Support for the statewide broadcast of the state of Ohio comes from medical mutuel, providing more than 1.4 million Ohioans peace of mind with a selection of health insurance plans online at med mutual dot com slash Ohio by the law offices of Porter Wright, Morris and Arthur LLP.

Now with eight locations across the country, Porter Wright is a legal partner with a new perspective to the business community.

More at Porter Wright dot com and from the Ohio Education Association representing 124,000 members who work to inspire their students to think creatively and experience the joy of learning online.

At OAG Georg a governor, Mike DeWine, urges counties to pump more reporting into the databases used for background checks.

But does he support the expanded use of those databases for gun sales?

Early voting is underway for an August primary.

We talked to Secretary of State Frank Leros about the challenges for the rare summer statewide election.

It's all this week on the state of Ohio.

Welcome to the state of Ohio.

I'm Andy Chao, sitting in for Karen Kasler.

The state is urging law enforcement agencies and courts to use a new digital reporting tool to enter information such as warrants and protection orders into state and national criminal database.

Keys.

Now, these databases are used to run background checks on gun sales and law enforcement officers check the database during traffic stops to learn, if possible, outstanding warrants Republican Governor Mike DeWine said the new tool, which is being offered for free to all reporting agencies, is meant to streamline the process of entering vital information into the system.

This is a matter, in some cases, of life and death when we're talking about databases that are in the criminal justice system.

The fact is that databases obviously are only as good as the information that is put in.

How accurate that information is and whether or not the information is put in at all.

Some counties still use a paper process to file information into the two databases.

This is the law enforcement automated data system.

And the National Crime Information Center.

DeWine said although the databases are important tools, state law does not require agencies to report warns and safety protection orders into these systems.

DeWine is pushing for a bill that mandates these reports.

DeWine emphasized several times that the database is an important tool during traffic stops and gun sales, but a background check is not required for all gun sales in 2019 after the mass shooting in Dayton.

DeWine proposed the creation of a new system that could increase the use of background checks for private gun sales.

But when pressed on the issue this week, DeWine would not say if he still supports such an expansion.

Governor, you mentioned how important information in this database is that not every gun purchase is required to go through the background check process.

Would you like to see a law that expands background checks so every gun purchase requires.

Look at this.

I think you better talk to the legislature on that.

I don't think that the folks in the legislature would do that.

But if it's if it's so important, would you call on the legislature to do something like that way?

Well, calling on the legislature doesn't get it done.

So look, I introduced a budget that you wouldn't introduce anything calling on the legislature.

Well, the what we have tried to focus on is what we can control.

And what we control is is making sure that the information is going in is accurate and good and good information.

That's that's what we can do.

That's what I can control is, as the Governor DeWine did say, he continues to support his proposal to create a system for extreme risk protection orders, which would allow judges to take guns away from people who are deemed to be a threat to themselves or others.

Where would you like to see Ohio expand the use of safety protection orders?

And in doing so, it seems like this new warrant system would be ready for the filing of those.

Well, we have we have proposed a system that is not a red flag system because it's different.

It has a lot more due process.

Nothing can happen until there's been, you know, adjudicated in front of a in front of a judge.

So I it is a that is our proposal.

That is what we think the legislature should pass Again, this shouldn't be very, very controversial.

The passing of this and I want to say this about any kind of legislative proposal.

I think sometimes we make a mistake and we say, well, with this piece of legislation or this proposal, would it make with a certain tragedy that just occurred, would it have occurred if that had been on the books?

And the answer is that's really not the question.

The question is, will will it make a difference?

And I think that the vast majority of Ohioans would agree that information about someone that is relevant to whether or not they're a danger to themselves and whether they are a danger to the public is relevant to whether or not they can walk in and buy a gun.

That's kind of a basic simple principle that I would bet.

Well, I won't put a number on it, but the vast majority of Ohioans would agree, and particularly when you tell them that there would be due process connected with that.

So, again, this is some of the things that I would refer to as unfinished business.

And I would hope that the legislature would would take another look at that that proposal.

Ohioans around the state can now cast their vote in a very rare summer time statewide primary election.

