>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in 1988, the year that two American rituals peaked in frequency.

One was newspaper subscriptions, the other was call in request lines for pop radio shows.

Do you remember the time when you had to hope that a favorite song would get played on the radio?

And maybe, like me, you'd be sitting waiting to record it on a cassette tape at home.

I always wanted the DJ to stop talking over the intro so I could get the song as pure as possible.

And then as I got older, I realized there just hitting the post, man, there's an art to that.

In those days, we got to know the people sharing the music.

The mayor, Pete Kennedy, Kano, Scott, Regan, Scott still doing great stuff here.

And of course we came to rely on the wisdom of people like the Chicanos of the world to bring us not only the hits, but the overlooked wonders.

Some radio luminaries were practically music historians.

Some are great musicians in their own right, like Maureen Rich.

And today we don't have to wait a single minute if we want a particular song.

It is all immediately accessible.

And so the recent retirement of two local luminaries feels like the unofficial outlining of a particular American era.

Dave Kane and Maureen Rich have retired.

Listeners say that their shows breakfast with the Beatles Road to Joy, most recently, are already missed, and they're going to join us talking about what has changed in some of the culture here.

Maybe we'll tell some stories.

Maybe we'll make the case for why calling in to request a song might be more time consuming, but it beats just having the entire catalog of music ever made right at your fingertips.

Here.

Dave Kane, Breakfast with the Beatles so much I mean, a career that goes back, I can't even list the full resume, but it's great to have you in studio.

>> Thank you.

It's great to see you.

I appreciate the invite and and the high praise, you know.

Thanks very much.

>> You're one of the great radio voices, man.

Just Dave's one of the best.

Maureen Rich is on the line with us somewhere in the Midwest.

I think the retired host of road to Joy on the route.

Where are you now, Maureen?

>> Well, I haven't quite made it out of New York.

>> Oh, but we're close to New York.

>> We were planning on leaving earlier, but you know how plans go, huh?

>> Well, it's nice.

>> We're still on the thruway, but we pulled over.

>> Well, it's nice to have you.

Thank you for being generous with your time.

Maureen.

Kano.

The same.

And it was interesting to me when I looked up some of that data that found 1988 was both the peak for newspaper subscriptions and request line shows, and that feels sad.

That that was almost 40 years ago.

Does that blow your mind?

No, no.

>> Everything was so long ago.

You know, it doesn't.

So I don't I don't recognize anything anymore.

>> More.

Maureen, is that wild to you to think it was almost 40 years ago?

>> Well, I guess, you know, I think it's still going for me.

It's still going on now.

So you know we just keep rolling with the changes, you know?

but what we do is, is very different than what you might find on some of the other services.

And I, you know, it's still going on.

You know, we're leaving it behind to others to carry the torch, but it's still exists.

>> You know, Evan, you mentioned that 1988 was the year that it peaked.

Okay.

But there were plenty of years where it was building up to that peak, and it went through all kinds of, you know, the amount of calls and the kinds of calls.

And then there's contesting calls.

But you learn a lot about the audience when you're live and local, and when the radio station, as well as the workforce is 24/7, which is why overnight personalities were so crucial, at least in this town.

And beloved and accessible.

And you also got insight into what kind of people are listening to the radio at three in the morning.

I when I started, I did overnights, not on CMF, but on the old magic 92.

And you may you, you get with some very interesting folks on the phone, that's for sure.

>> Do you agree with that, Maureen?

>> I guess so.

I never did overnight.

Thank goodness.

>> The interesting people weren't limited.

They weren't limited to just overnights.

But that was a special breed, for sure.

>> I mean, that's what.

>> I.

>> Oh, go ahead.

>> Maria.

Overnight they did overnights on on am they did, a, you know, blues show overnight.

And you know, with WXXI but automation sort of took care of that.

>> Well, I mean, that's the thing about part of what we're going to be talking about this hour is the cost of technological change.

But I will say, when I was growing up, that's what I wanted to do.

You know, I don't know if I wanted to work overnight, although when I was in college at Ohio University, my first ever job on any airwave anywhere was on a campus cable radio, 12 to 6.

Midnight to six.

>> Yeah.

Carry current where it was just on the buildings in on campus.

Yeah, yeah.

So same.

>> Thing midnight to six, when I could be sure that.

Who was listening.

But, you know, it always surprises you.

>> But it doesn't, at least for me and the people that I I started in radio with in college once.

It didn't matter if you were carrier current or ten watts or whatever.

Once you slapped on those headphones and you opened up the microphone and we're talking, you're on the radio.

Yeah.

So the vibe was there.

>> There was a magic.

I grew up in Cleveland.

Where in in the 80s into the 90s, there were a lot of shifts in ownership in local FM radio.

And so the station that I had listened to for a while in like 1991 or 92, 107.9, it became the end, as in the end of the dial.

Very clever name.

So my friend and I in my basement created 87.1 The beginning, which was our way of being cheeky.

And I've got old cassette tapes which are not going to be played today.

Sorry.

>> I have mine too.

>> Of, you know, 15-year-old me and a friend doing a five song countdown.

That's what I mean to me.

I idolized that.

>> You're quite cheeky.

You were?

Yeah.

>> I don't know about cheeky, I think embarrassing, but I mean, Dave and Maureen.

I'll start with you, Dave.

I mean, you were saying right before the program, you can still remember your first broadcast.

>> Absolutely.

