>> MARTIN: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK," SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M PHILLIP MARTIN, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, GBH NEWS CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING.

CALLIE CROSSLEY IS OFF.

TONIGHT: THE RISE OF RACE-BASED VIOLENCE, HATE, AND DISCRIMINATION.

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.ùAND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

IT'S BEEN A DIFFICULT WEEK.

THE MASS MURDER OF TEN AFRICAN AMERICANS AT A LOCAL BUFFALO, NEW YORK SUPERMARKET IN A PREDOMINANTLY BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD HAS LEFT PEOPLE SHAKEN AT THE ACT OF VIOLENCE AND HATE, CARRIED OUT BY A SELF-PROCLAIMED WHITE SUPREMACIST, WHO WAS INSPIRED BY THE SAME RACIST THEORY THAT LED TO THE MASSACRE OF 51 PEOPLE AT TWO NEW ZEALAND MOSQUES IN 2019.

THIS PERCEPTION OF "OTHERNESS" TOWARD PEOPLE OF COLOR IS WIDESPREAD.

WHEN THE WAR BROKE OUT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE, AFRICAN AND INDIAN STUDENTS LIVING AND ATTENDING SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY FOUND THEMSELVES IN A WAR ZONE FACING RACIAL DISCRIMINATION WHILE TRYING TO GET OUT OF HARM'S WAY.

THEY WERE TOLD ACCORDING TO REPORTS, "TO WAIT THEIR TURN," STAND BY AND LET WHITE REFUGEES ESCAPE THE CONFLICT.

HERE IN OUR AREA, DISCRIMINATION AND NEO-NAZISM IS ON THE RISE.

INCIDENTS OF RACIST PROPAGANDA AND VIOLENCE HAVE BEEN REPORTED, INCLUDING TARGETING LOCAL DOCTORS CALLING THEM, "ANTI-WHITE" FOR WANTING TO REMOVE INEQUITIES IN HEALTHCARE.

HOW ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR IMPACTED BY THE RISE OF DEVASTATING RACE-BASED VIOLENCE, HATE CRIMES, AND DISCRIMINATION BOTH HERE AND ABROAD?

JOINING US REMOTELY.

DR. SANDRA MATTAR, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, AND DIRECTOR OF TRAINING AT THE IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE HEALTH CENTER, BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER; DR. CLARENCE LUSANE, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND DIRECTOR OF THE INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS PROGRAM, HOWARD UNIVERSITY; AND BY PHONE, EVA CASTILLO, DIRECTOR OF THE NEW HAMPSHIRE ALLIANCE FOR IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES FOR M.I.R.A., THE MASSACHUSETTS IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE ADVOCACY COALITION.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Martin: WELL, WORLDWIDE, WE'RE SEEING SOME OF THESE INCIDENTS IN SOME OF THIS DISCUSSION TAKING PLACE WORLDWIDE BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE A UNIVERSALS PROBLEM.

BUT LET'S TURN OUR ATTENTION NOW TO UKRAINE.

IT'S ARGUED AND I BELIEVE CORRECTLY SO THAT THE OUTCOME OF RUSSIA'S WAR, ITS INVASION AGAINST UKRAINE, IS REALLY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EXPANDED AUTOCRACY, FRANKLY, WORLDWIDE, OR IN PERFECT DEMOCRACIES WORLDWIDE.

I'M SURE WE'LL OPT FOR DEMOCRACY, ALBEIT ITS IMPERFECTION.

HAVING SAID THAT, CLARENCE, IS THIS THE TIME TO BE FOCUSING ON RACISM IN UKRAINE AND ON ITS BORDERS?

>> FIRST, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

GLAD TO BE ON WITH YOUR OTHER GUESTS.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS THE TIME BECAUSE THESE ISSUES ARE NOT SEPARATE.

WE CAN GO BACK ALL THE WAY TO MARTIN LUTHER KING, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO TALKED ABOUT THE TRIPLETS OF POVERTY, MILITARISM AND DISCRIMINATION, AND WHEN WE SEE THAT IN THIS 2022 VERSION AROUND THE WORLD, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK HAS BEEN AN IMPORTANT OUTCOME, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN UKRAINE, IS THAT IT'S FOCUSED THE ATTENTION TO THE WORLD THAT EUROPE IS NOT ALL WHITE, THAT, IN EVERY PART OF EUROPE, YOU HAVE PEOPLE OF COLOR, WHETHER THEY ARE PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT, ASIA OR OTHER COMMUNITIES.