Early voting is now open for the August 2nd election.

The primaries for state legislative races were pushed to August 2nd because of the inability among the state's top leaders to draw new Ohio House and Ohio's Senate district maps.

The May 3rd primary included primaries for statewide congressional and local races, but without state legislative district maps, those races for the House and Senate had to be delayed.

The state is now using maps that were implemented by a federal court ruled unconstitutional by the state Supreme Court.

I talked to Republican Secretary of State Frank Leros about the rare primary and what the state is doing to overcome the challenges.

We're trying to get the word out to make sure Ohioans know that they have the same three opportunities to participate that they're accustomed to.

Right.

And I get it.

It's this election's going to occur on August 2nd.

People are thinking about wrapping up their family vacations, getting the kids back to school.

There's a lot of other things going on in your life.

The first week of August, but really no good reason not to.

So we're trying to remind people.

30 days before the election was the voter registration deadline and then comes early voting, which, of course, begins today.

That goes for the next four weeks.

That includes evening and weekend hours.

You can vote absentee you can vote in person on Election Day.

So that's a big part of it.

But the other thing that we've been doing is working with our boards of elections.

They've had to do a lot of work over the last couple of months.

And really, they've they've had to cram a lot into just a short period of time.

And so just getting ready for all of the things that the boards of elections had to do.

And then we got a curveball from the US Supreme Court last week when they decided that a bunch of candidates who missed the filing deadline were going to be allowed to still put their names on the ballot.

So that introduced a new set of challenges for five of our boards of elections that were in that situation.

And then poll worker recruitment, which by the way, that is always something that we work on every election but we're working extra hard right now to make sure that we have the adequate number of Ohioans that it takes to staff close to 4000 polling locations throughout the state.

So getting poll workers is always a challenge.

But are there any additional unique challenges to having this August statewide primary?

You know, it's just the timing, again, really that August 2nd date is a date that is routinely on the calendar held for special elections.

And so the boards of elections have that that date on their calendar as a date that they would have a special election if they needed to, if the local community decided that they wanted to put a tax levy on or or if there was a vacancy that needed to be filled, August 2nd would be that routine date.

But to have a statewide primary on August 2nd is unusual.

And that's why poll worker recruitment is such a priority.

And think of people being on vacation or whatever other summer logistics they've got going on.

It's it's always a challenge to recruit adequate numbers of poll workers.

But on an August 2nd election, it'll be even more challenging.

By the way, this is why we also have been putting out the call for young Ohioans.

If you're home from from college for the summer, we'd love to have you they pay you to be a poll worker.

You'll get a great education in how the process works.

You really learn how secure Ohio's elections are.

Any even 17 year old high school students, if you're a high school senior, if you're great, if you finish your junior year and you're about to start your senior year, you can sign up to be a poll worker at vote Ohio dot gov.

You'll get paid and great thing to have on a college application as well that you served as an election official in your hometown.

So in August you have people who are out of school maybe on summer vacation Do you expect to see any typical early voting patterns change because of the summertime election?

We've seen this sort of evolving over the last two decades.

Remember, Ohio's had absentee voting and early voting for close to 20 years now.

Really in 20, 20.

A lot of people tried early voting and absentee voting for the first time as a result of the pandemic and realized how secure and convenient it is.

I anticipate that those trends will continue again, especially right now as people are traveling around Election Day or whatever else.

And, you know, another great incentive for voting absentee is that you're allowed to cheat on the test.

Let's be honest, I think all of us, even as involved as you and I are, we've gotten our ballot before and we're like, gosh, I can't remember which candidate it was that I wanted to vote for.

Well, when you're in the voting booth, you kind of have to have your mind made up.

But when you're voting from your own kitchen table at home or maybe maybe from, you know, from on the road, you can do it flip open your laptop, you can research the candidates, just take a minute or two to cast a really informed ballot.

So that's another good reason to vote absentee.

So this August primary is especially unique because it was delayed from a May 3rd primary where state legislative races were expected to be on the ballot.

But because of redistricting, those races had to be taken off the ballot.

