♪ > > This week on the community.

We asked word what exactly is socialism and > > what is to And > > for Connecticut Public.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse.

It's a show that connects politics of the people.

Weve got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here.

This hour.

We're going to talk about socialism.

Today.

More and more politicians and dubbed themselves Democratic socialist politicians like United States Senator Bernie Sanders.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and the Democratic candidate for mayor of New York City sore on down.

What exactly is a Democratic socialist?

Is it different from a traditional socialist?

Joining me now, Christopher Viles, a professor of English and American studies at the University of Connecticut.

Kristopher, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me on.

Great to have you on a let's begin this conversation by breaking down what socialism is and what it isn't.

Also invite folks to give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, If you want to speak with us this morning, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, I mention sore on Dani earlier he's a candidate for New York City mayor and he's a big reason why we're talking about this today identifying as a Democratic socialist.

President Trump has taken aim at politics and his politics and called him another name.

> > And we have a clip that word I prefer not to have a comment is mayor of New York City.

And you know, that's what he is based in this policy.

If you look at his statements in the I would like to see 2 people drop and have it be one-on-one.

And I think it's a race that could be one.

> > So there we hear President Trump sort of conflating socialism, maybe with communism his democratic socialism.

The same thing as communism.

> > No, not at all.

And first of all of it, you know, in to your earlier question, like what is socialism, socialism?

Keep in mind, it's something that's been around really sense.

The first new socialist movements were in France in the 18 30's.

So you're talking about of a word and a movement that's been in virtually all countries of the world.

You know, one point or another for the last 200 years on the straight.

So it's got a there's not one single meeting wanted.

One thing is clear, is communism is pretty specifically end of an authoritarian form of socialism.

And it tends to kind of it.

The only places that it's really taken power successfully.

The only cause successful communist revolutions are in places without long traditions of liberal democracy.

Right?

As democratic socialism.

That's more of a tradition that comes out of Western Europe for the most part in the late 18th century to the president, you know, extending through social democracy.

Where really is a tree trying to us achieve something like it's socialist or social is late economy through the ballot box rather than through kind of a violent seizure of power.

> > Is there a way that democratic socialism or at least away that a Democrat that calls himself a Democratic socialist would look itself differently than socialism.

> > I'm not really, you know, like with the biggest organization and United States right now for socialism is the Democratic Socialists of America DSA and beverages in Connecticut as well.

> > And so, yeah, I mean, like I think depending on who you ask in that movement, you probably get very different answers right?

But it the more I think what they're trying to do is really position themselves against authoritarian communism, buy that label.

I think they're aware that a lot of Americans associate socialism with authoritarianism.

So they're trying to basically say that, look, we actually are doing this to the ballot box to bigger means.

But I really do think that they coming out of a tradition dating to the late 19th century in, you know, in Europe and also the United States of > > seeing you know, trying to get socialist means to the ballot box.

> > A better way to ask that question.

Might be like what are the core tenets of a Democratic Socialist Society?

And you're saying obviously different from authoritarianism or at least trying to be so help us understand what it might look like.

> > Well, yeah, again, abate the GSA which is not the only socialist organization America.

They debate this internally and I don't think is 100% agreement.

But I think what what is very clear is that they're trying to kind of they would want a society with much less kind of inequality between rich and poor.

I'm somewhat stable that no one called inequality.

But certainly much with, you know, a green New deal more socially oriented economy.

You know, with kind of we let's kind of go worse of policing, less prisons also, you him and depending on who you ask, probably certain sectors of the economy actually owned by the state may be the oil companies, things like that.

Certain kind of selective nationalizations.

So again would be looking at a more kind of socially kind of oriented lest you know what, maybe not the market, the market in most versions of democratic socialism.

There's a space for the free market, especially small businesses, et cetera, but less controlled big, big business I think was was what they would kind of want to see.

You told me that the model for this might in the late 19th century.

Well, excuse me.

> > I'm thinking about different form of socialism, but just help me understand the Socialists.

> > you talked about the model in the past.

Where might we see Democratic socialism playing out today outside of the DSA here in America?

> > You mean like in the United States outside of America?

So like OK on Sunday night for houses, there were, yes, go ahead.

Is it in in some parts of Europe?

> > Well, keeping in mind, too, is that after World War 2, the kind of the center of gravity for socialism really kind of us goes outside of Europe into the global south.