SO THESE ISSUES ARE INESCAPEDLY LINKED.

WHAT WE SAW IN UKRAINE AS RUSSIA INVADED, IT BROUGHT TO FOCUS SOME OF THE ISSUES PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT ARE FACING IN EUROPE.

EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY, THERE ARE SKINHEADS AND NEO-NAZIS, WHITE SUPREMACISTS, INCLUDING UKRAINE AND ALSO INCLUDING RUSSIA, WHICH HAS GOTTEN THE MOST MILITANT.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN TERMS OF WHETHER, IN THESE COUNTRIES, WHY NATIONALISTS HAVE PRETTY MUCH A FREE REIGN OR THERE'S SOME CONSTRAINTS.

IN UKRAINE WHERE THERE ARE WHITE NATIONALISTS AND EXTREMISTS, IT IS NOT WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN'S CLAIM THAT THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT AND, IN FACT, IN ALL OF THE COUNTRIES IN EASTERN EUROPE, PROBABLY THE SAFEST WAS AND REMAINS UKRAINE.

RUSSIA IS EXTREMELY UNSAFE NOT ONLY FOR PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE FROM THE CAUCUSES, A LOT OF DIFFERENT ASIAN COMMUNITIES, AND RUSSIA IS NOTORIOUS FOR THE DEGREE OVERVIOLENCE AGAINST PEOPLE OF COLOR -- OF VIOLENCE AGAINST PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> Martin: YES, YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT.

IN UKRAINE YOU HAVE SOMETHING CALLED THE AZAF BRIGADE MAIM OF FORMER AND CURRENT WHITE SUPREMACISTS, BUT IT'S NOT THE COUNTRY THAT'S RUN BY THEM.

YOU HAVE IN RUSSIA THE IMPERIAL MOVEMENT, WHICH IS ALSO A FASCIST MOVEMENT, BUT, ACTUALLY, CONSIDERABLY LARGER, I UNDERSTAND, THAN THE AZOF BRIGADE.

LET ME TURN TO ANOTHER TOPIC WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN UKRAINIANS COME TO THE UNITED STATES.

IN MARCH PRESIDENT BIDEN WELCOMED ABOUT 100,000 UKRAINIANS TO THE UNITED STATES, LIFTED TITLE 42, I THINK IT'S CALLED -- OR I SHOULD SAY MADE EXCEPTIONS FOR THEIR ARRIVAL IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND YOU ALSO HAVE THE DESIGNATION OF TEMPORARY PROTECTIVE STATUS FOR MANY UKRAINIANS, I THINK 42,000 CURRENTLY LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO, EVA, HOW DOES THAT JUXTAPOSE, IF YOU WILL, WITH THE STATUS OF OTHER IMMIGRANTS COMING HERE AND SEEKING ASYLUM -- THOSE, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM THE NORTHERN TRIANGLE, THOSE WHO MIGHT BE COMING FROM HAITI, SO ON AND SO FORTH -- HOW DOES THAT JUXTAPOSE?

>> WELL, IT'S TYPICAL OF THE HYPOCRISY OF THIS COUNTRY THAT WE GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHO GETS ADMITTED HERE AND WHO HAS AN EASIER PAST, IF YOU WILL.

IT TOOK FOREVER TO GET THE COUNTRIES LIKE VENEZUELA.

CAMERA ROON GOT DESIGNATED AS A TPS COUNTRY.

BUT, LIKE YOU SAY, THEY MADE AN EXCEPTION FOR UKRAINIANS COMING WITH TITLE 42, WHEN WE HAD TONS OF BROWN AND BLACK PEOPLE, HATIANS, LATINOS, WAITING FOREVER TO GET THEIR CHANCE TO COME HERE AND PRESENT THEIR CASES IN COURT, YET WE LIFTED THOSE SANCTIONS TO ALLOW THE UKRAINIANS TO COME.

SO THAT SPEAKS VERY LOUDLY ABOUT WHAT THE PRIORITIES AND THE VALUES OF THESE NATION ARE THAT, YES, WE DO HAVE -- WE'RE SUPPOSED TO ALL MEN BE CREATED EQUAL, BUT EQUAL IS NOT EQUAL FOR EVERYBODY.