How do you explain how the state got to this point where it needed a statewide primary election in August?

So we got to this place as a result of massive amounts of litigation surrounding redistricting.

And I understand that there's a difference of opinion between us on the majority and the redistricting commission in the Supreme Court.

I think that the court has gotten this one badly wrong.

But again, I have the freedom to think that they have the authority as the court to decide whether they think these maps are constitutional or not.

The fact about redistricting is it is an inherently political process.

It always has been one side is going to like the result more than another side is going to.

There is no perfect way to do redistricting.

I've I've actually done a 50 state sort of study of this because I worked on how we reformed the process last decade.

And what I learned is that there's no perfect way to do it.

Every state has a slightly different way of going about it.

In states where Republicans have the majority, you tend to see maps that benefit Republicans.

In states where Democrats have the majority, you tend to see maps that benefit Democrats.

Really finding that middle ground compromise solution was what I wanted to see that proved, you know, to elude us this time.

I mean, I was a little bit frustrated by by both my Republican and my Democratic colleagues at times, by the unwillingness to come together and find those middle grounds.

But again, that's where we are because of a federal Three-Judge panel.

The the three judges, a majority of this panel ruled that the election would occur on August 2nd and that it would utilize the third set of maps.

And so this August 2nd election is underway.

In fact, it's already been underway for almost two weeks now with overseas and military voting having been well underway for a while.

And if people are looking for where is my district, what district do I live in, we created a very simple, easy to use tool of the Ohio Secretary of state website vote Ohio dot gov.

And this is specifically vote Ohio dot gov slash district.

And you can type in your address, zoom in on the map, see which congressional state legislative district you live in.

It's a it's a just a convenient way for people to figure that out.

And it's interesting to note that these maps are only going to be in place for this two year cycle by the time 20, 24 comes around there will be a perhaps a different composition.

We'll certainly there will be a different composition on the Ohio Supreme Court, and there could be a different composition on the Ohio Redistricting Commission as well.

So some point early next year, I anticipate the redistricting commission will get to work again, drawing new maps for 20, 24.

The additional primary is expected to cost the state between 20 and $25 million.

The US Supreme Court has decided to hear oral arguments over a redistricting case in North Carolina.

In that case, attorneys have argued what has been called a fringe legal concept called the independent state legislature theory.

This argument suggests that the US Constitution's elections clause gives state legislatures the power to make decisions in regards to the congressional and presidential elections without any oversight from state constitutions or state courts.

Statehouse News Bureau Chief Karen Kasler talked about the upcoming case with Suzanne Almeda, redistricting council for Common Cause.

So this case more versus Harper.

The US Supreme Court has decided it will hear it in its next term.

What do you think the impact's going to be?

What why is this a big case?

Yes.

Thanks so much for the question.

I think that this is going to be a big case because it has the potential to fundamentally reimagine reconfigure the way our state legislatures and state courts interact in the context of federal elections.

I want to be very clear that this is not everything.

It's federal elections only.

But, you know, essentially the argument that's being put forth by the North Carolina legislature is that state supreme courts just don't have jurisdiction over federal election policy.

Right.

So that could mean things like not being able to implement maps, which matters a little less to Ohio, because you have a specific language in your Constitution that already pulls the Ohio Supreme Court out of that process.

But it could also, because it's about the implementation of the Constitution, could mean that some of those other protections that are so important to making sure Ohio's maps, for example, are better.

Right.

Are constitutional, might not exist anymore.

So the things like representational fairness or the city splits, right.

Or municipal split, sorry, not city, all of that is up for grabs depending on how this case comes down.

And it's interesting for Ohio, the timing of this potentially in that we still do not have a constitutional congressional map.

And so the timing of the ruling of this case could be very important.

Absolutely.

So the case will be argued in the fall.

It's going to be a big fall for voting rights.

Right.

We also have the Alabama VRA case coming up.

And then we're likely they issue decisions in a couple of times a year, is likely to be next June.

And will absolutely have an impact on kind of the rest of the process in Ohio.

And as you mentioned in the beginning, the states that this is coming up in our states where there is a tension between the state Supreme Court and the legislature, and Ohio is one of those states.