The Latin America, Africa, Asia Center right?

And there is still to be clear, authoritarian versions of socialism or communism, Venezuela, you know, a big example you know, also China Vietnam, right?

So the authoritarian variants are still there right But there's this kind of dual tradition of, you know, a more Democratic version.

This being kind of pushed, you know, with his fate within spaces that tend to have more of a tradition of liberal democracy.

> > And where we find that baby, unlike some of the Nordic countries like in Scandinavia where we find yeah, absolutely has going for them as well.

> > Yeah.

I mean, it's it's a > > for example.

I mean, it's it's hard to parse out in certain ways because dependent like for like of yesterday at the Cato Institute, a libertarian is they're going to see all parties of of Western Europe and Northern Europe.

We do love that kind of I know it's in the weeds, but we do like that kind of nuance here on the going.

But > > basically, if you're going to actually look at those countries, there's kind of a mean streaming of what we would see the kind of social Democratic idea rate, a more kind of market oriented economy that really kind of becomes the 3rd rail of politics looks like here where there are certain things like Social Security that began as a socialist idea that really is you know, a kind of a 3rd rail that all parties embrace.

I think there's certain kind of basic socialist features of the economy.

All parties in Western Europe and northern Europe embrace especially northern Europe right?

You know, you know what I lived in Germany for for a time to where you have, you know, still a significant part of the state is under, you know, you know, government off auspices, so much so that the universities becoming like basically consistent job, which is an administrative science.

It's as popular as a major, as you know, Business administration, right?

Because there's so many people going into the state sector.

Extra points for that.

That a perfect pronunciation of that chairman word.

Let's take you to some of the modern day.

> > Politicians in the United States.

We have United States Senator Bernie Sanders.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

You mentioned the Green New Deal.

She's essentially and architect of that and Democratic candidate for mayor of New York City Zohran Mamdani.

They joined forces back in September for a fighting oligarch.

The rally fundamentally, what are some of like the through lines that connect these folks together and what are against?

> > Okay, we know I think what they are against for certain is kind of laissez faire economy, Going to be you know, that is that is absolutely what we said that Apple Neoliberalism, right, which is a kind of a free market on steroids.

I think again and the tradition of democratic socialism, most mostly these folks are going to practical politicians right?

And so they're pushing for things in the immediate short term that they think are kind of doable like the Green New Deal like, you know, you know, different a different tax structure, you know, a kind liberalism.

Plus, right is a cow.

And if you and I saw there was a recent interview with on dining on I by The New Yorker and he was asked, what do you see is socialism and his answer was interesting, which was that, you know, socialism is that no one is priced out of housing or food or the basic necessities rate, which is a very general answer.

It's also a very you know, we we are dealing with people for practical politicians who are kind of winning elections and pushing for things that they can see him possibly achieve in the next 48 years, which is very different than, you know, somebody on the ground.

He's kind of pushing for, you know, much.

But for kind of like socialist movement so that they are kind of on the.

The most mild is end of the global social spectrum.

I would say in terms of what they're pushing and what they're trying to achieve, just like a less inequality rather than you know, I don't hear them talking about kind of massive nationalizations of industries or anything like that.

> > It's interesting that they're embracing socialism only because it can be seen as a taboo word in America and particularly after week have to keep this is the and I imagine this a big issue that they have with socialism, any kind of democratic socialist is anytime you try to divorce yourself from the authoritarian variant of socialism.

It's almost impossible to do, right.

I was asking you about socialism earlier and we're talking about how Latin America, particularly South America in Venezuela, they're still unable to shed sort of that did that.

other form of socialism.

So this is something that I would imagine Democratic socialist have to fight through all the time.

So can you point us to where it may be where socialism was most taboo in our society and and sort of when it became to start a go.

The other way people started to identify with it more.

> > Yeah.

Yeah.

So Rich, does look at the president, for example, is recent polling by evil.

The Cato Institute, even and YouGov and also Gallup that's actually shown, you know, around, you know, 40% of Americans have a more favorable view of socialism to capitalism.

55% prefer capitalism so that if there's a general election, capitalism would still win.

But what's striking is that it's that high 40% and to the Cato Institute's alarm, about 60% of young people.

People under 30.

We have a favorable view of socialism.