>> Martin: EVA, I'LL HAVE THIS QUESTION TO YVONNE BOTH IN A LEGAL CONTEXT IN RESPONSE TO SOMETHING YOU SAID, EVA.

YOU HAVE TPS THAT HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO ABOUT 75,000 AFGHANS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES, AND T.P.S.

HAS BEEN EXTENDED AND RENEWED FOR ABOUT 40,000 HATIANS IN THE UNITED STATES, IF I'M CORRECT.

DOESN'T THAT SUGGEST A LEVEL OF EQUITY?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

IT'S TAKING A LOT OF TIME TO GET THEM.

LOOK AT THE CAMEROONIANS, THEY BASICALLY JUST GOT IT LAST MONTH OR SO, YOU KNOW.

SO IT TAKES A LOT OF WORK TO GET THINGS DONE IF YOU'RE A PERSON OF COLOR, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ANY TYPE OF PATH, YET WE MADE IT EASY TO ACCEPT PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW THE MAJORITY OF THE U.S. THAT WANTS TO BE WHITE AND IT'S A WHITE COUNTRY.

SO.

>> Martin: EVA, SEEMS LIKE, YVONNE, YOU WERE AGREEING WITH EVA'S POINT, COULD YOU ELABORATE?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, I TEND TO AGREE, AND I THINK WE TEND TO COMPARTMENTALIZE THESE ISSUES.

WE TEND TO THINK WHAT HAPPENS IN UKRAINE DOESN'T AFFECT US HERE AND FAR FROM IT.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN UKRAINE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE TREATMENT OF COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, THAT HAS AN IMPACT DIRECTLY IN THE UNITED STATES.

THESE MOMENTS OF CRISIS EXACERBATE AND REINFORCE HISTORICAL INEQUITIES.

IT REINFORCES HISTORICAL INJUSTICES WHO WE SEE AS BEING DESERVING OF HUMANITARIAN RELIEF, SO WE OPEN THE DOOR TO UKRAINIAN IMMIGRANTS WHILE CLOSING THE DOOR OF BLACK HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE AT THE BORDER, TRYING TO COME INTO THE COUNTRY AND WHO NEED THE SAME TYPES OF PROTECTIONS AS OTHER IMMIGRANTS.

SO THIS IDEA OF PICKING AND CHOOSING WHO WE ALLOW IN IS DEEPLY PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE IT'S EMBEDDED WITH NOTIONS OF RACE, NOTIONS OF WHO DESERVES LEGAL PROTECTIONS, WHO WE SHOULD BE SAVING AND IN WHAT ORDER WE SHOULD BE SAVING THEM, AND THAT IS EMBEDDED DEEPLY WITH NOTIONS OF RACE.

AND, SO, IT'S NO SURPRISE, THEN, THAT WE SEE BOTH IN UKRAINE AND IN OUR BORDER, THE SOUTHERN BORDER OF THE UNITED STATES THESE DYNAMICS AT PLAY WHERE, IN UKRAINE, PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE BEING TOLD, YOU KNOW, GO TO THE BACK OF THE LINE, WE'RE GOING TO SAVE YOU LAST, AND IN THE U.S. BORDER, WE ARE SEEING SIMILAR DYNAMICS OF BLACK HAITIAN IMMIGRANT FAMILIES BEING ROUNDED UP LIKE SLAVES AND CATTLE AND IMAGES THAT ARE HORRIFYING, WHILE WE MAKE EXCEPTIONS FOR OTHER IMMIGRANTS FROM COUNTRIES THAT WE CONSIDER TO BE MORE DESERVING.

AND I WANT TO UNDERSCORE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING NOW WITH THIS PARTICULAR CRISIS IN UKRAINE, BUT, AS YOU ALLUDED TO, PHILLIP, THIS IS A GLOBAL ISSUE, CONCERNS SURROUNDING ANTI-BLACKNESS, IN PARTICULAR.

>> Martin: YVONNE, WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW UP IN A MOMENT ON THIS WITH ALL FOUR OF YOU, ON HOW THIS IS PROMULGATED WORLDWIDE WITH A SO-CALLED GREAT REPLACEMENT OF WHITES, WHETHER IT BE IN FRANCE OR THE UNITED STATES.

