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Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor will be stepping down from that post soon.

We'll talk to her this week on the state of Ohio.

Welcome to the state of Ohio.

I'm Joe Ingles sitting in for Karen Kasler.

Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor has played key roles in state government since 1999.

First, she was lieutenant governor for former Ohio Governor Bob Taft.

Then in 2002, O'Connor was elected to the Ohio Supreme Court.

She was elected twice more as chief justice in 2010 and then 2016.

She's stepping down at the end of this year because she's 71.

And Ohio's constitution says judicial candidates are not allowed to run after turning 70.

During her tenure on the court, O'Connor has worked to improve fairness through bail reform efforts and increase the role of specialized dockets to deal with Ohio's opioid crisis.

O'Connor has seen a lot during her past 20 years in elected office.

I recently sat down with her to discuss her career in elected statewide office.

You broke ground as the first female Supreme Court Chief Justice and the longest serving elected woman in Ohio history.

Tell me about your experience and being a pioneer.

Well, let me first start by saying that, you know, I've been extremely lucky, blessed, you know, to have these positions that I've had in my career.

And I know that that that does not escape me.

Being the first woman to hold this position in, you know, 200 and I think it was 217 years when I got elected to it in 2010 is it's an honor.

It's a responsibility in so many ways to be a responsibility, one just the territory of the job.

You know, what comes with the constitutional description of the job and duties and, you know, just the running of the operation.

You know, obviously, I'm just one of seven votes when it comes to the cases.

But the administrative role here is so important and it is not lost on me that even though I've been doing this job for 12 years as chief justice and right now and for the longest time, I don't think about, oh, I'm the first woman Chief Justice until I realize the impact it has on other people.

And that is part of the responsibility that I feel in this job to demonstrate that the job can be done.

You know, not only well, but extremely well by a woman.

I look back at my time when I was prosecuting attorney in Summit County for four years, and I look at the staff that I hired, the assistant prosecutors back then, and I look at how many of them are now judges in some county and you know, and that progress their path.

I know many of them.

I have all of them, you know, or, you know, our boss, look where she is.

And that was an inspiration.

They've told me that's an inspiration to them.

And that's what allowed them to think they could do, too.

And they did.

And they were you know, there's still a lot of that on the court.

And, you know, I'm proud of that.

I'm proud of the fact that so many women that worked for me as assistant prosecutors ended up being common pleas, court judges.

What do you consider your greatest accomplishment?

Oh, you know what?

I don't I don't think in terms of what's what's the greatest thing or, you know, because there's there's a lot of initiatives.

And I want to first start off by saying that I have not done anything by myself.

You know, if I have an idea, you know, I am always coming up with ideas, you know, but, you know, some pan out, some don't.

But it's the staff.

If I didn't have the staff to bring those ideas to reality and I didn't have the competent staff that I have more than competent, you know, the staff at the Supreme Court, you know, in every division.

I'm so lucky the citizens of Ohio are so lucky.

So let me say, I didn't come, you know, accomplish anything by myself.

And I was able to do a lot of the things that we got done because of the expertize and professionalism of our staff, because I coalesced, you know, groups to ask them to examine, you know, this policy, this topic, whatever.

Tell me what you think.

Give me your input.

You know, I did that routinely through task forces and, you know, commissions and committees.

And that's a great way to do it, because they issue a report.

And then that report has recommendations.

And some of those recommendations are forward legislation, some of them are for rule changes in the court.

Some of them, you know, are just, you know, advocate advocating for, you know, this or that or the other thing.

So that to me is a formula that has worked.

And I've used it, you know, continuously since I was have been chief justice.

You took a lot of heat over redistricting and the decision that was made by the court.

What was that like on your end?

And is there something that you wish you would have done differently that you didn't do back when it was happening?

Well, actually, there were five decisions by the majority of the court declaring the maps to be unconstitutional, the maps that were approved by the redistricting commission.

And, you know, we followed the Constitution, and I have no regrets about that.

There's nothing I would have done differently in the analysis or the opinions that came out about it.