It was I had, landed a weekend gig in Geneva.

I was a couple of months out of college in Brockport.

This is early fall of 79, and I was hired to do six to midnight on Saturdays and Sundays playing you know, adult contemporary Barry Manilow, Commodores, that sort of thing.

And I remember my, my first shift, I was all excited, and I got in there and I'm doing the format and you know, the program director called, and he said I sounded very good.

You don't have to say your name so much.

I said, okay.

I must be nice.

Dave, can I?

Yeah, but no, I remember it was.

Yeah, I was I was thrilled to death.

>> You didn't care again.

How many people are listening?

What are you getting paid?

It was just the magic of that opportunity, right?

>> Yeah.

Because the weekend very quickly morphed into full time.

There was a lot of turnovers, a nice little springboard station.

And you know, I was only there, I think, tops about six months tops.

But yeah, it was it was exciting to go and work and be on the radio and.

What was the original question?

I just.

>> Look at you.

Well, that's why you retired, Dave.

Maureen, do you remember your first broadcast?

>> I well, I came to WXXI to.

I was working for Reachout radio, which was the reading service for the visually impaired.

And so I started out, I volunteered to read newspapers, and I remember the first day that I did it, I was so nervous to.

I had never been on the air before.

And, and I remember thinking, well, if I don't get less nervous than this, I can't do this, you know?

And there was a priest who was reading ahead of me, and the door opened up and it was my turn to go in or.

No, he was after me.

That's right.

And he opened up the door at the end and he was like, get out, get out.

And I was like, oh, okay, all right.

But anyway, that all that discomfort didn't last very long, I, you know, was bitten by the bug.

And, and before I knew it, I was, you know, working as a board operator for them and, and you know, that lasted for almost 20 years.

and in the meantime, I developed, you know, my love for music continued to be for for front and center for me and, and eventually I, you know, was asked to sub in at WRC and, that's how I got my own music show.

Before that, it was more information and so, you know, local news information for people who are blind.

>> Yeah.

>> So I also did volunteering at Reachout radio.

Maureen, were you there when it was out right next to the transmitter on Townline Road in that little shack.

>> On French Road?

>> Yeah.

French road.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> I, I did.

>> That's where I started.

>> Yeah, I was charged with reading.

local news tidbits in the obituaries because, you know, people had to find out which ones are their friends, you know, past.

So did that for a while.

That was great.

>> Yeah.

And what you what you talk about Kano, not only the volunteer work that both of you did, but getting to know your audience.

So when you're working overnight, you get to know the listeners, you get to know what they're into, especially when they call in a request.

But really, any shift, one of the things I fear, and this is maybe an extension of part of the conversation of last hour, is what happens when we don't have, you know, sort of that, that glue that connects us.

And I think for a long time you were part of the glue.

Are you worried about that, Dave?

>> Well, no, because it's here.

It's happened.

But you know, that disconnect.

>> You're very fatalistic about it.

>> Well, it's the truth.

I mean, we saw this coming, you know, as bigger and bigger companies own more and more radio stations.

You know, the object is to cut costs and maximize profits.

And, you know, media markets like Rochester and smaller, but just not worth the money except to keep the lights on to pay full time salaries and benefits.

And they maximize the talents of the larger market people that they employ.

And they say, hey, look, you know, we're gonna give you an extra 500 bucks a month and you're going to be on in Rochester from, you know 2 to 6.

And so get familiar with that, learn the pronunciation.

>> Yeah.

Good luck.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, it's the same learn the pronunciation, I remember.

I bet you this was 20 years ago now the first.

So I was working in local television news at the time, and one of our local stations strikes up this corporate partnership, which was again a way to cut costs.

And so out of the hub and Baltimore they're doing, they just started by doing the weather out of Baltimore.

So the weather for all of these markets across the country and the meteorologist is talking about the temperature tomorrow in chili, New York.

>> Yeah, yeah.

You know, that's.

>> We got a lot that will trip people up around here.

>> Chili Avon Charlotte, you.

>> Know.

Yeah.

>> Lima just.

>> For starters.

Right.

As soon as they say they go you're not from here.

>> Yeah, exactly.

And you.

>> Know, and unfortunately live and local has for the most part almost completely gone away.

It's a cost, you know, because radio stations now work and have for some time work for shareholders.

We don't work for the listeners or they didn't work for the listeners.

It's all about that bottom line.

And the smaller markets like this just don't warrant the kind of support.

Read that as full time, live and local personalities and for the longest time and all my contemporaries in town who've been here for a long time and and that certainly speaks to the allure and, and just the magic of being in this particular city, doing what we did and for whom we did it for.

And that connection.

I love that that kinship, that relationship that I built over 40 plus years.

And I know, you know, some of my friends who put in similar amounts of time, same thing.

You would see us at a Red wings game or at Wegmans or at a school play, you know.

>> Just hear your voice.

>> We were out there and accessible and and you could reach us on the telephone.

Now.

I think people would be shocked to know how much of, you know, the full time air talent in Rochester is prerecorded and coming from somewhere else.

It's shocking and it's very demoralizing.

But again, you know, that's progress.

>> I guess that's progress.

>> That's progress.

And the technology certainly made my job easier to an extent.

You know, computers and things like that, not having to queue up records and things like that, just, you know, pointing, you know, and what, you know, drag and drop and click and, and that certainly made it easy.