60% right?

And that's been trending for a while.

And I've certainly working with young people and certainly seen that since I started teaching a much bigger acceptance of the word but it's funny if you go back, you know, in time to like, you know, 1942, there is a Fortune magazine poll, right?

And you know, pulling methodology clearly different then.

But in 1942, they found to their alarm and Fortune magazine that about 25% of Americans preferred socialism over capitalism.

Another 35% had an open mind to it right?

So I think what we're kind of seeing now, it is less of a kind of a total anomaly in American history and more are returning back PRE World War.

2 normal, almost right.

I think the point American history where socialism was the biggest taboo was really during the Cold War right after World War 2 after the kind of the competition with the Soviet Union I think with the baby Boomer generation to that word was the biggest and now an app them for the most part are least most of them right?

So but I think where, you know, to their grandpa to their parents, you know, it was mixed right?

The baby boomers parents.

So I think we're kind of returning back you know, a 20th century norm in certain ways about where the needle is pointing.

And I think for also we're talking about the increasing popularity to.

That's also the keep in mind.

I think that's the embers of Trump is right where it's like on the right.

We're seeing the right breaking taboos and arms all the time.

Right.

And this is the kind of a you know, it was a basically or less kind of publicize thing that's happening on the left.

Think you're what you're seeing in this country is after you flat or declining standard of living for it over a generation.

Now at this point, you know, people on the left and right are looking for much more kind of, you know, dramatic sounding alternatives to the status quo.

Right?

And that they're obviously going in very different directions with that.

Something that you said earlier about sore on dine-in kind of how he's defining socialism was evocative to be of.

> > Some of the students that I teach at the University of Connecticut and obviously you teach their to eye only teach a little section for the injured students there to journalism.

But they talk to me a lot about housing.

So when you're talking about soaring mom, Donna explaining socialism, what it means to him being that nobody ever gets priced out you know, eating and having a meal and housing.

It kind of reminds me of that.

So help me understand what draws people to socialism, young people to socialism?

Are there any of these kind of conversations you're having with students at UConn where they're at least when you think about class or something like that.

Is there any particular questions they might have if you're talking to them or any other way, you could kind of connect young people to socialism.

> > Yeah, I mean, here you go.

You think you said You know 2 and I think you might have you might have encounter this as well.

But Amy I've seen a lot since I started teaching date myself in the 90's.

And then, you know, this is a great states, too.

I've certainly seen a shift to the left and most younger people, you know, and around the word socialism that said, I haven't seen a fully developed sense of what socialism means rate.

And that's that they know that's that's to be understood in only their young.

But their is no.

As I said, you know, universally agreed upon definition of what this term means.

It just means something.

You less kind of capitalistic.

And I think the draw to it to your question about housing and other things that just that seems to represent something.

> > More kind of h******* than what the Democratic Party establishment is offering right.

> > And something that is actually really aimed at changing in a powerful way.

The standard of living ends contemporary economic problems that people on the lower end of the spectrum and young people kind of are facing.

I think in a general sense that seems to be the sense I'm getting and also the popularity.

And I am convinced also that the popularity of socialism, particularly amongst the young, has a lot to do.

Also with people like Trump or Ted Cruz going on about how it's the biggest evil in the world, right.

So somebody who you see is a if you are Joe Grandma stirs talking about this thing is if it's the biggest evil in the world are going to go.

What is Maybe there's something to that, right?

You know, so I mean, I think the draws are many right.

Some of these definitions of gotten slippery and other moments in United States history.

For example.

> > I'm looking at President Roosevelt here who held the presidency during the Great Depression, calling was called a a Communist and socialist by critics.

I recently saw an article where they said that President Donald Trump, I think was an opinion piece.

They said might have been in the Atlantic or an NBC news.

But was it a popular publication where they try to compare Trump's presidency as being the biggest socialist presidency since FDR.

So are there any overlaps maybe in terms of economic circumstances or political circumstances between today and when Roosevelt was president back in the 30's.

> > Yeah.

I mean, keep in mind the standard of living, you know, when Roosevelt was there and socialism was having a real moment in the 1930's we're talking about 25% unemployment and also without much of the developed social service state when he first took office.

So if you lose your job that literally started death.

And I right, so people were that the crisis was much more more dire.