I am troubled by the intervention of the federal court in this state issue, and that was the, you know, declaration early on that you're going to have X amount of days, a redistricting commission to come up with a constitutional plan.

And if you don't, we're going to use the uncounted, unusual third map that you you know, and it's is it was kind of ridiculous.

It's like having a fight between two kids and, you know, you've got an eight year old and a six year old and you say to both of them, you better settle this or the eight year old's going to win.

You know, I mean.

Well, you know, that's exactly what it was.

So there was no incentive for them to come up with anything better than the third map, for gosh sakes.

But they did the fourth map on the fifth map, and it was, you know, a variation to the third map.

So that was that was very disconcerting, you know, to see that.

And I have heard, you know, from other, you know, federal judges that I mean, that was that was a they can't really see the basis for why the intervention was done.

But nonetheless, it was done, you know, and the by the state, you know, through, I guess, the attorney general has taken the matter to the United States Supreme Court.

So they're going to, you know, challenge it now in the United States Supreme Court.

I don't know whether the court's going to take it.

I kind of doubt it is going to.

But, you know, that allowed them to then kind of like extend, you know, what was happening in the case.

In the meanwhile, the third map is used and it was used for, you know, November's election.

Ohio has seen a lot of shifts over the past couple of decades politically.

How has that influenced you?

How has that caused you to work differently at the courts or make changes at the court level?

Politics should have no place in the courts, whether it's a municipal court or the Supreme Court at all, and every court in between.

If you're a judge, do not bring your politics to the bench.

Don't bring your religion to the bench.

Don't bring any of that stuff because you have to be a neutral.

And politics is one of the worst things that can infiltrate how a judge does their job.

You know, if you worry about, oh, what's the political ramifications here?

And why why is that all the you know, the £600 gorilla?

It's because judges stand for election and judges stand for partizan primaries and then nonpartizan allegedly, except now if you're in the Supreme Court or of your appellate court, you're going to have your party designation on the ballot.

You know, according to the I mean, that's the legislature at work.

So I think that complicates things.

But people, you know, judges have to stand for election and people say, oh, you got to stand for election.

You've got to get the, you know, the support of your party.

So you're going to make political decisions.

And that's not so much in the lower courts, the trial courts, you know, that infiltration I don't see that there or the appellate courts.

But people always expect the pressure is going to be on the Supreme Court to bring their politics to the bench.

And never would I do that.

Absolutely never.

And I've obviously demonstrated that because I'm a registered Republican and used to be touted by the Republican Party as, you know, somebody that, you know, they should they should, you know, speak about and use as an example, etc.. Now, I understand they've taken my picture down in some headquarters, including the state headquarters and others.

They've turned it to the wall, you know.

Does that it might hurt?

Am I bothered?

You know?

No.

I've got to say that that is that's petty.

And it reflects more on them than certainly what it does on me.

And I also look at at the approval of of what we did in redistricting, the letters that I have gotten from the public people I don't know people that say I've never written, you know, to a public official before, but I feel compelled to say, keep up the good work.

You know, we we appreciate what you're doing for the state, for democracy.

You know, that that is that affects me because that lets me know that, you know, it makes me feel good that people appreciate what we do and they notice, I guess that's, you know, and certainly that's a positive effect as opposed to, you know, turning my picture to the wall.

Just, you know, that's crazy.

That's crazy.

You know, just like the what they were talking about for impeachment, you know, some legislators were, you know, going to file impeachment articles of impeachment.

Are you kidding me?

Because of a vote and you're going to target me?

Well, I had three other votes.

You want to you know, you want to impeach the three others that were in the majority.

And is this going to be the standard?

Now, if we don't like what the Supreme Court does, we're going to threaten to impeach.

Wow.

We don't live in a dictatorship.

You know, we we we that is just I guess they don't understand the Constitution.

Maybe they ought to go back to fourth grade.

But anyway, so no politics and the repercussions of politics have never, you know, bothered me or, you know, been, you know, been a motivator.

Yeah.

There's a resolution right now in the Ohio legislature that would increase the passage threshold for a citizens initiative to 60%.