And it made running the radio station easier, but it also made it easier to replace at first overnight jocks and unrated time and a non-monetized time.

No, no need to play pay a full time salary and benefits, will automate it and just have station slogans in there.

Oh, and then the same policy.

So, you know, we don't need the nighttime guy to 6:00 guy or gal.

And then it was middays.

it's just a bridge in between, Am and P.M.

drive.

So we'll keep the live afternoons and live mornings, and we'll automate or, you know, fill in with the other ones.

And, you know, we knew it was coming and it did.

And what has sadly also happened to all these, you know, the big companies that own all the radio stations, in addition to the loss of live and local, with that loss comes the distinction of now, this radio station, WXXI, is just an app.

We're just an app.

And you broadcast the the company line, you know, you you share national advertisers, you share syndicated shows.

And you can get it on your phone and you like the Detroit Lions.

You can listen to their games on the Detroit station while you're in Rochester.

So you can listen to anybody, anywhere, anything.

So there's no need for live and local in their book.

>> So is that progress?

Maureen?

>> I think that in some respects, yes.

But I do think that there is a place for local you know, and that's one of the things that public broadcasting does that the others can't or don't, don't want to so, you know, it's another great reason to support your public station.

>> Absolutely.

>> Yeah.

>> And because we do that still, we still have that heart.

I guess I, you know, I feel like, oh, you're breaking my heart, Dave.

but I know you're right.

And but we still we still have that kind of heart here.

>> It's important.

And that's what drew me to, you know, to getting involved.

You know, here at WXXI and where you are, because it's live and it's local and it relates to people and it's we're we're happy to focus, you know, on the smaller local picture.

and I think, you know, with the changing landscape of the availability of people to access music, I mean, you know, remember in 80s, in the 90s, no internet, no streaming, no downloading, no nothing.

You either listen to the radio or you went out and you bought the record or the CD or the cassette, and you listen to it at home or in the car.

That's it.

You're excited when you know, hey, Friday at 5 p.m., we'll have the new, you know, LED Zeppelin thing that nobody else has.

And, you know.

>> And it was an event when an album would drop, right?

It was an event.

>> Because there were no other sources for it, you know.

Now, you know, anything's on the internet for, for better or for worse.

but with that technological advancements, you know, radio became radio.

You know, there's a there's a generation a lot of the audience.

I think that makes up WXXI and W.R.

and similar noncom stations, noncommercial stations is you know, that it cuts through all the clutter and that it's live and local and it's it feels there's a connection.

You know, there is a a definite connection there that you lose when you know, you can you know, the listeners, I think most of them still remember the radio listening experience waiting for your song to come on.

That's right.

I'm waiting for that contest to start now.

It's like, no, there.

You know, that's also something of the past.

There is no quintessential radio listener anymore.

>> Yeah, it feels that way.

we're going to take Mark and Rochester's call in just a second.

I've got some emails to share as we talk about the changes here.

Dave Kane, Maureen Rich, recently retired.

and you know, them from their work over the years with Maureen, DeJoy.

Dave recently with breakfast with the Beatles, although, again, I mean, these are two people who a lot of people have heard their voices over the years and appreciated their work for exactly the reasons that Dave and Maureen are talking about, not just the fact that, hey, they played that song that late, but they were the community.

They knew the community.

They listened to the community.

And I do appreciate both of them talking about public media because I think Megan Mack when was it you went to New Orleans for a conference?

A number of years ago.

Wasn't that long ago.

And it was like talking to our colleagues, even in public radio and public media around the country.

It was like, you have a local talk show.

And then the ones that did it was, it's more than one hour.

I mean, it was a shock.

Yeah.

This used to be common.

And these things are not common anymore.

And there's a choice, Dave, when you talk about it was inevitable when you saw the writing on the wall, like we knew this was coming.

That's the same thing for it's like people are like, well, why are all the stores closing?

Well, did you order from Amazon or did you go to the store?

I mean, like I get that it's progress in a way that you can never have to leave your house and you can get it delivered right to your door.

That's nice, but don't be surprised when the store is closed.

>> Yeah, and you can't fault people for having choice.

You know, more choices.

>> Yeah, I use Amazon sometimes, like I'm guilty, but I'm just saying, like, we have to know as a society what our choices are going to lead to.

>> Yeah.

The other thing, when it was all live and local and personality based that they were great rivalries in town, there were some very strong pitched rivalries I know, especially.

>> Who did you hate the most?

>> We didn't hate anybody, but naturally.

All right.

So I spent my first 13 months on the radio in Rochester on the old Magic 92, the album station, before it became Q92 and Kick Rock and roll.

And when they, you know, I had already jumped ship over to CMF and here comes, you know, they're taking shots at us and they're showing up at our promotions, you know, so we start, you know, little, you know, street guerrilla kind of quote, unquote warfare.

We just took to the streets and we became the street station.

And they were, you know, just, you know, just kind of floundering around.

But we disliked them.

So this is in the day before internet.

And if a new release was coming, you couldn't download it.

You had to go to the bus station.

Sorry, I'm sending it to you.

It'll be at the at the bus station from Cleveland.

It would come and it'll be there at five.

So we'd send an intern down there, make sure you get our package.

And if there's any other packages for other radio stations, get them to.

And that happened once or twice.

So.

>> Maureen, you're too lovely to have any rivalries like this, aren't you?

>> Oh, my gosh.

>> Yeah, well, I don't know.

Yes.