But I think right now you've got kind of a more slow, generational kind of go out with a whimper, not a bang, kind of economy, right?

And that's just not delivering the goods for many, many.

And so, you know, I think, you know, back then also and there is that there is a parallel, too, was that, you know, most of the country, it in the United States at least was kind of adopting Markkanen more labor, pro-worker views.

That was a majority opinion.

But there was also a shift also on the other side of the radical right to people who are out also embracing literally fascism, right?

This is like the father, Coughlin movements and everything like that.

30's.

So that you you have a think aids of like I a laissez faire economy are increasing lately.

It leaves a fair economy that is not delivering the goods and people are looking for kind of radical solutions on left and right, right.

And I so I think that is a kind of a general parallel, although, you know, the depth of the crisis was far more kind of this rollback them.

> > From Connecticut Public Radio, this is the Wheelhouse.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

After the break, we get a temperature check out how Americans are feeling about socialism today.

Let us know how you define socialism.

Give us a call.

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♪ ♪ ♪ Good morning.

My name is Mike.

This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This hours all about the S word.

Talking about socialism.

We're exploring what socialism is and what it is.

It and why more Americans are warming up to the word.

So with me, Christopher Viles, the English and American studies, professor at the University of Connecticut.

Thank you for joining us, Chris.

And joining us now in studio.

How exciting is this?

Dan?

Our senior editor and columnist for CT Insider.

And thank you so much for joining us on the Wheelhouse.

They could be here.

Do you identify as a Democratic socialist?

Dan Harden kidding.

He wasn't on the camera when he did that.

I thought he was.

What does that mean to you?

Let us know.

Give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, If you identify as a socialist or you don't like socialism or you want to know more about it.

Give us call.

Hey, Chris, I'm I want to talk to a second.

I'm gonna bring Dan in here because E E heard some of your responses and he'd like to put his own little spin on it.

Go ahead.

Well, I would just go a little bit further and say that I my as you do as a columnist, my impression, first of all is that there are things that Trump is doing that could perfectly well be a called as much socialism has say Obamacare, which is called socialism and that would be tariffs.

Jeffs is art Harris to form of social.

If we're going if we're going to accuse things are being socialist is in better form of socialism.

> > What aspect Chris nguyen a tariff could potentially be socialism because I think we're going to the intel.

It's is one we can talk about, too.

But Chris, are so it with tariffs and what aspect are you looking at in that regard?

And then I want to see Chris kind of analyze that for so we're back to your your collecting money from a private enterprise and you're secure here.

The re distributing it to the to the society.

That's what that's what tariffs are your its attacks on private transactions that goes then to whatever broader purposes you want to use it for.

Can you see that parallel, Chris?

Yeah, yes and no.

I mean, this as the tariffs the norm in the early Republican United States up into the 19th century before World War, 2.

> > Right in the late industrialization was kind of, you know, in this country was, you know, behind a very big tariffs wall.

And most of those industrialist who favored it would certainly not identify as socialists.

Cato Institute would certainly tell you that.

Yes, tariffs are very socialist and I but I what I you know, agree with also is the notion that flight, I mean, I think what Trump's embrace of tariffs means is that in general, the idea unbridled free markets isn't trouble across the spectrum.

We're even people like Tucker Carlson and even Steve Bannon are railing against the staying Neil liberalism, right, which is again, kind of laissez faire, capitalism, right?

Cap was steroids.

And so that idea of unbridled free market capitalism is certainly in trouble across the board.

> > But just as it just as there's no such thing as pure form, socialism in practice.

There never has been and Smith of the free hand of Adam Smith.

Adam Smith didn't believe in or write about unbridled capitalism.

> > I agree, right?

Like the idea of the free market right free market is always been utopia right?

It's never been fully implement that, you know, even even as we retreated to neoliberalism, you know, dialing back a lot of the key to the new Deal state of the Cold War era.

Even still a lot of that stuff from the new deal was still in place.

Social Security, minimum wage laws.

You know, child labor laws, et cetera, drug development.

Drug development.

> > And we've got a clip that we're going to play for Crist here.

This is a clip of Donald Trump back in May of 2019 at a rally in Pennsylvania.

Pay attention to some of the words that he uses here.

Chris.

> > We want to take away your health care, your health insurance and wanted to get away Democrats and now the party of high taxes high crime, open borders, late term abortion.