I know you generally don't like to comment on legislation itself, but that kind of impacts one of the avenues still available to citizens.

Do you see that as a as a problem?

I do see it as a problem.

The latest version of that legislation is that they're going to require the 60% passage rate for initiatives initiated by the legislature as well.

So, you know, it was kind of like, okay, we'll bite the bullet.

We'll do a 60% as well.

And it's to amend the Constitution.

Okay.

We just had two constitutional amendments on the ballot in this last election, issues that amended the Constitution.

And where did they come from?

They came from the legislature, not citizen initiated.

They were ridiculous fluff pieces.

You know, judges have to consider community safety when they set bail.

I mean, that was that was actually, you know, a scare tactic.

You know, we live in such a dangerous community and world and state and we better, you know, pass this so you're going to be safer.

You know, I explained how the bail system works and what they did, you know, is no part of that reality.

But, you know, I mean, that's initiated by the by the legislature for a political ploy to get people to come to the ballot and vote.

Okay.

That's that's.

And while you're at it, here's a list of Republicans, you know, you ought to vote for.

And so to have a 60% rate of passage for these initiatives is, I believe, an effort to thwart what they see coming.

And I think what they see coming is the issue like after.

DOBBS The redistricting commission changes constitutional amendments to change how these redistricting the makeup of the redistricting.

Let's let's get politicians out of it and let's have people that are not elected officials like they do in Michigan and California and other states, get the political people who are benefiting from the decision out of the decision making.

And that, you know, that's just common sense.

Everybody understands conflict, a conflict of interest.

And, you know, that's so again, I think this is an effort to thwart citizen initiatives that they see coming.

Now, do you think the age limit that is kind of forcing you to sit on the sidelines now?

Do you think that that should be abolished?

And what will you do anything to try to affect that in the future?

No, you know, it was on the ballot a couple of years ago, and the public spoke and said, now we don't want to increase to 75.

That was what their option was.

Now, Pennsylvania did a little smarter.

They put it on the ballot and they said it should judges retire at 75.

And they said, yeah, well, the the limit was 70.

So now it's up to 75.

The wording was just whoever did the wording 2 hours wasn't very clever.

But anyway, do I think that we should have age limits?

You know, it's different all around the country and you know, my friend in Vermont, Chief Justice Reiber, he will have to leave the bench at 90.

And then, you know, my friend in Nebraska, Mike, have again, chief justice have again, there is no age limit.

And so it runs like.

And then I have other, you know, chief justice friends that when they turn 70, you know, they turn into the plunking.

They they, you know, they have to leave they're done with their job at 70 drop dead date is your birthday.

Well, I shouldn't say drop.

Did they put the date that you must leave.

Your job is 70 so it's different.

All around the country is 70.

It sounds ridiculous because the statewide have no age limit.

The legislature has no age limit.

But it's a constitutional amendment.

You know, that's what it would take to change it.

So let's you know, we're going to work with the system we have and let's put our efforts towards things that I think are more important.

And, you know, their efforts, you know, that I that I mentioned that I think are important to focus on if we're going to do anything constitutionally.

You know, I'm excited about retirement because I don't I'm retiring from this job.

You know, I'm leaving this job, but I'm not leaving, you know, being active and, you know, and don't ask me what I'm going to do because I don't know.

And I tell people that, you know, I know what, I'm going to take four months and just try and see what life is like as a private citizen and not having, you know, all the pressures that I have in this job, not having, you know, the I don't know how many decisions I make a day, you know, but I'm not going to have that.

It's going to be a full stop, you know.

And on this side, I'm, you know, crazy busy, you know, come January 1st, 2023, the phone is not going to be ringing.

You know, I'm not going to be getting texts and emails and, you know, inundated with all these, you know, we need this decision, whatever it is, we're not going to have that.

Will that be?

It'll be a change, absolutely.

But, you know, as I tell more than one time, you know, my remarks, the Italians have a phrase for it.

It's a little funny anti it's the sweetness of doing nothing.

And I want to see what that feels like.

And that's what I'm going to have.

Just going to try to say, see what fits and and then see what and see what else there is out there to do.

I love to travel.