>> I find.

>> That that's hilarious.

>> Yeah.

>> And true.

and true.

>> Yeah.

We did not compete for for.

I did not compete for listeners that way.

but wow.

That's that's an awesome story, Dave.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's now they're on.

Unfortunately, there are no more stories.

I'm sorry.

That's that's no right.

There are stories being made.

There are live and local personalities.

A much smaller number.

And it depends on the ownership.

It depends on where they are, the size of the market.

the smaller companies tend to still believe and deliver live and local.

>> Well, let me grab a phone call from Mark in Rochester who's been waiting to jump in.

Hey, Mark, go ahead.

>> Hey, guys.

Actually it's Mike.

>> Oh, Mike.

Hey, Mike.

>> Dave, it's Michael Blue.

Gearheart.

>> Oh.

>> Hi, Michael.

Mike, Mike's a long time, very loyal listener.

Very nice guy.

>> Okay.

Two questions and a comment.

question number one for Dave is I want to hear the craziest backstage story from the War Memorial concert era of the 70s.

And 80s that you had.

Question number two is why don't we get major shows anymore?

And I've heard it's because of the parking and because of, the size and everything at the war memorial.

But Billy Strings just played there last Tuesday night and sold the place out.

>> Sold the place out.

was it was curtained off as well.

>> Yeah.

I can that's the first time I remember a sellout since Phish back in the 90s.

And three oven.

Don't let him blow that smoke about connecting with overnight listeners.

I called him once in the 80s at CMF when he was overnight, and I said, hey, Dave, will you play this this song from this, this band, Iron Maiden?

It's a really great song.

And Dave's like, nobody wants to.

>> Hear that.

I'm.

Calling.

>> I'm calling.

I'm calling BS, Mike because I never worked overnights at CMF.

So your beef is with the late great Uncle Rod, so.

>> There.

No, that was oh.

>> Man.

>> Uncle Rod.

>> As regards your first question, on the advice of counsel, I can't answer that.

>> Oh, no, no, no.

>> Senator, you don't get to dodge that question.

>> Come on.

>> Actually, it was nothing.

There was no debauchery.

You know.

>> That didn't happen at the war memorial.

>> That I know that I witnessed.

Okay.

Did I smoke some weed with some performers?

Yes.

And had a good meal?

Yes, that was about it.

>> Okay.

>> That was it.

You know, it wasn't a hotbed of, you know the rock and roll lifestyle again, at least to the eyes, you know, that that we were able to play and it was pretty, you know, businesslike.

The band was there to play, and there were the schedules posted.

There weren't groupies all running around.

Certainly outside, but not backstage.

It wasn't.

It wasn't very Hollywood ish.

>> Okay.

>> All right.

So yeah.

So I smoke weed with a couple of bands and had some beers with them and stuff, and that's all I recall.

And that's my story, and I'm sticking.

>> To it.

>> What was question two for you, Mike?

>> why why concerts don't.

>> Come here.

Oh, concerts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

>> That that's all simple economics.

And it goes back a bunch of years.

And it has to do with us being a medium market with an 11,000 seat arena for general admission and Buffalo an hour away with an 18,000 seat arena.

And as the cost of putting on a show went up and promoters had to, you know, take more and more of the financial responsibility, they look for ways to maximize their investments in who they're booking and where they're booking them.

And Rochester is just too small, you know, for a lot of bands like I remember I wrote, we were very tight with Rush's management and they hadn't come here in a long time.

And I wrote, you know, we don't care if they they don't bring the just bring the band and put them up on stage.

But no, they, you know, the stage just can't handle it.

I'm surprised that they handle TSO, which is a fantastic show, but it's just it's economics and it's where they can put the most fannies in the seats.

>> Yeah.

>> And marine, when I'm thinking of different sizes, I mean, you're someone who's a great performer yourself and you appreciate live music.

I think I'm speaking out of school here.

And maybe Megan can fact check me on the fly here.

As much as we've seen, we've seen a decline in a lot of things.

I think live music is doing pretty well.

And and I'm talking multiple venue size all the way down to the abilene's of the world, all the way up to, you know, the Blue Cross arenas.

But, I mean, if we start to lose live music, I don't know, Maureen.

Then I think we should fold the tent on.

>> Society that's never going away.

>> Okay.

I hope.

>> Dave's right.

>> I did want to say Maureen's performance.

Maureen, your band, that Tug Hill band.

So fabulous.

Yeah.

Friday at Abilene.

Oh, my God, they were so good.

And so buoyant and uplifting, you know, playing all kinds of great, great music.

And everybody loved it.

You know, people, they were all people of a certain age, but they were of that age that appreciates that.

And she was.

And she's up there on that snazzy ukulele, I want to say, never seen one so snazzy like that.

>> Yeah.

>> That was no Tiny Tim ukulele.

>> No, no.

>> Live music is never going to go away.

>> Performance of music.

>> I hope so.

What do you think, Maureen?

>> I gosh, I hope not.

I, I don't know what I would do.

It's my last, my last contribution.

I think that I'm going to make, is live music.

So yeah, I'm retiring from radio, but still in music.

Deep.

>> So yeah.

>> Yeah, you know, but you know.

>> There's always going.

>> To my music.

>> Reflects my show.

>> Usually.

>> What similar songs and, you know, I like to sing about my heart, I guess.

Or, you know what's going on sometimes or, you know, whatever.

So.