Chilling.

Is that good Amendment?

I'm rod ago.

> > some of these ideas and practice or are somewhat Nguyen.

You talk about reproductive rights in this way and open borders.

And this concept.

But obviously we're trying to figure out these ties is making socialism in this instance is with things like no health insurance, high taxes, high crime, more.

Are these policies that he listed off historically linked to socialist government governance.

It maybe not in the way that he's saying, but it's a hard parallel to make.

But you get the idea that mean he saying that maybe some of these programs.

Yeah.

> > Yeah.

I mean, first of all, I would say like that, you know, I think a lot of people in the Denver Reddick Socials America would love it if the Democratic Party actually represented a specialism but open borders.

No high crime.

Obviously not.

I'm not sure and drugs and I'm not sure of anything or case thinking, wait, health care.

I think I think what he's please naming is the opposite of what kind of socialist are are after.

And I really wouldn't take that political stump speech that seriously in terms of a factual statement?

Sure.

I think we were trying to give a fair shake to something that was extremely > > intensive least in rhetoric.

And I saw the look on your face as I was asking that question was going to switch that up a little bit.

But nonetheless, I wanted to brew.

Let's let's keep the conversation going here, Dan, because it does sort of involved that sort of link to Trump and socialism, if you will.

Yeah, we'll house guest from the Atlantic.

David Graham has argued the case for Trump engaging in right-wing socialism and his efforts to get the U.S.

government and business like with Intel have been criticized for being socialist, particularly from people on the right.

You take 10% of of one company and 10% of another and 10% of a 3rd in pretty pretty soon.

You have a.

> > A power base I I think that the effects of the reaction to Trump are more important when looked at through a lens of his behavior and his authoritarianism that his policies, I think you could argue policy either way, but it's socialism is.

And I think Chris would agree socialism is always a reaction to monarchy.

Can't say you can't link Donald Trump to authoritarianism.

I don't know if you Well, at least in this context, we we have not always talking about potentially.

> > No, I'm I'm doing this sort of facetious it in the way that I'm presenting it because we had this conversation in a pre interview.

But Dan, the point is there's a lot of folks who tossed around terms like socialism and communism.

But what I'm trying to get at is they they may not like when the stones being thrown.

The other way and words like fascism and authoritarianism are thrown around, correct?

> > Hawaii, is it that it's In.

OK?

For one side to accuse the other of being socialist.

But it's not OK for the other side to accuse them that the for the second side to accuse the first side of being fascist right.

If I say Trump is a fascist that comes close to a line.

And I thought we obviously all know why it is because fashions associated with genocide and Hitler.

And we're not making an equation between Trump and Hitler were making it an equation between Trump and the takeover of the country.

And so it's it.

It's an interesting non parallel.

Very fascinating.

That conversation because it very quickly gets from talking as as Dan might have used in a in a different.

> > It weighs talked about for cystic tendencies instead of fascism because that seems like a a nicer way to say it.

But very quickly, it gets from talking about potential authoritarianism.

What it looks like fascism to all of a sudden people, people being concerned about the parallels to Trump and Hitler.

The vary quickly happens that way and that in that regard.

that's why the conversation kind of denigrates very.

But I wanted the ball.

Now.

I want to ask Chris Appeal, go further as I think I would.

> > And say, mom, Dani himself, as is as the likely next mayor of New York exists because of Trump.

That's that.

Is that so yeah, actual Crist's?

I think I think what you said earlier was that I don't know if Chris is going to make that connection, but at least Crist said earlier that > > you have a sort of the free market on steroids and that's kind of pushing people that sounds like even maybe even Steve Bannon and and Tucker Carlson to say that there has to be a new way and that's kind of how these things happen.

Is that where you're going with that, Chris, kind of dancing here that that you might get them on, Donny, when when people are unhappy with the way things are going.

> > Yeah, no.

think that's it's but I would say yes, you know, in part, but I also think there's a lot of there's been a lot of work done by sociologists and such about kind of trends among younger people.

You know, in this era, you know, sometimes the meal liberalism, right, where people younger people are delaying marriage, they're staying at home longer.

They're making kind of adult life choices like kind of life by force.

later in life because of student debt, all these things.

So I do think that this, you know, younger people are facing standard of living issues that are quite real.

