>>> THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SOCIAL MEDIA AND VIOLENCE MIGHT NOT BE AS CUT AND DRY AS SOME MAKE IT SCENE.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT ASPECT, WE ARE JOINED BY LANCE WILLIAMS RIGHT HERE IN STUDIO FROM NORTHEASTERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY.

AND PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AND DIRECTOR OF THE ETHNOGRAPHY LAB AT STANFORD.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU TO CHICAGO TONIGHT.

LANCE, YOU ARE AT AND I YOU BUT ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS YOU DO, YOU'RE AN EXPERT WITNESS IN CASES AND SPEAK TO JUDGES ABOUT WHAT IS OR IS NOT GANG-RELATED ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

TELL ME ABOUT WHAT THAT ENTAILS.

>> WHAT IT ENTAILS IS WITH THE NEW FORMATION OF SOCIAL MEDIA IN POP CULTURE, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THOSE THAT ARE NOT IMMERSED IN THE CULTURE, PARTICULARLY POP-CULTURE, TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN WHAT A TRADITIONAL ELEMENT OF, LET'S SAY, GANG ACTIVITY AND WHAT WE SEE IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY AS IT RELATES TO POP-CULTURE.

SO, MY JOB IS TO -- IN CASES WHERE THINGS GO LEFT, CRIME AND VIOLENCE POPS UP, IT IS TO HELP THE COURT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN TRADITIONAL GANG ACTIVITY AND YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST INVOLVED IN POP CULTURE.

>> WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TWEET OR A SOCIAL MEDIA POST THAT IS POP-CULTURE EXPRESSION VERSUS ONE THAT IS AN OVERT GANG SIGNAL.

>> IN POP CULTURE TODAY, IT IS VERY POPULAR TO IDENTIFY WITH NEIGHBORHOOD AFFILIATIONS THAT MAY HAVE A PARTICULAR NAME AFTER AN INDIVIDUAL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHO MAY HAVE BEEN KILLED THROWING A PAN SIDES SIMILAR TO WHAT WOULD BE PERCEIVED AS GANG SIGNS.

A DIFFERENT KIND OF LANGUAGE IS ASSOCIATED WITH GANG BANGING.

YOU SEE THAT IN YOUNG PEOPLE AND SOCIAL MEDIA POP-CULTURE.

IT'S A POPULAR THING THAT YOUNG PEOPLE DO.

HOWEVER, SOME OF THOSE ELEMENTS ARE FOUND PROMINENTLY IN WHAT WE WOULD CALL TRADITIONAL GANG ACTIVITY .

NEIGHBORHOOD TERRITORY, GANG SYMBOLS, FASHION, DRESS, TATTOOS, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE TIED TOGETHER AND MY JOB IS TO HELP TAKE THEM APART YOU CAN TELL ONE FROM THE OTHER.

>> THE IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW IS YOU SPENT ABOUT THREE YEARS WITH A GANG ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF CHICAGO.

I'M SURE YOU LEARNED MANY, MANY THINGS.

WHAT DID HE TEACH ABOUT THE CONNECTION BETWEEN SOCIAL MEDIA AND VIOLENT CRIME?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SPENDING TIME WITH YOUNG PEOPLE IS INVALUABLE TO THIS CONVERSATION.

I SPENT TIME WITH GUYS, A GANG FROM THE TIME THEY GOT UP TO THE TIME THEY WENT TO BED, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I DISCOVERED WHICH SURPRISED ME WAS HOW FAR OF A GAP THERE WAS BETWEEN WHAT WE THINK SOCIAL MEDIA IS DOING FOR VIOLENCE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND WHAT IT IS ACTUALLY DOING.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE STATISTICS, ACTUALLY, IN THE EXACT TIME WHEN SOCIAL MEDIA WAS BEING TAKEN UP BY GANG ASSOCIATED GROUPS, THAT IS A TIME WHEN CHICAGO IS AT SOME OF ITS SAFEST.

SO, ALREADY, THE STATISTICS ARE LEANING AGAINST THIS CONCLUSION THAT SOCIAL MEDIA IS DRIVING VIOLENCE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SEE WHEN WE ARE WITH YOUNG PEOPLE IS JUST HOW MUCH THEY ARE TURNING TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND SOME OF THESE EXAGGERATED SHOWS AND PERFORMANCES OF VIOLENCE AS A, KIND OF, PERFORMANCE TO GAIN STREAK READ THAT DOES NOT ACTUALLY SPILL INTO THE STREETS.

IT IS THE SAME KIND OF EXAGGERATION THAT ALL OF US DOING SOCIAL MEDIA.

AS A PROFESSOR, ACADEMIC, WE BOAST AND EXAGGERATE ABOUT HOW SMART WE ARE, LIKE CEOs AND ENTREPRENEURS EXAGGERATE ABOUT HOW RICH THEY ARE, ALL OF US ARE TRYING TO GET LIKES AND CLICKS AND SHOW US THAT WE ARE WORTHWHILE.

GET US SOME LOVE.