>> Yeah.

>> I think it's, you know, people need to express themselves.

So.

>> Yeah, there's always going to be a performer who has a song to sing and people who want to hear him sing it, whether it's in a village or whether it's in a concert hall you know, because music is is that international language.

It can convey any number of emotions or messages.

You know, it's a it's a way of communication.

You know, a lot of times we just look at it as just a means of enjoyment and art and culture, but it's a very important and and centuries old method of communication.

>> Well, on Friday, on this program, at 1:00, we're going to have some song clips and we're going to share and we're going to challenge the audience here because for the first time, this is I don't this is not something that excites me.

I don't have Maureen and Dave feel, but for the first time in the last six weeks some entirely A.I.

songs have charted.

Now they've charted on alt country and on Christian Billboard lists.

Christian, there's like five of them.

Christian Billboard lists are loving the all A.I.

stuff.

but they're not number one in the country.

They're not.

But at the same time, they're starting to chart.

And so when Dave, you talk about live music, we'll always hear Maureen talks about writing from the heart.

And then I hear these A.I.

songs, and now they're starting to chart.

Now it's like, I feel like the dam is breaking.

And I am very nervous about that.

>> Dave.

>> you know, A.I.

is is a scary thing, you know?

You don't know what the truth is anymore, whether it's photography or artwork or music.

What I would like to think is that you mentioned you know, one particular genre of music, and I think for most genres, there's a particular, formula, you know, for a hit song.

Sure.

And just, you know.

>> There's a reason.

>> Why 3 or 4 chords.

>> Are very popular.

>> No minor chords.

They, you know, because they're sad and melancholy.

Minor chords.

But that's why we didn't play The Police at first.

They had minor chords and the consultants say, yeah, minor chords, no good, no good, no minor chords.

Yeah, it's.

Yeah.

So.

No.

It's true.

>> But back to A.I.

>> Yeah.

>> I believe that you can feed that formula into the computer and say, we want this kind of hook, this kind of tempo, this kind.

>> Of harmony.

>> But depending on the subject, where's the emotion?

Where's the message?

Where is, you know, the the gut feeling you'll get from listening to it?

And again, it's a distinction a lot of people probably won't think about and won't make, you know, a good song is a good song.

They like a good song.

I wonder if that's real musicians, people who are very into music might question that, but the majority of people are casual.

You know?

>> Absolutely.

>> Listening to music, they know what they like.

I like that it's made by a computer, I don't care, I.

>> Like it.

Right.

>> Exactly.

And so, Maureen, the formula that Dave talks about is real.

They know what the formula is that people that turns people on and if they are casual, if they're not going to be very discerning, I think we're going to see more of this.

And as a musician yourself, Maureen, are you concerned about.

>> That?

>> I don't know, I mean, I don't even know what the formula is.

You know?

>> I mean.

>> So I guess it has me beat already, but I do think that it's not always right either.

You know there was a long piece on 60 minutes last night about A.I.

and how it started to you know, deviate certainly from the truth.

and most people I know that work around it a lot.

they say it's not reliable, so I kind of still have faith in us that we will somehow get around it.

>> Yeah.

>> Or overcome the whatever the bad part of it.

>> I hope.

>> So, yeah, I it's here to stay.

It's here to stay.

>> I think in terms of cultural expressions, whether it's music or art or the written word that most folks with, with half a brain would still be able to, you know, make the distinction of what is real and what is not.

>> I hope so, Dave.

>> Certainly I know I see pictures on social media.

I go right away.

I see that is so fake, you know?

But, you know, again, to a trained eye, I'm not saying I have the most trained eye, but I, you know, I can recognize something.

>> I don't think we're as good at this as we need to be.

And I think it's only going to get more sophisticated.

So on Friday at 1:00 on this program, listeners come back there and join us and see.

We're going to see if you can pass the is it A.I.

test.

And then we're going to tell you which songs are charting.

And you can tell us if you think those songs are worth a or if we are doomed.

>> I know.

>> I think we're doomed.

>> Yeah, it could very well be.

But that's been said about a lot of things.

>> You know.

>> the dynamic of, of music, you know, you can you can go back in your, in your memories and in terms of a formula.

Okay.

So they were if one band had a song and it became a huge hit, all the other record companies say, all right, we got to get a band that's like that follows that formula.

You got this opening, great guitar lick and then you got great lyrics and a sing along chorus and a screaming guitar solo, and it's got to be produced by this guy.

Now look at you know, everything was a copycat in the 1980s.

Everything became keyboard based and the wild hair and the 90s grunge, everybody started wearing, you know, flannels and had that sound.

And record companies, of course, looking to make money, scrambled to sign any band that looked or sounded remotely like it.

And there were a bunch of crap bands, but there were a bunch of really good bands as well.

But it's like the, you know, they just throw it up against the wall and see what sticks.

But you know, when guns N roses and the hair bands that everybody's wearing bandanas and torn jeans and, and everybody had the look and the sound because you also had to have a video to go with it.

There was also that visual aspect of it.

And, you know, still but but people who stick to the basic forms of, you know, the basic three chords of rock and roll or blues or the improvizational, you know, talents in jazz then it's it's all good.

And it's it's a lot easier to, to pick that out from the formula.

>> Yeah, stuff.

>> And A.I.

stuff is very formulaic.

By the way, what was the worst song or the worst band that you had to play consistently?

And every time you had to play it, you were like.