That kind of go beyond just a reaction to Trump right?

It ends, you know, but that said, you know, from bay think is, you know, part of it.

Once you get some like I said earlier, once you get somebody out there, you know, saying things all the time about kind of communism is the greatest people write, you know, and then it becomes a problem.

> > Chris, I got to try to wrap this all up in a bow within the next 90 seconds.

So I'm gonna take a phone call.

And then I want you to respond to this person because I think they're gonna talk about some of the Democratic socialism we're seeing outside of the United States.

> > And can you make this quick?

Our caller, thank you so much for calling in from New Haven.

Is this Caroline Caroline, can you give us your a phone call quickly or as we're up against the break?

> > Yes, Carol, and community that I Carolyn, I just hi takes.

I just wanted to comment on how Democratic socialist policies or caring for other countries.

So I'm actually a geography professor and has just looking at this.

As you look at this United Nations, human Human Development Index, a basically a measurement of how developed each country is if you look at that from 1990, in the U.S.

2, you know, the most recent statistics the United States used to be the most developed country when the rain, according to its hdi and now, you know, Sweden, Norway, even Australia have surpassed it with higher Human Development Index.

In other words, there are more developed in the United States and that's because entirely their social Democratic policies that they incorporate, it doesn't mean the socialist countries.

They're entirely democratic countries, but things like education, housing, you know, welfare are paralyzed, Maddie's and health care.

> > Thank you so much for bringing this up.

And I'll highlight it this way.

Every time I look at a child care index or or something that kind of maybe even the Kuwait GDP and how people are able to afford childcare, something like that.

You always have sweet as a country that's above the United States because they provide childcare essentially for free.

> > So any response to what we just heard from Caroline there?

I really appreciate the call and hearing from an academic, of course, go ahead, Chris.

> > Yeah, I know.

And I can't speak to the specifics of, you know, the Swedish economy and how it fared.

And it's outside of my, you know, so my Wheelhouse.

But like the same yeah.

I mean, yeah.

A lot of standard of living indicators and Western Europe are much higher than in the United States, including longevity, just including help with how long people live.

Right?

You know, so and but I think if you want to look at kind of more socialistic economies, I think I I tend to as the somebody studies American history and American culture, take a look at our own kind of history here.

You know, when you look at kind of the trajectory of things or how things are going in this country in the 40's 50's 60's were, you know, you have a the real a wage is increasing at a 3% clip every year during that period, you know, and for working people you know, and that was a more kind of it wasn't a socialist economy.

In fact, the United States was fighting Putin vote communism during that time.

But by the standards of this country's own history, things were on the up and up during that the generation in ways that we haven't seen since them right now with more than it was in the social economy.

But it was more in that direction for sure.

This is the Wheelhouse.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

> > We just heard from Christopher Viles, professor of English and American studies at the University of Connecticut, Chris, thank you so much for having this conversation with us.

We really appreciate your perspective.

> > Thank you.

Thanks from beyond.

Yeah, no problem.

Dan's going to stick with me after the break.

We're gonna take a deeper dive into what a Democratic socialist mayor in New York City.

> > Would mean for Connecticut.

That's next.

You're listening to the Wheelhouse.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This hour.

We've been sifting through what's fact and what's fiction when it comes to socialism.

New York City's mayoral election is only weeks away and Democratic socialist candidate Zohran Mamdani will face off against former Governor Andrew Cuomo is running as an independent and Republican nominee Curtis Slee Waugh.

We know him from the the Guard dogs.

So what night this and what might this election mean for Connecticut's residents?

I can't leave.

The Kurtis Lee was still in politics.

That's why I say that.

Still with me, Dan Haar, senior editor and columnist for Hearst Connecticut Media.

Dan, you touched on this earlier.

Help me understand how a mom, Dani win for New York City governor would impact economic development in the state of Connecticut.

it started with an interview with Governor Lamont of about week or 10 days ago in which > > he said it would hurt Connecticut because it would hurt Wall Street.

The Wal J**** interview that somebody else, you know, that was Bloomberg.

That was Bloomberg.

And then you OK, so go ahead to number.

Did the interview in Greenwich at the at the Economic Forum in Greenwich?

Important because the economic forum is a bastion of antisocial is and that's where you have your your hedge funds and your private equity folks.

