and now I think we're starting to see it around gender and around sexuality.

And so we got to keep our eyes on the prize here, and understand that culture and policy really do go hand in hand.

- Yeah, and for folks who, I think, try to, there are folks who try to minimize these culture wars, is just like a distraction, as opposed to really potentially being a destructive force in our democracy.

And I wonder what you say to people who, I guess, kind of to your point, we're dismissing republicans as crazy or fringe, many millions of people are in support of a lot of these ideas and theories, and voted for people who espouse these ideas and theories in the last election.

- That's right.

And, look, I'll be honest with you.

It's not just white people, it's also in communities of color, it's in black communities, it's in immigrant communities.

And the republican party of today is not the republican party of the 1990s.

And in fact, they're so much more extreme, that I don't even know that we can call them republicans anymore.

I almost long for the '90s republican over the republican of today.

But I will say this, Errin, if we're not careful, and we're not mindful about the ways that these things are intersecting, and we are not just going to get left behind, but we're going to get left out completely.

And I think what we've learned over the last four years is that we cannot underestimate the power of misinformation and disinformation, and we also can't underestimate their strategy to try to break up the coalitions and alliances that we've built that have made us so powerful and are allowing us to change the rules, and allowing us to begin to start being the people who are making the rules.

It's because of those alliances that we have the first indigenous woman ever, to oversee the department of the interior.

It's because of those alliances that we see more women of color than have ever been in the United States Congress.

And then we also, in state houses and municipalities across the country with black mayors proliferating all over the place, that are young and have, and mostly progressive minded.

So they have a strategy to counter our power, and we should certainly see that as a threat, but also as an opportunity to get stronger, to get bigger and to get bolder, because we are definitely winning and history is on our side.

- Yeah.

I mean, you talk about the misinformation, there is information piece of the culture war, and there are, certainly, I think, a few big examples of that, that that we should talk about.

One, this vaccine hesitancy piece outside of communities of color, which obviously have had a historic reason to be skeptical about getting vaccinated, but there is also kind of an anti, queue and on, what have you movement that is slowing down our vaccine progress in conservative evangelical circles, if you will.

You also have the big lie, certainly the rigged election lie that we know is not real.

Our own government has declared that the 2020 election was the most safe and secure that our country had ever had.

I wonder what you, I mean, talk to me about how, I mean, these things are literally dangerous.

The January 6th insurrection that was violent, that was deadly.

And so just working in a newsroom name for the 19th Amendment, I've just been thinking a lot about misinformation, the big lie, its impact on our electorate.

I mean, the reality is that this is just part of an even bigger older lie in this country.

That's what you're kind of talking about.

And I just wonder if you can explain to our audience kind of why this bigger lie is a real threat to our democracy, and why certain Americans are still so invested in telling it, and what people who are concerned about the bigger lie, what they can do about it.

Like we want to give people some hope here as we kind of wind down this conversation.

- Sure.

Well, look, I talk about this a lot in my book, it's really about power versus empowerment.

And I think that, frankly, some of this push around misinformation and disinformation is always intended to keep power as it is, and to maintain and extend the status quo for as long as possible.

And as this country's demographics change, as this country's values change, this the people within it, it forces a contradiction, and it forces America to either reaffirm its values and play them out in practice, or be explicit that it was all kind of a big mess from the beginning.

And one of the things I say in my book, Errin, is that, we, as Americans have to understand that America itself is powered by amnesia, we are, America could not exist if we were not invested in the project of forgetting, the project of forgetting the genocide of indigenous people, the attempted genocide of indigenous people in this country, the enslavement of black people in this country, the work programs of Latin X people in this country, the exclusion acts of Asian people in this country.

And the atrocities that have been experienced by every single person who has ever been designated as other, in the name of America.

And until we begin to allow ourselves to remember, Errin, we're not going to be able to move forward in any kind of way.

If every two years we're having a new awakening around does racism exist, do we ever get to the point where we actually get to start untying and undoing?

- No, no.

- So I just want people to understand that, again, the way for us to move forward together, is not to stick our heads in the sand and say, "Well, that was then and this is now," it is to remember the impacts of all of the atrocities that have happened in the name of this country, so that they can not be repeated again.