>> Oh.

>> How long.

>> You got.?

>> There were plenty that we had to play.

And, you know, there were what were called turntable hits.

Didn't sell a hardly a single record, but it researched well, you know, that.

>> Means that.

I didn't know that.

>> Oh, yeah, a lot of turntable hits.

Donnie Iris, al Lee.

That's a turntable hit.

Didn't sell a lick.

And from Pittsburgh, I was going to say Cleveland.

What was it?

No.

Pittsburgh.

I think in any event.

and then there, of course, there were automatics.

You know, your big bands would drop even if they had crappy records.

You know, we'd play them until we said, oh, that's pretty crappy.

Let's find.

>> Another song.

>> But it was new, you know so yeah, it's.

There's so many but there I remember a lot of good ones, too.

And there's always going to be wacky songs and novelty songs and songs that just stink.

But usually the ones that stink eventually go away.

But there's not one that's really egregious in my mind.

>> I mean, I.

>> Don't know, I think some of the Nickelback stuff over the years.

>> But you know, but they know what they're doing and.

>> And they're probably really nice guys, by the way.

And it's very rude of me to say that because a lot of people like him.

And that's fine if you like him.

we are late for our only break, and then I've got a pile of your feedback to read on the other side.

I don't think producer Megan Mack it would be wise, even though we're on YouTube.

I don't think it would be wise for me to unearth that trove of my 90s hair when I was hosting those radio shows that probably, let's never.

>> Do that.

Oh.

>> Let's never do that.

Never do that.

>> There are pictures of me on social media, and they actually used one in the a little tribute card that they gave to me, my hair, full head of hair.

>> Oh.

>> Full fro that.

>> So sexy.

>> You measured it in circumference.

>> Not length.

>> Okay, I kind of picking my.

>> You were a lot.

>> Taller back.

>> In the day with all that.

Yeah, with.

>> All that hair.

And you mentioned 90s flannel.

I've got pictures of me wearing a shirt and then another shirt over that, and then a flannel over that, and I'm going like, I think it was like a summer, 88 degree day.

>> Like, what.

>> Was I doing there?

different times.

We're talking to Dave Kane and Maureen Rich, who recently retired from their work here.

Have you heard them on public radio?

But you've probably heard them in a lot of places.

You heard Maureen playing around town still, which is great.

but we're talking about the changing way that we consume music and the way that communities have been impacted by those retirements and the changes.

And we're going to come back to your feedback on the other side of this break.

I'm Evan Dawson Tuesday on the next Connections, we've got several conversations planned this week with an eye on energy conservation and climate.

And on Tuesday we talked to the team from the Seneca Park Zoo Society about their annual Conservation Warrior Award, designed to honor individuals who are committed to conservation that has lasting effects on all of us.

And we'll talk about that Tuesday.

>> Parts of Florida are still recovering three years after Hurricane Ian swept across the state, rising home insurance costs are making it more expensive to live in harm's way.

>> Little by little, you can see everybody going away.

Anybody that don't have that money, people are going to have to move.

>> I'm Ailsa Chang.

The challenges facing Florida homeowners and renters on All Things Considered, from NPR news.

>> Welcome back to Connections.

You know, when we talk about we we kind of joke about the stuff that you got to play that you don't love, but Maureen and Dave have introduced people to music that they would never have heard of without the the work that they did.

And that's the stuff that I love.

I mean, I don't know if you can you're never going to be able to quantify it, but certainly you introduce stuff to people that they did not know about.

And that's pretty cool.

>> In in a controlled sort of way.

did we introduce new artists only, you know, again, the thing to remember is that whether we like the songs or not, we weren't playing them for us, you know?

So you don't want to convey.

God, I really hate this song.

Hey, why don't you kids turn it up?

you know, it was for the listeners, the average radio listener didn't listen for more than 15, 20 minutes at a time.

Again, with which huge, with huge exceptions like having an overnight workforce or a daytime workforce that would listen for the whole shift and.

>> or a.

>> Friday or Saturday night event, a party where you they would pick a radio station.

And that was the backdrop of the evening.

>> Right?

>> That's an amazing thing for people to think about now.

>> Yeah.

Pretty much.

That was again, with with so little choices to have yeah.

It was like turn on that station or this station.

Yeah.

But the reason why, you know, when I, when I came back to do breakfast with the Beatles and subsequently started filling in on the route, I was in such heaven because here was a live and local radio station that trusted the personalities.

Their knowledgeable personalities.

Enough.

Say, play what you want, you know, have some, you know, have some basis for it.

Or, you know, make sure you frame it right.

But so I was I hadn't done that since college.

I hadn't done that since I was 21 years old.

And what I love so much about the freedom was a finally being able to satiate those listeners who say, why can't you guys play other music and this and that?

Because there's a lot of music heads here.

And finally got to do a show for people who really enjoy music, and as such will support a public radio outlet.

But it allowed me to replicate not duplicate, but to replicate the kind of radio I grew up listening to in in New York City, where it and most and any city, you know, during the the 60s and 70s a good song was a good song and again, with very limited choices to listen to music.

Back then, it was no shock to hear Tom Jones next to the Rolling Stones, next to the doors, next to the Jackson five or the Supremes.

Any novelty records?

It was all great, and it was all framed by fantastic local personalities.

And it just it was fun and it was exciting.

And, you know, I didn't say, I'm going to go into radio.

I always wanted to be in radio.