North Carolina is one of those states.

Pennsylvania is one of those states.

Right.

But it's coming up in places where the courts and the legislature are not on the same page, particularly as it comes to voting rights or redistricting.

And the big thing and this is what's called the independent state legislatures theory.

Tell me about that.

Yeah.

So that is a theory that is first, it's not based in reality.

Right.

It is.

It's an interpretation of the elections clause and possibly the electors clause of the U.S. Constitution, which meant very simplification here.

Essentially says that state legislatures have exclusive authority over the times, places and manners of elections is subject to some congressional oversight.

Right.

U.S. Congress oversight.

And so the theory that has been put forth, but is not supported by precedents, is not supported by history, is not really supported by you know, reality is that the state legislatures should have this exclusive jurisdiction.

They should not be constrained by state courts.

And certainly not by state constitutions when it comes to federal elections, which is why this is so serious.

Right.

It's both a little bit of a made up thing, but also a very concerning threat now that it's in front of the Supreme Court of the United States.

Now, Ohio has two constitutional amendments, one dealing with Congress, one dealing with the state legislature, the maps that create those districts.

Is there any thought that whatever the court rules and this could potentially apply to legislative maps, not just in federal elections, but also state elections?

So it's hard to tell, right?

I think that this case specifically is talking about state legislatures power, all where congressional elections, federal elections are always set in a different bucket.

Right.

Under the U.S. Constitution.

But there are real practical implications for outside of redistricting, particularly.

Right.

How our elections are run.

Ohio was one of those states during COVID where this court stepped in to make some really necessary changes so that people could vote right And so that could be one of those places where, say, the court would be stopped from making those changes in federal elections, which means that we're not going to have two separate Senate elections.

Right.

That's going to impact all voters in all elections.

Finally, back on the timing issue.

Again, this ruling would come down in the summer of 20, 23 as obviously we're gearing up for the presidential election of 2024.

The impact of this could be huge depending on what the ruling is.

Absolutely.

This is one of those cases that depending on what the ruling is, is going to fundamentally reshape a lot of how courts deal with elections.

And that's the strategy, right.

That's what we've seen every time this has been brought up we saw it in concurrence in BuzzFeed, Gore we saw it in the cases in 2020 from Pennsylvania over the election law.

We saw it now in the redistricting context, including in Ohio being part of the conversation.

So it's it's a strategy to change the ability of state courts to kind of be that backstop against state legislatures trying to restrict the right to vote in Ohio.

I know there's a lot of frustration among people who voted for those two constitutional amendments saying they wanted that in the Constitution.

This should have been an easier process and now potentially this could disrupt that whole constitutional amendment situation for both the congressional maps and the legislative maps.

Yes, absolutely.

And I think that's one of the reasons why this is so important to push back.

Right.

Why Common Cause has been dedicated to fighting this kind of a theory or this legal concept since its inception because it takes away the voice of the people.

As the US Supreme Court prepares to hear arguments in that case.

Ohio is currently in the middle of its own redistricting saga.

I talked to Donald Bry, the attorney who represented a group of Republican voters in asking the federal court to intervene and implement new state legislative district maps.

We talk about how the case could impact Ohio's ongoing court battles over district maps.

We just talked to Common Cause, who questioned the legitimacy of this argument, the legitimacy of the independent state legislature theory.

What are your thoughts on the legitimacy, your knowledge intimacy of that argument?

Well, I, I think that there a good faith argument that that it's true, but there's also good faith arguments that it's not hard to put it differently.

I don't know where the votes are going to come up.

Let me give you an example.

In 20, 15, the United States Supreme Court decided a case closed vote a 54 vote in which they said that the legislative body, the legislature, for purposes of Article one, Section four, can also include entities like well, like the Ohio Redistricting Commission, although it didn't exist at the time, similar commissions existed in other states and by 54 decision the United States Supreme Court said the legislative function can be performed by a separate body if the state says for purposes of drawing the congressional lines that is the legislature.

There were four dissents.

Now, since then, three of the nine members of the court have retired.

And right now of the folks in that decision, three members of the majority are still in the court.