So that we can see the seeds of them, we can continue to see the impacts of them, and so that we can consistently say, "We are not about that, we are about this instead."

And I think for us, for a lot of us, we're trying to figure out what's next, and what is going to be necessary for this administration to be successful, for us to not retract or devolve back into the mess, in the cesspool that we were in not even six months ago, is to commit to ourselves that we will never forget, that we will not turn away from the things that are hard, that we won't get bound up in the shame of the atrocities themselves, but that will actually be driven by our values in such a way where we're courageous enough to stand up to that monster that keeps trying to rear its ugly head and say, "Well, don't worry about that.

That was then, and this is now."

So just for concrete steps, I think we have to stay focused, I think we have to stay present, I think we have to stay connected, and I think that we have to continue to push this window wider and wider.

Otherwise, Errin, I will tell you, if we have more years, which I think we do, thanks to black voters (laughing).

If we have more years on this planet, I don't think any of us wants to look back and say, "Gosh, we really wasted that opportunity," and now we have the 2.0 version of what we had four years ago, and they actually figured out how not to get unelected, but they figured out how to stay in power for much longer, whether we wanted them to or not.

That's what we're trying to avoid here.

And the way we can do that is by staying engaged and staying connected, and remembering.

- Absolutely.

Well, I mean, I think that that is almost almost a great way to end this, but I wonder if, because you've encountered so many people who were creative and overcame the challenges of the pandemic to find their power in this past year.

I wonder if there is a group of people, in particular, an organization that you really just saw standing up and coming into their power in this past year, that you could talk about, with our audience, who may frankly be wanting to see, kind of an example of what you're talking about, in action, in our democracy right now.

- Yeah.

I mean, there were so many, but I'm going to highlight two.

So we all talk about Black Voters Matter, but I think we really need to talk about Black Voters Matter, moving millions of dollars to communities that are being left out and left behind, so that they could be powerful in the political process, and so that they could be prepared to defend their victories.

And so that is an organization I think you should support, absolutely, we all know Latasha Brown, right?

But you also need to know Cliff.

You also need to know Ms. Donna.

There's so many incredible organizers there, that literally help to, not just capture the hearts and minds of people around what was possible in elections, but also are creating the kinds of networks and fabric that is going to keep this democracy alive.

So definitely check them out.

And then there's an organization that I think people don't hear about as much, and it's called the Black Male Voter Project.

And I just remember in the last season, I was so scared about the ways in which black male voters were being used as wedges.

And I was really grateful for this organization because they took that challenge on head-on and said, "Well, actually, if we stop demonizing black men in the political process, maybe black men will, maybe you can trust us to like do what we know how to do."

There was lots of conversation about how black men broke off and voted for Trump, but actually, the majority of black men who voted, voted with the segment of the country that said there is a better way and there's a better path.

Now, at the same time, what I love about this organization is that they are also paying attention to making sure that our communities get something out of politics, that we don't just keep going to people every four years and being like, "Oh, we know we said that last time, but, and I know you didn't really feel anything in your pocket, or in your community or in your home, your life didn't change, but keep voting."

(Alicia laughing) And so what I love about them is that they are really building infrastructure in communities for black men to feel like they can be a part of the political process, and actually get something out of it.

So those are two organizations I would shout out, but there's so many more, like the National Domestic Workers Alliance, who has been fighting for a decade, for the recognition of the people who care for the people that we care for the most is $400 billion.

Yeah, it's $400 billion in care infrastructure, it is incredible, and to have it introduced in an infrastructure bill just shows the power of this movement and this organizing, led by the fearless Ai-jen Poo, who I have the honor and pleasure of working with, every day, and have, for almost the last decade.

There's a ton of organizations out there that you should support, but those are three that I will highlight, that are really working to put this country back together again, but also transform it, so we never get back here again.

- Yeah.

Well, I think that's a great note to end on.

Unfortunately, we are out of time, but Alicia, thank you for a great conversation, and obviously, for all the incredible work that you're doing.

- Thank you so much, Errin, I always love talking with you.

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