RIGHT NOW, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK SANDRA THIS QUESTION ABOUT TRAUMA: WHEN YOU SEE FOLKS, AS YOU SAY, STUCK IN UKRAINE -- BLACK, INDIANS, AFGHANS, IN SOME CASES IRAQIS WHO HAVE BEEN LIVING IN KYIV FOR YEARS AND HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE THEIR WAY TO THE BORDER AND THEN FIND THEMSELVES IN POLAND OR HUNGARY AND OTHER COUNTRIES AND STILL FACING DISCRIMINATION, AND THEN YOU SEE A SITUATION WHERE HATIANS ARE FLEEING VIOLENCE THERE, SALVADORIANS ARE FLEEING VIOLENCE IN EL SALVADOR.

THE GANG VIOLENCE, SO ON AND SO FORTH, AND THIS BRINGS UP THE QUESTION OF TRAUMA.

WE'VE SEEN THE TRAUMA INFLICTED ON UKRAINIANS.

WHAT ABOUT THE TRAUMA ALSO BE EXPERIENCED BY GROUPS IN THIS COUNTRY WHO WE ARE NO LONGER PAYING THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO.

WHAT'S BEEN YOUR EXPERIENCE RIGHT NOW, SANDRA?

>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

IT'S INTERESTING HOW THE WAR AND WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH BLACK IMMIGRANTS IN UKRAINE REVERBERATES HERE AS YVONNE MENTIONED.

I HAPPENED TO WORK AT THE REFUGEE PLANT AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTERS AND 90% OF MAY WORKLOAD ARE SURVIVORS FROM AFRICA.

IN THERAPY, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE IMAGES THEY'RE WATCHING IN UKRAINE AND HOW SCARED AND VULNERABLE THEY FEEL, AS ONE PATIENT TOLD ME, THAT COULD BE ME.

AND THAT THAT COULD BE ME IS THEIR EXPERIENCE HERE IN THE U.S., HOW THEY'RE STARTING TO FEEL WHEN THEY ARRIVE.

THEY EXPERIENCE A CERTAIN KIND OF TREATMENT THEY HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED BEFORE ON AVERAGE IN THEIR COUNTRIES BECAUSE THEY WERE THE MAJORITY, AND THAT FEELING OF BEING THE OTHER, IT'S UTTER BETRAYAL, IT'S SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT BUZZ THEY COME TO -- BECAUSE THEY COME TO THE U.S. WITH THE IDEAS ABOUT WHAT THE U.S.

NEEDS AND THE FREEDOM THAT THEY ARE ENTITLED TO IN THE U.S., AND THAT THEY CAN WALK AS FREE CITIZENS HERE AND, YET, THEY EXPERIENCE DIFFERENTIAL TREATMENT.

AND, SO, IT'S NO SURPRISE WHAT THEY SEE THERE ON THE NEWS AND WHAT THEY EXPERIENCE HERE, AND THAT ADDS TO THE IDEA OF INSTITUTIONAL BETRAYAL, RIGHT, AND THE IDEA THAT THERE'S THIS SORT OF MORAL INJURE THAT ADDS TO THEIR SYMPTOMS OF POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, THERE ARE SYMPTOMS OF MAJOR DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY DISORDER.

IT'S REALLY VERY COMPLEX.

>> Martin: AND WE'VE SEEN THAT TRAUMA PLAY OUT AROUND THIS COUNTRY, WE'VE SEEN IT PLAY OUT AROUND THE WORLD.

AS YVONNE SAID, WE'RE EXPERIENCING PARTICULARLY ANTI-BLACKNESS THAT'S BEING MANIFEST EVERYWHERE, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, BUT OTHER PEOPLE, OF COURSE, ARE ALSO FEELING THE TRAUMA, THE TRAUMA, FOR, EXAMPLE, THE REVERBERATIONS FROM THIS SHOOTING, THIS MASSACRE IN BUFFALO THIS PAST WEEK, AND THIS OTHERLINESS IS AMPLIFIED BY THE NOTION THAT HAS BEEN ADVANCED INITIALLY BY A FRENCH NOVELIST, REKNOLLED CAMU, NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH ALBERT CAMU, ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE BEING REPLACED BY OTHER PEOPLE BEING ARRANGED BY THIS JEWISH KABAL AROUND THE WORLD.