But I realized after I got in that the way I used to consume radio in in my early days in my youth, really kind of positioned me to discover it and say, oh, why didn't I think of this before?

Because I started as a journalism major and jumped into broadcasting.

And, you know, the bell went off and and that was it.

but, you know, back then, listening to the radio was such a joyful experience.

And that's what I was able to replicate.

And the people would pick up the excitement in my voice just being able to do that and present it to my friends, you know, my friends who have 40 plus years that I've had, you know, while being on the air in Rochester.

It was just so awesome to be able to do that.

Here's another side of me that's not Zeppelin.

Not that I would never knock the classic rock.

Not at all.

But, you know, I had enough.

And I know a lot of people in our wheelhouse have had enough as well.

So here's a great alternative.

>> Maureen, what about this idea that you have a chance to be the gateway for a listener to something new and exciting?

>> Yes.

I feel like, you know, we we discover I discovered new music all the time.

you know, people say, oh, there's just no good music anymore.

And, you know, I always take them up on that and say, no, you're just not listening because there is great music.

>> Out there.

>> So, you know, for me, discovery is a big part of my journey in radio.

and it had to be or else I wasn't too interested in doing it.

Just putting in the time, putting shows together.

it had to be something, you know, that I would share that really excited me.

So right up until the end here, you know, still excited about finding new artists.

new music and sharing that or, you know, sometimes if there was a subject, social subjects going on, you know, I couldn't really talk about those things on air, but I would play music that sort of told my story about it.

and I think that other people could relate and felt the same way.

And I, I feel like those are the kind of things that I focused on.

And because because I've been in public media and not in a commercial setting, I never had to worry about all those other things.

So for me, it's just been such an incredible, pleasure.

And, you know, joy, that's why the road to joy.

For me, music has always been a really important part of the soundtrack for me.

I think in lyrics and I think in songs and, you know, time posts and all that.

throughout my life.

so I, you know, I feel like music is still good.

It's still great.

And what we do, I mean, think about our Friday night lineup with the blues and the soul.

music of of Scott Wallace and Doug Curry.

You know that.

You won't hear that anywhere.

>> Right?

>> around.

so I think you know what?

We've what we're doing, and I can't speak to commercial because I never did that.

is is something unique, and you know, you can't you can't replicate that with, with a computer.

>> Yeah.

And I agree with Maureen, in terms of there is still fantastic music being made by all kinds of talented musicians and singers and performers and writers, and the benefit of the technology is that there are more ways than ever for people to discover these and follow.

Oh, I heard this great band.

Oh, and you can go right home and search it and then find some videos or something.

I mean, I've found a handful of bands that I just absolutely love over the last couple of years.

And, you know, there's it's a it's a two way street.

As much as I am so pleased and, you know, and encouraged when I see young people, very young people embracing the Beatles, you know, music of their grandparents generation.

And by the same token, there are newer bands that appeal to youth that I have found incredibly intriguing and entertaining.

And it's it's much easier to discover these bands if you are what's called musically active.

If you go to shows you read about shows, you talk to people about music, that's how you find out.

>> All right, let me get some more feedback in.

Chris says that it wasn't Amazon, but we should be blaming Columbia House.

>> So Columbia.

>> House, I recently saw somebody shared the meme that said there's like 100,000 Americans who still owe a lot of money to.

Columbia House, which I think has since folded.

If you don't know the story of Columbia House, here's how I found out about it.

I had a brother who was eight years older.

When I was nine years old.

He had this huge stack of, I think it was cassette tapes at the time.

>> Cassettes or eight tracks.

>> Yeah.

And and it was becoming CDs, like right around 1990.

But he had this huge stack in his bedroom and I'm like, where did you get those?

And he's like, it was like a dollar.

Or it was something like $0.50 for your first, like like seven or 8 or 10.

And I'm like even at the age of nine, I was like, well, what do you then have to pay?

And he's like, I don't think anything.

And I was like, well, you're definitely going to jail.

So but he had a band called the Indigo Girls there, and I was like, what's this?

He goes, I don't know.

They sent it as part of the the lineup.

And that's how I heard about the Indigo Girls, one of my favorite bands.

because we basically stole them from Columbia House, which was a.

>> But you found out about.

>> It, but found out it should have been the local radios, but it turns out so anyway.

Chris.

Yes, Columbia House, which I think all of us are still in debt.

>> To.

>> that's a great that's a great reference.

David writes to say I still call and request to my favorite radio show on Saturdays.

I call in to Wvbr in Ithaca to make requests on their long running Rock and remnant show.

I also occasionally request something ahead of time from my friend Steven Webb, who hosts the syndicated stuck in the Psychedelic E.R.A.

and living in the Days of Confusion out of WEOS.

In fact, he says, I'm not planning to stop.

No need for this newfangled stuff.

>> Now, you know the request lines and being able to, you know talk with the listeners was a was a huge link in that relationship.

And that's pretty much gone as well.

And with the loss of of, of live and local.

No, there's no local contests anymore.

They're all nationwide contests.

And you've got nary a chance to win.

>> MJ says music is alive and well and was at Billy Strings this week with the wide generational audience.

My first time seeing him.

And I've not been to a live show like that in years.

People are hungering for more real performers and music, such as his and not the overproduced pop of the last couple of decades.

In my humble opinion, that's from MJ's music.

Over produced these days.

Dave.

>> it depends on what you're listening to and who you're talking to.