And so governor duly did say that he was worried yet he agreed with their question and said he was worried a little bit.

New York City is the front.

This is him talking.

New York City is the financial capital of the world and where a big piece of it here.

As evidence by the economic forum.

And I want to make sure that the next mayor understands how important New York City is to that system.

And that's important to Connecticut.

He said nothing else about Mond it directly and yet that was taken.

The governor of Connecticut saying Wall Street was going to crash because the way the question was asked, are you concerned about the ramifications?

And so that really went way too far.

And so that's what inspired her column in which you end up with kind of where he what he actually thinks And Dani.

> > And sort of how this is how we're looking at this from a Connecticut lens.

What he said to me was that it was less about him worrying about the markets crashing and more about him advising mamdani to pay attention to the very important finance industry in the way that elected officials call up and, you know, do little back slapping.

And how's it going and create an environment where they can succeed.

There's nothing about social Democratic socialism that necessarily says that's not going to happen.

And so it could help Connecticut as well as her Connecticut.

If people, Flynn, New York for Connecticut, remember between 6 15,000 people a year move from New York State to the state of Connecticut.

And I promise you they're not going from Buffalo to that points out up to torrington my hometown.

He recently stopped in touring to understand, yes, I did.

I wouldn't is come up more.

You're talking to people in a way that was in torrington at at Sullivan.

Honda buying a car yesterday of all capitalist things to do.

And I had a conversation with a fellow their name.

Tim, very interesting.

He and by the way, a great shout out to center Sullivan onto and Torrington.

Yeah.

And he and which had the car for free.

Dan, can I get to the point?

I got the car for free Tim came from Albania.

And so he's very concerned about this social.

It that he doesn't want to see something that looks like socialism.

It is and what might look like socialism to him.

What what things the Democratic socialists are doing or something like that might look like scary Social as we say in our promo spooky motivation.

Why?

He's a very smart and sophisticated guy.

So he knows what is and what isn't socialism.

But the point is even just the label socialism creates a shiver to someone who grew up behind the Iron Curtain and of course, that's what a lot of people in Latin America and South America are dealing with.

When it comes to U.S.

politics because they think about Cuba, maybe.

> > In the 1950's or something like that.

And that's something that may be the Republican Party has been able to take advantage of in terms of votes.

> > That's right.

But but but people who look very closely at it know that some of the things Trump is doing also replicate authoritarianism.

You have to keep in mind what is one thing is spreading the wealth.

And the other thing is taking over.

We only got 2 minutes left.

Here's how we're going to do this because I I'm going to go to you for the next few minutes.

But what's going to be tight?

> > And I'm gonna take it back from you.

At some point, actors I want to look at here.

I want to look at the right and then pro.

Do and how he might approach socialism and how we might address it.

And then I want to look at a potential challenge from the left here from somebody name Josh Elliott.

That tells me as he's challenging the governor that Republicans are going to label him a socialist.

So can you speak about how how both sides sort of opposite Lamont here as more of a centrist are kind of looking at the socialism debate here.

> > Yeah, I think that.

> > Ben Proto Wood, I haven't talked to them specifically about it.

He might label Josh Elliott a socialist.

I don't know.

I do want to put words in Benton out, but let's talk about the ideas that are out there tax.

The rich, Publix, super markets equitable education.

Rent freezes free buses.

Universal childcare, then produce as very free fares.

A free or it's far from free well.

A lot of conservatives, author on Free Bus fares make a lot of sense to a lot of conservatives as well for reasons that the different show.

But the point is that those ideas with the possible exception of rent freezes, which is radical are about generally main stream mainstream liberal Democrat, liberal Democrat, not Lamont Democrat, right.

And for example, David Michelle, he was a democratic socialist from Stanford.

He lost his election, but he was in the legislation's Democratic South.

Right?

So I think Josh Elliott with look at it and say this is just mainstream Democratic left-wing politics and that's really the debate.

The label matters as much as the policy we need you to pay attention to dance com.

You can see it at CT Insider Dot com because he is very nicely breaking this down from us.

> > Today show produced by Chloe win.

It was edited by Patrick Scale.

Our technical producer is dealing race special.

Thanks to test terrible in the rest of our staff here for helping us out today.

Download the Wheelhouse anytime on your favorite podcast app.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse.

Thank you for listening.

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