You know, I have hobbies that I have put on the back burner and not gotten to over the years because of, you know, this job and, you know, simple pleasures, like just read, sit down and reading a novel and not worried about, oh, my gosh, I got to do, you know, this opinion.

I got to do this case.

I've got to get my calendar ready.

You know, those are constant pressures.

There's constant tasks that then require my attention and there's too little time.

And so that creates the pressure.

And then there's no time to do the things that are recreational that I would do.

And I know that, you know, some psychologist or psychiatrist would say, you know, that's not healthy, but that's been my life.

And now I'm going to look forward to doing things like just sitting down and reading for pleasure and fly fishing, which I love to do, and travel and spending time.

I got six grandchildren.

You know, I've missed a lot of sports events, games and things that they've been involved with because they're just my schedule.

And so now that's going to change.

You know, I'm involved with them now, don't get me wrong, but but I'll be more involved, which will be a pleasure.

And so I've got a lot to look forward to.

And I also, you know, I'm going to, you know, see what a service I can be.

I've got to be of service in some way.

I can't just be self-indulgent for the rest of my life and be a dilettante.

I that's not going to be me, but I don't know what I'm going to do now.

Any great regret?

I think that's something you wish you would have done different now.

You know, I mean, I look at, you know, the responsibilities.

I've hired great people to do great things.

And this court has really I think in the last 12 years, I've been managed extremely well.

You know, I have a national profile for doing, you know, really good work with good people.

So I don't think I could ask for more.

You know, my staff likes me, you know, that's a good thing.

You know, they respect me and I respect them.

I've made, you know, friendships with people working here.

Not only employees, but, you know, friendships and and certainly I care about everybody, everybody.

And I know so much about the staff and what's going on in their lives.

And I make that, you know, I make that a, you know, intentional and, you know, so I know no regrets.

There is.

I do.

I regret leaving.

I'm going to miss it.

You know, I'd be lying if I said I'm not.

You know, I'm going to miss I'm going to not miss everything about the job, but I'm going to miss it.

But I'm also you know, I'm a person with a lot of curiosity, you know, what's around the corner that's always been kind of my motivator.

If you notice, you know, I went from being a judge, common pleas court judge just got elected with, you know, over 70 or about 70%.

I retired from that to become the county prosecutor because I felt that there was a need, you know, to to do that.

And then I left there to become a lieutenant governor.

Again, there's this progression of great jobs that I've had.

And a lot a lot of it is motivated by my curiosity.

Okay, what's that about?

What can I do?

You know, it's just the way that I'm wired.

I guess.

So I'm curious about the future.

What's that going to bring?

You know, one of the things I you know, I should say, you know, I know we're getting to the end here that I am going to be the first retired chief justice since we've elected chief justices in in the 1912 Constitution.

This job was provided for designated chief justice.

You know, it's voted for statewide.

And I was the 10th.

And obviously there were nine men that went before me.

And they either left office because they were defeated at the polls or they died in office.

So I am the first one who obviously will not be defeated because I you know, I'm not standing for election and I've been elected to this position, thankfully.

And all I have to do is stay alive till midnight on the 31st of December.

And I'll have broken that record as I'll be leaving, you know, leaving healthy and, you know, alive.

Yeah, well, we certainly hope that happens.

But thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me today.

And that's it for us this week for my colleagues at the Statehouse News Bureau of Ohio Public Radio and Television.

Thanks for watching.

Please check us out at state news dot org.

You can follow this show.

Karen Kasler, Andy Chow and me on Facebook and Twitter.

Be sure to join us again next time for the state of Ohio.

Support for the statewide broadcast of the state of Ohio comes from Medical Mutual, providing more than 1.4 million Ohioans.

Peace of mind with a selection of health insurance plans online at med mutual dot com slash Ohio by the law offices of Porter Wright, Morris and Arthur LLP now with eight locations across the country, Porter Wright is a legal partner with a new perspective to the business community.

More at Porter Wright dot com and from the Ohio Education Association representing 124,000 members who work to inspire their students to think creatively and experience the joy of learning online at OAG Georg.