Three members of the minority are still in the court.

And three others haven't weighed in on the issue, as the minority in that case strongly argued that legislature only means the body of folks that are elected to pass laws in the state as a general rule.

I don't think that there's a real danger that that case will be overturned, but I think there may be a greater likelihood that it will be construed to be limited to entities like the Ohio Redistricting Commission that expressly have a legislative function and to exclude entities like courts from the drafting of of the the lines for Congress.

And by the way, just to interject.

This is only about congressional.

It is not about state legislature at all.

And secondly, in Ohio, unlike North Carolina, in some other case, there is expressly in Ohio's Constitution a prohibition against the Ohio Supreme Court or any other court drafting a congressional lot.

So the limitation, if the United States Supreme Court finds that there is a limitation of courts in state courts imposing based upon state law, congressional lines is not one that would affect Ohio, because we already have that our own constitution.

You're one of the go to attorneys here in Ohio when it comes to elections issues.

You've been following all sorts of elections, laws and elections arguments for a long time here.

How could this case impact what you do here and what a lot of people do here when it comes to election laws in Ohio?

I really don't think it's going to affect Ohio that much.

I mean, it's theoretically and I think this is unlikely but possible that they'll say that the state's courts can't rely upon federal law to to strike down congressional districts.

That's possible.

And there is a good faith argument for that.

I don't really see that as the question that was posed and presented to the U.S. Supreme Court for consideration.

Any more than I seriously they did not in their search or our briefs, say we want you to overturn that 2015 case I just talked about saying you can have independent or separate redistricting commissions.

So since we already have an Ohio Constitution provision that takes care of the key wrong that is alleged to be wrong by the petitioners in more of the Harper case.

In other words, courts in Ohio are not going to draft legislative districts.

If the U.S. Supreme Court says courts in any state can't draft legislative districts, that can affect us.

So we already have, obviously, congressional districts, at least for the next four years.

And like you said, it kind of depends on what the ruling would be and what the scope of that would be, because the Ohio Supreme Court has ruled on the congressional districts that were drawn.

But like you said, it does not have the authority to draw the maps.

So if the U.S. Supreme Court were to come down and make its scope a little larger, I mean, under this independent state legislature theory, could it not allow the state Supreme Court to make any decisions when it comes to elections issues, federal elections issues?

Well, it might limit the state's Supreme Court's ability to to base it on state law or state constitutions because there is in Article one, Section four, expressly the authority of Congress to to to limit what state legislatures can do about it.

It you know, the argument is that the independent state legislature there you look at, for example, ratification of constitutional amendments in Article five that has no judicial input, never has.

You look at Article two, Section one, which is each state legislature shall, in a manner they choose, one of the number of electors for the presidential college.

And we saw, you know, Bush, because we forget it was discovered in equal protection grounds.

But there was a concurring opinion only by three of the nine members that said that based upon older cases, there's a plenary or in other words, unlimited authority as the legislature to decide how the electors are going to be chosen.

That wasn't the basis of the Bush V four case, which, of course, was the case that decided between George Bush and Al Gore as to who got to be president, and that it was, in fact, a in 2000 or 2000.

But it was, in fact, discussed.

And so it's a live issue, at least among some of the members as well.

Only one of the members of those that concurring opinion is still on the court.

But I think there they have been replaced by the members that share those views.

That's it for this week for my colleagues at the Statehouse News Bureau.

Thanks for watching.

Please check us out at State News dot org and you can follow the show.

Karen Kasler.

Joe Ingles and myself on Facebook and Twitter.

And be sure to join us next time for the state of Ohio.

Support for the statewide broadcast of the state of Ohio comes from medical mutuel, providing more than 1.4 million Ohioans peace of mind with a selection of health insurance plans online at med mutual dot com slash Ohio by the law offices of Porter right Morris and Arthur LLP.

Now with eight locations across the country, Porter Wright is a legal partner with a new perspective to the business community.

More at Porter right dot com and from the Ohio Education Association representing 124,000 members who work to inspire their students to think creatively and experience the joy of learning online at OGA dawg.