HAVE YOU SEEN THIS PLAY OUT, THIS GREAT REPLACEMENT NOTION THAT'S PRIEF RATING THROUGH OUR SOCIETY FROM CABLE NEWS TO SOCIAL MEDIA?

LET'S TALK TO ALL OUR PANELS WITH THE SAME QUESTION, STARTING WITH YOU, CLARENCE.

>> SO THIS IS NOT JUST A THEORY, BUT IT'S A CALL TO ACTION, AND FOR WHITE NATIONALISM, WHITE SUPREMACISTUM AROUND THE WORLD, THEY HAVE NOT JUST READ THE THEORY AND CIRCULATED IT BUT HAVE TRIED TO IMPLEMENT IT.

YOU CAN GO BACK TO NORWAY, FOR EXAMPLE, IN 2011, WHEN ANDERS BLEW UP A BUILDING, USED THAT AS A DISTRACTION TO THEN GO TO AN ISLAND AND THEN MURDER ALMOST 70 MOSTLY YOUNG PEOPLE.

ALL OF THIS WAS DRIVEN BY THIS NOTION THAT ISLAM AND PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE INVADING EUROPE AND ARE BEING COLLABORATED WITH BY WEAK LEADERS.

AND, SO, THE ATTACKS ON THESE PARTICULAR POLITICAL PARTY WAS TO TRY TO PUSH THAT KIND OF AGENDA.

IT WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF ARGUING THAT REPLACEMENT IS HAPPENING.

SO HE ISSUED ALL OF THAT IN A MANIFESTO.

SO WHAT WE'VE SEEN FOLLOWING THAT -- NEW ZEALAND AND ELSEWHERE -- ARE PICKING UP THIS THREAD.

NEW ZEALAND I FEEL PARTICULARLY LINKED TO ABOUT A YEAR BEFORE KILLINGS AT THE TWO MOSQUES, I WAS IN NEW ZEALAND GIVING TALKS, AND I GAVE A TALK IN IN CHRIST'S CHURCH, AND SOME OF THE STUDENTS WERE KILLED BY THE MURDEROUS RAMPAGE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.

WE'VE SEEN THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN.

ONE THING I WOULD UNDERLINE, IN THESE MANIFESTOS, AND I TRIED TO FORCE MYSELF TO READ THROUGH THEM, IS THEY NOT ONLY TALK ABOUT THIS REPLACEMENT THEORY, BUT THEY ALSO CITE THE PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING IN THE U.S., WHO ARE ARTICULATING THIS THAT ARE CONSIDERED MAINSTREAM, FROM TUCKER CARLSON TO OTHERS, WHO GET NAME CHECKED BECAUSE THEY ARE PROMOTING THIS THEORY.

THEY MAY NOT USE THE SINCERELY EXTREMIST OR RACIST LANGUAGE, BUT THEY'RE STARTING TO PUSH IT, AND IT GOES FROM THE BOTTOM UP TO THE TOP, INCLUDING I WOULD ADD DONALD TRUMP.

>> Martin: SPEAKING OF STUDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING THIS ON CAMPUS, THEY ALL CITE DONALD TRUMP AS THE PROVINANCE OF THIS CURRENT MANIFESTATION, BUT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS -- EXAMPLES INCLUDE THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT, YOU EUGENICS, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

A CALL TO ACTION, HOW ARE YOU SEEING THAT WITH -- IN TREATING YOUR CLIENTS, IF YOU WILL, AND PEOPLE WHO YOU WORK WITH, IN A BROADER SENSE?

>> YES, YES, THANK YOU.

AND BY THE WAY, DR. LUSANE, I WAS IN NORWAY WHEN THAT HAPPENED.

I STILL REMEMBER THE SOUND OF THE BOMB, THE BUILDING EXPLODING AND THE THESE ARE THIS WAS A LONE WOLF.

THERE ARE NO LONE WOLVES OUT THERE.

THIS IS MORE A CONCERTED EFFORT TO -- I BELIEVE A WHITE SUPREMACIST EFFORT TO EFFORT TO PORTRAY PEOPLE OF COLOR AS A THREAT TO THEIR EXISTENCE.

BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, CERTAINLY, THERE IS THIS IDEA I CANNOT BE SAFE IN MY BODY OR MY OWN COUNTRY, AND, SO, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO YOUR MENTAL HEALTH?

YOU ARE ON HYPER ALERT, HYPERVIGILANCE CONSTANTLY, WHICH ARE THE CLEAR SOME OF THE MAIN SYMPTOMS OF POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER.

YOU SUFFER FROM RACIAL-BASED TRAUMATIC STRESS, AND YOU CANNOT BE ADD EASE.

YOU CANNOT EVEN BREATHE AT EASE.

SO THIS HAS SIGNIFICANT IMPLICATIONS TO YOUR SENSE OF SAFETY IN THE WORLD, YOUR SENSE OF IDENTITY, YOUR SENSE OF TRUST AND FUNCTION OUT THERE IN THE WORLD.

AND, SO, THERE IS NO PLACE WHERE YOU CAN FEEL SAFE EXCEPT FOR A FEW PLACES IN YOUR COMMUNITY, AND THAT WANT HAS SIGNIFICANT IMPLICATIONS TO YOUR HEALTH, RIGHT, TO YOUR LIFE SPAN, TO YOUR SENSE OF WELL BEING.

>> Martin: WITHOUT QUESTION.

IT IS A HEALTH PROBLEM.

>> Martin: WITHOUT QUESTION.

AND, YVONNE, THAT VERY POINT, YOU HAVE BEEN AND THE LAWYERS COMMITTEE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON A NUMBER OF CASES WHERE THIS OTHERLINESS, IF YOU WILL, HAS MANIFESTED AND WHERE FOLKS FEEL THEY ARE REACTING TO THE NOTION THAT THEY ARE BEING REPLACED, SO, THEREFORE, TARGETING FOLKS WHO YOU WORK WITH.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?

>> THIS NOTION, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, PHILLIP, CERTAINLY IS NOT NEW.

I MEAN, WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH DISCOURSE, GOING BACK, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH IS REALLY HORRIFYING ABOUT THIS CONCEPT OF ANCHOR BABIES OR ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT IDEAS AND NOTIONS THAT ARE SERIOUSLY PROBABLE NAUGHT PROBLEMATIC.

IN SOME WAYS, THEY ARE A BACKLASH TO THE GROWTH AS THE COUNTRY CONTINUES TO DIVERSIFY, AS PEOPLE OF COLOR CONTINUE TO HAVE MORE VISIBLE LEADERSHIP ROLES AND THAT IS THE BACKLASH AND THAT'S CONFIRMED NOT JUST THROUGH THE ANECDOTES OF THE WORK THAT WE DO AND THE CLIENTS AND EXPERIENCES OF LAWYERS OF CIVIL RIGHTS BUT ALSO BY FEDERAL AUTHORITIES -- F.B.I.

STATISTICS CONFIRM THE SHARP IS INCREASE IN HATE CRIMES.

THIS ISN'T AN ISSUE OF PERCEPTION OF INSECURITY ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT DR. LIEU SAN OR MATTAR ARE TALKING ABOUT, THIS IS CONCRETE FACT AND MEASURABLE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF INCIDENTS WHERE VIOLENCE IS PERPETRATED AND THAT IS SKYROCKETING ACROSS THE COUNTRY INCLUDING IN MASSACHUSETTS.

ANDAND, SO, LAWYERS OF CIVIL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN ACTIVELY WORKING TO PROTECT VICTIMS OF HATE CRIMES, DEMANDING ACCOUNTABILITY IN JUST AND COMPLETE INVESTIGATIONS.

LAW ENFORCEMENT IS OFTEN VERY LACKS ABOUT THIS, IN A WAY THAT FRANKLY PERPETUATES AND CONTINUES TO ENCOURAGE IN A WAY, BECAUSE IT FOSTERS A CLIMATE OF IMPUNITY, AND, SO, IF YOU DON'T SEND A CLEAR SIGNAL THAT THIS IS NOT TOLERATED, THAT YOU WILL BE PROSECUTED FOR ATTACKING VIOLENTLY SOMEBODY FOR SPEAKING SPANISH IN PUBLIC OR ATTACKING VIOLENTLY SOMEONE BASED ON THEIR IDENTITY, THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROLIFERATION OF THOSE INCIDENTS, OR WORSE AS WE SAW IN THE MASSACRE IN BUFFALO.

