Laura: HYDROGEN HUB, WHERE IS THIS IDEA COMING FROM?

IT JUST SEEMED LIKE ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE WAS ALL THIS TALK  AROUND HYDROGEN, HYDROGEN, HUBS, LIKE, WHY?

Redfern: THAT IS A PRETTY GOOD QUESTION, BECAUSE I THINK  AGAIN THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT ANGLES THAT ARE  COMING TOGETHER IN DEALING WITH THIS.

I THINK, WELL, THE MAIN REASON IS IN JOE BIDEN'S FIRST OF HIS  BUILD BACK PLANS, HE OFFERED UP A BILLION, WITH A B,  DOLLARS TO BUILD UP TO FOUR OF THESE HYDROGEN HUBS AROUND THE  UNITED STATES.

AND, YOU KNOW, OUR LEGISLATORS  IN WASHINGTON AND THEN FOLKS BACK AT THE ROUND HOUSE IN  SANTA FE SAW THAT AND SAID, OH, HEY, WE CAN DO THAT.

WE SHOULD STEP UP AND DO THAT SORT OF THING.

THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS THAT HYDROGEN AS A FUEL ON THE  GLOBAL SCALE IS REALLY SEEN IN MANY QUARTERS AS A REPLACEMENT  FUEL FOR, SAY, REGULAR GASOLINE OR DIESEL FUEL IN  HEAVY MACHINERY AND MANUFACTURING PROCESSES WHERE  YOU CAN TURN THESE VERY, VERY DIRTY MANUFACTURING PROCESSES  INTO MUCH MORE GREEN THINGS.

AND THAT IS SEEN AS BEING VERY  IMPORTANT GLOBALLY.

SO, PEOPLE DO WANT TO GET THIS  HYDROGEN GOING.

THE BIG QUESTION IS HOW AND  WHERE AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT IS  THAT AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES, FOR SURE AT THIS  POINT, IT TAKES A FAIR BIT OF SUBSIDIES TO MAKE IT  PROFITABLE FOR BUSINESSES TO DO THIS.

SO, ALL OF THESE  THINGS SORT OF WORK TOGETHER TO POINT TO NEW MEXICO.

Laura: IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WHEN YOU BURN IT AS A FUEL IT  IS CLEAN BUT LIKE THE PRODUCTION OF MAKING THE  HYDROGEN IS MAYBE NOT SO CLEAN.

AM I GETTING THAT RIGHT?

Redfern: THE MAIN CONCERN  IS THE PIPELINE THAT GETS NATURAL GAS INTO A THING LIKE  A POWER PLANT OR TO A DISTRIBUTION CENTER BECAUSE OF  PROBLEMS NEW MEXICO HISTORICALLY AND CONTINUES TO  HAVE WITH LEAKS AND SUCH FROM NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION FROM  THE WELL TO THE PRODUCTION FACILITY.

Laura: I WONDER IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE HEARD  CONVERSATIONS AROUND WINNERS AND LOSERS WHEN IT COMES TO  HYDROGEN, LIKE MAYBE THERE ARE WINNERS WHO GET TO USE THAT  CLEANER FUEL BUT LOSERS ON THE PRODUCTION END IN TERMS OF  INCREASED NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION OR EMISSIONS OR  HAVE YOU HEARD CONVERSATIONS LIKE THAT AT ALL?

Redfern: YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

THESE SORTS OF EXTERNALITIES THAT ARE INVOLVED, IN  PARTICULAR, WITH NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION HAVE ALL SORTS OF  PEOPLE UP IN THE SAN JUAN BASIN, IN PARTICULAR, VERY  NERVOUS AND UNHAPPY ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF THIS SHOWING UP IN  THEIR BACKYARD.

I MEAN, THE SAN JUAN BASIN HAS  BEEN ECONOMICALLY DEPRESSED FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND I THINK  THAT A LOT OF, SHALL WE SAY, ECONOMICALLY IN THAT NECK OF  THE WOODS WHICH TENDS TOWARD NATURAL GAS PRODUCERS AND  PEOPLE AFFILIATED WITH THOSE THINGS, THEY ARE EXCITED ABOUT  THE POSSIBILITY OF RESTARTING THE WHOLE NATURAL GAS INDUSTRY  UP THERE AND GETTING IT CHUGGING ONCE AGAIN, BUT THE  PROBLEM IS, IF YOU DRIVE AROUND UP THERE, YOU SEE  QUICKLY YOU HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE LIVING AMID AN AWFUL  LOT OF NATURAL GAS WELLS AND THOSE NATURAL GAS WELLS HAVE A  LONG HISTORY AND DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF LEAKING AND THAT  CREATES GLOBAL CLIMATE ISSUES, BUT IT ALSO CREATES HEALTH  ISSUES FOR PEOPLE THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE RIGHT THERE ON THE  GROUND AND THOSE PEOPLE THAT LIVE ON THE GROUNDS, THOSE  FRONT LINE COMMUNITIES ARE MANY, MANY OF THEM ARE NOT  EVEN A LITTLE BIT EXCITED ABOUT HAVING THAT START UP  AGAIN IN FORCE.

Laura: THE GOVERNORS  HYDROGEN HUB DEVELOPMENT ACT, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT BILL  WAS AND WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN WITH THAT LAST WEEK?

Redfern: WE SHOULD SAY WAS WITH AN ASTERISK AND I AM  TAKING THAT SORT OF BACKWARDLY.

IT WAS UP FOR DEBATE IN HOUSE SESSION, WHICH WHERE IS THESE  THINGS NORMALLY START AND AFTER MERELY FOUR HOURS OF  BACK AND FORTH TALK ABOUT IT, WHICH WAS KIND OF INTERESTING,  I'LL GET BACK TO THAT IN A SECOND, LEGISLATORS DIDN'T  ACTUALLY KILL IT OUTRIGHT, THEY TABLED IT, WHICH DOES  ALLOW THE POSSIBILITY IT COULD BE REWRITTEN, REJIGGERED OR  BROUGHT BACK UP FOR DEBATE DOWN THE LINE, BUT SINCE WE  HAVE THIS VERY COMPRESSED SESSION DEVOTED TO MONETARY  ISSUES, THAT LOOKS PROBABLY UNLIKELY, SO, PUT THAT TO THE  SIDE FOR NOW.

IT IS PROBABLY DEAD BUT WE  DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL COME BACK LIKE SOME SORT OF  HYDROGEN ZOMBIE.

THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.