It's all subjective.

I mean, if you're going to, you know, take a critical view of it.

Well, you know, there's too much of this in the mix is wrong, and they don't have enough high end, you know, but if it's a song that you like, then you like it.

You're not really thinking about it.

Overproduced, you know, when something is overproduced, when there's an orchestra and a choral and, you know simple is good, basic is good.

But if the things that musicians add the touches, the little flairs, the accents, the nuance that they add you know, that's that that's what cuts it sets it apart.

>> Well, I can still hear the mandolin in my head.

when Nickel Creek played a mutual Admiration Society album with Glen Phillips of Toad the Wet Sprocket, and they.

And they d produced it.

They simplified it, and they took a lot of Nickel Creek and a lot of Glen's work.

And they just made it simpler and really just beautiful and lilting.

and that's the opposite of what of of what some of our listeners are saying is overproduced.

So, Maureen, are we overproducing music these days?

>> Well, I don't know about now.

I think that is is somewhat of a dated sound.

Sometimes you can hear that, you know, in some of the old records, you hear the, you know, the orchestra in the back where, you know, today that probably wouldn't be there.

>> Yeah.

Phil Spector's Wall of Sound comes to mind.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes.

I mean, but I think they're talking about pop music.

>>, like.

>> You know, with, with the young, singers who, you know, they're just as much dancers as, as singers, you know and that's, I think that's maybe what they're thinking about when they talk about overproduction.

That does take away from the music, but it's more of a visual thing.

>> Yeah.

And sometimes it's a way of distracting you from the lack of talent of the band.

Now, I want to say about the Billy, about the Billy Strings show.

so five very talented musicians.

And I was the third song ago.

Wait a minute.

There are no electric instruments being played.

There was all amplified.

You had two acoustic guitars, you had an upright bass, a mandolin player and a and a violin player.

A banjo player.

And I said, and that's, you know, that kind of unplugged.

Well, if it were unplugged, I would have loved to have seen him in a very small hall without any amplification.

But the beauty of those acoustic instruments, whether it's bluegrass or anything you know, can't can't be matched and, and you don't want to overproduce that.

You lose the warmth and the beauty of the sounds that are coming out of those instruments.

>> James on YouTube says, can you ask when the Friday song tradition started?

>> When I got to CMF in 1981, the guy who had previously done it just said, all right, you know, we can hear see you by.

And he would play the song and that was it.

And then I don't even remember when we started sending it out to people, but it became a real thing to get mentioned on the Friday song, and I'd have the produced ending, you know?

And that's all, folks, and Dave's not here became a thing.

But yeah, since 1981, I had it was it was the song that I've now become very associated with, which is incredibly flattering.

hey, the playing those songs.

>> I love that.

>> I wish I got the.

>> Royalties.

That song.

>> Yes they do, yes they do.

>> I love it.

Oh.

>> My gosh.

You've made quite the mark, Dave King.

>> Thank you so much.

>> And before we wrap here, Tom sent a note in saying, can you briefly tell people who didn't know the Uncle Raj story?

Just Uncle Raj a little bit on Uncle Raj.

>> Uncle Raj was the beacon of local music.

He was a musician himself.

He was an incredibly kind and generous and personable man.

And he hosted midnight to six on Wcmf for a number of years.

Matter of fact, uncle Pat just downright refused to work when the sun was out.

He would only work at night.

The earliest he ever started was at 10 p.m.

and he was he became the friend of the overnight working audience.

And again, he he championed local music with a show called homegrown that launched a lot of local bands and gave them a, a forum.

and it's still being, you know, there's still local music shows locally, which is great.

and uncle tragically murdered in a robbery some 24 years ago.

and you know, what I tell people is, is, you know, it said as sad as it is that, you know, UNC died that way, eventually his job would have been taken away.

So.

But that's besides the point.

He was just a giant in in Rochester radio.

Beloved and still very fondly remembered and and missed.

>> Well, speaking of fondly remembered and missed Kano.

Maureen, you guys did such great work.

and I want to just not only salute you in retirement, but just to tell you that there's not anybody like you.

And I don't know that the world's this is.

I don't know that this is a great form of progress.

I think that the ties to local community and the service that you both did is not really replaceable.

So I just want to thank you.

And, Maureen, where are you playing around town next?

>> Sedona, Arizona.

>> That's right.

I, I will be back.

>> In the.

>> Spring.

smart girl.

>> Up to.

Yeah, yeah, that's where I'm headed right now.

And we'll be we'll be back in the spring all around town.

>> I.

>> you know, we'll be back at Abilene, back at the little.

So we'll for Tug Hill.

>> Band.

>> Tug Hill band.

great.

>> Great band.

>> Just a great time.

This our Maureen.

Good travels.

We'll see you in the spring.

And thank you for what you what you've done with road to Joy.

>> Thank you.

Evan.

>> That's Maureen.

>> Rich and.

>> Kano.

Bye, Mo.

>> Hey.

Love you brother.

>> Hey, I love you back.

>> Love what you've done for this community.

And, you know, keep lending your voice here when we call you.

>> Well, you know I, I'm retired, but, you know, I'm still always open to coming and helping out.

>> And you've got great stories and great insight.

We appreciate you.

>> Thanks, Evan.

>> That's the great Dave Cane.

Thanks for all of us at Connections for joining us on our various platforms.

And we're back with you tomorrow on member supported public media.

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