>> Martin: WE DID INDEED.

WE NEED TO DO MORE LEGAL ACTION BUT ALSO PUSH THE FEDERAL AUTHORITIES TO TAKE THESE MATTERS SERIOUSLY, SEND A SIGNAL ACROSS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Martin: IN A SECOND, I'M GOING TO ALSO ASK THE FOUR OF YOU WITHIN JUST A FEW MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT POSSIBLE WAYS OF PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS CONCEPT OF REPLACEMENT.

BUT, EVA, FINALLY, IN THIS VEIN, IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS STREAM, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW THE PEOPLE YOU WORK WITH, IMMIGRANTS, HAVE BASICALLY BEEN AFFECTED BY THIS, THE NOTION OF BEING TARGETED?

>> WELL, IT HAS AFFECTED ALL OF US, INCLUDING MYSELF.

I COULD PASS FOR A WHITE PERSON, YET, YOU KNOW, I'M SUBJECT TO THE STEREOTYPES AND EVERYTHING.

IF I USE MY MARRIED NAME, PEOPLE WITH MY MARRIED NAME TREATED ME MUCH BETTER THAN EVA CASTILLO.

IT'S A MATTER OF PERCEPTION LIKE SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE PANEL SAID.

WE'RE NOT WORTHY OF HAVING EQUALITY.

I HAVE A MEXICAN SON, AND I SEE HOW HE'S BEING TARGETED FOR JUST BEING WHO HE IS IN THE STORE COMPARED TO MY WHITE KIDS.

WHENEVER I WENT TO THE BIG STORES WITH HIM, THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, TAG ALONG HIM TO MAKE SURE THAT HE WAS NOT SHOPLIFTING.

THAT NEVER HAPPENED TO MY OWN SON.

AND WITH MYSELF, I'M SO TERRIFIED THAT I CARRY MY U.S. PASSPORT CARD IN MY WALLET, KNOWING FULL WELL THAT I'M NOT GOING TO BE PROFILED, BUT I'M TERRIFIED OF BEING TREATED OR BEING SUSPECTED OF BEING AN OTHER.

IF I OPEN MY POCKETBOOK IN A STORE TO GET MY GLASSES OUT, I GO IN THE MIDDLE OF THE AISLE, AND VERY CONSPICUOUSLY OPEN MY PURSE TO GET MY THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT I'M STEALING SOMETHING.

THAT SHOULD NOT BE -- I HAVE BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY MOST OF MY LIFE.

I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 41 YEARS, BUT IT'S SO EMBEDDED IN ME THAT I AM THE OTHER AND I DO NOT BELONG.

AND THESE ARE SUBTLE SIGNS AND PEOPLE ARE VERY VISUAL, TOO.

>> Martin: WE'RE COUNTING DOWN RAPIDLY AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU IN THE SECOND PART OF OUR PROGRAM WHICH IS, OF COURSE, ON Facebook AND SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

BUT LET ME ASK, JUST VERY QUICKLY, IF YOU FEEL THAT THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER TIME THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED OVER THE YEARS, JUST VERY QUICKLY.

CLARENCE, VERY QUICKLY.

>> YES, I DO THINK IT'S DIFFERENT.

I THINK, AS IVAN POINTS OUT, WHERE THERE'S BEEN A LONG HISTORY, THERE'S NEVER BEEN A MOMENT WHERE WHITES THOUGHT THEY WOULD BASICALLY LOSE POWER.

BUT WITH THE DEMOGRAPHIC PROJECTIONS PUT OUT IN THE LAST 20 YEARS OR SO, YOU BEGIN TO SEE THAT.

THE LATEST POLLS SHOW A THIRD OF PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY, A THIRD OF AMERICANS BELIEVE IN THIS REPLACEMENT THEORY OF SOME SORT, AND WHEN YOU BREAK THAT DOWN BY PARTY, YOU'RE PROBABLY TALKING OVER A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A DIFFERENT ERA.

>> Martin: YOU ARE INDEED.

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU.

THIS HAS BEEN AN EXTRAORDINARY PROD CAST.

THERE'S THE END OF OUR SHOW, AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING USED STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

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