AND VIOLENT NEIGHBORHOODS, ONE OF THE BEST COMMODITIES YOU CAN BUILD FOR YOURSELF, SOCIAL STATUS.

IT STREAK READ.

A REPUTATION FOR TOUGHNESS.

OF COURSE, THIS IS ONLY ONLINE BUT WHAT WE OFTEN FORGET, AND I THINK IT IS LOST, PARTICULARLY IN MEDIA PORTRAYALS, THAT THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SEEMINGLY OVER VIOLENT POSE, CONTENT, PICTURES, THAT ARE BEING POSTED ONLINE EVERY SINGLE DAY, THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY LEADING TO CRIMES.

>> LANCE, WE HAVE HEARD FROM POLICE OFFICERS THAT SAY, YOU KNOW, WE ARE BEEFING UP OUR SOCIAL MEDIA MONITORING FOR THAT REASON BECAUSE SOMETIMES VIOLENT CRIMES START WITH THE POST AND BRAGGING.

IS THAT WE HAVE SEEN?

ACTUALLY, THERE IS NOT A HUGE CONNECTION.

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

WHAT I'M SEEING IN THE COURTS IS I.C.E.

PROSECUTION.

IC INVESTIGATIONS THAT ARE TRUMPING UP CHARGES AROUND SOCIAL MEDIA ACTIVITY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WHO MAY ALERT WITH STREET LIFE.

WE CALL THEM INTERNET GANGSTERS, SO TO SPEAK.

WE TALK ABOUT STUDIO GANGSTERS THAT ARE ONLY TOUGH AND GANG BANGING ONLINE BUT IN ACTUALITY IT IS NOT PLAYING THAT WAY IN THE STREETS.

SO, WHAT I'M SEEING IN THE COURTS IS A HEAVY FOCUS ON SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS CONNECTING THEM TO REAL-LIFE VIOLENT EVENTS OR ASSOCIATION -- GANG ASSOCIATION, AND WAYS THAT YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST FLIRTING OR GETTING CAUGHT UP IN THE REAL WEIGHT OF THE SYSTEM AND MANY OF THEM ARE DESTROYING OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY HAVE FOR A FUTURE GETTING LOCKED UP AND HAVING ALL KINDS OF NEGATIVE REPERCUSSIONS FROM THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA ACTIVITY.

>> IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU SAW WHERE YOUNG PEOPLE MIGHT'VE BEEN ENGAGING IN SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND HAS BEEN MONITORED AND IT WAS THE BASIS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT COMING IN AND TAKING SOME ACTION?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SOME OF THE PLACES WHERE I'VE SEEN IT THE MOST ARE ACTUALLY FROM THE PROBATION OFFICERS.

PROBATION OFFICERS FOLLOWING YOUNG MEN ON SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS AND IN INSTANCES THAT PROBATION OFFICERS THINK THAT THEY ARE ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE THEY ARE RECOMMENDING TO JUDGES TO VIOLATE THESE YOUNG BOYS AND SEND THEM BACK TO JAIL OR BACK TO PRISON.

ON ACCOUNT OF WHAT THEY'VE WRITTEN ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS.

I AM ENGAGED IN A NATIONAL RESEARCH PROJECT CURRENTLY NOW ALONGSIDE OTHER DEFENDERS WHERE WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE'S SENTENCES INCREASED.

WE ARE SEEING BALE DENIED OR REVOKED.

WE ARE SEEING ALL KINDS OF INCREASED PENALTIES BASED SOLELY, SOLELY, ON THE APPEARANCES OF A GUN.

WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT IS FAKE OR REAL OR IF THE DEFENDANT IS SHOWING OFF ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

THREATS, GANG SIGNS BEING FLASHED FROM A PARK.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ONCE THEY COME IN TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, THEY ARE ACTUALLY LEADING TO LONGER SENTENCES THAT, I MEAN, CERTAINLY I AND OTHER FOLKS THINK IS A REAL, KIND OF, INVISIBLE FORM OF INJUSTICE THAT A LOT OF US ARE ONLY BARELY BEGINNING TO SEE.

>> OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS.

FROM WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN, IS IT WORTH THE RESOURCES HERE FOR POLICE OFFICERS TO SPEND SO MUCH TIME MONITORING SOCIAL MEDIA?

IS IT BETTER USED ELSEWHERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

RESOURCES NEED TO BE DIRECTED ELSEWHERE.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING, PARTICULARLY IN LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATIONS, WE SEE INVESTIGATIONS THAT ARE LED BY INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE NO CLUE OF HOW SOCIAL MEDIA OPERATES.

THEY HAVE NO CLUE OF THE DESTRUCTION AND FUNCTION OF THE STREETS.

THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE, THE LANGUAGE, THEY ARE MISINTERPRETING A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE BEING SAID, ASSOCIATING ONE INCORRECT THING WITH ANOTHER INCORRECT THING AND THEN IMPLICATIONS FOR THAT, OF COURSE, ARE DEVASTATING FOR MANY PEOPLE WHO MAY BE INVOLVED PERIPHERALLY TO WHAT IS GOING